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==Welcome!==
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Hello, TheTranarchist, and ''''']'''''! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages you might find helpful:
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a ]! Please ] on ] using four ]s (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, please see our ], and if you can't find what you are looking for there, please feel free to ask me on ] or place '''{{Tlc|Help me}}''' on this page and someone will drop by to help. Again, welcome!<!-- Template:Welcome_cookie --> ] ''Ping me or leave a message on my ]'' 04:25, 25 December 2021 (UTC)


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== Some tips on editing controversial topics ==


== User:YFNS ==
Hello, TheTranarchist, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Tl;dr: thanks for your contributions, but you're making some newbie mistakes in the areas of ] and ] especially, and spending too much time changing the ] of mature, contentious topics. Also, controversial topics are inherently difficult for anyone to edit, and much more so for new editors. Here are some explanations of what I see going on, and how to get back on track. Now for the gory details:


Luckily, no one has it yet. I think you could (and ought to) establish that account as a ] to prevent a ] situation, either with bad or clueless intent. There's no reason you shouldn't have it, and clear reasons you should. If it were me, I would create it and then immediately redirect the user page and Talk page to this account. I believe per VALIDSOCK you are supposed to mention it briefly on your user page somewhere, and then you are good. Good luck, ] (]) 22:55, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
Thanks very much for your contributions attempting to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of trans issues. In particular, thanks for your use of ] to explain your changes; they are invaluable as a method of communicating with other editors, and are something that many new editors only learn later, so kudos for getting on board with this right away, and keep up the good work! Secondly, bravo for responding to another editor at ] to explain in further detail your intentions on improving the article; this is a good example of discussion, which is a core principle of how Misplaced Pages editors collaborate to improve articles.
: Glad you got there first. On a side note: I just found your ] page (nice bunch of articles!) and followed a few links just to see what I would learn. One of the pages (I forget which) then led me to ], and what an interesting story she is! Would make an interesting topic for expansion for you, although at 93k and 184 refs, maybe it's already as mature as it needs to be. Anyway, an interesting read. I should do something like your Works page; I sometimes forget that I've worked on something, and meant to get back to it. I'll add that to my To-do list, which, since it already has aleph null items on it, won't get any longer by adding it. ] (]) 02:52, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks! I'd been meaning to split it from my main user page for a while. Updating it the other day reminded me I spent a few hours collating sources on ] a month or so ago and drafted a section that dissappeared due to a computer crash - gotta try and track them down again.
::And absolutely, I hadn't recognized her until reading the article but when I did I realized we've been in each others peripheries for a while, 1) I think I've seen her speak at one or two marches before, 2) I've got a lot of friends who've been with ], and 3) I've seen her story a few times before. Small world! <small>I often joke: I'm not saying all trans people in NYC know each other, but I'm not ''not'' saying it.</small>
::I wish you all the best in creating one and would love to see it! Though I reckon at ~82k edits figuring out all the main ones will be a tall order lol. ] (]) 18:12, 25 July 2024 (UTC)


== link on your userpage broken ==
I noticed ] to ], which is on my ] (as is pretty much every article you have edited). In my opinion, this edit provided an ] amount of coverage to gender identity conversion in the ] of the article, and did not reflect the preponderance of ] on the topic, which are more about sexual orientation, so I removed it. I explained my reasoning briefly in the edit summary, and in more detail on the Talk page in the same discussion you previously responded to.


Hey, I just noticed the link on your userpage in the sidebar to your top edited pages is broken - should be . Happy editing. ] (]) 23:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
As you are a brand new here and I enjoy helping new editors get on board with the maze of rules and other things to learn here, I checked your contributions and looked at your ] to ], and found I had to undo it for reasons explained in the summary. I haven't looked at your other contributions. Two edits isn't enough information to see a pattern, but both edits seemed to me to express a ] based on a desire for fairness and equality towards trans people, issues, or visibility, possibly with a desire to ]. While highly laudable in the RW, ], and for better or worse, is not about fairness, equality, or righting wrongs, but rather is about adding encyclopedic content to notable topics by summarizing the majority (and significant minority) opinion of what ] have to say about a topic. Sometimes this might not accord with the way we view things, or the way we wish things were, but our job as editors here is to reflect what the reliable sources say, and ignore or own opinions and biases.


== Was your removal of my SOC links at ] an edit-conflict accident? ==
You seem to already understand what ] and ] are all about, so that's really good, so next step for you, I think, is to take a deep dive into ], paying special attention to ], as it is in these two areas where I believe you have tripped up. It's really important to understand these principles, and if there's a problem, nip it in the bud, because if it becomes a bad habit, it can end up causing you problems and becomes more difficult to change later.


Hey there, just wanted to check if removal of was just an accident before I add them back in if that was an edit conflict accident or intentional :) ] (]) 21:13, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
It's also kind of a newbie mistake to head straight for the ] of an article, or even the ], without having contributed much to the article body, or even knowing much about the history of it, or what Talk page discussions have already taken place about it. (See also ].) For example, ] has been edited by over a thousand editors since it was first created in 2001 in the dawn of Misplaced Pages (shout-out to ], whose ] is still essentially accurate), and has 385 editors watching it now. Beyond that, editing any part of a ] is difficult, and heading straight for the lead only more so. (And if that weren't enough, ] ] may also apply.)


:@], yep, sorry about that lol. Just added them back in! ] (]) 21:16, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
Speaking of that: as hard as it is to get on board as a new Misplaced Pages editor, editing controversial topics such as trans-related issues, is even harder, so I urge you to step with caution, and be guided by other editors who can help you. Maybe avoid editing the ] of trans topics for a while, until you have gained more experience contributing to the body of articles, know something about how the article got that way, have read through the Talk page archives, and understand what the perennial issues are. There's much more I could say, but this is probably more than enough for right now. Just know that I've been editing articles on gender-related and trans topics for ten years or so, and general topics longer than that, so I'm pretty familiar both with general ], as well as the particularities of editing trans topics. Finally, given your contributions in your short history here, I'm pretty much obliged to leave you the message appearing in the next section; don't be alarmed, everyone gets one of these sooner or later. Feel free to call on me at any time for support or if you have questions about editing at Misplaced Pages generally, or on trans topics in particular. Cheers, ] (]) 21:31, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
::No worries, I figured that was probably it, happy editing :) ] (]) 21:17, 22 August 2024 (UTC)


== Standard notice about editing gender-related topics == == I have sent you a note about a page you started ==


Hi Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist. Thank you for your work on ]. Another editor, ], has reviewed it as part of ] and left the following comment:
Hi again. As promised, here is your message about editing on gender-related topics. Normally, I avoid adding this notice for brand new users, but since virtually all of your edits are to trans topics, it's better you learn about this sooner, rather than later after bumping into some restriction you never heard of, or attracting the wrong kind of attention from an Admin. Don't worry, this is not about doing anything wrong, it's about making sure you are '''aware''' of this, so please just read it and follow the links. It's intended to be self-explanatory, but please contact me if there is anything you don't understand. Cheers!
{{ivmbox | image = Commons-emblem-notice.svg |imagesize=50px | bg = #E5F8FF | text = This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. ''It does '''not''' imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.''


{{Bq|1=Suggestion: expand legacy section to include modern understanding of content covered in report/debunking/reasoning behind the evolution of policy in 2014 (to prevent confusion on current status of report and inform)}}
You have shown interest in gender-related disputes or controversies or in people associated with them. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called ] is in effect. Any administrator may impose ] on editors who do not strictly follow ], or the ], when making edits related to the topic.


To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{code|<nowiki>{{Re|</nowiki>Mason7512<nowiki>}}</nowiki>}}. <small>(Message delivered via the ] tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)</small><!-- Template:Sentnote-NPF -->
For additional information, please see the ] and the ] decision ]. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.&nbsp;Thanks. ] (]) 21:38, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
}}<!-- Derived from Template:Ds/alert -->


] (]) 01:03, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
== Thanks! (R.E.: Gloria Hemingway) ==


== AE notification ==
Thank you very much for having my back during the whole Gloria Hemingway debacle! I'm still relatively inexperienced in page editing, & I think a more experienced person like yourself has helped articulate my case in ways I couldn't! ] (]) 20:10, 4 February 2022 (UTC)


== Notice of Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard discussion ==
:: No problem, thanks for having mine! I'm a newbie myself and only joined a month or so ago. The meta commentary and talk page discussions can often reveal individual biases but luckily Misplaced Pages's guidelines are overall fair and applying the right arguments and references often leads to the truth coming out. Also, fun life hack especially in cases like these, if someone is stonewalling and accuses you of breaking guidelines most often they're breaking the same ones! While writing all that to prove she was a trans woman was draining I'm glad to see it paying off. If you ever need help applying LGBT-related Wiki rules to an article just tag me! ] (]) 20:24, 4 February 2022 (UTC)TheTranarchist
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a report involving you at ] regarding a possible violation of an ] decision. The thread is ''']'''. <!--Template:AE-notice--> Thank you.
:::I decided to check up on the page again, & seeing that the page has been moved had me literally tearing up. I can't believe it. I thought this was an insurmountable battle, but it happened! ] (]) 00:45, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
Just a heads up regarding move reviews, you may want to read ], particularly "Commenters should identify whether or not they were involved or uninvolved in the RM discussion under review." Anyway, it's out of our hands now. ]] (]) 23:46, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah, I was hoping you would read it. ''Everything'' you wrote in is irrelevant to the move review. It is not meant to be a discussion about the article name, but ''only'' about whether the close accurately reflected the discussion. Personally, I think your responses are counter-productive to your argument. ]] (]) 02:50, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
:: I apologize, I wasn't aware that the discussion of past moves and consensus of an article was entirely irrelevant to a discussion on the validity of the current Move (which referenced past talk on the page) in an article. It's not as if the same (disproven) arguments were being used in the last move request as the current one or anything, or if the key point revolved around which policy applied. Thanks for responding to my extensive citations of relevant WP policy btw... It's really touching how you ignore all the guidelines and policies I posted which are extremely relevant to the review in favor of raising other issues. Personally, I find your dismissal of relevant policy and guidelines to be very counter-productive to your argument, but sure, me pointing out context was the issue.


Figured I'd notify you since like half the diffs involve you. ] (]) 22:53, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
:: Having indeed read what you sent:
::: "Do not request a move review simply because you disagree with the outcome of a page move discussion. While the comments in the move discussion may be discussed in order to assess the rough consensus of a close, this is not a forum to re-argue a closed discussion. In particular, if you believe that a close should have been "not moved" instead of "no consensus" (or vice-versa), that is not a sufficient reason to begin a move review." The discussion was whether COMMONNAME trumped GENDERID. You made your repeated point that it should very clear, sadly WP policy and guidelines didn't back that. I also refer you to "Disagreements with Misplaced Pages:Requested moves/Closing instructions (WP:RMCI), WP:Article titles, the Manual of Style, a naming convention or the community norm of consensus should be raised at the appropriate corresponding talk page." If you have an issue with the MOS or naming conventions, this wasn't the place to raise it.


