| Revision as of 20:57, 23 February 2007 editHipal (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers137,994 edits →Please provide diff that I claimed you were Barrett: please apologise first and refactor← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 11:16, 23 June 2022 edit undoWOSlinkerBot (talk | contribs)Bots158,343 editsm Fix font tag lint errors | ||
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| |This talk page is '''automatically archived''' by ]. Any sections older than '''7''' days are automatically archived to ''']'''. Sections without timestamps are not archived. | |||
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| == |
==Block== | ||
| Ilena, I warned you before about using Misplaced Pages as a platform for your personal campaigns. I see you today created an attack page devoted to outing another editor you're in dispute with in real life, assuming your identification is accurate. I've therefore blocked this account indefinitely. I don't know what the status of your ArbCom case is, and whether you still need to post there. If you do, let me know, and if you think this block is unfair, you're welcome either to post here about it, so long as you don't name people, or e-mail me. Either way, I would need an assurance from you that you'll stop editing in this area and will stop behaving in a way that appears to constitute harassment of other editors. Cheers, ] ] 01:15, 27 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Hey Ilena, I'm happy to hear that you feel you're figuring things out and that you're happy with the archiving. Please don't hesitate to drop by my talk page if you ever need to a hand with anything. Pura Vida :) ''']''' 14:09, 19 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Advocacy== | |||
| Your work is advocacy. In your work here that is what you have done. That is great on your own website, but inappropriate here. ] 18:42, 19 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ===Request by ] to look at broader picture ... Am I the only "advocate" here?=== | |||
| Some burning questions and explanations of my experience here. | |||
| Barrett has, as recently as January, 2007, edited here himself, despite several comments to the contrary. It has been said that I brought this "conflict" to Misplaced Pages. In fact, I attempted to correct verified false information being posted by Barrett himself (immediately followed by Fyslee and other anonymous posters on various pages) regarding the case he lost to me. I carefully sourced my edits with links to the court decisions. | |||
| Please consider that are probably several of the anonymous editors, with undisclosed large ], who delete criticism and post PRO-Barrett commercial links throughout Misplaced Pages, while keeping their identities hidden. | |||
| Please note the first diff below where Barrett was editing and adding link after link to his commerical sites. He then became invisible and Fyslee '''immediately''' appeared and made sure that his vanity links remained, as well as adding more. Please consider that indeed, this is a role of a ]. | |||
| Despite accusations, I have never denied that I edited before I created my account, nor denied any edit I have made, nor posted anonymously nor attempted to be anything or anyone but who I am: a woman's health activist and advocate. Because I have been open about my identity, I feel I am now being punished and perhaps banned. | |||
| Is Fyslee not an advocate for those he claims are harmed by ] and chiropractors? | |||
| Is Barrett not an advocate for the same, with his vast empire of "anti-quackery" books and lectures and courses and non-profits soliciting donations and people harmed by what he calls ]? | |||
| Please further consider that Barrett's many commerical websites that are linked throughout Misplaced Pages are inappropriate as ]. They are websites self published by Barrett, which sell books for a company, for which he, himself is the "medical editor." . | |||
| Every day, I watch Fyslee and others with a pro-Barrett POV removing links to those they criticize claiming that they are "commercial" or "promotional" while adding link after link after link to Barrett's sites, selling their "anti-quackery" viewpoints. How is this neutral or fair and balanced? Is this really the Wiki way? | |||
| Barrett was described in a losing court decision as being a "zealous advocate" for NCAHF ]. He is given hundreds of links on Misplaced Pages, and I not allowed even one. In my winning Supreme Court decision article ], his editors have not allowed even a comment of who I am. Is this neutral or fair? | |||
| Could the anonymous pro-Barrett editors not be his own family members and team with a decided, but unverifiable ] since they are hiding behind aliases? | |||
| I respectfully request that the fact is carefully considered that Barrett described himself in Time Magazine, "today, I am the ]." Is media not about ] and ]? | |||
| I believe that the Wiki definition fits precisely: Media: | |||
