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==]==
==Important subjects==
]
I sometimes reflect on comments by you and others that most of the important subjects have been covered on Misplaced Pages. I thought about that sentiment recently as I was digging into the history of the '']'' and its proprietor ]. Also his daughters who took over his paper and property after he became incapacitated and ran it and a boarding school in Huntsville. I also reflected on those ideas as I looked into the extant home on what was once their property near downtown Huntsville.
]
Happy New Year Jimbo!!! I hope all is well with you and your team.


Could you or your page watchers help me with ]? The draft has been declined and tagged up. It was then deleted years ago. I had it restored today after I came across one of his photos. I think he and his photography are fascinating for capturing aspects of New Zealand's transportation and industrial history. His work is in museum and library collections. At least one of his photographs has been used in a book. He photographed Maori sites.
What are the important subjects? Can we understand the history of Huntsville or the U.S. or the world if we don't cover more of these subjects? It continues to be a struggle to add entries on so many subjects including the newspapers, people, buildings, and communities that shaped who we were and who we've become. I thought these subjects were interesting so I thought I'd share them here with you and others. Take care. (I started ]'') ] (]) 15:16, 15 September 2023 (UTC)


], standing beside a collection of Maori carvings, including two fire-screens, carved by her father Albert Percy Godber]]
] was next door to their property. That institution is noted . ] (]) 15:30, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
:I love that draft of The Weekly Democrat. I'm traveling in New York at the moment and won't have time to chip in and help for a week or two, but if I can, I will!--] (]) 16:02, 21 September 2023 (UTC) I'm sorry I haven't been able to work the draft up enough to get it admitted to mainspace. It does make me wonder about what we do and don't include, our notability criteria, Articles for Creation (AfC) process, and collaborative ethos. Thanks so much for any help or guidance you can offer! Have a great 2025 and beyond. Thanks again. ] (]) 17:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks for the encouragement, enthusiasm, and for your interest Jimbo. ] (]) 20:45, 29 September 2023 (UTC) :If Godber is not ], which is what the draft reviewers say, then Wikipedians can't fix that. ] (]) 09:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::] is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? ] (]) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I dunno, but ] wrote that the draft did not show significant coverage about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject at that point. ] (]) 19:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
]
::::And this a request to revisit his finding. We have a photographer from more than 100 years ago who documented areas of New Zealand's North Island. We have his work in a National Library collection. We have his work discussed as iconic for one of his Maori related photographs. We have his work revisited in a 2018 exhibition. We have descriptions of him related to his photographs, his career, and we have the photos themselves documenting the areas industries, sites, infrastructure from more than 100 years ago. If I was satisfied with the previous conclusions I would not be here. So I ask again, should we have an entry on this subject? Should we just attribute his photos where we use them to an unlinked name with no explanation or discussion of who he was? I think the answer is clear, and I wanted to hear Jimbo's opinion. I am aware of what was previously stated. Years have passed and I believe it's time to reevaluate and consider. I also think it's worth reflecting on our article creations processes more generally and how we apply our conception of "notability". ] (]) 23:33, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
*Godber's photographs include "views of the ] including large numbers of cars traveling to ], and the ]. Another group of images relate to a holiday at the ] Homestead in ] with scenes of farm life, including ], ] sheep, and farm buildings. During their stay in the South Island Godber also took photographs of Dunedin (including the ], ], ], the ], and the Hillside Railway Workshops); ] (including the Invercargill Railway Workshops); Stewart Island, ], ], ], ] and ]. Various railway stations in Canterbury and Otago, the ], and the Rosslyn Mills. Godber was a volunteer fireman with the Petone Fire Brigade with the album including views of the building, groups of firemen, fire engines and other fire fighting equipment, and a building in Petone damaged by fire. In his work with New Zealand Railways, mainly at the Petone Railway Workshops, he took interior photographs of various buildings, including the Machine Shop and finishing benches, the engine room, lathes, boilers, and fitting shops. He also took photographs of many of the steam engines that were built and worked on at the workshops. One scene shows a group of men watching a fight. Many images show his interest in logging railways, particularly in the ], ], ] area. Scenes of logging camps, various methods of transporting logs including bullock teams, logging trains, and dams created and then tripped to send logs down by river, and timber mills. Other topics covered in Godber's photographs are scenes at Maori ] and meeting houses, with some of the people identified; Maori carving and rafter designs; beekeeping, and gold mining." ] (]) 23:52, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
*It's hard to choose which photos to share. Historic views areas, industries, bridges, natural features, railways and bridges, crafts. to his photos on Misplaced Pages Commons. Many already illustrate our entries on various subjects. ] (]) 00:01, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
:: If you really want to help him, get a couple stories published about him in newspapers. Notability here will follow. ] (]) 01:23, 11 January 2025 (UTC)


