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Revision as of 01:59, 23 August 2024 editTgeorgescu (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users55,058 edits →Request concerning Johnrpenner: there was an off-wiki hounding campaign against me← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 07:03, 11 January 2025 edit undoIzno (talk | contribs)Checkusers, Interface administrators, Administrators115,129 edits Adding {{pp-vandalism}}Tag: Twinkle
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			==PerspicazHistorian==
	==KlayCax==
			{{hat|{{u|PerspicazHistorian}} is blocked indefinitely from mainspace. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 03:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC) }}
	{{hat|{{user|KlayCax}} is indefinitely ] from ], broadly construed. KlayCax is also warned that their conduct in the area of ] has fallen short of community expectations. ] (]) 18:04, 16 August 2024 (UTC)}}
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>		<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
	===Request concerning KlayCax===		===Request concerning PerspicazHistorian===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Prcc27}} 00:03, 28 July 2024 (UTC)		; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
	; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|KlayCax}}<p>{{ds/log|KlayCax}}</p>		; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PerspicazHistorian}}<p>{{ds/log|PerspicazHistorian}}</p>
	<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->		<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]		;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
	<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->		<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :		; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
	<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->		<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
	# Added RFKJR to infobox without consensus.		# - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of ] (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
			# - tag bombed the highly vetted ] article without any discussion or reason
	# Discussion attempt to add RFKJR to infobox.
	# Added Cornell West to infobox without consensus.		# - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
			# - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting
	# Discussion attempt to add RFKJR to infobox.
	# Added RFKJR to infobox without consensus.		# - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
	# Added RFKJR to infobox without consensus.		# - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
			# - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "{{tq|This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.}}"
	# Discussion attempt to add RFKJR to the infobox.
	; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :		; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
	<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->		<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
			*Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
	# Block for edit-warring on ] article/arbitration decision enforced.
			;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	# Partial block for edit-warring.
	# Blocked for edit-warring.
	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on (see the system log linked to above).
	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :		; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
	<!-- Add any further comment here -->		<!-- Add any further comment here -->
	KlayCax has started several different discussions and made actual edits ] for third-party candidates (especially RFKJR) to be added to the infobox. The July 21st discussion was started while discussions on the matter were already ongoing (). They’ve continuously been trying to add Kennedy to the infobox, even though the matter has already been resolved . The addition of Cornell West went against the ballot access and polling criteria spelled out in the for state infoboxes. We shouldn’t have to have a discussion with KlayCax every month explaining that there’s no consensus for adding Kennedy at this stage. ] (]) 00:03, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
	:''Response @KlayCax:'' ] isn’t an RfC (you claimed it was). We came up with a consensus for state infoboxes at the main article’s talk page: 5%+ polling average and ballot access. Cornell West has ''never'' had a polling average of 5%+ in Michigan. The main issue regarding you adding West to the infobox is you added someone that isn’t even on the ballot in Michigan and is polling poorly. This has nothing to do with polling consistency; West has consistently polled below 5%. ] (]) 15:09, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
	:''Response @KlayCax:'' Wrong again. Your May 13th edit was made after was closed on May 12th. Nevertheless, it was clear even before that RfC that consensus was against inclusion. ] (]) 19:47, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
	:''Response {{ping|Red-tailed hawk}}'' I believe David O. Johnson was the user that was initially planning on reporting KlayCax. But since that user appears to be busy, I offered to take over and make the report in their place. (Please see: ). ] (]) 03:16, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
	:''Comment:'' Regarding sanctions, I think KlayCax should either be topic banned, or given KlayCax’s disruptive actions are not isolated to only one topic, a ban that is more broad may be in order. ] (]) 02:13, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
	:''Note to admins ({{ping|ScottishFinnishRadish}} {{ping| Red-tailed hawk}}):'' I just wanted to let you both know that I added yet another diff of {{ping|KlayCax}}’s disruptive behavior pushing third party candidates into the infoboxes. A few minutes ago, KlayCax added RFKJR. to the Texas infobox, even though RFKJR. has not appeared in ''any'' Harris v. Trump v. Kennedy state polls. Clearly Kennedy fails the polling criterion per consensus. KlayCax is still ignoring ], even after I already to them that ] has limits. ] (]) 10:23, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	:''Response @Super Goku V:'' The context of my statement was to use the same criteria: polling and ballot access. Nationwide polling for the national infobox; statewide polling for state infoboxes. Never said qualifying for national infobox = qualifying for every single state infobox. ] (]) 11:07, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	:''Response @KlayCax:'' Why would we use polls that have the wrong Democratic nominee, especially when we know RFKJR does worse in polls with the correct nominee..? You may not have broken policy (this time) per se, but it is best to err on the side of caution on articles with discretionary sanctions. And I’m disappointed you decided to ignore my advice. ] (]) 07:31, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	:''Response @XavierGreen:'' Before a few days ago, it was quite clear RFKJR failed the RfC criteria. Kennedy possibly now meeting the criteria is irrelevant to KlayCax’s past disruptions. ] (]) 17:39, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
	<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
	<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
			I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
	===Discussion concerning KlayCax===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
			:While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to ]. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by KlayCax====
			*PerspicazHistorian is still using sources (see ]) and wishing to move ] to ] which is a blatant POV. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 04:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
	''Response to Prcc27's initial AE:''
			; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
	To summarize:
			<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
			<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	* Prcc27 is wrong to claim that my opinions violate the principle of ] or that I'm pushing candidates into the infobox. On article after article, in the ] (I supported ], ], ], and other parties being added) I have consistently have been an advocate of broadly displaying the candidates within election articles within the infobox. Differences of opinions among editors is normal. Particularly when it involves controversial subject matter such as the ]. Talk page discussion in these instances is a good thing. A look at the edits in question shows it was a good faith attempt to reach consensus. Not an attempt to overturn the RFC.
			===Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
	* Furthermore, I was not "attempting" to overturn an "already... resolved ". At no point did I ever even attempt to overturn the RFC. It should be clear by the context that I was polling editors on whether the requirements of the RFC has been made. (As the criteria laid out .) Because of this, ] to state that it appears that Kennedy Jr. has either met or was about to immediately meet the requirements of the RFC: being certified in a total amount of states that exceed 270 electoral votes and polling above 5%. The goal of the discussion was to see whether there was now a consensus to add.
			<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
			====Statement by PerspicazHistorian ====
	* The March 6th and May 13th edits were ]. (Added later: The RFC concluded on the 12th. Ballot petitions were seen by many as counting.)
			*By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on ] Page.
			I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before ] told me about this: ].
			Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.<br>
			*In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on ] by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to ] it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of ].<br>
			*As a clarification to my edit on ], it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this . I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
			:@], Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in ]. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! ] (]) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
			::Yes, I will commit to that. ] (]) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) </small>
			:At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when ] was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. ] (]) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
			*Hi @] , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
			::''<small>P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards.</small>'' ] (]) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)<small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.] (]) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small>
			*1) I just asked an user @] if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
	* Both Jill Stein and Cornell West are/were polling above 5% and had either reported by ] or confirmed certified ballot access at the time the June 18th edit was made, it was a self-proclaimed ] edit, and it was on the ] article, not the ] article. Prcc27 favored a "three poll criteria + 5%" but there was nothing in the linked source to say that this was a consensus of editors. (Even under ]) He then removed it, it was not reverted, and I don't feel particularly strong either way or another about West or Stein being in the infobox.
			:2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! ] (]) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
			::even @] is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. ] (]) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::as mentioned by @] before, <sub>Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here</sub>. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. ] (]) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
			::::@] I once filed a to find it @] is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. ] (]) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) <small>moving to correct section ] (]) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)</small>
			*Hi @] @], In my defense I just want to say that
	* The Lukt64 and Sendpls user edits had nothing to do with discussions on whether the RFC was resolved. Rather, they were just requests to add RFK into the article, so this was not simply "spamming the same thing three times" as argued.
			:1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on ] page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
			:2) My main interest in editing is ] and ] topics.
			:3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
			:Please do not block me. ] (]) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
			*@] I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @] I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
			*@]@] I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
			*@] This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:@] I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned ]. ] (]) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
			*::@]@] I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
			*::The article ] doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about ], I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! ] (]) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
			*:::@] You mean to say, "<sub>The ''prasada'' is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, ] and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the ]. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. "</sub> is not copy pasted by website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? ] (]) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
			*::::@ ] I just asked others to share their opinion in the enforcement. With all due respect, I don't think its wrong in any sense. ] (]) 15:13, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
			*:::::To all the admins involved here,
			*:::::* I agree to keep learning and apologize if my previous edits/replies have annoyed the admins.
			*:::::* I have not edit warred since a month and please see it as my willingness to keep learning and getting better.
			*:::::*Please give me a chance, I understand concern of you all and respect your opinion in the matter. But please don't block me from editing from main article space. I promise that I will abide by all the rules and will learn from other editors.
			*:::::] (]) 15:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
			====Statement by LukeEmily====
	Finally, many editors in mid-July stated that the issue needed to be revisited. The other aspects are clearly taken out of context and not rules violations. ] (]) 07:46, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
			PerspicazHistorian also violated ] by engaging in an edit war with {{u|Ratnahastin}} who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.] (])
			====Statement by Doug Weller====
	''Response to Prcc27's reply:''
			I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and ]'s comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving ] to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. ] (]) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. ] ] 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... ] ] 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
	The RFC was ].
			====Statement by Toddy1====
	1.) I explained my reasoning at the time. Both Jill Stein and Cornell West have polled at or above 5% in Michigan. There was never a consensus on whether 5% should be an ''average ''or ''individual ''polls (since RFK has been the only one to get both it's not been approached at all outside of our conversations) and the matter was left to editor's discretion.
			This is another editor who appears to have pro-] (RSS) and pro-] (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-] views, but allowed ] to say whatever they liked.
			A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.
	2.) At the time, '''local newspapers wrongly reported West's ballot access statement as a fact in their own voice''', as West had '' stated'' that he had been certified w/ ballot access at the time. (The newspapers in question were of course considered ] and I was working off of that.) In terms of Jill Stein, she has ballot access in Michigan as a member of the ].
			If we want to talk about ] when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .
	3.) Per ] it was not reinstated. ] (]) 21:48, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
			A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.
	''Response to third Prcc27:''
			I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">--] ]</span> 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
	Not true. On May 13th, "ballot access" was seen by many editors as having "had enough petitions" (as clearly visible), it was reverted, a talk page discussion ensured, and it was not reinstated by me per ]. ] (]) 23:53, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
			====Statement by Capitals00====
	''Response to Muboshgu:''
			I find the comment from {{U|Toddy1}} to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "{{tq|Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India}}"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like ].
			You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user ]. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "{{tq|seek to censor}}" this editor due to his "{{tq| pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views}}". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure ] is coming for you. ] (]) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
	Muboshgu's claims that I was violating ] in the ] and ] articles. In response to this:
			====Statement by Vanamonde93====
	I was not pushing any kind or sort of "left-wing" point of view in the J.D. Vance article — '''you seem to be arguing that I'm both violating ] by promoting a disproportionate left (on Vance article) AND right-wing perspective (on Kamala article), and with all due respect: that doesn't make sense '''— by noting that he has been influenced by the ] movement, a fact and description that he has also claimed and has been widely reported. It certainly ''does'' look like vandalism when it's not trimmed but removed from the article entirely. The entire notion that it is POV-pushing seems to be based on the claim that "his opinions on X or Y are unpopular so they shouldn't be in the article". That is of course not what ] means. ] is about reflecting the opinion of reliable sources. Not "doesn't improve or diminish their standing in the eyes of the median voter". Reliable sources have mentioned J.D. Vance's ties to the "dissent/edgy online right." It certainly does deserve mention on Misplaced Pages and reactionary thought is by no means too "obscure" a concept or too difficult to understand for readers.
			{{U|Toddy1}}: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.
			That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. ], entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ({{tq|"first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya"}}, and poor sources (like , and , whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. ], also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.
	At the time, there was already a Wikilinks for readers who want more detail. I reached out on talk - as you noted - and a majority wanted it kept.
			I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. {{U|Bishonen}} If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. ] (]) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
	Many American conservatives ''do'' use Marxism as an insult against those who hold left-wing economic positions. This is however clearly not what my edits were. Donald J. Harris is considered an economist in the ] and ]. His , is labeled a post-Keynesian and Marxian economist by multiple sources, and it's not POV-pushing to mention it, nor {{tqi|"fail verification"}}. It's also typical to list the ideology of economists in the first sentence of the article. (See ] for instance.) Explanations for both edits were also given on their respective talk pages before the start of the ].
			:Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . ] (]) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
	You left out that I also added at the same time a statement that, which undercuts the idea that Donald J. Harris influenced Kamala to any significant extent. (Donald J. Harris and Kamala Harris are notoriously not close and differ widely on politics.) The difference of the edit showing that it was added in at the same time the diffs cited by him were. Are Marxists fans of the Democratic Party? No, of course not. All of this, again, is just differing editorial perspectives that led to discussion. ] (]) 21:16, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
			====Statement by UtherSRG====
	''Response to SashiRolls:''
			I've mostly dealt with PH around ]. They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the ] when they can demonstrate they no longer have ] issues. - ] ] 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
			:Based on , I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - ] ] 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
	Edits in question.
			::They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in ] territory here. - ] ] 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
			::: is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - ] ] 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
			===Result concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
	: The June 12, 2024 edit was in regards to ''political parties'' rather than coalitions. Listing ] or its constituent parties would have been ] at the time . The ''Deccan Herald'' source in question states: {{tqi|In France, currently there are two major parties in the running, among others. The first is the ruling party, Renaissance(RE), or En Marche! as it was earlier known. The hold the majority in the National Assembly, France's lower house and the Senate... In opposition is Marine Le Pen and her party, National Rally, a.k.a. Rassemblement National(RN). RN is a right wing populist party that recently gained a large number of seats in the 2024 EU elections}}.
	: The was in reference to this article, which : {{tqi|In the often contentious and acrimonious debates over...}} (in regards to historians/political scientists over the matter.) What was being cited there wasn't the author's opinion on the matter. What was being referred was his meta-analysis of the the state of the literature as of 2023.
	: The ] edit is sourced to an online survey. That is true. However, in recent years due to low-response rates/other factors, with the differences between online/telephone survey accuracy sharply decreasing. Partisan polling is fine as long as it comes from a ]. (See ] for ]) I also later replaced it with this higher-quality source .
	Sourcing in question.
	: The ] sourced ''The Spectator'' (]), a ], and followed the guidelines for a ] right-wing view, attributing the view exclusively to Jeff Fynn-Paul.
	: The edit doesn't make the claim. It states that the claim has been widely believed among sociologists. Those are two different claims with two very different meanings.
	''Final concluding notes:''
	'''I'm requesting that the closing admin go through every edit cited before coming to a AE decision.''' I'm happy to explain any edit that is seem as problematic if need be through private (email) or public response (here).
	I do not believe that there was a violation of Misplaced Pages rules within the differences cited. Many of the individuals commenting have made personal attacks, false ] accusations, and similar things against me over the past year, but per ]/] guidelines I've been hesitant about mentioning this until now, as not sure what I can write on this outside of vague references.
	I've reached the max word limit (~at 1500 albeit going slightly over) to respond to every claim but it should be clear by the above that the claims are baseless and throwing the kitchen sink. ] (]) 09:16, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	'''Final concluding notes: Part II'''
	Expected the above to be my final message but , {{ping|Red-tailed sock}}.
	Prcc27 unilaterally changed the infobox box inclusion criteria and then ''retroactively'' punished me for the supposed "violation". If you notice: the ] was ''one'' poll with 5% ballot access.
	He then wanted to modify it so it was a "consistent polling criteria" of 3 polls above 5% with a 5%+ average. I found that permissible and even logical. (Despite it not being the original agreed upon criteria.)
	Now, he reports me retroactively for violating a "criteria" that was not specified or outlined or notified, saying that ''only'' those with Harris as a candidate are valid, saying {{tqi|No Harris/Trump/Kennedy polling in Texas; fails polling criterion}}. That is absolutely astonishing as this "change in criteria" was not notified to neither me or the editors on the ] talk page and appears to be entirely retroactively applied decision. (At the very least: I was never notified of it.) I'm definitely not going to touch this topic now as I have absolutely ''no'' interest on editing the ]-related articles anymore. Zilch. Zero. Nada. I simply don't have the time or effort to respond to frivolous claims, evershifting goal posts, and intentionally boobytrapped edits.
	Willing to respond to any seemingly problematic edits if a closer has a question. For now: I feel like I explained all of the cited edits and I'm completely burnt out of this conversation. ] (]) 07:05, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Qutlook====
	<s>:It may also be noted that KlayCax has been warned in the past on other articles for deceptive editing and has been given a “Final Warning” by ScottishFinnishRadish. Just FYI and my two cents for the time being. ] (]) 04:11, 28 July 2024 (UTC)</s>
	:This has already been stated in the head, please disregard. ] (]) 18:31, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
	::(Response to Left guide's first statement) Yes, I did do that complaint. HOWEVER, I did not have the diffs of which people were talking about. So I did not open a case. ] (]) 14:41, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
	:::(Response to Super Goku V’s second statement) Maybe it would be best to clarify that I was told ''if'' I wanted disciplinary action against KlayCax I would need to open an AE. Though, as stated, I did not have the diffs that would be needed to properly open an AE request. ] (]) 03:30, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
	::::No, I mean has everyone said what they have wanted to say. ] (]) 16:22, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
	:(Response to KlayCax's bulletpoint No. 5) An outlier poll does not, and WOULD NOT argue enough for an inclusion into the infobox, nor does a party "claiming" to have ballot access mean anything until it is fact-checked and proven by factual sources. ] (]) 20:40, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
	:(Response to Prcc27’s comment) May it be considered that an indefinite block be done considering you have said that it is not only one topic they interact with. ] (]) 04:44, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
	:(Response to KlayCax) The max word limit you were told to be under was 1000 words. Not 1500. ] (]) 16:00, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
	:I have reckon everyone here has made up their minds on KlayCax have we? ] (]) 02:32, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
	==== Statement by David A ====
	:I personally think that this editor seems well-intended and mostly harmless, so I hope that his punishment (if any) will not be unnecessarily harsh. Perhaps he can simply be ordered by a Misplaced Pages administrator to stop attempting to add West, Kennedy, and other minor candidates to the infobox? ] (]) 09:15, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
	==== Statement by Left guide ====
	:It's worth noting that less than a week ago, at an admin's talk page by a user different from the filer of this request. ] (]) 09:23, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
	::I ran KlayCax's section into the word count tool and the result was '''1241 words''', more than double the 500 limit. ] (]) 00:42, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Muboshgu====
	KlayCax has made disruptive POV edits at the 2024 US presidential election page as discussed. They have also been disruptive on other articles related to the election, including ], edit warring over some obscure political views. See ] for discussion they started after they were reverted. Also they made accusations of when a user removed information that should have been removed, and . They also tried to add to ] and ] that Donald Harris was involved in Marxism, which fails verification and is a significant POV term used by the right wing in today's US political situation. See ] for more of that discussion. &ndash;&nbsp;]&nbsp;(]) 16:34, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
	: who was editing against the consensus of that RfC. &ndash;&nbsp;]&nbsp;(]) 18:17, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by GreatCaesarsGhost====
	:<s>I agree with David A that KlayCax is mostly harmless but deserves some sanction</s>. My concern is they are not adhering to ]. KlayCax is being too bold in making major edits that they know will be subject to revert or controversy. As I noted here they will sometimes act against established consensus due to evolving events that they deem have negated that consensus (when most others disagree). I do wish that they would acknowledge and reflect that criticism of their edits is coming from many editors. ''<small>]</small>'' 16:48, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
	::Striking my prior advocacy for leniency. I have limited engagement with KC, and am thus not in a position to comment on their overall behavior. ''<small>]</small>'' 12:23, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Super Goku V====
	There seems to be some confusion about the RfC that was mentioned due to how it was linked to, so to clear that up it is my understanding that the referenced RfC is ] --] (]) 03:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
	:To add, the below mentioned archived talk page discussion is relevant to this as it involved discussion on the 22nd and 23rd about KlayCax's talk page edits. There were comments that the appropriate venue was either ANI or AE. --] (]) 04:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
	''Response to Left guide:'' Yes, that seems to be from ] Qutlook said at the time, {{tpq|q=y|After speaking to an admin who has warned KlayCax before for disruptive editing I have been told to do this... One Problem, I don't have those diffs so I don't ''currently'' have an open AE request.}} Not sure why he said he was told to do so, but it is related in my opinion. --] (]) 03:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
	''Response to Qutlook:'' Gotcha. I will note above that the archived talk page discussion is still relevant to this discussion. --] (]) 04:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
	:Not sure what you mean. If you are referring to your earlier indefinite block comment, then I don't agree on that. --] (]) 03:03, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
	:Gotcha. For myself, I think that it should be noted that there was a single false ] accusation, not multiple. Other than that, I think that either ScottishFinnishRadish's or Prcc27's suggested remedies would work. --] (]) 18:42, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
	''Response to KlayCax:'' <s>Just to check, do you understand the word limits as noted at the top of this page? {{tpq|q=y|'''Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed ''500 words and 20 diffs''''', except by permission of a reviewing administrator.}} My understanding is that you get 500 words total for your statements, not 500 words per statement.</s> --] (]) 19:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
	:Striking given the extension request. --] (]) 20:58, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
	''Response to Prcc27:'' I understand the criteria at ] having Kennedy listed in the infobox, but I guess not for the other states. ] If so, can you clarify what you meant by {{tpq|but I think it seems more practical to just follow the lead of the national infobox criteria}} then? From my reading, it seems to support adding Kennedy to the other articles. --] (]) 10:52, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	==== Statement by SashiRolls ====
	I agree that the problem is not related to the topic area. I'm not sure I would agree that KlayCax is entirely harmless after having had to spend a lot of time cleaning up after them.
	KCx is known for edit summaries which hide the nature of their edits:
	*] -- While the edit summary is {{maroon|WP:MOS}}, ''in fact'' it introduces POV content not supported by the source supplied. Questioned about this, KCx later provided a link to the ''Deccan Herald'' on the TP, which also did not support the sweeping statement, though he wisely refrained from adding it to the entry after two people pointed out the claim he wanted to add ''to the first line of the lede'' was nonsense.
	*] -- {{ping|Drmies}} writes, "{{tq|your edit summary makes no sense in relation to the actual edit, and your response is to repeat the same irrelevant citation, this time with a quote which ''also'' totally doesn't make your point.}}" and four days later adds "{{tq|It's just one deflection after another}}" further suggesting bringing the problem up at ANI for disussion of a topic ban. ]
	KCx also seems to have trouble identifying reliable sources, beyond the ''Deccan Herald'' example cited above.
	*]: Adds back an opinion piece from ''The Spectator'' {{small|(Cf. its entry at ])}} as the second link in the lede of an entry, after it had been removed.
	*] adds the results of an '''online survey''' conducted on behalf of Skylight, "an initiative of the Radiance foundation". The source states: "Skylight’s mission is to use technology to help young people embrace God-centered spiritual habits.
	*] adds the same online survey to another top-level page, buried in an avalanche of text.
	*]: inserts the claim that <s>the</s> religion in the US is {{tq|the final "death nail" of the secularization hypothesis}} based on an article that argues that this claim is empirically false (without using the term "death nail" of course). When questioned on it, he says that it's a poor source (not for the claim, but in general).
	Finally, KCx has a habit of creating RfC & RM that are snow-closed against the position they were promoting: {{small|Cf. ] and ]}} and insists on long discussions about RfCs past they disagree with (see the context of the 26 February 2024 diff above).
	I grant some of these diffs are a bit dated, but a pattern is clearly visible over the past year...-- ] <sup>] · ]</sup> 17:52, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
	:12 June: The source KCx added didn't support their claim that the RN was one of two major political parties in France in any way. The ''Deccan Herald'' article found later is talking about one election. {{small|For context, the RN has out of 348 senators (<1%).}}
	:21 April: the second line of the lede says "Remini... states" something. KCx's "marginally reliable" source does not mention Remini even once. -- ] <sup>] · ]</sup> 16:18, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
	:::{{tq|% of KCx's edits to mainspace reverted}}: -- ] <sup>] · ]</sup> 22:07, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	==== Statement by XavierGreen ====
	The RFC stated that any candidate who "generally has 5% in poll aggregators" and ballot access to 270 electoral college votes should be included. Myself and other editors have shown proof that he has met the RFC consensus. There are a number of editors who are vociferously commenting on the talk page making arguments that are directly contrary to the RFC.] (]) 21:16, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	:I would like to note to the admins reviewing this that those stating that KlayCax was editing against consensus should note that a massive dispute has now erupted in on the 2024 United States presidential election talk page and edit warring against the same RFC consensus that KlayCax was accused here of editing against.] (]) 17:30, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	==== Statement by Dan Murphy ====
	I don't think the xaviergreen account should be making contributions in the uninvolved administrators area.] (]) 01:13, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
	==== Statement by Scorpions1325 ====
	I do not have much experience with this editor. I only just now found out that they were referred to this venue. My only substantial interactions with this editor came in the history of ] last year. I don't quite remember everything that happened, but I noticed that they insisted on adding ] and unsourced content to the lede of the article. They also had no respect for ]. From what I have observed, this editor is disruptive in many of the areas they edit in, particularly the ]. ] (]) 21:00, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
	===Result concerning KlayCax===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''		:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
	*Please keep the word limits in mind and only comment in your own sections. ] (]) 23:51, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
	*:Well, I'm not terribly impressed with the response to frequent warnings and blocks for edit warring being badgering and bludgeoning. This seems to be their general behavior whenever there is disagreement rather than isolated to one article or topic. ] (]) 13:40, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
	*:{{u|KlayCax}}, I suggest you condense down what you have already. I can tell you I don't find {{tq|Marxian/Marxist economists see capitalism as being inherently tied to class conflict (albeit this can be repressed in their views through false consciousness) and subsequent exploitation. Many American conservatives do use it as an insult against those who hold left-wing economic positions. This is however clearly not what my edits were. It is an uncontroversial and demonstrable fact that Donald J. Harris is considered an economist in the post-Keynesian and Marxian schools of thought. His primary influences are Adam Smith, David Ricardo, and Karl Marx, he's been described as a post-Keynesian and Marxian economist by multiple sources, and it's not POV-pushing to mention it in the article. It certainly does not "fail verification" and I can provide over a dozen sources on the matter. Furthermore, you left out that I also added at the same time a statement that, which undercuts the idea that Donald J. Harris influenced Kamala to any significant extent. (Donald J. Harris and Kamala Harris are notoriously not close and differ widely on politics.) The diff of the edit can be seen here. Are you under the assumption that Marxists are fans of the Democratic Party? No, of course not.}}{{sup|{{small|194 words, or 2/5 of the word limit}}}} particularly useful. ] (]) 18:40, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
