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Revision as of 19:45, 4 January 2024 editKaraynn (talk | contribs)117 edits →Ottoman Hungary: ReplyTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Reply← Previous edit Latest revision as of 22:25, 4 January 2025 edit undoOrionNimrod (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users8,707 edits →Middle Ages 
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== Puzzled ==


== Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2024 ==


{{edit semi-protected|Hungary|answered=yes}}
Please change, that the standard Hungarian is based on what people speak at Budapest. It is based on what they speak in Zemplén. That's what got standardised with the language revolution. Leaving local expressions and forms behind. ] (]) 18:08, 25 August 2024 (UTC)


:] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] <small> (]) </small> 02:42, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
What does this mean? "The vast majority of the seventeen and nineteen thousand Ottoman soldiers in service in the Ottoman fortresses in the territory of Hungary were Orthodox and Muslim Balkan Slavs rather than ethnic Turkish people." Maybe "seventeen TO nineteen"?


Technically both are true: standard Hungarian developed from the Northern Hungarian dialect, but the variety spoken in Budapest (and almost everywhere else except maybe the westernmost places and some territories outside current borders) is now identical to it. Will try to find sources but I'm not sure there'll be any English ones. – ]&nbsp;] 16:31, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
I would fix it if I knew what was intended, but I'm unsure. The reference is to a book, so I can't check it. ] (]) 07:03, 16 May 2023 (UTC)


== Semi-protected edit request on 16 September 2024 (3) ==
:It would be ok to change it to "thousands". The precise number doesn't add much value. ] 07:56, 8 October 2023 (UTC)


{{edit semi-protected|Hungary|answered=yes}}
== Connections to the "Eastern world" and Organization of Turkic States ==
I need to fix a spelling mistake . ] (]) 08:48, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
A user repeteadly added the following text to the lead:
: In recent times, Hungary has developed increasingly strong geopolitical ties with the ].<ref>{{Cite web |date=2023-08-21 |title=Orbán hosts Erdoğan and other eastern leaders on Hungary's National Day |url=https://www.euronews.com/2023/08/21/orban-hosts-erdogan-and-other-eastern-leaders-on-hungarys-national-day |access-date=2023-09-18 |website=euronews |language=en}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |last= |first= |date=2023-07-01 |title=Government: Our policy of opening to the East is working |url=https://dailynewshungary.com/government-our-policy-of-opening-to-the-east-is-working/ |access-date=2023-09-18 |website=Daily News Hungary |language=en-US}}</ref> Since 2018, it has held observer status within the ].<ref>{{Cite web |title=ANALYSIS - Hungary in the Organization of Turkic States: A Bridge between East and West |url=https://www.aa.com.tr/en/analysis/analysis-hungary-in-the-organization-of-turkic-states-a-bridge-between-east-and-west/2424575 |access-date=2023-09-19 |website=www.aa.com.tr}}</ref>
This is a random piece of information that does not belong to the lead which should only give a very brief overview of the country. Referring to "eastern connections" is very vague and many western countries have much stronger ties, e.g., with China and India, than Hungary, yet, none of them have this in their lead. Referring to the Organization of Turkic States is even more irrelevant, as Hungary only has an observer status, and even full members do not have this information in the lead of their WP articles. Hungary is a full member of hundreds of various organizations, it does not make sense to randomly list one in which the country is only an observer. ] ] 15:46, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] <small> (]) </small> 02:44, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
:Agree, that should be not in the lead, this user is new, probably he does not know the wiki standards. ] (]) 16:08, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
::For me this was very strange from that user, he claimed the Hungarian foods are Ottoman and Asian foods :D https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Hungarian_cuisine&diff=prev&oldid=1176615793 ] (]) 16:10, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
:::?? I did not introduce that claim about Hungarian food. It was another user that mentioned the Ottoman influence on Hungarian food, and claimed that Hungarian food was over a base of traditional elements from Central Asia. All I did was modify his edit to mention it as an influence rather than the foundation of Hungarian food. I wasn’t going to remove these additions, as they are not necessarily incorrect, Hungary’s cuisine was influenced by the Ottoman Empire. However, in relation to the eastern origins of the Hungarians, I do not know how much it influenced the cuisine. ] (]) 16:44, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
:I appreciate your comments, however, I still believe it was appropriate to mention it. It’s common knowledge that Hungary is very politically divided from the countries to its west, and, if you follow Hungarian politics, you will know that, Hungary is increasingly politically involved with countries to its East. ] (]) 16:48, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
::: This is a kind of political POV that should be avoided in WP, especially in the lead of a country. ] ] 18:10, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
::Sorry my mistake, it was another user https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Hungarian_cuisine&diff=prev&oldid=1165108671 ] (]) 16:55, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


