Revision as of 13:55, 13 February 2024 editMindmatrix (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators187,469 edits →Typo.: fixed← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 21:48, 25 October 2024 edit undoTom.Reding (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Template editors3,891,546 editsm -{{BLP}}; +blp=yes (request); cleanupTag: AWB |
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{{Talk header |bot=lowercase sigmabot III |age=20 |units=days}} |
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{{contentious topics/talk notice|ap|style=long}} |
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{{Canvass warning|short=yes}} |
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{{Australian English}} |
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{{Australian English}} |
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{{Old AfD multi| date = January 12, 2007 |
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{{Old XfD multi| date = January 12, 2007 |
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| result = '''Speedy Keep''' |
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| result = '''Speedy Keep''' |
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| page = Wikileaks |
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{{WikiProject banner shell |vital=yes |class=B |collapsed=yes |1= |
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{{WikiProject banner shell |blp=yes |vital=yes |class=B |collapsed=yes |1= |
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{{WikiProject Journalism |importance=top}} |
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== what section? == |
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== Daily Dot questionable? == |
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@] I partial reverted , why are the Daily Dot articles questionable? ] (]) 22:10, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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@] I am ok with you restoring this but the reason I removed {{tq|In 2010, the UN ] expressed concern over what they referred to as a cyber war against WikiLeaks,<ref>{{cite press release |title=UN human rights chief voices concern at reported 'cyber war' against WikiLeaks |date=9 December 2010 |publisher=United Nations |url=https://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=37009&Cr=leaked&Cr1|access-date=28 December 2010 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140420125618/http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=37009&Cr=leaked&Cr1 |archive-date=20 April 2014 |url-status=dead}}</ref> and in a joint statement with the ] the UN ] called on states and others to keep international legal principles in mind.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.cidh.oas.org/relatoria/showarticle.asp?artID=829&lID=1 |title=Joint Statement on WikiLeaks |publisher=] |access-date=28 December 2010 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20101227073006/http://www.cidh.oas.org/relatoria/showarticle.asp?artID=829&lID=1 |archive-date=27 December 2010 |url-status=dead |date=August 2009 }}</ref>}} was it didnt seem like it related to the section topic and I didnt know where else it could go. Maybe ]? |
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:Consensus has determined it ] for the reasons given at the time it was raised. It certainly ought not to be relied upon for contentious statements of fact. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 22:59, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::{{tq|Consensus has determined}} The RSP you cite says {{tq|There is no consensus}}. |
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::It does not say {{tq|It certainly ought not to be relied upon for contentious statements of fact.}} It says {{tq|there is community consensus that attribution should be used in topics where the source is known to be biased or when the source is used to support contentious claims of fact.}} Why do you think the statements are contentious? If it is we can attribute it like the RSP you cite says ] (]) 23:19, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::We could, but given that this appears to be the only source which makes certain claims, it's more appropriate not to give this slightly dubious source excessive weight in the article. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 23:23, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::I ask again. Why do you think the statements are contentious? |
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::::Why is it ]? it is not unlikely, particularly difficult to verify, ambiguous and open to interpretation, and no RS makes different claims |
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::::Why is it ] It is not widely acknowledged as extremist, promotional in nature, or rely heavily on rumors and personal opinions ] (]) 23:31, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::Similarly, the Daily Beast is not regarded as a high-quality and reliable source, particularly for statements of fact about living people. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 23:38, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::You did not answer. Please stop ignoring questions. |
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:::::About Daily Beast, you were ] with no consensus and nothing has changed |
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:::::And WikiLeaks is not a living person, BLP does not apply to the organisations Twitter account does it? ] (]) 23:44, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::Some instances have other sources, so the use of low-quality sources is redundant. Others make claims not reported on by any other sources, not even by better sources (such as Wired) that focus on tech/cyber reporting and that closely reported on WikiLeaks. We ought not to give undue weight to 1 source lacking a strong rep for reliability. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 02:00, 22 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::Please stop ]. You have cited things and said they had consensus for things they did not. You mention other policies that do not seem supported and are not answering about it ] (]) 10:49, 22 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::It’s time to stop making false claims that I’m ignoring questions. What you mean is that I’m not answering them the way you want. That's not on me. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 13:16, 22 March 2024 (UTC) |
