| Revision as of 11:50, 25 September 2023 editZhanzhao (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users5,619 edits →The first superhero← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 12:56, 8 January 2025 edit undoErik (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, File movers, Mass message senders, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers100,714 editsm Reverted edit by 2601:C2:1A80:BCC0:B907:6931:515D:9468 (talk) to last version by MrOllieTag: Rollback |
| (42 intermediate revisions by 25 users not shown) |
| Line 1: |
Line 1: |
|
{{Skip to talk}} |
|
{{Skip to talk}} |
|
|
{{Talk header}} |
|
{{Talk header|archive_age=3|archive_units=months|archive_bot=lowercase sigmabot III}} |
|
|
{{Vital article|level=4|topic=Art|class=B}} |
|
|
{{American English}} |
|
{{American English}} |
|
|
{{Article history |
|
{{ArticleHistory |
|
|
|action1=FAC |
|
|action1=FAC |
|
|action1date=15:01, 15 Dec 2003 |
|
|action1date=15:01, 15 Dec 2003 |
| Line 31: |
Line 30: |
|
|otd1date=2004-06-01|otd1oldid=3963270|otd2date=2005-06-01|otd2oldid=14611522|otd3date=2006-06-01|otd3oldid=56035257|otd4date=2012-04-18|otd4oldid=487887885|otd5date=2013-04-18|otd5oldid=550895649|otd6date=2015-04-18|otd6oldid=656715845|otd7date=2016-04-18|otd7oldid=715660737|otd8date=2017-04-18|otd8oldid=775979726|otd9date=2018-04-18|otd9oldid=836914078|otd10date=2021-04-18|otd10oldid=1018530236 |
|
|otd1date=2004-06-01|otd1oldid=3963270|otd2date=2005-06-01|otd2oldid=14611522|otd3date=2006-06-01|otd3oldid=56035257|otd4date=2012-04-18|otd4oldid=487887885|otd5date=2013-04-18|otd5oldid=550895649|otd6date=2015-04-18|otd6oldid=656715845|otd7date=2016-04-18|otd7oldid=715660737|otd8date=2017-04-18|otd8oldid=775979726|otd9date=2018-04-18|otd9oldid=836914078|otd10date=2021-04-18|otd10oldid=1018530236 |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
{{WikiProject banner shell|1= |
|
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|1= |
|
{{WikiProject Film|class=b|American-task-force=yes|Comics=yes| b1=yes| b2=yes| b3=yes| b4=yes| b5=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject Film|American-task-force=yes|Comics=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject Comics|class=b|importance=Top|portal1-name=Comics|portal1-link=Featured article/2|US-work-group=yes|DC-work-group=yes|Superman-work-group=yes| b1=yes| b2=yes| b3=yes| b4=yes| b5=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject Comics|importance=Top|portal1-name=Comics|portal1-link=Featured article/2|US-work-group=yes|DC-work-group=yes|Superman-work-group=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject Cleveland|class=b|importance=mid}} |
|
{{WikiProject Cleveland|importance=mid}} |
|
{{WikiProject Ohio|class=b|importance=Low}} |
|
{{WikiProject Ohio|importance=Low}} |
|
{{WikiProject Fictional characters|class=b|importance=top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Fictional characters}} |
|
{{WikiProject Media franchises|class=b|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Media franchises|importance=Top}} |
|
{{WikiProject Canada|selected-article=y|class=B|importance=low}} |
|
{{WikiProject Canada|importance=low}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject United States|importance=top|USfilm=yes|USfilm-importance=Top}} |
|
{{WP1.0|v0.5=pass|class=B|importance=High|category=Everydaylife|VA=yes| b1=yes| b2=yes| b3=yes| b4=yes| b5=yes| b6=yes}} |
|
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
|
{{User:MiszaBot/config |
|
|archiveheader = {{talkarchivenav|noredlinks=y}} |
|
|archiveheader = {{talkarchivenav|noredlinks=y}} |
|
|maxarchivesize = 125K |
|
|maxarchivesize = 125K |
|
|counter = 7 |
|
|counter = 8 |
|
|minthreadsleft = 4 |
|
|minthreadsleft = 4 |
|
|algo = old(90d) |
|
|algo = old(90d) |
| Line 57: |
Line 56: |
|
|
|
|
|
<!-- Metadata: see ] --> |
|
<!-- Metadata: see ] --> |
|
|
|
|
== Superman Copyright == |
|
|
|
|
|
Hi! |
|
|
|
|
|
Wanted to chat a bit more about that copyright. United States works enter copyright every year on January 1, and they do not enter on a rolling basis through the year. You're right that they expire on January 1 and not on December 31. |
|
|
|
|
|
In 2023, works from 1927 entered the public domain following a full 95 years worth of time since that year. Since Superman was first introduced in a work published in 1938, he will have to wait a full 95 years after 1938 to become public domain in the United States. Using the difference of 96 between 1927 and 2023, this means that Superman would enter the public domain in 2034 in the United States. I didn't want to just revert your edit, and I appreciate abiding by the citation. |
|
|
|
|
|
With all that said, what are your thoughts on changing the copyright date to January 1, 2034 with a note for American copyright? ] (]) 18:44, 5 June 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
:{{reply to|MonkeyBBGB}} Cite me the law which says that all copyrights start and end on January 1. I researched copyright law quite carefully when I wrote this article. Also, in ''The Law for Comic Creators'' by Joe Sergi, he says that the copyright for Superman will expire in 2033. He's lawyer, so he should know what he's talking about. ] (]) 19:12, 5 June 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
