Misplaced Pages

:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions - Misplaced Pages

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
< Misplaced Pages:Arbitration | Requests Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 00:31, 1 January 2024 editMarioGom (talk | contribs)Edit filter helpers, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers35,188 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit Latest revision as of 03:34, 9 January 2025 edit undoSeraphimblade (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators46,237 edits →PerspicazHistorian: Closing 
Line 1: Line 1:
<noinclude> {{pp-move-indef}} <noinclude> {{pp-move-indef}}
{{Redirect|WP:AE||WP:AE (disambiguation)}}
{{Redirect|WP:AE|the guideline regarding the letters æ or ae|MOS:LIGATURE|the automated editing program|WP:AutoEd|the English language varieties in Misplaced Pages|Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style#National varieties of English{{!}}Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style § National varieties of English}}
__NEWSECTIONLINK__</noinclude><!-- __NEWSECTIONLINK__</noinclude><!--
--><includeonly>={{anchor|toptoc}}]=</includeonly> --><includeonly>={{anchor|toptoc}}]=</includeonly>
Line 6: Line 6:
-->{{User:MiszaBot/config -->{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archiveheader = {{Arbitration enforcement/Archive navbox}}|maxarchivesize = 200K |archiveheader = {{Arbitration enforcement/Archive navbox}}|maxarchivesize = 200K
|counter = 326 |counter =347
|minthreadsleft = 0 |minthreadsleft = 0
|minthreadstoarchive = 1 |minthreadstoarchive = 1
|algo = old(5d) |algo = old(14d)
|archive = Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive%(counter)d |archive = Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive%(counter)d
}}</noinclude>{{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Header}} }}</noinclude>{{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Header}}


==PerspicazHistorian==
==Aredoros87==
{{hat|{{u|PerspicazHistorian}} is blocked indefinitely from mainspace. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 03:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC) }}
{{hat|Closed with various sanctions for both Aredoros87 and KhndzorUtogh, see result section for a summary. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 07:07, 29 December 2023 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> <small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Aredoros87=== ===Request concerning PerspicazHistorian===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|KhndzorUtogh}} 01:30, 22 December 2023 (UTC) ; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Aredoros87}}<p>{{ds/log|Aredoros87}}</p> ; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PerspicazHistorian}}<p>{{ds/log|PerspicazHistorian}}</p>


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# Immediately restores their extremely contentious additions accusing someone of having "sympathy to Nazism" after
# - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of ] (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
# Now adding additional heavily biased sources that contain ] and inflammatory/offensive comments about Armenians () () and otherwise ridiculous false ] claims ()
# - tag bombed the highly vetted ] article without any discussion or reason
# Makes a ] against me ("Is this the way that you discredit authors that you dislike?") and that I "unlawfully" did the same in . When the previously mentioned genocide denying and xenophobic sources are pointed out to them, Aredoros87 denies those sources have offensive and undue claims
# Continued edit warring and restoring these unreliable sources after all of the issues with them were pointed out # - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
# - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting
# - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
# - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
# - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "{{tq|This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.}}"


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
*Participated in process about the area of conflict (that is, requested same sanction against me with diffs that didn't merit action), on .
*Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->


I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : Just that I didn't want to make an AE report on Aredoros87 any time soon after they made one about me, until they made a personal attack. ] (]) 01:30, 22 December 2023 (UTC)


:While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to ]. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|Grandmaster}} Did you even realize that but in a proper context? Did you know that you had added the same information twice? ] (]) 22:55, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
<br>
::{{ping|Aredoros87}}
::#List article is a copy of
::#I reverted a topic banned user .
::#Okay, how about a source from the Turkish Foreign Minister? ""
::#You added and still reverted it back.
::You weren't involved in #1-3 at all. Why is the first time you are making any issue of them while asking for sanctions (again)? This is the exact same thing that <s>{{u|Firefangledfeathers}}</s> {{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}} had described two weeks ago, that you are still . --] (]) 23:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC)


*PerspicazHistorian is still using sources (see ]) and wishing to move ] to ] which is a blatant POV. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 04:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|Callanecc}}
:*I was literally quoting the closing statement, . I took the advice to follow ] very seriously, and have already demonstrated doing so. --] (]) 06:47, 25 December 2023‎ (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
:::{{ping|Callanecc}} {{ping|Vanamonde93}} Please allow me to explain in detail, I had summarized "nothing to support any action" based on these quotes: the "'''no formal action'''" closing statement, "", "", and a final comment by {{u|Firefangledfeathers}} advising (and yet Aredoros still doing that here). I had never meant to imply that I had nothing to improve myself, I took the BRD advice very seriously and have applied it since. I was only trying to illustrate Firefangledfeathers's final point which was primarily in support of warning the OP Aredoros for a very weak report. I acknowledge my words incorrectly implied there was nothing I could've done better, but please consider that I tried to keep my words simple and few because of the word limit and respect for the admins time, which is what I think caused this misunderstanding.
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
:::And for ], I just recalled that it was Grandmaster who , which they . Grandmaster was a party to the AA3 case and . Indefinite probation meaning, . Grandmaster has been edit warring with this same UNHCR statement, and then, when another user removed it, . This is also the second time Grandmaster tried to tag team in an AE report I created, . This now appears to be battleground mentality. --] (]) 19:34, 25 December 2023 (UTC)


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
::::"''''"
::::Aredoros not only neglected to explain their personal attacks to instead throw as much mud as possible (despite being explicitly told not to do that), they are even making new personal attacks in this very thread. --] (]) 22:20, 25 December 2023 (UTC)


===Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
::::: yet another casting ] personal attack in this thread by Aerodoros, this time at HistoryofIran. ] (]) 23:58, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by PerspicazHistorian ====
{{outdent}} I am aware of the ] process and ] building. I do my best to avoid edit warring and work together with other editors, not against them. On one article I and never reverted the other user back, instead I that the other user who eventually stopped replying a month ago, but I still haven't reverted them since. {{u|Callanecc}} has voiced the concern ''. In those instances, I felt what I was reverting had to be removed immediately for ] in a contentious subject and ], which states to remove the material when identified. I was only trying to do what I thought the guidelines required; I generally don't mind leaving my changes reverted until a consensus is reached. I didn't even want to make this report, a lot of other users probably would've done so immediately after Aredoros used a source denying the Armenian genocide (explicitly condemned in ]) but I instead wanted to explain why that kind of source isn't reliable. I only felt compelled to make this report after the personal attack. If my understanding of the alleged and libel pages was incorrect, I apologize, and will be even more careful to avoid edit warring in the future. ] (]) 18:36, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
*By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on ] Page.
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before ] told me about this: ].
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.<br>
*In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on ] by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to ] it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of ].<br>
*As a clarification to my edit on ], it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this . I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
:@], Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in ]. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! ] (]) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::Yes, I will commit to that. ] (]) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) </small>
:At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when ] was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. ] (]) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
*Hi @] , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
::''<small>P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards.</small>'' ] (]) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)<small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.] (]) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*1) I just asked an user @] if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
:2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! ] (]) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::even @] is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. ] (]) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::as mentioned by @] before, <sub>Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here</sub>. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. ] (]) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::@] I once filed a to find it @] is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. ] (]) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) <small>moving to correct section ] (]) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*Hi @] @], In my defense I just want to say that
===Discussion concerning Aredoros87===
:1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on ] page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
:2) My main interest in editing is ] and ] topics.
====Statement by Aredoros87====
:3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
'''R1.'''KU presented diffs in a misleading timeframe, but:
:Please do not block me. ] (]) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
# I added(14/11/23) sources(;) day after KU that sources don’t mention it. After his revert(21/11/23), I assumed his ] in edit-summary and .
*@] I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @] I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
# He cherry-picked and the source "propaganda". Then complained about ] and asked more sources</nowiki>]. Then claimed the source was primary and removed content from articles. (;). Again source doesn't mention what I said. I listed all .Then KU repeats same arguments and tries to discredit all 8 sources. For example, he claims author has "COI" because he gave an about political-economical relations, or tries to discredit source because author is founder of AZ-US cultural foundation.
*@]@] I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
# Calling well-known scholar "genocide-denier" because he "I cannot make juridistic assestments" is nonsense.
*@] This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
# Last message on talk-page was posted by me(23/11/23). After ~month(14/12/23) KU suddenly content with 8 sources. Then I restored and about it.
*:@] I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned ]. ] (]) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:
*::@]@] I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
:'''R2.'''I support ]. KU constantly POV-pushes:
*::The article ] doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about ], I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! ] (]) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:# redirected , claiming it was "copy" of another article. In reality, KU deleted and redirected to ].
*:::@] You mean to say, "<sub>The ''prasada'' is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, ] and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the ]. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. "</sub> is not copy pasted by website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? ] (]) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
:# claimed to be restoring removed citations. In reality, KU removed sourced information about Turkic inhabitants.
*::::@ ] I just asked others to share their opinion in the enforcement. With all due respect, I don't think its wrong in any sense. ] (]) 15:13, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
:# changed "Claims of violence against Armenians" to "Massacre of Armenians," saying it's massacre as there's confirmation of civilian killed. However, no reliable source supports that. Even UN stated against civilians.
*:::::To all the admins involved here,
:# discredits sources]] he doesn't like as "partisan” and parallelly defends partisan outlets like ]
*:::::* I agree to keep learning and apologize if my previous edits/replies have annoyed the admins.
:::'''R3.'''I sincerely apologize for inconvenience I have unintentionally caused. As a newcomer, I made efforts to familiarize with Misplaced Pages policies, but I now realize–I should be more patient in editing and commenting, and I promise to learn. I must admit, I was confused by double-standards of experienced editors: when I raised concerns about sources, I was reverted, and was told sources not listed in ] are reliable. However, same user reverted my edits on another article, saying sources are unreliable, even though they weren't in WP:RSP.
*:::::* I have not edit warred since a month and please see it as my willingness to keep learning and getting better.
:::That's how I realized that KU often knowingly misinterprets information/sources/rules. For example, KU even in AE</nowiki>]:
*:::::*Please give me a chance, I understand concern of you all and respect your opinion in the matter. But please don't block me from editing from main article space. I promise that I will abide by all the rules and will learn from other editors.
:::- referenced a wrongly claiming that "children being beheaded," however source states: "five civilians died as a result of shelling".
*:::::] (]) 15:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
:::- says he deleted the article as there was an ]. But, KU fails to mention AFD was about one-entry article with no sources, whereas deleted article had 12,000bytes and 9 sources. Why didn’t he merge content to improve Misplaced Pages, but choose deleting? Just compare and ].
:::- says he was reverting edits of banned user. I didn't find policy justifying that. Moreover, his edit comment was, ", but now claiming he was reverting.
:::{{re|Vanamonde93}} I would like to let you know that I didn't write that article, but .] (]) 21:00, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
::::<small>Just briefly, re reverting banned user edits, see ] and ]. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 08:05, 26 December 2023 (UTC)</small>
:::::'''R4.'''@]: I found “Good article” and decided to translate it. I admit, article I translated isn't perfect. I guess I expected that it'll require collaboration to improve, since it was first article I ever translated. I like translating articles and always announce what articles I'm planning to translate</nowiki>]. Everyone are welcomed to help me with translation in a friendly and constructive way.
:::::I learned original author is banned here only during AfD, when I tried to invite him for discussions.</nowiki>]. Is it prohibited to translate article if author is banned here?
:::::HistoryofIran took article straight to AFD, which was closed with no consensus to delete, but with recommendation to improve it though editing]]. Immediately after HistoryofIran requested title change and started removing parts of article</nowiki>]. While I agree with some of removals, some I don’t really understand. However, when I tried to join the talk</nowiki>] , I felt strong tension from the HistoryofIran</nowiki>], so I decided to leave it for more experienced editors to deal with.] (]) 18:22, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
::::::'''R5.'''@]@]@] Let me explain myself. I'm new to Misplaced Pages, and I admit I'm not perfect. I sincerely apologize for inconvenience I unintentionally caused and assure you I'm learning from these incidents to avoid repeating them.I have no one to mentor me, my learning process revolves around familiarizing myself with policies and observing the editors I encounter. HistoryofIran, I apologize if I somehow offended you. I didn't mean to, I was simply tying to express how I felt during our interaction. I didn’t mean to WP:PA anyone,and I apologize if I did. I realize that I was genuinely confused, because as new editor I was partially mirroring experienced editors I encounter. It's difficult to explain, but I'll attempt to explain by example: I noticed Beshogur raised ] and ] concerns and reverted edit</nowiki>] and then KU reinstated it without engaging in any discussion, but with the addition of new material</nowiki>] I now understand this wasn't correct way of editing, and the best course of action is to initiate a discussion and refrain from making edits until consensus is reached. However, at time, I believed it to be the norm. It feels unfair to be indefinitely banned for beginner mistakes I made while just starting to learn or for the flaws in first article I had ever translated.] (]) 09:08, 27 December 2023 (UTC)


