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Revision as of 01:14, 3 January 2024 editSzirtyu (talk | contribs)254 edits Ottoman HungaryTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit← Previous edit Latest revision as of 22:25, 4 January 2025 edit undoOrionNimrod (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users8,707 edits Middle Ages 
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== Spelling errors ==


== Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2024 ==
everything here has a few too many spelling errors ] (]) 15:35, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
:]. Since this page is semi-protected, make an ]. ] ]/] 18:02, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
:I just went through the entire article and made some spelling corrections, but there didn't seem to me to be all that many. I ignored the following possible changes, ''for now'', ''subject to discussion'':
:# Proper names of persons, places, etc., and words in other languages. This is beyond my knowledge. ], if those are the errors you refer to, and you can correct them, go for it.
:# British spellings, like labour and specialise. If the consensus is that they should be Americanized, I can go back and do that.
:# A few words that weren't in the online, free version of Merriam-Webster, or found in use in a Google search, but were in Wiktionary.
:] (]) 09:32, 16 May 2023 (UTC)


{{edit semi-protected|Hungary has became an absolute monarchy after King Victor I's coronation (former PM)|answered=yes}} {{edit semi-protected|Hungary|answered=yes}}
Please change, that the standard Hungarian is based on what people speak at Budapest. It is based on what they speak in Zemplén. That's what got standardised with the language revolution. Leaving local expressions and forms behind. ] (]) 18:08, 25 August 2024 (UTC)


:] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] <small> (]) </small> 02:42, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
] (]) 16:03, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 16:30, 10 May 2023 (UTC)


Technically both are true: standard Hungarian developed from the Northern Hungarian dialect, but the variety spoken in Budapest (and almost everywhere else except maybe the westernmost places and some territories outside current borders) is now identical to it. Will try to find sources but I'm not sure there'll be any English ones. – ]&nbsp;] 16:31, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
== Puzzled ==


== Semi-protected edit request on 16 September 2024 (3) ==


{{edit semi-protected|Hungary|answered=yes}}
I need to fix a spelling mistake . ] (]) 08:48, 16 September 2024 (UTC)


:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] <small> (]) </small> 02:44, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
What does this mean? "The vast majority of the seventeen and nineteen thousand Ottoman soldiers in service in the Ottoman fortresses in the territory of Hungary were Orthodox and Muslim Balkan Slavs rather than ethnic Turkish people." Maybe "seventeen TO nineteen"?


== Government info box ==
I would fix it if I knew what was intended, but I'm unsure. The reference is to a book, so I can't check it. ] (]) 07:03, 16 May 2023 (UTC)


Hello, I believe it should be noted in the government info box that the government of Hungary is currently authoritarian and autocratic but I wanted to be able to reach a consensus before adding anything. ] (]) 22:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
:It would be ok to change it to "thousands". The precise number doesn't add much value. ] 07:56, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


:Which sources call it autocratic? I do not think most political scientists would characterize it as such. Even the EIU Democracy Index still categorizes it as a 'flawed democracy'. Either way, per ], it is better to explain this in the text. ] (]) 10:59, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
== Connections to the "Eastern world" and Organization of Turkic States ==
:: calls Hungary "electoral autocracy" since 2020, but I agree that this is better discussed in the main text. ] (]) 11:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
A user repeteadly added the following text to the lead:
:::This category seems to include countries like Belarus, India, Russia and Ukraine, some of which have consolidated authoritarian regimes while others do not. I find it a bit strange that V-Dem has consistently categorized Russia as an electoral autocracy since 1991. ] (]) 11:37, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
: In recent times, Hungary has developed increasingly strong geopolitical ties with the ].<ref>{{Cite web |date=2023-08-21 |title=Orbán hosts Erdoğan and other eastern leaders on Hungary's National Day |url=https://www.euronews.com/2023/08/21/orban-hosts-erdogan-and-other-eastern-leaders-on-hungarys-national-day |access-date=2023-09-18 |website=euronews |language=en}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last= |first= |date=2023-07-01 |title=Government: Our policy of opening to the East is working |url=https://dailynewshungary.com/government-our-policy-of-opening-to-the-east-is-working/ |access-date=2023-09-18 |website=Daily News Hungary |language=en-US}}</ref> Since 2018, it has held observer status within the ].<ref>{{Cite web |title=ANALYSIS - Hungary in the Organization of Turkic States: A Bridge between East and West |url=https://www.aa.com.tr/en/analysis/analysis-hungary-in-the-organization-of-turkic-states-a-bridge-between-east-and-west/2424575 |access-date=2023-09-19 |website=www.aa.com.tr}}</ref>
This is a random piece of information that does not belong to the lead which should only give a very brief overview of the country. Referring to "eastern connections" is very vague and many western countries have much stronger ties, e.g., with China and India, than Hungary, yet, none of them have this in their lead. Referring to the Organization of Turkic States is even more irrelevant, as Hungary only has an observer status, and even full members do not have this information in the lead of their WP articles. Hungary is a full member of hundreds of various organizations, it does not make sense to randomly list one in which the country is only an observer. ] ] 15:46, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