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We should be using mainstream ] with strong reputations, not shoestring sites with little or no evidence of editorial oversight and disagreement on reliability. Hence I replaced e.g. the DailyDot website with '']''. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 05:03, 22 March 2024 (UTC) |
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The other part you restored I agree is well sourced. I didnt think it was needed for the section and their reaction so I thought it could be trimmed for space but there was no problem with it ] (]) 15:03, 27 August 2023 (UTC) |
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:{{tq|with little or no evidence of editorial oversight and disagreement on reliability.}} You described WikiLeaks |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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:{{tq|Hence I replaced e.g. the DailyDot website with The Atlantic}} You replaced one source with The Atlantic and removed the others without replacing them, or even adding a {{citation needed}} first like I did |
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:And you still havent explained why it is dubious or contentious ] (]) 10:51, 22 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::Read the first and last sentences of your own comment. Your posts are becoming absurd. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 14:05, 22 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::My input is probably not warranted here, but I would like to point out that you are not answering. You call the source "dubious" despite the fact that there is no concensus behind it. Leaving unanswered the question of why you think the statements from the source are questionable. ] (]) 18:51, 15 April 2024 (UTC) |
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::::You may wish to {{tq|point out}} what you claim, but given it's not true, it's not "pointing out" something but merely making a false claim about the above comments. I agree that such input is not warranted, nor is it productive. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 20:38, 15 April 2024 (UTC) |
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== Donations via cryptocurrency: oddly missing from the article == |
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== Wikileaks should be described in past tense == |
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The article prose mentions "donation" or "donations" 30 times, and extensively covers bank and credit card donations, and the ectensive efforts of various state and financial entities to stop or halt such payment channels to WikiLeaks. Yet it makes no mention at all of WikiLeaks accepting donations in ]. |
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Since Wikileaks no longer works and documents can no longer be pulled up whether through search or direct links, all descriptions of Wikileaks should be changed to past tense. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:08, 9 October 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Odd that. The official website of WikiLeaks, linked as the first item in the "External links" section of the article, clearly indicates that WikiLeaks is set up to receive donations in at least a half dozen digital assets, that do not pass through banks or credit card processing centers. ] (]) 16:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:I think ] says we describe events in past tense but the article is in present |
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:{{tq|By default, write articles in the present tense, including those covering works of fiction and products or works that have been discontinued. Generally, use past tense only for past events, and for subjects that are dead or no longer meaningfully exist. Use past tense for articles about periodicals no longer produced, with common-sense exceptions.}} |
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:{{tq|Always use present tense for verbs that describe genres, types and classes, even if the subject of the description (e.g. program, library, device) no longer exists, is discontinued or is unsupported/unmaintained.}} ] (]) 10:35, 9 October 2023 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2024 == |
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:The article makes clear that WikiLeaks isn't publishing at the moment.--] (]) 03:26, 12 October 2023 (UTC) |
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{{edit semi-protected|WikiLeaks|answered=yes}} |
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== Date quote reported == |
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'''MINOR GRAMMAR EDIT:''' |
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Line says "times '''were'''" - source article uses grammar that I think is correct "instances '''where'''" - if not protected I'd have changed it to "times where". |
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We don't need to include the time, or the time after death, that a quote from ] was reported by ''The New York Times''. If it's on the page it should be sourced and given accurately. But such a detail is not relevant to the article. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 12:36, 12 October 2023 (UTC) |
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Line in question: |
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:Sources like the one about the password and the quote use the word {{tq|reportedly}} to describe the quote. It uses that word twice and brings up the timeline |
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:{{tq|The password is a reference to a famous quote by former US President John F. Kennedy, '''reportedly''' given to a senior administration official one month before he was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald in 1963. According to the official, quoted in a New York Times report published three years after his death, Kennedy said he wanted “to splinter the CIA in a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds”.}} |