====Statement by Grandmaster==== ====Statement by LukeEmily====
PerspicazHistorian also violated ] by engaging in an edit war with {{u|Ratnahastin}} who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.] (])
Per ], I think it would be appropriate to look into KhndzorUtogh's own recent activity. Today he removed from ] the information provided by the top international organization, the UN, claiming that the UN info was false, despite no authoritative international organization or other third party source contesting it: Previously, he was among those who objected to inclusion of the same information in the related article of ]. In order to resolve the dispute, I followed the advice of an admin and did an on whether the UN information on violence against civilians during the recent hostilities should be included or not. The overwhelming community consensus was that the UN information should be included, and it was restored to the article. Now KhndzorUtogh removes the same information from another article on the related topic, despite the clear community consensus that this information is relevant to the topic. Do we have to do RFCs on the same topic on every article concerning the same event, or it is enough to form the community consensus once and follow it? ]] 10:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC)


====Statement by Doug Weller====
The information about the UN mission at the bottom of the article omits any mention of the UN mission report that it "did not come across any reports — either from the local population or from others — of violence against civilians following the latest ceasefire". This is the same situation that led to RFC in the article about the flight of Karabakh Armenians, where the UN mission was mentioned, but the part about civilian casualties was omitted. And ] and ] are pretty much the same article split in 2, as one event led to the other. The arguments against inclusion of the UN mission findings about violence against civilians were discussed in much detail during the RFC, and were rejected by the community, but KhndzorUtogh keeps bringing them up again on a related article. ]] 10:50, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and ]'s comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving ] to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. ] (]) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. ] ] 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)


:::I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... ] ] 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
With regard to , when the UNCHR statement was removed with the comment that its place implied a rebuttal of a later statement by another source, I rearranged it chronologically to address the concern, when that was reverted by the same user, I continued discussion at talk. It is also worth mentioning that back in 2021 there was a complaint about KU , then a new user, of undoing edits by the same above-mentioned banned user ] regardless of their merit, and he was advised by the admins against doing that. ]] 23:20, 25 December 2023 (UTC)


====Statement by Toddy1====
@Firefangledfeathers. I only restored the content because the reverting user stated in his edit summary that . As one can see my , I put all the sources in chronological order, added date to UNHCR report, thinking that it would address his concerns. But when the same user removed the content second time, this time saying nothing about placement, but claiming that it was generally "dated" , I continued the discussion at talk. The only reason that I restored the UNHCR was that I thought that the objections could be addressed by sorting information according to their dates. I always try to resolve disputes in accordance to the rules, and it was me who started the RFC, and I've been considering another RFC on the same issue, and sought an advice from Callanecc . I was just unsure whether it was worth doing a repeated RFC on the same issue. I think we see stonewalling from KU, because first they argued that the UN was undue, when the community rejected that, he said that the UN was "dated", while there was no information from the UN or any other independent party that would supersede it. When asked which Misplaced Pages rule requires to use only "up to date" info, KU referred to ] , which in fact is not a rule, but a guidance on how to format articles, and it says quite the opposite, that the information needs to be dated precisely. A user who's been around for 2 years should be able to understand the rules. ]] 09:25, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
This is another editor who appears to have pro-] (RSS) and pro-] (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-] views, but allowed ] to say whatever they liked.


A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.
====Statement by HistoryofIran====
{{tq|"I would like to let you know that I didn't write that article, but translated"}}
Didn't wanna take part in this, but I find this somewhat disingenuous and deflecting. No one forced you to translate that mess, which is full of non-] and misused citations (I had to use 2 ish hours to only somewhat clean it up), not to mention the disconnected info, and bizarre claim of all Turks in that area and period being "Azerbaijani", an ethnonym which was not even present back then. The original article was created by a user who is indeffed in the English Misplaced Pages , and to make it worse, you have openly stated that you're planning to translate more of their messy (essentially ]) articles . This is quite concerning, especially when there are suspicions of you not being new here . Moreover, you were not cooperative in the AFD despite the evidence presented, even making a suggestion seemingly based on the one given by the indeffed user , but worse. While they suggested changing it to "Turkic-Mongol cultural relations in the '''South Caucasus''' and Iranian Azerbaijan", you suggested it as Turkic-Mongol cultural relations in the '''Caucasian and Iranian Azerbaijan''', despite this clearly contradicting the presented ] (there was no "Caucasian Azerbaijan" at that time). You then amongst other things went on to repeat the same suggestion at ]. --] (]) 16:17, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
::I'm not sure what you thought you would gain by this, going more after me than addressing the concerns I made. Quoting a 7 year old comment when I was a brat and didn't know better, not to mention casting random accusations, especially when the ] is literally there for you to read ; {{tq|"I'm really struggling to understand why HistoryofIran is so harsh, it feels like he wants to remove that article at any cost. I can only guess that it's something personal,"}}. And you're not really being completely honest here either, I did not merely "remove parts of the article" and the recommendation was not merely "to improve it though editing", the AFD , talk page and my edit summaries are there for everyone to see it. --] (]) 18:40, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


If we want to talk about ] when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .
===Clerk work (Aredoros87)===
<!-- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. -->


A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.
* <s>I don't intend to respond here except as a clerk.</s> {{u|Aredoros87}}, you greatly exceeded your word limit, and I have cut your most recent response. You are free to shorten your statement to accommodate further responses—as long as you don't meaningfully change any part that has been responded to—or request a word limit extension. Please assume that you will need space for further replies and trim accordingly. I'm unlikely to accept an extension request until it's clear that responding admins would benefit from further info, but such a request might be granted by someone else. ] (] / ]) 13:48, 22 December 2023 (UTC) <ins>striking a bit 23:27, 22 December 2023 (UTC)</ins>
* {{u|KhndzorUtogh}}: you are at your word limit. Please do not reply further unless granted an extension. You may want to proactively trim. ] (] / ]) 23:27, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{u|Grandmaster}}: you are at your word limit. Please do not reply further unless granted an extension. You may want to proactively trim. ] (] / ]) 13:41, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
* A note in case it helps: I'm unlikely to grant word limit extensions at this time. I think the current length is already a barrier in getting admin attention. ] (] / ]) 02:23, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
* I granted KU and GM another 200 words each per requests at my user talk and am granting {{u|Aredoros87}} the same for fairness. ] (] / ]) 01:33, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">--] ]</span> 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
===Result concerning Aredoros87===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
* I said I was just going to clerk, but I forgot I'd reviewed a prior dispute between these two. Might have thoughts later, but I'd prefer to hear from other admins first. ] (] / ]) 23:27, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
* It seems like there are two issues here:
*# A87's and KU's conduct at ] and its talk page.
*# A87's and KU's conduct in the wider AA topic area.
* I think there's enough evidence presented—which I haven't reviewed quite enough yet to suggest any action—for responding admins to come to some sort of conclusion for #1, even if that conclusion is inaction. I think it makes sense to start small and go big, so I'd prefer to postpone review of #2 or have it take place in a separate filing. A narrow finding of fact might be useful in processing the wider issue. I'm partially favoring this process option because I, and probably many admins, will be busy with holiday obligations for the next week or so. Any admin that's enthusiastic about a wider and deeper review should go ahead. ] (] / ]) 02:23, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
** I'm grateful for the additional analysis. I'll say that I really did mean for the advice to KU to be a non-warning. I don't think we're quite at "something must be done", but I do agree that some sanctions could help relieve contention in this topic area. I'm pro-IBAN. As I understand the ban, they could still bump into each other, but they'd need to neutrally seek dispute resolution—without comment on the other party—rather than debate 1 on 1 and revert war. A TBAN from just Nagorno-Karabakh wouldn't cover something like the Darbinyan article. How about a shorter AA-wide TBAN? ] (] / ]) 02:03, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
***Rather than a TBAN I'd be okay with trying an individual consensus-required type restriction where if their edits in the topic area are reverted they need to establish a consensus for the edit before readding it (with the ]). Ping {{u|Vanamonde93}} for your thoughts. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 08:02, 26 December 2023 (UTC)<br><small>Noting that I've changed my mind from my initial suggestion of a replacement to an IBAN (that is, a ban on reverting each other) as I just noticed above there is still commenting on each other above, rather than the substantative issue, when it's really not required. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 08:12, 26 December 2023 (UTC)</small>
**** We've got something of a logjam of sanction proposals on the table. I think we're all in agreement that both editors need some sanction. I like Callanecc's most recent proposal, and I would love to see us wrap this up in the next 48 hours or so. ] (] / ]) 02:08, 27 December 2023 (UTC)


====Statement by Capitals00====
*My analysis of the evidence presented above:
I find the comment from {{U|Toddy1}} to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "{{tq|Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India}}"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like ].
:*I believe we're in ] territory so we're at a spot where sanctions are necessary. The goal of this thread will be to determine what those sanctions are.
:*Aredoros87 filed an AE request concerning KhndzorUtogh ]. The request was closed on 12 December with advice to both editors. For KhndzorUtogh to follow BRD more closely, check content they're adding to the lead is sourced and include reasons with reverts. A87 was advised to build a stronger case before coming to AE and not to cite consensus where none clearly exists. Given the history between these two editors of not working well together and that they've recently filed requests against each other a mutual interaction been seems a good starting point.
:*Re KhndzorUtogh:
::*Despite this month's AE thread being closed with advice to them, KhndzorUtogh says above that the the AE thread {{xt|saw nothing to support any action}} against them which suggests that they don't feel they need to improve their conduct.
::*<s>I find concerning given the reminder about BRD in the previous AE thread and that there was a ] underway that they had not contributed to and rather than do so first they reverted as the first step.</s>
::*At ], while dismissing a concern A87 had about sources KU added to the article, KU implied that as the sources aren't listed at ] they are fine to use and A87's removal of them.
::*At ], after the December AE thread was closed KU the section heading regarding civilian deaths from "Claims of violence against" to "Massacre of". Around 24 hours later this change was then reverted by A87. Approximately seven days later KU it to "Reports of violence against" without noting this in the edit summary. Neither change was discussed on the article talk page.
::*At ], KU edit warred rather than allowing discussion to take place without this added conflict. (then started talk section) (seven days after last talk page reply) (three weeks after last talk page reply) instead of only engaging constructively in discussion to come to a resolution. KU's third revert occured after they had not replied on the talk page for three weeks following A87's most recent talk page comment and article edit.
:*Re Aredoros87 :
::*At ], A87 edit warred rather than allowing discussion to take place without this added conflict. (5 days after last talk page reply), . The last two reverts were following KU returning to the article after a break and reverting.
::*A87 in incivil behaviour and made a personal attack towards KU at ].
:Summary: As I said above the starting point for sanctions appears to be a mutual IBAN between A87 and KU. I'm currently considering whether further sanctions are necessary. That might be a crafted revert restriction (BRD with a long timeframe or a paired down version of something like consensus required) or a topic ban. I'm not convinced that this'd work in practice but another option might be that if a source they wish to use is challenged (including reverted) they need to establish a consensus in favour of using it (on the article talk page, RSN, etc) before they can readd it. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 11:20, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
:*After seeing KU's reply I'm more inclined to TBAN than I was before. Their justification that they were quoting from the closure statement of the last AE request is patently false, "closed with no formal action" is not the same as "saw nothing to support any action". If they believe that that is a quote then I have no faith in their ability to assertain information from sources. In the last AE thread they were advised to follow BRD more closely and while KU has provided some examples what I think they've demonstrated is that they were doing it sometimes but not in this instance. For example, KU said that they added the "Massacres of..." section header and so when it was changed by someone else then didn't follow BRD when changing it back.<br>I'm also more convinced of the POV editing from A87 and that to counter it required a TBAN, potentially limited to particilar areas around conflict in particular.<br>Re {{u|Vanamonde93}}'s suggestion of a logged warning, I think in some topic areas, especially where ArbCom has passed an "]" remedy, we should look to seeing unlogged reminders/advice and logged warnings as effectively equivalent. If advice didn't work we should strongly consider skipping logged warnings in favour of more impactful sanctions. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 08:09, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
:* Thank you for organizing this evidence, {{u|Callanecc}}. Regarding your second KU diff, hadn't they responded twice in the talk page discussion before reverting? As I see it, at the moment of their revert, there were two talk page participants in favor of including the UNHCR paragraph and two opposed, and I'm surprised to see that GM restored the content while consensus was so unclear. GM was leaning on an RfC at a different article, with disagreement about its applicability being reasonable. Am I misreading? ] (] / ]) 02:03, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
::*Yes, you're correct. I suspect I misread the month of the edit. I've struck it above. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 07:59, 26 December 2023 (UTC)