:: of and of ] lay out the terms for works from before 1978. Section § 304 states that "Any copyright, the first term of which is subsisting on January 1, 1978, shall endure for 28 years from the date it was originally secured." This would be the initial 28 year term that Superman's original comic from 1938 had. Following its renewal in 1966, it would then qualify for a 28 year term renewal under copyright law at the time. However, under the revised § 304 this would be 75 years under 1976's law and 95 years under the further revised 1998 law. This manifests as "the copyright shall endure for a renewed and extended further term of 67 years". Further, "Any copyright still in its renewal term at the time that the becomes effective shall have a copyright term of 95 years from the date copyright was originally secured." |
|
|
::Add to this that Section § 305 states that "All terms of copyright provided by sections 302 through 304 run to the end of the calendar year in which they would otherwise expire." 95 years from 1938 is 2033, and the comic was published in April, 1938. With that addition, Superman would be covered for the full duration of 95 years and then the rest of the calendar year from 1938. This effectively means that Superman's copyright expires at 11:59 and 59 seconds PM on December 31, 2033, or January 1, 2034. |
|
|
::So I guess 2033 is technically correct in the slimmest terms, but effectively Superman will become public domain in 2034. ] (]) 19:44, 5 June 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
== Fictional character biography Missing == |
|
|
|
|
|
How come this article doesn't have a Fictional character biography like Batman or Wonder Woman or many other comic book characters? |
|
|
|
|
|
https://en.wikipedia.org/Batman#Fictional_character_biography |
|
|
|
|
|
https://en.wikipedia.org/Wonder_Woman#Fictional_character_biography ] (]) 19:49, 8 June 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
:To avoid fancruft. It used to have one but I deleted it. ] (]) 20:29, 8 June 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
::Why isn't Martha listed as a parent ] (]) 18:12, 30 July 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
:::Frome the lede: {{tq|He was found and adopted by farmers ], who named him '''Clark Kent'''.}} ] (]) 19:35, 30 July 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
== Semi-protected edit request on 29 June 2023 == |
|
|
|
|
|
{{edit semi-protected|Superman|answered=yes}} |
|
|
add missing word "to" by changing "and he decided use his powers to fight crime" to "and he decided to use his powers to fight crime" ] (]) 19:04, 29 June 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
:] '''Already done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 20:38, 29 June 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
==Quickrunfast== |
|
|
{{ping|Quickrunfast}} Superman wasn't much inspired by Jewish mythology. I read every interview with Siegel and Shuster I could find and they never went into Jewish mythology, and they were quite open about their creative process. Also, the persecution of Jews in Germany didn't inspire any specific aspect of Superman. ] (]) 14:30, 3 July 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
:Respectfully, there's been quite a few books that were dedicated to the topic and the quote that I cite is real and says just that. The updated also removed the myth of Superman as Ubermensch (since that was lex Luther). ] (]) 22:09, 3 July 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
::Also, sometimes people forget that the "Old Testament" is Jewish — so there's the Moses story origin myth, Samson strength, "kal-el," and the later Jewish myth of Golem. ] (]) 02:13, 4 July 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
{{ping|Quickrunfast}} When I researched for this article a few years ago, I was very interested in this very topic and looked hard for hard evidence and didn't find any. All I could find to support it was speculative stuff by writers who were arguing from circumstantial evidence. Simcha Weinstein was one of these. He's a rabbi and I suspect he was trying to make Judaism look cool by arguing Superman is Jewish. He pointed out circumstantial things such as the similarities with the Moses myth and the name Kal-El possibly being Hebrew. But I wanted hard evidence, namely something Siegel or Shuster said in an interview, and I didn't find any. What's more, Siegel and Shuster weren't practicing Jews. They both married Christian women. When I emailed Simcha Weinstein for comment, he just brushed me off, he didn't want to argue with me. |
|
|
|
|
|
Simply citing a book is not enough to validate a claim. You can find a citation to support anything if you're not discerning. In fact, I found citation to refute the Judaism connection: in Les Daniels' 1998 book, he wrote: {{quote|"There are parallel stories in many cultures, but what is significant is that Siegel, working in the generally patronized medium of the comics, had created a secular American messiah. Nothing of the kind was consciously on his mind, apparently: his explanation for dropping Superman down from the sky was that "it just happened that way."And Shuster echoed him: "We just thought it was a good idea."}} See what I mean? ] (]) 12:14, 4 July 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
:Again, I did cite an article that contained a quote from one of the *creators of Superman*. |
|
|
:Suspecting that one author is trying to make look "Jews look cool" is unsupported and (essentially) an ad hominem attack based on the authors identity. Even if we suppose you are true, it still does not invalidate what the creators have said — surely they are the authority on the subject of their creation, right. |
|
|
:If you have have evidence to the contrary, please feel free to add. ] (]) 14:59, 24 August 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Missing tv appearances == |
|
== Missing tv appearances == |
| Line 112: |
Line 64: |
|
|
|
|
|
:] ] (]) 19:41, 19 September 2023 (UTC) |
|