== ] ==
::: "Generally, the rationale should be an analysis of whether the closer properly followed Misplaced Pages:Requested moves/Closing instructions, whether it was within administrator discretion and reasonably interpreted consensus in the discussion, while keeping in mind the spirit of Misplaced Pages policy, precedent and project goal."
:::: Spirit of WP policy is a good one (the spirit of respecting trans people hopefully shouldn't immediately dissipate on death because you want to misapply a technicality). Moreover, what I posted was an analysis of previous move requests. Since page name history is indeed considered in these cases, I fail to see how information regarding it was irrelevant.


Hello YFNS, I just came across the article above . I believe that, in light of the advice you have received from HaeB and Svampesky at ] , as well as the earlier review by JPxG , and your editing restriction (0RR on articles for organizations/activists who are affiliated with anti-transgender activism or gender-critical feminism, broadly construed), I would urge you to withdraw the article from consideration (and publish off-wiki if you wish). ''']] (])''' 14:38, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
::: "Remember that move review is not an opportunity to rehash, expand upon or first offer your opinion on the proper title of the page in question – move review is not a do-over of the WP:RM discussion but is an opportunity to correct errors in the closing process (in the absence of significant new information). Thus, the action specified should be the editor's analysis of whether the close of the discussion was reasonable or unreasonable based on the debate and applicable policy and guidelines. "
::::I hardly see how past talk page discussion regarding moves is new information. Debate included past debate on page (especially since arguments have changed little since the last move request), applicable policy and guidelines is something I also provided. Pointing out the discussion has for the most part had two opposing viewpoints, policy vs guideline, and concerns have been raised throughout the page's history about respecting her identity is not unreasonable.


:@] Already did a while ago, I was getting mixed messages from different editorial board members about whether it would never be published or just needed more revisions and ended up giving up a few weeks ago. I think it's odd that somebody famous for misinformation about trans people edited about trans people for a decade and it's not more common knowledge. I've been looking for an alternative publisher, though I've been a bit too busy with work lately to look as hard as I'd like.
::: "Providing evidence such as page views, ghits, ngrams, challenging sourcing and naming conventions, etc. to defend a specific title choice is not within the purview of a move review. Evidence should be limited to demonstrating that the RM closer did or did not follow the spirit and intent of WP:RMCI in closing the page move discussion. "
:@] I asked a while ago if you had any ideas for alternative publishers, just pinging to see if you could offer any advice on that. ] (]) 14:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
:::: Sources were indeed challenged to object to the original move (I believe taking other people's subjective opinions of whether her being trans was valid is indeed challenging sources). Naming conventions regarding trans people were also ignored for the purpose of this Move Review.


::Okay YFNS, if you have withdrawn it, then perhaps ] could be moved to somewhere in ]. As currently it still seems to be up for review at Newsroom/Submissions. ''']] (])''' 15:14, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
:: Building a little for fun: I'll highlight the relevance for you:
::: 1) Not notable under Gloria/more notable under Gregory:
:::: An argument still being used to oppose the move to Gloria.
::: 2) We don't know her gender identification/she flip-flopped
:::: An argument also still being used to oppose the move to Gloria, which also happens to be false (and relies on questioning the validity of her identity based on pathologizing frameworks, discounting her identification, tying respect for her identity to the extent of her transition, and blatantly disregarding the "latest" in "latest self-id")
::: 3) Policy-trumps-guideline
:::: This has been a prominent and become the central question in this discussion and has tied heavily into the history of the page. The other points hinge on assuming we should follow this one. The fact this policy and others say gender guidelines apply is conveniently ignored.


== Margaret Nichols ==
:: Now, lets look at your original premise for the Move Review:
::: "This was a non-admin close (albeit by an experienced editor) that did not seem at all to attempt to determine the consensus of the discussion."
:::: The decision was split 50-50, what consensus are you referring to? The closer went into explicit detail about why the change was approved based on WP guidelines and noted the current state of consensus. In fact, looking at CONSENSUS: "Consensus among a limited group of editors, at one place and time, cannot override community consensus on a wider scale. For instance, unless they can convince the broader community that such action is right, participants in a WikiProject cannot decide that some generally accepted policy or guideline does not apply to articles within its scope." That is to say, ] doesn't stop applying just because you say so.
:::: For funsies, from SUPERVOTE: "It should be noted that consensus discussions (including XfDs and RfCs) are not really polls. For example, if an XfD discussion has more "keeps" than "deletes" but the "deletes" are grounded in policy and the "keeps" are of the WP:ILIKEIT variety (or conversely if the deletes say WP:ITSCRUFT and the "keeps" are grounded in policy), it's not a "supervote" to close in accordance with a significant minority opinion. ... A "non-prejudicial supervote" is when an XfD is closed either against the consensus in the discussion or where there is no clear consensus, though the closer has left a closing rationale that the close is an "editorial decision" and states what the actual consensus is (if there is one)." The moves were based on policy, the keeps were based on very selectively applying policy and ignoring all evidence to the contrary.


FrieNeighSo: Out of curiosity, I looked at the article discussed above, rabbit-holed a bit, and it took me a long while to unravel all that had happened regarding a ] article since. I'm glad to see that the shenanigans had already been detected and are in the midst of being dealt with.
::: "The close introduced a lot of new material (such as reference to BLP) that was not in the discussing, making this close a classic example of a supervote."
:::: Except the relevant guidelines cited heavily linked back and forth with BLP, and the quote from BLP was only a slight variation of what was cited frequently. So, which part exactly was new material? The harms of deadnaming even in death (already raised on the talk page)? The various cited policies and guidelines used in the discussion? This seems like more an excuse to tick off " did not follow the spirit and intent of WP:RMCI because in closing this requested move discussion" than a solid argument.


Having said that, the psychologist is currently listed at the disambiguation page ], but as a link to ]... where she is not mentioned at all, so not a proper disambiguation.
::: "Finally, the close relies heavily on the dubious claim that MOS:GENDERID (a guideline) trumps WP:COMMONNAME (a policy). "
:::: So incredibly dubious... It's not as if multiple people have pointed out the inherent flaw in assuming otherwise (completely nullifying ]). Also not like someone provided extensive citations of WP policy stating look at specific guidelines when applicable and guidelines saying respect trans people.


I don't know much/anything on these specific topics, so I'll leave it up to you whether the correct way of addressing this is to delete her (for now, until her article is revived) or to add her in some form to that typology article. -- ] (]) 15:35, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
::: In short, glass houses, stones. There was more cause for me to raise the history of the talk page and past move requests than there was for you to continue trying to challenge WP policy and guidelines regarding trans people's names. If you have continue to have sincere issues with the policies and guidelines, raise them in the appropriate locations. ] (]) 06:13, 12 February 2022 (UTC)TheTranarchist


:@] thanks for reminding me about that! I was able to get the article undeleted/moved to ] and forgot to finish updating it. I don't have much experience writing about academics so fixing up the article's a different style than I'm used to - I'll ask for help at ] getting it fixed up again! I don't think she belongs in the typology article as she wasn't one of the more influential critics of the typology. ] (]) 15:43, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
== Boots theory ==
== "]" listed at ] ==
]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks"></span> has been listed at ] to determine whether its use and function meets the ]. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 23#User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist/sandbox/Draft:Disinformation report}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 02:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)


== Question re: ] ==
Just a heads up, I'm about to approve the draft, but I'm going to rejig it so it talks about the theory first and the index in a section; its notability predates Monroe's index, after all. I was tempted to make the article myself, but that fell by the wayside a little… ''']''' (]) 22:18, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
: @] Thanks! Great minds think alike I suppose! Pinging you so you don't miss this one, I missed this message and I'd already added a little to it (added a reception section to contain ONS statements and included info about supermarket responses), I hope that doesn't mess too much with your improvements. ] (]) 22:49, 11 February 2022 (UTC)TheTranarchist


Are you familiar with any studies/articles that connect the theory with the econ concept of an ]? The topics feel quite related. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 01:14, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
== Anarchism ==


:@] Sadly not, it's been a while since I did an exhaustive search for sources for the article but I never saw the link made, and I didn't find one quickly looking for it now. I'll try and double back in the next few days and if I can't find anything more concretely tying it I'll make it a see also link! Best, ] (]) 21:23, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
] Hi TheTranarchist,


== T rights tables, article info templates, and all that ==
I saw ] on articles related to anarchism and wanted to say hello, as I work in the topic area too. If you haven't already, you might want to {{watch|Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Anarchism}} our ], which is a great place to ask questions, collaborate, discuss style/structure precedent, and stay informed about content related to anarchism. Take a look for yourself!


Hi, YFNS. Noticed you archived a bunch of stuff recently (it needed it). A couple of things ended up in Archive 5, including {{slink | User talk:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist/Archive/5 | History/rights table | nopage=yes}} and
And if you're looking for other juicy places to edit, consider ], , or ].
{{slink | User talk:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist/Archive/5 | Rebuilding the Tower of Babel | nopage=yes}}, which included discussions about the rights tables (e.g. ]) as built by some of your templates like {{tl|Regional articles}}, {{tl|Article info}}, and {{tl|For loop delimited}}. Not sure where you stand on integrating a table like the one we were discussing into the WikiProject, but I still hope to see it come to fruition. I think we also mentioned possibly platformifying it, so it could be used more generally by other projects. First step before we get to the latter, though, would be just doing the one you originally envisioned as T rights per country, and placing that somewhere at the WikiProject. I think we were very close, or maybe already there?