== Government info box ==
{{reflist-talk}}
==Length==


At nearly 15k words of readable prose, this article is quite long - it would benefit from being summarized and details shifted to subarticles, per ]. ] (]) 19:04, 7 October 2023 (UTC) Hello, I believe it should be noted in the government info box that the government of Hungary is currently authoritarian and autocratic but I wanted to be able to reach a consensus before adding anything. ] (]) 22:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)


:Which sources call it autocratic? I do not think most political scientists would characterize it as such. Even the EIU Democracy Index still categorizes it as a 'flawed democracy'. Either way, per ], it is better to explain this in the text. ] (]) 10:59, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
== Ottoman Hungary ==
:: calls Hungary "electoral autocracy" since 2020, but I agree that this is better discussed in the main text. ] (]) 11:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::This category seems to include countries like Belarus, India, Russia and Ukraine, some of which have consolidated authoritarian regimes while others do not. I find it a bit strange that V-Dem has consistently categorized Russia as an electoral autocracy since 1991. ] (]) 11:37, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


==Middle Ages==
Hi @], are you able to read Hungarian sources?


{{ping|Are2The2}} This is the only History section to include subsections. It also includes excessive detail for this high-level ] - discussion of genetics, for example, is best left to a subarticle. ] (]) 01:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
What is your opinion? @] @] @]


:I think the tag should have been placed higher if it relates to the section as a whole.
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Hungary&diff=prev&oldid=1193225987
:The origins of the Hungarian conquerors is a significant detail. I summarised “genetic and linguistic evidence” as “research”. ] (]) 01:23, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

::Hi, I agree with ]. Morover I recognized a while ago that detailed edits of ] are just a selective cherry pickings. I dont think it is important here in a main country article that Byzantine sources called Hungary as Turcia 1100 years ago. It should be in sub articles. ] likes only the ] in 1718 which restored only a smaller last piece of Hungary while ] ended in 1699 (probably he likes mention that Turkish rule was longer in the entire country). At the moment "turn of 18th century" mention that thing in the short lead. While he removes for example the ] which was a really important Hungarian state during that period. I also observed that ] carefully cherry picking only the Siberian theory thing, spam this everywhere, even does not fit in this article, while he removed the mentioning the other areas from here: ], morover many of his sources were random to force this Siberia mania at any cost, as I checked already some, and I corrected some of them. As we can read in the source, Szeifert et al. 2022 proposed that most of the early Hungarian tribes originated from the Volga-Kama and Southern Ural regions, where they were composed of a mixed population. Despite, ] still use that source for his Siberia mania, however the source does not say that, this is clearly a bad fait edit. There are many genetic study about the origin of Hungarian conquerors, but ] did not like those one in other articles which were not supporting that Siberia thing. That is important, but not this country summary main article. ] (]) 01:37, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
I think the lead is just a short summarize of the events. Hungarian historiography holds the well known view "150 years Ottoman occupation" term (which we know is more or less number), all of them starts from 1541, when Buda was occupied and Hungary was split in three.
:::Yes, the vast majority of Hungary was ceded to the Habsburgs in 1699. My concern was simply that it was inaccurate to state that Hungary was reunited at the turn of the 18th century. Certain areas, albeit relatively small areas at the southern border, were still under Ottoman rule until the Treaty of Passarowitz in 1718. ] (]) 03:29, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

::::Hi, do you think “Hungary was not reunited” from the 3 pieces in 1699 (Royal Hungary, Ottoman Hungary, Principality of Transylvania: divided in 1541) just because a smaller part (Banat) did not recover yet just in 1718? <nowiki>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/File:Europe,_1700%E2%80%941714.png</nowiki> ] (]) 09:09, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
''"With the capture of Buda in 1541, Ottoman rule began in the central part of Hungary. But this rule was at first limited to the military occupation of a few fortified places. It took many years for the Turks to build up their public administration, the institutions that set the framework for their settlement here"''
:::::Banat of Temeşvar, Belgrade and Syrmia. ] (]) 20:52, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