	*:No other admins have any input? ] (]) 15:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	*Two things:
	*#{{yo|Prcc27}} Can you explain why this was filed one week after the most recent edit that you've placed in the diff list?
	*#{{yo|KlayCax}} If you would like an extension, please request one at ]. But otherwise, please condense down the comment a bit.
	:— ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 02:49, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
	::They ] on my talk page, and I told them to try and keep it under 1000 words. ] (]) 14:58, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
	:::I had missed that. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 18:08, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
	::{{yo|KlayCax}} You're still over the word limit extension by ~500 words. Please condense it, or hat intricate details. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 10:35, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
	:::{{u|Red-tailed hawk}}, have you had a chance to look this over yet? With their history of edit warring, and moving on to this IDHT/bludgeoning I'm thinking six month topic ban from the 2024 American presidential election might be the ticket. ] (]) 11:34, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
	::::I have taken my chance to fully read through all the diffs yet, no. I don't think I will in the next 24 hours, either, so please do not wait on me if you have already found some narrowly tailored approach here that you believe will work. — <span style="background: linear-gradient(#990000,#660000)">]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub></span> 13:02, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
	:::::I'm still up in the air between a narrow topic ban here, or something broader. Considering the issues with edit warring that have led to multiple blocks and a final warning before an indef leading in to this recent behavior I'm not certain that a tightly tailored topic ban is sufficient. ] (]) 12:28, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	*I'm very concerned that the ] attitude seems to have carried over from previous cases where sanctions were levied. I feel an AP2 TBAN is needed, and - given that they seem to be raising issues of candidates in infoboxes that nobody else cares about on other pages as well - possibly an infobox TBAN as well, but at the moment I'm not able to find evidence that they are aware of the infobox DS/CT regime. ] (]) 00:22, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:I don't see an infobox notice, so AP2 topic ban and a logged warning on infobox editing? ] (]) 00:30, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{hab}}
			{{u|PerspicazHistorian}}, can you explain your understanding of ] and the ] rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring ''even if they aren't breaking 3RR''. ] (]) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
	==O.maximov==
	{{hat|{{user|O.maximov}} is warned against inserting content without appropriate sources in support in contravention of policies on ] and ]. ] (]) 17:59, 16 August 2024 (UTC)}}
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
	===Request concerning O.maximov===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Levivich}} 18:27, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
	; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|O.maximov}}<p>{{ds/log|O.maximov}}</p>
	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
	On Aug 3, O.maximov reinstated one of {{u|ABHammad}}'s edits. (ABHammad received a 0RR restriction at Jul 31 20:52, see ].)
	*] at ]
	**O.maximov changed {{tqq|were expelled by Jewish and then Israeli forces or fled}} to {{tqq|were expelled or fled due to various causes}} with the edit summary {{tqq|last consensual version of this before weight changes}}
	**However, this is not the "last consensual version." In this edit, O.maximov reinstated an edit by ] that introduced the {{tqq|various causes}} language, changing {{tqq|were expelled or made to flee, by paramilitaries and later its military, an expulsion known as the Nakba}} to {{tqq|were expelled or made to flee due to various causes}}. This edit was changed by {{u|Nableezy}} on ] to {{tqq|were expelled by Jewish and then Israeli forces or fled from the territory Israel would come to control.}}
	** There has been discussion about this line since May at ], and a pending RFC at ]
	** The "due to various causes" language is whitewashing via ] words, an example of ]. "Various causes" is a ] for debunked theories like "they left voluntarily" or "their leaders told them to leave," intended to distract from the ''actual'' cause, which is violence by the ].
	Other similar issues:
	* ] at ]
	** Changes {{tqq|Israel has established and continues to expand ]...}} to {{tqq|Israel has established ]}}, removing {{tqq|and continues to expand}}, with edit summary {{tqq|This can be trimmed without changing the meaning}}
	** Of course, it significantly changes the meaning, again whitewashing that settlement expansion continues to this day (e.g. : "Israel turbocharges West Bank settlement expansion with largest land grab in decades")
	* ] (combined diff) at ]
	** ], edit summary {{tqq|More on media}}
	*** removed that Israel is {{tqq|behind Qatar}}
	*** added positive content about Israel ({{tqq|Israeli media is diverse, reflecting the spectrum of Israeli audiences.}})
	*** added that Al Jazeera is Qatari
	** ], edit summary {{tqq|One time event, wp:bold}}
	*** removed negative content about Israel seizing journalists' equipment
	** ], edit summary {{tqq|reasoning}}
	*** added that Israeli officials accuse Qatari Al Jazeera of promoting antisemitism and terrorism
	* Tag-team edit warring at ]: ], ], ] - note these are such "blind reverts," that they even change "https" to "http", a sure sign that people are pressing the undo button without paying attention to what they're undoing
	* At ] in June-July (same "colonization" edit-war I've posted before that was the catalyst for ] filing; these are just the O.maximov/ABHammad edits): ] (]), ], ], ], ]
	* At ]: ], ] (], ])
	* At ] May 19-20
	**"Some" to "Numerous"
	*** ] - changing {{tqq|Some prominent pro-Israel figures have described the protests as antisemitic, ...}} to {{tqq|Numerous antisemitic incidents, characterized by hate speech, violence, and discriminatory behavior targeting Jewish students, were documented during the protests.}}
	*** ] - {{tqq|Allegations of antisemitic incidents were documented during the protests, ...}} back to {{tqq|Numerous ...}}
	** Removing see also link to ]: ], ]
	** ] removed content about violence by pro-Israeli protesters with edit summary {{tqq|One case is undue}}. However, they added (or expanded) content about single instances of violence by pro-Palestinian protesters on May 19 ] (literally begins the line with {{tqq|In one instance...}}), ], ], and ].
	**] - changes {{tqq|allegations}} to {{tqq|incidents}}
	**] - changes {{tqq|ethnic cleansing of Palestinians}} to {{tqq|displacement of Palestinians}}
	My first complaint was at ABHammad's talk page (O.maximov was pinged): ]. My second complaint was at ] in July, which I notified O.maximov about ]. My third complaint was at ] (O.maximov was pinged).
	Aside from the tag-team edit warring, the edit summaries are not accurate, and the edits push a pro-Israeli POV. ] (]) 18:27, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
	; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
	No previous sanctions AFAIK, but multiple user talk page threads: ], ], ], ], ], ]
	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	], ]
	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
	Re {{u|Vanamonde93}}'s question about talk page edits:
	* ] and the Nakba/"various causes" edit: ] discussion predates the account; no participation by O.max in the ] or ] discussions. O.max did vote in ] back in June, but otherwise no talk page comments about this issue (though there are talk page comments about other issues).
	* ] and the settlement expansion edit, or the Jul 24 media-related edits, I don't see any relevant discussion on the talk page by O.max or anyone else
	* ]: no talk page edits
	* ]: three talk page edits in July:
	*# ] - arguing for "re-" establishment, and "I will be adding this factual information shortly", which was followed by the Jul 3 edit diff'd above, which is just repeating the same edit that O.max previously made on June 11 (and ABHammad on June 10, July 2, and July 21, plus other editors on other dates)
	*# ] - Agreeing with {{u|916crdshn}} that there is no consensus for "colonization" and arguing WP:ONUS
	*# ] - calling for WP:AGF w/r/t 916crdshn (now CU blocked as compromised account)
	* ]: O.max voted in the RFC the day after making the revert ]; no other talk page posts
	* ]: no talk page edits
	Something else I noticed today. I initially skipped over these diffs because of the innocuous edit summaries, but on further look, at ] on Aug 1, O.max basically rewrote it to turn it into a conspiracy theory -- as in, the existence of an Israel lobby in the UK is a conspiracy theory: ], ], ]; there are more edits, but those three are indicative. Search the article (any revision) for "conspiracy" and note that the sources do not even come close to supporting this notion. It's a complete misrepresentation of sources and some of the most blatant POV-pushing I've seen, even in the context of the blatant POV-pushing I've been complaining about lately. ] (]) 16:30, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	:{{userlinks|PeleYoetz}} (]) has ] the "O.maximov Aug 3 edit 1" diff'd at the beginning of this report. This is their first edit to the article, no edits to the talk page. ] (]) 15:43, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	:@BK49: That book does not say that the Israeli lobby in the UK ''is'' a conspiracy theory, it gives examples of conspiracy theories ''involving'' the Israeli lobby in the UK, which doesn't mean that the lobby itself ''is'' a conspiracy theory, i.e., that the lobby doesn't actually exist. By analogy, there are lots of conspiracy theories involving ], that doesn't mean the Freemasonry ''is'' a conspiracy theory, or that they don't actually exist.
	:We would not tolerate someone changing the short description for the Freemasonry article to {{tqq|Alternatively a conspiracy theory or group of fraternal organizations}}, but that is what O.max did at the Israeli lobby article in ].
	:The ] article mentions conspiracy theories in the last lead paragraph, it does not mention conspiracy theories as the first thing in the lead sentence. But O.max changed the lead of the Israeli lobby article from ]: {{Tq2|The Israel lobby in the United Kingdom are individuals and groups seeking to influence the foreign policy of the United Kingdom in favour of bilateral ties with Israel, Zionism, Israel, or the policies of the Israeli government.}} to ]: {{tq2|The idea of an Israel lobby in the United Kingdom has been used to raise conspire theories regarding a "Jewish plot" to influence Britain are individuals and groups and alternativly refers to those seeking to influence the foreign policy of the United Kingdom in favour of bilateral ties with Israel, Zionism, Israel, or the policies of the Israeli government.}} These edits are, if not POV-pushing, at least a serious misapplication of ]. ] (]) 22:00, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	::@BK: I agree that "The idea of an Israel lobby in the United Kingdom has been used to raise conspire theories" is not, in and of itself, a conduct problem. And if that was all there was, I wouldn't have brought it up. But when you put that change -- putting the "been used to raise conspiracy theories" right up front -- together with ] ("Alternatively a conspiracy theory or "), and then the comment here in this AE ("Many sources use the word conspiracy also ... Others say Israel has a big and powerful lobby ... I wanted to show both sides ... The body had both ideas. I think there is an Israel lobby ... Sources also say that this can be exagerated into a conspiracy theory. Therefore, both need to be in lead."), this shows, I think quite clearly, that he thinks there are ''two'' views of the Israel lobby: (1) it's a conspiracy theory, it doesn't exist, and (2) it's a real thing that exists. That is not a content dispute, that is -- take your pick -- POV pushing to suggest that there ''isn't'' such a thing as an Israel lobby (that would be a moon-is-made-of-cheese level falsehood), a reading comprehension problem (because ''no'' source questions whether the Israel lobby exists, and ''no'' source says that its existence is, itself, a conspiracy theory), or a total lack of understanding of ] (because the fact that the lobby has been used to raise conspiracy theories is, by no means, the very first thing that should be said in the article, under any reasonable application of WP:DUE, even an incorrect, but reasonable, application would not arrive here).
	::So this isn't a good-faith content dispute, it's either POV pushing or CIR, both are conduct problems. The end result is that they changed the article to question whether the Israel lobby actually exists -- that's a major problem, in my view. It's disinformation, not just misinformation. It's an attempt to cover up the very existence of the Israel lobby, to cast doubt on it. If it comes from a genuine belief that maybe the lobby isn't real, it's CIR; otherwise, it's POV-pushing.
	::Combine that with the other edits, and I think it's pretty clear. Look at my examples, from the top, they are:
	::* Aug 3: changing the text from the Nakba was caused by Israel to the Nakba was caused by "various causes"
	::* Aug 3: removing content about Israel and media that makes Israel look bad or second to an Arab country, while adding content that makes the Arab media look bad instead
	::* Jul 24: eliminating content that says Israel ''continues'' to expand settlements
	::* Jun 24: a bunch of changes, but including changing "expelled or fled" to "fled or expelled," removing a line about Palestinian right to resist; adding attribution of Palestinian justifications to ] (a particularly controversial figure, but by far not the only person who has said what is attributed to him), while expanding Israeli justifications in wikivoice
	::* Jun 11 and Jul 3: removing "colonization" from the lead of Zionism
	::* removing mention of Israel of the indigenous genocides article
	::* on the campus protest article, changing "some" to "numerous," and removing violence by pro-Israelis but adding violence by pro-Palestinians
	::* Recasting the Israeli lobby in the UK article to say it's maybe a conspiracy theory, and doubling down on that interpretation at AE
	::Anybody got an example of O.max making a pro-Palestinian edit? I suppose YMMV but it's pretty clear to me. ] (]) 17:19, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ]
	===Discussion concerning O.maximov===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	====Statement by O.maximov====
	Levivich, I respect different thinking. You must respect that I think differently. If your purpose is for me to say that Palestinians fled or were expelled then there is no problem. I have no problem saying this and other stuff. It is a problem that you post on my page just a link and expect me to press the link. It is a problem that first thing I get from Nableezy is that he asked me if I have prior accounts. The answer is no. I don't know why you behave like this. You have a problem with a person, you speak to the person. I invite you to my talk page to discuss things. I saw Levivich posted stuff on 1RR. Bro, you are a senior editor. You know it's not 1RR. I also did my best to kindly explain to Unbandito who posted it why it's not a 1RR violation. All the warnings you posted are really unrelated. Nableezy asks me if I have another account. I told him - no. Here someone says I edited against consensus, I say - look at the page! You see many people are saying different things! You posted a message I got because I was not writing encyclopedically on Economics, I understood and improved my writing. But Levivich, why don't you post on my talk page and explain? Nableezy can you explain which edit I did is against consensus and which consensus (You posted discussions)? I have no problem talking, look at all my talking in Israel and in other articles. I have no problem to talk. If you wish to collaborate as I do, you should treat others with respect, and this does not help to improve the temperature. ] (]) 10:54, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	: {{ping|Vanamonde93}} the Israel lobby is viewed by some as a conspiracy to say there is a Jewish plot to control the UK, the British media… Many sources use the word conspiracy also:
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	: Others say Israel has a big and powerful lobby that influences UK politics like other countries which other sources indicate. The body had a big problem of synth and no sources to back stuff. I fixed it (it is back to the same because of the rv). The body said many things and the lead didn’t. I wanted to show both sides. It’s also what I edited in the short description. If the page is only supposed to show the real lobby I am sorry, I thought it was neutral to show both sides. ] (]) 10:20, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
	::], ], ]
	::The article talks also about British Politics, MPs and their remarks in the body. , , , , , , , The article also talks about Jewish community being scared of what some say is a conspiracy theory. . Here sources talk about Israel/Zionist lobby as exaggerated as a conspiracy theory. ,
	:: the {{tqq|“The Power of the Zionist Lobby” subsection under the “United Kingdom” section as well as the sentence on “engaging in conspiracies about Israel’s power that draw on anti-Semitic tropes”.}},
	:: , page 1,7,8
	:: talks directly about Israel lobby being used as a conspiracy and explains why,
	:: {{tqq|“Conspiracist antisemitism is found across the political spectrum. For every left-winger who believes there is a well-funded Zionist lobby inventing fake smears of antisemitism to prevent a socialist government, you will find a comparable right-winger who holds George Soros responsible for immigration”.}} ,
	:: , page 110 - 112, all relevant, specific sentence also relevant {{tqq| “The conspiracist element of ‘new antisemitism’ is most obvious in discussions about the existence and the machinations of what has become known as the Israel/Zionist/Jewish lobby. A common assumption of left-wing anti-Zionist critique is that Israel commits its fiendish acts with the unwavering political, military and financial support from America and to a lesser extent Britain, whose governments are in the grip of the menacing and all powerful pro-Israel lobby”.}} , {{tqq| “A more recent example of how such ideas can appear in mainstream media coverage of Jews, Zionism and Israel was found in the 2009 dispatches documentary by the British journalist Peter Oborne, entitled “Inside Britain’s Israel Lobby” … This misses the point that using such a framework to explain Jewish or Zionist political activism relies, however unwittingly, on ideas and common understandings drawn from preexisting antisemitic conspiracy theories in order to make sense to its audience. At the very least, it was inevitable that antisemites would, and did, interpret it as an endorsement of their own conspiracy theories about Jews”.}} , , pg 60, 65,66, page 31 to 32 from “Within Labour” to “modern Labour politics” {{tqq|“Labour MPs were found to have used “anti-Semitic tropes and suggesting that the complaints of anti-Semitism were fakes or smears.” A case cited in the report involved former London Mayor Ken Livingstone, who said “the Israel Lobby,” which aimed “to undermine Corbyn’s leadership,” was responsible for allegations of anti-Semitism against fellow Labour MP Naz Shah. Livingstone later resigned from the party. The EHRC found a further 18 “borderline cases” involving local councillors, election candidates, and branch officials. It also noted several incidents of political interference by the Leader of the Opposition’s Office in addressing complaints of anti-Semitism. ”}}. My mistake was not to attribute to Haaretz in the lead. I am sorry about it. I know about WP:NOR and WP:V but I thought that it was established enough without written attribution in the lead. ] (]) 17:14, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	:::No ], my opinion is irrelevant. Like ] said, the body existed before. The body had both ideas. I think there is an Israel lobby, just like every country has a lobby. Sources also say that this can be exagerated into a conspiracy theory. Therefore, both need to be in lead. That is why the body and the page before me, speaks of both Groups and individuals who seek to influence policy and alternatively a conspiracy theory. That is what sources say and that is what I wrote. ] (]) 19:01, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	::::]
	::::There exists groups and individuals who want to advance Israeli interests in the UK, they are called by some the Israel Lobby.
	::::My description is: The Israel lobby is a term used to refer to groups or individuals who advance Israeli interests in the UK or alternatively to a conspiracy theory that exagerates Israeli/Zionist influence in the UK.
	::::I am open to other ideas. ] (]) 06:45, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	:::::] Yes I am taking this seriously. Thank you for the understanding. ] (]) 11:05, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Nableezy====
	We had a previous consensus on this material and edit warring without a new one should result in sanctions for disruptive editing. Full stop. ''']''' - 19:04, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
	:@] ] ''']''' - 12:12, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
	:]. ''']''' - 13:16, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
	:Also I wouldn't call the bit on violence in protests ''some fairly straightforward partisan editing'', that is blatantly tendentious. Either you think a single instance does not belong or you think it does, but O.maximov apparently changes what they think based on whose violence is being discussed. Violence by pro-Israeli protestors, oh dear not we cant have that, violence by pro-Palestinian protestors must be included and expanded. That is, to my mind, textbook tendentious editing. The bit on the seizure of the AP equipment, an event that resulted in the US demanding its return and was covered extremely widely, is likewise textbook tendentious editing. Same for ] with its easter egg wikilinks and the fact that the source it cites for supposed reasoning leads with "The government will not make public the details of position papers submitted by the security services saying that Al Jazeera has harmed Israeli security, following a cabinet decision on Monday to temporarily shut down the Qatari news network." They are not simply politely pushing a POV, which itself is banned. There are users that are not engaging in attempting to productively discuss content disputes with the aim of coming to some agreement or consensus on what to include, they are simply acting as roadblocks. This is one of them. ''']''' - 14:31, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
	Checkusers should be run on O.maximov and ABHammad.
	Regarding "It is a problem that first thing I get from Nableezy is that he asked me if I have prior accounts. The answer is no." From a purely technical perspective the question seems reasonable to me. When I look at the proximity of the O.maximov account to other accounts using a variety of different techniques, I would like to understand why the closest matches are to blocked accounts with a single master, and , for example. Perhaps these are false positives, but if they are not, this AE report is a waste of time and sanctions will have no impact. ] (]) 12:53, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	Regarding "I find the calls for CU as unconvincing...". A reason to conduct a CU is that the amount of work required to process the AE report, and the effectiveness of potential sanctions are dependent on the result of a CU. It's about efficiency and the optimal ordering of actions. If an account is found to be a disposable sockpuppet account, there is no need to spend time evaluating their editing or imposing sanctions. Assuming good faith is not the optimal approach in all cases. Other approaches can have more utility. I would argue, like FortunateSons, that it should be standard practice for AE reports once the report has been accepted as worth spending time on. The potential costs associated certain actions, like edit warring, are different for socks and non-socks. So, the likelihoods of the behavior are different. Willingness to edit war is itself an indictor that an account may be a sock because the cost of sanctions to them are zero. ] (]) 05:46, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by ABHammad====
	This is the second time this month I have seen Levivich doing what seems like a weaponization of this noticeboard against editors who do not share their point of view based on their politics (and they are unsuprisingly joined by others). Previously, they accused me and other editors of tag teaming—a very serious allegation—without providing substantial evidence. While I received a 0RR sanction (rightfully), their tag teaming allegations were dismissed. Going over the new allegations, I don't see anything close to a sanctionable violation of anything. It's all content disputes that can and should be solved through discussions. But, I don't see any attempt by Levivich to do so, nor did they even try to discuss the issues with O.maximov personally. And the above claims about 'previous consensus on this material' are clearly false (if anything is happening on ARBPIA right now is forced controversial changes that take place without any attempt to achieve consensus). I think it might be time to consider sanctions of the ] sort. ] (]) 12:30, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by FortunateSons====
	I think the suggestion of a CU is reasonable, and really should be standard practice in any topic area as a contentious as this one once there is reasonable suspicion.
	Having said that, I’m not seeing conduct that goes beyond the ‘standard’ biased editing, with decent talk page engagement and no “horrible” conduct. While I’m not inherently opposed to banning for such conduct, a ban for that might catch some of our more experienced editors too, and despite some people’s well-reasoned objections, I don’t think banning most frequent contributors and starting fresh is likely to do us any good. As such, biased editors (and this seems to be closer to bias than ‘true’ partisanship) are the unavoidable norm.
	Regarding the filer, while I wouldn’t say that we are at a boomerang yet, they should be mindful about weaponising AE; considering the past talk page discussion, a sockpuppet investigation would have been the more productive avenue for this. ] (]) 16:48, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by fiveby====
	{{u|Levivich}}, take a look at the for the version prior. It has ]'s "cabal of Jewish advisers", ]'s "financial grips", and ]' "enjoyed wallowing in her own filth" to start. I don't think you can claim that the article is merely concerned with the ''existence'' of an Israel lobby. O.max did not write that section, "the existence of an Israel lobby in the UK is a conspiracy theory" is your framing and near as i can tell ], and if not limited to 'existence' or UK there are a number of sources which will use the words "conspiracy theory".
	{{u|Vanamonde93}}, {{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}} what exactly is so ''extremely concerning'' about ], or the other two&mdash;no doubt bad edits to a bad article&mdash;which call for a TBAN for those alone? ](]) 07:42, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
	](]) 07:42, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
	:{{u|Barkeep49}} The best source here is probably ]'s ''The Arc of a Covenant'', but it's really mostly discussed in relation to U.S. and Walt and Mearsheimer work. In my opinion those are bad edits, that politics section should probably be dialed back on the conspiracy POV, it's just the hyperbole here is unwarranted. Thanks for looking. ](]) 21:47, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by xDanielx====
	The accusations of whitewashing, dogwhistles, or Nakba denial based on {{tq|various causes}} are a stretch. Similar language remains on the current ] page: {{tq|various reasons}} and {{tq|numerous factors}}. We also have a whole page examining the various causes of the exodus: ]. There's a consensus among scholars (today) that expulsions occurred, but not about the significance of other causes. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 05:32, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	===Result concerning O.maximov===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->		<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
			:@], that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is ''the first time'' someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
	*{{u|Nableezy}}, which material are you talking about? The Nakba in the lead of Israel?{{pb}}I'm seeing some fairly straightforward partisan editing, but not anything severely out of the norm in the topic. Although that is a bit concerning, I'm more interested in where their editing has violated established consensus. ] (]) 11:55, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
			:<small>Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is ]; in their ] NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here.</small> ] (]) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
	*:I agree with Vanamonde93 about those most recent diffs. ] (]) 22:26, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::{{u|Fiveby}}, unilaterally changing the topic of an article from lobbying efforts by a country in another country to {{tq|a conspiracy theory or groups and individuals seeking to influence UK foreign policy}}. ] (]) 11:36, 7 August 2024 (UTC)		::I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? ] (]) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::@], have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. ] (]) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
	*I'm still parsing some of this; to me the distinction between tendentiousness partisanship is at least partly determined by whether the user is justifying edits on the talk page and/or otherwise engaging in discussion; I'm less happy with reverts or substantive changes in the absence of consensus without accompanying ''substantive'' talk page engagement. ] (]) 15:42, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
			::::I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. ] (]) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
	*:I am still struggling to wade through the morass of talk page discussions. But Levivich's recent diffs are extremely concerning, these two in particular: , . I would consider a TBAN for those edits alone. ] (]) 22:10, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
			:::::@], like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God |url=https://www.ganeshaspeaks.com/predictions/astrology/prasad-food-for-god/ |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=GaneshaSpeaks |language=en-GB}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=What Is Prashad |url=https://www.swaminarayan.faith/articles/what-is-prashad |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj |language=en}}</ref> The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit ''yesterday'', after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
	*::A unilateral POV change would be concerning, per SFR, but to me it's more than that; it's a unilateral change to the lead and framing, without supporting sources and without an equally substantive change to the body. The statement justifying it here at AE is bordering on a competence issue. (the 9th O.maximov provided, the first I clicked on) speaks of a single British MP, who claimed Tony Blair was being influenced by a coterie of Jewish advisors, and who was roundly criticized for saying so. It has no bearing at all on the claim that the Israeli lobby is a conspiracy theory, or otherwise; because there is no substantive analysis of the phenomenon in the source at all. I have no opinion on the existence or otherwise of an Israeli lobby; but if someone writes that it is a conspiracy theory, I expect that claim to be backed up by multiple heavyweight sources explicitly supporting that. O.maximov needs to show they can comply with ] and ] before they are allowed to mess around in a contentious topic. ] (]) 15:38, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
			:::::The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. ] (]) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
	*:::Your errors go a lot further than that, O. maximov. There is a profound difference between "Criticisms of UK policy toward Israel have veered into anti-semitic conspiracy theories" (which your sources support) and "The claim that an Israeli lobby exists in the UK is a conspiracy theory", which is effectively what you wrote. You appear to be unable to separate that nuance, which to me shows you have gotten too close to the material you're trying to edit. Further argument here isn't going to fix that; you need to show that you can edit within the bounds of policy, outside the CTOP. ] (]) 17:39, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
			*A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. ] &#124; ] 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
	*::::I haven't investigated this, but presuming what Vanamonde writes is true (and I do) conflating {{tq|anti-semetic conspiracy theories}} and {{tqq|Israeli lobby is a conspiracy theory}} is more than just a failed nuance. It is, in my mind, POVPUSHING. ] (]) 17:43, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
			*:{{u|Vanamonde93}}, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we ''are'' in CIR territory; just look at PH's ] for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. ] &#124; ] 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
	*::::So I have now examined many (but not all) of the sources presented. I do find there to be support to the idea of the Israel Lobby being called a conspiracy in the UK. I think this is most clearly seen on p.10 of . Not all the sources I looked at make the grade, but enough of them do that I feel more comfortable saying that we're in content, rather than conduct, territory with that particular piece. ] (]) 21:23, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
			*Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? ] (]) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
	*:::::Re: Levivich (cc fiveby): I agree with {{tqq|That book does not say that the Israeli lobby in the UK is a conspiracy theory, it gives examples of conspiracy theories involving the Israeli lobby in the UK, which doesn't mean that the lobby itself is a conspiracy theory}} and your subsequent freemason comparison is a good one. But in the diff you then cite it says {{tqq|The ''idea of an Israel lobby'' in the United Kingdom '''has been used''' to raise conspire theories}} (emphasis added). I think you're focused on the italics part where as I think the bolded part is drawing that distinction - though the italics part would need to be reworded to avoid the problem you're seeing. I'm not sure this line should be in there at all, but all of this strikes me as with-in the bounds of a content discussion. Someone can be wrong/out of consensus on content in a contentious topic, even with regularity, and not, for me, cross the line into a conduct problem. To return to the first comment I made in this thread (below as it so happens), I AGF that a non-native English speaker can imperfectly walk the line of "There are conspiracies about the Israel Lobby in the UK" versus "The idea that there is an Israel Lobby is a conspiracy theory". I would expect, however, O.maximov to be a lot more careful about this distinction going forward. ] (]) 15:28, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
			*:I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. ] (] • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
	*::::::{{re|Barkeep49}} My concern with this isn't with the content in sources dug up post-facto: whether or not an alternative description of the Israeli lobby exists in one or more of those sources is, I agree, a content matter outside our jurisdiction. My problem is that O. maximov introduced that framing into the article without any supporting source material, and then when confronted with this, produced a lot of sources that do not support his thesis either. It doesn't matter to me that one or more of the sources partially verify the thesis; the fact remains he claimed a lot of others did, when they did not. If the matter was solely a failure of attribution he should have been able to produce substantive sourcing; instead what he's produced looks very much like a list of sources talking about broader Jewish concern about people in government mentioning anti-semitic conspiracy theories. I am willing to allow that perhaps there wasn't a problem of intent here, but if that's the case then there was a problem of competence. Either way, to me a sanction is indicated. ] (]) 04:21, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
			*It looks to me like there is a consensus for an indefinite partial block for PerspicazHistorian from article space. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within a day or so, I will close as such. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
	*Not sure when/if I will have time to look into the merits of the complaint here as it seems like a lot of background reading is required. However, I know enough to say that I find the calls for CU as unconvincing as I do the call for a boomerang on BM. ] matters just as much, if not more, in contentious topics. ] (]) 15:26, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:@] does the Israel Lobby exist? Whether or not it does what would your description of it be? ] (]) 17:39, 9 August 2024 (UTC)		*:Given PH's recent slew of requests on multiple admin talk pages, yes, please do. - ] ] 12:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