== ==
== Question regarding Wikimedia Endowment 2023-24 Plan ==


That doesn't sound good. From '']''. ] (]) 09:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
Jimbo, could you please give us more details about ?


:Being discussed at ]. ] (]) 10:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
I would like to know who the $2,300,946 ($874,546 + $1,426,400) in personnel expenses, $584,541 ($407,541 + $177,00) in professional services, etc. were paid to, and who the "interns, contractors and fellows" are. <s>Are they on the Tides payroll? Foundation payroll?</s><small>(Answered. See below.)</small> What, exactly, is a "fellow" and what do these fellows do? --] (]) 22:20, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
::Thanks! ] (]) 11:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
::Also discussed at ] and ]. ] (]) 19:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC)


Jimbo, could I ask you please to respond to from {{u|Tryptofish}}?
:OK, anyone who knows my history knows that I've had my pretty legendary scuffles with the WMF (and was vindicated after 7 years), but even I can tell this could be an example in the article ]. I'm wondering, what answer would satisfy you? ] (]) 00:56, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
:... it's not just if you've edited about Israel-Palestine. It could be if you've edited anything about climate and fossil fuels, gender, immigration, vaccines, and of course, American politics. I doubt that they have the bandwidth to actually identify and harass every editor who could possibly be seen as editing information that goes against a MAGA POV, but they will likely find some easily identified targets, whom they will use to "set an example", as a way of instilling fear in our editing community. I fully expect that, in the coming months, {{u|Jimbo Wales}} will be hauled before a hostile and performative Congressional hearing, much in the manner of university presidents. I hope very much that he will be better prepared than ] was.
:Yeah, I know this is grim. But I believe the first step in dealing with this is to go into it with our eyes open, to know what we are dealing with, what motivates it. And, more than harming individual editors, the real objective of Heritage ''et al.'' is to instill fear in the rest of us. If we become too fearful to revert POV edits, they win. In a very real sense, we have to keep doing what we have been doing, and continue to be a reliable resource for NPOV information. --] (]) 18:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
] (]) 05:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC)


