Misplaced Pages

Latest revision as of 12:19, 8 January 2025

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Misandry article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7Auto-archiving period: 30 days

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Misandry. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Misandry at the Reference desk.

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

This article was nominated for deletion on April 21st, 2006. The result of the discussion was Keep.

This  level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Human rights Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Human rights on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Human rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Human rightsTemplate:WikiProject Human rightsHuman rights Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Sociology Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SociologyWikipedia:WikiProject SociologyTemplate:WikiProject Sociologysociology Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Feminism Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Feminism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Feminism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FeminismWikipedia:WikiProject FeminismTemplate:WikiProject FeminismFeminism Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Gender studies Low‑importance This article is part of WikiProject Gender studies. This WikiProject aims to improve the quality of articles dealing with gender studies and to remove systematic gender bias from Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate in the project, you can choose to edit this article, or visit the project page for more information.Gender studiesWikipedia:WikiProject Gender studiesTemplate:WikiProject Gender studiesGender studies Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. To-do list: Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Assess : see Unassessed Gender studies articles and Unknown-importance Gender studies articles Cleanup : edit to see Collaborate : see /Collaboration Copyedit : edit to see Deletion sorting : see /Sexuality and gender Expand : edit to see Infobox : see Gender studies articles needing infoboxes Merge : edit to see Notability : edit to see NPOV : edit to see Orphans : Brannon Masculinity Scale · Holy Virility · Media and gender · Michael Kaufman (author) · Women's education in Saudi Arabia Photo : see Misplaced Pages requested photographs of gender studies Split : History of feminism Stubs : see Gender studies stubs Translate : see /translation Update : edit to see Verify : Riot grrrl Needs attention : see Gender studies articles needing attention Discrimination Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Discrimination, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Discrimination on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DiscriminationWikipedia:WikiProject DiscriminationTemplate:WikiProject DiscriminationDiscrimination Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale. Men's Issues Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Men's Issues, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Men's Issues articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Men's IssuesWikipedia:WikiProject Men's IssuesTemplate:WikiProject Men's IssuesMen's Issues Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: Marwick, Alice E.; Caplan, Robyn (26 March 2018). "Drinking male tears: language, the manosphere, and networked harassment". Feminist Media Studies. 18 (4): 543–559. doi:10.1080/14680777.2018.1450568. ISSN 1468-0777. S2CID 149246142 – via The Misplaced Pages Library. Ringrose, Jessica; Lawrence, Emilie (2018). "Remixing misandry, manspreading, and dick pics: networked feminist humour on Tumblr" (PDF). Feminist Media Studies. 18 (4): 686–704. doi:10.1080/14680777.2018.1450351. ISSN 1471-5902 – via ResearchGate.

​

Feminism and misandry

Thread retitled from "Feminism and Misandry are not the same thing".

Look, I get that it's the official policy of Misplaced Pages to support feminism and characterize any criticism of it as completely unfounded and based on hate, etc. This is literally repeated over ten times in the article for some reason, as if it wasn't made clear enough in the opening paragraph. That being said, it is self evident that there are people out there with prejudice and dislike towards men, just like every other race and gender. This is even admitted by the article, although of course it's in the context of claiming that fewer feminists are misandrists. The entire article about misandry contains zero discussion about misandrists other than to paradoxically claim that there are less misandrists among feminists while also claiming that misandry does not exist? The "psychological study" presented consists essentially of asking a group of feminists if they have negative feelings towards men and reporting their answer. Can we really think of no reasons that individuals who are part of a political activist group would avoid damaging their own movement by associating it with politically unpalatable ideas or be in denial about their own prejudice? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dekadoka (talk • contribs)

The official policy of Misplaced Pages is to base it on the most reliable academic sources. In the reality of 2024, the most reliable academic sources harshly criticize antifeminism, and encourage feminism. It was different once upon a time, and it may be different sometime in the future, but today Misplaced Pages will write as the most reliable academic sources write as of 2024. There are more than one source that suggests that antifeminists are more hostile to men than feminists. This is also indicated by Peter Glick and Jessica Whitehead in their article "Hostility toward men and the perceived stability of male dominance". Antifeminists, generally speaking, very often show hostility and even hatred towards those men who do not conform to the ideals of hegemonic masculinity, don't they? In general, one could create an article Hostility towards men based on psychological literature, which is not quite the same as hatred of men, but at least it is something that has been studied as a verified thing by serious psychologists, such as Peter Glick and Jessica Whitehead. Please don't forget to sign your messages. --Reprarina (talk) 12:29, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