On a completely different note, but just since you like templating stuff, I've been working lately on {{tl|Section length}} (with a lot of support from Trappist), and on the experimental page-views graph replacement template {{tl|Xviews}} and its talk page cousin, {{tl|Xreadership}}:
Feel free to say hi on my talk page and let me know if these links were helpful (or at least interesting). Hope to see you around. <span style="background:#F3F3F3; padding:3px 9px 4px">]</span> 15:37, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
{{Xreadership|60|User talk:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist}}
: @] Thanks for the warm welcome! I'd already starred it but hadn't taken a good look at the cleanup drive, excited to get involved! ] (]) 21:05, 13 February 2022 (UTC)TheTranarchist


You can see it in use at ], ], ], or ]. If you have any bot-writing skills, I need a bot to help automate the data retrieval part. ] (]) 22:37, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
==DYK for Boots theory==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On ], ''']''' was updated with a fact from the article ''''']''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that according to the ''']''', poverty is more expensive than being rich?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at ]. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page <small>(], )</small>, and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to ]. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the ].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK --> ] (] '''·''' ]) 00:03, 3 April 2022 (UTC)


:Hi @], thanks for reaching out! I was going to start another threat linking them all and am glad you beat me to it lol.
== A barnstar for you! ==
:I'd still like to get the table up and running and haven't had the time to fix it - the issue with it was it contained too many features and exceeded the function call limit when the tables weren't really small. I'm thinking that the languages were what tripped it up, which is a shame because the crosswiki referencing was one of the most important features to my mind. I'll block out some time for it next weekend to try and get it working!
:The new templates are really cool! My only note would be Section length should have a wordcount flag. I think I've seen it in the wild in a few places but can't remember where lol. Alas, I've no experience with Misplaced Pages bots though I wish I did. ] (]) 18:31, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
:: Word count is a pet peeve of mine, and the source of endless disputes at ]. Existing tools are massively off (I'll link an old discussion somewhere if I can find it, where our 3rd longest article, something like 720kb raw, came in at 45 words per the tool). Anyway, I have been thinking about a replacement for word count and we can easily beat the existing tool by light-years without being perfect; it is doable as a template, although a module would be better. As a first approximation: strip templates and html comments, convert contiguous blanks to one blank, return the count the blanks.
:: As to ], I assume you are familiar with ]. This is very likely the limit you are running into, and it could be that long tables would have to be chunked and collapsed. Iirc, only the expanded ones contribute to PEIS, so if you collapse them all, and leave instructions in the doc to only expand one at a time, I think that works. (Otherwise, place on separate subpages and link them with indexing letters, A-D, E-H, etc., or maybe by continent?) The {{tl|Xviews}} template ] for the same reason, and explains how to fine-tune the parameters to avoid exceeding it. ] (]) 19:12, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
::: Maybe word count is better now. Just noticed ] but haven't tested it. ] (]) 19:23, 29 September 2024 (UTC)


=== Dealing with slow tables like T rights ===
{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thanks for your work expanding articles on trans topics, e.g. and . Hope you didn't mind my minor alterations to the former edit {{smiley}} ] (]) 10:31, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
|}


I always had a concern with the T rights table and other such slow-loading tables (e.g., ] loads in 6.15 seconds), and how best to incorporate them, without slowing down every page view, for folks that might not even be interested in that part of the page, and also, without precluding the possibility of adding other complex tables to the page without blowing it up. I don't know if the slow-load issue was a contributing factor in your thinking not to incorporate the table yet, but if it was, I have a solution: implement the table on a standalone subpage, screenshot it to Commons, then add the image file to the page as a static thumbnail, and {{para|link}} it to the subpage. (Or, just link it; but I think the screenshot gives the user an idea what to expect.) This keeps the main page loading fast, and requires one click to get to the table. To view a RW example of this genre, see ], and also the {{slink|WP:WikiProject Countries|Size|nopage=yes}} section right after it. ] (]) 08:59, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:Not at all {{User|Endwise}}, and thank you! Very proud to get my first barnstar!! ] (]) 22:10, 22 April 2022 (UTC)


:@] I'll come back to this in a few days, as I do like the gist of the idea, but me and some friends were gay/transbashed a few days ago and I still have a headache (got my head thrown to the ground and kicked in and needed some stitches) and am to avoid screens per doctors orders for a while longer (we're all relatively ok, alive without visible concussions, and no injuries were critical). Today's the first day my sleep schedules gone mostly back to normal since it happened at midnight and we were in the hospital til morning. Honestly just typing this is getting me shaking again, and I only edited today because I saw some editors trying to defend conversion therapists - fuck this godawful site... Hope you're doing well - we are going to finally roll out these tables soon lol - this incident has temporarily taken me out of commission but the vim and vigors gonna double! ] (]) 18:53, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
==Disambiguation link notification for April 23==
:: Oh, no! I was saddened and outraged by this news. I hope that you (and your friends) are on the mend. Keeping this short for your health; talk soon. ] (]) 02:28, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
::geez. Major hugs, hope you're doing ok (for the circumstances) --] (]) 17:06, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
::May your recovery be fast and complete, and may things get better in general. -- ] (]) 17:21, 24 November 2024 (UTC)


== Reasonable notification ==
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If you are going to notify projects you should also notify editors involved with the prior discussions. Please do to avoid any appearance of canvasing. ] (]) 23:18, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these ]. Thanks, ] (]) 06:12, 23 April 2022 (UTC)


:I have notified the other 3 people that were part of the prior conversation that were not already involved in this new one.
== I appreciate your work ==
:I don't think canvassing was intended on YFNS's part and she simply notified the relevant WikiProject covering the topic. But in any case, as I mentioned, I now took care of notifying the other 3 are aware of it if they would like to participate in the new conversation. ] (]) 23:44, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you. Fwiw, I'd pinged the relevant editors with this comment lol ] (]) 23:52, 5 October 2024 (UTC)


== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
I appreciate your works on trans topics. I'm trans too but I haven't really edited trans topics before, any recommendations on articles to improve? ] ] 06:56, 3 May 2022 (UTC)


]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 17:31, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
:Hello @]! Thank you, that means a lot!! I also really like your works in general, ] was really interesting and I might end up helping you out more with things like that. In terms of which trans topics would be good to edit, I've been meaning to add my TODO list to my user page for a while so you were the welcome kick I needed! The to do list is on my main page so please feel free to check it out! ] (]) 16:04, 3 May 2022 (UTC)


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== Revert at John Money ==


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Generally speaking, if you attempt to add material to an article, as you first did ] at ] concerning his alleged beliefs or actions concerning conversion therapy, and another editor undoes the edit for policy-based reasons, as {{u|DayTime99}} did ], you should then take the matter up at the article Talk page and try to achieve ] among other editors about the content disagreement before moving forward. Unfortunately, you skipped the latter step initially, and went ahead and readded the material the next day (]). This was followed by a revert by the other editor (]), and then finally a Talk page section (thank you for that) and another edit by you almost simultaneously (]) to readd the material a few minutes later. This is not in the best spirit of collaboration at Misplaced Pages. It may also be viewed as ] (see ] for another possible approach to this). In addition, ] may apply to this article, although I'll have to confirm this. Meanwhile, you might want to reread the discussion "]" above. I've removed this material<!--22:00, 22 June--> for cause, as explained at the Talk page. If you disagree, you're welcome to continue your efforts to gain consensus for your point of view in discussion at Talk. Feel free to contact me below, or at my Talk page, if you have any questions. Thanks, ] (]) 23:35, 22 June 2022 (UTC)


== Quality of the ] draft ==
== Stella O'Malley ==


Hi, do you think that the stub is good enough to be reviewed for inclusion in the mainspace? It's the very first time I have ever created the article on Misplaced Pages and I can't help myself when I want our article to go live! ] (]) 20:18, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
Based on , I wonder if you might want to revert as well (possibly adding the Tordoff source as Sideswipe9th proposed). If you do so promptly, it will not count as an additional revert. :) ] (]) 22:08, 30 June 2022 (UTC)


== Health Liberation Now == == Hello again! :) ==


]
Hey. Might I suggest reposting your two lengthy messages made at ] to the ]? While we could come to a local consensus on that talk page as to whether or not this source is reliable, content from that site could be used on many trans and non-binary related articles. A discussion at RSN would enable this. The statements by other RS like Vice and Time go a great deal to establishing the reliability of the source, and you may also wish to check scholarly uses of the site to demonstrate use by others in sources of the highest quality. ] (]) 19:03, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
Hey!


I finally set up the broader ] WikiProject if you're interested in joining! We already have a couple members and think it'll end being really useful as a space to gather the documentation for respective cities tenant histories and their rent strikes. Especially in the way that they intersect with each other. Overall I'm very excited. Feel free to add your name if you'd like to join.
== Genspect RfC ==


Nice to talk to you again.
Hey. You should re-review ] with regards to the RfC you just launched at ]. You need to sign the RfC question otherwise Legobot, the bot which adds the RFC to the appropriate lists won't pick up on it correctly, and might even remove it outright. You should also review ], as the notification you gave at ] is pretty biased because of the overview paragraph and fails ]. There's a couple of templates that you can use for such notifications that are considered neutral, which are listed at the bottom of ]. ] (]) 02:17, 20 September 2022 (UTC)


Best, ] (]) 04:25, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
:P.S. In the RfC question you don't need the second sentence. That could be better presented and fleshed out in more detail in your !vote as proposer. There you can also draw in any supporting references, or choice quotes for your chosen position. ] (]) 02:19, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
::{{ping|Sideswipe9th}} Thank you! Guess I'm still learning the ropes. I thought I had signed it, I've just gotten spoiled by the reply button and now expect my comments to be auto-signed lol. I was somewhat unsure of the format which is why I thought it might be better to point to the above discussion than leave the first vote on the RFC I opened. Fixed both issues.
::I was trying hard as I could to be neutral with the second paragraph and just give a general overview of the facts and discussion. Nothing I said in it was false, most of it's in the lead of the article, and the primary issue editors have raised with including the descriptor has been that not all sources use the term. Frankly I think it's fairly ridiculous we need to have this RFC in the first place for obvious reasons but c'est la vie. Do you think it would be better to remove the paragraph or add it as a reply to the post? ] (]) 02:35, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
:::{{tq|Do you think it would be better to remove the paragraph or add it as a reply to the post}} Remove it entirely from the notification on the WikiProject, then make a similar contribution to the RfC itself. Keep the notification of the RfC short and sweet, all you need to say is that there's an RfC that has interests to the WikiProject on an article talk page. ] (]) 02:37, 20 September 2022 (UTC)


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== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
== Thanks and good job ==


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Good job on counterbalancing all the "gender critical" articles that have a disingenuous positive or euphemistic facade\presentation. I'd do the same or would help you out if I had the time and the skills.... –<code>]</code><small>]</small> 21:08, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
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== Ways to improve Health Liberation Now! ==


== Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment ==
Hello, TheTranarchist,


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{{Quote|1=Please review the sources. Some of these do not cover the subject in detail but merely quote employees. The article appears it may not meet notability standards. Will leave it a little while for further review.}}


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] (]) 23:13, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

:{{Re|MaxnaCarta}} I got all the sources by searching for the exact text "Health Liberation Now" and Ky Schevers and Lee Leveille are described by Xtra Magazine as the driving force behind it, as they're the founders and only two acknowledged employees.
:In terms of notability, I believe that Xtra Magazine meets ]. I think the Independent article does as well since while it focuses more on Leveille's research and only names the organization once, it links to it more often as the research they're referring to. ] (]) 23:24, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
::@] another editor thinks its notable, so it's likely to be reviewed now. All g! :) Keep up the good work. ] (]) 23:31, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
:::{{re|MaxnaCarta}} Thank you! ] (]) 23:36, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
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== Friendly greetings ==

Hey, just saw your .

It's not relevant to the RFC so I don't plan to engage with it (sorry, I've already argued these things for hours IRL, and we could debate for hours ourselves, but I doubt I'd hear an argument I haven't heard before). But I just wanted to make clear that I'm not attacking ''you'', have zero animosity against you whatsoever, and respect you as an editor. When I said the comparison was "condemnable", I wasn't targettinng you, just the wording itself, which I've indeed heard many times before. Just wanted to make it clear "it's not personal" (I don't do 'personal'). Feel free to remove this (or keep, whatever) once you've read it. ] (]) 18:52, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

:{{ping|DFlhb}} Thank you for the greetings, I knew you weren't personally attacking me, but still felt the wording was justifiable and "condemnable" was a bit far as I was trying to illustrate a point about the language used by the Telegraph as covered in RS, especially given the similarities between the two concepts has been noted by those who experience both transphobia and antisemitism and is a nuanced position people can respectfully debate and disagree about. My apologies for the wall of text, I always reply thoroughly and try and be as comprehensive as possible in my arguments, sometimes too much so. In any case, I likewise have nothing personal, respect your work as an editor, and wish you only the best. ] (]) 15:26, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
::{{tq|wish you only the best}} Very much likewise! ] (]) 03:32, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

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== so what do I do to see your discussions of Misplaced Pages ==

Struggling with Mastodon! ] ] 17:10, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

:{{tps}} {{re|Doug Weller}} Think of Mastodon accounts somewhat like email accounts. An account username is in the format <code>@username@instance-name</code>.
:So if you've signed up for an instance that isn't the one that TheTranarchist is on, then into the search box on your instance you'll want to put both the username and instance name into the searchbox on your instance. You can get those from TheTranarchist's profile on the instance {{they|TheTranarchist}} are on. However if you're on the same instance as TheTranarchist is on, then you can just put their username into the search box. This will bring up their profile on your instance, and you should be able to click the Follow button then.
:If you are on another instance, don't worry if you can't see all of TheTranarchists posts. The way that Mastodon works is that the instance you're on only starts caching content from a user on another instance after someone on your instance either follows them or boosts one of their toots. As soon as you follow them, any new posts made by that user will start to appear in your timeline. If you want to read their old posts however, before you followed them, then you'll need to open their profile in a web browser, on their instance. Then you can scroll down until you've seen everything. If however you're on the same instance, then all of their posts prior to your following them will appear because it's local data. ] (]) 20:10, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
::Also you should check whether your instance is one of those that block kolektiva.social, which could also cause this. ■&nbsp;∃&nbsp;]&nbsp;⇔&nbsp;∃&nbsp;]&nbsp;''';''' 20:56, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I'd forgotten about that. kolektiva has been defederated by some instances, eightpoint.app by others. And of course those two have mutually defederated each other as well. That whole situation between those two instances (and one more whose name I can't remember) is a mess to put mildly. ] (]) 21:34, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
::Thanks. Must try that out tomorrow. ] ] 21:36, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Doug Weller}} Hi Doug, sorry I forgot to get back to you on this, were you able to work everything out on Mastodon? ] (]) 20:58, 26 December 2022 (UTC)
::::@] I’m getting there. Looks better than Post so far but of course I’m on the Beta version. I’ve already followed ] and Flint DIbble on Mastodon. Flint does a lot of debunking of fringe archaeology. Thanks. ] ] 21:21, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

== Edit Warring Warning ==

Hi there. You're involved in an edit war on ] and appear to be debating another editor through edit summaries. By my count, you're at 3 reverts in the last 24 hours, and any further would be ]. Please bring these discussions to the article's talk page.

Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, ''']''' ~ (]) 20:45, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello {{ping|Lord Roem}}, I was not the only editor reverting PaddyKumar's edits, which were mostly tantamount to vandalism. They seem obviously ], and in their latest edit they openly use bigoted language and defend their supposed right to misgender trans people. They exceeded 3RR before I did, which I warned them about, and I asked them to take their concerns to talk. Me and other editors explained our points at talk. While I appreciate the warning, I just wanted to point out the above context. I'm actually planning to raise the issue of their editing at AE, but am not sure the proper procedure and besides am still away from my computer with a phone near dying. ] (]) 00:30, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

{{ping|Lord Roem}} Broken ping so redoing ] (]) 00:33, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

: Saw the block and AE case after I wrote this lol. Double the appreciation! ] (]) 01:43, 30 December 2022 (UTC)TheTranarchist

== Ways to improve Novae Terrae Foundation ==

Hello, TheTranarchist,

Thank you for creating ].

] have tagged ] as having some issues to fix, as a part of our ] and note that:

{{Quote|1=Nice article! I fixed some ] links and also typos, but this should be proofread further.}}

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and begin it with <code><nowiki>{{Re|</nowiki>Shushugah<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>. Remember to sign your reply with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>. For broader editing help, please visit the ].

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== Contentious topic alerts ==

Hey. Just wanted to let you know, when you're issuing a CT alert to an editor for the first time, you need to use <code><nowiki>{{subst:alert/first|topic=...}}</nowiki></code> instead of <code><nowiki>{{subst:alert|topic=...}}</nowiki></code>. The {{t|Contentious topics/alert/first}} template produces a longer text version with more info in it, and also includes a default uneditable header. I dunno why ArbCom decided to create separate first and second alert templates, but they did.

Oh and if you're issuing multiple alerts due to overlap (eg GENSEX + BLP), I've taken to doing an alert/first for the first topic, and then in the same message use alert for every other topic. ] (]) 18:27, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

:Thanks for the heads up and tips! Just fixed it, it had felt off/shorter than usual but I thought they'd just updated the template lol. ] (]) 18:51, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

== WP:NOCONFED ==

I must say, that's quite a way to state your endorsement! Also, if you know some other users who might be interested in this essay and its topic, please inform them! — ] ] <sup>(] / ])</sup> 21:45, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

:@] Thank you, I try my best lol. I spent a few years in my childhood in a small town in upstate NY where people flew confederate flags off their porches, so I know first-hand it's got fuck all to do with heritage and is nothing but flagging as a racist with the thinnest (or just fully transparent) veneer of plausible deniability. My dad taught me John Brown's Body (among a host of lefty, socialist, civil war union and trade union songs) and I've sung it long as I can remember, so it seemed very fitting! I'll make a post about it on Mastodon. ] (]) 21:56, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

::Upstate NY? From the historical perspective, I find it very ironical (and surprising) that such things happen in a former ] stronghold; somehow, I always thought that neo-Confederates are mostly limited to the ] (as these are ex-Confederate territories). I guess one can learn something new every day... On the other hand, its not surprising that it was a small town; such environment (somewhat rural, etc) is far more fertile ground for neo-Confederate ideas, than large urban areas (as far as I know). — ] ] <sup>(] / ])</sup> 22:18, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
:::@] My thoughts exactly, there was no "heritage" excuse for flying them up there. They are certainly more visible in the South (where you get open confederate monuments from Jim Crow), and more broadly in rural areas than urban ones, but I've even seen confederate flags in NYC. Though they're usually flown next to nazi flags, with proud boys, or at MAGA marches - more in temporary displays at far right events than permanent fixtures (though the case in different in conservative bastions such as long island and staten island and some fly from homes there). ] (]) 23:24, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

::::Honestly, "heritage" excuse (or "]") can't be a justification for flying them up even in the South, not to mention the North, etc. Also, I just can't believe that you saw confederate flags in NYC, but I'll take your word for it. As for confederate monuments, I'd say that ] in recent years, even in the South, along with other confederate symbols... — ] ] <sup>(] / ])</sup> 23:36, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

=== Additional ===

Also, I want to say that I appreciate your decision to share your life story (or some of it) on your userpage; I am sure that many people, in the same or similar situation, will find your experience as something helpful. I am sorry to hear about you being forced to stay in the closet and only able to transition at 16; I can't even imagine the burden of living in a small town, with a bunch of neo-Confederate people nearby, and being forced to hide your true identity. Thankfully, all of that is behind you now. — ] ] <sup>(] / ])</sup> 15:17, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's exactly what I was going for! To be so explicitly un-apologetically trans Misplaced Pages feels safer for other editors and to perhaps humanize me in the eyes of transphobes checking out my page (though that's a long shot lol).
:To clarify though, I only spent 2/3 years of my life up there, though I have friends there and would visit occasionally growing up. I actually spent most of my time closeted in the big apple, which was only marginally better, as trans people have been beaten, attacked, stabbed, and harassed within a close radius of my home, and all over the city for that matter. I watched my trans friends, those who were lucky enough to have supportive families and come out younger, still get all sorts of abuse. In hindsight I was very obviously trans, to the extend that even in elementary school a trans boy I was friends with was taken off the school-bus by his mother since I was a "bad influence" (presumably she'd somehow learned we would draw queer art together and I would sometimes be more openly feminine since the back of the bus was where the queer kids hung out). I watched the public schools get slowly more accepting, though that was patchy, as I watched my trans friends in high school facing bullshit from other students and the administration; one time my Econ/Gov teacher had us debate and discuss the ] case and talked about how weird she looked and how it might disturb a grieving family. I was only able to come out after I graduated and moved out (at 16) since I knew my father wouldn't be accepting, but at least of the mindset that if I was already self-sufficient he'd just sign off.
:The closet is behind me, but it's out of the frying pan and into the fire. I'm no longer a suicidal alcoholic trying to bury the pain of living a lie - I'm myself without any shame and have solid friends and people know me for who I really am. But we also have transphobes and fascists explicitly ramping up their calls for genocide and state repression of trans people and rapidly using the issue to consolidate power. I've always done everything in my power to fight and organize for a better world and against fascism, as it's fight or die, so I'm openly proud to make sure fascists don't get to control Misplaced Pages or information. ] (]) 16:49, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

== February 2023 ==

] Your edit to ] has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added ] material to Misplaced Pages without evidence of ] from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read ] for more information on uploading your material to Misplaced Pages. For legal reasons, Misplaced Pages cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of ''information'', but not as a source of ''content'', such as sentences or images&mdash;you must write using your own words. Misplaced Pages takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy '''will be ]'''. See ] for more information. ''You can't just copy from the source and change a few words, it needs to be completely rewritten.''<!-- Template:uw-copyright --> (] &#183; ]) ''']''' 18:00, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