You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user ]. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "{{tq|seek to censor}}" this editor due to his "{{tq| pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views}}". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure ] is coming for you. ] (]) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*This is a difficult situation, that is in many ways similar to nationalist POV disputes in other contemporary ethno-nationalist conflicts. It's made more difficult by the fact that many sources are not in English, and assessing their quality and partisanship is therefore very challenging. {{pb}} I'm seeing sub-par behavior from both editors that smacks of POV intent; reverting while discussion is ongoing, using marginal sources to support a preferred version of content but opposing sources of similar quality elsewhere, using marginal sources to make the most sweeping statements possible, edit-warring slowly instead of discussing (not every behavior is visible for both users). KU is also showing some evidence of stonewalling/filibustering, while I'm more concerned at A87's use of sources (including at , that isn't mentioned here AFAICS). {{pb}} That said, I'm not necessarily seeing a smoking gun here that would justify a draconian sanction (such as a CT-wide TBAN); and I'm not sure what lesser scope I would choose. Callanecc, I'm somewhat opposed to an IBAN. This isn't a particularly wide topic; I find it difficult to believe these two can continue to edit constructively in this topic without running into each other constantly. I would prefer a logged warning about battleground behavior. <span style="font-family:Papyrus">] (])</span> 13:09, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
*:{{re|Callanecc}} I share your concern about KU's response to the previous AE. I remain opposed to an IBAN, but as I said above I would consider a TBAN of limited scope. My hesitation is with finding appropriate scope. In my assessment KU has been more immediately disruptive within the locus of the present-day dispute between the two countries, and A87's behavior is concerning topic-wide, but I would not want to give A87 the wider sanction here. How do you (and {{U|Firefangledfeathers}} feel about a 3-month TBAN from the ] for both parties? That's the best I can come up with at the moment. <span style="font-family:Papyrus">] (])</span> 09:30, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*::{{re|Callanecc}} I'm okay with requiring both these editors to obtain consensus for their edits within this topic. I would like the closing statement also to remind them about battleground conduct, though, because we're entering territory where sanctions for battleground behavior may need to be applied with no further warning (I know we can do that already, technically, but it feels more reasonable to do so after a formal warning). <span style="font-family:Papyrus">] (])</span> 14:04, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
* I have to say that ]'s evidence is concerning. ] 16:42, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
** I agree. ] (] / ]) 02:08, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
**Me too. I'm currently considering whether it pushes me over the line to TBAN. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 02:29, 27 December 2023 (UTC)


====Statement by Vanamonde93====
;Proposed sanctions
{{U|Toddy1}}: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.
I've created this subsection so we can keep track of how we're closing this. I know it's not ''required'' but hopefully others find it useful. Admins feel free to add your username or other proposals. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 02:16, 27 December 2023 (UTC)<br><small>{{ping|Vanamonde93|Firefangledfeathers|Black Kite}} <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 02:19, 27 December 2023 (UTC)</small>
{{cot|Proposals and consensus checking}}
*Aredoros87:
:*Formal warning re battleground, ...
:::Support: Callanecc, Firefangledfeathers
:*IBAN from KhndzorUtogh
:::Support: Callanecc, Firefangledfeathers
:*Requirement to obtain consensus whenever their edits are reverted in AA2 topic area.
:::Support: Callanecc, Vanamonde, Firefangledfeathers
:*TBAN from Azerbaijan
:::Support 3 months:
:::Support indef:
:*TBAN from Nagorno-Karabakh conflict
:::Support 3 months: Vanamonde
:::Support indef:
:*TBAN from Armenia, Azerbaijan, and related ethnic conflicts, broadly construed
:::Support 1 month: Firefangledfeathers
:::Support 3 months: Firefangledfeathers
:::Support indef: Callanecc (see notes)


That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. ], entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ({{tq|"first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya"}}, and poor sources (like , and , whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. ], also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.
*KhndzorUtogh:
:*Formal warning re battleground, ...
:::Support: Callanecc, Firefangledfeathers
:*IBAN from Aredoros87
:::Support: Callanecc, Firefangledfeathers
:*Requirement to obtain consensus whenever their edits are reverted in AA2 topic area.
:::Support: Callanecc, Vanamonde, Firefangledfeathers
:*TBAN from Nagorno-Karabakh conflict
:::Support 3 months: Vanamonde
:::Support indef:
:*TBAN from Armenia, Azerbaijan, and related ethnic conflicts, broadly construed
:::Support 1 month: Firefangledfeathers
:::Support 3 months:
:::Support indef:
{{cob}}
;Notes
:I've supported an indef TBAN for A87 primarily based on HistoryofIran's evidence and A87's reply. I've gone for the indef as I believe that A87 needs to learn about Misplaced Pages's norms in other topic areas rather than just needing a break from the topic area and effectively 'waiting out' the TBAN. I'm considering the same for KU but haven't decided yet. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 02:45, 27 December 2023 (UTC)


I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. {{U|Bishonen}} If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. ] (]) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
;Closing
:I'm intending to close with in the next 24 hours with the following sanctions:
:Aredoros87
:*formal warning re battleground editing and engaging constructively with consensus building
:*IBAN from KhndzorUtogh
:*indef restriction to obtain consensus whenever their edits are reverted in AA2 topic area
:*3-month TBAN from AA2 topic area.
:KhndzorUtogh
:*formal warning re battleground editing, edit warring and engaging constructively with consensus building
:*IBAN from Aredoros87
:*indef restriction to obtain consensus whenever their edits are reverted in AA2 topic area.
:{{ping|Vanamonde93|Firefangledfeathers|Black Kite}} are you okay with those sanctions? <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 03:31, 28 December 2023 (UTC)


:Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . ] (]) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:Yes. Thank you for pushing this forward. ] (] / ]) 03:42, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

::I'm okay with this, and thanks from me too. ] (]) 05:31, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
====Statement by UtherSRG====
::: Yes, sounds good, thanks. ] 13:55, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
I've mostly dealt with PH around ]. They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the ] when they can demonstrate they no longer have ] issues. - ] ] 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

:Based on , I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - ] ] 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in ] territory here. - ] ] 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::: is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - ] ] 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

===Result concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''

{{u|PerspicazHistorian}}, can you explain your understanding of ] and the ] rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring ''even if they aren't breaking 3RR''. ] (]) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
:@], that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is ''the first time'' someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
:<small>Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is ]; in their ] NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here.</small> ] (]) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? ] (]) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@], have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. ] (]) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. ] (]) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::@], like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God |url=https://www.ganeshaspeaks.com/predictions/astrology/prasad-food-for-god/ |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=GaneshaSpeaks |language=en-GB}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=What Is Prashad |url=https://www.swaminarayan.faith/articles/what-is-prashad |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj |language=en}}</ref> The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit ''yesterday'', after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
:::::The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. ] (]) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. ] &#124; ] 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
*:{{u|Vanamonde93}}, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we ''are'' in CIR territory; just look at PH's ] for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. ] &#124; ] 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
*Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? ] (]) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. ] (] • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*It looks to me like there is a consensus for an indefinite partial block for PerspicazHistorian from article space. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within a day or so, I will close as such. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Given PH's recent slew of requests on multiple admin talk pages, yes, please do. - ] ] 12:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
*<!--
-->

{{reflist talk}}
{{hab}} {{hab}}


==Rsk6400== ==LaylaCares==
{{hat|Rsk6400 and Crash48 topic banned from ] for 12 months. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 06:59, 29 December 2023 (UTC)}} {{hat|There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> <small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Rsk6400=== ===Request concerning LaylaCares===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Crash48}} 23:16, 23 December 2023 (UTC) ; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Vice regent}} 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Rsk6400}}<p>{{ds/log|Rsk6400}}</p> ; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|LaylaCares}}<p>{{ds/log|LaylaCares}}</p>


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# EC gaming


* ]:
*# reverted my addition with the message {{tq|stop edit warring. You have no consensus for that}}; two weeks earlier, on , I had pinged him on the article talk page asking whether he had any opposition against my addition; Rsk6400 ignored my question, and it remains unanswered to this day.
*# refused to state any specific reasons for reverting my addition when I asked him on his user talk page.
*# claimed that most of the draft I created is original synthesis of primary sources; but then refused the moderator's request to identify the text that is synthesis from primary sources.

* ]:
*# feigned willingness to participate in a mediated DR; but then, over the course of a month, refused to suggest any specific change to the article, or to relate to any specific change suggested by me.
*# stated that after a draft of the proposed article section is created, he'd like to take part in the process of improving the draft; but after the draft was created, he refused to contribute even a single edit to it.


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): ;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict on , and further warned by the DR moderator on , on and on as he kept on filibustering without engaging in the discussion of the content whose inclusion he opposes.


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
See ] for the DR which is now closed as failed.


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
Earlier, on , Rsk6400 stated that the reason why he reverted my addition was "because it was without context". Then, on , Rsk6400 added a "context" to the article to his satisfaction; but he insists on reverting my addition even though the "context" he had required is now present.


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
The example when {{tq|an editor refuses to accept a change unless some condition is complied with, but it is not a condition that has any basis in Misplaced Pages policies or guidelines}} is specifically listed as a case of stonewalling, and Rsk6400's condition that {{tq|primary sources should not be used here}} has no basis in Misplaced Pages policies or guidelines.


===Discussion concerning LaylaCares===
Regarding the accusations of me edit warring: ] advises, upon not receiving any response on the talk page from the revertor within a few days, to reapply the change, prior to taking the dispute to other forums. This is the recommended course of action that I followed, unlike Rsk6400 none of whose reverts was preceded with an attempt to discuss the content that he disputes.
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by LaylaCares====
{{re|Mzajac}} indeed, about a half dozen editors alleged that my proposed additions are ]. Each one of these editors refused to substantiate their allegations. The multitude of stonewalling editors expressing baseless allegations should not be mistaken for a consensus.


====Statement by Aquillion====
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be ]-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail ], since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --] (]) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


===Discussion concerning Rsk6400=== ===Statement by Dan Murphy===
Please look at ], written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.] (]) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
====Statement by Rsk6400====
The issue was discussed at
* ]
* ]
* ]
*
* ]
* After filing this request, Crash48 also started an RfC at ].


====Statement by starship.paint====
Re "Stonewall" 3: The moderator misunderstood my point, which was "The claim ... is not really supported by the source." (From the diff given by Crash48)
I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, . '''] (] / ])''' 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
Re "Filibuster" 2: When I stated my willingness to improve the draft, there were three editors in the discussion. I was hoping that the third editor would provide a sensible draft, but they withdrew from the discussion.


I'll gladly answer to the other points if an admin has any questions.

Please note that Crash48 says that I "feigned willingness" (against AGF) and that they continued edit warring at Ukrainian language after they accepted the rules of the moderated discussion. I'll provide the diffs as soon as I can, but please excuse me for now because of Christmas celebrations (Happy Xmas to all who celebrate that feast !) ] (]) 15:48, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Please note that I informed the third party of the DNR of this discussion.

Replying to Robert McClenon's statement: It's not true that I "wanted to roll back the article to a stable version". I demanded that the rule be applied according to which the mediation failed because Crash48 edited the article after having accepted the rules. I also wanted that you saw that you were mistaken when saying that Crash48 made that edit "so soon after I provided the rules." It's also not true that you "had to" collapse much of the discussion. At least everything that I said was said for procedural reasons. The extracts from the discussion (8th to 10th statements) which you presented here are arbitrarily chosen. Of course, I said that "most" was original synthesis. But the most important claim was "not really supported by the source." I'm really at a loss how you could misunderstand me so often and so deeply. I reject your final statement that it was me who "made reasoned discussion impossible." ] (]) 19:40, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

:I don't think I did anything that merits a formal TBAN, but I certainly lost my nerve and need to disengage from the topic. I just removed ] from my watchlist and will not edit that page or anything belonging to the topic ("topic" as defined by ]) for at least 12 months. Robert McClenon, I certainly didn't intend to gaslight you, Manyareasexpert explained my idea better than I did. ] (]) 11:19, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

====Statement by Robert McClenon====
I was the moderator at ] of the dispute over the content of the ] article. When I begin mediation of a content dispute about a ], I instruct the principals to acknowledge that they are aware that the topic is contentious. Some topics are subject to ] because they have historically been real battlegrounds. ] is in ], which is where ] began. It is also the location of the bloodiest war of the twenty-first century.

This was a difficult mediation. Both Crash48 and Rsk6400 had to be warned. I had to collapse back-and-forth discussion. Rsk6400 wanted to roll back the article to a ], which I did not do, because my objective is to improve the article going forward rather than to go back. Rsk6400 wanted me to fail the mediation because Crash64 had edited the article after I had said not to edit the article. I could have failed the mediation at this point, but chose not to do so, because I was trying at least to get the parties to agree as to what they disagreed about.

Things got worse on 20 December, when I tried to explain what I saw as the situation. I thought that I was quoting Rsk6400, and they denied having said that there was original synthesis from primary sources. This appears to be an attempt to ] the moderator. I failed the moderation when I thought that I was being gaslighted.