| There are various anonymous ]s on Wiki such as whose only edits were to erase negative links and post PRO-Barrett POV and links. | |||
| A few have posted false and misleading information as to the NCAHF and their suspended status and laws regarding non profit status. The archives clearly show the amount of ''distraction'' and attempts at creating ''reasonable doubt'' about this topic, that they collectively managed to keep off of Misplaced Pages for over 6 months. I do apologize for any uncivil behavior on my part during these heated discussions. You could understand, however, the enormous amount of disinformation I corrected and sourced time after time after time to be told I was "attacking" and it was all POV and not relevant nor notable. For a self named "consumer advocate" and one who scrutinizes and criticizes other non profits to the degree NCAHF, Inc. does, it is certainly a relevant notable fact if they are operating with no state license. Fyslee promised repeatedly to prove their legal status, and instead repeated this serious disinformation as recently as December: | |||
| In fact, NCAHF was suspended in May, 2003 by the State of California. This has been discussed (with this link) for over 6 months. One anonymous editor made several totally false and unverified statements about state licensure. | |||
| He also made this unproven and unprovable claim: . | |||
| I have never seen any evidence that these are true statements and believe them to not be true. I have much experience with non profits. I believe he is deliberately posting misleading and unfactual information. I further now believe, that he is a very close blood relative of Stephen Barrett's, with obvious and glaring serious ] issues. Keeping negative information out of articles about Barrett's operations has been one of his prime purposes on Wiki. | |||
| If so, banning me and allowing him free editing seems unbalanced and unfair. I was blocked once for changing a subject header. He is welcomed and supported and makes jokes at my expense, however, after editing in intentional disinformation. Under this user name, he seems to be practically single purpose, with a huge amount of Barrett and Quackwatch related edits. His edits appear to be to advocate for Barrett and to attempt to keep off any criticism and negative facts about him off of Wiki. | |||
| What if we are correct, and it is indeed Barrett's family member "just passing through" without any scrutiny whatsoever, while commenting frequently about what he claims is my ]? | |||
| I too feel that I was never given a chance on Misplaced Pages. | |||
| From the day (July 7, 2006) I began editing facts and correcting falsities against Barrett himself (unbeknownst to me), Fyslee mmediately proved that ] was not even an option as you can see from my talk page and their prominent immediate warnings and threats. ]. | |||
| I would love to have the opportunity to add to my growing watch list and edit other articles, as I bring a wide and broad experience of many aspects of life that interest me. Please do not judge and ban me without considering the vast amount of pressure and antagonism put on me by Barrett's editors here from the moment I appeared. | |||
| Thank you. | |||
| ::I indeed '''strongly object''' to your block. I believe that evidence will indeed show that it is I being harassed by ... Ronz and Fyslee, collaborating together. Blocking me during this Arb is clearly unfair and unjust. The fact that ... has put up a vanity commercial website for himself and another for his wife is definitely relevant to facts about this Arbitration, very accurately called Barrett Vs Rosenthal. <b>]</b> ] 01:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Godspeed Ilena == | |||
| :::I will look at the state of the case to see whether you still need to post there. Please understand this one point: this is an encyclopedia. It's not a website for you to wage war on regarding events in your personal life. ] ] 01:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Alan, by all means show me diffs of behavior you feel warrants admin attention, but regardless of whether Ilena was responding to provocation elsewhere or not, her own behavior has been unacceptable for some time. That she created an attack page on another editor even as the ArbCom was voting to ban her for similar behavior doesn't exactly inspire confidence. ] ] 02:40, 27 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :You'll be missed, Dematt. --] 17:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::I might suggest reverting the article to last weekend and cleaning up from there. What is legitimate descriptive may need careful, superior editing, also see my to SV.--] 03:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Re:Please provide diff...== | |||