:@] How was this calculated? The 3 paragraphs removed are a reworded summary of concepts covered and mentioned in a span of 20 pages in the book - I have it open right now and the language is consistently markedly different (sadly can't get a digital copy anywhere). I tried checking the Earwig Copyvio detector on the old revision id but it won't load. ] (]) 19:41, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
::Making no comment on the copyvio for now, but the cited book chapter is available at ] through the American Psychological Association collection. ] (]) 19:54, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
:::Thank you! I'd been waiting for it to be available there for a while (I can finally return this overdue loan from the library lol). Checked there before you commented but couldn't find it for some reason, changing my search terms worked though! The removed paragraphs still seem mostly summarization, but I'll rewrite them when I get a chance tonight. ] (]) 20:22, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
::Ok, read the {{diff2|1136888090|three removed paragraphs}} from the article, and the cited source side by side now. In doing so I was able to clearly identify specific sentences from the book chapter that were only minimally paraphrased from the source text. I've listed below the mappings between the article and source texts.
::Article text -> Source text
::First paragraph, first sentence -> second paragraph (first new paragraph) on page 53, first sentence
::First paragraph, second sentence -> second paragraph (first new paragraph) on page 53, third sentence
::First paragraph, third sentence -> second paragraph (first new paragraph) on page 53, fourth sentence
::Second paragraph, first sentence -> page 58, first sentence in Treatments for Gender Identity section
::Second paragraph, second sentence -> page 58, second sentence in Treatments section
::Second paragraph, third sentence -> page 58, fifth sentence in Treatments section?
::Second paragraph, fourth sentence -> page 58, fourth and fifth sentence in Treatments section
::Second paragraph, fifth sentence -> page 58, seventh sentence in treatments section
::Third paragraph, first sentence -> page 58, first sentence, second paragraph in Treatments section
::Third paragraph, second sentence -> page 58, second sentence, second paragraph in Treatments section
::Third paragraph, third sentence -> page 58, third sentence, second paragraph in Treatments section
::This to me does read like a ] issue, which would not be reliably detected by Earwig even if it had access to the source. That said, for some of the sentences, there is an degree of ] in play. But when each paragraph is read as a whole, the similarities not only in word order but also sentence order with respect to the source text does make this a CLOP problem. This is particularly evident in the third paragraph of the article, which is exceptionally similar to the second paragraph of the Treatments section in the source material. ] (]) 20:23, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

== February 2023 ==

It is a violation of the policy regarding ] to call a living person a "nazi barbie" anywhere on Misplaced Pages. Do not repeat that misconduct. ] (]) 23:23, 4 February 2023 (UTC)


== Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment ==
:@] Does that extend to people who openly work with white-supremacists and have literally used a Nazi barbie as a profile picture? If this is in regards to my commit message, I said {{tq|her nazi barbie debacle}}, which refers to her profile picture, not directly calling her something. If this is in regards to my user page, she called me a "trancel", so let she who is without sin cast the first stone and all that. ] (]) 23:28, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
::If I might make a suggestion, as someone else who has also been harassed by a subject/entity we ] in this content area, it's ] about that subject/entity when they are currently or previously have harassed you. Given those circumstances, it might be better to limit yourself to only preforming uncontroversial maintenance edits on the article (eg vandalism removal), and make suggestions for controversial edits on the article's talk page instead of making them directly. ] (]) 23:37, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
:::That's a fair approach. On the other hand though, her harassment (consisting of two insults in two tweets) was directly in regards to the fact I wrote the article and she didn't like the contents. It feels like an extremely dangerous precedent for TERFs †, or anyone for that matter, to be able to insult someone who edited their article on Twitter and in doing so force them to step back from the article. None of my edits have been controversial thus far, as no editors (barring SPA's and people blocked for persistent transphobia) have raised any issues with my edits there, as they've all been factual and easily verifiable. If it can help avoid further issues, should I declare the potential COI and context on the article talk page?
:::† Before anyone says that's an insult, it's not, but more importantly it's a term she uses for herself regularly ] (]) 23:54, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
::::BLP policy applies to every single living portion on Earth, no matter how reprehensible they are. No exceptions. It is a really bad idea to edit the biographies of people that you are feuding with off-Misplaced Pages. Keep in mind that the ] is a core content policy that must be followed by all editors. It is difficult to be neutral about a person you are arguing with. ] (]) 00:14, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
:::::I am not "feuding" with her off-wikipedia though. I have never interacted with her in my life outside of having written the article about her. She has only ever one thing about me directly, {{tq|HINT : the wikipedia entry is made by a rather boastful trancel who enjoys lying about people online}}, having previously more generally {{tq|The defamatory page about me on @Misplaced Pages @JWalesF has been semi protected and cannot be edited. All edits in the history have been undone. The sad little incels are ensuring the lies remain}}. My only response was to include that she said that in my honorable mentions, mention that she has literally used a nazi barbie as a profile picture, and get on with my life.If every time a public figure complains about their article and insults the editors who wrote it or an editor who significantly contributed is grounds for the editors having to step back on the basis of ], we would very quickly lose all our editors. ] (]) 00:41, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
::::Certainly that sort of harassment could easily be gamed by an article subject, and at the extreme end of it yes it could lead to attempts to stack the consensus deck off-wiki. However we do already have processes in place for handling that sort of thing, from noticeboards like BLPN and ANI, right the way through to ].
::::On declaring the COI with one of the templates, only you can really answer that I think. There is a balance between declaring a COI, and ] yourself. In the case of the harassment against me, that entity posted photos of me alongside my name and social media links. While I could declare my COI with the templates, it would make it somewhat easier to link me to an offline identity. I largely trust myself enough to self-police with regards to that article, and save COI declarations for when they are contextually relevant. Thankfully, despite the noise that organisation makes online, the article itself sees very little editorial interest outside of the occasional bit of drive-by vandalism and the addition of sources whenever they are noticed in the media. Thus far I've only had to declare it once, in a discussion over a year ago.
::::I don't know the full context behind how KJKM has attacked you. Whether or not the harassment was something generic and relatively anonymous like "look at this anonymous editor who has been editing my page, they are such a ", or more targeted like "TheTranarchist is , they are such a ", and whether or not declaring a COI could lead to further harassment by the article subject. Those are really only questions you can ask and answer to yourself. ] (]) 00:34, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
:::::Was just about to publish my above comment when you did lol. Her only harassment has been towards the wikipedia editors who have protected her page from vandalism in general and me specifically by calling me a "trancel" (and even then, not naming me, just referring to me). There is no link to my personal life, her only beef with me has been the fact I wrote the article. ] (]) 00:47, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
: is inappropriate. Please remove the ] material from your userpage. ]] 00:41, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
::] refers to attacking other editors and content unrelated to the encyclopedia. Noting popular responses to articles I've written does not count as ] by any stretch. Nothing there is false, most is in her article. Which part specifically do you take issue with? ] (]) 00:54, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
:::No Misplaced Pages editor should be writing things like this about a living person that the editor has written a biography of: {{tpq|She just doesn't like reality and thinks if she yells enough it will suddenly change. Frankly, the funniest part is not only does she just mindlessly yell "lies" (which her followers uncritically regurgitate in lockstep, pointlessly swarming the article's talk page), she feels forced to resort to ad-hominems of some 19 year old girl she's never met (which are even funnier when you consider, as my best friend laughed pointing out, I'm poly and have three girlfriends). But hey, attacking trans kids while lying through her teeth and claiming everyone else is the liar is really par for the course.}} That type of commentary is unseemly, definitely polemical and a violation of BLP policy. Do not write a Misplaced Pages biography and then denounce that person on your Misplaced Pages userpage. If publicized, it could bring discredit on Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 08:53, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
::::Although I am far from a fan of this particular BLP I have to agree that this type of commentary is gratitutous and unhelpful. We're here to build an encyclopedia, not to denounce people (even if they are genuinely awful). (] &#183; ]) ''']''' 09:05, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
::::The first sentence admittedly might be too on the nose and can be rewritten/removed. The second sentence is factual: she indeed called the article full of lies (I can drop the "mindlessly", and to be fair her PR strategy isn't mindless so much as coldly calculated, I hope), indeed never bothered to point a single supposed lie out, and her followers indeed swarmed the talk page to call the article biased and full of lies (once again, never bothering to point any out). The ad-hominem is plain to see, and I reserve to right to point out how ridiculously off the mark it is (I didn't even bother to respond with any ad-hominen of my own, I just laughed at how bad hers was, and it took all my New York soul to not actually throw any serious shade). The third sentence points out that given her history and activities, her personal attacks on me are entirely predictable, and when her only notability is campaigning against trans rights and harassing trans people that's not exactly a big secret. I am here to build an encyclopedia and this isn't denouncement, just laughing about an honorable mention, ie her criticism of the article and childish insults towards me. I'm not in the habit of "denouncing" people on my userpage after writing articles, my userpage would be a lot longer if I was, I just list public attention I get for my work here and analyze it. ] (]) 16:41, 5 February 2023 (UTC)


]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 19:30, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
== Ways to improve Gays Against Groomers ==


== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
Hello, TheTranarchist,


]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 22:30, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for creating ].


== ] ==
] have tagged ] as having some issues to fix, as a part of our ] and note that:


OUTING explicitly covers {{tq|personal profiles on external sites}}. If you have private evidence of COI editing there is ] for handling that. ] (]) 14:46, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
{{Quote|1=Engaging article, but needs a lot of improvements. Formatting needs to be addressed to better comply with ] and specifically ]. Current section titles make it difficult for the reader to navigate the article with ease and content goes into too much extraneous detail. It might be a good idea to take a look at some GA-level articles on political organizations and see how they are organized (like ]--another far-right group, which despite being a very long article covers its subject very well). It's important to keep in mind the expectations of a reader unfamiliar with the subject and whether the article would be easy for them to navigate. Also, be mindful of overciting; the reflist needs to be cleaned up. Finally, some images would be helpful. Feel free to reach out if you have any more questions!}}


:@] since my original comment was revdelled, can you please confirm for the record that I did not 1) link to his external profile or 2) even state what it was? I referenced and linked to an on-wiki discussion where another editor, also without linking, asked him to disclose he was pushing for a source that cited himself in a discussion where he left dozens of comments (and the talk page I referenced still has the exact same vague info I was accused of outing for).
The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and begin it with <code><nowiki>{{Re|</nowiki>Ppt91<nowiki>}}</nowiki></code>. Remember to sign your reply with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>. For broader editing help, please visit the ].
:Unrelatedly, could you please revert this reversion with a misleading summary: the removed information is covered by almost every source in the article and definitely the three it was cited to. ] (]) 16:46, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
::You stated that the link contained a connection to their offsite profile with enough information to snoop it out. That is a violation of OUTING. ] (]) 16:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@] Thanks for handling the vandalism! TBH, I'm concerned that me linking an on-wiki discussion about his COI (<small> that I did not participate in - though I participated in the broader one I didn't for the COI bit</small>) is being called outing, but the original discussion still has ''the same exact information'' and is still up. On one of the highest trafficked talk pages I've seen in GENSEX, that IIRC has a few admins watching it. I am frankly very confused why I was revdelled but the original was not.
:::I would link to the discussion and quote the other editor to prove I didn't go further then she did, but for fairly obvious reasons won't lol. I would appreciate 1) some acknowledgement that I was in fact quoting/paraphrasing a public on-wiki discussion about his COI without more info than was there and 2) some admins giving him a note at AE to watch the COI.
:::P.S. I'd missed it, but congrats on becoming an arb! And my condolences lol. I am both very happy to see you there and sorry for all the headaches it'll cause. ] (]) 17:19, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I can't read the diff anymore because it was OSd, but if you direct me via email to where it is mentioned I can clear it up, revdel, and request OS, or you could just email the info to ]. It shouldn't be visible. Admins who aren't functionaries can't take off-wiki evidence into account, which is why there's a private VRT queue for COI, so unless it is publicly disclosed we can't really do anything at AE about that. I still have a few weeks before my new hat is ready, so I don't have the ] to do anything about it right now. ] (]) 17:31, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::@] Just sent the email! ] (]) 19:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::{{tps}}Hi all, I actually also have access to some off-wiki information regarding this editor which I have absolutely not put anywhere on Misplaced Pages nor will I. I'd honestly planned on just sitting on it but, in light of the Raladic arb enforcement case, I am afraid it might have some relevance. But it's not about a CoI so much as it is about off-wiki activities related to Misplaced Pages. If I decide this is appropriate to share with arbitrators (still very much on the fence about it) would it go to the same email address as CoI? ] (]) 19:25, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I'd say email it to arbcom, SFR, and the other admins at the AE case (pending confirmation from SFR that's the right move). You will not be the first to have done so by far, but who knows it might help.
:::::::If anything I'd say its an open secret. Good on you for not mentioning onwiki. If you recall the story of the ] - on Misplaced Pages the boy's outburst would be considered a worse crime than the emperor's public indecency. ] (]) 19:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::::Don't email regular admins, since they can't use private evidence of off-wiki activities. Send it up to Arbcom if it's not COI related, and send it to COIVRT if it is COI related. ] (]) 19:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Thanks - that's what I thought but I wanted to make sure I got it right with this. As I said I really don't know if it's something I should share. And as such, if I do come to the point of deciding it's relevant I want to be very confident I'm handling it appropriately. ] (]) 20:06, 10 December 2024 (UTC)