In Rsk6400's Eighth Statement, they wrote: {{tqb| Commenting on this version of the draft: Most of it is original synthesis of primary sources.}}
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages%3ADispute_resolution_noticeboard&diff=1190235427&oldid=1190181961

So in my Tenth Statement, I wrote:{{tqb|I was mistaken in my statement about what Rsk6400 wrote about Crash48's section on name. They said that the section consisted largely of synthesis from primary sources.}}
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages%3ADispute_resolution_noticeboard&diff=1190852606&oldid=1190699459

Then in Rsk6400's Tenth Statement, they wrote: {{tqb|Dear moderator, the whole thing has become too frustrating for me. You misunderstood my eighth statement once again. The claim in the first sentence " the language was usually named Ruthenian or Little Russian" is not really supported by the source. The source (Flier & Graziosi) is of course a secondary source. I did not claim that this was original synthesis as you mistakenly claimed in your last statement.}}
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages%3ADispute_resolution_noticeboard&diff=1191238647&oldid=1191110219

Maybe they aren't trying to confuse the moderator, which may be like trying to confuse a jury, but the effect is that they made reasoned discussion impossible.
] (]) 15:24, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
::Thank you, ], for trying to explain what Rsk6400 is saying, but I am no longer mediating this dispute, and I do not plan to resume mediating it. ] (]) 23:37, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
::I think that I am over and out, but will need permission to add more words if I am pinged again. ] (]) 23:37, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

==== Statement by Manyareasexpert ====
Greetings, just a small comment regarding "Most of it is original synthesis of primary sources" and "is not really supported by the source" to @] 's attention. Both can be true, the section of the text could be "original synthesis" mostly, and the particular sentence out of it may "not really be supported by the source". Indeed, if we look at the text ], it has an extensive collection of facts (primary sources) of how Ukrainian was named Little Russian and Ruthenian (confirming synthesis), and the best I can find confirming " the language was usually named Ruthenian or Little Russian" at the source given is ''... the “Little Russian” language (the term used for Ukrainian in the Russian Empire)... '' and ''... It was during this period that elites on both sides of the border began to apply the term Ukrainian to the varieties formerly called Ruthenian and Little Russian.'', and @] may hold the opinion that ''The source only makes the corresponding statement in a specific context, i.e. to specify the language it is talking about'' ] . ] (]) 09:52, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

====Statement by Mzajac====
Crash48’s proposed edits to the article have been extensively argued in multiple discussions as noted above by about a half dozen editors, including myself. They do not have consensus. They are not getting any closer to consensus.

Kudos to Rsk6400 for being the only one with the patience to continue engaging tirelessly with Crash48. They don’t deserve to be singled out and accused of obstruction, because they are not the only one opposed.

This is getting nowhere. It seems disruptive. It should end. The proposed changes shouldn’t be made without consensus, so maybe the best action is to declare a moratorium for a cooldown period while everyone involved continues with productive editing on other articles.&nbsp;—'']&nbsp;].'' 03:07, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> <!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning Rsk6400=== ===Result concerning LaylaCares===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' :''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> <!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. ] (]) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*Crash48's contributions to the mediation are filled with sections where they demonstrate a battleground mentality. For example ] and ]. <br>Robert McClenon's statement does a good job of summarising Rsk6400's stonewalling in this discussion. I also found Rsk6400's focus that the mediation should have failed when Crash48 edited the article exemplified their stonewalling and battleground mentaility throughout the mediation.<br>Both editors also engaged in (slow) edit warring at the Ukrainian language article. Based on the above I would support topic banning both editors from the Ukrainian language. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 01:07, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. ] (]) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::Just noting that I'm intending to close this with the above sanctions in the next 18 hours or so. <b>]</b> (] • ] • ]) 12:52, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
*I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. ] (]/]) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
*@]: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. ] (]/]) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I don't think the wording of ] allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. <small>(ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.)</small> That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making ''real'', substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag ''is'' an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}} {{hab}}


==AstroGuy0==
==2603:6011:4902:a77f:e410:75e4:4408:ca95==
{{hat|{{u|AstroGuy0}} has been issued a warning for source misrepresentation by {{u|Voorts}}. No other reviewers have expressed any wish for further action. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 06:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC) }}
{{hat|IP blocked for 72 hours by Isabelle Belato. ] (]) 23:38, 27 December 2023 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> <small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning 2603:6011:4902:a77f:e410:75e4:4408:ca95=== ===Request concerning AstroGuy0===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Buidhe}} 08:35, 27 December 2023 (UTC) ; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Hemiauchenia}} 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|2603:6011:4902:a77f:e410:75e4:4408:ca95}}<p>{{ds/log|2603:6011:4902:a77f:e410:75e4:4408:ca95}}</p> ; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|AstroGuy0}}<p>{{ds/log|AstroGuy0}}</p>


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
(Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of '''race/ethnicity''' and human abilities '''and behaviour'''")


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once.
#
# Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani"
#

#
; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
All of these are editing in I-P without extended confirmed permissions, made after the notification on their talk page.


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): ;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, at 8:00 on


: Made aware of contentious topics criterion:
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here --> <!-- Add any further comment here -->
I think it's possible that the IP just doesn't know what a talk page or edit history is, but I'm not sure how to get through to them.


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. --> <!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
===Discussion concerning 2603:6011:4902:a77f:e410:75e4:4408:ca95===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
====Statement by 2603:6011:4902:a77f:e410:75e4:4408:ca95====


Additional comments by editor filing complaint:
====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. ] (]) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
===Result concerning 2603:6011:4902:a77f:e410:75e4:4408:ca95===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
* I've blocked the IPv6 for a period of 72hrs. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 14:09, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
{{hab}}


===Discussion concerning AstroGuy0===
==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Nableezy==
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by AstroGuy0====
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved {{SAFESUBST:<noinclude />#ifeq: {{SAFESUBST:<noinclude />PAGENAME}} | Administrators noticeboard | editors | administrators}}" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small>


====Statement by Iskandar323====
<small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small>
This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. ] (]) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Nableezy}} – 20:35, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning AstroGuy0===
; Sanction being appealed : ]

; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}}

; Notification of that administrator : ]

===Statement by Nableezy===
I was warned for ] response to another editor on ], a response that had already been modified prior to any warning for that matter (]). I was then topic banned with the diffs supporting the ban ] (pre warning, though also cautioned about that edit on ]), ] and edit summary, apparently for calling the grammar "trash", ] on my talk page about that edit (2023-12-25 22:14:30), and my participation at an ]. SFR has said these demonstrate a pattern of battleground editing, but I dont see how. He has also ] that {{tq| The individual interactions are not enough, in and of themselves, to sanction, e.g. your needlessly inflammatory edit summary (which should have been the first diff, not a repeat of the discussion on your talk page) which you tacitly admitted was unduly harsh. The problem is that it has remained a common occurrence after warnings.}} But the only thing that has been shown post warning is the AN thread and the revert/response on my talk page, all the other diffs pre-date that warning. And regarding the AN thread, in which I said that an editor calling a clearly good faith editor NOTHERE was ] and I ] an editor attempting to overstate the level of consensus for sanctions, my views were basically accepted by an uninvolved admin (]) and another editor was convinced by my argument to adjust their previous position (]). I dont see how politely engaging in the substance of arguments on AN is "battleground mentality". I can admit that the ] was SOAP in response to SOAP and I need to not do that, but it has not re-occurred since any warning. As far as the edit summary, I was unaware we may not criticize edits. The sentence was in fact poorly written, and I dont think it merits a topic ban to say that in an edit summary. We arent editing a fourth grade play here, this is supposedly an encyclopedia written in English, and criticism of poor English being placed in the leads of highly visible articles is not, in my view, any type of offense at all, much less evidence of "battleground behaviour" that merits a topic ban. SFR's claim that my supposed problematic behavior {{tq|remained a common occurrence after warnings}} is unsubstantiated in my view. He has said he cautioned me to stop arguing with Andrevan, but I had no interaction ban and I do not know how to respond to people making arguments that I feel are misrepresenting both the sources and our policies without saying so. But given SFR's own admission that none of the edits merit sanctioning, and the fact that they all, excepting the edit summary calling poor grammar "trash" and the AN thread, pre-date any warning, I dont see how this ban is justified on the merits and I request it be vacated.
:There are now several more diffs supposedly substantiating "veiled or not so veiled commentary on other editors' motives". ], ], ], ]. None of those are about another editors motives. The last diff was a result of my misreading the prior comment, I read it as claiming that the IDF had not killed these three people, and I apologized immediately upon recognizing my error. And none of those demonstrate any ongoing issue post warning, being that they all came prior to the warning. Also, I dont think its really fair to after imposing a ban and having it appealed to then tack on other supposed issues. I would have addressed those in my initial statement if I had been aware they were considered in the original ban. ''']''' - 21:51, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

:I can only answer for the diffs I’ve been given and I don’t think you have substantiated any disruptive pattern, and certainly not after your warning. ''']''' - 22:42, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
::Would also request topic ban violations be enforced here. ''']''' - 23:02, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
::SFR no it’s an indication that I misread and that when I realized my error I recognized my mistake. We don’t typically hold against editors mistakes they make that they sincerely apologize for, without prompting by an admin I’d add. ''']''' - 23:25, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
:If there is anything in the involved editor section that needs to be responded to please let me know, and editors should know well enough to know when they are involved or uninvolved. But I have absolutely substantiated each of my claims about other edits that are being raised here. ''']''' - 16:55, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
:Galobtter I agree that Ive been more frustrated and harsher than I should be, and I have been trying to moderate that, and I agree with Harry's advice, and hell I agree with SFR's advice too. I understand the cause of the ban, but I dont think that if a warning is given for past behavior and I havent done anything since that warning to indicate that I am continuing with that behavior that a ban is merited. I was warned on December 25th and banned on December 26th. I cannot see how any of my contributions in those intervening 39 hours were indicative of a battleground mentality or poor civility or really anything else to object to. I am trying to rein in my frustration here. But for the record, I called the grammar of that edit trash. The reason I removed it instead of fixing the grammar though was that it was the subject of an ongoing RFC. And I dont know why calling poor grammar poor is a problem for an English encyclopedia editor. But I *did* recognize that it was harsh, my response to Elad on my talk page was {{tq|Which part? The grammar is garbage part? Sorry, Ill try to be less harsh, but Elad you are editing the lead of an English language encyclopedia article. You have to do it with better English. If you cant then suggest an edit on the talk page and let somebody with better command of English grammar make the edit.}} Do I think that a harsh edit summary merits a sanction? No, especially when it, even if harsh, is true. ''']''' - 17:37, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
:And for the record, I will add to the chorus of praise for SFR for trying to, mostly single-handedly, manage a conflagration that is approaching Chicago in 1871 in size and intensity. And I hope he continues to do what he can, and even better that others join him. ''']''' - 19:16, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
:For the record, gaslighting was in reference to sources like ], not about editors. ''']''' - 20:37, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
:Isabelle, I have tried to lower the temperature, and I will continue to do so. I will redouble my efforts to not respond to soapboxing with soapboxing. But, besides for an edit summary that I already recognized as harsh, I dont know what I could have done after being warned to avoid a topic ban here. ''']''' - 03:54, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
::SFR, I’ve responded to most of these diffs already, including the Samer Abu Daqqa AFD, and for the most part I disagree with your characterization of them, but even accepting them I had indeed moderated my tone since your warning, making the escalation to topic ban a day and change later something that seems like I couldn’t avoid. Though your raising the AN thread again seems like it’s the actual trigger. That there being back and forth is a cause for a topic ban. But there is nothing in my three comments in that diff that are a. Uncivil, b. Battlegrounding, or c. Inaccurate or otherwise wrongly stated. People are allowed to disagree with each other here. You’re ignoring the substance of the comments, where one is making clearly specious claims and one (raises hand) is responding to those specious claims. And, again, my comments in that AN thread were agreed to by others and had others change their minds because of them. That isn’t disruptive, that’s constructive. ''']''' - 07:57, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
:::Ok now I’m just lost here, you’re taking diffs of a response to an RFC prompt of {{tq| We need a whole bunch more eyes on this article, its framing, and its intervention in other Misplaced Pages articles on this topic if any of y'all have better blood pressure medicine or deeper knowledge of this topic than I do. It may be fine that the current lede of settler colonialism involves accusations of genocide or that this title is completely differently formatted for every other section link coming off of settler colonialism. I really don't know and I do appreciate that the current editors on this new page have been formatting well and finding sources to build their page. An intro "graph" of exactly 4 data points seems like an excellent example of how lazy and partisan "sources" on this topic can be, however, and I'd be much more comfortable with wider community involvement from both sides plus plenty of neutrals}} with me questioning if a person who admittedly has no idea what the sources say but is still sure that the article is wrong. You have completely turned the purpose of this place upside down with the claims that these diffs are battlegrounding and not just asking people to abide by our editing policies. If you’re going to post diffs from going on 19 months or something then I really don’t know how I am even supposed to begin to respond. It’s as if throwing a pile of shit against the wall with the hope something sticks is how this is going. People aren’t supposed to edit based on feeling and intuition but on sources, and calling that out isn’t battlegrounding, it’s editing in support of our most core policy. ''']''' - 15:37, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
To be honest, the no carve out for Davidbena's mentorship is what drove me to appeal, so I’m fine with that modification, and I would make that commitment with or without the topic ban. ''']''' - 00:06, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

===Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish===
I provided a few diffs to demonstrate the problem was recent and continuing. I have also warned multiple times, , including here at AE . A warning also does not cancel out any prior issues, and I was placing warnings for behavior in real time while reviewing a vast corpus of discussions.{{pb}}I have been asked by several editors in the area to just read the talk pages, and it will become clear where the problems lie. I have spent an enormous amount of time reading dozens of talk pages with what likely totaled a few hundred thousand words. What I determined is that there is persistent battleground behavior by many editors, and I acted to remove some of the worst actors temporarily, and one flagrantly disruptive one indefinitely. I don't have a large book of diffs because battleground behavior is a pattern, not single diffable. I was also reading many discussions, many of them weeks old, mostly on my phone. Looking up each diff of battleground conduct, incivility, unnecessary escalation, hostility, and extended unonstructive back and forths with the find addition/removal tool, or by trolling through histories of talk pages with thousands of edits was simply not feasible.{{pb}}There are many examples going back of the disruptive behavior. Much of it, as I explained to Nableezy, would not be worth a sanction, or sometimes even a warning. Taken as a whole it demonstrates disruptive editing in the topic, hostile or dismissive responses towards those with a different POV on events or sources, and frequent veiled or not so veiled commentary on other editors' motives. (This last was apologized for, but look at the tone even in a misunderstanding). They also recognize this behavior in others . They have had to deal with a lot of bullshit, yes, but so has everyone in the topic area. ] (]) 22:37, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{u|Nableezy}}, I sanctioned you for a pattern of editing which I believe I explained at your talk page where I said {{tq|The issue is with the consistent pattern of your editing, rather than any single specific diff. I included the diffs to show some recent behavior, but there have been dozens of instances of your behavior demonstrating a battleground mentality, an inability to keep calm in the topic area, and lashing out at other editors.}} and {{tq|I didn't topic ban you for a single edit summary, I topic banned you for a pattern of behavior.}} A pattern of behavior is more than four diffs, and the pattern goes back for weeks, before and after the numerous warnings I gave. ] (]) 22:37, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
:And yes, you did apologize for , as I noted, but your first response demonstrates how you've been reacting to other editors. ] (]) 22:44, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
:I'm already nearly at, or past, 500 words so I'll try to keep this short. I don't believe the four warnings I gave each provided a blanket pardon for any prior misbehavior across the topic. I gave warnings for behavior I saw as it happened, but the topic ban was based on the totality of the discussions I reviewed.{{pb}}Several editors have provided more diffs, and one has said that {{tq|Nableezy's behavior convinced me not to edit the most contentious pages in this subject area}}. That I warned for other disruptive editing does not make the other behavior no longer disruptive. Except for the indef topic ban of Iennes all of the topic bans were based on the same long-term consideration.{{pb}}If consideration of long-term patterns of editing isn't the place of an admin patrolling a CTOP, that's fine and I'll keep that in mind for the future. However, I see the point of CTOP designation is to allow uninvolved admins to step in to stop disruption that is demonstrably preventing other editors from even taking part. I'm now way over 500 words so I'll leave this to others unless any of the considering admins have have any questions or require clarification. ] (]) 19:17, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
:Well, I said I was done, but I guess wasn't. Sorry for going over my word limit. Perhaps the evidence will be a little more cohesive in one timeline. This is the two weeks leading up to the topic ban comprised mostly of diffs in this appeal, in the warnings, and in the topic ban notice.
* Dec 12
* Dec 14
* Dec 16
* Dec 17
* Dec 17
* Dec 17
* Dec 19
* Dec 20 ''''''
* Dec 21 Apologized for misreading, but clear assumption of bad faith, which had happened
* Dec 22
* Dec 24
* Dec 24
* Dec 24
* Dec 24 , specifically warned about at AE on Dec 16. This series wasn't already in evidence, but was part of the impetus for the next warning. The next diff was part of this exchange.
* Dec 24
* Dec 25
* Dec 25
* Dec 25
:Again, I did not topic ban for the 28 edits edits after the last warning, I topic banned for an ongoing pattern of behavior that continued after several warnings. I even tried the method that had been suggested to me in the past before sanctioning, which was ineffective at preventing more BATTLEGROUND arguing. There are two editors here that have reduced or stopped their participation in the topic area due to this battleground behavior. I'd also like to draw attention to the bolded diff, outlining exactly the reasoning behind the topic ban which they explained to another editor. ] (]) 05:32, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
::{{u|Zero0000}}, I highlighted it because it is the exact situation that led to my placing the topic ban. Nableezy is a good editor making bad statements, and they can't be an ass to people just because they disagree with someone. In this circumstance Nableezy was made to stop. ] (]) 06:45, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
::As I was investigating the conflict brought up by Kire1975, I started looking into the contribution histories of the editors involved at those threads, which led me to IOHANNVSVERVS's contributions, which led me to ]. I then started reviewing the discussions. These diffs are from May 2022.
::*
::*
::*
::*
::It was through reviewing talk pages like this and reviewing recent edits that I came to my conclusion about the long term pattern of battleground editing. ] (]) 15:19, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
:::{{u|Nableezy}}, I was probably not as clear as I should have been, and I'm not intending to add more evidence. I'm trying to illustrate how I read a lot of your edits that had taken place over a long period of time. I wasn't just reviewing recent edits, and you've made a lot of comments in a lot of discussions in the topic area, so I read a lot of them while reviewing discussions. I brought this up because it just happened again while looking into the complaints against Homerethegreat. I had not seen those particular diffs when considering sanctions against you.
:::{{u|Sluzzelin}}, The ] policy says {{tq|Every user is expected to interact with others civilly, calmly, and in a spirit of cooperation. Do not insult, harass, or intimidate those with whom you have a disagreement. Rather, approach the matter intelligently and engage in polite discussion. If another user behaves in an uncivil, uncooperative, or insulting manner, or even tries to harass or intimidate you, this does not give you an excuse to respond in kind. Address only the factual points brought forward, ignoring the inappropriate comments, or disregard that user entirely. If necessary, point out gently that you think the comments might be considered uncivil, and make it clear that you want to move on and focus on the content issue. If a conflict continues to bother you, take advantage of Misplaced Pages's dispute resolution process. There are always users willing to mediate and arbitrate disputes between others.}} and the enforcement procedure at ] says {{tq|Within contentious topics, you must edit carefully and constructively, refrain from disrupting the encyclopedia, and... comply with all applicable policies and guidelines; follow editorial and behavioural best practice}}. It's not should, it is ''must''. ] (]) 16:07, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
:Reading and taking on board the responses of the administrators below, and in the interest of wrapping this up, I'll propose a compromise. I'll cut the duration of the topic ban to 30 days, with a carve out for Nableezy to continue to assist {{np|Davidbena}} with their topic ban, with an assurance from Nableezy that they will moderate their tone and bring concerns about editor behavior to an uninvolved administrator or AE rather than engaging over behavior on talk pages.
:I think that's a fair compromise accounting for the administrator responses. If Nableezy agrees I'll implement the change, otherwise I'll leave it up to the admins responding. ] (]) 23:49, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

===Statement by Coretheapple===
I generally edit on popular culture nowadays. I started editing I/P about two weeks ago and found the atmosphere to be poisonous. I commend ScottishFinnishRadish for doing the hard work required to improve civility on that page.

When I began editing ], I made this comment on the talk page concerning an overlong paragraph: ''Perhaps what is being conveyed here can be described succinctly rather than reeling off what one media outlet after another said on this subject. The paragraph in question is overlong and disproportionate weight.''

Nableezy responded . ''Guess it was the right amount of weight when it pushed the lie hundreds of Hamas militants have surrendered to Israel ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. '' II was new to the page, had never interacted with this editor before. I had never edited that paragraph before. I had never "pushed the lie" to which he referred. This was not "exasperation." He was questioning my motives.

Nor was it an expression of "exasperation" when he Such personal attacks are no longer prevalent on that talk page ''entirely'' due to ScottishFinnishRadish and him alone. ] (]) 23:26, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

:It occurs to me that I have not directly addressed the topic ban. I agree with it. I believe that three months is not excessive and that a permanent Tban would not be unreasonable. The following statement appears on his user page as a userbox.
<blockquote>This user supports the right of all individuals and groups to violently resist military aggression and occupation by other parties, but due to an alleged consensus he is disallowed from naming particular individuals or groups which certain administrators find to be unacceptable.</blockquote>
:He also has a section on his user page called "Trip down memory lane," which further speaks to the battlefield behavior noted in the diffs. ] (]) 17:28, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

::Re the points raised by {{U|Novem Linguae}} and SFR, I wanted to clarify one point. If you check my contribs you can see that I have largely gone back to popular culture in the hope that things will cool off a bit, and they have not. The I/P subject area is pretty much hopeless in my view. It is not unusual, for instance, for editors to refer to Israel as the "Zionist entity" in talk page discussions, which is the kind of thing that poisons the atmosphere as well as potentially bringing the project into disrepute if not curbed. SFR's tough enforcement of civility (and he has addressed the "Zionist entity" issue) should be supported and not undermined if ] is to be more than a rumor in I/P. ] (]) 22:33, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

===Statement by Homerethegreat ===
Since I begun interacting with Nableezy I've felt a lack of understanding and respect and at times what has felt very clearly as complete lack of civility. Nableezy accused me of tag teaming ] without presenting evidence. I once wrote to Nableezy stating that I thought he/she/they had done a false edit summary and Nableezy responded with what really felt like a series of personal attacks ]. Nableezy said the following:
"You have, consistently across a range of pages, attempted to skew the leads of articles by adding whatever bullshit you can Google up and stuff it in to the lead without a thought as to weight or how poorly you make the lead read. "

He also said this:
" your complaint here is as low quality as most of your edits. "
Nableezy's inability to explain without using derogative terms and his negative style alarmed me.

In another edit the user said the following]:
"...Both are accused of ongoing war crimes whereas France and those other countries you keep pretending like this compares to is not. Sorry, but no I do not need to accept your chosen framing in which you can fill the lead of Hamas with all sorts of hysteria..."
From this and other edits arouse the feeling of the inability for I and other users that do not think the same as Nableezy to cooperate since Nableezy's communications were negative in their style and tone were derogatory.

I have also seen Nableezy react in a way that can be insulting and also shows behavior that seems unaccepting and seems to show a mentality that does not accept cooperating with users that think differently (in his responses to BilledMammal)].
"So you’re saying the UN secretary general said there is no bias? Cool cool. The section you linked to is filled with garbage sources like UN Watch, and you want to pretend like it should be treated as objective fact. Again, gaslighting, the abuser claims to be the victim to make you disbelieve anything said against them. Next you’ll tell me Btselem is antisemitic too."

"The only people claiming a bias against Israel are highly partisan sources. It is gaslighting, an attempt to shield criticism by claiming to be the victim"
I've also seen Nableezy interact with other users in a way which is at minimum disrespectful.

Overall from very early on I have felt insulted and attacked by Nableezy at times resulting in a personal attack on me as a person. Over time this behavior seems to have worsened. There's no doubt Nableezy is a significant contributor to Misplaced Pages and has spent extraordinary amounts of time working on the encyclopedia. Perhaps it is really best for a 3 month cooling period so that the user can contribute with freshened mentality and politeness.
] (]) 16:30, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

===Statement by Eladkarmel ===
I have known Nableezy for several years now. There is no doubt that this is an editor who invested a lot of effort and time in Misplaced Pages and has good contributions, but I also saw that this is a person who knows how to get stressed and behave aggressively towards other editors. I think his assault on Dovidroth was really the straw that broke the camel's back. I have also seen the attacks on Homerethegreat and BilledMammal and I think this is also very, very problematic behavior and not what I would expect from other editors. I'm sorry that such a long-time editor behaves like this. I hope that a certain period of editing on other topics will help him calm down and also remember that in the end, real life is just as beautiful as Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 18:44, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

===Statement by Kire1975===
There is evidence of tag teaming, edit warring, ] taking and ] by {{u|Homerethegreat}}. There are already two discussions about this subject open on the ANI noticeboard ] and the NPOV noticeboard ]. ] (]) 18:20, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

===Statement by Zero0000===
Anyone who is not upset by the current war in the Middle East has a heart of stone. It is simply not humanly possible to cover it on wikipedia without a lot of argument, pushing of competing narratives, and occasional incivility. Instead of punishing editors who use a rude word now and then, we should acknowledge editors who honestly strive to maintain a high article standard. Nableezy is one of the leading lights in that respect, in line with his long eminent career here. Concerning his recent behavior, I refer to Levivich's answer with which I concur: between the warning and the TBAN, Nableezy's behavior was exemplary and there was no cause to escalate the warning to a TBAN. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 02:19, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

{{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}} chose to highlight a by bolding it. Actually, this example shows Nableezy being collegiate. {{u|Arminden}} is an excellent editor and both Nableezy and I have a lot of respect for his work here. I believe that respect is mutual. So when Arminden steps out of line, we don't rush to a noticeboard to get him banned, but instead we rush to his talk page to ask him to cool it. You can see from Nableezy's final "Take care" that his words are intended as friendly advice, tough love if you will. Nableezy and Arminden are not editing opponents except in rare moments. I also thought that Arminden needed strong advice just then, and my own admonition less than an hour later is . Arminden's response to the advice is . ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 06:37, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{Re|ScottishFinnishRadish}} We shouldn't tell our friends to stop being an ass when they are being an ass, on their personal talk pages? I find your opinion incomprehensible. In this example, Nableezy was helping Arminden, not being an ass to him. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 08:32, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

===Statement by Arminden===

I'm trying to stay out of these "trials by Wiki", even my own, and don't understand the lingo and system. I hope my entry is read, and not just as a reply to Zero: I'm hanging it in here because I fully agree with Zero. Don't know what block you're about to slap on Nableezy, but I don't think it would be productive. I appreciate his civility, especially as I'm considering myself to be someone who, like Nableezy, is trying to be rational & balanced on the I/P conflict (and escape it whenever possible). Still, I end up being more benevolent towards the concept of Israel and more critical of incessant pro-Palestinian Wiki activism than others (w/o any sympathy for Israeli one either), so often not on the same side as Nableezy. '''I'd much rather have him around than miss him'''. Read the last bit and toss the rest. ] (]) 22:41, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

===Statement by (involved editor 2)===

===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Nableezy ===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by Drmies====
I don't wish to speak/act like an administrator here, but I do have two cents' worth. First, I understand SFR's verdict, but second, I believe that Nableezy was by no means the worst in these exchanges, and their tone was more of exasperation than of a battleground mentality. Both sides were not totally equal here, and I think the project would benefit from having Nableezy back in the game. It would be very nice if we had more uninvolved editors and admins active in these areas who could speak words of warning before things get out of hand between editors. ] (]) 22:48, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

====Statement by Volunteer Marek====
Ah yes. “pattern of editing”. It’s one of those amorphous, ethereal, vague pretexts that are actually an admission of “I don’t really have any real diffs but I need to manufacture a reason here”. Especially when the diffs that are provided are such weak milquetoast as this. Some people see patterns - dragons, turtles, Jesus himself - in the clouds, others just see white fluff. Usually the “white fluff” people are right.