::::::Not only the Banat of Temeşvar. ] (]) 20:55, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
"Central part' is a general broad term, this is a lead, the sub article has all details and maps: ]. ] was occupied in 1521, after ], some southern areas was occupied in ], but that are just border regions and Hungary was not occupied, but Hungary was destroyed and occupied by the date of 1541 by the ], and ] was recaptured in 1686, and after the ] in 1687, and finally by the ] Hungary was mostly recaptured and restored, only the Temes region remained udner Ottoman control until 1718 by the ]. Why should we care border areas in the lead? For example Belgrade was occupied by the Habsburgs 3 times just in 1700s. Should we talk about more "Ottoman Hungary" because of Belgrade? Because of a border area?
:::::::That bulge area: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/File:Europe,_1700%E2%80%941714.png ] (]) 21:07, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Should we say A country occupied B country or B country occupied A country just because the border regions always changed? ] (]) 19:37, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

:the Banat of Temeswar, Belgrade and Syrmia were occupied by the Ottomans until the Treaty of Passarowitz in 1718. Furthermore, after the Treaty of Karlowitz, it took time for some of the territories ceded to the Habsburgs under this treaty to actually be transferred from Ottoman to Habsburg rule. Whilst Buda was ruled between 1541 and 1699, it’s appropriate to specify the years 1526 and 1718 as the sentence describes the period during which the Kingdom was ''partially'' occupied. the way it was written, specifying only the period during which the central part was occupied could have been misinterpreted as meaning only the central part was occupied. ] (]) 00:31, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
::Hi @], '''why do you want to overwrite and supervise the Hungarian historiography'''? The lead is a summarize of the events. We should emphasize those things short which are emphasized in the Hungarian historiography. The siege of Belgrade in 1521 and the 1718 treaty is not emphasized at all. But everybody can read those information if somebody see the details below or in the sub articles.
::Modern school books from the '''Hungarian national curriculum'''
::'''All emphaize that Ottoman Hungary formed in 1541 when Hungary was split in three''' (morover the first Ottoman elayet established at that time in Hungary) '''and Hungarian sources emphasize the Ottomans recognized the loss of Ottoman Hungary in 1699.'''
::https://www.tankonyvkatalogus.hu/pdf/OH-TOR06TB__teljes.pdf
::page 59
::''"The fall of Buda and the splitting of the country into three parts"''
::''"After the death of János Szapolyai, Ferdinand wanted to put an end to the division of the country. He tried to occupy all of Hungary with an army. The Turks did not remain idle either. Sultan Suleiman's army soon he reached Buda. In 1541, the Turks took Buda Castle by trick. However, it was not enough to occupy the entire country their strength. Thus, only the central area was annexed to the Ottoman Empire. Hungary was divided into three parts: 1. The western and northern parts were the Kingdom of Hungary (royal Hungary). Its rulers came from the Habsburg family, its center It was Bratislava. 2. The sultan donated the eastern part to the son of János Szapolyai, the infant János Zsigmond. Later, this area was called the Principality of Transylvania. 3. In the area between the two, the Turks were the master: this part was called subjugation."''
::Ottoman occupation chapter:
::page 88: ''"Turkish rule: In 1541, Buda was taken by the Turks."''
::https://www.tankonyvkatalogus.hu/pdf/OH-TOR06TA__teljes.pdf
::page 67:
::''"After the capture of Buda, the country was divided into three parts. The central areas of the country came under the authority of the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire, where the so-called subjugation (Ottoman Hungary) developed. The western and northern half of the country was connected to the countries of the Habsburgs, the territory of the Kingdom of Hungary remained under the rule of Ferdinand Habsburg and his successors they ruled. The sultan donated the eastern half of the country to his son Szapolyai, and the Principality of Transylvania was created from this."''
::''"After the loss of Buda in 1541, the borders of the individual parts of the country were formed along a new castle line."''
::page 80:
::''"The liberation of Hungary and the recapture of Buda took place at the end of the 17th century after nearly 150 years of Turkish subjugation."''
::page 81:
::''"The war did not end with the recapture of Buda. The imperial armies pushed the Turks out of Hungary relatively quickly and occupied Transylvania as well. Later, however, in the west, the French again started a war against the Habsburgs, so significant forces had to be withdrawn from the Turkish battlefield. The advance was stalled for a few years, and the Turks were even able to regain smaller areas. Finally, the decade and a half war was concluded by the Peace of Karlóc in 1699, as a result of which even the Turks now recognized: Hungary was liberated. The Ottoman Empire was the only one able to keep Temesköz in the south-eastern part of the country, but nearly twenty years later the Turks were pushed out from there as well"''
::https://www.tankonyvkatalogus.hu/pdf/FI-504010601_1__teljes.pdf
::page 104:
::''"The Peace of Karlóc, signed in 1699, made the dream of generations come true: a large part of Hungary was freed from the Turkish rule that had lasted for more than one hundred and fifty years. The Ottoman Empire was the only one able to keep Temesköz in the southern part of the country."''
::https://www.tankonyvkatalogus.hu/pdf/OH-TOR10TA__teljes.pdf
::page 40:
::''"In 1541, Ferdinand sent a strong army to capture Buda. Fráter György, who was in a difficult situation, turned to the Turks for help, although it is true that Sülejmán also decided on the new campaign. The siege failed and the arriving Ottoman force encamped below Buda. After a few days, the sultan invited the Szapolyai followers to visit, and during the hospitality, his troops captured the capital of the country by trickery in 1541. August 29. The Sultan spared the lives of Zsigmond János and Izabella Jagielló, who were captured. He handed over the administration of the part of the country east of the Tisza to them, and recognized the infant king as his vassal. uda, however, remained in the hands of the Turks. Thus, with the formation of the occupied territory along the Danube (Hódoltság (Ottoman Hungary)), the country was divided into three parts."''
::page 59:
::''"The decisive defeat of the Ottomans occurred in the Battle of Zenta (1697), where the Sultan's army crossing the Tisza was defeated by the Emperor Jenő of Savoy. was destroyed by After a long negotiation, the two parties concluded a peace in 1699 (Peace of Karlóca), the Turks recognized the loss of the Hódoltság (Ottoman Hungary), the territory of the country - with the exception of Temesköz - was finally liberated."''
::https://www.tankonyvkatalogus.hu/pdf/OH-TOR10TB__teljes.pdf
::page 46:
::''"Sülejmán, however, saw that the time had come to occupy Buda, and his soldiers occupied the castle on August 29, 1541. He dragged Bálint Török with him and gave Isabella and the infant king the part of the country east of the Tisza. Hungary was divided into three parts."''
::''"In 1526, the Sultan occupied Buda, but withdrew from the city. Between 1528 and 1540, the Sultan supported János Szapolyai because it was cheaper for him to maintain a fiefdom than to invade. Between 1529 and 1540, the sultan launched campaigns against the Habsburgs alongside Szapolyai. They intervene in the internal strife of the defeated country. After the death of Szapolyai, the sultan occupies Buda, because he is not sure that the guardians of the infant king are able to keep the fiefdom. 1541: Capture of Buda and the central area of the country."''
::page 67:
::''"However, the Habsburg Empire was able to withstand the two-front war. The talented general, Jenő of Savoy, again won a decisive victory over the main Turkish forces at Zenta (1697). The Ottoman Empire, due to the heavy defeat and exhaustion of its resources, asked for peace. The Danube monarchy also replenished its resources, thus the peace of Karlóc was born in 1699. Hungary was liberated with the exception of Temesköz, and Transylvania also came under Habsburg rule."'' ] (]) 19:45, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
:::hi, I have not made an argument that disputes the general information in the sources you have provided here. The main period of Ottoman occupation in the Kingdom of Hungary was between 1541 and 1699.
:::However, for example, two of the quotes you provided fail to mention that Belgrade and Syrmia were still under Ottoman rule until 1718. If information is not widely available, it is not uncommon for sources to provide incomplete information on one topic or another.
:::"The Peace of Karlóc, signed in 1699, made the dream of generations come true: a large part of Hungary was freed from the Turkish rule that had lasted for more than one hundred and fifty years. The Ottoman Empire was the only one able to keep Temesköz in the southern part of the country."
:::“Hungary was liberated with the exception of Temesköz, and Transylvania also came under Habsburg rule."
:::The following quote is generally accurate, because the Ottoman territory of modern Hungary that remained under Ottoman rule until 1718 was only in the Banat of Temeswar. So the vast majority of modern Hungary was liberated as a result of the 1699 treaty, but it still was the vast majority and not the absolute entirety:
:::"The liberation of Hungary and the recapture of Buda took place at the end of the 17th century after nearly 150 years of Turkish subjugation."
:::for me what is important is that the information in the lead is accurate.
:::it does not need to provide intricate details of the Ottoman occupation of Hungary, as that can be complex and the situation varied over the period. ] (]) 23:45, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
::::The territory of present day Hungary was fully liberated after the second battle of Mohacs in 1687 (] is at the Croatian, Serbian border). Ottomans acknowledged the loss of Ottoman Hungary in 1699 by signing the treaty as close the war. You know all wars end by treaties. Hungary was split in 3 only after 1541, Ottomans created the first elayet at that time = Ottoman Hungary. That is the view of the Hungarian historiography. And Hungary was unified again when Ottoman Hungary was over, which was acknowledged by the Turks signing the treaty in 1699, And not in 1718. It does not matter that some border regions remained under Ottoman control for a short time more, or it does not matter that some border areas like Belgrade was captured by Ottomans in 1521.(Even Belgrade changed 100 times owner during its history) Hungary was still an unified country after 1521 under 1 king. Hungary was split in 3 between 1541-1699 and unified in 1699, that is the important what we need in the lead. All other detais is important as you can see I added the 1521 Belgrade event in the Ottoman Hungary article, and 1718 treaty also important but not in the lead. The lead should be short and list the most important things. Those details should be in sub articles or in detailed sections below. @] also made a compromise when he wrote that “turn of the 18th century” so that period can cover both 1699, 1718 time and not need link the treaties, because that is just a lead. ] (]) 08:48, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
::::I see, Szirtyu, that you've committed yourself to championing clarity, and ceaselessly refer to it like it would be a cornerstone of your argument. But let me confront you with the obvious spoilage you've done on it: . While the collapse of the Hungarian kingdom is given by historiography as a tripartite partition between the Ottoman Turks, Austrian Habsburgs, and a separating Transylvania you try to present it plainly as the fall of Buda to the first, followed by the cession of the country to the second. Such depiction is perplexing to those unfamiliar with the division of one-third to both empires. I'm aware that there were fluctuations on the political landscape, but what I wrote down is true for the entire 150 year period. Your call to "avoid oversimplification" and "not to get into specifics" at the same time doesn't convince anyone of your arrangement either. ] (]) 09:13, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
:I agree, 1541 and 1699 are the most frequent years as dates of start and end of the Ottoman Hungary period, respectively. --] (]) 10:56, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
::@], do you have explanation for your revert? That article is about Hungary and not the Ottoman empire. The mentioned things are part of the Hungarian history. ] (]) 19:18, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
:::It is best to state the key dates in the lead instead of getting into the specifics of the power divisions. These changed during the period and cannot really be summed up in one sentence. The Principality of Transylvania was a vassal state of the Ottoman Empire between 1566 and 1699. ] (]) 19:45, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 22:25, 4 January 2025

