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Latest revision as of 20:30, 7 January 2025

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Dave Farina

I have rewatched Dave’s videos on the topic of Tour and the DI a lot of times and I think that an in depth criticism of James’s videos should be made to make it clear via the page why people critique him Mormissen (talk) 07:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

WP:OR, WP:PRIMARY. --Hob Gadling (talk) 09:11, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Ty, im new to Misplaced Pages so i probably need some help Mormissen (talk) 12:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Don't let the gatekeepers put you off. It is obviously not OR to accurately report what a source says.

Do note that you're largely wasting your time here, though, because this page is regularly sanitised by Tour's supporters, regardless of how well-sourced any criticism is. (Indeed, when Tour's own words are too embarrassing to his side, they also will be judged to be unsuitable quotes and removed.) They have a lot invested in keeping up the appearance of a man of science whose creationist apologetics have weight. 2A00:23C5:CF37:4001:E416:6FD1:A898:8B9B (talk) 21:10, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

What seems obvious to you may be clearly false to people with a clue. This is the case here. And those who reject the insertion of Tour's claims are not "Tour's supporters". I think he is full of shit, and Misplaced Pages's rules forbid us to be his megaphone. --Hob Gadling (talk) 08:06, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

While im currently not in the mental headspace to comment much on this right now, I feel like saying “Misplaced Pages’s rules prevent us from being his megaphones” is probably also what Scientologists said before they were excluded from Misplaced Pages.

While I do feel I made the edit too editorialised due to my newness to Misplaced Pages editing, there is also a fair POV where it could have just been edited, instead of completely undone as it added important information Mormissen (talk) 08:14, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

is probably also what Scientologists said What bullshit. If they said it, find the quote of them saying it. And if you think I did something that justifies "excluding" me, say what it is.

Your newness is the reason why you do not recognize that we need reliable sources talking about Tour's nonsense. If we no not have those, no amount of editing will help. --Hob Gadling (talk) 10:31, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

A youtuber is not a reliable source. Especially, since some of his content is potentially libelous. His videos made allegations of plagiarism and Rice University found the allegations to be false. Youtube clips from a biased source are not appropriate for a biography of a living person. PerseusMeredith (talk) 23:03, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Biased sources are not a problem. Self-published sources are. See WP:BIASED and WP:SPS. Regarding ignorant nonsense like creationism, sources explicitly need to be "biased" against it. See WP:FRINGE. Also, WP:YWAB. --Hob Gadling (talk) 10:35, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

When there is already a section about the debate I personally feel like background it’s important, and as the only written articles are either:

This article

Evolution News (DI controlled so obviously pro Tour bias)

Six days (which I assume based on the name is also creationist)

Tours university

A singular Reddit thread

And a bunch of YouTube videos, I feel like showing the actual videos where you can for yourself see exactly how Farina and Tour each said their claims are the only things that could be roughly defined as useable for this Mormissen (talk) 10:02, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

I felt* I mistyped Mormissen (talk) 10:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

You are right that the others are not useable, but that one isn't either. See WP:PRIMARY. --Hob Gadling (talk) 15:08, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Correct, that self published sources shouldn't be used in BLP. But they also cannot include biased, malicious or overly promotional content. The youtuber in question was suspended by twitter for anti-semitism and James Tour is a Messianic Jew. PerseusMeredith (talk) 17:01, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

What does religion have to do with this may I ask •Cyberwolf•talk? 17:11, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

See my reply to Perseus Mormissen (talk) 17:12, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

My point this is hearsay •Cyberwolf•talk? 17:15, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

In my mind, nothing. James Tour makes it a point to not discuss religion in his abiogenesis videos. On the other hand, the youtuber incessantly brings up Tour's religion in a degrading, condescending way. PerseusMeredith (talk) 19:40, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Tour has said he puts the bible over any evidence, also who is the designer then? The G Man from half life? Mormissen (talk) 19:44, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

I think this back and forth underscores that this is youtube clips going back and forth and not something that should be put on a biography of a living person. PerseusMeredith (talk) 19:59, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Ok fair but when that back and forth is about if: Does an intelligent design proponent bring religion into science, something is probably wrong Mormissen (talk) 20:04, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

If degrading means using scientific logic and basically disproving everything creationists claim
Dave has nothing against religion in general he’s against the misinformation a actual scientist with a degree says is correct which everyone in that field disagrees with tour •Cyberwolf•talk? 19:54, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

You're obviously a fan and that's your opinion. But BLP's must be written in a non-partisan manner with what reliable secondary sources have published. That's not the case with these youtube videos, they are self-published (which is specifically prohibited) and partisan (also prohibited) with a great deal of animus to attempt to destroy Tour's life. They don't comply with wikipedia's website.

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons PerseusMeredith (talk) 20:30, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

because im a terminally online loser i know why he was suspended

1) You’re talking about a platform that’s boosting its owners post due to being jealous of Biden and who is working with the extremely pro Israeli President Donald Trump

2) the last part was important as Dave has stated that “the Israeli leadership should be executed for war crimes” and that Israel should be replaced by a state named Palestine where Jews and Arabs are equal

Also I love watching his content and it would be wierd that he regularly calls out Eric Dubay for his anti semetic and straight up Nazi beliefs (See debunking 200 proofs, proof 198 and final experiment 2:55), if he himself was an anti semite Mormissen (talk) 17:11, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

You are confusing this page with a forum. --Hob Gadling (talk) 19:50, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Mb, I was simply trying to counter the (IMO) baseless anti semetism claims which the guy im responding to essentially used to try and invalidate the stuff Farina has said, instead of your actually useful help for a new Misplaced Pages like me Mormissen (talk) 19:54, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedian* Mormissen (talk) 19:55, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

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