:Well, I fully agree that developments in terms of arguments and actions aimed at destroying trust in knowledge (and of course our specific interest, trust in Misplaced Pages) are extremely worrisome, particularly as I agree that for many who are doing it, the motive does appears to be the undermining of civic norms and democracy. I also agree with Tryptofish in a part that you didn't quote: "In a narrow sense, it's technically true that if you "out" yourself, there's no point in anyone else doing it. But once your identity is known, you become vulnerable to all of the kinds of real-life harassment that doxed people find themselves subjected to. It doesn't matter, in that regard, how they found out your identity." That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.
::Any substantive discussion would satisfy me. An honest "fuck off. I am never going to answer your questions" would satisfy me. Pretty much anything other than a stonewall silence whenever someone asks a reasonable question would satisfy me.
:As a side note, I don't think that the reliability of the Heritage Foundation as a source is particularly related to these despicable actions. Whether they should be considered a reliable source in some matters is really unrelated to whether they hate us or not.--] (]) 14:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
::Suddenly ] going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. ] (]) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{tq|That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.}} Unfortunately, the scales have been inexorably slipping out from beneath the foundation's abilities or willingness to protect its volunteers for my entire wiki-career. There's no balancing force at work. The private equity community has made gadflies out of what we used to label reliable local news media; Alphabet and Meta are actively coopting precision, privacy, and the public domain, while attempting to minimize the effectiveness of good faith actors like Internet Archive. Now suddenly en.wikipedians are facing the sort of personal threats long experienced by volunteers at ru.wiki and zh.wiki. The forces now arrayed against free information don't need to be actively coordinating in order to rapidly bring us to 2+2=5 territory. Any established editor could reasonably see Western culture has been under relentless attack for a long time. Here comes the Heritage Foundation's leaks, hot off Heritage's bangup release of Project 2025, leaking articles through partisan outlets apparently intended to make it appear (in one case) the ADL's recent reliability downgrade at RSNP was anyone else's fault but the ADL's own writings and actions. The news of such activity appears to threaten the community members directly and personally. ] (]) 13:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)


== ] ==
::Sure, I would ''prefer'' engaging in a polite back and forth discussion as one would hope for among people who are working towards the same goal, but at this point pretty much any response, no matter how rude or evasive, would be a step forward from not responding at all.


Hey Mr. Wales, there's a discussion on ] about what image should be used on your Misplaced Pages entry. Figured you may want to chime in with personal opinion about the recent freely-licensed images of you that are presented, as there hasn't been much engagement there at the time of my post. <span style="background: cornsilk; padding: 3px;border:.5px solid salmon;">]]</span> 21:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
::I am not the only person asking these sort of questions. See ]. --] (]) 03:07, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
:::This is a straightforward question. This is a serious question. As a Wikipedian of over 15 years, I want a serious answer. ] (]) 03:12, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
::::Another source answered part of the above question. See Still waiting for any response other than silence here. --] (]) 03:02, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
:::::The other question that I see up above is about fellows. The WMF accountants have a budget category for "interns, contractors, and fellows". We do not have any fellows on the endowment. The fellows that I know of are on the legal team (of the WMF), usually law school students who do research for them as needed. There is one hourly employee, who manages the endowment's donor database.--] (]) 14:40, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
::::::Thanks! Very clear answer. --] (]) 19:13, 27 September 2023 (UTC)


== A barnstar for you! == == ''The Signpost'': 15 January 2025 ==


<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2025-01-15}} </div><!--Volume 21, Issue 1--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 07:54, 15 January 2025 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
<!-- Message sent by User:JPxG@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe&oldid=1269316164 -->
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|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | hello!! I hope you have a good day ] 16:03, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
|}