The above applies to not just Nableezy but a few others that caught a sanction here. All of these, with one possible exception, should be rescinded.<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 23:46, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

====Statement by Sluzzelin====
I wouldn't word it the way Volunteer Marek did, and I don't think ScottishFinnishRadish is ] ... yet I agree with Volunteer Marek that these topic bans should be rescinded. Everyone's exasperated regarding the war, and it's impossible not to feel exasperated when reading the talk pages of most articles about the war. These are editors, however, who do try very hard to follow reliable sources, policies, and to avoid personalizing their comments or making forum-type contributions. I think en.wp needs to endure the possibility of occasional over-the-top escalations in this heated area, and manage them case by case. I certainly find the duration of the topic bans far too long. In my view, there also appears to be an intention of even-handedness in the making of these bans, and therefore I ask for all of them to be cancelled. Peace. ---] ] 00:19, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see battleground behavior in the old diffs added by ScottishFinnishRadish at 15:19, 30 December 2023 (UTC). As mentioned somewhere above, there is a tone of exasperation, and context allows this exasperation to become relatable (to me), but battleground behavior? ---] ] 15:49, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
::Thank you, ], for your reply. I cannot fault your logic (nor do I ever find digs at other editors helpful, for the record). Having neglected to read policy recently (or closely), I guess I associate(d) "battleground behaviour" with where and how you enter a discussion too, which, I guess, implies attitude and intent, which, in turn, is not necessarily part of "behavior". I still don't think Nableezy's behavior warrants this topic ban, however, and this also has to do with having seen him reach out to editors he's in disagreement with, trying to find workable solutions, and also expressing empathy. ---] ] 00:58, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

====Statement by Objective3000 ====
AMPOL is a picnic on a perfect, spring day compared to A-I. Nableezy has 52,000 edits, many in CTOP areas, without a block in a dozen years. It’s difficult to see a recurring pattern here. The constant influx of POV editors, many SPA, in the most C of CTOPs is going to result in moments of exasperation. From a purely technical POV, I don’t think SFR was out of line and I am delighted that some admins spend some time where angels fear to tread. But Nableezy is not the cause of the problems in A-I and his presence is valuable in keeping these articles within the boundaries of Misplaced Pages guidelines. This will always ruffle feathers as many editors in such topics put their personal beliefs over our guidelines. Nableezy’s responses here may sound defensive and defensive sounding appeals don’t go over well on this page. But I would sound defensive in this case also. In my mind, the best result is quick termination of the sanction. ] (]) 15:02, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

:Besides the religious aspect, the likely difference between discussions in AMPOL and A-I is that people are dying on a daily basis, right now. Possibly hourly if you count deaths from injuries, illness, and starvation. Far higher rate than the barbaric war in Ukraine. In that atmosphere of immediacy, statements that may normally seem appropriate may appear as insensitive and draw intemperate responses. This is more likely to happen to someone who makes a large numbers of edits, some repetitive, like Homerethegreat’s 408 mainspace and 436 talk page edits related to this subject. To some extent we will have to live with this if we are to support current events articles. Perhaps it would be better if we handed out more 48 hour TBans and fewer 90 day TBans. Of course the number 48 could grow. ] (]) 18:22, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
::{{yo|Mistamystery }} {{tq|what does this have to do with Nableezy?}} Homerethegreat and you have edited the same 38 pages in the last 49 days related to Israel, largely being in agreement. Nableezy also edited 30 of those pages. I presume that's the perceived connection and the suggestion of tag teaming. Just what I've noticed. I have no opinion on any possible wrongdoing. ] (]) 18:44, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
:::{{yo|Mistamystery}} {{tq|Homerethegreat may be editing what he wishes, but taking a quick look myself just now at his edit history, it doesn't appear I have edited (short of a single vandalism revert) a single page this he has touched in a month, if not longer.}} Unless I'm mistaken, see:. Again, I make no claim of wrongdoing. ] (]) 19:25, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
::::{{yo|Mistamystery}}
::::*I made no {{tq|profoundly misleading assertion and highly distorted take.}}
::::*I made no accusation of tag teaming. My brief addition was simply to answer the questions on what this has to do with Nableezy and why tag teaming was presumed.
::::*The retaliatory Editor Interaction Analyser report you posted goes back years over numerous subjects. I have edited 1,549 pages and Nableezy 6,433 pages. It is hardly surprising that 93 are in common. Even the three minute gap included was three years ago and we were both removing separate vandalism edits.
::::*Removing text in an edit after it has received a response, pertinent to the response, is not kosher. One can strike text or add a follow up.
::::*Your edits must remain in your own section on this page.
::::*Before someone at a higher paygrade than I tells you; you might want to tone it down here and ]. And let us stop taking up admin time. ] (]) 20:32, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

====Statement by My very best wishes====
Nableezy is a reasonable contributor capable of admitting their mistakes, even though my interactions with him were unpleasant . I should admit such interactions convinced me not to edit the most contentious pages in this subject area, such as ]. ] (]) 17:10, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
:Is Nableezy a "net positive" in this subject area? I would say "yes", even though he is strongly "pro-Palestine". Does he always interact with others in polite and collegial matter? No, but everyone who wants to edit in this subject area should develop a very thick skin. ] (]) 23:19, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
:*Speaking directly on the action by ScottishFinnishRadish... Nableezy had previous sanctions, specifically in this subject area, and he was bringing many other contributors to WP:AE very recently. Therefore, I believe that no any warnings was required in this case, and whatever Nableezy did before the warning does count (I think the argument by Levivich below was unconvincing). Based on that, issuing the sanction by ScottishFinnishRadish was within his/her discretion and not unreasonable. ] (]) 15:16, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
:::Speaking on the latest diffs brought by ScottishFinnishRadish, they are typical examples of someone commenting on other contributors, rather than on content, at the article talk page. Even if an RfC was not properly framed (this is happening very often), one should simply ignore it or explain how it should be properly framed. ] (]) 16:06, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
::::Speaking on the content, I think our page ] could be improved. Consider the lead. The lead does not say in the first paragraph about the atrocities by Hamas that served as the ''casus belli'' for the war; it frames this as merely a "surprise attack". It does not say in the first paragraph the stated goals by Israel for the war (they appear only in the end of 3rd paragraph), but instead describes the Israel actions as a "retaliation". I tried to fix some of such issues, but decided not to edit this page after having a couple of unpleasant discussions with Nableezy , . ] (]) 17:00, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

==== Statement by Levivich ====
*]
*]
*

I read all 28, and 27 of them are 100% unproblematic in my view. The only one that is a little bit problematic is ], which in full is: {{tqq|there is an ongoing rfc about this, and youre putting contested claims in the narrative voice and the grammar is trash}}. Arguably, "grammar is trash" is not as nice as we want people to be. I'd suggest euphemisms, such as {{tqq|poor}} instead of {{tqq|trash}}, e.g.: {{tqq|poor grammar}}, {{tqq|poor edits}}, {{tqq|those poor editors}}, {{tqq|Levivich is a poor person}}.

The TBAN notification (linked above) cited three post-warning edits: ] (in which Nableezy apologizes for the "grammar is trash" comment {{tqq|Sorry, Ill try to be less harsh ...}}), ], and ]; I don't see a problem with any of these three edits, and one of them shows Nableezy rectifying the only one edit out of the 28 that I think is not 100% unproblematic.

I do not see any grounds for a TBAN in these 28 post-warning edits. If anything, the edits show that Nableezy heeded the warning; the one time he said something slightly unkind, he later apologized for it. The other 27 edits are Nableezy civilly and productively discussing content and policy issues in this topic area. I would go so far as to say that 27 out of the 28 edits show ''model'' behavior. The warning worked, so the TBAN is unnecessary to prevent disruption, and not having Nableezy edit in the topic area will make the topic area worse, not better. The TBAN should be overturned. ] (]) 18:22, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

:SFR, FWIW I think you misunderstood the "dude chill" thing: it's either a "dude chill" or it's a warning, but it can't be both by definition. I see "dude chill" comments in your recent list of diffs, and the only warning is the last one (the one that says "this is now a warning," which I read to mean it was your first warning). But now you're characterizing earlier dude chill comments as repeated warnings. Not every expression that someone is doing something you don't like constitutes a "warning." For example, "knock it off" is not a warning, it's a "dude chill." I see a significant lack of diffs after the clear warning (the last one). "Grammar is trash" is just not that bad, it was apologized for, and it's one edit out of 28. One apologized-for comment post-warning is not so disruptive to require a TBAN. It doesn't show the continuation of a pattern, but a change in the pattern. (Really, none of these diffs are that bad, and none involve misrepresenting sources or making stuff up, which is far worse than calling people out for misrepresenting sources or making stuff up.) I am rather shocked that you look at the AN thread and you see a bilateral problem and not a unilateral one. "People arguing" isn't something that needs to be stopped, and it's an unrealistic and impossible expectation. If one person is making stuff up and another person calls them out for it, TBANing them both for arguing is counterproductive. (And that drives away editors, too, y'know...) ] (]) 14:31, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

====Statement by Mistamystery (in response to Kire1975)====
Sorry - what does this have to do with Nableezy? I see that you yourself initiated one of the discussions you link to above.
It appears you are only commenting on this page because @] commented here and you followed his edits - not because of the arbitration action at hand. Please take care not to engage in actions that may be perceived as ], ], and ].

Unless you have edits to make to your comment that are directly in regard to nableezy's appeal (or any of the other editors involved in the recent topic ban - of which the user you are referring to is not one of them), I respectfully recommend striking through or removing your above comment. ] (]) 00:09, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
:::Wow @]. If that's not a profoundly misleading assertion and highly distorted take on edit history. Homerethegreat may be editing what he wishes, but taking a quick look myself just now at his edit history, it doesn't remotely appear that I have touched any pages this user has been editing in any capacity or tempo that would give this impression - during the period of time you mention, if not longer. It's beyond a reach to imply otherwise. (and even a cursory review of the distance of time between edits using the edit comparison tool you cite also proves my point)
:
:::We're all in the same community working on the same pages and topics. I run into nableezy all the time (or more specifically, he more often runs into me). I do not take kindly to such an assertion (as much as you would like to say you "have no opinion", the sheer posting of such the above posits otherwise).
:
:::I stand firmly on my comment below. I simply came here to check in on the status of the Nableezy conversation, only to find an outside user clearly canvassing regarding accusations related to an uninvolved editor being made on two separate noticeboards, initiated by two separate users who were egging each other on on one of the boards - showing (what is likely) clear evidence of tagteaming against the user. So I called it out, plain and simple. ] (]) 19:07, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
::::I have revised my reply below to better reflect a more thorough review of edit histories.
::::
::::Invoking this tool does not prove any effective point except my own. To use the word "tag teaming" in a post that includes me, when citing a tool that shows clearly that more than 50% of edit crossover had at least a day's gap, with 17 of the edits cited happening more than a *week* apart reveals nothing more than general (and usual) activity by engaged users in a dynamic topic area filled with similar users doing just the same. This makes no further point than my initial reply - this is very much overreach. ] (]) 19:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::For comparison:
::::::
:::::I not only make no claim of wrongdoing, I never in a million years would take edit comparisons such as these and even remotely invoke language so as to imply there is malfeasance or collusion at hand (despite the fact that, in this case, there are actually *more* instances of follow-up edits in less than a day's time than the initial link provided)
::::::
:::::Let's please keep our heads above the water and get back to the task at hand. ] (]) 20:07, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
::::::@] just making sure - is it clear that initial tag-teaming accusation I was referring to was an ] matter, that a user was dragging (inappropriately, I believed) onto this page?
:::::::
::::::For clarity, I'm referring to activity on these two pages being undertaken by two separate editors ], and ].
:
::::::It has nothing to do with this page at all, or nableezy, or any prior tag-teaming accusation involving any of the editors currently under sanction of discussion. Unless it was unintentional (or out of confusion as to what I was referring to) to use the word tag teaming and then mention my own edit history when I was not the target of any tag teaming accusations was neither kind nor appropriate. ] (]) 20:51, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

====Statement by Crampcomes====
Sanctioning {{userlinks|Nableezy}} for 90 days for such trivial matters at a time when there's an ongoing Israel-Hamas war will do more damage to Misplaced Pages than good. Nableezy has been contributing to Israel-Hamas related articles in Misplaced Pages for years and is therefore one of the more knowledgeable editors with regard to Israel-Hamas related articles in Misplaced Pages, and he's also well-versed with regard to Misplaced Pages rules and policies. ] is an ongoing war and as such the article is evolving very fast. There are a bunch of pro-Palestinian and pro-Israeli editors trying to add content that do not comply with Misplaced Pages rules. As evident from the ], Nableezy has been one of the few editors who has been trying hard to keep the article balanced, neutral as well as in compliance with the Misplaced Pages policies. His absence from the currently fast-evolving ] article and other related articles for 90 days will do way more damage to Misplaced Pages than good. Thank you and best regards.] (]) 16:13, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

====Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)====

===Result of the appeal by Nableezy===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' :''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the contentious topics log below where their sanctions is logged. --> <!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
* This sanction is unfortunate - because in general I feel like Nableezy is one of the editors in the area to most often to bring good sources to the table and make policy based arguments. But there are also a lot of hostile comments lately, so I understand why SFR imposed the topic ban. I'm open to shortening the topic ban or lifting it, but I'm concerned by the lack of recognition of Nableezy of any problems in their comments and editing (and e.g. even doubling down on the calling an edit "trash" comment). I think if Nableezy can take {{u|HJ Mitchell}}'s advice in that'd be good. ] (]) 17:27, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
-->
* I really don't see why it's ever necessary to call someone's work "trash". Even if the edit was made in bad faith there are still better ways of phrasing criticism. That said, Nableezy has ] to heal the hurt feelings, which should be taken into account here. I agree with the above comments that Nableezy is one of the more reasonable editors in this topic area, and removing them entirely would have a negative effect on content. But we do need Nableezy, and all the other good-faith editors, to do their part to lower the temperature whenever possible. It is also clear that we need more uninvolved editors and admins in this topic area. SFR has been doing incredible work, often alone, and I admire their patience and fortitude. I can certainly understand why they issued this sanction, but I would also like to see if repealed. – ] 18:34, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
:The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. ] (]/]) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
* While I might not have issued the exact lengths of this TB, I am not going to second guess the admin who is striving to enforce some semblance of proper behavior. I do understand that passions are running high in the topic area and I understand why, but that doesn't mean that we should let things get worse in the editing area. Thank you to SFR for being willing to step in and I don't see a need to overturn the TB. ] (]) 19:33, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
* I see multiple diffs of an abrasive tone being used by this editor. It is not very collegial to communicate using words such as "trash", "garbage", "gaslighting", and "bullshit". This kind of tone is probably intended to drive "bad" editors away, but probably also drives good editors away, and is probably the kind of thing SFR is trying to fix in this topic area. –] <small>(])</small> 20:29, 28 December 2023 (UTC) :I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Re: "gaslighting". Sure, it was about a source rather than an editor, but it may still be a good idea to avoid it. Certain words raise the temperature. –] <small>(])</small> 21:07, 28 December 2023 (UTC) ::Given that AstroGuy0 has already been issued a warning, I don't think anything further is necessary, and will close as such unless any uninvolved admin shortly objects. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 18:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
*{{ping|Volunteer Marek}} Please be mindful that ] is one of the expectations in pages such as AE. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 01:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
*: To comment on the issue at hand, I agree with others who said above that Nableezy is a net positive to the project and to the contentious topic areas they edit. This does not give them carte blanche to be belligerent towards other editors, raising the temperature of an already hot topic and creating an unwelcoming ambient for new editors. While I think the tban was justified, I wouldn't mind reducing its length if Nableezy can show they understand their behavior was not up to the standards we expect from editors in contentious topics. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 02:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
*::@], I think you are missing a "not". – ] 03:14, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
*:::Thanks, ]. <small>Not by me, though, which left me very confused for a while.</small> ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 14:06, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
*:{{ping|Mistamystery|Objective3000}} Unless you two can show the importance of Homerethegreat to this discussion, I'll ask that you stop replying to each other as completely off-topic. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 21:03, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
* Per Levivich's evidence, I'm unconvinced this is a suitable TBAN. I completely understand why SFR did it, and I think the rest of their actions are correct, but not this one. ] 23:26, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
* Agree with Black Kite. Per Nableezy's explanations and Levivich's analysis I think this one at least can be lifted. The topic bans were issued together but each needs to stand on their own merits. The others have a stronger diff basis and should stay. And regardless of this appeal outcome, thanks to SFR for wading in help preserve the editing environment in this very difficult topic area. -- ] (]) 23:44, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
*I also agree with Black Kite. I had been waiting to see if anyone disputed Levivich's evidence but, as expected, that has not happened. Likewise, thanks to SFR and I can see why both sides got a tban but 90 days for Nableezy is not needed given the evidence. ] (]) 03:05, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Iennes==
{{hat|1={{nobold|1=Iennes' appeal is declined. Iennes, I would recommend that you spend 3–6 months familiarizing yourself with other parts of Misplaced Pages, until you are able to come back and explain what went wrong here and why we can be confident that you will be able to edit constructively in the topic area. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]&#93;</sup> <small>(they&#124;xe&#124;she)</small> 01:05, 31 December 2023 (UTC)}}}}
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Iennes}} – ] (]) 06:03, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

; Sanction being appealed : ]

; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}}

; Notification of that administrator : ]

===Statement by Iennes===

No "final warning" message had been sent to me before the call.
On December 25, after realizing that the number of Palestinian casualties was obsolete (18,600 instead of 20,000) in the lead of an article, I tried to correct it and soon realized it was impossible to edit in the actual article as some people had decided to create a template to control that information and let it on December 20. So I wrote this message on the talk page to let them know that they not only abused of their editing skill but it was made on purpose to delay any update.. The template was only updated on December 26, this very slow reaction in editing the right number of casualties is not at the level of wiki. I was about to tone down the message the day after but the sanction had already arrived.

One week before on December 14, I wrote messages on this article talk page and then got messages from SFR on my talk page. The reply I had written to SFR on my talk page had been instantly erased a few minutes right after, so it was supposed to not be read anymore and yet SFR dug it the day after , to use it in the sanction report. The right to oblivion for a personal message on a personal page exists. it is unfair and unreceivable to mention his reply to this as soon withdrawn message in his present sanction, this is a convenient help to reach the three mistakes.

Directly giving an endless ban sanction is inappropriate, it has to be graduated.
I am engaging myself here to comment on content and only on content from now on, and not write comments on users in any case anymore. I didn't disorganize wiki, I edited / added content with good quality sources in those articles. . So I would like to see this sanction reduced.
* note: ] I only learnt that it was due to a template the day after when someone explained it on the talk page of the article. ] (]) 06:50, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
:Either someone is entirely banned of wiki for a certain time, either they are not; or why they are just not allowed to add any comment on a talk page. A refusal of editing (when there was no problem when editing on those articles) goes against freedom of speech. ] (]) 07:30, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
:Some say ] ? The fact is that in the present time many people have chosen to learn about this war via wiki, in particular students who do not wish to read and hear talking points from press agents. they want to read all sensibilities, they read less the media with a bias. Death figures are an issue in this war because both sides have been accused of downplaying them. The figure of 20,000 victims reached at Christmas is a figure which has a highly symbolic significance in the collective unconscious. Other users before me also wrote on December 24 that they didn't understand why we couldn't modify the intro from the article, and they couldn't find the way to achieve this either . ] (]) 09:15, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
::Isabelle Belato, said Competence is required whereas someone sent me last month '''The Auckland Museum Wiki-Award''' for creating an article with the comment '''Wonderful work!'''. I didn't write that "readers don't want to read the news", that is distorting my words and twisting my thought, I wrote that the students, "they read less the media with a bias" and want to read all sensibilities and different views, which is what wiki is about, ]. Neutrality is what I did in all the edits at these articles, these edits were certainly not incompetent but obviously she didn't check out the "neutral point of view" edits I did when enriching the content of those articles. {{u|Isabelle Belato}} you can't send the Competence is required stamp whereas I didn't deteriorate the content of wiki. We are not here to receive a harsh tag. ] (]) 17:10, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
:::{{u|bradv}}, this comment was an inappropriate over the top message. the sanction must be just for it, the rest of the messages on talk pages were not written that way in that tone. I invite you to also check out the edits I did in the articles and the edit summaries, this proves that I can handle editing there and having a second chance. and I did engage here to only comment about content at the talk pages articles. ] (]) 17:23, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

===Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish===

===Statement by (involved editor 1)===

===Statement by (involved editor 2)===

===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Iennes ===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by Philipnelson99====
I agree with ]. Throwing around accusations over something like this doesn't really appear good for you since the sanction was based on ]. Also since when is making a template a tactic to delay an update to an article? and even so, Misplaced Pages is ]. To say a single out of date figure is "not up to the level of wiki" makes no sense to me and to accuse the template creators of deliberately trying to prevent you from making an edit makes me believe the sanction imposed by SFR was warranted especially after browsing through your recent contribution history. ] (]) 07:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

====Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)====

===Result of the appeal by Iennes===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the contentious topics log below where their sanctions is logged. -->
*You know you could've just edited the template at ] instead of accusing people of censorship? Doubling down on your ] mentality in your appeal isn't helping your case. Looking at your overall the editing in the area the number of battlegroundy accusations is enough to make me think this tban is warranted. ] (]) 06:42, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
*From reading the comments left by {{u|Iennes}} in this appeal alone, I think the topic ban was well-justified. Jumping straight to calling editors "pro israeli" and saying they highjacked the article and are trying to censor it shows a lack of ], ] on how templates work and, of course, ]. This is all compounded by further comments they make here, citing the ban infringes on their freedom of speech and the need to keep the article up to date because readers don't want to read the news. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 14:32, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
*Complaining about ] and ], while posting comments calling others ] suggests to me you have neither the experience nor the temperament necessary to edit this highly-contentious topic area. – ] 16:52, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
*I would decline the appeal. Frustration is very understandable but contributors need much more composure than shown in the diffs at ], particularly after a warning. An appeal after six months might succeed if there were an acknowledgment of the problem. ] (]) 03:14, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
* This editor doesn't yet understand the conduct policies surrounding this incredibly contentious topic, or even conduct policies in general, which isn't surprising since they haven't actually edited much/regularly until a couple of months ago. Iennes, editing in this topic area is not a great idea if you don't understand that there's no requirement for a "final warning", if you don't understand that having a template in place has zero relation to censorship, if you think it's a good idea to argue ''right here at AE'' that the template "was made on purpose to delay any update", if you don't understand that indefinite doesn't mean "endless". This is a topic area that has many, many experienced editors with diverse points of view who are working actively, so inexperienced editors aren't really needed, especially if they aren't getting themselves up to speed on all these behavioral policies. Go work somewhere less contentious and learn what you need to know to be able to edit in this kind of area, come back with more experience after a period of productive non-problematic editing, and appeal again. ] (]) 22:11, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
{{hab}} {{hab}}


==Lemabeta==
==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Toa Nidhiki05==

<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved {{SAFESUBST:<noinclude />#ifeq: {{SAFESUBST:<noinclude />PAGENAME}} | Administrators noticeboard | editors | administrators}}" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small>

<small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small>

; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Toa Nidhiki05}} – '''] ]''' 16:31, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

; Sanction being appealed : Indefinite topic ban from post-1992 American politics, imposed at ], logged at ]

; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|Guerillero}}

; Notification of that administrator :

===Statement by Toa Nidhiki05===
This is my second appeal of this sanction; the last was over six months ago. Like I said then, I believe my behavior that led to the sanction was embarrassing and not befitting of what productive behavior in the topic area looks like. We can all agree, I think, that AP2 doesn't need that sort of behavior, and while I don't believe I was the only one at fault in the dispute, my behavior is the only thing that I can control. Since the topic ban a year ago, I've avoided disruptive behavior and have focused on productive editing, including routine cleanup of articles but also full-scale rewrites of articles like ] and ]. I've also worked productively on the BLP ], where I productively helped work on resolving conflicts and reaching consensus. This would be the approach I would take going forward in the AP2 area if this topic ban were to be lifted.

I do feel like I have made valuable contributions in this area and the encyclopedia as a whole, and I'd love to be able to contribute productively to AP2 in the future. Like I've said previously - I would be more than open to alternatives that allow me to engage productively in this area. If a full lifting of the sanction isn't something you're willing to consider, I'd be more than open to something like a 1RR restriction that would allow me to productively contribute again. '''] ]''' 16:31, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

===Statement by Guerillero ===

===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Toa Nidhiki05 ===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>

====Statement by GoodDay====
An editor deserves a chance to prove themselves. Toa' t-ban shouldn't continue if they've promised to not be disruptive in future in that area & hasn't been disruptive in other areas. We must ask ourselves, at what point does a preventative measure morph into a punitive measure. ] (]) 16:40, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

====Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)====

===Result of the appeal by Toa Nidhiki05===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the contentious topics log below where their sanctions is logged. -->
*

==Wikieditor19920==
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> <small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Wikieditor19920=== ===Request concerning Lemabeta===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|MarioGom}} 00:31, 1 January 2024 (UTC) ; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|EF5}} 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Wikieditor19920}}<p>{{ds/log|Wikieditor19920}}</p> ; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Lemabeta}}<p>{{ds/log|Lemabeta}}</p>


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ] and ] ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : ; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.--> <!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
#: Seems particularly relevant since the original AMPOL2 ban was triggered by edits related to Andy Ngo . # - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
#: Clear cut ARBPIA violation. # - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.
#: Edit about US foreign policy, which violates AMPOL2 topic ban.
#: It might not be strictly an ARBPIA violation, but it walks the line if broadly construed. This is particularly concerning since this comes after a warning about ARBPIA which the editor replied to with sarcasm , and it does not seem they have any intention to respect any of the topic bans.


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
#: AMPOL2 topic ban
#: ARBPIA topic ban.


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
This comes after I checked this edit {{diff2|1186007482}} which I partially reverted {{diff2|1192897079}}. It changed the text to reflect ''exactly the opposite'' the cited source claimed. This went undetected for quite some time and it shows the editor still cannot engage in contentious areas.
:On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

:(Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:: <small>Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. ] (]/]) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)</small>
::(RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->

<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. ---> <!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->

===Discussion concerning USERNAME===
===Discussion concerning Lemabeta===
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
====Statement by USERNAME====

====Statement by Lemabeta====
Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --] (]) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

:Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are '''related but distinct concepts'''. An ''ethnographic group'' refers to a '''community of people''' defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, ''cultural heritage'' refers to the *''practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past''. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
:So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. ] (]) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) '''emerges from''' ethnographic groups but '''does not define the group itself'''. ] (]) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. ] (]) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. ] (]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)==== ====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. --> <!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning USERNAME=== ===Result concerning Lemabeta===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.'' :''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. --> <!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
*
-->
* I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under ] from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". ] (] • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:<br><nowiki>;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]</nowiki><br><nowiki><!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---></nowiki> ] (]/]) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*{{tq| Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed"}} @]: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. ] (]/]) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Note that I've deleted ] as a clear G5 violation. I think ] is a bit more of a questionable G5. ] (]/]) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared&nbsp;... traditions" and "shared&nbsp;... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". ] (]/]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. ] (]/]) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. ] (]/]) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. ] (]/]) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: They were "reviously given&nbsp;... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. ] (]/]) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
* {{re|Lemabeta}} Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words {{tqq| highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity}}. There's a reason we use the words "]" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?){{pb}}This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*{{u|EF5}}, I don't understand your {{tq|"Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above"}} statement, can you please explain what it refers to? ]? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
:That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by ]. I'll AGF that they ''were'' accidental, but OTOH, they surely ''ought'' to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? ] &#124; ] 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
::{{u|EF5}}, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are ], and the block log only logs blocks. ] &#124; ] 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).

Latest revision as of 03:34, 9 January 2025

"WP:AE" redirects here. For other uses, see WP:AE (disambiguation).
Noticeboards
Misplaced Pages's centralized discussion, request, and help venues. For a listing of ongoing discussions and current requests, see the dashboard. For a related set of forums which do not function as noticeboards see formal review processes.
General
Articles,
content
Page handling
User conduct
Other
Category:Misplaced Pages noticeboards

    Click here to add a new enforcement request
    For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
    See also: Logged AE sanctions

    Important informationShortcuts

    Please use this page only to:

    • request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
    • request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic,
    • request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or
    • appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators.

    For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard.

    Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

    To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

    Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

    The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

    All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

    The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

    1. ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
    2. request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
    3. submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

    Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

    A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

    Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

    An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

    • The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change, or is no longer an administrator; or
    • The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
      • the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
      • the restriction was an indefinite block.

    A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

    • a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
    • a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
    • a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

    Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

    Standard of review
    On community review

    Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

    1. the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
    2. the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
    3. the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.
    On Arbitration Committee review

    Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

    1. the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
    2. the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
    3. compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.
    1. The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
    2. This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.
    Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

    The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

    Appeals by sanctioned editors

    Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

    1. ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
    2. request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
    3. submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-en@wikimedia.org).
    Modifications by administrators

    No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

    1. the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
    2. prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

    Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

    Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

    Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

    Important notes:

    1. For a request to succeed, either
    (i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or
    (ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA
    is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.
    2. While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
    3. These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
    4. All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.
    Information for administrators processing requests

    Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

    A couple of reminders:

    • Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
    • When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
    • Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Misplaced Pages and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
    • More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

    Closing a thread:

    • Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
    • Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
    • You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
    • Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

    Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

    Arbitration enforcement archives
    1234567891011121314151617181920
    2122232425262728293031323334353637383940
    4142434445464748495051525354555657585960
    6162636465666768697071727374757677787980
    81828384858687888990919293949596979899100
    101102103104105106107108109110111112113114115116117118119120
    121122123124125126127128129130131132133134135136137138139140
    141142143144145146147148149150151152153154155156157158159160
    161162163164165166167168169170171172173174175176177178179180
    181182183184185186187188189190191192193194195196197198199200
    201202203204205206207208209210211212213214215216217218219220
    221222223224225226227228229230231232233234235236237238239240
    241242243244245246247248249250251252253254255256257258259260
    261262263264265266267268269270271272273274275276277278279280
    281282283284285286287288289290291292293294295296297298299300
    301302303304305306307308309310311312313314315316317318319320
    321322323324325326327328329330331332333334335336337338339340
    341342343344345346347

    PerspicazHistorian

    PerspicazHistorian is blocked indefinitely from mainspace. Seraphimblade 03:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning PerspicazHistorian

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    PerspicazHistorian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBIPA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 17:57, 18 December 2024 - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of Hindutva (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
    2. 17:59, 18 December 2024 - tag bombed the highly vetted Hindutva article without any discussion or reason
    3. 10:15, 18 December 2024 - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
    4. 12:11, 18 December 2024 - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting reverted
    5. 17:09, 18 December 2024 - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
    6. 18:29, 18 December 2024 - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
    7. 14:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP."
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    • Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. Nxcrypto Message 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit here by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to MOS:TERRORIST. Nxcrypto Message 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by PerspicazHistorian

    • By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu Page.

    I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before User: Ratnahastin told me about this: User_talk:PerspicazHistorian. Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.

    • In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to Edit_warring#What_edit_warring_is it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of Misplaced Pages:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle.
    • As a clarification to my edit on Students' Islamic Movement of India, it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this edit. I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
    @Valereee, Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What edit warring is#Other revert rules. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes, I will commit to that. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. Seraphimblade 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when Satish R. Devane was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Hi @Doug Weller , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
    P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.Valereee (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • 1) I just asked an user @Fylindfotberserk if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
    2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    even @NXcrypto is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. see1see2 PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    as mentioned by @Valereee before, Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Valereee I once filed a complaint to find it @NXcrypto is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) moving to correct section Valereee (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
    2) My main interest in editing is Hinduism and Indian History topics.
    3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
    Please do not block me. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @Bishonen I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Vanamonde93@Bishonen I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned here. PPicazHist (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee@UtherSRG I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
      The article prasada doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about Misplaced Pages:CIR, I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! PPicazHist (talk) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
      @UtherSRG You mean to say, "The prasada is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, fruits and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the temple. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. " is not copy pasted by this website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? PPicazHist (talk) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
      @ UtherSRG I just asked others to share their opinion in the enforcement. With all due respect, I don't think its wrong in any sense. PPicazHist (talk) 15:13, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
      To all the admins involved here,
      • I agree to keep learning and apologize if my previous edits/replies have annoyed the admins.
      • I have not edit warred since a month and please see it as my willingness to keep learning and getting better.
      • Please give me a chance, I understand concern of you all and respect your opinion in the matter. But please don't block me from editing from main article space. I promise that I will abide by all the rules and will learn from other editors.
      PPicazHist (talk) 15:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by LukeEmily

    PerspicazHistorian also violated WP:BRD by engaging in an edit war with Ratnahastin who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.LukeEmily (talk)

    Statement by Doug Weller

    I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and User:Deb's comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving Draft:Satish R. Devane to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. Deb (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. Doug Weller talk 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... Doug Weller talk 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Toddy1

    This is another editor who appears to have pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-Republican views, but allowed Democrat-activists to say whatever they liked.

    A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.

    If we want to talk about WP:CIR when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .

    A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.

    I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Capitals00

    I find the comment from Toddy1 to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like False or misleading statements by Donald Trump.

    You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user only for your own mental relief. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "seek to censor" this editor due to his "pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure WP:BOOMERANG is coming for you. Capitals00 (talk) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Vanamonde93

    Toddy1: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.

    That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. This edit is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. Baji Pasalkar, entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ("first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya", and poor sources (like this blog, and this book, whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. Appa (title), also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.

    I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. Bishonen If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by UtherSRG

    I've mostly dealt with PH around Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ankur Warikoo (2nd nomination). They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the standard offer when they can demonstrate they no longer have WP:CIR issues. - UtherSRG (talk) 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    Based on these two edits, I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in WP:CIR territory here. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    This is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning PerspicazHistorian

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    PerspicazHistorian, can you explain your understanding of WP:edit warring and the WP:3RR rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring even if they aren't breaking 3RR. Valereee (talk) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    @PerspicazHistorian, that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is the first time someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
    Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH; in their revert NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. Valereee (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? Valereee (talk) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. Valereee (talk) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. Valereee (talk) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources. The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit yesterday, after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
    The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. Valereee (talk) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    • A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. Bishonen | tålk 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
      Vanamonde93, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we are in CIR territory; just look at PH's recent supposed evidence on this page for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. Bishonen | tålk 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
    • Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? Barkeep49 (talk) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
      I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • It looks to me like there is a consensus for an indefinite partial block for PerspicazHistorian from article space. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within a day or so, I will close as such. Seraphimblade 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
      Given PH's recent slew of requests on multiple admin talk pages, yes, please do. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    References

    1. "Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God". GaneshaSpeaks. Retrieved 2024-12-30.
    2. "What Is Prashad". Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj. Retrieved 2024-12-30.

    LaylaCares

    There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning LaylaCares

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Vice regent (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    LaylaCares (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ARBPIA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 13:54, December 17, 2024 EC gaming


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of this article on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).VR (Please ping on reply) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning LaylaCares

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by LaylaCares

    Statement by Aquillion

    Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be WP:G5-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail on the CSD talk page, since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --Aquillion (talk) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Dan Murphy

    Please look at Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.Dan Murphy (talk) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by starship.paint

    I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, click this link. starship.paint (talk / cont) 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning LaylaCares

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Aquillion: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      I don't think the wording of WP:ECR allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. (ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.) That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making real, substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. Seraphimblade 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag is an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    AstroGuy0

    AstroGuy0 has been issued a warning for source misrepresentation by Voorts. No other reviewers have expressed any wish for further action. Seraphimblade 06:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning AstroGuy0

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Hemiauchenia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    AstroGuy0 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics/Race and intelligence

    (Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour")

    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 03:19, 4 January 2025 Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once.
    2. 01:40, 4 January 2025 Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani"
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Made aware of contentious topics criterion: 01:52, 4 January 2025
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Additional comments by editor filing complaint:

    This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Discussion concerning AstroGuy0

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by AstroGuy0

    Statement by Iskandar323

    This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. Iskandar323 (talk) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning AstroGuy0

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. Seraphimblade 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Given that AstroGuy0 has already been issued a warning, I don't think anything further is necessary, and will close as such unless any uninvolved admin shortly objects. Seraphimblade 18:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    Lemabeta

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Lemabeta

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    EF5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Lemabeta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 5 Jan 2025 - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
    2. 4 Jan 2025 - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. EF 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. EF 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Here

    Discussion concerning Lemabeta

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Lemabeta

    Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --Lemabeta (talk) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are related but distinct concepts. An ethnographic group refers to a community of people defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, cultural heritage refers to the *practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
    So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) emerges from ethnographic groups but does not define the group itself. Lemabeta (talk) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. Lemabeta (talk) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Lemabeta

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under a topic ban imposed by a consensus of AE admins from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:
      ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
      <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> voorts (talk/contributions) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" @Lemabeta: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Note that I've deleted Draft:Rachvelians as a clear G5 violation. I think Mate Albutashvili is a bit more of a questionable G5. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared ... traditions" and "shared ... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". voorts (talk/contributions) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Tamzin: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @EF5: They were "reviously given ... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Lemabeta: Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity. There's a reason we use the words "broadly construed" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?)This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • EF5, I don't understand your "Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above" statement, can you please explain what it refers to? This T-ban? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
    That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by their apology for "accidental violations". I'll AGF that they were accidental, but OTOH, they surely ought to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? Bishonen | tålk 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
    EF5, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are very different, and the block log only logs blocks. Bishonen | tålk 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).