== No truth, only beauty ==
<small>Delivered via the ] tool, on behalf of the reviewer.</small> <!-- Template:Taggednote-NPF -->


There's an amusingly postmodern sense in anti-trans spaces, it seems, that their disinformation and disregard for evidence-based practice is just fine and dandy because what matters isn't material reality so much as their aesthetic preconceptions. "Who cares about suicide rates among trans youth when somebody might see a penis where it wasn't expected?" I suspect a lot of this "but can SEGM REALLY be fringe" stuff comes from the same basis.
] (]) 23:34, 7 February 2023 (UTC)


The problem is that, once someone has taken as a given that there is no materiality only discourse, arguing with them ends up being like nailing jello to the wall. This is to say, I see your frustrations regarding the pushback on SEGM and, as much as I really don't want to have that argument with anyone, I still salute your effort. ] (]) 19:45, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:Hi @], thank you for reviewing the page! Dealing with the vandalism and updating it a bit I forgot to reach back out to you for some advice on this. I was originally trying to model it more off ], but that they upgraded from a twitter account to an organization poses some difficulties. I created the sections after compiling the articles mentioning them and the sections were based off the themes that consistently emerged.
:Running an idea past you, what do you think of updating it to the following sectioning?
:* History
:** Founding
:** Funding
:* Activities
:** Protests and rallies
:** Legislation
:** Harassment (which should also be updated to include a bit more of their targeting of individual journalists/parents/public figures)
:* Reception
:** Criticism (currently present but listed under Reception rather than a subsection)
:** Social media platforms
:** Conservative and far-right media
:Additionally, that's not the first time I've been told my articles can be intricately/overly-detailed lol, so could you point out some sections that need addressing in that regard so I can trim them down? ] (]) 16:27, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
::@] Thanks for getting back to me. Replying in haste to let you know I'll definitely look through and provide some more thoughtful feedback soon. Also, I wanted to let you know that I am in strong support of the work you're doing and, especially as a queer man myself, think Misplaced Pages needs more well-crafted LGBTQ focused pages, including of course those shedding light on groups actively hostile to the community. I'll be back in touch soon! ] (]) 17:22, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
:::@] here's my feedback regarding structure
:::* '''History (Heading)''' ''I would divide into appropriate subsections using'' <u>Subheading 1</u> ''eg "Political origins (2017 to 2020)" or something along those lines; just a suggestion; you can include Funding here as a subsection''
:::* '''Activities (Heading)'''
:::** Protests and rallies (<u>Subheading 1)</u>
:::** Legislation (<u>Subheading 1)</u>
:::** Harassment (<u>Subheading 1)</u> ''I think this is fine as is with possible smaller subsections using'' <u>Subheading 2</u> ''for topics that really need one''
:::* '''Reception (Heading)'''
:::** Criticism (<u>Subheading 1)</u> ''Keeping it simple and, as above, using smaller subsections if needed with the use of <u>Subheading 2</u>''
:::** Praise (<u>Subheading 1)</u>
:::I believe this structure should satisfy ] but abide by its rules in case there are any inconsistencies in my recommendation.
:::As for writing tips specifically, I think a clearer structure will lend itself to better prose because you will remain more focused on what needs to be included in each. See how it goes and I am happy to help in the process! ] (]) 20:27, 17 February 2023 (UTC)
::::Thanks for the feedback! Sorry it took me a minute to respond to this but as we know I got caught up dealing with other articles lol.
::::I'll update the article along these lines tomorrow!
::::A few quick thoughts, for "History" I'm thinking of splitting it into subsections "Twitter account" and "Incorporation", which will have subsubsection "Funding". For "Praise", I'm not sure if we have the sourcing to justify that but I can double check. I can't recall any sources that mention them being praised per se, usually they just note that they appear frequently on far-right media and are agreed with there.
::::Additionally, do you think the image should be their or the image on their ? ] (]) 05:57, 18 February 2023 (UTC)


:Absolutely. I do find it amazing how ] (kids are catching trans from the internet, most kids grow out of it, it's "''too easy''" for kids to transition) are being framed as a difference of opinion.
== Contentious topic warning ==
:The discourse note is particularly interesting - it's a known feature and not a bug of SEGM/GETA/Genspect they focus on pumping out copious amounts of ''bullshit''. They change the dominant discourse, to change the material conditions, to change the discourse, and on and on. Hegemony at it's finest. Not the medical discourse of course, the popular medical discourse. If no major medical organization buys your bullshit, you can easily sidestep all scientific rigour for the appearance of it, get the Economist to quote you, and appear before judges. As soon as you start looking at actual facts and RS it all falls apart - hence the fact certain editors who push these ideologies consistently fail, though waste everybody's time to do it.
:Thanks for the salute, wish I could just edit and people didn't feel a need to do so though lol. I came here to fill in info, thinking the systemic bias was just a lack of coverage, not an editing environment very tolerant of civil pseudoscience pushing. But, likewise, I've seen, appreciate, and salute your own efforts across the site. ] (]) 02:26, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
::I've even seen "well the supreme court of the USA and the Economist" used as an argument in favour of including TERF nonsense on this website. Literally those two things together. It's... it's demoralizing. It's so easy for Misplaced Pages to deal with nazis but because the UK press decided, "let's all shit on trans women" we're just stuck with all this bullshit. And people wonder why I'm against using newsmedia on this project. ] (]) 19:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
:::It'd be funny if it wasn't so depressing... A quick comeback if you want it is
:::# US v Skrmetti has every single medical org in the US supporting trans healthcare facing a bunch of Evangelical organizations
:::# RS do quote blatantly FRINGE groups making arguments before the supreme court, and they're still fringe - here is the ] being quoted by the NYT in a piece on ]
:::] (]) 20:14, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I think I just said that neither the Economist nor the Supreme court was operating within their area of specialty and as such their opinions were undue. XD. ] (]) 20:16, 13 December 2024 (UTC)


== Thanks and good luck ==
As you have already received ] about contentious topics being in affect, I'm ] about your conduct in the area. External links that ] are not permitted and are a very fast way to get blocked, regardless of who the person is that you are levying them against or if you or I agree with any of their thoughts. Please ensure that all your edits fully comply with the policies and practices of Misplaced Pages. -- ] 16:07, 11 February 2023 (UTC)


Hey there,
:@] My apologies, someone else had identified the conflict of interest without providing any evidence and I wanted to independently verify the information since that's a heavy charge to make without supporting details. Thanks for the link, I see now I should have emailed that directly to an admin or arbitrator. Would it be appropriate to add a COI template to the relevant talk page or should I leave that to an uninvolved admin? ] (]) 16:21, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
just wanted to send you a brief note.
::Sorry, I'm not too involved in the COI enforcement realm. Which template are we talking about? <small>Also excuse my bad link above, I have fixed it.</small> -- ] 16:29, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for your continued effort in trying to help curtail anti-trans misinformation. Sad it fell on deaf ears.
:::No worries, the one at ], I'm not sure if he'd have to add that himself or if someone else could. ] (]) 16:33, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
This had honestly taken too much of a mental toll, so I'm taking a step back. ] (]) 21:23, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
::::That would be a self-disclosure template. Not saying this rises to a level of needing a post here, but at the top of ] might provide some useful advice for you. -- ] 16:40, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
:::::Thanks! Might not be necessary yet, he's tried to edit the page once and left three comments on the talk page, all in favor of describing her as a "women's rights activist" campaigning for "single-sex female only spaces", but that's it. If he continues it might be more worth it, given that he supports the person/organization and has gone as far as to show up at their rallies so is not neutral. However, it would be best if he was forthright and open about the COI on that page so it doesn't need to be brought to ]. ] (]) 17:07, 11 February 2023 (UTC)


:@] I am very sad to see you go - been feeling down since I saw your message - but understand all too well. Thank ''you'' - you've done a lot more than me, have put up with this bullshit longer than I have, and absolutely deserve a break. I'm really hoping to see you back here soon but simply hope things get less stressful for you. I'm proud to call you one of the friends I've made on this hellsite; please reach out to talk/vent and if you're ever in NYC hit me up, first round/joint/meals on me! ] (]) 02:07, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
Tranarchist, how many edit wars do you want to be in at any one time? Because now it's ], where I think you're duking it out with four other editors. And this is after ] and ]. ], I think this user's heart in the right place--but they are seriously overdoing it, and this is too much conflict. ] (]) 01:31, 18 February 2023 (UTC)


== Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment ==
:@] In all honesty, for my mental health and sanity I try and set a cap at 2 or 3 concurrent ones, preferably 1, or even better none.
:Any outside perspectives on the FAIR article would be greatly appreciated as it's been very draining. "Local consensus" there seems to be 1) to remove anything vaguely critical of the organization, 2) to remove relevant details (such as multiple RS pointing out Rufo had a large role in creating the CRT panic), 3) to convert the article into a puff piece where the lead doesn't follow the body and just lists their fucking mission statement, 4) to launch personal attacks against me rather than responding to any points raised, and 5) to push a POV and factually incorrect notion that transgender students do not have a recognized right to have their names/pronouns respected. As a sidenote, one of the biggest pushers of all of those fields finds it apparently acceptable behavior to deadname Brianna Ghey in an unrelated discussion then cry about being censored - somehow managing to make the Times look comparatively progressive on trans issues as even they apologized for their deadnaming. That's not even mentioning the massive undisclosed COI that I raised to arb-com this afternoon but have yet to receive word on.
:That being said, neither the Cole or Wadhwa articles have involved edit warring, there have been mostly productive discussions on improving the article on the talk page. By that math, in the past few days I've only been involved in 1 edit conflict, hardly "overdoing it" or "too much conflict". ] (]) 02:51, 18 February 2023 (UTC)