== Endowment financial information ==

Just as an FYI, there's a discussion going on right now to finalize some details and new information will be released very soon (I think before the week is out, barring anything unforeseen). ] (]) 10:54, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
:Financials have been published for the Wikimedia Endowment for the years 2016-2023. --] (]) 17:24, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
::Thank you very much for this!
{{cot|Comparison to S&P 500}}
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:right;"
|+ Wikimedia Foundation Endowment comparison to Standard & Poor's 500 stock index performance
! Fiscal year ending date !! June 2016 !! June 2017 !! June 2018 !! June 2019 !! June 2020 !! June 2021 !! June 2022 !! June 2023 ||
|-
| colspan=10 |
|-
! Support and revenue: || colspan=8 align=center | US Dollars || Total
|-
| Contributions || 6,607,435 || 11,590,795 || 11,737,537 || 12,000,238 || 21,194,726 || 24,093,050 || 11,549,007 || 6,547,663 || 105,320,451
|-
| Interest and dividends || — || 434,002 || 591,087 || 991,500 || 1,041,846 || 1,052,879 || 1,484,920 || 651,991 || 6,248,224
|-
| Realized gains || — || -6,895 || 937,287 || 1,077,257 || 303,116 || 4,535,027 || -225,081 || 0 || 6,620,711
|-
| Change in unrealized gains || — || 536,615 || -3,361,489 || 4,650,940 || 5,644,620 || 7,571,504 || -21,995,265 || 9,109,544 || 2,156,469
|-
| Total support and revenue || 6,607,435 || 12,554,518 || 9,904,422 || 18,719,935 || 28,184,308 || 37,252,460 || -9,186,420 || 16,309,197 || 120,345,855
|-
! Expenses: || colspan=9 |
|-
| Grants and awards || — || — || — || — || — || — || — || 4,527,086 || 4,527,086
|-
| Internal fees || 31,425 || 79,971 || 145,598 || 186,364 || 239,954 || 329,416 || 354,192 || 181,368 || 1,548,288
|-
| Other expenses || — || 3,168 || 11,605 || 13,376 || 19,863 || 32,935 || 33,751 || 17,533 || 132,232
|-
| Total expenses || 31,425 || 83,139 || 157,202 || 199,741 || 259,816 || 362,352 || 387,943 || 4,725,987 || 6,207,605
|-
! colspan=10 |
|-
| Increase in net assets || 6,576,011 || 12,471,379 || 9,747,220 || 18,520,194 || 27,924,492 || 36,890,109 || -9,574,363 || 11,583,210 || 114,138,250
|-
| Cumulative net assets before grants and awards || 6,576,011 || 19,047,390 || 28,794,610 || 47,314,804 || 75,239,296 || 112,129,405 || 102,555,042 || 114,138,252 ||
|-
| Investment income less fees and expenses || || 880,583 || -1,990,318 || 6,519,957 || 6,729,765 || 12,797,059 || -21,123,369 || 9,562,634 ||
|-
! Return on investment || || 7.12% || -7.99% || 18.74% || 11.62% || 14.66% || -17.92% || 9.44% || '''mean: 5.10%'''
|-
! colspan=10 | Note well: those percentage returns assume that half of all contributions are <br/> realized on the first day of the fiscal year, and the other half on the last day.
|-
! colspan=10 |
|-
| Median NACUBO endowment returns || || 12.5% || 8.0% || 5.1% || 1.8% || 30.1% || -8.7% || '''mean: 8.13%''' || ()
|-
! colspan=10 |
|-
| S&P 500 net total return || 3,590 || 4,206 || 4,783 || 5,249 || 5,610 || 7,861 || 6,996 || 8,324 || ()
|-
| S&P 500 percentage change || || 17.16% || 13.71% || 9.75% || 6.87% || 40.14% || -11.01% || 18.98% || align=center | '''mean: 13.66%'''
|-
| colspan=10 |
|-
! Return on investment over S&P 500 || || -10.04% || -21.70% || 8.99% || 4.75% || -25.48% || -6.91% || -9.54% || '''mean: -8.56%'''
|}
{{cob}}
:: What are our chances of seeing the historical investment holdings? That spreadsheet table is flawed because it assumes half the year's contributions come in at the beginning of the year and half come in at the end, but if we had historical investment transactions it wouldn't be necessary to make such absurd assumptions. ] (]) 03:55, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
:::Interesting. Thanks @] for posting the chart.
:::I would also be interested in the historical investment holdings. One might guess that Tides/WMF holds, say, treasury bills, treasury bonds, corporate bonds, and so on, generally adopting a more risk-averse investment strategy than 100% investment in the S&P, but in the S&P's worst year (June 2021-22), the WMF's investments did significantly worse than the S&P. I'd like to know what accounts for that. ] (]) 05:05, 3 October 2023 (UTC)