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	*{{ping|ScottishFinnishRadish|Barkeep49}} It does not look to me as though we are getting more input here, and discussion has died down somewhat. If I am reading correctly, SFR and I are in support of a TBAN (by default, an ARBIPA TBAN); BK49 is hesitant. BK49, if my final argument above does not persuade you, is there a lesser option we can come to agreement on? Or are you opposed to a sanction altogether? I hesitate to impose something on a 2:1 margin. ] (]) 16:33, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
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	*:I'm willing to assume a touch of good faith that they were making a good faith attempt to summarize some of the conspiracy theory material in the article, so I'm also comfortable with a lesser sanction or just a warning. Most of the diffs I view in the same way I'm discussing down in ]. ] (]) 16:49, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::What would you propose? ] (]) 17:44, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::Oh geez, who knows? There's really nothing between warning and topic ban for battleground/sourcing issues, so a severe finger wagging not to do that again and be careful in the future is about all we can do if not topic banning. ] (]) 18:05, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::::I'd be much more amenable to a logged warning if {{U|O.maximov}} is willing to acknowledge that those edits were not compliant with ] and ]. At the moment I'm seeing no acknowledgement that they've done anything wrong. ] (]) 18:39, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:I did rethink things after yours and Levivich's comments, which is why I asked the question above . I find O.maximov's answer good enough, though not excellent, and so I think I'd be opposed to anything harsher than a logged warning. ] (]) 20:14, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::In the interest of putting this to bed I will support a logged warning, but I will note for the record that without a sharper sanction I believe issues will recur. ] (]) 22:07, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::@] I hope you take this warning seriously; it would not take much for me to support a topic ban should you repeat some of the mistakes that led to the filing of this thread. ] (]) 01:05, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{hab}}
			{{reflist talk}}
	==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Astropulse==
	{{hat|{{user|Astropulse}}'s appeal of the ] from ] that was imposed by {{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}} is declined. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 02:10, 12 August 2024 (UTC)}}
	<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small>
	<small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections{{space}}but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small>
	; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Astropulse}} – ] (]) 21:20, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
	; Sanction being appealed : 7 day block on article Hammas
	https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Astropulse
	; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|ScottishFinnishRadish}}
	; Notification of that administrator : https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:ScottishFinnishRadish#appealing
	===Statement by Astropulse===
	a) this was my first possible violation of 1RR - instead of a 24hrs block, a 7 day block was placed - which i think is undue.
	b) there were never a disruption to Misplaced Pages. After a possible minor violation of 1RR, Most of my changes still stand on the page. Some of it were improved upon.
	c) i believe the offending edit i reverted itself is violation of 1RR. This is because another editor reverted several of my edits in one edit. According to ] "A series of consecutively saved reverting edits by one user, with no intervening edits by another user, counts as one revert." In this case, there were intervening edits by another user. The edit i reverted also violated ] , ] and ], also ]
	d) I was asked to revert my changes, but I refused because doing so would have introduced NPOV issues into the article. Several days have passed, and no one else has reverted my changes, as they are beneficial and have gained growing consensus on the talk page.
	e) editor who accused me of 1RR violation - is not a involved editor. I have settled the differences with involved editor and everything is resolved. And hence a block at this point is undue. it is a punishment, rather than a genuine attempt to prevent damage or disruption to Misplaced Pages. This violates wiki blocking policy https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Blocking_policy
	f) I'm not convinced i violated 1RR -> I removed a tag on the page ] -> this was being counted as a revert. But i think it is just a edit because that tag was not needed anymore. No one re-added the tag - after i removed it. I dont know what is the problem. The only revert was this ] because another editor reverted two people edits here ] which itself i believe is a violation of 1RR
	] (]) 21:20, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
	:@] first and third edit you quoted aren't reverts. these are changes to long standing lead. if you are calling it as revert, most change's on wiki will be a revert. As per ] im entitled to make than change. second is questionable. i have good reasons to do it. No one added it back after i removed it. So there is no conflict or disagreement on that one. ] (]) 16:06, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	::@] @] @]
	::] recommends a 24hr block for first time offenders. You also have to look at if there was disruption to wiki. I dont think there was. Like i said many times. Most of my changes still stand to this day. No one has reverted it fully. You are all punishing me for attempting to edit on good faith. I think this is against ]
	::I still think this block is punitive instead of preventative https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Blocking_policy#Purpose_and_goals
	::If there was disruption, a block might be okay for Deterrence.
	::It also article says "For eg. Deterrence is based upon the likelihood of repetition. For example, though it might have been justifiable to block an editor a short time ago, such a block may no longer be justifiable right now, particularly if the actions have since ceased or the conduct issues have been resolved."
	::I think, Refusal to revert is not indication of likelihood of repetition in this case.
	::I already said many times - issue were resolved by the time i was asked to revert and there were growing consensus on the article talk page. Editor who i reverted said, they are fine to remove the NPOV tag after the recent changes. I also think you have to balance your actions with other policies. ] ] ]
	::] says "Blocks should not be used solely for the purpose of recording warnings or other negative events in a user's block log. The practice, typically involving very short blocks, is often seen as punitive and humiliating." ] (]) 05:35, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	:::cc @] ] (]) 05:37, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	::::@] two admins have indicated they wouldn't have put a p block - but warning instead. Why is it that you still wish to decline the appeal ? ] (]) 05:40, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	:::::@] You said "but I don't like what it said before I changed it" - This was never my defense. Its something you are making it up. You decided to place a 7 day block - after i owned up to my mistake and explaining all the context. (Everyone can read my last reply in original enforcement request.)
	:::::You are now claiming that the some text i removed as per ] which was written weeks or months ago is a revert. I didn't even know this is the case. ] (]) 06:06, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	===Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish===
	Their appeal demonstrates that they still don't understand what a revert is, and that they believe their own view of NPOV exempts them from 1RR. Everyone believes their edit is the neutral one, which is why it is not an exemption as listed in ]. This lack of understanding leads me to believe we're going to be back here fairly soon. ] (]) 12:51, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	:{{u|Red-tailed hawk}}, , , and .
	:{{u|Newyorkbrad}}, a warning is fine if they remedy their violation, which is how I normally handle this. When there is a refusal to remedy a blatant violation and the behavior is confined to a single areticle I generally start with a one week pblock, which you can see ]. ] (]) 14:47, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	:Additionally, {{tq|I am sensitive to the position of someone who would otherwise be willing to self-revert an isolated 1RR violation, but does not want to be associated with an edit in their name that they feel would reintroduce bias or misinformation into the contentious article.}} That is what almost every edit war in the topic area is about. One side thinks NPOV is violated, and the other feels it is violated if the prose is changed. That is why "but I don't like what it said before I changed it" isn't an acceptable edit warring defense. ] (]) 14:55, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	===Statement by (involved editor 1)===
	===Statement by (involved editor 2)===
	===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by AstroPulse ===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	====Statement by The Kip====
	Just my 2 cents as a frequent AE observer - the most recent response is, at least to me, beginning to give off the impression that the user is simply ] at this point. ] ] <span style="color:#C8102E;"><small><sup>(])</sup></small></span> 08:07, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)====
	===Result of the appeal by Astropulse===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the contentious topics log below where their sanctions is logged. -->
	*{{yo|ScottishFinnishRadish}} For posterity's sake, can you link to the diffs that violated the 1RR? — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 14:20, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	**{{ping|Red-tailed hawk}} The offending diff and the context are given in the original enforcement thread. ] (]) 14:28, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:Thank you for that. I do see a clear violation of ] there. The user was that this is a contentious topics area. This looks like an extremely ordinary case, where a warning or reminder would have been sufficient had the appellant self-reverted after being asked, but the appellant refused to do so.
	*:Restrictions like ] require editors to ], as there is no technical mechanism to enforce them directly. As such, they require an editor to acknowledge them and ''choose'' to abide by them, even if this does not generate a content outcome that they desire. If they do not choose to abide by these restrictions, such as by blowing through 1RR and ''also'' refusing to self-revert, then that justifies the use of more restrictive measures (such as partial blocks). A partial block of one week is reasonable in this circumstance (though one of 72 hours probably would have been equally so).
	*:As such, I think that the sanction is reasonable in light of the appellant's refusal to abide by 1RR, and I would '''decline''' this appeal. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 15:02, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	*I am sensitive to the position of someone who would otherwise be willing to self-revert an isolated 1RR violation, but does not want to be associated with an edit in their name that they feel would reintroduce bias or misinformation into the contentious article. If this is indeed a "first offense," I would probably have warned rather than p-blocked, and certainly would not have p-blocked for a full week. A block (of any reasonable length) from just a single article is not a severe sanction in and of itself, but it can have a stigmatizing effect and will also be invoked if this user's comes to be scrutinized again. In short, I am somewhat troubled, but I am not sure my disagreement rises to the level of !voting to overturn the sanction. Looking forward to other admins' thoughts. ] (]) 14:40, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:I also don't think I'd have p blocked in this instance. However, I think it was with-in the range of admin discretion given the facts in play here - if at the very upper end. As such I don't think the ] has been met and so I also am in favor of declining this appeal. ] (]) 15:19, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
	*Perhaps a shorter p-block could have done the job, but before p-blocks were rolled out a site-wide block would have been considered quite normal for a 1RR violation. This is far from the most severe block we could have handed out. And loath as I am to disagree with {{U|Newyorkbrad}}, I agree with SFR's assessment above; every single edit-war in this topic has participants who believe they are the ones correcting an egregious NPOV violation. That is not, in my view, reasonable grounds for leniency. ] (]) 15:30, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	** My point was not that an editor's strong belief in the correctness of their edit is ground for an extra revert. It is that such a belief can sometimes explain what might otherwise seem to be a pig-headed refusal to self-revert an identified violation, which would put ''their own name'' on the content they strongly disagree with. Here, the editor's declining to self-revert seems to have made the sole difference between a warning and a weeklong p-block. I understand the value of offering an opportunity to self-revert as an alternative to blocking immediately, but especially given that the offense seem isolated and has not been repeated, I remain somewhat troubled by this scenario. ] (]) 14:32, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	**:"I recognize what I did was wrong, will fix it, and make promises to not do it again" does suggest to me that the preventive need is less than for someone who refuses to make amends. In this case the editor refuses to even acknowledge that they violated 1RR and so I don't really get to weighing the legitimacy of the reasons they give for not wanting to revert. ] (]) 15:25, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	*Absent any substantial change among responses by admins here, I will be closing this in ~18 hours as declined. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 20:30, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:{{yo|Astropulse}} Merely on a bean count, we have multiple admins that have affirmatively said that they would not overturn this, including me and Barkeep49 ({{tq|I also am in favor of declining this appeal}}). For the other two: there's one who appears to be somewhat sympathetic to the appeal but expressed they were on the fence on whether or not to accept or deny the appeal (Newyorkbrad), and one who hasn't explicitly stated that they would accept or decline but seems to argue that they don't think that NYB's arguments are in any way mitigating and that they agree with the sanctioning admin in that regard (Vanamonde93). For sake of argument, even assuming that none of the arguments here are so strongly out-of-policy that the would be downgraded when looking at their ], I do not know how one would close this any other way; the ] for overturning an appeal is {{tq|a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE}} to accept an appeal and overturn a sanction, but we appear to have a rough consensus of administrators that lean towards affirming the partial block.
	*:Since there were comments from uninvolved admins today, I'll wait another 18 hours before closing this with the appeal not being accepted. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 18:51, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	*{{re|Astropulse}} I think the partial block is/was preventative because you don't acknowledge you violated 1RR. The 3RR guidance was written before partial blocks became possible and so likely needs ot be revised to reflect modern practice. Short blocks was referring to very short blocks - like minutes or hours - which were once a thing some admin did. While I wouldn't have chosen this particular sanction myself, I think it is one with-in admin discrestion for contentious topics. ] advises that {{tqq|When editing a contentious topic, Misplaced Pages's norms and policies are more strictly enforced}} and here we are. ] (]) 15:31, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{hab}}		{{hab}}
	==3E1I5S8B9RF7==		==LaylaCares==
	{{hat|{{user|3E1I5S8B9RF7}} is warned against violating ] in their talk page comments. ] (]) 18:00, 16 August 2024 (UTC)}}		{{hat|There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)}}
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>		<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
	===Request concerning 3E1I5S8B9RF7===		===Request concerning LaylaCares===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Levivich}} 18:37, 7 August 2024 (UTC)		; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Vice regent}} 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
	; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|3E1I5S8B9RF7}}<p>{{ds/log|3E1I5S8B9RF7}}</p>		; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|LaylaCares}}<p>{{ds/log|LaylaCares}}</p>
			<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]		;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
			<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :		; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
			<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
	]/]/], Round 1, at ]: "]" I collapsed and archived that thread.
			# EC gaming
	Round 2: "]" I also collapsed and archived that thread, posted a ], and started ] (what is the genocide death toll according to RS), with sources, without the FORUM/BLP/NOR violations.
			;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	Round 3, in the thread I started: ], ]; the second one is after the CTOP awareness alert.
	Across all 3 rounds, they brought exactly (in Round 2), and that source does not contain the words "Deif" or "genocide". Otherwise, no sources. 11 out of 12 of their most-recent (Aug 3-7) contribs are the above FORUM/BLP/NOR violations.
	In sum, 3E1 is persistently using this article talk page to discuss whether certain individuals/groups are innocent enough to be considered victims of genocide, without any real engagement with RS. This violates our FORUM/BLP/NOR policies.
	Note that there has recently been an increase in press coverage of this article (see the press template at the top of the article talk page for links), and with it an increase in disruption, and the talk page is currently ECP'd as a result. ] (]) 18:37, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
	; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any: No blocks or CTLOG entries, some warnings on the UTP
	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]): ]
	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :		; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
			Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
			; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
	@SFR/Van: Yes, it's the only one after the ARBPIA alert. There were previous alerts in other topic areas (see their UTP); I don't know if that counts as awareness under the new rules or not. I don't see this as "the first after a CTOP alert" so much as "the 11th in a row this week." The CTOP awareness alert is the reason this is at AE instead of ANI, but otherwise it's not terribly relevant in my view. CTOP awareness is a prerequisite for CTOP sanctions, but I don't think any CTOP sanctions are necessarily merited here. This doesn't rise to the level of a TBAN or anything that serious in my view; though disruptive, it's limited to one article, and I think this is the first complaint against an established editor. While they're not listening to me, they'll probably listen to admins. ] (]) 15:38, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
			<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	:I find 3E1's ] here {{tqq|Levivich's argument is that I need to provide sources that only civilians are victims of genocide; my argument is that sources currently only mention a total death toll of the ], but not a death toll of ] in itself}} and xDanielx's ] here {{tqq|Levivich's view is that the casualty figure is properly sourced, but this isn't entirely clear ... the available sources don't explicitly give a casualty figure for Gaza genocide}} to be very puzzling, considering ], the thread I started, begins with {{tqq|The sources used for the death toll in the article aren't all specifically about the Gaza genocide ...}} and ends with {{tqq|Here are some sources ...}} followed by quotes from 5 sources that give a death toll of the Gaza genocide itself. They're both raising the same talking point, but the entire purpose of the thread I started is to address that exact point. I don't understand how two editors both missed this? ] (]) 18:02, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	:Just got ], which speaks for itself. ] (]) 17:20, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
	:Re SFR: not sure why you picked those two particular quotes to compare and not others (you should be comparing the entirety of what both editors have written), but in any case, the first quote is about opinion and the second is about RS, which is why the first quote is a FORUM violation and the second isn't. ] (]) 13:07, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	::SFR: sure if it was a one time thing. I'm looking at their contribs and I see 16 out of the last 17 are this foruming. In three separate threads on the article talk page and in this AE and then back on the talk page even while this AE is going. Are we supposed to just let them continue like this forever, or at some point do they have to make reference to RS? ] (]) 13:45, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	::Surely "Levivich and Selfstudier exposed their utter bias and inability to remain neutral, objective and rational regarding this issue.", which is in the 16th edition, is not kosher? ] (]) 13:47, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ]
	===Discussion concerning 3E1I5S8B9RF7===		===Discussion concerning LaylaCares===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>		<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	====Statement by 3E1I5S8B9RF7====		====Statement by LaylaCares====
	My comments weren't a forum, they were relevant questions to the controversial decision in the ] to include all Hamas militants, regarded as a terrorist organization by several countries, as victims of genocide, regardless if they fell as armed fighters in a battle. I can understand if this was narrowed down to only civilian fatalities, but the current article warrants a detailed explanation. I just wanted to hear a rational explanation if this can be accepted and hear other users' thoughts. My "inconvenient" question still stands unanswered; can terrorists be considered victims of genocide?--] (]) 15:40, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	:So you do agree that my original question is reasonable here? How would you anwser this question then?
	:The purpose of the talk page is to discuss contentious issues of an article. If users cannot pose questions revealing contradictions of some articles, then Misplaced Pages should abolish talk pages. Levivich's argument is that I need to provide sources that only civilians are victims of genocide; my argument is that sources currently only mention a total death toll of the ], but not a death toll of ] in itself, a term which is not universally accepted yet.--] (]) 16:53, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	:::Logged warning for what, exactly? '''can and should''' be used to improve the article by pointing out the glaring contradiction (and fallacy) in it. Are Hamas militants who perpetrated the ], and who were later killed for it, victims of genocide? Are terrorists victims of a genocide? My crime is that I pose this question. And I think it should be posed for clarification. Feel free to answer it, or if this question is forbidden, then just say it.--] (]) 18:01, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Selfstudier ====
	I get that the reported editor has a beef with the article, having also . That's not a license to forum the talk page, repeatedly refusing to take the hint. Think this editor should maybe stay away from the page for a while. ] (]) 18:57, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
	:{{Re|xDanielx}} I'm glad that you mentioned BM intervention in the middle of this contretemps, two days before the diff you have posted, , any idea what on earth was the purpose of adding <nowiki>{{npov|Is Mohammed Deif a victim of genocide?}}</nowiki> other than to encourage the reported party in their talk page bludgeoning? How on earth is that a "content dispute"? Deif was not even mentioned in the article. ] (]) 15:34, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	:
	.{{Re|3E1I5S8B9RF7}} See . The simplest answer to your (and BM) pointy question. If the killings are because of who they are, rather than because of what they did, then they may be victims. That question will be answered in due course by the court. ] (]) 11:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
			====Statement by Aquillion====
	{{re|BilledMammal}} The difference being that both Buidhe and myself are providing sources aimed at improving the article. Your attempting to hat them is as well rather tedious, I must say. ] (]) 18:09, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
			Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be ]-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail ], since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --] (]) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
	:{{re|BilledMammal}} Since you neglected to notify Buidhe, I did it for you.] (]) 18:15, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
			===Statement by Dan Murphy===
	.] (]) 17:22, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
			Please look at ], written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.] (]) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
			====Statement by starship.paint====
	{{Re|ScottishFinnishRadish}} I am at a bit of a loss to understand the thinking here, this is just straight up soapboxing, including while we are still at the boards, I don't really understand why other editors are even bothering to reply to it.] (]) 13:51, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
			I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, . '''] (] / ])''' 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	====Statement by xDanielx====		====Statement by (username)====
	This isn't ] territory at all, since 3E1I5S8B9RF7 was raising concerns about content in an effort to improve it. Levivich closing the discussions as such seems inappropriate. It's also not ] to question whether sources are being interpreted or summarized correctly. One doesn't need new sources to question the application of the current ones. While ] applies to all namespaces, in practice its sourcing requirements are not enforced to the letter outside of article space.
	Levivich's view is that the casualty figure is properly sourced (''edit'': or rather that proper sources exist and can be added), but this isn't entirely clear. BilledMammal that it itself involves OR, since the available sources don't explicitly give a casualty figure for ]. Giving a casualty figure for the war, and then a separate statement that a genocide is occurring, is not the same thing; one can believe that a genocide is occurring without sharing the view that combatant deaths are part of that genocide.
	This seems like a normal content dispute, with no legitimate policy-based reason for closing the discussions or bringing it to AE. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 14:20, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	:{{yo|Levivich}} you provided five sources, but none of them actually provide a count of genocide victims, as BilledMammal pointed out on the talk page. A statement that X people were killed in a war, and a separate statement that a genocide is occurring, does not amount to a statement that X people were victims of a genocide. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 01:25, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	:{{yo|Sean.hoyland}} your argument seems to be that ] was violated, not ]. "Patently false" is not an argument, and it's hard to see how flagging a perceived issue in an article could be NOTFORUM territory.
	:Regarding NOR, the policy {{tq|does not apply to talk pages}}. At worst one could say that 3E1I5S8B9RF7 was suggesting a change which would have been OR had it been enacted. A NOR violation would require actually enacting the change.
	:It also seem impossible to keep any count of genocide victims without bending NOR, since we don't have any reliable sources providing an explicit count of genocide victims. If we're going to enforce NOR to the letter here, we'll have to remove the victim count. — ] <sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub>\<sup>]</sup> 01:37, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
	"This isn't WP:NOTFORUM territory at all"...patently false and not helpful at all in my view. Rewarding easily avoided ] violations is counterproductive in PIA and has a cost. Editors who try to convince people that they have figured out how Misplaced Pages should count victims of an alleged genocide based on a personal decision procedure that makes sense to them should not be taken seriously. It's bordering on a competence issue. Buried inside 3E1I5S8B9RF7's unhelpful musings and irrelevant personal opinions there is a simple and reasonable point about statistics that could easily have been expressed by "pointing to specific issues that are actionable within the content policies", the key word there being policies. No need to start fires to get attention. I fully support Levivich's entirely sensible actions. I'm sure 3E1I5S8B9RF7 is a perfectly decent editor, but no one needs to hear about how they think victim counting should work. ] (]) 16:07, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{u|XDanielx}},
	* I think it's possible to understand quite a lot of the things that happen in PIA, the rule breaking, the defense of rule breaking etc., if you assume that people sometimes use an approach that can be characterized as 'the ends justify the means', an after the fact rationalization of non-compliance. But the ends don't justify the means. There's just a set of policies and guidelines that everyone has to follow.
	* In this case, it seems crystal clear (to me at least) that the editor made statements that are inconsistent with talk page guidelines. There are numerous examples in that discussion where they try to get editors to discuss who can be counted as a victim and who can't etc. In general, in Misplaced Pages, I don't think this really matters much, but in PIA, I think it matters because there are very few knobs we can turn to try to improve the dynamics of the topic area. Strictly enforcing compliance in discussions is one of them.
	* Let's assume everyone in that discussion agreed with the editor's proposed counting method. If you ask, 'Is that consensus consistent with policy?', the answer is no. So, that already tells me that, aside from being a misuse of talk pages, it is a pointless waste of everyone's time.
	* To be honest, I don't really understand why so many editors behave this way, treat themselves as RS, when the alternative, just following sources and the rules, liberates editors from having to answer, or even think about, questions like 'is this a massacre?', 'is this a genocide?', 'why doesn't genocide law distinguish between combatants and non-combatants?' etc. My wife and I often argue over whether a thing is color A or color B. This happens, in part, because the mappings from wavelengths to tokens are interestingly inconsistent across languages. This is fun and all, but these kinds of discussions/disagreements shouldn't happen in PIA because we are supposed to just reflect reliable sources rather than elevate ourselves to RS-level and argue our theory of the case. We all know this. ] (]) 08:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by BilledMammal====
	It feels a little unfair to focus on 3E1I5S8B9RF7 when this is a problem on both sides.
	The editors advocating that we count every casualty as a victim of genocide are doing the same thing that 3E1I5S8B9RF7 is, by trying to convince people that they have figured out how Misplaced Pages should count victims of an alleged genocide based on a personal decision procedure that makes sense to them - the sources presented in support of that claim don't say that X many people are victims, only that X many people have died in the war. ] (]) 22:23, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	:{{ping|Selfstudier}}, when used that way the template links to the talk page section, which at the time was titled "Is Mohammed Deif a victim of genocide?". That section was soon after closed and archived by an involved editor, which is why the link stopped working. ] (]) 22:53, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	:Considering how that discussion has now proceeded, it would be manifestly unfair to warn 3E1I5S8B9RF7 but not other editors involved in that discussion.
	:For example, Selfstudier and Buidhe are now engaging in discussions about who is a protected person, arguing that Hamas members are protected. This is no different to 3E1I5S8B9RF7 arguing that they are not - neither argument is relevant, as they aren’t based on direct statements from reliable sources about how many victims there are. ] (]) 18:03, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	::{{ping|Selfstudier}} And if the discussion was not about the death toll they might be appropriate. However, it is, and so divergences into who a protected person is are no more appropriate when the argument is that Hamas members are protected than it is when the argument is that they are not. ] (]) 18:11, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Buidhe ====
	I posted evidence that the assumption that genocide victims are innocent and targeted for no reason apart from ethnic hatred is a misconception not found in international law. Also, that the attempted elimination of Hamas is described as part of the genocide by reliable sources. I agree with selfstudier that this is different from arguing the opposite based not on any reliable sources but only from personal opinions / misconceptions. (] &#183; ]) ''']''' 19:46, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by (username)====
	<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->		<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
	===Result concerning 3E1I5S8B9RF7===		===Result concerning LaylaCares===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''		:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->		<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
			*I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. ] (]) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
	*{{u|Levivich}}, so is the sole diff from after they were given a CTOP alert? ] (]) 12:36, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
			*I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. ] (]) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
	*:I have difficulty saying that if {{tq|Should every Hamas fighter and militant be included as a victim of genocide? In my opinion, only civilians should be included, meaning a figure of around 16,000 civilians according to Israel or more according to some other sources.}} is NOTAFORUM, that {{tq|The sources used for the death toll in the article aren't all specifically about the ]; some are about the war and don't even contain the word "genocide." I think we should base casualty counts on sources that are about the Gaza genocide specifically. Or in other words: in the ]es that say it's a genocide, what do they say is the death toll of the genocide?}} is not. ] (]) 13:02, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
			*I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. ] (]/]) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
	*::Levivich, I would say that your position is obviously the correct one (how about we look at RS and see what they say?) but their edits are still reasonably about improvement of the article. They could have been better spoken, but "We're including every death in a war, I think we should only include non-combatant deaths" isn't out of the norm for talk page discussions and it points out the very reasonable issue that RS don't support what was in the article at the time. ] (]) 13:42, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
			*@]: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. ] (]/]) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	*Same question from me: is there evidence of CTOP awareness earlier? The single edit SFR notes is a bit of a NOTFORUM violation, but not at a level where I would consider any action for it alone. ] (]) 15:24, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
			*:I don't think the wording of ] allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. <small>(ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.)</small> That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	*:I'm okay with a logged warning. 3E1I5S8B9RF7, if you have concerns about the text, please raise them without any number of straw men and rhetorical questions. cannot reasonably be construed as an attempt to improve the article. ] (]) 17:30, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
			*I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making ''real'', substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	*::(Please keep your comments to your own section.) A logged warning for violating ], and for ]. ] (]) 18:17, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
			*I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag ''is'' an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	*Given Levivich's ] I would be in favor of a logged warning. ] (]) 15:45, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{hab}}		{{hab}}
			==AstroGuy0==
	==Bluethricecreamman==
			{{hat|{{u|AstroGuy0}} has been issued a warning for source misrepresentation by {{u|Voorts}}. No other reviewers have expressed any wish for further action. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 06:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC) }}
	{{hat|Everyone should stop edit warring, long term and otherwise. ] (]) 18:09, 19 August 2024 (UTC)}}
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>		<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
	===Request concerning Bluethricecreamman===		===Request concerning AstroGuy0===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|BilledMammal}} 23:42, 8 August 2024 (UTC)		; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Hemiauchenia}} 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
	; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Bluethricecreamman}}<p>{{ds/log|Bluethricecreamman}}</p>		; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|AstroGuy0}}<p>{{ds/log|AstroGuy0}}</p>
			<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
			;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
			<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
			(Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of '''race/ethnicity''' and human abilities '''and behaviour'''")
	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :		; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
			<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
	Violating ] and edit warring at ] by repeatedly reinstating the same disputed content:
			# Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once.
	#{{diff2|1230782834|17:49, 24 June 2024}}
			# Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani"
	#{{diff2|1238813865|20:28, 5 August 2024}}
	#{{diff2|1238935047|13:21, 6 August 2024}} (self-reverted {{diff2|1238939634|13:51, 6 August 2024}} following talk page request)
	#{{diff2|1239117395|12:44, 7 August 2024}}
	They ], saying that because they self-reverted 13:21, 6 August 2024 they were free to re-implement the edit. However, my understanding is that self-reverting, particularly when done only after the self-revert is requested, doesn't permit editors to ignore the most recent revert when re-implementing the edit and doing so comes across as ].
	It is relevant that an ], which closed as "no consensus". As the content was only in the article for six weeks, insufficient to establish it as the status quo, this means it should be excluded until a consensus is found to include it and editors should not be reinstating it even when done without edit warring or 1RR violations.
	; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :		; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):		;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on {{diff2|1197217847|16:29, 19 January 2024}} (see the system log linked to above).
			: Made aware of contentious topics criterion:
	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
	<!-- Add any further comment here -->		<!-- Add any further comment here -->
	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :		; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
	{{diff2|1239382260|23:42, 8 August 2024}}
			<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
	<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->		<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
			Additional comments by editor filing complaint:
	===Discussion concerning Bluethricecreamman===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
			This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. ] (]) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
	====Statement by Bluethricecreamman====
	* a) I've explained revert then self revert doesn't count towards the counter, but BilledMammal has been harrassing me and others in talkpage to self revert. Also like... wouldn't the applicable place for this report be the edit war noticeboard? ]. ] (])
	* Seen some folks argue that no consensus means removal. ] states specifically "When discussions of proposals to add, modify, or remove material in articles end without consensus, the common result is to retain the version of the article as it was prior to the proposal or bold edit." Obviously, after that May RFC fails, we should probably keep the version of the article that had been in place since March with the included paragraph. ] (]) 18:43, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	* Response to result: Glad to have been informed, will read the AC/CT more carefully next time. Will update my behavior accordingly. ] (]) 19:48, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	:* Doing a self-revert on last edit. ] (])
	====Statement by ABHammad====		===Discussion concerning AstroGuy0===
	<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
	I also noticed these problematic diffs, which seem to be part of a broader recent trend where disputed content is repeatedly inserted through edit warring in ARBPIA, despite being reverted multiple times. When asked to stop and wait for consensus, there are editors who reintroduce the disputed content anyway and insist that discussions should focus on whether the new content should be removed, rather than if it should be added in the first place. In some cases, they claim consensus exists, even when reverts indicate otherwise. Here are a few examples for these re-adds,leading to controversial content now appearing in the article:
	* ]: beside Bluethericecreamman, the disputed content was also restored by others following the RFC closure as no consensus: , .
	* ], where a new description as native/indigenous was introduced through edit warring:
	* ], where a scope change in all but name was introduced through edit warring, , , while a RM to move to "UNRWA and Israel" is now ongoing.
	* Similar dynamics can be found also at ]. This is how its primary description as a "movement that ... aimed for the establishment of a Jewish state through the colonization of a land outside of Europe." was introduced, despite many reverts and substantial talk disagreement.
	This seems why this may be part of the reason why Misplaced Pages is not pereceived as trustworthy anymore by some outside media when it comes to ARBPIA. ] (]) 08:46, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Left guide====
	{{yo|Bluethricecreamman}} No, that noticeboard is only for normal edit-warring subject to 3RR in non-contentious topics. For edit-warring in designated contentious topics with stricter revert rules, this is the appropriate venue. ] (]) 10:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	All else being equal, ] policy clause stipulates that disputed material stays out of an article unless and until there is a consensus for its inclusion: {{tq2|The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.}} ] (]) 20:19, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Selfstudier====
	{{Re|BilledMammal}} 6 weeks? Where's that from? (also see ] where myself and others aren't in agreement with your rather simplistic take on this matter). As for who started it, that would have been on 5 August, a month and a half (!) after ? ] (]) 19:22, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	===Result concerning Bluethricecreamman===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
	*A self revert does not reset the revert counter, in my opinion. Beyond that {{re|Bluethricecreamman}} I suggest you re-read the ] given your comments as from what I read here you to need {{tqq|edit '''carefully''' and '''constructively'''}} (emphasis in the original). In contentious topics {{tqq|Misplaced Pages’s norms and policies are more strictly enforced}} and so this self-evert resets your ability to do other reverts. In general your response here - including the suggestion it's the wrong forum which it's not - indicates you don't understand what it means to be a contentious topic and don't understand that norms and policies being more strictly enforced are exactly about this sort of thing. ] (]) 18:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:Given Blue's response I am ok closing this without further action. ] (]) 19:50, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
	*I think a reminder that long term edit warring is still edit warring wouldn't go amiss, although that goes for most editors in the topic area. ] (]) 12:50, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{hab}}
	==Bajaria==
	{{hat|Blocked by {{u|Theleekycauldron}} for two days for violating ECR. ] (]) 12:45, 12 August 2024 (UTC)}}
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
	===Request concerning Bajaria===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|The Kip}} 20:16, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Bajaria}}<p>{{ds/log|Bajaria}}</p>
	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
	User in question initially made two edits to ] concerning the Israel-Hamas war and related:
	#
	#
	They were subsequently on their talk page, although the edits were not reverted.
	I later noticed them while editing the current events portal - ''after'' receiving the CTOP notice, they've been on a rush of additions to prior (often months-back) CE portal entries, almost entirely concerning the Israel-Hezbollah conflict and related:
	#
	#
	#
	#
	I subsequently the ] on their talk page at 07:55 on 10 August, with an additional warning that they are not extended confirmed and therefore not allowed to edit in the area. They failed to respond, and later went right back to their additions:
	#
	#
	; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
	N/A
	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	* Initial CTOP notice given .
	* ] given .
	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
	The unfortunate thing is that their edits don't seem to be disruptive in the way that a lot of ] non-extended confirmed editors often are within the ARBPIA area - looking through their CE contribs, I don't really detect an attempt at POV-pushing. The problem is that they've thus far been unresponsive to the notion that they're simply not allowed to be editing in the area at the moment, and they're also far further from XC than their contribution count makes it appear, given that a fairly large portion of their 430ish edits are ECR violations. ] ] <span style="color:#C8102E;"><small><sup>(])</sup></small></span> 20:16, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
	:"The unfortunate thing is that their edits don't seem to be disruptive..." you mean I am not being disruptive enough? Do tell me, how can I be more of a disruptive entity to your service? ] (]) 01:00, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
	::@] I meant that as more of a compliment to you actually, as in you’re not the NOTHERE disruptive type that usually gets slapped with ARBPIA ECR-related sanctions - your edits, for the most part, seem constructive. The problem is that you’re simply not allowed to be making them until you’re extended-confirmed. ] ] <span style="color:#C8102E;"><small><sup>(])</sup></small></span> 02:53, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
	:::@] To make it clear as possible:
	:::* I am not encouraging disruption.
	:::* I was complimenting you; I meant that it's unfortunate that this case had to be filed, because your edits seem far more constructive than those of many others who've violated ECR in this topic.
	:::* It had to be filed, however, because you did not respond to, if not outright disregarded, the warnings that you're simply not allowed to edit in the topic as you are not extended confirmed.
	:::] ] <span style="color:#C8102E;"><small><sup>(])</sup></small></span> 07:05, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
	===Discussion concerning Bajaria===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>		<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	====Statement by Bajaria====		====Statement by AstroGuy0====
	:"The unfortunate thing is that their edits don't seem to be disruptive..." you mean I am not being disruptive enough? Do tell me, how can I be more of a disruptive entity to your service? ] (]) 01:00, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Sean.hoyland====		====Statement by Iskandar323====
			This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. ] (]) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
	The fact that the editor chose to respond with "Do tell me, how can I be more of a disruptive entity to your service?" rather than something like "Oh no! I didn't realize I wasn't following the rules. Apologies. I'll follow them from now on." is worth highlighting. Editors shouldn't get to pick which policies and guidelines apply to them. ] (]) 05:25, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
	:I suppose I'm an independent free spirited adventurous out-of-the-box-thinking soul with a biting sense of sarcastic humor, rather than just immediately being a sheeple but then again is; "I meant that as more of a compliment to you actually..." by The Kip meaning they is encouraging any kind of disruptive behavior? But then again it might be a cultural difference. ] (]) 06:21, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by (username)====		====Statement by (username)====
	<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->		<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
	===Result concerning Bajaria===		===Result concerning AstroGuy0===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''		:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->		<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
	*<!--		*<!--
	-->		-->
			:The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. ] (]/]) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
	* '''Blocked''' for 48 hours, since they're literally making ARBPIA edits as the case goes on. ] (] • she/her) 06:33, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
			:I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
			::Given that AstroGuy0 has already been issued a warning, I don't think anything further is necessary, and will close as such unless any uninvolved admin shortly objects. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 18:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
	{{hab}}		{{hab}}
	==PeleYoetz==
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
	===Request concerning PeleYoetz===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Levivich}} 20:42, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
	; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PeleYoetz}}<p>{{ds/log|PeleYoetz}}</p>
	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
	New three-month old account, same old edit wars.
	* ]
	** Removals of "colonization" and similar (partial list: editors who have been sanctioned recently or have pending reports at AE): {{u|Kentucky Rain24}} (KR) ], {{u|האופה}} ], ], {{u|ABHammad}} ] (]), {{u|O.maximov}} ], ], ], ], ], {{u|Icebear244}} ], , ] (predicate edit for ] report), ''']''' - first and only edit to the article with edit summary {{tqq|Reverted to the last stable version ...}}
	** ] - {{tqq|There's clearly no consensus here ... I see 9-10 voices against the change.}}
	*** {{u|Icebear244}} ], filing ]: {{tqq|There is significant opposition to the proposed changes (at least 7 editors) evident on both the talk page and through repeated restorations of the last stable version.}}
	*** Icebear244 ] clarifies it's 9, not 7: {{tqq|You seem to have overlooked @האופה, who also opposed using the term in the discussion, and it appears @Vegan416 did too.}}
	*** ]: {{tqq|... At least 7 editors clearly oppose this framing}}
	*** Of the 9-10 editors, 3 have been blocked, 1 TBANed, 1 0RR, and 3 currently have pending AE reports
	* ] - "various causes" / "various reasons": ], ], ] (predicate edit for ] report), ], ''']''' - first and only edit to the article, with edit summary {{tqq|there is no consensus for this new change}}. No talk page posts.
	* ]
	** ] - removes it entirely in their first edit to the article with edit summary {{tqq|this article is about UNRWA involvement in October 7, not the history of Israeli-UNRWA relations, removing recently added material that totally changed the scope}}
	*** They had not participated in the talk page discussion prior to reverting
	*** One talk page message immediately prior to the revert: ]; more after: ], ], ]
	** ] - removes it entirely in their first and only edit to the article with edit summary {{tqq|the scope was changed without real discussion on the proposed change}}
	*** They had not participated in the discussion on the talk page prior to reverting
	*** Two talk page messages immediately prior to the revert: ], ]
	; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):]
	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
	Outside of the editors I've reported to AE, in this topic area, right now, I don't believe you will find other examples of what this report shows: two editors, "Editor A" and "Editor B", where Editor B:
	# Repeats Editor A's edits, votes the same way as Editor A, or otherwise "backs up" Editor A
	# Three times at three different articles
	# At articles they've never edited before
	# Where they've also never before participated on the talk page
	# Where they contribute nothing to the article ''except'' backing up Editor A
	# Within the first few months of editing
	We can even drop #6, I still don't think there's another example outside of what I've posted at AE lately. {{yo|Vanamonde93}} Would it change your mind if, instead of three times, it was six times? Here are three more examples: ], ]; ], ]; ], ]. As a bonus, here's a seventh example, this time the order is reversed: ], ]. This is not normal editing; this isn't something other editors do. But if we allow this to happen, if we say this is an OK thing to do, then others will start doing it, too. ] (]) 19:25, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	:Though PeleYoetz continued editing after I filed this report, they haven't edited since Van asked for their comment four days ago. FWIW I'm fine for this to be closed as moot if admins want to; if there is future disruption, I or someone else can ask for admin intervention if needed. ] (]) 21:54, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ]
	<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	===Discussion concerning PeleYoetz===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	====Statement by PeleYoetz====
	Hello everyone,
	I have to admit that I'm not entirely sure what's going on here. Most of my Misplaced Pages activity is focused on tourism and food-related topics. I've only made a few edits regarding the conflict, and since then, I've felt increasingly targeted. It began with Selfstudier questioning on my talk page how I found the UNRWA page, a topic that made headlines in my home country of Israel the same day (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3APeleYoetz&diff=1239101772&oldid=1236281410). Then came this report by Levivich, which I still don't fully understand, and now I've received a strange question from Nableezy on my talk page (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3APeleYoetz&diff=1240399865&oldid=1239832259). I’m getting the impression that my contributions on the conflict are simply unwelcome.
	If I've made any mistakes or violated Misplaced Pages policies, I'd appreciate it if someone could let me know. I've read through many pages before editing, and I hope I haven't done anything wrong.
	Thank you. ] (]) 10:26, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Selfstudier====
	Until recently I had no real involvement with this editor other than giving an awareness notice in July. Just to add to Levivich diffs:
	At ], , arrives 2 minutes after האופה (aka HaOfa) edit and changes the SD from Town in the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights -> Druze town in the northern Golan Heights, an obvious POV edit.
	At ], shows up at ] same day as nominated by HaOfa, no prior article edits or at talk page. Agrees with HaOfa.
	Same pattern at ], no prior involvement and then consecutive reverts, HaOfa then PeleYoetz.
	It is doubtful that this pattern is coincidental. PeleYoetz role appears to be as back up for HaOfa, to support their actions.
	====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
	I wish PeleYoetz had decided to say nothing rather than write about being targeted, having strange questions and being unwelcome. Now I need to ask whether it matters that an editor with ~1050 edits spread over ~380 different pages has 175 pages in common with topic banned and blocked editor ]?
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	{{collapse bottom}}
	] (]) 12:25, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by (username)====
	<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
	===Result concerning PeleYoetz===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
	*I don't see what action I could reasonably take here. The ideal approach to a content dispute is for all parties to engage substantively on the talk page until it's sorted, via RfC and outside input if needed. Across the ARBPIA conflict, editors don't do this; instead are slow-moving multi-party edit-wars, and considerable stonewalling on talk pages. When this behavior becomes egregious I'm open to sanctioning anyone and everyone involved, but I don't see anything here rising to that level. A ''lot'' of users could stand to engage better on the talk page(s). ] (]) 18:04, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:I'd be interested to hear from PeleYoetz in light of the most recent diffs. As I've said elsewhere, agreement between parties heavily invested in the topic is to be expected; a similar pattern from editors not substantively engaged implies off-wiki coordination. ] (]) 19:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	*I'm generally addressing this at ] since it's basically the same report, but these types of patterns are wildly easy to find looking at anyone who is involved in the topic area. In less than ten minutes I found more damning "evidence" for two other editors active in the topic. As I said there, if we're going to sanction based on these patterns it would have to be evenly enforced and boy howdy it would be a mess. ] (]) 12:11, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:I think tag-team edit-warring is disruptive. If regulars aren't willing to not be disruptive, then yeah, they've kind of forced our hand. ] (] • she/her) 18:20, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:Close with no action, hopefully addressed at Arbcom? ] (]) 18:10, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::Are you suggesting no action is the appropriate outcome or are you suggesting that refer to arbcom is the right outcome but since we're already there nothing more needs to be done? ] (]) 18:12, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::The latter. ] (]) 18:23, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
	==האופה==
	{{hat|There is a consensus among uninvolved administrators to ]. I will file the request for amendment shortly. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 16:32, 17 August 2024 (UTC)}}
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
	===Request concerning האופה===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Levivich}} 20:50, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
	; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|האופה}}<p>{{ds/log|האופה}}</p>
	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
	{{hat|Original report and prior replies}}
	We continue with the same edit wars:
	* ] - removals of "colonization" and similar (partial list: editors who have been sanctioned recently or have pending reports at AE), this time with edit summaries:
	** {{u|Kentucky Rain24}} (KR) ] {{tqq|per מתיאל's edit summary}}
	** ''']''' {{tqq|reverting politicized and inflammatory recent addition to lgf}}
	** ] {{tqq|there's an active discussion about this, don;t change a long standing version until it is revolved}}
	** {{u|ABHammad}} ] {{tqq|Restoring last good version before recent POV edit. This is under discussion, no consensus has been reached, and anyway this source definitely cannot be used with wiki voice}}; ] {{tqq|Removing this recent addition from the lead due to its editorialized and synthesized nature, which relies on problematic sources: Morris, who does not mention settler-colonialism; Jabotinsky, a primary source from a century ago used anachronistically; and Finkelstein, known for fringe views.}}
	** {{u|O.maximov}} ] {{tqq|in this edit you have reinserted extremely controversial content (the use of "colonization" and statements by fringe scholars) that has been reverted before. Please don't edit war, and instead refer to WP:ONUS}}
	** ''']''' {{tqq|yes, this content is sourced, but WP:ONUS says that While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included, it requires consensus, and the responibility for achieving it is on those seeking to include disputed content.}}
	** ] {{tqq|it's in the 4th prgrph}}
	** ] {{tqq|clearly no consensus for colonization at this stage (per WP:CONSENSUS, WP:ONUS), and re-establishement is a fact (see History of ancient Israel and Judah)}}
	** ''']''' {{tqq|Restoring previous lead, undoing changes there were FORCIBLY introduced, with no consensus ever reached on the matter and in violation of WP:ONUS. At least 7 editors clearly oppose this framing}}
	** {{u|Icebear244}} ] {{tqq|The next to restore this disputed version, against consensus and every possible wiki policy, will be reported for edit warring and disruptive editing.}}
	**
	** ] {{tqq|as we all know this framing never achieved consensus for inclusion}} (predicate edit for ] report)
	** ] {{tqq|Reverted to the last stable version of the first paragraph before disputed changes sparked a two-month-long edit war. Consensus was never reached despite extensive discussions, so any further changes will likely require an RFC}} (predicate edit for ] report)
	** ''']''' {{tqq|undoing disruptive restoration of disputed content. Please start an RfC}}
	** 25 talk page edits:
	* ]
	**Replacing "]" with "]" or "various reasons"
	***Removing "Nakba" from lead: ], ] edit summary {{tqq|haven't seen any clear consensus for this recent addition}}
	***June 8 RFC launched: ]
	***Replacing "Nakba" with "various causes"
	****] {{tqq|replacing oversimplified, narrative-style framing that still haven't gained consensus with what can be said in WP:VOICE}}
	****] {{tqq|disagree, there is an ongoing RFC on this, there is no consensus}}
	***Adding "various causes" or "various reasons"
	****] {{tqq|last consensual version of this before weight changes}} (predicate edit for ] report)
	****] {{tqq|this phrasing has been stable for a while now}}
	****] {{tqq|there is no consensus for this new change}}
	****] {{tqq|restoring last stable version before inclusion of disputed content without clear consensus. Changes should follow discussions and RFCs, not precede it}}
	*****This was ''not'' the last stable version; rather, "various causes" was added during the ongoing RFC
	*****Note this edit: ] {{tqq|the rfc has just started, wait for it to conclude}}
	*****We had a discussion about this edit at ], and while their last comment there was reasonable, immediately prior to making that comment, they made the Zionism revert diff'd above, so I came here instead of continuing discussion
	** Removing "continues to expand" settlements
	*** ] {{tqq|this one paragraph, also trimming repetitive}}
	*** ] {{tqq|This can be trimmed without changing the meaning}}
	** Removing "illegally occupied"
	*** ] {{tqq|there is no consensus for this change}}
	*** ] (same Aug 10 diff as above)
	**Tel Aviv is not the largest city
	***]
	***]
	***] (same Aug 10 diff as above
	*** ... because ] is the largest city, because ] is part of Israel (it's not): see comments at ]
	**14 talk page edits:
	More of this editor's edits have been diffed at ], ], ], and ]. Note the similarity in edit summaries across these edits. ] (]) 20:50, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
	:Re SFR: I wasn't counting warnings as sanctions and I'm not aware of Blue being involved in the Zionism edit war. When you say "there is no consensus," are you counting the views of the 3 blocked compromised accounts, the editor with a TBAN, and the editor with 0rr? If you remove these sleeper/new accounts that are tag-team edit warring, there are only like 2 editors who actually object to including "colonization". There is consensus to include it in the lead. That's what separates one side of the edit war from the other. ] (]) 15:51, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	:Of all possible admin responses, including totally ignoring this, the most dangerous one is saying there is no consensus because a group of new/sleeper accounts has suddenly appeared to question mainstream views. "No consensus to include" is the goal of the bad faith actors. ] (]) 15:53, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	:More @SFR: I think you're looking at this superficially. The complaint isn't "someone reinstated a prior edit!" If that were true, if all we did was count reverts and award a point for each one, then yeah, there's plenty of points to go around. As an example, look at the "various causes" edit war. {{u|Jeppiz}} ] and {{u|Alaexis}} ] also reinstated that content in the middle of an RFC, just like PeleYoetz and האופה. But I didn't include Jeppiz and Alaexis in this report or file any AE against them. Why? Because Jeppiz and Alaexis aren't going around reinstating each other's edits across multiple articles. They didn't start editing at the same time and jump into the same discussions and edit wars on the same side on articles they never edited before. Yes, all four editors made the same edit; but only two of them show a long-term pattern of this style of editing (actually short-term since the two haven't been editing in this topic area very long). PeleYoetz and האופה are significantly disruptive; Jeppiz and Alaexis (and the editors you mentioned) are not. I don't believe anyone can put together a "diff train" for Jeppiz or Alaexis or Selfstudier or anyone else like these diff trains that I've been posting at AE; this pattern is unique, and rather obvious to me. ] (]) 16:49, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	:@SFR: those are 4 examples over 2 years. Can you find 7 examples within the 3 months? Or within the first 3 months of either account starting editing? This isn't just about one person reinstating another person's edits; I beg of you to make your analysis deeper. Consider more variables, make comparisons more specific. ] (]) 12:13, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	::One of those variables is the content. If I filed a report showing new editors tag teaming to say that Obama wasn't born in the US, I doubt anyone would respond with "but other editors edit war, too." If other people are tag teaming right now, let a report be filed, and let's examine the edits. ] (]) 12:29, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	::Test your theory. Set the start date on the EIA to 4/1/24 (or any three month period) and see if you can find 7 examples of tag teaming on 7 different articles between Isk and Self. And if you do, see if what they're edit warring over is true or not. And even if you want to ignore the content, look at the other variables. Like can you find 7 examples where they've never edited the article before or since, where the only contribution is to back each other up? Because what I'm showing you goes far beyond people reinstating each others' edits. ] (]) 12:38, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	SFR's 8 example edits provide a wonderful opportunity to show what the difference is between one side in an edit war and another:
	# ] - , ,
	#*Selfstudier is the #1 contributor to this article; Iskander is a top-10 contributor to the talk page, having made their first edit there back in January - neither are new to this article
	#*The edit made here was the result of consensus following ''months'' of discussion, in which both editors participated
	#*Both Self and Isk's reverts were reverting the edits of Pele and HaOfa (diff'd in their respective reports), neither of whom had edited the article before or since, nor participated in the prior talk page discussions, but who showed up "out of the blue" to revert a change that had consensus, and to re-instate that revert when it had been reverted
	#*Self and Isk are upholding policy/consensus; Pele and HaOfa are violating it
	# (])
	#* A user says "The expulsion of Palestinians started only in April 1948 – six months into the civil war – and was a direct consequence of the conflict. According to Morris, the majority of the Palestinians fled out of fear of being caught up in hostilities, rather than being directly expelled." -- this is flat untrue, easily disproven by looking at sources on the subject, including Morris (for examples, see ], which has many sources quoted, including Morris -- I wrote that section specifically to counter this common "it didn't start until after" ] talking point).
	#* Both Self and Isk point out it's not true
	#* This is in no way "tag teaming"; one of the "sides" here is misrepresenting sources (violating policy), and the other two are disputing that; not sure why this edit is listed here
	# (])
	#*Self has been editing this page since 2019; Isk since 2022; both have participated in talk page discussions; neither are new to this page
	#*First, let's look at the content: changing {{tqq|effective annexation}} to {{tqq|extended Israeli jurisdiction to the area}}. !!! That is ''one hell'' of a POV edit! Can you imagine writing that Russia "extended its jurisdiction" over Ukraine? {{lol}}! (That's without even getting into the US recognition part of the edit.)
	#*Next, let's look at the edit war chain in full: (I'm not going to diff it, it's easy to see in the article history): GreekParadise (who made a few edits to the article earlier that week, and no talk page edits yet up to that point, and is a sleeper account that was inactive between 2013 and June 2024, and has edited nothing but ARBPIA since June) changes "effective annexation" to "extended Israeli jurisdiction to the area". Supreme Deliciousness takes it out. HaOfa (who had edited the article and talk page prior) puts it back in. Self takes it out. GreekP puts it back in. Nableezy takes it out. GreekP puts it back in. Self takes it out. GreekP puts it back in. Isk takes it out.
	#*That's basically one editor adding some crazy whitewashing and trying to edit war it in, with an assist from a second editor. Those two are violating policy (and whitewashing history). The other four editors who took it out are upholding policy (and truth).
	#*GreekP was sanctioned for this at ]
	# (])
	#*This is the long Zionism edit war we're all familiar with, which I've diff'd in this report and elsewhere. There are too many editors involved for me to go through each one of them here, but if anyone wants to, they can look at that chain and ask the same questions: which side has blocked/banned/never-edited-the-article-or-talk-page-before editors, and which side has longstanding contributors to the article; which side is editing to implement talk page consensus, and which side is contravening talk page consensus; which side is following the sources and which side isn't; etc. (Also, PS: it's a dispute about the word "colonization," not about "settler colonialism" specifically.)
	# (])
	#*Both Self and Isk are top-10 contributors to the article or talk page, having edited/participated since 2021 and 2022
	#*The content: ], which is user-generated and WP:OR. It is sourced to ], which is '''red''' at ]. That's a reason to remove it on its own. But compare the map with and you can plainly see that this map differs from the source; the OR map expands the size of ancient Israel. (I'll let you take a guess how that overlaps with the claimed borders of modern Israel.) This map is a lie, it's OR and fails verification, and is anyway sourced to an unreliable source.
	#*Isk takes it out; HaOfa (who had never edited the article before or since, and never posted on the talk page) puts it back in; Self takes it out; {{u|Uppagus}} (6 mos, 600 edits, one and only edit to the page, never posted on the talk page) puts it back in
	#*Again: two editors who "swooped in" out of nowehere ''only'' to make these reverts, which clearly violate policy; the other two editors are longstanding contributors to the article who are upholding policy
	#* After this edit, I am going to take this map out of the article even though I've never edited that page before, because it so clearly fails verification and is OR; let's see who reverts me...
	# (])
	#*Self edited the article since 2023; Isk is a top-10 contributor
	#*Isk removes some unsourced material; {{u|Owenglyndur}} (5 mos, 1900 edits, never edited the article before, never posted on the talk page, later blocked for copyvio) puts it back in; Self takes it out
	#*Same pattern: new editor swooping in to violate policy (restoring unsourced material) vs. two long-term contributors upholding policy
	# - these are the same as #5 - SFR, I'm guessing you meant to put different diffs here; whatever they are, check them against this pattern and see: is it articles that Isk/Self have contributed to before vs. editors whose only contribution is to join the edit war? Is it one side upholding policy v. the other side violating policy? Without even knowing what the diffs are, I bet the answer is yes...
	# (])
	#* Self has been participating at this article since 2022; Isk is a top-10 contibutor, also since 2022
	#* This is about the same map as #5
	#* Isk removes it; HaOfa (never edited article before or since, no talk page posts) restores it; Self removes it; ABHammad (never edited the article before or since, no talk page posts) restores it; Isk removes it again
	#* Same pattern: one side is new editors swooping in violating policy, the other side is longstanding contributors upholding policy
	#BONUS: {{u|Nableezy}}'s ] to ] that SFR mentions. Since the Israel edit war is well-documented elsewhere on this page, I won't go through it step by step, but note that Nableezy is putting back the version that was there before an ongoing RFC opened, whereas the "other side" of this edit war are the same group of editors making a bold change ''during'' the RFC and edit warring to reinstate it, ''plus'' the change is the "various causes" whitewashing nonsense (very similar to the "extended its jurisdiction" whitewashing nonsense).
	Clearly, there is a big difference between what Self and Isk are doing in these edits, and what the "other side" of the edit war is doing in these edits. We should '''not''' treat these two sides as the same. One side is regular contributors trying to building an encyclopedia (upholding policy), the other side is new/sleeper accounts who never edited the articles before or since trying to whitewash it (violating policy). SFR, I hope you see the difference? ] (]) 17:07, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	:@SFR: sure but I need to give AE an opportunity to address this before it's taken up at any other noticeboards (I'd probably go to ANI before arbcom; SPI is also an option; we may also at some point have an appeal at AN).
	:I see you understand the difference but don't seem to care about them. I'd appreciate it if you explicitly addressed the differences though: why does "never edited the article before" and "policy compliant vs policy violations" not matter to you?
	:Btw: I count 28 diffs in my original report, 12 of which are just repeating the Zionism diffs for convenience so folks don't have to go clicking around, so I think I'm ok there; your diffs don't count toward my diff limit. Also, it's a lot of edit warring to demonstrate, that can't be helped. I am over the word limit but there's no way to have this discussion in under 500 words. ] (]) 19:10, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{hab}}
	----
	Maybe presenting the diffs in a different way will make a difference. This and the other recent reports show HaOfa not just edit warring (my definition: repeating edits without consensus) but edit warring to remove from Misplaced Pages statements saying that:
	* ] ] ] or ] to Palestine
	* the expulsion/flight was caused by Israel and not ] "] ]"
	* Israel annexed the ], not "]"
	* Israel's occupation ] ]
	* Israel is ] its settlements,
	* Israel engaged in ]
	* ] ] ] ]
	* ] is ] ] ] ]
	At some articles, they edit war claiming (edit summaries diff'd/quoted in hatted section above) "ONUS", "FORCIBLY introduced", "start an RFC", "the rfc has just started, wait for it to conclude"; at the same time at another article, they repeatedly reinstate a bold change ''during'' an RFC. They incorrectly claimed "last stable version" while reinstating recent bold changes. They made changes with the edit summary "no consensus" while reinstating changes that had no consensus. Sometimes they did this at articles where they never edited or discussed before or since, like at ] ] to reinstate a user-generated ] with an ] that .
	In short: months of repeating their own and others' edits across multiple articles, violating ], ], ] and ], with incorrect and contradictory edit summaries.
	We don't need a panel of a dozen arbs for this. Reviewing admins can look at these diffs and say (1) yes/no do they violate V, NPOV, NOR, EW, or other policies, and (2) if so, what should be done if anything to prevent future violations. It's hard to answer the second question without hearing from the person being reported. The person being reported doesn't have a reason to say anything until the first question is answered.
	If admins answer the first question as yes, there's no need to go to arbcom or anywhere else; see what HaOfa has to say about it. If the admins say no, then there's no need to go anywhere else, just close the report saying so. If admins disagree about whether it's yes or no, then it might be worth seeking additional input at another venue (although the decision of which venue should be left up to the editor(s) who intend to volunteer the time to present evidence).
	As for the conduct of other editors, I strongly agree with Nableezy's comment that {{tqq|If an editor were to write 'Poland lost the majority of its Jewish population due to various causes' nobody would be talking about how there are two sides battlegrounding or edit-warring ...}}. If someone can put together a list like the one above about some other editor, then they should post that to AE, and reviewing admins should answer the two questions about that set of diffs.
	FWIW, from my perspective, AE has worked better than I expected so far, and I don't see why it shouldn't continue to work for this report or any other similar report. ] (]) 01:43, 15 August 2024 (UTC) <small>Edited ] (]) 04:16, 15 August 2024 (UTC)</small>
	:I think it would be a mistake to send this to arbcom, or take any action, without first hearing from the reported editors.
	:And if there are concerns about other editors, step one would be to file an AE case against those other editors. It'll be hard to show that the community can't resolve something when no effort has been made yet. ] (]) 14:45, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	:::''Me: "It'll be hard to show that the community can't resolve this."''
	:::''The community: "Hold my beer."''
	::HaOfa hasn't edited since I filed this report five days ago. That hasn't stopped the rest of us from filling up most of this page, and now we've somehow gotten to the point where either BM and Nabs are sanctioned or this goes to arbcom. I've tried and failed to bring this back on track.
	::It took me a while to write both versions of this report. And I get that we're all volunteers, and if people don't want to read it, that's fine. Or if they read it and they don't think it amounts to much, that's fine, too. But please don't use it as a springboard to air pre-existing grievances about other editors. To everyone: if you have a problem with another editor, please file your own report (at AE, ARCA, RFAR, ANI, or wherever). Don't use my report as an opportunity to bring attention to an unrelated grievance between other people. Please respect the time I put into this. Unless it's about me, or HaOfa, it doesn't really belong in this thread, it belongs in a new one. That is, after all, what I was told when I brought up HaOfa's and others' conduct in the Nishidani thread ({{tqq|Further action related to anything here will need a separate report.}}). So I wrote a separate report.
	::And I ask again that we focus on that, and not on the sideshows (and my thanks to those who did focus on the report). HaOfa hasn't edited since I filed this report, which means there is no disruption ongoing right now, regardless of what people think about the diffs. So one available option is that this can be closed as moot; should disruption continue, I or someone else can ask for admin intervention again. And then other people can go write their own reports if they want to. ] (]) 21:59, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	]
	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ]
	<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	===Discussion concerning האופה===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	====Statement by האופה====
	====Statement by Bluethricecreamman====
	See also participation in this edit war (same one as the case involving me above) ] (]) 00:38, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by ABHammad====
	Time to get upfront? This is the latest of multiple reports by the same editor, where unsubstantiated claims are being expressed repeatedly in what may feel like a constant threat to potentially scare off editors with different views. A substantial amount of the diffs presented are valid attempts to restore the last consensus versions in the face of constant additions of disputed content through edit warring regardless of consensus and in violation of WP:ONUS. Although it is best to assume goodfaith, this is certainly becoming cumbersome and perhaps even humiliating for these editors. We may need to consider a potential ] in this case. ] (]) 13:42, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	:@], I think the reverts from the two editors are very different in substance. The lead for ] was recently changed to include a very controversial definition ("colonization of a land outside Europe") that has not achieved consensus. HaOfa appears to be restoring the last stable version and advocating for further discussion and an RfC on talk, while Selfstudier seems to be reinstating a new, disputed change despite considerable opposition (which, I must admit, includes me). I think this context should be taken into account. ] (]) 10:12, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Selfstudier====
	{{Re|ScottishFinnishRadish}} What's that "warned for aspersions" about, please? ] (]) 15:27, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	:{{Re|ScottishFinnishRadish}} Please change the misleading diff to reflect the situation. Thanks. ] (]) 16:10, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{Re|ScottishFinnishRadish}} That's a pretty fair misrepresentation of what has occurred at the UNRWA allegations article, the first diff is me doing what was agreed to in talk page discussions that have been taking place over a long period of time, it wasn't a revert and no-one was objecting to it until Haofa/PeleYoetz showed up together out of the blue to revert it.] (]) 15:35, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	:{{Re|ScottishFinnishRadish}} Those discussions have been going on for months including prior to that and that is why there is also an RM in process to give effect to them. I am sincerely displeased that one editor has filed a complaint against two others and yet it seems that I am being put on trial by selective diff as a result.] (]) 16:07, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	::{{Re|ScottishFinnishRadish}} You haven't reached this one as yet in your "content review". Look now at the developments with the UNRWA allegations article edits. The RM that I said was in progress has concluded as I wished it and the 2 reverts by these editors look now completely left field as both Levivich and myself initially pointed out. No need for an admin to decide any content issue, it has been decided.] (]) 15:21, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
	::{{Re|ScottishFinnishRadish}} If sanctions need to be spread more widely then so be it, but the totality needs to be examined not just selected parts of it. That my name would show up at these articles is hardly a surprise, I would be surprised if it didn't, as I have been attending these articles for years, not months. As I have specifically commented at the other related case, something is rotten in the state of Denmark.] (]) 16:33, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	:::{{Re|theleekycauldron}} Who was I tag teaming with, please? Did you mean PeleYoetz and Haofa ? ] (]) 09:31, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	::::{{Re|theleekycauldron}} Let me just parse that. The edits on the 10th are about different material than the edits on the 11th. Of the four edits on the 11th, I restored along with Tarnished Path while the actual reported editors here claimed to be restoring an earlier consensus version. It was my one and only edit for a month or more, so the answer to my question must be that I tag teamed with Tarnished Path, who I don't know from Adam. Are there any other examples of my tag teaming with Tarnished Path? Let me now go back to June/July. I made one edit in July, on the second, tag teaming with no-one, instead I was tag teamed by Vegan (now Tbanned) and Hammad (now 0RR). So nothing there. Let's have a look at June. On 6 June I presumably tagteamed with Unbandito against KentuckyRain(indeffed) and HaOfa (reported here). That's it, 3 edits. How on earth are those 3 edits construed as tag teaming edit warring??? ] (]) 18:48, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	:::::{{Re|theleekycauldron}} A simplification at least, no tag teaming. Except that now it is said that because I participated on the talk pages I must have been aware of earlier edit warring and that my revert therefore constituted a continuation of that edit warring (which I did not participate in) over a period of two months prior. I concede that I was aware of the prior edit warring, at least in general terms, but this construction strikes me as novel, to say the least.
	:::::Should I have not reverted and instead started an RFC myself? Well, I don't think so, not in the circumstances, which can be adduced quite straightforwardly at the relevant talk page section, per my contemporaneous comments on 11 August at ]. As yet, of those calling for an RFC none has attempted to start one.] (]) 23:49, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	:::{{Re|ScottishFinnishRadish}} Seriously?? 3 totally unconnected diffs from 2022??? And a diff pointing to my opening an AFD in February this year? I really do need to get this straight. Levivich files a complaint against a couple editors for tag teaming and provides a bunch of diffs as evidence of that. I add a couple more. Then I am firstly accused of tag teaming with zero diffs/evidence of that based on a single revert that I made (my one and only edit to the article in over a month, followed up immediately on the talk page). Now, how does that work, exactly? Grateful for any coherent explanation. To reiterate, if someone wants to bring a case against me for tag teaming or for anything else, then they can do that, but not that a judge turned defense attorney attempts to find me guilty of I don't know what exactly, via selective historical diffs. ] (]) 12:24, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	If we are going to do this properly, let's look at this editor interaction thing, I threw myself and Iskandar into it for 1 January to date (this year, not 2022), Well, the first noticeable thing is that a large majority of the results are talk pages. And RSN. So let's leave those alone and pick out an article instead, the first one we come to is ], that's a controversial one, so let's have a look a the detailed timeline for that. Oh wait, I made 109 edits but Iskandar only made 2, should we discard it or take a closer look at the 2? Let's see, what about ] article, 9 edits by Iskandar and 4 by me. There you go, I put it out there for anyone that wants to build their case against me. You could try it with others besides Iskandar, Nableezy, etcetera. I'll wait. ] (]) 13:27, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{Re|ScottishFinnishRadish}} If tag teaming is demonstrated, it should be sanctioned. One more time, waiting for anyone that wishes to bring a case against me for tag teaming using your diffs or any others. ] (]) 15:18, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	I think it is difficult in certain cases to entirely separate content issues from behavior, however desirable that might be in theory. There is certainly a continuity of both subject matter and editors between the two cases here (one case, really) and the Nishidani case, for example. ] (]) 10:08, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{Re|ScottishFinnishRadish}} The content review, the link for "On the apartheid edit..." is wrong, I think? ] (]) 18:14, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{Re|BilledMammal}} That it? ] (]) 10:23, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{Re|ScottishFinnishRadish}} Levivich and myself did discuss such a filing during the Nishidani case but it never quite got off the ground. Not sure we're quite there with this either, part of the problem is that a case ostensibly about tag teaming has, somewhat unnecessarily imo, turned into another sort of case by osmosis or something. Not hearing from the editors in question doesn't help. If the party line is that tag teaming is too difficult to pin down, let's just say that and then we know. But let's not pretend that we're sending this case (or two cases) to Arbcom. If we did want a generalized Arbcom case, this wouldn't be it in my view.] (]) 11:53, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by fiveby====
	SFR, edits which restore the "various causes" language following {{u|IOHANNVSVERVS}}' comments ] probably deserve a more critical view. ](]) 16:26, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by IOHANNVSVERVS====
	I can add this quite balatant POV-push edit where HaOfa unilaterally removed the Israel Defense Forces from the infobox of ]. ] (]) 16:36, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Sean.hoyland====
	The Zionism article has been targeted by numerous people using deception via sockpuppetry. Examples include
	* Here come the Suns, Kentucky Rain24 (NoCal100),
	* ElLuzDelSur,
	* Aroma Stylish, BanyanClimber, SoaringLL (AndresHerutJaim/יניב הורון)
	* ManOnTheMoon92 (Tombah)
	So we know a) the article is being targeted by sockpuppets, b) socks edit war and c) the costs of sanctions for disposable accounts is precisely zero. Any decisions based on the notion of balance, sides/bothsidesism etc. should presumably take this into account because "sides" can't include accounts that are not allowed to edit at all. This is another reason why accounts reported (and commenting) at AE should have checkusers run on them, to avoid arriving at a false balance. ] (]) 09:59, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Iskandar323====
	With regards to the examples pulled up below regarding aligned edits by myself and Self, isn't the issue raised above by Levivich more about actual slow-motion edit warring, not just joint appearances on talk pages? I'm not saying that editors don't naturally overlap on watched pages, but there's quite a significant material difference between edit wars on page and contributions on talk. ] (]) 13:15, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	:@]: It appears that you have opened Pandora's box with your examples and now BilledMammal thinks it fit to post laundry lists of complaints. I'm not really party to this AE proceeding, so I would rather appreciate it if all of these off-topic shenanigans could cease and order be re-imposed. ] (]) 06:58, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	:@]: On the nitty gritty, since we're getting into this, I also only argued against the geographical rescoping on the Al-Awda talk, so that's a mischaracterisation. I simply didn't engage with any other aspect. Aside from that, you mention 8 discussions where I'm in line with the community consensus and 4 not – so a 2/3 super majority of me being in line with the community consensus. You basically have beef with me on the engineer's building, where my argument was coloured by the specific HRW finding of the event as being an standout war crime case study. Differences of opinion on the relevance of that are allowed. We must agree to disagree. You have also mischaracterised the first set of edits that you have presented from myself and Self as "restores", when they are quite clearly different edits, even if overlapping. They are nothing so simple as restores, however. You would also be better to strike the error pointed out by Zero, since merely editing the table once it has been referred to is probably going to make this back and forth more troublesome to understand for the admins (without them looking at the page history). ] (]) 08:47, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	::@]: Similar edits aren't "restores" in the conventionally understood sense, and blandly stating that it is is misleading. As for your accusations of POV pushing, there are serious conversations to be had about language use in the conflict, as RS have highlighted, but that purpose isn't served by your reductive analysis. ] (]) 09:44, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Dan Murphy====
	Last stable version, last stable version, last stable version. No consensus, no consensus, no consensus. These folks need better material. And saying a thing does not make it so. (Point being, the constant repetition of stock phrases - ones clearly at odds with the facts, in my opinion - by fly by reverting account is telling you something) ] (]) 21:46, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Nableezy====
	{{hat}}
	Umm, {{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}}, if you want to say something about me the usual thing would be to ping me. No, I am not "continuing the long term edit war", I am restoring material that already had consensus. I am not even putting in the edit that I support, I am putting in what already has an established consensus for. If you want to even pretend to give a shit about the things that matter here, like not making things up in articles, that would be great. Next time maybe ping me if you have a concern about an edit I make. If you really think my changing "fled" to "made to flee" and including "by paramilitaries and the IDF" is continuing an edit-war then feel free to justify that claim, rather than snidely assert it without so much as a the bare minimum notification that you are talking about somebody. ''']''' - 15:18, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	:So restoring the pre-RFC content is somehow continuing the edit-war that the RFC is supposed to resolve but editors are changing during the RFC. Makes sense. ''']''' - 17:47, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	:Yes, {{u|ScottishFinnishRadish}}, because being frustrated by an admin who has repeatedly attempted to put in place unjustified sanctions and who appears unwilling to look at past discussions or anything beyond the math of reverts is "about as battleground as it gets". And for the record, there ''was'' consensus on how to include the expulsions in the lead, see for example the discussion at ]. But all this is avoiding the point here. If an editor were to write "Poland lost the majority of its Jewish population due to ''various causes''" nobody would be talking about how there are two sides battlegrounding or edit-warring or any of the other superficial things you have as your sole focus. Youd call them a Nazi and kick them to the curb, and you would be right for doing so. But here, oh no, it's "battlegrounding". And oh of course I cant take off my blinders to see how one group of editors is so obviously editing in bad faith, that they are propagandizing in what is supposed to be an encyclopedia article. And let me be frank, I am not under any misimpression that I will be able to convince you, or that I am lessening the chances of you finally getting to impose the sanction you have been itching to put in place on me. But this is bullshit, you have editors engaged in utterly bad faith actions, and all you can say is "". ''']''' - 19:28, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{hab}}
	{{u|Barkeep49}} I had no intention of engaging in this request at all until an edit of mine was raised without my being notified. I only engaged at all because another editor was courteous enough to ping me to draw my attention to it. But Ill collapse this entire section and we can all get back to pretending that all reverts are the same and anybody reverting anything is edit-warring and/or battlegrounding. I wish the admins here would have learned something from ], where an admin was focused on "Civility concerns, Battleground concerns" and less so on the obvious bad-faith editing in which throw-away accounts are used to edit in direct opposition of what is supposedly the core policy of this place, one that is non-negotiable. But that lesson does not appear to have taken hold. Ah well, take whatever action you think necessary. And I mean that, Ive long thought you were one of the more judicious and considered admins here, so if you feel my presence on this project is a detriment then you should remove me from it. ''']''' - 22:06, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	:In my most decorous way, let me state that I continue to find SFR's complaints about me to be misinformed, and I cannot explain why he thinks I am the subject of this request. After he raised an edit of mine here, without pinging me or notifying me, he has then repeatedly focused on me here. While ignoring that, for example, BilledMammal has multiple times in this request made untrue statements, eg that Iskandar supported "massacre" at ] when all they opposed was BilledMammal's attempt to obfuscate the target of the bombing by removing the school that was attacked from the title, or at a discussion they opened (]) where he cautioned four editors for bludgeoning when one of those editors, again BilledMammal had nearly twice as many comments as another, me. And then BM presents, yet again, an inaccurate portrayal of what occurred after that cautioning, when he ] I had made four comments compared to his 2, when mine were either in response to the caution or questioning why BM's continued arguing was being ignored. I cant say why SFR has this seemingly uneven focus on me, at least without once again falling afoul of the decorum requirements here. Maybe its because I dared to appeal a sanction of his, who knows, but I dont know why he keeps bringing me up. Especially when the subject of this report has not even deigned to respond to it. I am unaware of when I ''engag over behavior on talk pages'' since that warning. This is the forum for bringing complaints to uninvolved administrators, so it is curious to then complain about my doing so instead of ''engaging over behavior on talk pages'' when that was the warning. ''']''' - 14:59, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	::There is zero evidence of battlegrounding on my part, and I don’t see how my objection to how an administrator is acting here is in any way related to battleground behavior in the topic area. As far as tone, after having been silently accused of edit warring without notification, I spoke harshly but I also collapsed that section once Barkeep raised it. My raiding untrue statements by another editor is likewise not grounds for an Iban. SFR has repeatedly attempted to impose sanctions on me on shaky grounds, and this just continues here. I’m barely even involved in the request and I’m the one being proposed for a topic ban lol. If SFR wants a thread about me he should open it or he should do what he did previously and ban me on spurious grounds and I can appeal it. ''']''' - 16:17, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	:my requesting that you actually treat people fairly, and not allow the one user who actually was bludgeoning that discussion to continue doing so, and my asking you if you felt an objectively dishonest portrayal of what occurred was in fact dishonest is not engaging in behavior on talk pages or battlegrounding. I was curious as to if you actually thought that comment was honest. But if we’re raising emails I’d be happy to discuss the ones you’ve sent me including the unprompted one that started with "If you want to talk outside of the restrictions and worry of Misplaced Pages and without the peanut gallery of WPO, I'm more than willing". For the record, my email to SFR said "just out of curiosity, do you think an edit like this is honest? you think that is a good faith portrayal of fact there?", linking to the same comment by BM I linked to here. That’s his definition of battlegrounding I guess. ''']''' - 16:37, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	I’d request this go to arbcom so we can examine all editors conduct here, especially if we are going to be ignoring the actual POV pushing and tendentious editing occurring in this topic area. ''']''' - 16:46, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by BilledMammal====
	Since ] requested it, I reviewed some of their and ]'s edits from the past month, and found the following tag teaming/mild edit warring, as defined above:<br>
	]:
	# {{diff2|1238137021|09:12, 2 August 2024}} Selfstudier added content to the lede
	# {{diff2|1238208636|17:45, 2 August 2024}} Iskandar323 restored it
	# {{diff2|1238552615|13:59, 4 August 2024}} Selfstudier restored it
	]:
	# {{diff2|1237770040|11:30, 31 July 2024}} Selfstudier removed content from the lede
	# {{diff2|1237990058|14:33, 1 August 2024}} Selfstudier removed it
	# {{diff2|1237994459|15:02, 1 August 2024}} Iskandar323 removed it
	They have also engaged in POV pushing. This is most obvious in "massacre" RM's since the start of the war, where different standards are applied to attacks against Palestinians and attacks against Israelis.
	* '''S''' means they supported the use of massacre
	* '''O''' means they opposed the use of massacre
	* '''N''' means they participated but didn't express a position on the use of massacre
	* Green background means the article covers attacks on Palestinians
	* Blue background means the article covers attacks on Israelis
	{| class="wikitable"
	! Article !! Selfstudier !! Iskandar323
	|- style="background-color: lightgreen;"
	| ] || '''N''' || '''S'''
	|- style="background-color: lightgreen;"
	| ] || '''S''' || -
	|- style="background-color: lightgreen;"
	| ] || - || '''S'''
	|- style="background-color: lightgreen;"
	| ] (first RM) || '''S''' || '''S'''
	|- style="background-color: lightgreen;"
	| ] (second RM) || - || '''S'''
	|- style="background-color: lightblue;"
	| ] || '''O''' || '''O'''
	|- style="background-color: lightblue;"
	| ] || - || '''O'''
	|- style="background-color: lightblue;"
	| ] || '''O''' || '''O'''
	|- style="background-color: lightblue;"
	| ] || - || '''O'''
	|- style="background-color: lightblue;"
	| ] || '''O''' || '''O'''
	|- style="background-color: lightblue;"
	| ] || - || '''O'''
	|- style="background-color: lightblue;"
	| ] || - || '''O'''
	|- style="background-color: lightgreen;"
	| ] || - || '''S'''
	|- style="background-color: lightblue;"
	| ] || '''O''' || '''O'''
	|}
	Iskandar323 in particular makes their POV pushing very clear. For example, at at ] they {{diff2|1209203357|said}} we should follow the sources, and that the arguments for massacre {{tq|rely more on independent reasoning over the nature of the event}} rather than the sourcing. However, at ] they {{diff2|said the opposite}}, that {{tq|more than 100 civilians were massacred with narry a shred of evidence of military motive in sight, making "massacre" pretty aptly descriptive}}.
	See also ], where they say we should counter systematic bias in reliable sources in relation to the use of massacre.
	Selfstudier has done similar, although it isn't as blatant; at ] they {{diff2|1227898669|said that we should only call an event a massacre}} when {{tq|the weight of sourcing actually names it as massacre}}, but at ] they {{diff2|1240251338|said the opposite}}, that while {{tq|a plurality of English language sources do not call the event a massacre}}, that we should still use the term because they see it as systematic bias.
	(I would also like to commend ] for their position in these discussions; they have frequently participated in them and have consistently taken a neutral line.) ] (]) 06:04, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	:{{ping|Zero0000}} Oh, I see what I did - I initially wrongly listed Iskandar323 as having supported and Selfstudier having not participated. I then realized I'd missed Selfstudier and {{diff2|1240588483|corrected it}}, but didn't realize Iskandar323 had not actually participated. Corrected, thank you. ] (]) 08:22, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	:{{ping|Iskandar323}} At ], all three edits added something along the lines of {{tq|It is known for and received criticism for its pro-Israel advocacy}} to the lede.
	:Regarding the massacre discussions, applying different standards - POV pushing - is disruptive even when you end up aligned with consensus. Arguably, it is even more so in those cases, as the question becomes whether POV pushing changed the result. ] (]) 09:03, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	:{{ping|ScottishFinnishRadish}} Regarding your proposals:
	:#As previously mentioned, I would support an IBAN - while I would prefer a voluntary one that expires at the end of the war, obviously the first half isn’t an option with Nableezy rejecting it.
	:#I think a comment restriction would be more effective than a word restriction. This is because the latter would limit the amount of evidence an editor can post, and sometimes it is necessary and productive to conduct systematic reviews of sources or similar - for example, while I summarized it in about one hundred words, in a recent non-PIA topic area RFC I posted 750,000 words of evidence (in my user space), so that editors could verify my claims rather than needing to take them on faith.<p>Because bludgeoning is such an issue in the topic area - many editors engage in it, and problematically I'm probably not even the worst - if this went to ArbCom I was planning to suggest a topic-wide anti-bludgeoning restriction. Specifically, that editors are limited to ten (or five, although at lower numbers issues start to occur with multi-question RFC's) comments per discussion. I would suggest/request than any anti-bludgeoning restriction imposed here use this form.<p>Alternatively, the standard anti-bludgeoning restriction imposed at ANI is to limit editors to two comments per discussion per day. I’m not a huge fan of this form, as in theory it still allows slow-bludgeoning, but it does seem to have worked for some editors, so perhaps the enforced delay is sufficient to control the behavior.
	:#I think some consideration of Iskandar’s POV pushing is also needed.
	:] (]) 16:10, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	==== Statement by Zero0000 ====
	{{To|BilledMammal}}, where did Iskandar323 support "massacre" at ]? ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 08:15, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by (username)====
	<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
	===Result concerning האופה===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
	*I don't find this, or the report above, terribly convincing. There are two sides involved in these disputes, and both are doing the same thing.
	# ] - , , , , .
	# ] - , , , , , and more going back.
	# ] - , , .
	*This doesn't actually prove anything except there is no consensus for a lot of these changes, and both sides engage in long-term edit wars for their preferred versions. We can tally up warnings and first times having edited an article, but that doesn't actually prove anything. Editors will show up at articles they have not yet edited, in fact every article that everyone has edited they had previously not edited, and huge numbers of editors have warnings and sanctions related to the topic. ] (]) 12:26, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:I was getting at Levivich's noting a {{tq|partial list: editors who have been sanctioned recently or have pending reports at AE}}. and BM. Nish has a logged warning, Bluethricecreamman has an open report. Just because editors agree with someone who has been sanctioned or has a pending report at AE doesn't mean their position on content is a problem. ] (]) 15:34, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:The discussion at ], I assume, where you, Makeandtoss, Iskander323, Nishidani and Kashmiri discussed it? I am not at all surprised that when it was noticed by an editor from the other side of the battleground that they reverted. You were still part of the edit war there, but I'll adjust my statement a bit to make it more clear how events flowed. ] (]) 15:53, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:{{u|Selfstudier}}, I'm not trying to put you on trial, but your name came up when I looked at a few of the articles in these reports so you got used as an example. What I'm trying to communicate is that the types of diffs presented by Levivich are not uncommon, and when we're dealing with relatively small groups of editors the same names are going to show up next to each other a lot. You're not on the hook for that, and I'm saying that other editors aren't either unless there is some evidence of malfeasance or bad faith editing. If we're going to start sanctioning these patterns the sanctions are going to end up widespread if applied even-handedly. ] (]) 16:25, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:I want to be clear to {{u|Selfstudier}} and {{u|Iskandar323}} that I'm not proposing sanctions, this is just to illustrate my point.
	*:# -
	*:# -
	*:# -
	*:# - , first edit to talk page of article was an hour earlier
	*:That was after a few minutes of looking. When people are active in the same topics this kind of thing is incredibly common. If we're going to ABF for these patterns then there is ''a lot'' of this going on and it should be evenly enforced. ] (]) 12:05, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:{{u|Selfstudier}}, again, not saying you're doing anything wrong, just demonstrating that if we're using the threshold of "edited the same page in support of each other without having first edited the page" than it's going to be an enormous problem.
	*:{{u|Levivich}}, those were picked at random from the editor interaction analyzer. I'm sure you'll find hundreds more examples like that, as 20% of Iskandar's 46,500 edits are to pages also edited by Selfstudier, and 60% of Selfstudier's 37,800 edits are to pages also edited by Iskandar323. People who edit in this topic area edit the same pages, and people with similar views support each other. ] (]) 12:30, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::# The UNRWA edit above
	*::#
	*::#
	*::# (part of the same dispute on settler colonialism)
	*::#
	*::#
	*::#
	*::#
	*::That is without looking particularly hard. So do we want to start sanctioning for tag-team editing? ] (]) 14:52, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::{{u|Levivich}}, you were already over the diff limit with your initial statement, and now we've gone far beyond that. I think the venue you're looking for to judge when AGF isn't necessary, how many edits to an article insulates you from tag-teaming, if newly EC editors are allowed the same privileges as established editors, what amount of poor content or content one side disagrees with justifies tag team editing, if someone who made an edit was sanctioned does that mean reverting them isn't reverting, and if there is off-site coordination among new editors in the topic, isn't AE.
	*:::If you have to provide ~35 diffs and links in your initial report and it still needs back and forth with deeper analysis it probably needs to be seen by a committee of some sort, maybe of diverse views and elected by the community to deeply analyze a wide body of evidence provided by editors addressing complex, long-running conflicts. ] (]) 18:52, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:Luckily, while this AE report is opened in part to look at edit warring at ] no one is . ] (]) 15:05, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::{{u|Nableezy}}, I didn't ping you because I was more concerned with showing that this edit war was still on-going to communicate the point that the editors reported here are not doing anything that is unusual or unexpected, and if we're going to sanction it there will be a lot of those sanctions going around.
	*::As far as your edit not being part of the long-term edit war, and instead just being a restoration of consensus, there is currently ] on that point, and there has been a large number of versions of the Nakba/expulsion sentence in the lead. The version you restored is not a consensus version.
	{{hat|Some versions of that sentence back to May 10th chosen at random}}
	*::* {{tq|The majority of the Palestinians were expelled or made to flee, by paramilitaries and the IDF, an explusion known as the Nakba.}}
	*::* {{tq|Over both phases of the war, a majority of Palestinian Arabs were expelled or fled for various reasons}}
	*::* {{tq|The next day, armies of neighboring Arab states invaded, starting the First Arab–Israeli War. A majority of Palestinians were expelled or fled due to various causes.}}
	*::* {{tq|The Palestinians were expelled or made to flee by militias and the military, a core component of the Nakba.}}
	*::* Pre-RFC start {{tq|During the war, the Palestinian population was expelled or made to flee by paramilitaries and the IDF, known as the Nakba.}}
	*::* {{tq|The war saw the expulsion and flight of most of Mandatory Palestine's predominantly Arab population, known as the Nakba. A minority remained and became Arab citizens of Israel.}}
	*::* {{tq|Primarily as a consequence of the war, there was an influx of Jews, previously living in the North Africa and the Middle East, who were expelled or fled, beginning a near total exodus of Jews living in the Muslim world.}}
	*::* {{tq|Primarily as a consequence of the war, from 1948 to 1951, 260,000 Jews migrated, fled, or were expelled from Muslim-majority countries throughout North Africa and the Middle East beginning a near total exodus of the more than 850,000 Jews living in the Muslim world, and whose descendants today constitute the largest Jewish ethnic identity group in Israel.}}
	*::* {{tq|The 1949 Armistice Agreements saw Israel's borders established over most of the former Mandate territory. The rest, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, were taken by Jordan and Egypt respectively.}}
	{{hab}}
	] (]) 17:18, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:If the issue is that a certain group of editors is tag-teaming to get around 1RR, or that people like to engage in long-term edit wars to get the article to look their own preferred way by force, wouldn't imposing individual ] restrictions be a way to stop that? Can't really edit war if you can't revert. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 15:26, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::I will note that I am not generally a fan of imposing 0RR, as there is some natural ] to Misplaced Pages's editing that is often healthy. But if there are individuals in this area who:
	*::#Write decent quality articles from the ground up;
	*::#Engage in talk page discussions productively; and
	*::#Nonetheless, have a habit of engaging in long-term edit warring in the topic area's established articles;
	*::Then, we may have a case that a 0RR would work. — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 15:30, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	* '''Warn HaOfa and Selfstudier''' for the tag-team editing at ]. Being the fourth and fifth reverts, respectively, is beyond reason, and HaOfa actually participated in an edit war over the <em>same exact content</em> two months ago. Enough already. ] (] • she/her) 03:54, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:Why this and not for edit warring? ] (]) 12:45, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::{{yo|Barkeep49}} Sorry, i meant tag-team edit warring. If there are instances of them unilaterally edit-warring, I'd be happy to lump those in. ] (] • she/her) 17:45, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::{{yo|Selfstudier}} No, I mean you. I thought you'd know that I'm referring to the edits to ] on August 10 and 11 where KlayCax removes some text, Nishidani restores it, PeleYoetz removes it, TarnishedPath restores it, HaOfa removes it, and you restore it. Looks like tag-team edit-warring to me, and not the first instance, but the third recent instance given that there were outbreaks of it in June/July. ] (] • she/her) 17:45, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::{{yo|ABHammad}} I'm not even sure how to begin to engage with "my team's edit-warring is more justified because my team was doing it in the name of stability". Edit warring is <em>destabilizing</em>. Next time, ask an admin to lock down the page and start an RfC instead of doing that. Also, no, the last stable revisions were the ones before you made your edit to the page on June 10/before KlayCax made their edit on August 10. ] (] • she/her) 17:45, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::{{tq|y team was doing it in the name of stability}} is right up there with "they've edited the page before" in terms of justification. Add a dollop of "one of them is blocked for unrelated copyright violations" and we're cruising right along. ] (]) 18:12, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::{{yo|Selfstudier}} in which case this is a continuation of the edit war over the lead sentence that began in June and has basically continued on-and-off since then. Given the extent of your participation on the talk page and at these AE threads, you were certainly aware that that edit war happened. In that case, your diff is still intentional edit-warring. ] (] • she/her) 20:51, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*{{re|Levivich}} I'm not sure {{tqq|I need to give AE an opportunity to address this before it's taken up at any other noticeboard}} is true. You could, instead, just go to the community, or, truthfully, go to ArbCom (perhaps via ARCA) since this is an area that ArbCom already has "jurisidiction" with. I will say that I think AE is pretty ill served to your desire to consider multiple editors' behaviors in relation to each other. I think both ANI and ArbCom do that better. ] (]) 19:55, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:Along those lines, that seems like we may want to ]. After all, if there is another process that would handle this exact sort of dispute better, and if AE is {{tq|ill served}} to review this evidence, why would we not just have the better process handle this? — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 12:54, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::That's what I've been saying in the past few complicated reports. ] (]) 13:41, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::I'd support – is the scope of the case the edit warring on the one page, or more broadly the battleground behavior? ] (] • she/her) 18:42, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::::The edit warring is just a symptom of the battleground behavior, so battleground behavior more broadly. We literally have, here at AE, an editor {{sup|{{small|Pinging {{u|Nableezy}}}}}} saying {{tq|If you want to even pretend to give a shit about the things that matter here, like not making things up in articles, that would be great.}} for an admin {{sup|{{small|me}}}} pointing out that they were continuing an edit war, and they've already been sanctioned for battleground editing. That's about as battleground as it gets. If no one but me is interested in sanctioning for that type of behavior then Arbcom is the route to take. ] (]) 18:52, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::::I think there are three other admins in the thread interested in curbing it (i proposed a small warning above), but i do feel that ArbCom is better at breaking down long-term behavior like this. ] (] • she/her) 21:58, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::::I'm not opposed to referring this to ArbCom; the only thing holding me back from being 100% supportive is Levivich's statement that he's prefer not ArbCom. Now we as uninvolved administrators can certainly reach a different consensus - especially given the way some non-parties have come in hot to this discussion (see my comment below) but want to note this thought before we send it along. ] (]) 21:35, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::::I will note that I find Levivich's new presentation of the material more compact and thus more helpful to reaching some conclusion here. I've looked through about half of it and I'd say only about half of what I've examined concerns me and virtually none of it is edit warring, but if those ratios carry through it will add up to a pattern of problems worth a sanction. ] (]) 02:33, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::::::Looking at the amended report, I don't find the two edits to ] and two to ] overly concerning. In the article the break is over {{tq|indigenous to ], being descended from the various inhabitants of the region over the millennia, that are culturally and linguistically ].}} and {{tq|descending from peoples who have inhabited the region of ] over the millennia, and who today are culturally and linguistically ].}}, so the sticking point was using indigenous or native. There are sources provided in the ] that are from peer reviewed papers challenging the applicability of native or indigenous. It seems consensus has been formed, however, and the edits in this case were about two months ago.
	*::::::The three edits to the lead of Israel aren't great. Long term edit warring is a problem, especially as all three edits are while there is an active RFC on the topic. Linking to an article that says {{tq|scholarly consensus today is that violent expulsions were the main factor}} rather provided that detail does appear to be intentionally burying the lead.
	*::::::The sources in ] that discuss annexation also use the phrasing {{tq|extending Israeli administration over the Golan}}, and the article says {{tq|On 14 December 1981, Israel passed the Golan Heights Law, that extended Israeli "laws, jurisdiction and administration" to the Golan Heights. Although the law effectively annexed the territory to Israel, it did not explicitly spell out a formal annexation.}} It obviously changes the framing, and the annexation phrasing looks to have been pretty stable. All that said, per the edit summary of the prior edit and their edit, it looks to have been a revert about US recognition in the lead, {{tq|Rv, US view doesnt belong in lead, its elswhere in article}} followed by {{tq|the world's leading superpower, I think it is worth a mention}}. Obviously, everyone is responsible for the full content of their edits and effects of their reverts, but this was a single edit and it appears to not have been the main thrust of the edit.
	*::::::As for {{tq|Israel's governmental seat is in its ] of ], though under international law ] is ] ] by Israel.}} versus {{tq|Israel's governmental seat is in its ] of ], though Israeli sovereignty over ] is not recognised under international law and only has ].}}, it should be summarizing the content in article, {{tq|The Golan Heights and East Jerusalem have been fully incorporated into Israel under Israeli law, but not under international law. Israel has applied civilian law to both areas and granted their inhabitants permanent residency status and the ability to apply for citizenship. The UN Security Council has declared the annexation of the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem to be "null and void" and continues to view the territories as occupied. The status of East Jerusalem in any future peace settlement has at times been a difficult issue in negotiations between Israeli governments and representatives of the Palestinians.}}
	*::::::For the settlement issue, {{tq|Israel has established settlements across the occupied territories, which is deemed illegal under international law, and has annexed East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, which is largely unrecognized internationally.}} remains the the lead. A partially duplicative paragraph, {{tq|Israel has established and continues to expand ] across the ], which is deemed illegal ], and has annexed ] and the ], which is largely unrecognized internationally. Since the 1973 ], Israel has signed peace treaties ], returning the Sinai Peninsula, and ], and into the 2020s has ]. However, ] the ] have not succeeded. Israel has been internationally criticised for its illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories, and been accused of committing ] and crimes against humanity against the Palestinians by human rights organizations and UN officials.}} was removed from the lead. The only information on the settlements that changed was the {{tq|and continues to expand}} language. Was that an issue with removing duplicate information from the lead and overlooking moving those four words to the earlier use of the same prose, or an intentional whitewashing? This was also a single edit.
	*::::::On the apartheid edit, that was being actively discussed again at an RFC that ended with ]. Is the issue editors removing something that never had consensus, or repeatedly adding it?
	*::::::That's all I got in me for now, except to say that it certainly looks like we're asking admins at AE to decide which content is right. I'm not seeing black and white NPOV violations. ] (]) 14:41, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::::::{{u|Selfstudier}}, link fixed. I formatted it like a wikilink and not an external link. :/ ] (]) 18:21, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:Levivich: the community has already shown it is unable to handle this topic area. That is why there have been four arbcom cases already. AE is not some community venue. It is instead an Arbitration Committee venue where ArbCom has delegated some of its powers to others - in this case uninvolved administrators. Those administrators saying "actually we are unable to handle this with the powers you've delegated" is not an unreasonable outcome (if not one I'd like to see yet). ] (]) 14:48, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	*{{u|Nableezy}}, ''it's all bad'', that's why I'm calling the entire thing an edit war. You said {{tq|I am restoring material that already had consensus}}, despite there never having been a consensus for that. It was the phrasing edit warred in right as the RFC started, but that doesn't give it some special status, and especially doesn't make it consensus. '''''Everyone''''' should stop edit warring, but acting like the four edits to ] in the original report are the real problem doesn't pass muster. ] (]) 17:54, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	*{{u|Nableezy}} I find your decorum here to be below what is expected of editors. I suggest you ], consider striking any statements you've made that do not meet those expectations, and adjust how you respond going forward. My understanding of why you're frustrated is what has stopped me for exercising one of the options presented there to uninvolved administrators. ] (]) 21:32, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:Thanks @] for your actions here. I'm trying to give what little time I currently have to things like this, but it's inadequate to doing a full job. And so that prevents me from having too many opinions at the moment; I hope if I spend more time I don't reach the conclusion that you need to be removed from the topic. ] (]) 02:00, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
	*{{u|Barkeep49}}, what mystical incantation do we need to etch in runes on this page to refer this to arbcom? Do we just light some candles and repeat {{tq|Arbcom, Arbcom, please take heed! More diffs and words and context we need! Restrained and ill attended is this place! Please heed us Arbcom, TAKE THE CASE!}} three times? ] (]) 11:34, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:{{u|Selfstudier}}, it's not that tag teaming is hard to pin down, it's that it is so widespread between ] that it doesn't make sense to treat reports in a vacuum. Also, ''you're'' not requesting a case, we admins are saying that these reports are all related and need to be handled in a venue suited to looking at an entire topic. ] (]) 12:04, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:Close it with that rough consensus and then fill out the paperwork at ]. I will note I haven't given up all hope here though. ] (]) 12:16, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::How would you like to move forward here? In my eyes there is POV pushing, battleground editing, and tag teaming, but it is coming from both sides. So we can a) do nothing, b) give out more stern finger waggings which are generally ineffective, c) start evenhandedly sanctioning for the reported behavior, d) kick it to the group designed to handle large, complex, multiparty disputes. In this section we have multiple editors who've already racked up warnings and sanctions but continue with the same behavior, so I don't see a or b as solutions. ] (]) 12:33, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::I think I will close this with rough consensus to send to ArbCom in around 12 hours. I understand that Barkeep has not given up all hope here, but all other admins here appear to see ArbCom as the ''best'' venue given the complexity of issues in this area, and I do see a rough consensus for such a close at this point. — <span style="background: linear-gradient(#990000,#660000)">]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub></span> 14:32, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::::<s>What is your rush RTH? I think you closing this when at least 2 of the four admins are still trying to find consensus with each other is a mistake. It's not like I'm 1 against 6 or 7 admins here. ] (]) 14:50, 16 August 2024 (UTC)</s>
	*:::::I understand that this is now a struck comment, as the objection was withdrawn, but your criticism is fair. I will try to keep this in mind going forward. — <span style="background: linear-gradient(#990000,#660000)">]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub></span> 15:22, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::My goal, since becoming re-involved at AE, has been to do C. Now you and I might disagree about what sanctions are appropriate; I think formal warnings are a sanction whereas it seems like you're characterizing it as stern finger wagging. I am not opposed to d if we get there but I would love to truly exhaust our ability to do c. I thought we had gotten there with this coupling of reports but now wonder if maybe it's not true. I'm hopeful I'll have some more time to reply to your evidence analysis today or tomorrow. And if taht doesn't happen then I'd have no objections to the referral. ] (]) 14:35, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::::I call the warnings generally ineffective because, as an example, {{u|Nableezy}} has been for years, agreed to a reduction in sanctions {{tq|with an assurance from Nableezy that they will moderate their tone and bring concerns about editor behavior to an uninvolved administrator or AE rather than engaging over behavior on talk pages.}} and here we are again with you saying {{tq|I find your decorum here to be below what is expected of editors. I suggest you review the expectations, consider striking any statements you've made that do not meet those expectations, and adjust how you respond going forward.}} Surely this is the time it won't be ineffective finger wagging. ] (]) 14:49, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::::I with draw my objection to sending this to ArbCom. Nableezy's latest comment shows the complexity and the multiple editors involved (including perhaps SFR though I don't find those accusations all that convincing) in just this complaint. Multi-party complaints (as opposed to the serial/sequential complaints Levivich has been trying) and complaints of Administrator problems enforcing conduct in the topic area are poorly served at AE and so yes this should just go to ArbCom. ] (]) 15:07, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::::::I see this as either Arbcom or:
	*::::::*I-Ban between Nableezy and BilledMammal
	*::::::*Topic ban Nableezy for continued battleground/civility/tone issues
	*::::::*BilledMammal restricted to 500 words in any ARBPIA discussion
	*::::::**Probably a few other editors too. This isn't a standard remedy so it can't be placed by an individual administrator unless we dress it up as a topic ban from any arbpia discussion where you have already used 500 words. Just without the normal bludgeoners bludgeoning and opponents arguing.
	*::::::**Maybe even ''everyone'' is limited to 500-1000 words in any ARBPIA discussion. Probably need to request that at ARCA for blanket application, but we can do this at AE for pages or discussions
	*::::::*0RR for pretty much anyone who has taken part in any of these long-term edit wars (including the subject of this report), which is going to be a lot of editors.
	*::::::I guess the benefit is we can do this without the huge time sink of arbcom with just a rough consensus. Do we want to try to do something drastic, or do we want to kick it up to Arbcom? ] (]) 15:57, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::::::I stand by my statement above that I do not think AE is well equipped to handle multi-party complaints like this. As a procedural matter now that sanctions are being considered against BM and Nableezy I will formally notify them (though obviously both are already paying attention). ] (]) 16:01, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::::::{{u|Nableezy}}, you said {{tq|I am unaware of when I engag over behavior on talk pages since that warning.}} immediately after talking about making multiple comments about editor behavior at an ARBPIA RFC, and as far as battleground editing you returned to that RFC to complain that they got the same "please disengage" as you did and made two additional comments, then emailed me about their correcting saying one reply to two replies. And that's just today. ] (]) 16:29, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::::::I agree with that assessment, and I think ArbCom would be the better route. ] (] • she/her) 21:25, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{hab}}
	==Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Lima Bean Farmer==
	<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found ]. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.''</small>
	<small>''To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections{{space}}but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small>
	; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Lima Bean Farmer}} – ] (]) 04:50, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	; Sanction being appealed : {{section link|Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_enforcement_log/2020#c-Dreamy_Jazz-2020-12-19T12:38:00.000Z-American_politics_2}}
	; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|Dreamy Jazz}}
	; Notification of that administrator :
	===Statement by Lima Bean Farmer===
	I am looking to appeal a topic ban on post-1992 American politics. These case would be more open and shut if there weren’t a more recent edit to this ban. The original ban was over 3 years ago for post-1932 American politics but was changed to post-1992 American politics over a year ago. I would like to edit in this section a bit more freely, and I have not faced any sanctions or other administrative action since then. I have made large structural edits to pages such as ] and ], demonstrating my ability to work with other editors to come to consensus while also using reliable sources when and where appropriate. In summary, since my last appeal, I have demonstrated more frequent Misplaced Pages editing that follows guidelines, helps productive editing, and understanding consensus for the past year. Having knowledge in the topic of post-1992 politics, having this topic ban lifted would allow me greater freedom for productive editing. Thank you for your decision in advance! ] (]) 04:50, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
	:I am not sure if it is appropriate to reply here, but I would like to address that the reason I was indefinitely blocked was for socking. I do acknowledge that using an alternative account most times, but especially to evade a ban or block is wrong. I can assure it won’t happen again and I can assure that it hasn’t happened in the past 3+ years. Please let me know if this addresses your concern. Thank you ] (]) 13:00, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::I believe I already spoke on the part of editing (please let me know if you’d like me to further clarify), but the indefinite ban was due to socking. I will avoid this issue by never editing with another account, especially to evade or bypass a block or ban. I can assure that I haven’t done this in the past 3+ years since the ban and can assure you that I won’t do it again in the future. ] (]) 19:56, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:::], I had to go back and check but it was a 3 month ban for “disruptive editing”. I believe this was due to a high volume of editing in this topics at that time and my edits/experience not being up to par. A mix of things caused this I believe, including edit warring/not using talk pages appropriately, not using edit summaries regularly, and adding unsourced content. All of these are things I have demonstrated at least some level of proficiency in over the past 3 years (although I am most definitely still learning a lot here) and have shown a commitment to becoming a better more productive editor. Thank you ] (]) 20:42, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
	===Statement by Dreamy Jazz===
	Based on a quick look from their contributions and what others have said at ], it seems that Lima Bean Farmer has been editing constructively elsewhere.
	However, the text of this appeal does not directly address the reasons why the indefinite topic ban was placed. I would, personally, like to see some acknowledgement of what led up to the topic ban and a commitment to not repeat the mistakes of the past.
	For example, in their last appeal they said {{tq|please don’t hold a grudge}} when asked about a comment they made while appealing their block. I would like to be sure that Lima Bean Farmer understands that we need to see that they have changed, and therefore we are not holding a grudge but instead want to be sure that the topic ban is no longer necessary. ] <sup>'']'' &#124; '']''</sup> 06:35, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	:As to socking, I have not run a check. ] <sup>'']'' &#124; '']''</sup> 06:36, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	===Statement by (involved editor 1)===
	===Statement by (involved editor 2)===
	===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Lima Bean Farmer ===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	====Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)====
	====Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)====
	===Result of the appeal by Lima Bean Farmer===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request (once there is a consensus) use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}} if at AE, or an archive/discussion box template if on AN, inform the user on their talk page and note it in the contentious topics log below where their sanctions is logged. -->
	*I'm generally amenable to appeals made after a few years, but I'm interested in {{u|Dreamy Jazz}}'s thoughts, as well as if there has been ]. ] (]) 12:22, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:{{u|Lima Bean Farmer}}, can you please explain why the indefinite topic ban was placed and how you will avoid the same issues in the future? ] (]) 18:25, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
	*:And what were the issues that led to the original topic ban? ] (]) 22:29, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
	==Lemabeta==		==Lemabeta==
	{{hat|{{u|Lemabeta}} is indefinitely topic-banned from the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 15:34, 22 August 2024 (UTC)}}
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>		<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
	===Request concerning Lemabeta===		===Request concerning Lemabeta===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Vanezi Astghik}} 10:35, 16 August 2024 (UTC)		; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|EF5}} 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Lemabeta}}<p>{{ds/log|Lemabeta}}</p>		; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Lemabeta}}<p>{{ds/log|Lemabeta}}</p>
Line 2,373:		Line 285:
	<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->		<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]		;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
			<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
			; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
			<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
			# - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
			# - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.
	;] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it:
	#: Reverts to their POV ]. The problem with these are: “Armeno-Georgian” or Mamikonian roots is supported by the sources in the article (including 3 in the lede), yet the user removes the “Armeno” part and adds doubt to Mamkionian roots for no reason (second time now), engaging in ] and ].
	#: Removes content based on “outdated” source Brosset, 1849. FYI, it's the same source that's used for Georgian origins ; apparently it's outdated for one thing, but can stay for another.
	#: Adds “cn” templates to existing sources and adds unexplained doubt.
	#: Removes material that's in the body; this after being specifically for selective POV-pushing in the previous edits and shown an additional modern ] in the same comment (which was to the article), RS that literally supported the info they removed.
	#: Another ] and ] push by changing sourced material under the guise of “WP:NEUTRALITY violation”. If you read the book's page, it literally says; “”.
	#: ] Georgian ] with an “Agritourism guide” book despite the lede already having 2 sources, including a far better book from Oxford University that specializes in cheeses and states (including with a quote already in the ref); “”.
	#: Reverts to their undue POV now with ] Georgian government source; this comes after they were the quote from the better secondary source that’s in the lede already which doesn’t support their POV.
	#: ] removes any mention of Armenian from 1st paragraph and adds unexplained doubt, with OR opinionated summary “''Armenocentric article''”.
	#: Removes any mention of Armenian and adds ] doubt, no explanation.
	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):		;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
			<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
	*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on
			*Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :		; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
			I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	Lemabeta has been pushing heavy Georgian ] in Armenia-Georgia articles, while downplaying Armenia/Armenians, ] changes of sourced material / adding WP:OR doubt to sources, disregard of sources, or removal of sourced material. I think it’s time AE reviews Lemabeta’s behavior; I’ve tried to talk with them but to no avail, usually they revert and restore their original problematic edits, or push new POV.
			:On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	:Makes personal attacks during AE; .
			:(Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	::Adds more unexplained ] doubt to a ] during AE.
			:: <small>Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. ] (]/]) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)</small>
	:::Response to : I don't think saying the user seemed eager to be blocked was a threat as the user was edit-warring , ''during'' AE despite not having consensus for changing stable version or adding weaker sources that were directly on talk, thus violating ].
			::(RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	::::I believe comment is content related which is intended for talk pages.
	:::::Lemabeta claims , but "cn" tags on everything in section (even when mostly sourced) ''excluding'' the Georgian origins paragraph which had ''the most outdated'' source; funny how the only paragraph they "didn't look" suits their POV. And even after, when I better (modern/expert) source and told them about it , they still removed content sourced by it and then put doubt on it . ] (]) 03:04, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :		; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
	<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->		<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
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	====Statement by Lemabeta====		====Statement by Lemabeta====
			Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --] (]) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	1)Cyril Toumanoff work is cited in the source, while Cyril himself never says that the Tumanishvili house was an Armenian house, but rather he says that the origins of Tumanishvili house go back to Mamikonians who Cyril considers to have originated in Georgia specifically in ] region, he in his work mentions that the root of the last name Mamikonian - Mamik comes from the Georgian language theory which is also accepted by the famous Armenian historian - ], they both connected the roots of Mamikonians and therefore roots of Tumanishvili to Georgian - ] .<ref>Армения в эпоху Юстиниана: Политическое состояние на основе Нахарского строя, СПб., 1908, cт. 402-404 (Nicholas Adontz, Armenia in the Period of Justinian: The political Conditions Based on the Naxarar System. Trans. into Eng. with expanded notes, bibliography, and appendices by Nina G. Garsoian, Lisbon, 1970)</ref> <ref>(Toumanoff 1963, p. 211, n. 23.).</ref> Which was deleted by the individual reporting me.
			:Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are '''related but distinct concepts'''. An ''ethnographic group'' refers to a '''community of people''' defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, ''cultural heritage'' refers to the *''practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past''. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
	2-3-4)The Pro-Armenian POV pushing is visible from the 2nd reference link he inserted---> as you can see the he wrote that the ''"The Albano-Armenian theory is mostly accepted today, Adarnase being the first independent sovereign of Hereti, which was most likely an Armenian territory beforehand and followed the ] of Albanians and Armenians instead of the ] of the Bagrationis"'' meanwhile adding a source of Brosset, Marie-Félicité who lived in 19th century, by what standards is this considered as a "modern historians" - plural. Moreover, theory of Brosset is denounced today as he wasn't aware of the medieval works of historians attributing Adarnase of Hereti to Chosroid dynasty of Caucasus, which i inserted in the newer changes, which was completely deleted by the individual reporting me.therefore theory that isn't accepted by most, shouldn't be in the leading.
			:So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. ] (]) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
			::In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) '''emerges from''' ethnographic groups but '''does not define the group itself'''. ] (]) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	While ] Georgians are still presentHeretians or Ingiloys descendants of a legendary Heros, he keeps changing the Kingdom of Hereti ethnic affiliation to "South Caucasian" to a broader term than Georgian is. Meanwhile in modern historiography Kingdom of Hereti is considered as a Georgian monarchy
			:::I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. ] (]) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	5) reference which he inserted --- Since when is NPOV wording of a sentence considered as Armenophobia? But he wants to make it look like Armenian and Alan were the only reason of success of Kingdom of Georgia.
			::::I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. ] (]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	6)-7)
	Now let's talk about the deletion of sourced material by the individual reporting me. Whole sourced etymology section was removed, because it didn't fit the pro-Armenian narrative he's pushing. Moreover, on Chechili geographical indication is registered in Georgia, protecting the origins of Chechili, which i wrote according to the articles such as ]. Chechili origins and GI are protected in more than 30 countries.
	8)Melikishvili-Melikov was never known as-Melikyan.Melikov was a russified form of Melikishvili after it was written by ] as part of Georgian nobility in ]<ref>{{in lang|ru}} Stanislav Vladimirovich Dumin. Pyotr Grebelsky. ''The Noble Houses of the Russian Empire''. ], Russia: 1994. Думин С. В., Гребельский П. Х. Дворянские роды Российской Империи. — Москва, 1994</ref>
	9)] violation by him ''"So you have '''nothing else to do''' but to edit war again after posting a ridiculous ] '''rant''' on a clear ]"'' also violations are seen here by using offensive language
	::"if you could read" isn't an insult. It's same as "If you may" or to politely ask someone. ] (]) 15:10, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	::] (]) 15:13, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	::: also the threatening to get me blocked "Seems like you're just eager to get blocked ot topic-banned" ] (]) 10:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::<small>In reply to Rosguill's initial comment</small> I simply didn't look at the sources of other sentences due to the busy schedule involving my masters degree exams. Now that i am aware of the poorly written article, i will take my part in and contribute to the richening of Adarnase Sumbatashvili page, especially because i am a direct descendant of his paternal line. ] (]) 17:08, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
	*::<small>In reply to Rosguill's comment</small> So it's better to have an unargumentative and a provocational claim stated as an absolute fact in an article than to delete it? It should have been discussed in a talk page if there was something wrong with my edit instead of accusing me and reporting me of anything firstly.
	Moreover, in the talk page ] he had a problem over Kingdom of Hereti being refered to as a Georgian kingdom, thats where the problem lies, thats why he was writing King as "South Caucasian" and Kingdom as "South Caucasian" kingdom. If you want to topic ban me, do it. But my honor in front of god is clean and you can not change that--] (]) 07:58, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{reflist-talk}}
	====Statement by Spinney Hill====
	It is possible that this cheese is traditionally made in both Armenia and Georgia or that each country claims to be the origin. Something similar may be the case with ], which is certainly made in Switzerland and France although this is not quite reflected in the wp article on that cheese. See the following source Larousse gastronomique p534 English edition published by Hamlyn (London) 1988 translated from the 1984 French edition.ISBN 0 600 32390 0 More on this source later. .I do not have the sources OUP or the Tbilisi equivalent relied on by the two editors so I cannot comment. I have not seen any other articles on Armenian or Georgian subjects they may have clashed on. The online sources are inconclusive. At an early stage in the argument I put in a piece based on a British Government source showing that Britain recognised a kind of chechill was made in Georgia. I also found a general source which showed it was "a European and Central Asian cheese" suggesting it was made anywhere and everywhere from the west of Ireland an Portugal to Mongolia. I put a sentence in mentioning this but I am considering withdrawing this as it does not seem accurate. I am a cheese lover but I have never seen or tasted it in UK where I live nor any of the other western or central European countries I have been to (even Greece) The only other sources my Google search revealed were cheese selling sites which revealed the cheese was also made in US, Turkey (I think), Bulgaria.and South Africa!
	I have searched my copy of Larousse gastronomique-see above. The article on cheese does not mention chechil, nor does it mention Georgia or Armenia. Chechill does not have its own article as do many cheeses such as Gruyere, Stilton and Gorgonzola, nor do Armenia or Georgia. I also searched Russia as this is a 1984 book and both countries were part of the USSR . Here it says Georgia was home to a hard cheese called tuchouri.. No cheese is mentioned for Armenia. The only other "Russian" cheese mentioned is Sovietski which has its own article and which presumably is either no longer made or has been renamed..
	I think both parties have shown intemperate, but both have made some valid points and surely a compromise article should be arrived at showing that the cheese is made in both countries. I am not sure if an origin can be stated with accuracy. ] (]) 14:29, 18 August 2024 (UTC) I think Tbillisi University is quite capable of having an independent unbiased publishing arm. It is no longer part of the USSR or even Russia.] (]) 14:34, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by (username)====		====Statement by (username)====
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	*<!--		*<!--
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			* I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under ] from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". ] (] • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	{{u|Vanezi Astghik}}, you're at about 670 words. Please trim to 500, and consider whether you'd like to save some words for future replies. {{u|Lemabeta}}, you're right at the limit; do not respond further. Both of you can request an extension, but I wouldn't recommend it at this time. ] (] / ]) 03:06, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
			*:To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:<br><nowiki>;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]</nowiki><br><nowiki><!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---></nowiki> ] (]/]) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	*While at first blush I was tempted to say that this was just a content dispute and should be resolved via RfC, I am concerned by Lemabeta's responses. With regard to point 2 in particular, . While it's valid to contest the validity of a 19th century source, it is glaring that this source already comprises 2/3 of the citations in the article, including, as noted in the initial report, the specific claims of Bagratoni/Georgian heritage. It's hard to assume good faith of the objections to the sourcing of other claims to these same sources. I'm also dissatisfied with Lemabeta's response listed as "6-7", as, irrespective of the merits of the underlying edits, in this context Lemabeta's addition of content could be taken as the continuation of an edit war for a matter actively, so accusing Vanezi of {{tq|deletion of sourced material}} seems a bit off base--at this juncture, adding the material was not appropriate: it should have been discussed, and potentially resolved via RfC if a consensus could not be reached between the two of you and other editors watching the article. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 16:06, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
			*{{tq| Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed"}} @]: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. ] (]/]) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	*:{{u|Lemabeta}}, at AE replies are not threaded (except occasionally between admins); new comments should be placed in your own section (I have moved the substantive portion of yours already as a courtesy). You're also a bit over your word limit--rather than request that you retract or rephrase, I'm just going to issue {{u|Vanezi Astghik}} a commensurable 50-word extension so that you're both allowed the same amount. Please do not reply further in this case unless addressed directly for comment <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 22:14, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
			*:Note that I've deleted ] as a clear G5 violation. I think ] is a bit more of a questionable G5. ] (]/]) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	*::Having now actually reviewed the content of Lemabeta's response, I don't find this explanation persuasive at all given the length of the article at the time and the position of the content edited vs other content that had previously been the crux of the dispute. And even if it were persuasive, it would still be a violation of the ] instruction to edit ''carefully''--if you're so rushed that you overlook such an obvious issue with your edit, you shouldn't be editing this topic. I'd appreciate other admins' input, but am currently leaning toward a topic ban on history of the Caucasus, including the history of its cultural heritage, broadly construed. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 22:40, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
			*:Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared&nbsp;... traditions" and "shared&nbsp;... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". ] (]/]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
	*:::I agree, although possibly only an article-space topic ban, leaving them an allowance to engage on talk pages, as there is no evidence of talk page disruption given. That said, bespoke sanctions of that sort seldom work, and create more work for the others in the topic area, so I'm also fine with the standard topic ban. ] (]) 18:32, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
			*:@]: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. ] (]/]) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
			*:@]: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. ] (]/]) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
			*:@]: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. ] (]/]) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
			*:@]: They were "reviously given&nbsp;... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. ] (]/]) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
			* {{re|Lemabeta}} Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words {{tqq| highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity}}. There's a reason we use the words "]" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?){{pb}}This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
			*{{u|EF5}}, I don't understand your {{tq|"Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above"}} statement, can you please explain what it refers to? ]? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
			:That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by ]. I'll AGF that they ''were'' accidental, but OTOH, they surely ''ought'' to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? ] &#124; ] 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
			::{{u|EF5}}, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are ], and the block log only logs blocks. ] &#124; ] 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
			*It seems that the general consensus here is to treat this as a final warning, and Lemabeta has acknowledged it as such. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within the next day or so, I will close as such. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 01:16, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
			== GokuEltit ==
	:Just based on the diffs coming since the awareness notice, I'm seeing actionable POV-pushing. The legalese OR at places like ] is disruptive enough that I'd favor a standard topic ban, though I'm happy to see it kept as narrow as Rosguill's suggestion. It is reflective of the problem that Lemabeta has worsened their word limit violation despite the direct instructions from myself and Rosguill. ] (] / ]) 23:13, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
			{{hat|Issues on the Spanish Misplaced Pages will need to be handled there; the English Misplaced Pages has no authority or control over what happens on the Spanish project. This noticeboard is only for requesting enforcement of English Misplaced Pages arbitration decisions. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 22:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC) }}
	::@], @], I’m not sure we’re interpreting my proposal the same way. My thinking was that the scope needs to be “Caucasus”, rather than Georgia or Armenia, because the pattern of editing suggests to me that if banned from those topics, they would likely continue similar disruption by editing to remove the claims of other neighboring culture groups that compete with Georgia’s. I included the extra clause about “history of its cultural heritage” as I anticipate that without such a stipulation we’ll see a breaching attempt at an article like ] with the argument that it’s “not history”. While of course such a move could be sanctioned (although in my experience more likely than not it would result in just a final stern warning), getting ahead of it now would save us some wikilawyering. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 12:57, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
			I was blocked from Misplaced Pages for ignoring the formatting of a table, I edited an article wrong, Bajii banned me for 2 weeks, but it didn't even take 1 and Hasley changed it to permanent, I tried to make an unban request, they deleted it and blocked my talk page. I asked for help on irc, an admin tried to help me make another unblock request, but the admin jem appeared and told me that I was playing the victim and banned me and expelled me from irc. I just want to contribute to the platform ] (]) 20:11, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
	:::That's how I interpreted it. I'd prefer that over an article-only ban. ] (] / ]) 13:48, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
			:{{ping|GokuEltit}} This is a complaint about Spanish Misplaced Pages - see ], where you have (). Your block affects Spanish-language Misplaced Pages - it does not affect English-language Misplaced Pages.<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">--] ]</span> 20:27, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
	::::], is this option amenable to you, at least as a second choice? ] (] / ]) 12:28, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
			:You also had some blocks on Commons, but they have expired.<sup></sup><span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">--] ]</span> 20:30, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
	:::::Yeah, I'm fine with that. ] (]) 12:53, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{hatb}}
	==Bajaria - 2==
	{{hat|Blocked by me for one week for ECR violations. ] (]) 18:14, 19 August 2024 (UTC)}}
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
	===Second request concerning Bajaria===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|The Kip}} 21:20, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Bajaria}}<p>{{ds/log|Bajaria}}</p>
	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ARBPIA ECR, again
	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
	See the case still on this page above, but ]. They received a two-day block after multiple warnings, and it subsequently took them three days to go right back to editing in the area:
	#
	#
	; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
	# by {{yo|Theleekycauldron}} for ARBPIA ECR violations, covered in the aforementioned/above case.
	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	Copied from above:
	* Initial CTOP notice given .
	* ] given .
	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
	As mentioned in the first case, Bajaria was given the CTOP notice on 4 August, given the ARBPIA welcome template and an additional warning by myself on 10 August, was aware and responded to the case above, and was blocked for the ECR violations. That they went right back to them, and that they were overly confrontational/didn't seem to acknowledge the repeated warnings that they aren't allowed to be editing in the ARBPIA area at the initial report, makes me wonder if ] may come into play. Again, this really is a shame, because from their contribs it seems they could be legitimately productive if they properly worked towards ] status - they just don't seem to get that ECR is a hard-line rule. ] ] <span style="color:#C8102E;"><small><sup>(])</sup></small></span> 21:20, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
	.
	===Discussion concerning Bajaria===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	====Statement by Bajaria====
	====Statement by (username)====
	<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
	===Result concerning Bajaria===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
	*Blocked a week. ] (]) 21:28, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{hab}}		{{hab}}
	==Peckedagain==		==Boy shekhar==
	{{hat|{{u|Peckedagain}} is indefinitely topic banned from gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, broadly construed. ] (]) 17:39, 21 August 2024 (UTC)}}
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>		<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
	===Request concerning Peckedagain===		===Request concerning Boy shekhar===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Raladic}} 22:21, 17 August 2024 (UTC)		; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Daniel Quinlan}} 06:34, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
	; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Peckedagain}}<p>{{ds/log|Peckedagain}}</p>		; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Boy shekhar}}<p>{{ds/log|Boy shekhar}}</p>
	<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->		<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]		;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
	<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->		<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :		; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
	<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->		<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
			*{{diff2|1268704307|This edit}} violates the topic ban because it is in the topic area. It's also based on an unreliable source and the section header includes a derogatory term.
	# Edit-warring with continuous POV pushing as warned by ] on their talk page
	# More POV pushing and completely changing the prose of the lead making it appear as if it is contentious beyond just the UK. Reverted by ]
	# and then they just reverted it again, placing their POV there
	# more edit-warring of previously content by ]
	# insertion of the very same editorialized edits they were warring over on the other article above, again POV pushing
	# Deletion of large swaths of well supported RS
	# Adding undue content trying to whitewash ], violating NPOV, UNDUE
	# Again, reversion against consensus of adding coatrack NPOV of prior undo from another user, by ]
	# And now pushing their POV on another article without discussion, after having been ] and having responded to the AE here.
	# - The user has now started ]ing people who may share their views to this AE discussion
	# NPA accusation ], the lead of ] clearly supports that it was commissioned for policies of the country
	# BLP vio, defamation (was REVDEL'd)
	# More POV pushing, it's getting pretty wild - can we strike a lot of this after enforcement?
	# Second time making the same BLP vio on defamation (] by admin)
	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
	*]
	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
	<!-- Add any further comment here -->
	The editor appears to be a ] that joined several months ago, coinciding with the UK's release of the ], which has been hailed by ] organizations and the user has continuously tried to push anti-trans content in multiple articles since joining. They will often make far ranging changes without actual consensus that had to have been reverted by multiple users.
	At this point with the latest swath of bad edits that I've linked above that occurred over just the last few days, which were the final straw of why I'm now bringing this to AE (there would be many more that could be pulled up). I don't think this editor is making useful contributions to the GENSEX CTOP area, as they require countless reversions and corrections, so I'm requesting a Topic ban to stop the unconstructive editing of the user.
	(On a side note, while this user has been particularly egregious, ever since the UKs release of the Cass Review, there has been a considerable uptick of anti-trans POV pushing happening on various articles, with some editors pushing these views often ]ing on it, so as someone recently mentioned at ANI, there may very well be a time for a new ArbCom case to help curtail this anti-trans POV pushing that is becoming very ].)
	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
	<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
	<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	===Discussion concerning Peckedagain===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	====Statement by Peckedagain====
	'''edited 21 Aug - after Radalic's point 12 & 14'''
	* Radalic has reverted my posts on Cal Horton talk - root cause was a quote from another Talk page: both reverts did not state this.
	* see my ]
	Re the points:
	* 1- @Licks-rocks has since praised my edits on that '''
	* 7 The UKCP is a credible professional body: I quoted directly: '''"exploratory therapy must not be conflated with conversion therapy which seeks to change or deny a person’s sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Conversion therapy as so defined is harmful and must not be practised'''" Is that whitewashing ?
	* 2 my edit is pulling up relevant detail from the page: before my edit the lead seemed to minimise that not all organisations supported puberty blockers. Radalic reverted, but could have engaged on Talk at the same time
	* 4 after that reversion I opened a section on the Talk page, to invite comment on the importance of the UKCP statement. You have not given even 12 hours for Snokalok, or yourself, to share views there
	* 6 Updated for: DanielRigal. Content was transferred to the PP page, apart from text stating what PP is. I checked now and I apologise, I did lose one sentence, starting: "They are also used in specific cases of hormone-sensitive cancers..."
	In reply to "user's edits have mostly been unhelpful" by CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath: please see ] of constructive work, that took some time
	:In reply to new points:
	:* 8 - Ralidic also reverted positive work I did on the page - ]
	:* But regards the James Esses case, I am at fault: I now realise it was inappropriate for the Cass page, even though the UKCP statement referred to Cass in their opening line.
	:* 9 - Yes I am at fault: I didn't read carefully enough that I was being invited to use the Talk page, not the page. I have now done that.
	:* 10: as the diff shows -the bulk of my comment was praising editors of all persuasions and invited them to help on another page.
	:: '''Is Raladic coming with clean hands''' to this issue? In the Talk page, they yesterday stated a view that has been many times in Talk shown to be misleading, to be wrongly undermining of what Cass actually is: "The government of one nation has issued a review for use of policies in that country. That is the purpose of the Cass Review, not more, not less." That seems to be a rut they are in, where they are at odds with the consensus of the cass page editors.
	::: Because the Cass review included all worldwide evidence: although it was commissioned by one country, its scientific findings on PB evidence is valid to all.
	:: '''Is ] coming with clean hands?''' - they are being , and by me for
	====Statement by DanielRigal====
	I have not been following this closely but I saw the diff of the big revert, checked the history, and yeah, it looks like several days of edit warring in an attempt to add POV and remove other material from the ] article by a (more-or-less) SPA. The big diff is 12.2KB but only ~8.5KB went into ] so plenty of material would have disappeared had it not been reverted. Furthermore, moving it all into Precocious puberty doesn't make sense, as some of the material that was moved relates to the blockers in general and is not all specific to precocious puberty. The whole point of having a separate article about the blockers is to cover the medications in detail and leave ] to focus on the condition itself, covering the blockers briefly, maybe with a little overlapping content but not too much. I feel that moving so much material about puberty blockers out of the article ''about puberty blockers'' has the effect of creating a void of factual medical information in that article, a void that can then be filled up with even more coverage of the trans related political "controversies" instead. That is not what we want in a medical article!
	I had a quick look at Peckedagain's other edits. was their very first edit which seems surprisingly advanced for a first edit. Maybe they edited anonymously before but clearly they had prior experience. Only a ''very'' small proportion of their edits are on topics other than transgender issues. Most of the edits I looked at showed signs tendentious editing to some degree. I think it is fair to call them an SPA.
	I believe that a topic ban is justified. --] (]) 02:20, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath====
	I haven't been following this too closely however I recently interacted with the user at ]. I'm not super familiar with the whole arbitration process on Misplaced Pages so please mistake any knowledge gaps here. Based on my interactions with the user it seems that they have very fixed beliefs on the topic of transgender healthcare and those views seem to be getting in the way of them making constructive edits. Several users have taken the time to explain to them why some of their edits have been unhelpful and despite this, they continue to make similar edits. I think a topic ban is appropriate here as the user's edits have mostly been unhelpful and they don't seem very open to changing how they contribute. ] (]) 02:41, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
	The purpose of my statement was not to say that you have not made any quality contributions to Misplaced Pages; my point was that if we were to look at all of your contributions to Misplaced Pages and weigh them as being either helpful or unhelpful, the majority of your contributions would fall under the unhelpful category. ] (]) 01:14, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
	I didn't plan on updating my statement but I think really shows the user's real intentions here and their clear lack of a neutral POV. I do see that an admin has weighed in on the topic but it doesn't seem like a conclusion has been reached yet. ] (]) 21:55, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Licks-rocks====
	Since I've been mentioned here twice now, I'll inform the court that I have seen this. Not much to add, besides that I concur this is a ] issue and that I have advised Pecked on their talkpage to edit in other areas of the wiki to build some experience. There's definitely some ]-symptoms here as well. --] (]) 23:02, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by (LunaHasArrived)====
	I wasn't going to comment here because I thought everything I would say has been said but I think this users reaction to being bought to ae has increased their more problematic editing. As well as this one particular pov pushing diff # caught my attention and was the main reason to comment. I really think the diff speaks for itself. I truly think pecked can be a productive editor and they have been praised for good editing previously.
	] (]) 21:50, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by Nosferattus====
	Peckedagain's edit history shows a pattern of POV-pushing on issues related to transgender health care. Their editing on this topic is not in line with the guidelines at ], particularly adherence to ], so a topic ban may be in order. ] (]) 01:42, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by (username)====
	<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
	===Result concerning Peckedagain===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
	* The edit warring is almost enough for a topic ban on its own, and the POV pushing found with extensive quotation certainly isn't a good look. I think some experience in general editing before they're allowed to continue in GENSEX is probably a good idea. ] (]) 18:40, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
	:* Agreed. We really don't need another POV-pushing SPA in this area, it's crowded enough with them already. ] 10:25, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
	{{hab}}
	==Johnrpenner==
	<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
	===Request concerning Johnrpenner===
	; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Tgeorgescu}} 23:16, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
	; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Johnrpenner}}<p>{{ds/log|Johnrpenner}}</p>
	<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
	;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
	<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
	; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
	<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
	#{{diff2|1241571374}} 21 August 2024&mdash;violates ] by immunizing ] from ] through performing ] (seeks to reject the label of pseudoscience through attempting to make it look like a ]&mdash;but not according to any ])
	#a lot of previous edits at the same article, 21 August 2024, see e.g. {{diff2|1241567174}}, having the edit summary {{tq|cutting like a knife between physics and metaphysics}}
	; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :		; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
	<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->		<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
			*{{diff2|972891251|Here}} is the topic ban for {{tpq|persistent insertion of ], use of unreliable sources or no sources at all, and ]}}.
	;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):		;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
	<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->		<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
	*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on {{diff2|1221891274}} 2 May 2024 (see the system log linked to above).		*Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on by {{admin|Doug Weller}}.
			*Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on (see the system log linked to above).
	; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :		; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
	<!-- Add any further comment here -->		<!-- Add any further comment here -->
			*I've edited the article so I am involved. ] (]) 06:34, 11 January 2025 (UTC)
	*About ] at ]: I did not Google Mr. Penner, I have Googled my own username. There is no policy against "doxxing" my own username. ] (]) 23:30, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
	*I even reported it at ], and nobody complained that it were ]. ] (]) 23:35, 21 August 2024 (UTC)
	* A more nuanced view of how I see Anthroposophy: {{diff2|1241185089}}
	* {{tq|attacks against users like myself}}&mdash;if you mean the reports mentioned above: I simply did not know that you were a Misplaced Pages editor. Otherwise, reporting you to arbitration enforcement is not a personal attack. ] (]) 03:32, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
	* Misplaced Pages is a collaborative environment&mdash;up to a point. We don't seek to "collaborate" with those who breach our ] with impunity. More to the point: Johnrpenner is violating ] such as ] and ]. If he thinks I'm wrong, he should ] mainstream ] to that extent. Merely giving us his own opinion won't do. Again: his assertion that the label of pseudoscience is a category mistake, is solely based upon his own opinion. He did not ] anything to that extent. Even if his POV were the unvarnished truth, he still does not have ] to that extent. ] (]) 06:47, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
	* I'm not a villain, nor a ]-warrior. I'm simply a popularizer of mainstream ]. Of course, some people are terrified by it. But that's what Misplaced Pages is for. A lot of people say they love mainstream academic learning. But that no longer holds when it's mainstream academic learning about their own religion. If their religion gets creamed at Misplaced Pages, it does not mean it's because of some villain, nor because of malfeasance. Malcontents should not blame me for what full professors write. ] (]) 03:58, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
	* About "critical" sources, e.g. from ]: another editor stated that Anthroposophy isn't a religion because there was a court case in California which settled that issue. So, such statement made me curious about what real scholars (of all stripes and colors) are saying about Anthroposophy being a religion. ] (]) 06:04, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
	* {{re|theleekycauldron}} Until May 2024, I had no idea that Penner is a Misplaced Pages editor. In respect to what you say: I would accept a restriction of 1RR and a limit of 500 words per topic. Also, you have to consider that these Anthroposophists overtly stated they want me banned from Anthroposophy, so, while they knew they stand no chance in respect to their own edits, they were merely flamebaiting. Anthroposophists are generally speaking highly educated people, so if they behave as too dumb for their credentials, it is a token they are merely acting a show. Playing dumb and employing vicious libel (flamebait) is justified, according to them, since they are defending the public image of Anthroposophy. I mean: for a university-educated {{tq|Lead Technical Writer}} it would be easy-peasy to understand they're breaching website policy. And if I lambasted them for failing to do so, my criticism was genuine and to the point. What do they stand to lose, here at Misplaced Pages? A bunch of disposable accounts. Since both Johnrpenner and the previous Anthroposophist at ] are extremely fond of performing ]&mdash;I don't think that's just a coincidence. When multiple accounts misunderstand Misplaced Pages in the same way, we may suspect they're ]. What the two have in common? They care for the public image of Anthroposophy, through rejecting claims of racism and of pseudoscience, and both have a cavalier attitude to ]. Another lead: SamwiseGSix has edited ], and I have private evidence about Johnrpenner and VxWorks. But only by going by what Johnrpenner has posted upon his own user page, it is not an unreasonable conclusion. ] (]) 12:36, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
	* {{re|Ealdgyth}} It was not intended as mockery. I don't think he is unintelligent, and if he appears as unintelligent, that's for flamebaiting purposes (just to make me angry). ] (]) 12:36, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
	* Full disclosure: there was an off-wiki hounding campaign against me, see , , and ]&mdash;which I now came to see as flamebaiting. I was reacting to such attacks, this explains my behavior. ] (]) 01:58, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
	; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :		; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
			*
	<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
	*{{diff2|1241572352}} 21 August 2024
	<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->		<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
			===Discussion concerning Boy shekhar===
	===Discussion concerning Johnrpenner===
	<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>		<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
	====Statement by Johnrpenner====		====Statement by Boy shekhar====
	after making additions to the 'Anthroposophy' article — user tgeorgescu deleted / reverted my edits, and so i took it on to the talk page, asking him: instead of just deleting a whole bunch of stuff, why not engage in something more constructive? he did not engage in a friendly fashion, and quickly shut me down, and launched this Arbitration request against me.
	if i were writing an article on the phenomenolgy of colour — i would expect to see criticism and debate — but i would also expect to see some effort in improving the article — doing what wikipedia does — helping provide some sense of the topic, which covers a neutral and informed point of view.
	user tgeorgescu has expended considerable effort solely directed towards attacking and finding sources discrediting Anthroposophy (hundreds upon hundreds of edits.. almost as if it were some sort of personal vendetta). if one sees only efforts directed at this — then i might also question how neutral things are — when i dont see as much effort towards contributing anything that might help provide insight on the given topic.
	tgeorgescu claims category error — and my claim is that anthroposophy is no more scientific than the subject of philosophy. in my edits — i did not dispute or remove his claims, and took care to preserve his references/links and to make it clear that anthroposophy is not scientific.
	i believe i was following the wiki principle as stated in WP:RNPOV — as follows:
	WP:RNPOV § Neutrality: In the case of beliefs and practices, Misplaced Pages content should not only encompass what motivates individuals who hold these beliefs and practices but also account for how such beliefs and practices developed. Misplaced Pages articles on history and religion draw from religion's sacred texts as primary sources and modern archaeological, historical, and scientific works as secondary and tertiary sources.
	in short — this issue could have been more constructively solved with some friendly edits aimed at improving the article, and making a subject more understandable — for example:
	i) what are the epistemogical differences which distinguish anthroposophy from critical idealism?
	ii) from whom did steiner get the idea — the article mentioned 'German Idealism', but neglected to mention Goethe.
	iii) the article talks about 'perception of the spiritual world' — but it fails to mention the key role Anthroposophists place on Intuition in this regard.
	these would all be useful things to know if i was a reader and unfamiliar with the subject.
	instead, tgeorgescu has undertaken to report me to arbitration — i find it disingenous to spend such an inordinate amount of time logging in such an amount of effort cataloguing all criticisms against Anthroposophy — without making any efforts towards providing the reader with a better comprehension of what is being criticized — the criticisms and critics tgeorgescu has referenced only makes a case for condemning Anthroposophists — and deleting or reverting edits which disagree with him — and ultimately weaponizing the wiki process — which i find is generally quite fair, and i expect someone might be able to follow up and arbitrate his disproportionate critical activity, and attacks against users like myself which are trying to make honest contributions (as i have helped improve numerous other wiki articles, and believe in the wiki process).
	i have no complaint against a good critical review of contributions to wikipedia - good editors, good referencing, and the good will to work together instead of shutting people down is what makes wikipedia great and useful. please, lets work together, and find a way to make better articles. peace out. ] (]) 03:19, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
	====Statement by (username)====		====Statement by (username)====
	<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->		<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
	===Result concerning Johnrpenner===		===Result concerning Boy shekhar===
	:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''		:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
	<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->		<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
	*<!--		*<!--
	-->		-->
	* Looks like tgeorgescu is exhibiting the exact same behavior that landed them a ] nine months ago. that's a shame, because they seem to solidly be in the right that Johnrpenner is only here to push a pseudoscientific POV. If Tgeorgescu doesn't agree to stop bludgeoning talk pages, going on long-winded "own the crazies" rants, insulting other editors, and generally behaving as if yelling at people about how wrong and stupid they are is the best way to make them go away, the pseudoscience topic area will lose a valuable editor. perhaps a topic ban from ] is in order, since the last row took place there as well. ] (] • she/her) 08:22, 22 August 2024 (UTC)
	*Tgeorgescu - first, "A more nuanced view of how I see Anthroposophy:" has no bearing on how you should be editing. Your personal views are no more useful than the personal views of Johnrpenner or any other editors. In fact, you state later in this very filing that "Merely giving us his own opinion won't do" so putting your views here isn't helpful to the admins looking into your filing. Further, with "Malcontents should not blame me for what full professors write" you are continuing to describe other editors (I think? It's hard to tell if you're referring to other editors or merely folks who subscribe to Anthroposophy, but either way it's a sign of battleground behavior) as "malcontents". You were warned for this last November. Here's another unhelpful comment "I mean: for a university-educated Lead Technical Writer it would be easy-peasy to understand they're breaching website policy." ... you're clearly mocking the editor who you filed this against. Really, this battleground approach needs to stop.
	*Okay, so to the edit that is given as the basis for this filing: ], I see a description of the subject sourced to a pile of what appear to be independent reliable sources (at a quick glance) that is being replaced with stuff sourced to Steiner's own works. Also, I see that "Though proponents claim to present their ideas in a manner that is verifiable by rational discourse and say that they seek precision and clarity comparable to that obtained by ] investigating the physical world, many of these ideas have been termed ] by experts in ] and debunkers of pseudoscience." this sentence (which is sourced to the pile of independent sources) is replaced with "Anthroposophy does not belong to the study of the physical sciences, any more than Plato's Metaphysics should be considered Physics — doing so would be ]" while still sourcing it to the same pile of reliable sources. This is source mis-representation unless each of those sources actually supports this new text (I'll go on a limb here and say it likely doesn't). On the griping hand, though, Johnrpenner isn't exactly a prolific editor - his edit count is around 1700, but they are widely spread out and mostly appear to relate to Goethe. While they are not editing well, I'm not sure they've had a chance to learn that wikipedia isn't a philosphical debating place. They need to learn to edit well with others, but either a topic ban from the narrow topic of Anthroposophy or a warning about their editing there would probably be fine. ] (]) 12:28, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

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PerspicazHistorian

PerspicazHistorian is blocked indefinitely from mainspace. Seraphimblade 03:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning PerspicazHistorian User who is submitting this request for enforcement NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested PerspicazHistorian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced WP:ARBIPA Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 17:57, 18 December 2024 - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of Hindutva (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead. 17:59, 18 December 2024 - tag bombed the highly vetted Hindutva article without any discussion or reason 10:15, 18 December 2024 - attributing castes to people withhout any sources 12:11, 18 December 2024 - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting reverted 17:09, 18 December 2024 - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources 18:29, 18 December 2024 - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation 14:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP." Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring. If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics) Additional comments by editor filing complaint I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. Nxcrypto Message 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC) While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit here by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to MOS:TERRORIST. Nxcrypto Message 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC) PerspicazHistorian is still using unreliable Raj era sources (see WP:RAJ) and wishing to move Shivaji to Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj which is a blatant POV. Nxcrypto Message 04:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by PerspicazHistorian By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu Page. I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before User: Ratnahastin told me about this: User_talk:PerspicazHistorian. Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war. In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to Edit_warring#What_edit_warring_is it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of Misplaced Pages:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle. As a clarification to my edit on Students' Islamic Movement of India, it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this edit. I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong. @Valereee, Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What edit warring is#Other revert rules. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Yes, I will commit to that. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. Seraphimblade 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when Satish R. Devane was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC) Hi @Doug Weller , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me. P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.Valereee (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC) 1) I just asked an user @Fylindfotberserk if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article. 2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC) even @NXcrypto is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. see1see2 PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC) as mentioned by @Valereee before, Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC) @Valereee I once filed a complaint to find it @NXcrypto is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) moving to correct section Valereee (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC) Hi @Toddy1 @Valereee, In my defense I just want to say that 1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push. 2) My main interest in editing is Hinduism and Indian History topics. 3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month. Please do not block me. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC) @Valereee I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @Bishonen I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC) @Vanamonde93@Bishonen I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC) @Valereee This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC) @Valereee I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned here. PPicazHist (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC) @Valereee@UtherSRG I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics). The article prasada doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about Misplaced Pages:CIR, I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! PPicazHist (talk) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC) @UtherSRG You mean to say, "The prasada is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, fruits and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the temple. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. " is not copy pasted by this website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? PPicazHist (talk) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC) @ UtherSRG I just asked others to share their opinion in the enforcement. With all due respect, I don't think its wrong in any sense. PPicazHist (talk) 15:13, 8 January 2025 (UTC) To all the admins involved here, I agree to keep learning and apologize if my previous edits/replies have annoyed the admins. I have not edit warred since a month and please see it as my willingness to keep learning and getting better. Please give me a chance, I understand concern of you all and respect your opinion in the matter. But please don't block me from editing from main article space. I promise that I will abide by all the rules and will learn from other editors. PPicazHist (talk) 15:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC) Statement by LukeEmily PerspicazHistorian also violated WP:BRD by engaging in an edit war with Ratnahastin who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.LukeEmily (talk) Statement by Doug Weller I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and User:Deb's comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving Draft:Satish R. Devane to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. Deb (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. Doug Weller talk 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC) I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... Doug Weller talk 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Toddy1 This is another editor who appears to have pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-Republican views, but allowed Democrat-activists to say whatever they liked. A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too. If we want to talk about WP:CIR when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is . A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics. I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Capitals00 I find the comment from Toddy1 to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like False or misleading statements by Donald Trump. You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user only for your own mental relief. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "seek to censor" this editor due to his "pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure WP:BOOMERANG is coming for you. Capitals00 (talk) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by Vanamonde93 Toddy1: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them. That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. This edit is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. Baji Pasalkar, entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ("first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya", and poor sources (like this blog, and this book, whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. Appa (title), also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim. I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. Bishonen If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC) Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC) Statement by UtherSRG I've mostly dealt with PH around Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ankur Warikoo (2nd nomination). They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the standard offer when they can demonstrate they no longer have WP:CIR issues. - UtherSRG (talk) 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC) Based on these two edits, I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC) They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in WP:CIR territory here. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC) This is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC) Result concerning PerspicazHistorian This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. PerspicazHistorian, can you explain your understanding of WP:edit warring and the WP:3RR rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring even if they aren't breaking 3RR. Valereee (talk) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC) @PerspicazHistorian, that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is the first time someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that? Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH; in their revert NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. Valereee (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC) I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? Valereee (talk) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC) @PerspicazHistorian, have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. Valereee (talk) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC) I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. Valereee (talk) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC) @PerspicazHistorian, like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources. The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit yesterday, after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy. The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. Valereee (talk) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC) A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. Bishonen | tålk 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC). Vanamonde93, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we are in CIR territory; just look at PH's recent supposed evidence on this page for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. Bishonen | tålk 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC). Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? Barkeep49 (talk) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC) I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC) It looks to me like there is a consensus for an indefinite partial block for PerspicazHistorian from article space. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within a day or so, I will close as such. Seraphimblade 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC) Given PH's recent slew of requests on multiple admin talk pages, yes, please do. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC) References "Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God". GaneshaSpeaks. Retrieved 2024-12-30. "What Is Prashad". Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj. Retrieved 2024-12-30.

LaylaCares

There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning LaylaCares User who is submitting this request for enforcement Vice regent (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested LaylaCares (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ARBPIA Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 13:54, December 17, 2024 EC gaming If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics) Additional comments by editor filing complaint Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of this article on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).VR (Please ping on reply) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning LaylaCares Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by LaylaCares Statement by Aquillion Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be WP:G5-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail on the CSD talk page, since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --Aquillion (talk) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC) Statement by Dan Murphy Please look at Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.Dan Murphy (talk) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC) Statement by starship.paint I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, click this link. starship.paint (talk / cont) 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning LaylaCares This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC) I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC) I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC) @Aquillion: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC) I don't think the wording of WP:ECR allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. (ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.) That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC) I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making real, substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. Seraphimblade 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC) I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag is an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

AstroGuy0

AstroGuy0 has been issued a warning for source misrepresentation by Voorts. No other reviewers have expressed any wish for further action. Seraphimblade 06:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning AstroGuy0 User who is submitting this request for enforcement Hemiauchenia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested AstroGuy0 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics/Race and intelligence (Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour") Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 03:19, 4 January 2025 Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once. 01:40, 4 January 2025 Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani" Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics) Made aware of contentious topics criterion: 01:52, 4 January 2025 Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Additional comments by editor filing complaint: This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC) Discussion concerning AstroGuy0 Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by AstroGuy0 Statement by Iskandar323 This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. Iskandar323 (talk) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning AstroGuy0 This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC) I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. Seraphimblade 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC) Given that AstroGuy0 has already been issued a warning, I don't think anything further is necessary, and will close as such unless any uninvolved admin shortly objects. Seraphimblade 18:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Lemabeta

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Lemabeta

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

EF5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Lemabeta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 5 Jan 2025 - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
2. 4 Jan 2025 - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

• Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. E_F 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. E_F 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

(Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. E_F 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

(RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. E_F 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Here

Discussion concerning Lemabeta

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Lemabeta

Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --Lemabeta (talk) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are related but distinct concepts. An ethnographic group refers to a community of people defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, cultural heritage refers to the *practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.

So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) emerges from ethnographic groups but does not define the group itself. Lemabeta (talk) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. Lemabeta (talk) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Lemabeta

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under a topic ban imposed by a consensus of AE admins from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

  To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:
  ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
  <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> voorts (talk/contributions) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

• Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" @Lemabeta: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

  Note that I've deleted Draft:Rachvelians as a clear G5 violation. I think Mate Albutashvili is a bit more of a questionable G5. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

  Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared ... traditions" and "shared ... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". voorts (talk/contributions) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

  @Tamzin: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

  @Bishonen: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

  @Bishonen: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

  @EF5: They were "reviously given ... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

• @Lemabeta: Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity. There's a reason we use the words "broadly construed" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?)This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
• EF5, I don't understand your "Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above" statement, can you please explain what it refers to? This T-ban? Lemabeta's block log is blank.

That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by their apology for "accidental violations". I'll AGF that they were accidental, but OTOH, they surely ought to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? Bishonen | tålk 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).

EF5, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are very different, and the block log only logs blocks. Bishonen | tålk 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).

• It seems that the general consensus here is to treat this as a final warning, and Lemabeta has acknowledged it as such. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within the next day or so, I will close as such. Seraphimblade 01:16, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

GokuEltit

Issues on the Spanish Misplaced Pages will need to be handled there; the English Misplaced Pages has no authority or control over what happens on the Spanish project. This noticeboard is only for requesting enforcement of English Misplaced Pages arbitration decisions. Seraphimblade 22:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I was blocked from Misplaced Pages for ignoring the formatting of a table, I edited an article wrong, Bajii banned me for 2 weeks, but it didn't even take 1 and Hasley changed it to permanent, I tried to make an unban request, they deleted it and blocked my talk page. I asked for help on irc, an admin tried to help me make another unblock request, but the admin jem appeared and told me that I was playing the victim and banned me and expelled me from irc. I just want to contribute to the platform GokuJuan (talk) 20:11, 10 January 2025 (UTC) @GokuEltit: This is a complaint about Spanish Misplaced Pages - see es:Especial:Contribuciones/GokuJuan, where you have a block history from August 2023 to September 2024 (machine translation). Your block affects Spanish-language Misplaced Pages - it does not affect English-language Misplaced Pages.-- Toddy1 (talk) 20:27, 10 January 2025 (UTC) You also had some blocks on Commons, but they have expired.-- Toddy1 (talk) 20:30, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Boy shekhar

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Boy shekhar

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Daniel Quinlan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:34, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Boy shekhar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics/India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

• This edit violates the topic ban because it is in the topic area. It's also based on an unreliable source and the section header includes a derogatory term.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

• Here is the topic ban for persistent insertion of original research, use of unreliable sources or no sources at all, and tendentious editing.

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

• Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on 14 August 2020 by Doug Weller (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
• Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 15 March 2020 (see the system log linked to above).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

• I've edited the article so I am involved. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 06:34, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• Diff of the AE notification

Discussion concerning Boy shekhar

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Boy shekhar

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Boy shekhar

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.