I apologize for the frustrated tone of my initial comment. I agree with you that Misplaced Pages should aspire to represent the content of quality academic sources, and that generally these sources are highly critical of antifeminism. That being said, I think an article about misandry should at least attempt to discuss misandrists. Instead what we get is a denial that misandry even exists, a claim that if it does exist it does minimal or no harm because it is not identical to misogyny, and finally a poorly supported claim that there is no link whatsoever with feminism. The term's alleged links with feminism and use to support antifeminism certainly deserve a section in the article but making almost the entire article about these things leaves out important information. Misandry exists and causes harm independent of any false equivalence to misogyny. There are harmful and false male stereotypes which have been examined academically. For example:

1. "All men are fundamentally driven by sex." A recent meta analysis of 211 studies found that while men do have a higher average libido than women, male and female libidos follow a bell curve and the average is quite close. One in three women has a higher libido than the average man. This stereotype may partially arise from the greater tendency of high libido men to interact with large numbers of women.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/202212/do-men-really-have-stronger-sex-drives-than-women

https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fbul0000366

2. Empathy Gap. Research has shown that both men and women have more empathy for women. What effects does this have on human behavior?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15491274/

Perhaps there is a link with men receiving 63% longer prison sentences for the same crimes?

https://repository.law.umich.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1164&context=law_econ_current

Or with male students in school receiving lower grades for the same work?

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01425692.2022.2122942

3. "Men are (insert small group of men who do bad thing)s." Lack of recognition male vs female variability and its effects on the extremes of the bell curves. Although men and women are quite similar on average, men have greater variability in the areas of cognition, physical attributes, and personality.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22329560/ (lots of studies could be cited here)

Some discussion of this is warranted. This data suggests that most of the individuals found at the extremes of human behavior, good and bad, are likely to be men. Hence, it is inaccurate to represent men using only the bad side of the curve. A more accurate view would characterize men as simply being more variable in good and bad ways. — Dekadoka (talk) 15:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

These citations don't appear to mention the term 'Misandry' at all. Have a look at Misplaced Pages's policy on original research. Misplaced Pages cannot make a logicial leap to label the examples you cite here as 'Misandry' - we can only make points which are directly supported by citations. Discussion of this could well be warranted, but we do not have citations here that would allow it to be done in a way which meets Misplaced Pages's policy requirements. MrOllie (talk) 15:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

The first sentence of the article: "Misandry is the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against men or boys."

Prejudice: "a. : a favoring or dislike of something without good reason. b. : unfriendly feelings directed against an individual, a group, or a race" - Merriam-Webster

"To demonstrate that you are not adding original research, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article and directly support the material being presented." - Original research policy

Examples on the topic of antimale prejudice and the false stereotypes surrounding it aren't welcome in a discussion on misandry because they don't include the term misandry? Feels a bit like a Catch-22, no?

Example 1: Stereotyping men as overly sexually driven is incorrect. The reason this is a topic of research is because the stereotype exists. It should be self evident that false stereotypes are potentially harmful. Here is another article that challenges it even more directly:

https://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare

"Not only is the idea that men have higher sex drives an oversimplified notion, but it’s really just not true"

Example 2: Conclusion/Topic from source 1: Men and women have less empathy for men than women. (see title and last sentence of abstract) Dislike, unfriendly feelings, see above definition of prejudice. If someone has access to the full articles and relevant statistical knowledge, they could also pull the percentage of people surveyed who reported negative feelings towards men references under "psychological research" and in the final paragraph of the current article.

Conclusion/Topic from source 2: "This study finds dramatic unexplained gender gaps in federal criminal cases. Conditional on arrest offense, criminal history, and other pre-charge observables, men receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do. Women are also significantly likelier to avoid charges and convictions, and twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted. There are large unexplained gaps across the sentence distribution, and across a

wide variety of specifications, subsamples, and estimation strategies."

Conclusion/Topic from source 3: "Results show that, when comparing students who have identical subject-specific competence, teachers are more likely to give higher grades to girls. Furthermore, they demonstrate for the first time that this grading premium favouring girls is systemic, as teacher and classroom characteristics play a negligible role in reducing it."

Can we agree that all three of these relate to "favoring or disliking without good reason" or "unfriendly feelings directed against " and hence are at least debatably examples of prejudice which is an example of misandry?