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Contradictory?

Under "Demographics" the number of Roma is given as 300,000. In the next line as a result of the census their number is given as 609,000. Which figure is correct? Or how is the difference explained?

Also: to my knowledge not all gipsies in Hungary are Roma. They are just the largest group. Hence the term "Roma" is regarded as an imposition by the smaller gipsy groups. 

== Demography ==
=== Urbanization ===
 {{Main|List of cities and towns of Hungary}}
 {{Largest cities of Hungary}}
 {{copied |from =www.en.wikipedia/List of cities and towns of Hungary}}
 ]
] has 3,152 localities as of July 15, 2013. 346 towns (Hungarian term: ''város'', plural: ''városok''; the terminology doesn't distinguish between ] and ]s – the term town is used in official translations) and 2,806 villages (Hungarian: ''község'', plural: ''községek''). The number of towns can change, since villages can be elevated to town status by act of the President. The capital Budapest has a special status and is not included in any county while 23 of the towns are so-called urban counties (''megyei jogú város'' – town with county rights). All county seats except Budapest are urban counties.
Four of the cities (], ], ], and ]) have agglomerations, and the Hungarian Statistical Office distinguishes seventeen other areas in earlier stages of agglomeration development.<ref>http://portal.ksh.hu/portal/page?_pageid=37,412178&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL#sett</ref>
The largest city is the capital, Budapest, the smallest town is ] with 1038 inhabitants (2010). The largest village is ] (population: 10,123 as of 2010) There are more than 100 villages with fewer than 100 inhabitants while the smallest villages have fewer than 20 inhabitants.
{{reflist talk}}

Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please change, that the standard Hungarian is based on what people speak at Budapest. It is based on what they speak in Zemplén. That's what got standardised with the language revolution. Leaving local expressions and forms behind. 2001:4C4D:1E08:3800:5424:C1FF:DE22:E5D2 (talk) 18:08, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:42, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Technically both are true: standard Hungarian developed from the Northern Hungarian dialect, but the variety spoken in Budapest (and almost everywhere else except maybe the westernmost places and some territories outside current borders) is now identical to it. Will try to find sources but I'm not sure there'll be any English ones. – Alensha  16:31, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 September 2024 (3)

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I need to fix a spelling mistake . 110.174.201.187 (talk) 08:48, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:44, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Government info box

Hello, I believe it should be noted in the government info box that the government of Hungary is currently authoritarian and autocratic but I wanted to be able to reach a consensus before adding anything. ErickTheMerrick (talk) 22:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Which sources call it autocratic? I do not think most political scientists would characterize it as such. Even the EIU Democracy Index still categorizes it as a 'flawed democracy'. Either way, per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE, it is better to explain this in the text. Mellk (talk) 10:59, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
V-dem calls Hungary "electoral autocracy" since 2020, but I agree that this is better discussed in the main text. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 11:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
This category seems to include countries like Belarus, India, Russia and Ukraine, some of which have consolidated authoritarian regimes while others do not. I find it a bit strange that V-Dem has consistently categorized Russia as an electoral autocracy since 1991. Mellk (talk) 11:37, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Middle Ages

@Are2The2: This is the only History section to include subsections. It also includes excessive detail for this high-level summary article - discussion of genetics, for example, is best left to a subarticle. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

I think the tag should have been placed higher if it relates to the section as a whole.
The origins of the Hungarian conquerors is a significant detail. I summarised “genetic and linguistic evidence” as “research”. Are2The2 (talk) 01:23, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Hi, I agree with Nikkimaria. Morover I recognized a while ago that detailed edits of Are2The2 are just a selective cherry pickings. I dont think it is important here in a main country article that Byzantine sources called Hungary as Turcia 1100 years ago. It should be in sub articles. Are2The2 likes only the Treaty of Passarowitz in 1718 which restored only a smaller last piece of Hungary while Ottoman Hungary ended in 1699 (probably he likes mention that Turkish rule was longer in the entire country). At the moment "turn of 18th century" mention that thing in the short lead. While he removes for example the Principality of Transylvania which was a really important Hungarian state during that period. I also observed that Are2The2 carefully cherry picking only the Siberian theory thing, spam this everywhere, even does not fit in this article, while he removed the mentioning the other areas from here: Magyar tribes, morover many of his sources were random to force this Siberia mania at any cost, as I checked already some, and I corrected some of them. As we can read in the source, Szeifert et al. 2022 proposed that most of the early Hungarian tribes originated from the Volga-Kama and Southern Ural regions, where they were composed of a mixed population. Despite, Are2The2 still use that source for his Siberia mania, however the source does not say that, this is clearly a bad fait edit. There are many genetic study about the origin of Hungarian conquerors, but Are2The2 did not like those one in other articles which were not supporting that Siberia thing. That is important, but not this country summary main article. OrionNimrod (talk) 01:37, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Yes, the vast majority of Hungary was ceded to the Habsburgs in 1699. My concern was simply that it was inaccurate to state that Hungary was reunited at the turn of the 18th century. Certain areas, albeit relatively small areas at the southern border, were still under Ottoman rule until the Treaty of Passarowitz in 1718. Are2The2 (talk) 03:29, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Hi, do you think “Hungary was not reunited” from the 3 pieces in 1699 (Royal Hungary, Ottoman Hungary, Principality of Transylvania: divided in 1541) just because a smaller part (Banat) did not recover yet just in 1718? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/File:Europe,_1700%E2%80%941714.png OrionNimrod (talk) 09:09, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Banat of Temeşvar, Belgrade and Syrmia. Are2The2 (talk) 20:52, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Not only the Banat of Temeşvar. Are2The2 (talk) 20:55, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
That bulge area: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/File:Europe,_1700%E2%80%941714.png OrionNimrod (talk) 21:07, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
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