]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 23:30, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Tranarch, please review ]. This notification should be reviewed in context of, "''Notifications must be polite, neutrally worded with a neutral title, clear in presentation, and brief''". Additionally, you only notified one discussion board which could be seen as selective notification. Given the contentious nature of the subject area and the discussions in question please be more careful going forward and consider editing your notification. ] (]) 16:28, 18 February 2023 (UTC)


== Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment ==
:Spring, that has a neutral title and was politely worded, clear in presentation, and brief. The LGBT noticeboard is the obvious place for a question on what classifies as transgender rights, so I've no clue which other relevant noticeboards you think I didn't notify... It presented the discussion, and the context behind that discussion, that some editors objected solely based on their opinion on what rights trans people should have. Consensus now seems to be trans kids do indeed have a right to be respected in school and that the fringe insistence otherwise is odd and not based on more than opinion. ] (]) 17:16, 18 February 2023 (UTC)


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== Quick note ==


== Concerns with your edit ==
Hi @]. I have so much respect for you and think the work you do here is really important, but I would wholeheartedly recommend that you take it one article at a time and disengage from the distracting—and potentially disruptive—stuff. It is not worth it. The best thing you can do for ensuring these really difficult topics are well covered here is through sustained and laborious editorial process. Rather than exhausting yourself, focus on exhaustive NPOV sourcing (I know you already do), consensus building (even when it feels like an impossible task), and pushing forward with encyclopedic, quality content (even it means covering less topics). And know that you're not alone. There are numerous editors, myself included, who are willing to help. ] (]) 05:14, 18 February 2023 (UTC)


Hi, I have opened a discussion about concerns with your edit to Kenneth Zucker ]. Thanks. ] (]) 03:23, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
:@] thank you, that really means a lot to me! I generally try and take it at one or two articles at a time, it's just a pity that disruptive editing keeps me from actually working on improving or working on articles I'd like to and over-stretches me. I love when people give me honest feedback to improve an article and we can have productive discussions, and good-faith criticism of my work helps me and the encyclopedia improve, but sadly too often talk pages devolve into stopping POV pushing and whitewashing and I'm suddenly playing defense on multiple fronts. I've been focused nearly exclusively on the FAIR nonsense and advertification the past few days when I'd wanted to work on the ] and circle back on fixing up GAG. If you could take a look at the FAIR article and contribute your thoughts I'd greatly appreciate it! ] (]) 05:45, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 03:23, 9 January 2025

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User:YFNS

Luckily, no one has it yet. I think you could (and ought to) establish that account as a WP:VALIDSOCK to prevent a Doppelganger account situation, either with bad or clueless intent. There's no reason you shouldn't have it, and clear reasons you should. If it were me, I would create it and then immediately redirect the user page and Talk page to this account. I believe per VALIDSOCK you are supposed to mention it briefly on your user page somewhere, and then you are good. Good luck, Mathglot (talk) 22:55, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Glad you got there first. On a side note: I just found your Works page (nice bunch of articles!) and followed a few links just to see what I would learn. One of the pages (I forget which) then led me to Abby Stein, and what an interesting story she is! Would make an interesting topic for expansion for you, although at 93k and 184 refs, maybe it's already as mature as it needs to be. Anyway, an interesting read. I should do something like your Works page; I sometimes forget that I've worked on something, and meant to get back to it. I'll add that to my To-do list, which, since it already has aleph null items on it, won't get any longer by adding it. Mathglot (talk) 02:52, 25 July 2024 (UTC)
Thanks! I'd been meaning to split it from my main user page for a while. Updating it the other day reminded me I spent a few hours collating sources on WPATH a month or so ago and drafted a section that dissappeared due to a computer crash - gotta try and track them down again.
And absolutely, I hadn't recognized her until reading the article but when I did I realized we've been in each others peripheries for a while, 1) I think I've seen her speak at one or two marches before, 2) I've got a lot of friends who've been with Congregation Kolot Chayeinu, and 3) I've seen her story a few times before. Small world! I often joke: I'm not saying all trans people in NYC know each other, but I'm not not saying it.
I wish you all the best in creating one and would love to see it! Though I reckon at ~82k edits figuring out all the main ones will be a tall order lol. Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 18:12, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

link on your userpage broken

Hey, I just noticed the link on your userpage in the sidebar to your top edited pages is broken - should be this to work. Happy editing. Raladic (talk) 23:38, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Was your removal of my SOC links at WPATH an edit-conflict accident?

Hey there, just wanted to check if removal of those was just an accident before I add them back in if that was an edit conflict accident or intentional :) Raladic (talk) 21:13, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

@Raladic, yep, sorry about that lol. Just added them back in! Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 21:16, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
No worries, I figured that was probably it, happy editing :) Raladic (talk) 21:17, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hi Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist. Thank you for your work on Evaluation of Transsexual Surgery. Another editor, Mason7512, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Suggestion: expand legacy section to include modern understanding of content covered in report/debunking/reasoning behind the evolution of policy in 2014 (to prevent confusion on current status of report and inform)

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Mason7512}}. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

Mason7512 (talk) 01:03, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

AE notification

Notice of Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a report involving you at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement regarding a possible violation of an Arbitration Committee decision. The thread is Colin. Thank you.

Figured I'd notify you since like half the diffs involve you. Snokalok (talk) 22:53, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist/sandbox/Draft:Disinformation report

Hello YFNS, I just came across the article above . I believe that, in light of the advice you have received from HaeB and Svampesky at Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Newsroom/Submissions , as well as the earlier review by JPxG , and your editing restriction (0RR on articles for organizations/activists who are affiliated with anti-transgender activism or gender-critical feminism, broadly construed), I would urge you to withdraw the article from consideration (and publish off-wiki if you wish). starship.paint (RUN) 14:38, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

@Starship.paint Already did a while ago, I was getting mixed messages from different editorial board members about whether it would never be published or just needed more revisions and ended up giving up a few weeks ago. I think it's odd that somebody famous for misinformation about trans people edited about trans people for a decade and it's not more common knowledge. I've been looking for an alternative publisher, though I've been a bit too busy with work lately to look as hard as I'd like.
@Smallbones I asked a while ago if you had any ideas for alternative publishers, just pinging to see if you could offer any advice on that. Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 14:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
Okay YFNS, if you have withdrawn it, then perhaps User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist/sandbox/Draft:Disinformation report could be moved to somewhere in your sandbox. As currently it still seems to be up for review at Newsroom/Submissions. starship.paint (RUN) 15:14, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Margaret Nichols

FrieNeighSo: Out of curiosity, I looked at the article discussed above, rabbit-holed a bit, and it took me a long while to unravel all that had happened regarding a Margaret Nichols article since. I'm glad to see that the shenanigans had already been detected and are in the midst of being dealt with.

Having said that, the psychologist is currently listed at the disambiguation page Margaret Nichols, but as a link to Blanchard's transsexualism typology... where she is not mentioned at all, so not a proper disambiguation.

I don't know much/anything on these specific topics, so I'll leave it up to you whether the correct way of addressing this is to delete her (for now, until her article is revived) or to add her in some form to that typology article. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 15:35, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

@NatGertler thanks for reminding me about that! I was able to get the article undeleted/moved to Draft:Margaret Nichols (psychologist) and forgot to finish updating it. I don't have much experience writing about academics so fixing up the article's a different style than I'm used to - I'll ask for help at WP:WPWIR getting it fixed up again! I don't think she belongs in the typology article as she wasn't one of the more influential critics of the typology. Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 15:43, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

"User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist/sandbox/Draft:Disinformation report" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist/sandbox/Draft:Disinformation report has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 September 23 § User:Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist/sandbox/Draft:Disinformation report until a consensus is reached. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 02:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Question re: Boots theory

Are you familiar with any studies/articles that connect the theory with the econ concept of an inferior good? The topics feel quite related. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 01:14, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

@Red-tailed hawk Sadly not, it's been a while since I did an exhaustive search for sources for the article but I never saw the link made, and I didn't find one quickly looking for it now. I'll try and double back in the next few days and if I can't find anything more concretely tying it I'll make it a see also link! Best, Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 21:23, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

T rights tables, article info templates, and all that

Hi, YFNS. Noticed you archived a bunch of stuff recently (it needed it). A couple of things ended up in Archive 5, including § History/rights table and § Rebuilding the Tower of Babel, which included discussions about the rights tables (e.g. Trans articles by region2) as built by some of your templates like {{Regional articles}}, {{Article info}}, and {{For loop delimited}}. Not sure where you stand on integrating a table like the one we were discussing into the WikiProject, but I still hope to see it come to fruition. I think we also mentioned possibly platformifying it, so it could be used more generally by other projects. First step before we get to the latter, though, would be just doing the one you originally envisioned as T rights per country, and placing that somewhere at the WikiProject. I think we were very close, or maybe already there?

On a completely different note, but just since you like templating stuff, I've been working lately on {{Section length}} (with a lot of support from Trappist), and on the experimental page-views graph replacement template {{Xviews}} and its talk page cousin, {{Xreadership}}:

Daily pageviews of User talk:Your Friendly Neighborhood SociologistPageviews summary: size=91, age=105, days=60, min=0, max=144, latest=15. The pageviews file file is stale; please update it; see § Instructions.