== A brownie for you! ==
:I can't answer you, today, as to whether or not we can release that information, because I don't know. I also note that since it's really only at this point a matter of historical interest, I don't think it's worth a huge amount of staff time. I'll check whether it's something easy but I really don't want anyone mucking around with huge spreadsheets to try to answer the question. Leave it with me. It might well be that the balanced answer will be just to get some "color" on the question: "we were invested more heavily in X sector, which performed worse during Y year" or that sort of thing.
:However, I can say that going forward, now that we have our own 501(c)(3) I will advocate for regular and clear transparency much greater than we have been able to provide in the past.--] (]) 08:37, 3 October 2023 (UTC)


{| style="background-color: var(--background-color-success-subtle, #fdffe7); border: 1px solid var(--border-color-success, #fceb92); color: var(--color-base, #202122);"
::No problem. Here are some typical and for nonprofit endowments from ] (the National Association of College and University Business Officers) which you might want to join, if they can do such reports at less cost than in-house. ] (]) 09:16, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
:::This should also answer the question pretty well: .--] (]) 17:19, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | brownie :D ] 19:05, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I guess the big difference between the Endowment's asset allocations (the link Jimbo posted) and typical endowment asset allocations (the link Sandizer posted) might account for the big difference between the Endowment's performance (net loss) and the average endowment performance (net gain).
::::I'm surprised, Jimbo. The Endowment lost millions of dollars -- it failed to keep pace with inflation -- and yet you don't think it's worth investing staff time to find out why, because it happened in the past and is thus of only historical interest? You know what they say about those who fail to learn from history... ] (]) 22:20, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::I believe the Endowment's asset allocations have changed over the years. Let me clarify with this summary table.
{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:right;"
! Fiscal year ending June !! 2017 !! 2018 !! 2019 !! 2020 !! 2021 !! 2022 !! 2023 || Mean return
|-
| WMF Endowment ESTIMATED* return on investment || 7.1% || -8.0% || 18.7% || 11.6% || 14.7% || -17.9% || 9.4% || 5.1%
|-
| Median Nat'l Assoc. of College and University Business Officers endowment returns || 12.5% || 8.0% || 5.1% || 1.8% || 30.1% || -8.7% || TBD || 8.1%
|-
| S&P 500 net total return || 17.1% || 13.7% || 9.8% || 6.9% || 40.1% || -11.0% || 19.0% || 13.7%
|} |}
:::::&nbsp;*assuming half of all contributions were realized on the first day of the fiscal year, and the other half on the last day.
:::::I'm not qualified to say whether those returns are outside the typical range for such funds, but I don't think they are. ] (]) 01:22, 4 October 2023 (UTC)


== ] ==
== ''The Signpost'': 3 October 2023 ==


You're the subject on a delist FPC. Please, give us your feedback. ] (]) 01:44, 19 January 2025 (UTC)
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Latest revision as of 01:44, 19 January 2025

    Welcome to my talk page. Please sign and date your entries by inserting ~~~~ at the end.
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    Albert Percy Godber

    Albert Percy Godber at his brass finishing lathe in the Petone railway workshops. A sign before him reads: `This is my busy day'
    "Looking down over a settlement with houses set amongst trees. The arm of a lake or harbour lies beyond, with a mountainous range on the far side. Photograph taken by Albert Percy Godber. Probably taken at Queenstown, Godber having visited Lake Wakatipu and Queenstown in 1926"

    Happy New Year Jimbo!!! I hope all is well with you and your team.

    Could you or your page watchers help me with Draft:Albert Percy Godber? The draft has been declined and tagged up. It was then deleted years ago. I had it restored today after I came across one of his photos. I think he and his photography are fascinating for capturing aspects of New Zealand's transportation and industrial history. His work is in museum and library collections. At least one of his photographs has been used in a book. He photographed Maori sites.

    "Phyllis Mary Godber wearing a Maori cloak, holding a taiaha, standing beside a collection of Maori carvings, including two fire-screens, carved by her father Albert Percy Godber

    I'm sorry I haven't been able to work the draft up enough to get it admitted to mainspace. It does make me wonder about what we do and don't include, our notability criteria, Articles for Creation (AfC) process, and collaborative ethos. Thanks so much for any help or guidance you can offer! Have a great 2025 and beyond. Thanks again. FloridaArmy (talk) 17:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    If Godber is not WP:NOTABLE, which is what the draft reviewers say, then Wikipedians can't fix that. Polygnotus (talk) 09:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    user:Polygnotus is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? FloridaArmy (talk) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    I dunno, but User:Sulfurboy wrote that the draft did not show significant coverage about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject at that point. Polygnotus (talk) 19:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    "Godber family outside their house 'Railway Whare' at 23 Bay Street, Petone, circa 1906. From left to right: Albert Percy Godber, Mary Ann Godber, Laura Godber, Phyllis and William. Photograph taken by Albert Percy Godber"
    And this a request to revisit his finding. We have a photographer from more than 100 years ago who documented areas of New Zealand's North Island. We have his work in a National Library collection. We have his work discussed as iconic for one of his Maori related photographs. We have his work revisited in a 2018 exhibition. We have descriptions of him related to his photographs, his career, and we have the photos themselves documenting the areas industries, sites, infrastructure from more than 100 years ago. If I was satisfied with the previous conclusions I would not be here. So I ask again, should we have an entry on this subject? Should we just attribute his photos where we use them to an unlinked name with no explanation or discussion of who he was? I think the answer is clear, and I wanted to hear Jimbo's opinion. I am aware of what was previously stated. Years have passed and I believe it's time to reevaluate and consider. I also think it's worth reflecting on our article creations processes more generally and how we apply our conception of "notability". FloridaArmy (talk) 23:33, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Godber's photographs include "views of the Hutt Valley including large numbers of cars traveling to Trentham Racecourse, and the Hutt River. Another group of images relate to a holiday at the Mendip Hills Homestead in Canterbury, New Zealand with scenes of farm life, including haymaking, merino sheep, and farm buildings. During their stay in the South Island Godber also took photographs of Dunedin (including the Ross Reservoir, Otago Boys' High School, Seacliff Mental Hospital, the 1926 Dunedin Exhibition, and the Hillside Railway Workshops); Invercargill (including the Invercargill Railway Workshops); Stewart Island, Moeraki, Tuatapere, Waiau River, Oamaru and Port Chalmers. Various railway stations in Canterbury and Otago, the Burnside Iron Mills, and the Rosslyn Mills. Godber was a volunteer fireman with the Petone Fire Brigade with the album including views of the building, groups of firemen, fire engines and other fire fighting equipment, and a building in Petone damaged by fire. In his work with New Zealand Railways, mainly at the Petone Railway Workshops, he took interior photographs of various buildings, including the Machine Shop and finishing benches, the engine room, lathes, boilers, and fitting shops. He also took photographs of many of the steam engines that were built and worked on at the workshops. One scene shows a group of men watching a fight. Many images show his interest in logging railways, particularly in the Piha, Karekare, Anawhata area. Scenes of logging camps, various methods of transporting logs including bullock teams, logging trains, and dams created and then tripped to send logs down by river, and timber mills. Other topics covered in Godber's photographs are scenes at Maori marae and meeting houses, with some of the people identified; Maori carving and rafter designs; beekeeping, and gold mining." FloridaArmy (talk) 23:52, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
    • It's hard to choose which photos to share. Historic views areas, industries, bridges, natural features, railways and bridges, crafts. Here's a link to his photos on Misplaced Pages Commons. Many already illustrate our entries on various subjects. FloridaArmy (talk) 00:01, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
    If you really want to help him, get a couple stories published about him in newspapers. Notability here will follow. Carrite (talk) 01:23, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

    Scoop: Heritage Foundation plans to ‘identify and target’ Misplaced Pages editors

    That doesn't sound good. From The Forward. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    Being discussed at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Heritage Foundation intending to "identify and target" editors. CMD (talk) 10:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
    Thanks! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
    Also discussed at Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence#Edit_request and Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Heritage_Foundation_planning_to_dox_Wikipedia_editors. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    Jimbo, could I ask you please to respond to these concerns from Tryptofish?

    ... it's not just if you've edited about Israel-Palestine. It could be if you've edited anything about climate and fossil fuels, gender, immigration, vaccines, and of course, American politics. I doubt that they have the bandwidth to actually identify and harass every editor who could possibly be seen as editing information that goes against a MAGA POV, but they will likely find some easily identified targets, whom they will use to "set an example", as a way of instilling fear in our editing community. I fully expect that, in the coming months, Jimbo Wales will be hauled before a hostile and performative Congressional hearing, much in the manner of university presidents. I hope very much that he will be better prepared than Claudine Gay was.
    Yeah, I know this is grim. But I believe the first step in dealing with this is to go into it with our eyes open, to know what we are dealing with, what motivates it. And, more than harming individual editors, the real objective of Heritage et al. is to instill fear in the rest of us. If we become too fearful to revert POV edits, they win. In a very real sense, we have to keep doing what we have been doing, and continue to be a reliable resource for NPOV information. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

    Sita Bose (talk) 05:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

    Well, I fully agree that developments in terms of arguments and actions aimed at destroying trust in knowledge (and of course our specific interest, trust in Misplaced Pages) are extremely worrisome, particularly as I agree that for many who are doing it, the motive does appears to be the undermining of civic norms and democracy. I also agree with Tryptofish in a part that you didn't quote: "In a narrow sense, it's technically true that if you "out" yourself, there's no point in anyone else doing it. But once your identity is known, you become vulnerable to all of the kinds of real-life harassment that doxed people find themselves subjected to. It doesn't matter, in that regard, how they found out your identity." That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.
    As a side note, I don't think that the reliability of the Heritage Foundation as a source is particularly related to these despicable actions. Whether they should be considered a reliable source in some matters is really unrelated to whether they hate us or not.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
    Suddenly ANI going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
    That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face. Unfortunately, the scales have been inexorably slipping out from beneath the foundation's abilities or willingness to protect its volunteers for my entire wiki-career. There's no balancing force at work. The private equity community has made gadflies out of what we used to label reliable local news media; Alphabet and Meta are actively coopting precision, privacy, and the public domain, while attempting to minimize the effectiveness of good faith actors like Internet Archive. Now suddenly en.wikipedians are facing the sort of personal threats long experienced by volunteers at ru.wiki and zh.wiki. The forces now arrayed against free information don't need to be actively coordinating in order to rapidly bring us to 2+2=5 territory. Any established editor could reasonably see Western culture has been under relentless attack for a long time. Here comes the Heritage Foundation's leaks, hot off Heritage's bangup release of Project 2025, leaking articles through partisan outlets apparently intended to make it appear (in one case) the ADL's recent reliability downgrade at RSNP was anyone else's fault but the ADL's own writings and actions. The news of such activity appears to threaten the community members directly and personally. BusterD (talk) 13:26, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

    Talk:Jimmy_Wales#Newer_2024_image?

    Hey Mr. Wales, there's a discussion on Talk:Jimmy_Wales#Newer_2024_image? about what image should be used on your Misplaced Pages entry. Figured you may want to chime in with personal opinion about the recent freely-licensed images of you that are presented, as there hasn't been much engagement there at the time of my post. BarntToust 21:32, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

    The Signpost: 15 January 2025

    * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:54, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

    A brownie for you!

    brownie :D Sir Macaw 19:05, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

    Misplaced Pages:Featured picture candidates/delist/Jimmy Wales

    You're the subject on a delist FPC. Please, give us your feedback. ArionStar (talk) 01:44, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

    Category:
    User talk:Jimbo Wales: Difference between revisions Add topic