| Revision as of 06:37, 3 May 2023 editIskandar323 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers47,651 edits →Not a militant group: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit |
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== Vishal mourya == |
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==Lead== |
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*The controversies involving BD are covered in the article. No need to try to make a statement in the lead. Is there any guideline related to which statement can be added in the lead and which can not? See this: . I think Misplaced Pages as a source of neutral POV should have the same standards? thoughts? {{ping|RegentsPark}} <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </small> |
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*During earlier months, someone replaced "militant" with "extremist" and this edit was overlooked, then someone added "militant" again by putting sources. Even after that, "extremist" is unsourced and a forbidden term. Removed extremist per ]. While numerous editors have already noted the problems with "militant" term, I agree because more reliable sources describe Bajrang Dal as "paramilitary" organisation of VHP. ] (]) 18:46, 12 December 2017 (UTC) |
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::Nope.Nobody except some famed POV pushers have expressed any problem.Please read through all of the sources.I've thus partially reverted.Will be looking more, once I get to a PC.]<sup>]</sup> 19:10, 12 December 2017 (UTC) |
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::{{Re|D4iNa4}}-I checked Ref-5,6,7&8.All of them uses the word ''militant''.]<sup>]</sup> 19:27, 12 December 2017 (UTC) |
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::Ref 1,2 and 3(??) support ''paramiltary''. ]<sup>]</sup> 19:37, 12 December 2017 (UTC) |
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*I'm not totally sure I know what bajrang dal is, but if reliable sources generally say they are militant, then so should we. And if numerous reliable sources say so, we should do so in the lead. Also, D4iNa4, you've been around long enough to know better than to make ] arguments! --] <small>(])</small> 19:45, 12 December 2017 (UTC) |
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::{{ping|RegentsPark}} That ] argument was made by Gauravsaral , I have now signed his comment to avoid confusions. ] (]) 17:45, 21 February 2018 (UTC) |
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:::Ah. Ok. Thanks for the update on that. --] <small>(])</small> 18:11, 21 February 2018 (UTC) |
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*What RegentsPark said, pretty much. I ''have'' read a good few of the sources about the BD, and they virtually all describe it as militant. ] (]) 19:52, 12 December 2017 (UTC) |
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:*I have found dozens of scholarly sources from far more reliable publishers like Cambridge University, Routledge, Pearson, and all of them describe Bajrang Dal as "paramilitary". It means that they are more commonly and reliably described as paramilitary. The sources added by Tyler Durden(soon blocked) were also websites. Militant is much broader term, Bajrang Dal doesn't advocate violence, so it is not a militant organization. RegentsPark There was similar discussion on ] before which is also described as militant by their critics but it doesn't make them one. ] (]) 20:06, 12 December 2017 (UTC) |
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::::{{ping|RegentsPark}} The I was referring above. I don't see a reason to omit "paramilitary" since it fits the description of Bajrang Dal much better than militant. Also the sources I pointed above that support paramilitary are:, though I am seeing that they are described mostly commonly as "''youth wing''" ] (]) 20:35, 12 December 2017 (UTC) |
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::::: D4, Being a "youth wing" does not preclude it from being militant or extremist. You are not reading the sources you cite. For example, your very first source says "{{tq|perpetrators of some of the most spectacular campaigns of violence}}". And you think this proves they are not militant? You are out of your mind! -- ] (]) 01:11, 13 December 2017 (UTC) |
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:::::::: Per the sources, there are many other ways to describe them. That was the point. Violence is not limited to militants. ] (]) |