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:I agree it should be sourced and given accurately, and an inflammatory quote should have context. Saying who published and that it was years after the person died is normal ] (]) 12:42, 12 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::That source usefully points out the provenance of the password in the quote. More reliable sources, including ''The New York Times'' and the academic work cited, simply give this as a quote. The claim of three years is factually incorrect. There's no indication that it's "{{tq|inflammatory}}". What do you think is the relevance of the date it was published to this article about Wikileaks? <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 12:52, 12 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::{{tq|There's no indication that it's "inflammatory"}} A President allegedly saying the CIA should be {{tq|shattered}} is not ]? Am I understanding a word wrong again? ] (]) 12:58, 12 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::::It's a quote from the US president about a proposed internal policy decision. What do you think is the relevance of the date it was published in a US newspaper of record to this article about Wikileaks? <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 13:04, 12 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::Any quote first published years after someone died is questionable because they can't respond to it or deny it. If its inflammatory and we attribute it we should say when it was published or link to a wiki article that has context ] (]) 13:10, 12 October 2023 (UTC) |
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''In response to a question in 2010 about whether WikiLeaks would release information that he knew might get someone killed, Assange said that he had instituted a "harm-minimization policy." This meant that people named in some documents might be contacted before publication, '''but that there were also times were members''' of WikiLeaks might have "blood on our hands." One member of WikiLeaks told The New Yorker they were initially uncomfortable with Assange's editorial policy but changed her mind because she thought no one had been unjustly harmed.'' ] (]) 15:24, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Move or rename Inadequate curation and violations of personal privacy == |
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:{{done}}. '''〜''' <span style="font-family:Big Caslon;border-radius:9em;padding:0 7px;background:#437a4b">]</span> ] 15:53, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== About the ] announcement on the top == |
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] should be changed to Curation or moved to ]. Editorial policy has a response section. For NPOV it should have information about claims that WikiLeaks publications never hurt anyone added |
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I think it's very necessary to add the announcement about "WikiLeaks is not part of, also have no relations with us Misplaced Pages" at the top of the page. But I can't find a proper way to add it. So I want to ask others' opinions about this suggestion. ] (]) 14:41, 4 July 2024 (UTC) |
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] and ] ] (]) 12:43, 26 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:Is there any evidence anyone is confused?--] (]) 01:36, 6 July 2024 (UTC) |
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::There was a problem many years back with people who clearly ''were'' confused posting hostile comments on this talk page: see e.g. this discussion. I'd be surprised if it is still happening now with enough regularity to be an issue though. ] (]) 01:50, 6 July 2024 (UTC) |
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== Page size and changes == |
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== Typo == |
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The word "raided" is mistakenly repeated in the sentence "In March 2009, German police raided raided the offices of Wikileaks Germany and the homes of Theodor Reppe, who owned the registration for WikiLeaks' German domain while searching for evidence of 'distribution of pornographic material'." ] (]) 05:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC) |
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Two points: |
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:Fixed. ]] 15:23, 20 July 2024 (UTC) |
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* Page size has now reached 114 kB. Policy says pages of > 100 kB should "Almost certainly should be divided or trimmed". |
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* It is easier to follow changes when they are made in small increments. |
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] (]) 06:33, 1 November 2023 (UTC) |
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== Trump–Russia relations == |
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:I replaced a lot of the reception with a summary because of ] |
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:Size is now 96 kB ] (]) 22:16, 5 November 2023 (UTC) |
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Is this really relevant ? ] (]) 09:24, 31 July 2024 (UTC) |
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== Typo. == |
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Hello, i wanted to warn users with edit perm that in 2011–2015 section, the word "malware" is written as "mawlare". ] (]) 11:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:thats how templates work ] (]) 04:42, 2 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Rei Da Tecnologia}} I've fixed it. ]] 13:55, 13 February 2024 (UTC) |
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The article prose mentions "donation" or "donations" 30 times, and extensively covers bank and credit card donations, and the ectensive efforts of various state and financial entities to stop or halt such payment channels to WikiLeaks. Yet it makes no mention at all of WikiLeaks accepting donations in cryptocurrency.
Odd that. The official website of WikiLeaks, linked as the first item in the "External links" section of the article, clearly indicates that WikiLeaks is set up to receive donations in at least a half dozen digital assets, that do not pass through banks or credit card processing centers. N2e (talk) 16:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
I think it's very necessary to add the announcement about "WikiLeaks is not part of, also have no relations with us Misplaced Pages" at the top of the page. But I can't find a proper way to add it. So I want to ask others' opinions about this suggestion. Awdqmb (talk) 14:41, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
The word "raided" is mistakenly repeated in the sentence "In March 2009, German police raided raided the offices of Wikileaks Germany and the homes of Theodor Reppe, who owned the registration for WikiLeaks' German domain while searching for evidence of 'distribution of pornographic material'." 2001:16B8:DEF:E100:507E:A9D5:6C00:932C (talk) 05:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC)