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Latest revision as of 15:36, 10 January 2025 edit undoHandThatFeeds (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers12,483 edits →Semi-protected edit request on 1 January 2025: ReplyTag: Reply |
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{{Talk header|archive_age=90|archive_bot=lowercase sigmabot III}} |
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|text = The Proud Boys have a history of self-published claims that often contradict independent reliable sources. As per the ''']''' and ''']''', these statements should be mentioned, but attributed in-text to the group and be within the context of coverage from reliable sources. Be careful not to ] to the Proud Boys' statements, especially when they conflict with reliable sources. |
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|text = The Proud Boys have a history of self-published claims that often contradict independent reliable sources. As per the ''']''' and ''']''', these statements should be mentioned, but attributed in-text to the group and be within the context of coverage from reliable sources. Be careful not to ] to the Proud Boys' statements, especially when they conflict with reliable sources. |
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{{Top 25 Report|Sep 27 2020|Oct 4 2020}} |
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| {{cite book |last1=Park |first1=Meadhbh |editor1-last=Carian |editor1-first=Emily K. |editor2-last=DiBranco |editor2-first=Alex |editor3-last=Ebin |editor3-first=Chelsea |title=Male Supremacism in the United States: From Patriarchal Traditionalism to Misogynist Incels and the Alt-Right |date=2022 |publisher=Routledge |location=Abingdon, England |isbn=978-1-0005-7622-1 |doi=10.4324/9781003164722 |chapter=Fight Club: Gavin McInnes, the Proud Boys, and Male Supremacism}} |
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| {{cite book |last1=Park |first1=Meadhbh |editor1-last=Carian |editor1-first=Emily K. |editor2-last=DiBranco |editor2-first=Alex |editor3-last=Ebin |editor3-first=Chelsea |title=Male Supremacism in the United States: From Patriarchal Traditionalism to Misogynist Incels and the Alt-Right |date=2022 |publisher=Routledge |location=London |isbn=978-1-0005-7622-1 |doi=10.4324/9781003164722 |chapter=Fight Club: Gavin McInnes, the Proud Boys, and Male Supremacism}} |
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| {{cite book |last1=Stern |first1=Alexandra Minna |author1-link=Alexandra Minna Stern |title=Proud Boys and the White Ethnostate: How the Alt-Right Is Warping the American Imagination |date=2019 |publisher=Beacon Press |location=Boston |isbn=978-0-8070-6336-1}} |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2023 == |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2024 == |
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{{Edit semi-protected|Proud Boys|answered=yes}} |
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{{edit semi-protected|Proud Boys|answered=yes}} |
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The Proud Boys was founded as a fraternity that supports the American Republic. Proud Boys support the American Capitalist ideology. Proud Boys have been deemed as Fascist, this is incorrect. ] (]) 18:22, 2 September 2024 (UTC) |
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Considering that: academic sources use "crypto-fascist" and "proto-fascist"; that the Proud Boys are not inspired by a classical fascist regime, but by ] (which is not described as neo-fascist by most scholars, but is described as semi-fascist and/or neoliberal (see ])). |
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:] '''Not done:''' please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] ] 18:29, 2 September 2024 (UTC) |
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I suggest changing "]" (X) to "]/]" (Y). Alternatively, I suggest adding more context. ] (]) 08:00, 2 September 2023 (UTC) |
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::How does one provide a source contrary to an intangible and subjective viewpoint? ] (]) 18:09, 9 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a ] for this alteration ''']''' using the {{Tlx|Edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 14:24, 2 September 2023 (UTC) |
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{{hat|Rant, not an actual suggestion for improving the article. Closing per ]. — <b>]:<sup>]</sup></b> 16:29, 8 September 2023 (UTC)}} |
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:::If you'd read that link to our reliable sources policy, that would clear it up. — <b>]:<sup>]</sup></b> 18:18, 9 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::The entire writen statement about this organization seems heavily prejudiced. Fascism literally can not be people who believe in the us constitution. This group is a Pro American, Anti-Facist group! Stop your treasonous and hate-filled lies! Misplaced Pages Doublespeak is obviously in full effect here. ] (]) 10:41, 7 September 2023 (UTC) |
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:::The German Nazi party believed in the German constitution too and were able to obtain power and establish an effective dictatorship through a mix of constitutional and violent means. Hopefully those like the Proud Boys will never have that sort of power or traction. In any case perhaps you should stop with the bile and insults ]<sup>]</sup> 11:00, 7 September 2023 (UTC) |
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:::You've made a common misunderstanding about the nature of Misplaced Pages. Wikipedians aren't calling the group fascist, we're just summarizing what the sources say. If you look at the end of the sentence, you can see the list of sources that say this. I'm no expert, but I think you're deeply mistaken when you describe the PBs as Antifascist -- in point of fact that's PB's term for their group's enemies. ] (]) 23:11, 7 September 2023 (UTC) |
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== Symbolism == |
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== Date of Trump quote in lede == |
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The Proud Boys often use a Rooster, sometimes painted red, white, and blue, as a ]. Can we add ] (]) 18:54, 3 November 2024 (UTC) |
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Donald Trump said "stand back and stand by" in September, not October. ] (]) 1:38, 22 December 2023 (UTC) |
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: Fixed, thanks! ] (] / ]) 13:16, 22 December 2023 (UTC) |
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:It's actually already cited in the article, using the original Independent link rather than Yahoo's wrapper around it. See cite 15. — <b>]:<sup>]</sup></b> 18:13, 9 November 2024 (UTC) |
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== "Opponents" == |
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== Unsure best way to integrate information == |
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The infobox currently lists ] as "opponents" of the Proud Boys. I'm not sure this is justified. Yes, absolutely, the Proud Boys are against BLM and have engaged as such... but I cannot find in this article any mention of BLM trying to do anything to the Proud Boys, and the Proud Boys aren't even mentioned in the BLM article. (Quickly found definition of "opponent": ''someone who competes against or fights another in a contest, game, or argument; a rival or adversary.'') So at first glance it does not appear that BLM is directly opposing the Proud Boys; they are a ''target'' of the Proud Boys. As such, this should be removed from the infobox. -- ] (]) 07:06, 22 December 2023 (UTC) |
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: I agree. Nothing in the article suggests that BLM is their opponent. ] (] / ]) 13:16, 22 December 2023 (UTC) |
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Hi all, I am reading a ]: which notes in the abstract "The misconception that alt-right gangs are domestic terrorist organizations, primarily driven by racist ideology, ignores just how unrefined and rudimentary the beliefs that connect members together actually are." I'm unsure where in the article this would fit. ] (]) 02:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC) |
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::I've gone and done it. (And to be clear, Antifa is a different case; we have sourced statements on Antifa coming to a PB-centric rally.) -- ] (]) 14:02, 22 December 2023 (UTC) |
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== Addition of a website URL == |
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I believe we should add the Proud Boys' site's URL to the "Quick Facts" section. ] (]) 18:09, 3 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:Do you mean the template on the right? I don't think it makes sense; they're not primarily known for it and it wouldn't provide much useful information as a result. In fact, the only mention of the website of the article is an offhand quote saying that it hasn't been updated in over a year and a half. --] (]) 20:50, 3 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2024 == |
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{{hat|] request. — <b>]:<sup>]</sup></b> 22:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)}} |
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{{edit semi-protected|Proud Boys|answered=yes}} |
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Change everything on this page to an accurate and factual description of the Proud Boys. |
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Here is the appropriate description of this group: |
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"We are not a political group. |
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We are a fraternal brotherhood like the Elk’s Lodge or the Shriners. We are multi-racial group with conservative and libertarian inclinations. We welcome men of all races, straight or gay, into our membership. The only non-negotiable rule is that you are a Western Chauvinist who refuses to apologize for creating the modern world. The majority of our members are politically right-wing, but this is not a requirement. We disavow communists, Nazis, racists and other violent extremists. We will allow weak, beta-male virgins to join as long they attempt to elevate their status. Our fraternity is about helping men improve their lives. That goes for all men. However, if a prospective Proud Boy refuses to step up to the plate; if he doesn’t heed our advice and try to improve his lot; if he doesn’t assimilate and engage with the group, he will be asked to leave. |
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Many Proud Boys engage in acts of service to their community. This is not a requirement, but highly encouraged. We have assisted churches, veterans organizations, business owners and many others. Men who seek to reinstate a spirit of western chauvinism know that it requires action. That action can take many forms. Some men are active, visibly in the community, others are setting the example with everything they do. Their family, business, and social lives as well as bonding within this brotherhood are their action. Proud Boys love, live and exemplify the phrase “The West is The Best”!" ] (]) 20:42, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{Not done}}: please provide ] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] ] 20:43, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:Here is the link for reference purposes. https://azproudboys.com/politics-social/ ] (]) 20:47, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::That's not a reliable source (see ] and ]) ] ] 20:50, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::I guess we'll just name you as the main person in the upcoming defamation lawsuit. The current content on this page is defamatory and absolutely incorrect. We'll be in touch soon. ] (]) 20:55, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::NLT blocked. ] ] 21:12, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 1 January 2025 == |
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== Jack Buckby and Proud Boys in the UK == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Proud Boys|answered=yes}} |
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There was a short-lived UK division of Proud Boys. This is documented on ]'s article with a source and can be included on the Proud Boys article. ] (]) 13:21, 25 December 2023 (UTC) |
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I think you should add that Donald Trump does not support them, they do, but Trump publicly said ‘The Proud Biys should back off!’ ] (]) 10:22, 1 January 2025 (UTC) |
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:'''Not done''' - This would require reliable sources, and seems irrelevant to the actual topic of the article. Further, him telling them to "back off" was just for optics. It's not enough to say he does/does not support them on its own. — <b>]:<sup>]</sup></b> 12:34, 1 January 2025 (UTC) |
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::@] they support trump but trump never supported them, if you want sources look at the 2020 debate: "proud boys? Stand back and stand by "in response to the question: will you condemn white supremacist and militia groups and to say that they stand down and not add to violence to these cities...?" ] (]) 00:17, 10 January 2025 (UTC) |
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:::The article does not say that Trump supports them as far as I can see. ] (]) 03:56, 10 January 2025 (UTC) |
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:::As I said, there's not enough sources for us to say whether or not he supports them. He clearly does, IMO, but we can't put that into the article without sourcing, so I'm not suggesting we add it. — <b>]:<sup>]</sup></b> 15:36, 10 January 2025 (UTC) |
The Proud Boys was founded as a fraternity that supports the American Republic. Proud Boys support the American Capitalist ideology. Proud Boys have been deemed as Fascist, this is incorrect. Noble hobbs (talk) 18:22, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
The Proud Boys often use a Rooster, sometimes painted red, white, and blue, as a semiotic. Can we add
view · edit Frequently asked questions
Q1: I'd like to suggest a change. Where should I start?
A1: Great! The first thing you should do is check that no one else has already brought up your suggestion. You can check this by going through the current discussions below, or by searching the talk archives.
Q2: Why does the article describe the Proud Boys as "far-right", "neo-fascist" or as having connections to white supremacists?
A2: Misplaced Pages is built off reliable sources, and the significant and clear majority of sources use such descriptions. You can see a few selected sources for these determinations in the article's content, though many other sources have also been included in previous talk discussions: far-right discussion, neo-fascist discussion, white supremacy discussion. Discussion amongst editors around this happened in 2020, resulting in an editorial consensus to keep this three terms per all available evidence.
Q3: I have a connection to the Proud Boys, but there's something wrong.
A3: Neutrality is important to Misplaced Pages, so editors with conflicts of interests are generally discouraged from editing directly, and instead should request edits to be made to ensure their independence. This can be done by creating a new talk section, describing your request (including what needs changing and sources), and adding {{Request edit}} to the top of the section. If there is something wrong like spelling or grammar, feel free to change it yourself, but any meaningful changes are best to be discussed first.
Q4: What sort of policies should I be aware of before I start editing?
A4: If you're wanting to jump in and start editing, it's best that you're familiar with Misplaced Pages's neutrality, verifiability (referencing), and biography policies. We're all here to help build a better encyclopedia, so if you would like some help making sure your change is okay or would like a second pair of eyes to skim over it before you save it, just post a new message on the talk page!
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Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:29, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
Not done: please provide