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*:::::I'll let you all sort this out. Though, imo, a paramilitary arm of an organization is, by definition, militant (paramilitaries are militant). --] <small>(])</small> 00:57, 13 December 2017 (UTC) |
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*::::::The word ] has more to do with ] than ]. When it comes to BD, the use of the word "militant" is mostly limited with referring the branch, "militant wing", than calling BD a militant. Now back to militia, Christophe Jaffrelot mentions Bajrang Dal as "militia", belonging to a "militant wing" of Vishva Hindu Parishad. BD is termed as militia by other sources as well. To make the lead more meaningful, "X is a Catholic organization of the religious wing of X foundation"(just an example) would work better. ] (]) 10:00, 13 December 2017 (UTC) |
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*There's no shortage of reliable sources that describe BD as a paramilitary organization either (here are a few that I dug up, apart from the sources above). I concur entirely with D4 and Lorstaking. —]<sup>]</sup> 05:23, 14 December 2017 (UTC) |
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*I think describing it as militant is more appropriate as compared to describing it as extremist. Militant usually implies that an organisation is willing to use direct action or violence to achieve its goals (whether the goals are extremist or not). Extremist is generally used for thoughts which are at the extreme of the political spectrum.--] (]) 03:44, 14 December 2017 (UTC) |
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::Since last few days, the discussion is only about ''militant'' or ''paramilitary''. ] (]) 04:52, 15 December 2017 (UTC) |
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:::My apologies, as I read the initial part of the discussion. In context of militant vs paramilitary, Bajrang Dal is militant but not a paramilitary force. An example of a paramilitary force in recent times has been ]. Bajrang Dal does not have the same discipline and organisation structure required for a paramilitary force.--] (]) 07:42, 17 December 2017 (UTC) |
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*{{collapse top|Re-instating a list of sources by a '''blocked sock''', in support of the qualifier:- ''militant'', in my own capacity, since they ought to improve the discussion over here.]</span><sup>]</span></sup> 14:20, 15 December 2017 (UTC)}} |
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Apart from these sources<ref name="Jaffrelot2010">{{cite book|author=Christophe Jaffrelot|title=Religion, Caste, and Politics in India|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=XAO3i_gS61wC&pg=PR23|year=2010|publisher=Primus Books|isbn=978-93-80607-04-7|pages=23–}}</ref><ref name="JoshySeethi2015">{{cite book|author1=P. M. Joshy|author2=K. M. Seethi|title=State and Civil Society under Siege: Hindutva, Security and Militarism in India|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=RxuJCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT119|date=8 October 2015|publisher=SAGE Publications|isbn=978-93-5150-383-5|pages=119–}}</ref> that are cited in the article, here are a bunch of sources<ref name="Katju2003">{{cite book|author=Manjari Katju|title=Vishva Hindu Parishad and Indian Politics|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=b70nKb-8YuMC&pg=PA52|year=2003|publisher=Orient Blackswan|isbn=978-81-250-2476-7|pages=52–}}</ref><ref name="Wilkinson2005">{{cite book|author=Steven Wilkinson|title=Religious Politics and Communal Violence|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=1uZtAAAAMAAJ|year=2005|publisher=Oxford University Press|page=310|isbn=978-0-19-567237-4|quote= In the summer of 1984, Vinay Katiya, an RSS pracharak, formed the Bajrang Dal in Uttar Pradesh as a militant youth wing of the VHP...}}</ref><ref name="DossaniRowen2005">{{cite book|author1=Rafiq Dossani|author2=Henry S. Rowen|title=Prospects for Peace in South Asia|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=TwO9zmj6aQ0C&pg=PA202|year=2005|publisher=Stanford University Press|isbn=978-0-8047-5085-1|pages=202–|chapter=7. Hindu Nationalism and the BJP: Transforming Religion and Politics in India --- Robert L. Hardgrave, Jr.}}</ref><ref name="Agency2016">{{cite book|author=Central Intelligence Agency|title=The CIA World Factbook 2017|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=qf6LDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA400|date=22 November 2016|publisher=Skyhorse Publishing|isbn=978-1-5107-1289-8|pages=400–}}</ref><ref name="BussRedburn2006">{{cite book|author1=Terry F. Buss|author2=F. Stevens Redburn|author3=Kristina Guo|title=Modernizing Democracy: Innovations in Citizen Participation|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=vsQ5H0225YkC&pg=PA296|year=2006|publisher=M.E. Sharpe|isbn=978-0-7656-2180-1|pages=296–}}</ref><ref name="Ghassem-Fachandi2012">{{cite book|author=Parvis Ghassem-Fachandi|title=Pogrom in Gujarat: Hindu Nationalism and Anti-Muslim Violence in India|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=p5s8hooZfekC&pg=PA31|year=2012|publisher=Princeton University Press|isbn=0-691-15177-6|pages=31–}}</ref><ref name="LubinJr2010">{{cite book|author1=Timothy Lubin|author2=Donald R. Davis Jr|author3=Jayanth K. Krishnan|title=Hinduism and Law: An Introduction|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=MtuhClbfL7EC&pg=PA236|date=21 October 2010|publisher=Cambridge University Press|isbn=978-1-139-49358-1|pages=236–}}</ref><ref name="Bauman2015">{{cite book|author=Chad M. Bauman|title=Pentecostals, Proselytization, and Anti-Christian Violence in Contemporary India|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=DoFxBgAAQBAJ&pg=PT15|date=2 February 2015|publisher=Oxford University Press|isbn=978-0-19-026631-8|pages=15–}}</ref><ref name="Basu2015">{{cite book|author=Amrita Basu|title=Violent Conjunctures in Democratic India|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=TTrjCQAAQBAJ&pg=PA164|date=30 June 2015|publisher=Cambridge University Press|isbn=978-1-107-08963-1|pages=164–}}</ref><ref name="Eko2016">{{cite book|author=Lyombe Eko|title=The Regulation of Sex-Themed Visual Imagery: From Clay Tablets to Tablet Computers|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=nIsYDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA77|date=29 April 2016|publisher=Palgrave Macmillan US|isbn=978-1-137-55098-9|pages=77–}}</ref><ref name="Mankekar1999">{{cite book|author=Purnima Mankekar|title=Screening Culture, Viewing Politics: An Ethnography of Television, Womanhood, and Nation in Postcolonial India|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=fZf8wmVdpaIC&pg=PA179|year=1999|publisher=Duke University Press|isbn=0-8223-2390-7|pages=179–}}</ref><ref name="Committee2006">{{cite book|author=Great Britain: Parliament: House of Commons: Foreign Affairs Committee|title=Human Rights Annual Report 2005: First Report of Session 2005-06; Report, Together with Formal Minutes, Oral and Written Evidence|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=XzHH_ZdB4WoC&pg=PA88|date=23 February 2006|publisher=The Stationery Office|isbn=978-0-215-02759-7|pages=88–}}</ref><ref name="Watch2003">{{cite book|author=Human Rights Watch|title=Human Rights Watch World Report, 2003|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=oFmIOWMjYhsC&pg=PA237|year=2003|publisher=Human Rights Watch|isbn=978-1-56432-285-2|pages=237–}}</ref><ref name="KochanekHardgrave2007">{{cite book|author1=Stanley A. Kochanek|author2=Robert L. Hardgrave|title=India: Government and Politics in a Developing Nation|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=pSyRgcSQhuIC&pg=PT218|date=30 January 2007|publisher=Cengage Learning|isbn=0-495-00749-8|pages=218–}}</ref> that describe BD as "militant". |
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::I think, a RFC shall be the way forward, with the details of all the sources provided for ''both'' the words, presented in a suitable form.''Extremist'' seems to be currently out of contest, though!]</span><sup>]</span></sup> 14:19, 15 December 2017 (UTC) |
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Jai shree Ram ] (]) 12:23, 24 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Not a militant group == |
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== Love jihad == |
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it is wrong to use the word Militant organizantion.The claim is baseless. ] (]) 03:05, 3 May 2023 (UTC) |
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:ITS NOT A MILITANT GRP , ANTI HINDU FORCES TRYING TO MALIGN THE IMAGE FUNDED BY WEST ] (]) 06:17, 3 May 2023 (UTC) |
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One Muslim person is affair with hindu girls ] (]) 10:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC) |
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::More than militant, some sources would call it a terrorist group, including in fact. ] (]) 06:37, 3 May 2023 (UTC) |
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