| :I assume this is the deletion in question . In response to Ilena and Alan, if a user's conduct is clearly unacceptable (I am not making any judgement in this case as I have not seen the evidence) then they can still be blocked even with an ongoing ArbCom against them. It has nothing to do with justice or fairness, it has everything to do with protecting the content and integrity of our Misplaced Pages. Again I stress that just because you (and others) think that you are being ''harassed'' does not give you the right or justification to be uncivil, aggressive or even attack back. Cheers ] 12:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Please provide diff that I claimed you were Barrett== | |||
| Many places around Wiki you have claimed that I once "accused" you of being Barrett. I do not know who you are and do not believe you are Barrett. People who hide their identities and attack others may find that their own identities then come into question. I have not been able to find this "accusation." Please either provide the diff | |||
| or retract your accusation. I checked this log where you and others were working diligently to keep off the verified fact of NCAHF's suspension, and it's not there. I await your diff. Thank you. <b><font color="999900">]</font></b> <font color="#999999" size="2">]</font> 16:29, 23 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I've removed your request from my Talk page because I found it uncivil and assuming bad faith given that you deleted without response my request for you to address the very situation from here on your own Talk page. I've been debating with bring it up as evidence in the ArbCom. I'm not sure if it's necessary. I'd much rather put my time into providing evidence to back my ]. --] 17:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Ilena appears to be correct about harassment by Ronz and Fyslee. And for the record, SlimVirgin, let there be no mistake: this IS a website on which many parties -- not least Ilena's detractors -- ''are'' waging war: continuous, relentless, vicious war. You might like to think it is just a cool-headed, facts-only encyclopedia, but the reality behind many articles (and generally behind the scenes) is quite otherwise. Before you jump on Ilena's case you need, and need badly, to investigate the totality of the situation and its context. Much of what she says is merely a ''reaction'' to provocations from elsewhere, and in those cases the problem is with the provacateurs, not her. In other words: ''get your act together'', gal! Cheers! -- ] 02:18, 27 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| <small> Cross-posted from User talk:SlimVirgin </small> | |||
| ::I will take your speedy removal of my valid and honest honest to be an admission that you made up your accusation and it was meant as distraction and attack. Thank you. <b><font color="999900">]</font></b> <font color="#999999" size="2">]</font> 17:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Just popping in to fully support this indefblock. "Outing" is indefblockable, regardless of whatever else was going on - and face it, there was a lot else going on. Ilena has shown no interest in learning about Wikipeida at all - her whole attitude has been "I am here on a mission and anyone who tries to get me to be polite or follow policy is the ENEMY and I will insult and be nasty to them!!!" IMO there has always been almost zero chance she would become a positive contributor, and now she has simplified things for us by yet again ignoring a rule she was warned about - basically pissing in our faces. I'm all done with trying to help her. She doesn't want to be helped. She wants to crusade. One puppy's opinion. ]<sup>]</sup> 17:28, 27 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| :::I'll submit it as Evidence, as well as this exchange about it, to your ArbCom. First I would like an apology from you for assuming bad faith on my part, and that you refactor your talk page above to reflect that. If you don't mind, I'll strike out the thing you said that I think you should refactor, but only after you allow me to do so. --] 17:22, 23 February 2007 (UTC) | |||
| The above-entitled arbitration case has been closed and the final decision published at the above link. {{user|Ilena}} is banned from editing Misplaced Pages for one year and is banned from editing articles and talk pages related to alternative medicine, except talk pages related to breat implants. {{user|Fyslee}} is cautioned to use reliable sources and to edit from a neutral point of view. He is reminded that editors with a known partisan point of view should be careful to seek consensus on the talk page of articles to avoid the appearance of a COI if other editors question their edits. For the arbitration committee, ] 12:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 11:16, 23 June 2022
 Archives |
|---|
Block
