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|action4oldid=95204877 A computer is an electronic device that accepts data from the users, processes it, produces results, displays them to the users, and stores the results for future usege |
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== minor: “See also” == |
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== Tim Berners-Lee == |
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“Glossary of computers” and “Glossary of computer hardware terms” both point to the same page. Maybe one should be removed? I can't yet do that because I'm not verified. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 01:19, 29 December 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Done :) ] (]) 01:34, 29 December 2022 (UTC) |
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Hello. |
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==Wiki Education assignment: Linguistics in the Digital Age== |
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I was surprised at the absence of a mention of Tim Berners-Lee in this article, in the section about the internet. Having said that, I'm a perennial novice when it comes to computers, so I wonder if I've been misinformed that he 'invented' the internet (?)/the world wide web (?). I did recheck on Google and it seems that he did, but I'm aware that Google is not God, and I did only glance at the first few results. ] (]) 10:30, 14 September 2024 (UTC) |
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{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Misplaced Pages:Wiki_Ed/University_of_Arizona/Linguistics_in_the_Digital_Age_(Spring_2023) | assignments = ] | start_date = 2023-01-11 | end_date = 2023-05-11 }} |
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:The Internet is the network of computers themselves and the underlying protocols that make basic communication possible. The Internet was first developed in the mid-20th century, culminating in the the ] we presently use first veing published in 1974, authored by ] and ]. Berners-Lee was instead the primary inventor of the ] in 1990, which is the specific later technology that uses the Internet to share ] documents. It's a relatively common error to confuse the two. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 11:22, 14 September 2024 (UTC) |
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<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by ] (]) 01:52, 9 May 2023 (UTC)</span> |
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::Thanks, Remsense. Do you think Berners-Lee is worthy of a mention in the article for being the primary inventor of the World Wide Web? ] (]) 13:49, 15 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::I don't see him as a glaring omission from this article, as he only invented a particular piece of network software, rather than directly impacting the computer itself. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 02:15, 16 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::Thanks. But it wasn't 'any old' piece of software, was it? How might the computer have developed without it? I'm guessing the majority, or at least a significant percentage, of computer users use their computer for social media and streaming entertainment; do those rely on the WWW? Or would those be possible without it? ] (]) 14:06, 24 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::{{xt|How might the computer have developed without it?}} |
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:::::Desktop and laptop computers were in essentially the same architectural state in 1990 than they are in now, including network capabilities. I concede that the web mattered a lot for the development of mobile computer form factors, but I still think it is okay that we do not mention Berners-Lee by name, given we do not mention Cerf or many other important figures in the history of the Internet, and we only have so much space. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 14:11, 24 September 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::Thanks, Remsense. ] (]) 15:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC) |
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* Can't think why STB-L would be mentioned here. 'Computer' is a much broader and older term than 'internet', let alone 'world-wide web' and STB-L's notability stems from the WWW. ] (]) 17:22, 24 September 2024 (UTC) |
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*:Thanks, Andy. ] (]) 17:10, 7 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::{{xt|How might the computer have developed without it?}} |
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:::::] stacks were already doing most of it, hypertext, scripting, integrating ] in the 90s to give a Google Street-view -style perspective (as seen in ]) and we already had ] so without the WWW we ] would have just seen eWorld host more interactive content via Stacks. It may have led to wikipedia earlier considering that wikipedia is ideologically like ] and technologically like ]. |
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:::::{{xt|I'm guessing the majority, or at least a significant percentage, of computer users use their computer for social media and streaming entertainment; do those rely on the WWW?}} |
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:::::Some such services are available both by using web-browser protocols and by using their own independent API that's independent of the web. Some are served only via public web and others only via private API. I can appreciate that streaming cat videos is likely ''subjectively'' salient ''at the moment'' just as ''not getting killed by bombs'' was the benefit "the majority, or at least a significant percentage, of" people got from computers mid last century. I very much doubt Turing envisaged computers would be used to stream videos of cats, so I very much doubt that ''we'' can accurately speculate what computers will do in the very near future. |
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:::::There are other computer technologies "the majority, or at least a significant percentage, of" people do or will depend upon daily whether that's automatic transmission systems in cars, autopilots in aeroplanes, microwave ovens, pacemakers, hearing aids, ''et al'' and I just don't think the article would benefit from citing the names of the people who invented cars, human flight, cooking, medicine, etc. Turing's point is that if a process can be reduced to calculations, it can be automated -- and that's a lot more than just streaming cat videos. ] (]) 12:24, 11 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::Thanks. ] (]) 11:45, 31 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2023 == |
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== Cleanup request == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Computer|answered=yes}} |
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{{edit semi-protected|answered=yes}} |
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I just read the History section and a few segments seemed pretty rough / poorly formatted: |
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Image Colossus.jpg has wrong footer. Please change: |
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# ''In 1831–1835, mathematician and engineer Giovanni Plana devised a Perpetual Calendar machine, which, through a system of pulleys and cylinders '''and over''','' -- if content was deleted from "and over" it should be restored; otherwise "and over" should be deleted. |
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# ''after working on his difference engine he announced his invention in 1822, in a paper to the Royal Astronomical Society, titled "Note on the application of machinery to the computation of astronomical and mathematical tables", '''he also''''' -- a comma cannot do that; change to "table'''s. He''' also" as a new sentence. |
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# ''The metal–oxide–silicon field-effect transistor (MOSFET), also known as the MOS transistor, The MOSFET invented at Bell Labs between 1955 and 1960, It was the'' -- merge several run-on sentence fragments here into a genuine sentence: "The metal–oxide–silicon field-effect transistor (MOSFET), also known as the MOS transistor, '''was invented''' at Bell Labs between 1955 and '''1960 and was''' the". |
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# ''SoC, and the flash memory is usually placed right next to the '''SoC, this all done''' to improve data transfer speeds, as the'' -- this is already a long run-on sentence by this point so begin a new one: "next to the '''SoC. This is''' done to". |
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# ''modern SoCs ('''Such''' as the Snapdragon'' -- there is no need to capitalise "S" in "Such"; change to "such". |
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Thanks. ] (]) 11:39, 11 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> That whole section could use more care, but thanks for identifying some of the more egregious stuff. ] (]) 20:34, 11 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Analog and Digital Computers == |
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Computers and computing devices from different eras.<br>Top row: automatic mechanical calculator (1820) (]), first-generation computer (])<br>Middle row: early vacuum tube computer (]), ] (IBM ])<br />Bottom row: ] (Nintendo ]), ] (] Water 2) |
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I think there should be a paragraph on digital computers in relation to the fact that currently all what we currently call digital computers are in fact analog computers simulating a digital computer. Too many people think they are actually digital rather than analog with tolerances to infer a digital behaviour. Suggested paragraph... |
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"While often referred to as 'digital computers,' modern computing devices are, in reality, analog computers that simulate digital behavior. These devices rely on analog components, such as transistors and electrical signals, to process information. By carefully controlling the tolerances and thresholds of these analog components, engineers can create the illusion of digital behavior, where discrete binary values (0s and 1s) are processed and manipulated. However, it's essential to recognize that this digital behavior is an abstraction, built upon the underlying analog nature of the physical components." ] (]) 15:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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], the first ] ] ] computing device, was used to break German ciphers during World War II. It is seen here in use at ] in 1943. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 12:07, May 30, 2023 (UTC)</small> |
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: That's completely missing the point and would be a bad change to make to the article. ] (]) 16:20, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a ] for this alteration ''']''' using the {{Tlx|Edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> '''<span style="color:#f535aa">—</span> ] <span style="color:#f535aa">(] • ])</span>''' 13:05, 30 May 2023 (UTC) |
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::Actually explaining misnomers is very educational and should be in every article. Misplaced Pages is supposed to be all factual, and so many people grow up not realizing facts because of such and wikipedia is becoming more and more the source of truth for a lot of people. |
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::Is it the actual fact you believe shouldn't be stated in the article or the way I worded it which should be factual and I doubt any computer scientist or physics expert would say otherwise. ] (]) 16:48, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::No, the point is to tell you what is the case, and only what is pertinent. Usually that does not require explicitly ruling out everything that is not the case or misconceptions not potentially implied from a plain reading of the text. You think a distinction one could identify is interesting, but that does not deserve to be extrapolated out to a primary point of focus for readers because you've decided to confuse yourself on purpose about it. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 17:05, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::You probably think ROM is not random access memory. Its worth noting that Buchholz himself acknowledged the potential for confusion between the terms "random access" and "read/write," but the terminology had already become widespread by the time he expressed his concerns. |
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::::Seems digital is similar, in this analog world there pretty much isn't anything digital outside of conceptual and any electronics engineer will know that. ] (]) 06:36, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::* It's not a misnomer. Digital computers are digital, they work by digital electronics. |
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::: ] ''is'' fundamentally analogue. Aspects such as signal ]s, ], ] and (into the time domain) ] are all analogue and crucial to good design of their circuits. But once these low-level circuits are designed, they can be assembled into larger architectures with little thought as to their analogue behaviour, or at least by codifying this as some basic rules to follow. From that point on, they can be ''treated'' as digital functional blocks, without having to consider the underlying analogue implementation. |
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::: Once we're into computers, then we're even further abstracted. We no longer see signal levels or logic families, we're reduced purely to a 'bit' or 'word', because we'd never get anywhere otherwise. ] (]) 20:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::As stated, digital computers are purely simulated on an analog platform. ] (]) 06:34, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::Your observation that the physical world is unideal and noisy is not new, interesting, or useful here. You are trying to shove a fixation of yours where it doesn't belong, into a place where everyone already understands it but does not mention it because it doesn't matter. That's why we say what sources do in proportion to how often they say it. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 06:39, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::] The basic building block of any digital computer is the ]. The vast majority of these are nowadays made using ]s, which are connected in such a way that they operate either in ''cutoff mode'' or ''saturation mode'' - the FET either conducts, or it doesn't, and so it acts like a switch - either "off" or "on", usually represented by the binary values 0 and 1. Between these two modes, FETs also have a ''linear mode'' within which it is purely analogue and can amplify a signal. The same applies to ]s, which were used to construct the majority of logic gates until the 1970s/1980s. It is perfectly possible to construct a logic gate using ]s; one feature of the relay is that there is no linear mode - the output is either "off" or "on", there is nothing in between. Even if a slowly-increasing input is applied, at some point the output of the relay will snap instantaneously from one state to the other, without any graduation. Logic gates that use either FETs or BJTs must necessarily pass through the linear region when the transistor is changing state, but with careful design, this period is extremely short. One reason that CMOS devices get hot is that when a pair of FETs (see diagram of a CMOS inverter) is changing state, the power rail (Vdd) is briefly short-circuited to ground (Vss) whilst the two FETs are conducting simultaneously. |
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::::::As an aside, but on a related matter: just over 46 years ago, there was an article in '']'' magazine<ref>{{cite magazine |last=Penfold |first=R.A. |date=October 1978 |editor-last=Bennett |editor-first=Fred E. |title=MW LW Radio |magazine=Everyday Electronics |location=London |publisher=IPC Magazines |volume=7 |issue=14 |pages=740–4 }}</ref> showing how to construct a small AM radio receiver that used only two semiconductor devices: a Mullard OA91 germanium diode used as a ], and a ] integrated circuit, a device that contained four two-input ]. In the finished radio, one NOR gate was unused (and tied to Vss), and the other three were wired as inverters and connected (basically, by feeding the output back to the input through a resistor) in such a fashion that they operated in linear mode, and functioned as amplifiers. So, it can be said that CMOS logic gates ''are'' analogue devices, but when used in a digital computer, the fact that the inputs will be at either of the two supply voltages means that the output will also be at one of these voltages. |
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::::::I should point out that all digital computers emply a ], which is not just used for synchronisation, it is also used to verify the validity of logic levels. In its simplest form, when the clock is in one state, one set of data wires is stable and the other is in an indeterminate state, during which time these will be conditioned from the first set; and when the clock line changes to its other state, the second set then become stable and the first set will become indeterminate and are then conditioned from the second set. By checking the clock state, you can find which data wires are stable - and it will be found that all of these will be at one or the other of the two supply voltages. None will be at an intermediate voltage: their signals are not analogue, but digital. --] 🌹 (]) 21:28, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::yes the output is digital but the input is analog. Its inherently analog simulating digital behaviour. ] (]) 02:57, 26 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Job == |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2023 == |
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As computer is also a ], there should be some disambiguation in this article. So many computing related articles start with "in computer science," or similar, but ''computer'' today implies machine, not the job title. How to add this info? ] (]) 11:11, 13 January 2025 (UTC) |
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{{edit semi-protected|Computer|answered=y}} |
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remove \| from link to category |
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:Did you miss the standard disambiguation page hatnote? Or what, what are you asking? The other article as presently written isn't confusing as to what its subject is. However, it does mangle the ] distinction pretty badly, so that should be fixed. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 11:24, 13 January 2025 (UTC) |
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\\] ] (]) 15:29, 11 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:{{replyto|Robert Wünsche}} ] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> It's not clear, but I assume that you're referring to the line <code><nowiki>]</nowiki></code> - this is not a link, it is a category; the evidence is in the rendered page where it shows in the category box at the bottom, and not as a rendered link. If you are asking to remove the pipe and space, these are intentional: see ] and ]. --] 🌹 (]) 10:16, 12 November 2023 (UTC) |
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Hello.
I was surprised at the absence of a mention of Tim Berners-Lee in this article, in the section about the internet. Having said that, I'm a perennial novice when it comes to computers, so I wonder if I've been misinformed that he 'invented' the internet (?)/the world wide web (?). I did recheck on Google and it seems that he did, but I'm aware that Google is not God, and I did only glance at the first few results. Paulb2210 (talk) 10:30, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
I just read the History section and a few segments seemed pretty rough / poorly formatted:
I think there should be a paragraph on digital computers in relation to the fact that currently all what we currently call digital computers are in fact analog computers simulating a digital computer. Too many people think they are actually digital rather than analog with tolerances to infer a digital behaviour. Suggested paragraph...
"While often referred to as 'digital computers,' modern computing devices are, in reality, analog computers that simulate digital behavior. These devices rely on analog components, such as transistors and electrical signals, to process information. By carefully controlling the tolerances and thresholds of these analog components, engineers can create the illusion of digital behavior, where discrete binary values (0s and 1s) are processed and manipulated. However, it's essential to recognize that this digital behavior is an abstraction, built upon the underlying analog nature of the physical components." 2405:6E00:2229:7BB:112A:78DC:C83D:41C4 (talk) 15:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
level-2 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
Done That whole section could use more care, but thanks for identifying some of the more egregious stuff. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 20:34, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