You can see it in use at Talk:War guilt question, Talk:Woman, Talk:World War II, or any of these. If you have any bot-writing skills, I need a bot to help automate the data retrieval part. Mathglot (talk) 22:37, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Mathglot, thanks for reaching out! I was going to start another threat linking them all and am glad you beat me to it lol.
I'd still like to get the table up and running and haven't had the time to fix it - the issue with it was it contained too many features and exceeded the function call limit when the tables weren't really small. I'm thinking that the languages were what tripped it up, which is a shame because the crosswiki referencing was one of the most important features to my mind. I'll block out some time for it next weekend to try and get it working!
The new templates are really cool! My only note would be Section length should have a wordcount flag. I think I've seen it in the wild in a few places but can't remember where lol. Alas, I've no experience with Misplaced Pages bots though I wish I did. Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 18:31, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
Word count is a pet peeve of mine, and the source of endless disputes at WP:Article size. Existing tools are massively off (I'll link an old discussion somewhere if I can find it, where our 3rd longest article, something like 720kb raw, came in at 45 words per the tool). Anyway, I have been thinking about a replacement for word count and we can easily beat the existing tool by light-years without being perfect; it is doable as a template, although a module would be better. As a first approximation: strip templates and html comments, convert contiguous blanks to one blank, return the count the blanks.
As to WP:Template limits, I assume you are familiar with WP:PEIS. This is very likely the limit you are running into, and it could be that long tables would have to be chunked and collapsed. Iirc, only the expanded ones contribute to PEIS, so if you collapse them all, and leave instructions in the doc to only expand one at a time, I think that works. (Otherwise, place on separate subpages and link them with indexing letters, A-D, E-H, etc., or maybe by continent?) The {{Xviews}} template addresses template limits directly for the same reason, and explains how to fine-tune the parameters to avoid exceeding it. Mathglot (talk) 19:12, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
Maybe word count is better now. Just noticed WT:Prosesize#Now uses prosesize toolforge tool for word counts but haven't tested it. Mathglot (talk) 19:23, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Dealing with slow tables like T rights

I always had a concern with the T rights table and other such slow-loading tables (e.g., Trans articles by region2 loads in 6.15 seconds), and how best to incorporate them, without slowing down every page view, for folks that might not even be interested in that part of the page, and also, without precluding the possibility of adding other complex tables to the page without blowing it up. I don't know if the slow-load issue was a contributing factor in your thinking not to incorporate the table yet, but if it was, I have a solution: implement the table on a standalone subpage, screenshot it to Commons, then add the image file to the page as a static thumbnail, and |link= it to the subpage. (Or, just link it; but I think the screenshot gives the user an idea what to expect.) This keeps the main page loading fast, and requires one click to get to the table. To view a RW example of this genre, see WP:WikiProject Countries#Sections, and also the § Size section right after it. Mathglot (talk) 08:59, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

@Mathglot I'll come back to this in a few days, as I do like the gist of the idea, but me and some friends were gay/transbashed a few days ago and I still have a headache (got my head thrown to the ground and kicked in and needed some stitches) and am to avoid screens per doctors orders for a while longer (we're all relatively ok, alive without visible concussions, and no injuries were critical). Today's the first day my sleep schedules gone mostly back to normal since it happened at midnight and we were in the hospital til morning. Honestly just typing this is getting me shaking again, and I only edited today because I saw some editors trying to defend conversion therapists - fuck this godawful site... Hope you're doing well - we are going to finally roll out these tables soon lol - this incident has temporarily taken me out of commission but the vim and vigors gonna double! Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 18:53, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
Oh, no! I was saddened and outraged by this news. I hope that you (and your friends) are on the mend. Keeping this short for your health; talk soon. Mathglot (talk) 02:28, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
geez. Major hugs, hope you're doing ok (for the circumstances) --Licks-rocks (talk) 17:06, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
May your recovery be fast and complete, and may things get better in general. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 17:21, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Reasonable notification

If you are going to notify projects you should also notify editors involved with the prior discussions. Please do to avoid any appearance of canvasing. Springee (talk) 23:18, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

I have notified the other 3 people that were part of the prior conversation that were not already involved in this new one.
I don't think canvassing was intended on YFNS's part and she simply notified the relevant WikiProject covering the topic. But in any case, as I mentioned, I now took care of notifying the other 3 are aware of it if they would like to participate in the new conversation. Raladic (talk) 23:44, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
Thank you. Fwiw, I'd pinged the relevant editors with this comment lol Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 23:52, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

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Quality of the Trans Kids Deserve Better draft

Hi, do you think that the stub is good enough to be reviewed for inclusion in the mainspace? It's the very first time I have ever created the article on Misplaced Pages and I can't help myself when I want our article to go live! Antitransphobe (talk) 20:18, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello again! :)

Hey!

I finally set up the broader Housing and Tenant Rights WikiProject if you're interested in joining! We already have a couple members and think it'll end being really useful as a space to gather the documentation for respective cities tenant histories and their rent strikes. Especially in the way that they intersect with each other. Overall I'm very excited. Feel free to add your name if you'd like to join.

Nice to talk to you again.

Best, LoomCreek (talk) 04:25, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

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CS1 error on Memorandum of Understanding on Conversion Therapy.

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Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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WP:OUTING

OUTING explicitly covers personal profiles on external sites. If you have private evidence of COI editing there is WP:COIVRT for handling that. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:46, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish since my original comment was revdelled, can you please confirm for the record that I did not 1) link to his external profile or 2) even state what it was? I referenced and linked to an on-wiki discussion where another editor, also without linking, asked him to disclose he was pushing for a source that cited himself in a discussion where he left dozens of comments (and the talk page I referenced still has the exact same vague info I was accused of outing for).
Unrelatedly, could you please revert this reversion with a misleading summary: the removed information is covered by almost every source in the article and definitely the three it was cited to. Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 16:46, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
You stated that the link contained a connection to their offsite profile with enough information to snoop it out. That is a violation of OUTING. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
@ScottishFinnishRadish Thanks for handling the vandalism! TBH, I'm concerned that me linking an on-wiki discussion about his COI ( that I did not participate in - though I participated in the broader one I didn't for the COI bit) is being called outing, but the original discussion still has the same exact information and is still up. On one of the highest trafficked talk pages I've seen in GENSEX, that IIRC has a few admins watching it. I am frankly very confused why I was revdelled but the original was not.
I would link to the discussion and quote the other editor to prove I didn't go further then she did, but for fairly obvious reasons won't lol. I would appreciate 1) some acknowledgement that I was in fact quoting/paraphrasing a public on-wiki discussion about his COI without more info than was there and 2) some admins giving him a note at AE to watch the COI.
P.S. I'd missed it, but congrats on becoming an arb! And my condolences lol. I am both very happy to see you there and sorry for all the headaches it'll cause. Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 17:19, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
I can't read the diff anymore because it was OSd, but if you direct me via email to where it is mentioned I can clear it up, revdel, and request OS, or you could just email the info to WP:OS. It shouldn't be visible. Admins who aren't functionaries can't take off-wiki evidence into account, which is why there's a private VRT queue for COI, so unless it is publicly disclosed we can't really do anything at AE about that. I still have a few weeks before my new hat is ready, so I don't have the power to do anything about it right now. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:31, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
@ScottishFinnishRadish Just sent the email! Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 19:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
(talk page stalker)Hi all, I actually also have access to some off-wiki information regarding this editor which I have absolutely not put anywhere on Misplaced Pages nor will I. I'd honestly planned on just sitting on it but, in light of the Raladic arb enforcement case, I am afraid it might have some relevance. But it's not about a CoI so much as it is about off-wiki activities related to Misplaced Pages. If I decide this is appropriate to share with arbitrators (still very much on the fence about it) would it go to the same email address as CoI? Simonm223 (talk) 19:25, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
I'd say email it to arbcom, SFR, and the other admins at the AE case (pending confirmation from SFR that's the right move). You will not be the first to have done so by far, but who knows it might help.
If anything I'd say its an open secret. Good on you for not mentioning onwiki. If you recall the story of the emperor's new clothes - on Misplaced Pages the boy's outburst would be considered a worse crime than the emperor's public indecency. Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 19:41, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Don't email regular admins, since they can't use private evidence of off-wiki activities. Send it up to Arbcom if it's not COI related, and send it to COIVRT if it is COI related. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks - that's what I thought but I wanted to make sure I got it right with this. As I said I really don't know if it's something I should share. And as such, if I do come to the point of deciding it's relevant I want to be very confident I'm handling it appropriately. Simonm223 (talk) 20:06, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

No truth, only beauty

There's an amusingly postmodern sense in anti-trans spaces, it seems, that their disinformation and disregard for evidence-based practice is just fine and dandy because what matters isn't material reality so much as their aesthetic preconceptions. "Who cares about suicide rates among trans youth when somebody might see a penis where it wasn't expected?" I suspect a lot of this "but can SEGM REALLY be fringe" stuff comes from the same basis.

The problem is that, once someone has taken as a given that there is no materiality only discourse, arguing with them ends up being like nailing jello to the wall. This is to say, I see your frustrations regarding the pushback on SEGM and, as much as I really don't want to have that argument with anyone, I still salute your effort. Simonm223 (talk) 19:45, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Absolutely. I do find it amazing how objectively/materially false statements about trans people (kids are catching trans from the internet, most kids grow out of it, it's "too easy" for kids to transition) are being framed as a difference of opinion.
The discourse note is particularly interesting - it's a known feature and not a bug of SEGM/GETA/Genspect they focus on pumping out copious amounts of bullshit. They change the dominant discourse, to change the material conditions, to change the discourse, and on and on. Hegemony at it's finest. Not the medical discourse of course, the popular medical discourse. If no major medical organization buys your bullshit, you can easily sidestep all scientific rigour for the appearance of it, get the Economist to quote you, and appear before judges. As soon as you start looking at actual facts and RS it all falls apart - hence the fact certain editors who push these ideologies consistently fail, though waste everybody's time to do it.
Thanks for the salute, wish I could just edit and people didn't feel a need to do so though lol. I came here to fill in info, thinking the systemic bias was just a lack of coverage, not an editing environment very tolerant of civil pseudoscience pushing. But, likewise, I've seen, appreciate, and salute your own efforts across the site. Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 02:26, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
I've even seen "well the supreme court of the USA and the Economist" used as an argument in favour of including TERF nonsense on this website. Literally those two things together. It's... it's demoralizing. It's so easy for Misplaced Pages to deal with nazis but because the UK press decided, "let's all shit on trans women" we're just stuck with all this bullshit. And people wonder why I'm against using newsmedia on this project. Simonm223 (talk) 19:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
It'd be funny if it wasn't so depressing... A quick comeback if you want it is
  1. US v Skrmetti has every single medical org in the US supporting trans healthcare facing a bunch of Evangelical organizations
  2. RS do quote blatantly FRINGE groups making arguments before the supreme court, and they're still fringe - here is the Alliance Defending Freedom being quoted by the NYT in a piece on Obergefell v. Hodges
Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 20:14, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
I think I just said that neither the Economist nor the Supreme court was operating within their area of specialty and as such their opinions were undue. XD. Simonm223 (talk) 20:16, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks and good luck

Hey there, just wanted to send you a brief note. Thanks for your continued effort in trying to help curtail anti-trans misinformation. Sad it fell on deaf ears. This had honestly taken too much of a mental toll, so I'm taking a step back. Raladic (talk) 21:23, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

@Raladic I am very sad to see you go - been feeling down since I saw your message - but understand all too well. Thank you - you've done a lot more than me, have put up with this bullshit longer than I have, and absolutely deserve a break. I'm really hoping to see you back here soon but simply hope things get less stressful for you. I'm proud to call you one of the friends I've made on this hellsite; please reach out to talk/vent and if you're ever in NYC hit me up, first round/joint/meals on me! Your Friendly Neighborhood Sociologist ⚧ Ⓐ (talk) 02:07, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

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Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

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Your GA nomination of Transgender health care misinformation

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Transgender health care misinformation you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Dan Leonard -- Dan Leonard (talk) 01:02, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Transgender health care misinformation

The article Transgender health care misinformation you nominated as a good article has failed ; see Talk:Transgender health care misinformation for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Dan Leonard -- Dan Leonard (talk) 03:25, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment

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Concerns with your edit

Hi, I have opened a discussion about concerns with your edit to Kenneth Zucker on this talk page. Thanks. Zenomonoz (talk) 03:23, 9 January 2025 (UTC)