Ilena, I warned you before about using Misplaced Pages as a platform for your personal campaigns. I see you today created an attack page devoted to outing another editor you're in dispute with in real life, assuming your identification is accurate. I've therefore blocked this account indefinitely. I don't know what the status of your ArbCom case is, and whether you still need to post there. If you do, let me know, and if you think this block is unfair, you're welcome either to post here about it, so long as you don't name people, or e-mail me. Either way, I would need an assurance from you that you'll stop editing in this area and will stop behaving in a way that appears to constitute harassment of other editors. Cheers, SlimVirgin 01:15, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- I indeed strongly object to your block. I believe that evidence will indeed show that it is I being harassed by ... Ronz and Fyslee, collaborating together. Blocking me during this Arb is clearly unfair and unjust. The fact that ... has put up a vanity commercial website for himself and another for his wife is definitely relevant to facts about this Arbitration, very accurately called Barrett Vs Rosenthal. Ilena (chat) 01:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- I will look at the state of the case to see whether you still need to post there. Please understand this one point: this is an encyclopedia. It's not a website for you to wage war on regarding events in your personal life. SlimVirgin 01:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- Alan, by all means show me diffs of behavior you feel warrants admin attention, but regardless of whether Ilena was responding to provocation elsewhere or not, her own behavior has been unacceptable for some time. That she created an attack page on another editor even as the ArbCom was voting to ban her for similar behavior doesn't exactly inspire confidence. SlimVirgin 02:40, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- I might suggest reverting the article to last weekend and cleaning up from there. What is legitimate descriptive may need careful, superior editing, also see my request to SV.--I'clast 03:14, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- I assume this is the deletion in question . In response to Ilena and Alan, if a user's conduct is clearly unacceptable (I am not making any judgement in this case as I have not seen the evidence) then they can still be blocked even with an ongoing ArbCom against them. It has nothing to do with justice or fairness, it has everything to do with protecting the content and integrity of our Misplaced Pages. Again I stress that just because you (and others) think that you are being harassed does not give you the right or justification to be uncivil, aggressive or even attack back. Cheers Lethaniol 12:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
- Ilena appears to be correct about harassment by Ronz and Fyslee. And for the record, SlimVirgin, let there be no mistake: this IS a website on which many parties -- not least Ilena's detractors -- are waging war: continuous, relentless, vicious war. You might like to think it is just a cool-headed, facts-only encyclopedia, but the reality behind many articles (and generally behind the scenes) is quite otherwise. Before you jump on Ilena's case you need, and need badly, to investigate the totality of the situation and its context. Much of what she says is merely a reaction to provocations from elsewhere, and in those cases the problem is with the provacateurs, not her. In other words: get your act together, gal! Cheers! -- Alan2012 02:18, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Cross-posted from User talk:SlimVirgin
- Just popping in to fully support this indefblock. "Outing" is indefblockable, regardless of whatever else was going on - and face it, there was a lot else going on. Ilena has shown no interest in learning about Wikipeida at all - her whole attitude has been "I am here on a mission and anyone who tries to get me to be polite or follow policy is the ENEMY and I will insult and be nasty to them!!!" IMO there has always been almost zero chance she would become a positive contributor, and now she has simplified things for us by yet again ignoring a rule she was warned about - basically pissing in our faces. I'm all done with trying to help her. She doesn't want to be helped. She wants to crusade. One puppy's opinion. KillerChihuahua 17:28, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Barrett v. Rosenthal
The above-entitled arbitration case has been closed and the final decision published at the above link. Ilena (talk · contribs) is banned from editing Misplaced Pages for one year and is banned from editing articles and talk pages related to alternative medicine, except talk pages related to breat implants. Fyslee (talk · contribs) is cautioned to use reliable sources and to edit from a neutral point of view. He is reminded that editors with a known partisan point of view should be careful to seek consensus on the talk page of articles to avoid the appearance of a COI if other editors question their edits. For the arbitration committee, Thatcher131 12:42, 27 March 2007 (UTC)