:] ] (]) 19:41, 19 September 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
::Are you being sarcastic. How can a IP user fix it without having permission to edit semi-protected articles. Be for real woman. ] (]) 11:36, 31 May 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
== The first superhero == |
|
== The first superhero == |
| Line 123: |
Line 76: |
|
::::Okay find a better source than Guinness book of world records that says Ogon Bat and Mandrake the Magician were the first superheroes that have superpowers. ] (]) 09:55, 24 September 2023 (UTC) |
|
::::Okay find a better source than Guinness book of world records that says Ogon Bat and Mandrake the Magician were the first superheroes that have superpowers. ] (]) 09:55, 24 September 2023 (UTC) |
|
::::@] and I'm not saying that Superman was the first superhero, I'm using the word "major". Just saying that he can be considered the first "major" superhero ever created. ] (]) 09:58, 24 September 2023 (UTC) |
|
::::@] and I'm not saying that Superman was the first superhero, I'm using the word "major". Just saying that he can be considered the first "major" superhero ever created. ] (]) 09:58, 24 September 2023 (UTC) |
|
:::::@] "Major" needs to be defined then. If we take the meaning of "significant" or "important", arguably Doc Savage fits the bill being seemingly the inspiration for many of the characteristics Superman is known for (the article did mention the creators were heavily inspired by prevailing pulp magazines). Doc Savage's real name is Clark Savage Jr., his nickname is the Man of Bronze and he was originally billed as “Superman", and even has a secret base -- which is located in the far-off Arctic -- known as the Fortress of Solitude. IMHO to make the lede more accurate, Superman should actually be credited as the first '''COMIC BOOK''' superhero with superpowers. Doc Savage actually preceded Superman, debuting originally in its own Doc Savage Magazine in 1933, then a 1934 radio teleseries in 1934, and only appeared in comic form in 1940. ----] (]) 11:50, 25 September 2023 (UTC) |
|
:::::@] "Major" needs to be defined then. If we take the meaning of "significant" or "important", arguably Doc Savage fits the bill being seemingly the inspiration for many of the characteristics Superman is known for (the article did mention the creators were heavily inspired by prevailing pulp magazines). Doc Savage's real name is Clark Savage Jr., his nickname is the Man of Bronze and he was originally billed as “Superman", and even has a secret base -- which is located in the far-off Arctic -- known as the Fortress of Solitude. IMHO to make the lede more accurate, Superman should actually be credited as the first '''COMIC BOOK''' superhero with superpowers. Doc Savage actually preceded Superman, debuting originally in its own Doc Savage Magazine in 1933, then a 1934 radio teleseries in 1934, and only appeared in comic form in 1940. And then there's the obscure ], an actual comicstrip hero with superstrength from the 1920s....----] (]) 11:50, 25 September 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
::::::Doesn't matter if Doc Savage preceded Superman or not because Doc Savage is not considered a superhero. Hugo Hercules's superstrength is not really same as superpowers. Many examples of superpowers are Telekinesis, Teleportation, X-ray vision, Phasing, Telepathy, Atmokinesis, Shapeshifting and many other so just having superstrength is like simply having strength so it shouldn't even be considered a superpower and even a common man have strength it means that he has superpowers? Absolutely not. I have a very reliable source (Guinness world records) that says Superman was the first superhero with superpowers here's the source .Find a better source than Guinness world records that says Hugo Hercules was the first superhero with superpowers. ] (]) 14:44, 25 September 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
::::::: IF that isn't considered a super-power.... But digress. I just want to point out that its better to qualify the statement of Superman being the first superhero with superpowers being one made by many even specifically mentionining the Guiness Book link, but it's not an all-encompassing statement. I.e.Ogon Bat was mentioned above, one of the link say he is the first superhero as well. The definition of "Superhero" doesn't seem to be very clearly defined too. ----] (]) 06:39, 26 September 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
== Wrong information about Superman == |
|
|
|
|
|
They all describe that Superman gets his power from our yellow sun here on earth but the fact is that our sun is WHITE and not yellow. ] (]) 20:27, 15 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:False. ] (]) 20:37, 15 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:It's classified as yellow based on the peak wavelength (see ]). ] (]) 15:17, 16 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
== Move discussion in progress == |
|
|
|
|
|
There is a move discussion in progress on ] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Zerox (song)#Requested move 1 March 2024 crosspost --> —] 02:51, 1 March 2024 (UTC) |
Can we say that Superman was the first superhero. The Phantom can be just considered a fictional "hero" not "superhero" same can be said who appeared before Superman. Support if you agree with me oppose if you disagree. Vote now! Kazama16 (talk) 22:13, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
They all describe that Superman gets his power from our yellow sun here on earth but the fact is that our sun is WHITE and not yellow. Dani Saikali (talk) 20:27, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