Example 3: I agree that referencing the variability hypothesis itself is not directly related and directly supportive, so I think this one would need a better reference. Perhaps a better direction for this would look at individual examples, such as social conditioning factors which lead to male criminal behavior, and the strong correlation between fatherlessness and violent crime? Dekadoka (talk) 16:58, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

You're wasting your time, here. WP:OR is a core policy on Misplaced Pages. That these examples are misandry in your opinion or fit a definition is completely irrelevant if you cannot bring sources that make points directly. MrOllie (talk) 17:08, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Nowhere does the article, let alone the lead section of the article, deny that misandry even exists. The study called "The Misandry Myth" asked adults of both sexes to "report their feminist identity and explicit attitudes toward men". That's not the same as asking a group of feminists if they have negative feelings towards men.Misplaced Pages already has articles on sex differences in humans that would be more relevant to this discussion, including human sexuality, sex differences in crime, and sex differences in psychology.The first sentence of the article needs to be changed to rely less on dictionary definitions; whatever society's attitudes towards men might be, "misandry" is mainly an MRA talking point used to attack feminists. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:00, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

I think the term has unfortunately been contaminated by it's association with antifeminists. This is perhaps why academic articles discussing prejudice and negative perceptions of men don't use the term except in the context of defending feminism. But I suppose if WP:OR requires the exact term to be mentioned in order for an academic article to meet the directly related/directly supportive criteria for relevant information, this information cannot be included under Misplaced Pages's policies. Makes sense. On the other hand, do we consider the phenomena of prejudice against men worth discussing at all, and, if so, where can it be mentioned in a neutral fashion without the comparison to misogyny or linking it to feminism? I feel that there is still relevant academic information that should be presented even if we keep in mind that misogyny is more harmful/systemic/etc.

@Sangdeboeuf The article states that the term was invented by antifeminists for the purpose of criticizing feminism, which implies that it does not describe a real phenomena independent of criticism of feminism. My mistake if I misinterpreted, but this does not appear to be clarified anywhere in the article.

"The Misandry Myth" Just read the questions on the survey if you don't believe me. Question 1: "Are you a feminist?" Question 10: "How warm/favorable or cold/unfavorable do you feel towards men in general." Question 11: “like men,” “dislike men,” “trust men,” “distrust men." There were other questions on the survey so I perhaps I oversimplified, but I think my point stands. Dekadoka (talk) 23:54, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

There is no reason in principle to consider this source unreliable. It does not contradict other sources. It has not been harshly criticized in the academic community. Moreover, it does not avoid calling misandry misandry, but directly uses the word misandrist in relation to some feminists. It is in the interests of those who are for men's rights, and not for the demonization of feminism, to insist on increasing the weight of this source in the article rather than decreasing it. Reprarina (talk) 00:16, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

I shall oppose. The first sentence of the article is quite correct, misandry is the hatred of men, and the article should be primarily about man-hating. And we should not write the article as if MRAs came up with some word instead of using one that already exists in non-MRAs-written dictionaries. In addition, the article should include studies of racialized hatred of black men, since the most general source in the article, namely Ouellette, mentions racialized misandry in his article. And racialized misandry is far from being portrayed in Black male studies as something falsely equivalent, non-systemic, etc. By the way, the Misandry myth article doesn't directly mention MRAs at all. Reprarina (talk) 00:07, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Misandry was an obscure word before it was commandeered by MRAs as a tool against feminism. The meaning the MRAs applied to it is the meaning that stuck: feminists who supposedly hate men. Sources focus primarily on women as notional man-haters, much more than man-hating men, despite the original word allowing for any gender to hate men.

Again, racialized misandry against black men is best saved for another topic page. Otherwise this page will be stretched to mean two different things. It should be mentioned briefly with a link to the other page. The primary meaning of misandry is the one that represents a backlash to feminism. Binksternet (talk) 00:16, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Actually, racialized misandry is a closer topic for the article than weaponization of misandry. We have Antisemitism and Weaponization of antisemitism. We can quite easily find sources for both Misandry and Weaponization of misandry. We can even find sources for Misogyny and Weaponization of misogyny, because, I say this quite responsibly, there are sources that some feminists call misogyny something that, according to the sources, is not misogyny. Reprarina (talk) 00:29, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

That would very likely be viewed as a Content fork (see WP:CFORK). The Misplaced Pages community really, really does not like such forks. MrOllie (talk) 00:38, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

In what world is "misandry" the same as "racialized misandry"? Nonsense. The misandry topic is primarily devoid of race as a factor. When race is introduced, it becomes a different topic. It's the same as Feminism versus White feminism, Black feminism and Multiracial feminist theory. The root term is about gender rights, not race-related. The weaponization of the word misandry by MRAs is this page's main topic. Binksternet (talk) 19:11, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Misandry myth article already say that some feminists have claimed that misandry is a legitimate, even necessary aspect of the movement. It is naive to think that there are not and will not be sources on this aspect. The section on misandry in art is certainly not about MRAs, but for some reason we didn’t write a word in the preamble regarding this aspect. Reprarina (talk) 00:47, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

In other words, "there must be sources". So go find them and cite them, assuming they're reliable. Otherwise this discussion is pointless. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 01:10, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

And yes, the authors of the Misandry myth article quite calmly cited Robin Morgan as an example. Morgan never wrote that misandry is legitimate, using the word misandry. She wrote that man-hating is an honorable and viable political act. However, the authors have calmly turned man-hating into misandry. And we should. Because these are synonymous words. Reprarina (talk) 01:03, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

What I don't quite understand here is why the article titled "discrimination against men" is not facing anything like the political opposition we see here, considering that this very article (correctly) describes misandry and discrimination against men as synonymous.

There's a lot of WP:GAME going on here. 2A10:BCC6:EB4:0:5CFA:6296:E140:60DF (talk) 17:19, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Oddball question—if this isn't the article to include these facts on, which one is? I'm not saying the converse of WP:V (i.e. the negation of WP:ONUS, that every verifiable fact must fit in somewhere) is true—but it does seem like there should be some place where information like this is naturally fit in. Remsense ‥ 论 04:22, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

If one were so inclined, these would be discussed at places like Sex differences in social capital, Sex differences in education, or Sex differences in psychology. MrOllie (talk) 12:56, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

In the end, what you're saying here is largely correct. Even a cursory examination reveals that the academic consensus holds prejudice against men, as generally understood, as an essentially invalid or non-existent concept, and that discussion of it represents a morally reprehensible attempt to divert attention from the much more severe problems faced by women. Certainly that is more or less what this article currently represents, although I still think it could be better written. If that's the goal, this article should be written in much the same way that, say, the article on the flat earth is written, to make it abundantly clear that Misplaced Pages's position - correctly reflecting the academic consensus - is that it is describing something that is culturally pseudoscientific. At that level, there is a question over whether this article should exist at all, although, as I say, there's one on flat earth. 188.74.98.182 (talk) 20:18, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

I assume you are aware that peer-reviewed research, i.e. the reliable sources that Misplaced Pages takes up the cause to use predominantly, are very biased at the moment? There is a massive amount of data indicating that misandry, which btw is not the same as anti-feminism, is a real problem, but in the peer-reviewed literature, papers evaluating such data in an unbiased way is very hard to find or not at all. I was in academia and I would go so far as to describe the situation as censorship. So my question is: Isn't an encyclopedia supposed to be politically neutral? --Felix Tritschler (talk) 22:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

You misunderstand Misplaced Pages's neutral point of view policy, which is about fairly representing significant views that have been published by reliable sources. We are not going to discard that policy based on one Misplaced Pages user's personal experience. Nor do we publish original research, no matter how many internet randos claim to have been censored by academia. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 00:45, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't misunderstand this at all. The thing is that this policy relies on the assumption that the gross of sources sanctioned by academia is politically, and e.g. regarding genders, neutral. Assume for a moment this is not the case - then of course any such source asserting that the gross of other such sources is neutral, isn't worth anything, right? But I see that it doesn't make sense to discuss this any further - Just one more thing: I'd like to send greetings to future readers of this (in case these comment pages are preserved long enough), who live in a time in which they look back at 2024, shaking their heads about how ridiculously obviously things went wrong and way too far in a direction that was initially justified and good, just the same way we from 2024 shake our heads looking back at the times before e.g. women had the right to vote (in which btw of course all sources the public opinion was influenced by, was deemed neutral and totally fine, by opinions from these same authorities). Good bye. --Felix Tritschler (talk) 23:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

There's nothing at WP:NPOV that says reliable sources have to be neutral. Your complaint has been noted and disregarded; this page is not a WP:FORUM to gripe about academia or any other topic. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 23:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

First, my comments concern the quality of the article and are thus well suited for a Misplaced Pages talk page.

Then, your statement "There's nothing at WP:NPOV" = 'Misplaced Pages: Neutral point of view' "that says reliable sources have to be neutral." a) is obviously paradoxical, and b), because it is sadly exactly what happens on Misplaced Pages (sources deemed reliable by Misplaced Pages are not neutral, neither politically nor regarding gender), that even goes beyond confirming my argument from above (that self-evaluations of a pool of biased sources that claim neutrality are irrelevant): You even imply and thus admit that these sources, on average, are not neutral!

It is preposterous that this is not considered a huge problem here and so I stop further supporting Misplaced Pages financially. I have also copied the whole page to put it into a time capsule. --Felix Tritschler (talk) 17:46, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

You seem to have misunderstood what WP:NPOV means. It means Misplaced Pages reflects the POV of the mainstream sources. Note in particular that WP:FALSEBALANCE, (which you appear to be seeking here) is expressly not what is done on Misplaced Pages. The sources are not 'neutral' on lots of topics - one often cited example is Modern flat Earth beliefs. You'll note that that article isn't balanced either. In other words, if academia is biased, so is Misplaced Pages, and editors here are fine with that. MrOllie (talk) 17:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

You repeated what Sangdeboeuf already wrote. So instead of repeating myself, I refer to my other reply (see above). Further, WP:NPOV literally contains the word "neutral" and this is meant so (just that in practice it isn't) and in WP:FALSEBALANCE there's nothing countering it. What's written there is that obvious nonsense (my wording) like flatearth-theories are not worth being represented in articles as valid alternativ theories etc. - These have no meaningful data to support them (!) and aren't even on the spectrum from left-wing to conservative/right-wing or female to male interests - On the other hand, misandry and e.g. counterpositions to the current "Man or bear" Misplaced Pages article and related topics have a lots of solid data to support them, e.g. domestic violence against men, which occurs with ~50% of the frequency of DV against women, the latter of which is btw cited as an example for misogyny in the respective article here. --Felix Tritschler (talk) 23:51, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

You do have to read the whole policy page, not just assume you know what it means based on the title. MrOllie (talk) 00:26, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Ok, I am pretty sure that I now read everything relevant in this regard and have to say that there was nothing new to me (since I skimmed over these pages completely already before, as far as I could see). So I'd have to ask you what specifically you meant that I did not understand. Thanks. --Felix Tritschler (talk) 10:23, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

The parts explained above. NPOV means that the sources are reflected. When they are critical, so too will be the Misplaced Pages article. If you are correct that the reliable sources are very biased at the moment as you wrote above, that means the article will lean very strongly in one direction, just as we lean very strongly against things like Homeopathy. See WP:GOODBIAS. MrOllie (talk) 14:56, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I already considered that (e.g. flatearth theories, see above) - and with neutral, I meant politically neutral and regarding genders, and this is actually how I understood Misplaced Pages's neutrality. It's obvious to me that pseudoscience, i.e. homeopathy, flatearth theories, preastronautic, wokeism etc. isn't even part of a question regarding neutrality. They are obviously non-scientific, alone because they all lack vital principles of the scientific method, most importantly they are not falsifiable, the latter being one of the, if not the most important trait of science.

This is not the case for Misandry, as part of sociology - there's no principle of 'untouchability' like in wokeism, where they say that any criticism is to be disregarded because it comes from a privileged position. - So how do you justify mingling Misandry with the pseudosciences you mentioned? It's got nothing to do with each other - the problem is that academia at the moment is heavily biased politically and so no publications that follow a liberal and feminist narrative are passing the peer-review process. But there is no political influence at work when papers on e.g. preastronautic fail to pass the peer-review-process in important journals.

Isn't it obvious that it's dangerous if certain topics are censored, alone due to political reasons?

--Felix Tritschler (talk) 23:58, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

If academia is heavily biased politically then so too will be Misplaced Pages. There is no mechanism to determine the 'type' of bias. We follow the bias of the reliable sources, full stop. That is what you are not understanding. You're trying to get Misplaced Pages to work in a way that is counter to how it is designed. All manner of scientific disagreements have some political dimension - for example COVID vaccinations have become a highly politicized issue. But Misplaced Pages is still going to follow what medical sources say, even if one side of the political argument doesn't like that. The same applies here. If that is 'dangerous' we'll just have to live with it. MrOllie (talk) 00:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

MrOllie is using homeopathy as an example to show that Misplaced Pages does not give equal validity to all points of view on a topic, as you are evidently proposing we do with misandry. Misplaced Pages does not aspire to be politically neutral, which is another term for false balance. Misplaced Pages follows published, reliable sources. Go read WP:NPOV again. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 14:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

@Felix Tritschler: no one cares if you donate to Misplaced Pages. Your attempt to extort us is even more reason to disregard your comments. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 18:45, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

How did I attempt to extort anyone? I refuse to tolerate such an unsubstantiated allegation. I won't further financially support this organisation for obvious reasons, that's all - also, this is no reason to disregard my comments. --Felix Tritschler (talk) 23:59, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 November 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

From MOS:FIRST: "The first sentence should introduce the topic, and tell the nonspecialist reader what or who the subject is, and often when or where". So, the first sentence can be rewritten:

Misandry is a Pejorative term for a feminism. Formally defined as "the hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against men or boys", the term was invented for false presentation of feminists as "man-haters".

178.120.6.202 (talk) 15:53, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done - There is no source basis supporting this request. The lead literally has a paragraph that makes it clear that this is not a feminist issue. Raladic (talk) 16:15, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

It is what the entire article about. I think we should accent on this from the very first sentence. 178.120.6.202 (talk) 16:39, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:33, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

Marvick and Caplan. They are already in the article. 178.121.1.53 (talk) 06:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done Misandry is not a pejorative term for feminism. According to Marwick and Caplan, misandry is often used as pejorative term for feminism. But often used as ≠ is. For example, antisemitism is often used as a pejorative term for criticism of the State of Israel. It doesn't mean that antisemitism is itself a pejorative term. Authors of the Misandry myth sourse do not view the term as pejorative and write calmly "some feminists are misandrists", "misandry, defined as prejudice towards men, clearly exist". Reprarina (talk) 07:25, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

(Redacted) 178.121.1.53 (talk) 06:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

What are these other sources? Harryhenry1 (talk) 06:45, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Marvick and Caplan, for example. They are already in a "History" section. 178.121.1.53 (talk) 07:02, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

By the way, you know very well that the sources describing the South Korean Womad also (Redacted) than you. Reprarina (talk) 05:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

(Redacted) Social sciences contain a pluralism of opinions. You know what debates there are in feminist sources about how to define the term misogyny? It's hard to figure out which point of view is mainstream and which is fringe. The main thing is to cut off the most fringe points of view, like "power has already been seized by feminists who have established matriarchy and oppress men." And the point of view of the authors of Misandry myth is very much within the mainstream. By the way, as is the point of view of black male scholars that a racialized form of misandry exists and is serious. The growth of citations of these works is stable, there is not much criticism of them. Reprarina (talk) 05:29, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. The AP (talk) 12:20, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Template answer. Consensus is already established in the article. I just want to accent this. 178.121.24.248 (talk) 14:40, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

It is not going to happen. Kindly stop reopening this request. - MrOllie (talk) 14:56, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Time magazine piece by Theresa Iker

Stanford professor Theresa Iker wrote a brief history of MRAs in Time magazine: "The Debate About Whether Men Have Been Left Behind Is Decades Old". The context is recent discussion about the strength of Trump's male fan base. The word "misandrist" appears in Iker's text, but most of it is about MRAs. The bit about misandry says that Warren Farrell claimed that women discriminated against men just as much as men oppressed women: the old misogyny/misandry equivalence claim. Binksternet (talk) 19:07, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

This source has very little to do with the topic of the article, which is devoted to the phenomenon of hatred of men, misandrist tropes in literature, misandry in the criminal justice system and racialized misandry. Your sorce is more related to the article Men's rights movement, or more precisely to Men's rights movement in the United States.--Reprarina (talk) 01:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

• Old requests for peer review
• Misplaced Pages controversial topics
• B-Class level-5 vital articles
• Misplaced Pages level-5 vital articles in Society and social sciences
• B-Class vital articles in Society and social sciences
• B-Class Human rights articles
• Low-importance Human rights articles
• WikiProject Human rights articles
• B-Class sociology articles
• Low-importance sociology articles
• B-Class Feminism articles
• Mid-importance Feminism articles
• WikiProject Feminism articles
• B-Class Gender studies articles
• Low-importance Gender studies articles
• WikiProject Gender studies articles
• B-Class Discrimination articles
• Low-importance Discrimination articles
• WikiProject Discrimination articles
• B-Class Men's Issues articles
• Low-importance Men's Issues articles
• WikiProject Men's Issues articles