==Middle Ages==
:Agree, that should be not in the lead, this user is new, probably he does not know the wiki standards. ] (]) 16:08, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
::For me this was very strange from that user, he claimed the Hungarian foods are Ottoman and Asian foods :D https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Hungarian_cuisine&diff=prev&oldid=1176615793 ] (]) 16:10, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
:::?? I did not introduce that claim about Hungarian food. It was another user that mentioned the Ottoman influence on Hungarian food, and claimed that Hungarian food was over a base of traditional elements from Central Asia. All I did was modify his edit to mention it as an influence rather than the foundation of Hungarian food. I wasn’t going to remove these additions, as they are not necessarily incorrect, Hungary’s cuisine was influenced by the Ottoman Empire. However, in relation to the eastern origins of the Hungarians, I do not know how much it influenced the cuisine. ] (]) 16:44, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
:I appreciate your comments, however, I still believe it was appropriate to mention it. It’s common knowledge that Hungary is very politically divided from the countries to its west, and, if you follow Hungarian politics, you will know that, Hungary is increasingly politically involved with countries to its East. ] (]) 16:48, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
::: This is a kind of political POV that should be avoided in WP, especially in the lead of a country. ] ] 18:10, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
::Sorry my mistake, it was another user https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hungarian_cuisine&diff=prev&oldid=1165108671 ] (]) 16:55, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


{{ping|Are2The2}} This is the only History section to include subsections. It also includes excessive detail for this high-level ] - discussion of genetics, for example, is best left to a subarticle. ] (]) 01:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk}}
==Length==


:I think the tag should have been placed higher if it relates to the section as a whole.
At nearly 15k words of readable prose, this article is quite long - it would benefit from being summarized and details shifted to subarticles, per ]. ] (]) 19:04, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
:The origins of the Hungarian conquerors is a significant detail. I summarised “genetic and linguistic evidence” as “research”. ] (]) 01:23, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

::Hi, I agree with ]. Morover I recognized a while ago that detailed edits of ] are just a selective cherry pickings. I dont think it is important here in a main country article that Byzantine sources called Hungary as Turcia 1100 years ago. It should be in sub articles. ] likes only the ] in 1718 which restored only a smaller last piece of Hungary while ] ended in 1699 (probably he likes mention that Turkish rule was longer in the entire country). At the moment "turn of 18th century" mention that thing in the short lead. While he removes for example the ] which was a really important Hungarian state during that period. I also observed that ] carefully cherry picking only the Siberian theory thing, spam this everywhere, even does not fit in this article, while he removed the mentioning the other areas from here: ], morover many of his sources were random to force this Siberia mania at any cost, as I checked already some, and I corrected some of them. As we can read in the source, Szeifert et al. 2022 proposed that most of the early Hungarian tribes originated from the Volga-Kama and Southern Ural regions, where they were composed of a mixed population. Despite, ] still use that source for his Siberia mania, however the source does not say that, this is clearly a bad fait edit. There are many genetic study about the origin of Hungarian conquerors, but ] did not like those one in other articles which were not supporting that Siberia thing. That is important, but not this country summary main article. ] (]) 01:37, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
== Ottoman Hungary ==
:::Yes, the vast majority of Hungary was ceded to the Habsburgs in 1699. My concern was simply that it was inaccurate to state that Hungary was reunited at the turn of the 18th century. Certain areas, albeit relatively small areas at the southern border, were still under Ottoman rule until the Treaty of Passarowitz in 1718. ] (]) 03:29, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

::::Hi, do you think “Hungary was not reunited” from the 3 pieces in 1699 (Royal Hungary, Ottoman Hungary, Principality of Transylvania: divided in 1541) just because a smaller part (Banat) did not recover yet just in 1718? <nowiki>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/File:Europe,_1700%E2%80%941714.png</nowiki> ] (]) 09:09, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Hi @], are you able to read Hungarian sources?
:::::Banat of Temeşvar, Belgrade and Syrmia. ] (]) 20:52, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

::::::Not only the Banat of Temeşvar. ] (]) 20:55, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
What is your opinion? @] @] @]
:::::::That bulge area: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe,_1700%E2%80%941714.png ] (]) 21:07, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Hungary&diff=prev&oldid=1193225987

I think the lead is just a short summarize of the events. Hungarian historiography holds the well known view "150 years Ottoman occupation" term (which we know is more or less number), all of them starts from 1541, when Buda was occupied and Hungary was split in three.

''"With the capture of Buda in 1541, Ottoman rule began in the central part of Hungary. But this rule was at first limited to the military occupation of a few fortified places. It took many years for the Turks to build up their public administration, the institutions that set the framework for their settlement here"''

"Central part' is a general broad term, this is a lead, the sub article has all details and maps: ]. ] was occupied in 1521, after ], some southern areas was occupied in ], but that are just border regions and Hungary was not occupied, but Hungary was destroyed and occupied by the date of 1541 by the ], and ] was recaptured in 1686, and after the ] in 1687, and finally by the ] Hungary was mostly recaptured and restored, only the Temes region remained udner Ottoman control until 1718 by the ]. Why should we care border areas in the lead? For example Belgrade was occupied by the Habsburgs 3 times just in 1700s. Should we talk about more "Ottoman Hungary" because of Belgrade? Because of a border area?

Should we say A country occupied B country or B country occupied A country just because the border regions always changed? ] (]) 19:37, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

:the Banat of Temeswar, Belgrade and Syrmia were occupied by the Ottomans until the Treaty of Passarowitz in 1718. Furthermore, after the Treaty of Karlowitz, it took time for some of the territories ceded to the Habsburgs under this treaty to actually be transferred from Ottoman to Habsburg rule. Whilst Buda was ruled between 1541 and 1699, it’s appropriate to specify the years 1526 and 1718 as the sentence describes the period during which the Kingdom was ''partially'' occupied. specifying only the period during which the central part was occupied could be misinterpreted in the way it was written. ] (]) 00:31, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 22:25, 4 January 2025

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Contradictory?

Under "Demographics" the number of Roma is given as 300,000. In the next line as a result of the census their number is given as 609,000. Which figure is correct? Or how is the difference explained?

Also: to my knowledge not all gipsies in Hungary are Roma. They are just the largest group. Hence the term "Roma" is regarded as an imposition by the smaller gipsy groups.

== Demography ==
=== Urbanization ===
 {{Main|List of cities and towns of Hungary}}
 {{Largest cities of Hungary}}
 {{copied |from =www.en.wikipedia/List of cities and towns of Hungary}}
 ]
] has 3,152 localities as of July 15, 2013. 346 towns (Hungarian term: ''város'', plural: ''városok''; the terminology doesn't distinguish between ] and ]s – the term town is used in official translations) and 2,806 villages (Hungarian: ''község'', plural: ''községek''). The number of towns can change, since villages can be elevated to town status by act of the President. The capital Budapest has a special status and is not included in any county while 23 of the towns are so-called urban counties (''megyei jogú város'' – town with county rights). All county seats except Budapest are urban counties.
Four of the cities (], ], ], and ]) have agglomerations, and the Hungarian Statistical Office distinguishes seventeen other areas in earlier stages of agglomeration development.<ref>http://portal.ksh.hu/portal/page?_pageid=37,412178&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL#sett</ref>
The largest city is the capital, Budapest, the smallest town is ] with 1038 inhabitants (2010). The largest village is ] (population: 10,123 as of 2010) There are more than 100 villages with fewer than 100 inhabitants while the smallest villages have fewer than 20 inhabitants.
{{reflist talk}}

Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please change, that the standard Hungarian is based on what people speak at Budapest. It is based on what they speak in Zemplén. That's what got standardised with the language revolution. Leaving local expressions and forms behind. 2001:4C4D:1E08:3800:5424:C1FF:DE22:E5D2 (talk) 18:08, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:42, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Technically both are true: standard Hungarian developed from the Northern Hungarian dialect, but the variety spoken in Budapest (and almost everywhere else except maybe the westernmost places and some territories outside current borders) is now identical to it. Will try to find sources but I'm not sure there'll be any English ones. – Alensha  16:31, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 September 2024 (3)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I need to fix a spelling mistake . 110.174.201.187 (talk) 08:48, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:44, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Government info box

Hello, I believe it should be noted in the government info box that the government of Hungary is currently authoritarian and autocratic but I wanted to be able to reach a consensus before adding anything. ErickTheMerrick (talk) 22:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Which sources call it autocratic? I do not think most political scientists would characterize it as such. Even the EIU Democracy Index still categorizes it as a 'flawed democracy'. Either way, per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, it is better to explain this in the text. Mellk (talk) 10:59, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
V-dem calls Hungary "electoral autocracy" since 2020, but I agree that this is better discussed in the main text. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 11:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
This category seems to include countries like Belarus, India, Russia and Ukraine, some of which have consolidated authoritarian regimes while others do not. I find it a bit strange that V-Dem has consistently categorized Russia as an electoral autocracy since 1991. Mellk (talk) 11:37, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Middle Ages

@Are2The2: This is the only History section to include subsections. It also includes excessive detail for this high-level summary article - discussion of genetics, for example, is best left to a subarticle. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

I think the tag should have been placed higher if it relates to the section as a whole.
The origins of the Hungarian conquerors is a significant detail. I summarised “genetic and linguistic evidence” as “research”. Are2The2 (talk) 01:23, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Hi, I agree with Nikkimaria. Morover I recognized a while ago that detailed edits of Are2The2 are just a selective cherry pickings. I dont think it is important here in a main country article that Byzantine sources called Hungary as Turcia 1100 years ago. It should be in sub articles. Are2The2 likes only the Treaty of Passarowitz in 1718 which restored only a smaller last piece of Hungary while Ottoman Hungary ended in 1699 (probably he likes mention that Turkish rule was longer in the entire country). At the moment "turn of 18th century" mention that thing in the short lead. While he removes for example the Principality of Transylvania which was a really important Hungarian state during that period. I also observed that Are2The2 carefully cherry picking only the Siberian theory thing, spam this everywhere, even does not fit in this article, while he removed the mentioning the other areas from here: Magyar tribes, morover many of his sources were random to force this Siberia mania at any cost, as I checked already some, and I corrected some of them. As we can read in the source, Szeifert et al. 2022 proposed that most of the early Hungarian tribes originated from the Volga-Kama and Southern Ural regions, where they were composed of a mixed population. Despite, Are2The2 still use that source for his Siberia mania, however the source does not say that, this is clearly a bad fait edit. There are many genetic study about the origin of Hungarian conquerors, but Are2The2 did not like those one in other articles which were not supporting that Siberia thing. That is important, but not this country summary main article. OrionNimrod (talk) 01:37, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Yes, the vast majority of Hungary was ceded to the Habsburgs in 1699. My concern was simply that it was inaccurate to state that Hungary was reunited at the turn of the 18th century. Certain areas, albeit relatively small areas at the southern border, were still under Ottoman rule until the Treaty of Passarowitz in 1718. Are2The2 (talk) 03:29, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Hi, do you think “Hungary was not reunited” from the 3 pieces in 1699 (Royal Hungary, Ottoman Hungary, Principality of Transylvania: divided in 1541) just because a smaller part (Banat) did not recover yet just in 1718? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/File:Europe,_1700%E2%80%941714.png OrionNimrod (talk) 09:09, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Banat of Temeşvar, Belgrade and Syrmia. Are2The2 (talk) 20:52, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Not only the Banat of Temeşvar. Are2The2 (talk) 20:55, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
That bulge area: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/File:Europe,_1700%E2%80%941714.png OrionNimrod (talk) 21:07, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
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