| Revision as of 07:05, 10 September 2024 editClueBot III (talk | contribs)Bots1,381,671 editsm Archiving 1 discussion to Talk:David Irving/Archive 11. (BOT)← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 08:12, 5 December 2024 edit undo2601:248:5181:5c70:1502:8587:7bb9:1a6f (talk) →Photo: ReplyTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Reply |
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==Photo== |
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Isn't the photo used a bit too obviously propagandist? He looks mean and "in-your-face" and grumpy. Isn't this just a very basic, a very crude way of immediately portraying him as a villain? |
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== Date of order for extermination of Jews. == |
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I'd think the article- or the man's works themselves- would do a proper job of displaying him for, well, himself. Having an unflattering picture, while it works on "the plebs", will have the opposite effect on the sort of people who might actually bother reading him. |
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The statement that Hitler still advocated only the expulsion of the European Jews in December 1941 and only changed his mind to order the extermination of the Jews in 1942 is historically inaccurate and should be removed from an edited version of the text. I suggest that the following be inserted in the text as a replacement: "On July 31,1941, Hitler's deputy Fuhrer, Hermann Goering, signed an order authorizing Reinhard Heydrich, head of the the Reich's General Security Office (SD) to prepare a plan for the final solution" and "total solution" to the "Jewish Question." At a conference at a government-confiscated mansion in on Lake Wannsee January 1942, Heydrich. citing the Goering order of July 31 1941 as his authoritzation presided over a meeting of government officials from several departments of the Reich in which detailed plans were drawn up for the extermination of European Jewry, and tasks were assigned to several departments of the Reich to assist in achieving this objective. According to an entry in the Diary of Joseph Goebels, minister of enlightenment and propaganda,Hitler presided over a meeting of senior Nazi Party officials in which he announced that he had ordered the extermination of European Jews. This indicates that the Goering order of July 31, 1941 and the subsequent conference at Wannsee in January 1942 had Hitler's full approval." ] (]) 14:29, 14 May 2024 (UTC) |
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How about finding a neutral picture? Something that doesn't bias the reader one way or the other? |
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(Sorry if my editing isn't proper; I very, very, very rarely engage in this sort of thing) |
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I think I "sign" with three+ tilde signs? ] (]) 03:51, 11 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:I honestly think it is neutral. ] (]) 08:12, 5 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Hitler's possible motives for not signing the July 31 "final solution" order and instead apparently delegating this task to his deputy Goering. == |
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This following addition-revision of the text should be added after my previous suggested edit of the text concerning the date of Hitler's decision to authorize a "total solution" of the Jewish question. "No historian of any repute professes to know why hitler delegated the signing of the "final solution" and "total solution" order to his deputy Goering rather than signing it himself. We sugtgest that perhaps Hitler realized the criminal nature of the order, and felt more comfortable ordering his deputy to sign the order rather than doing so himself. ] (]) 14:57, 14 May 2024 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 21 August 2024 == |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 21 August 2024 == |
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In the article, it states that "Irving's affairs caused his first marriage to end in divorce in 1981." - but there is no citation. I think this should be removed as per ]. ] (]) 21:02, 8 September 2024 (UTC) |
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In the article, it states that "Irving's affairs caused his first marriage to end in divorce in 1981." - but there is no citation. I think this should be removed as per ]. ] (]) 21:02, 8 September 2024 (UTC) |
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== GA concerns == |
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I am concerned that this article no longer meets the ]. Some of my concerns are listed below: |
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*At over 11,000 words, ] suggests that it might be split up or summarised more effectively. |
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*The article relies too much on block quotes: removing and summarising these will help reduce the article length. |
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*There are many sources listed in the bibliography that are not used as inline citations: these should be considered for their inclusion or removed. |
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*Some sections are too large and should be broken up with headings. |
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Is anyone interested in fixing up this article, or should it go to ]? ] (]) 02:56, 9 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:I don't think the problem is as great as you lay out. The article is written well, and covers a lot of territory with appropriate detail. 156 kb isn't outlandishly big. ] says "the scope of a topic can sometimes justify the added reading material." |
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:The GA version in 2011 contained block quotes, too. The block quotes convey a great deal of information including Irving's deeply hateful tone, which would disappear if summarized. |
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:Feel free to reduce the bibliography. ] (]) 03:52, 9 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::{{re|Binksternet}} Sorry I did not respond to this sooner: I missed it on my watchlist. Responses below |
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::*I do not think the scope of this topic can justify the length: if there were already attempts to ] the article, I could agree with this, but this article has not done so yet so I do not think all of this information should stay here. |
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::*Regarding block quotes: ] says we should not be making interpretations of the work. Instead, Misplaced Pages should be presenting what secondary sources have said about the topic. If the block quotes "convey a great deal of information including Irving's deeply hateful tone" then it should be presented from secondary sources. Also, direct quotes might bring copyright concerns if done too often, which is why I recommend using them sparingly and summarising the information instead. |
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::Would you be interested in addressing these concerns, or should this go to ] to get additional opinions? ] (]) 22:22, 23 October 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Do whatever you think is right. I think the GAR process will unnecessarily waste the community's time. For 14 years now, the article has contained a bunch of blockquotes. had 1,162 words worth of blockquotes. The previous GAR attempt (archived at ]) was a biased attempt to whitewash the article resulting in affirmation of the GA status. The article has been improved bit by bit for more than a decade, and represents standing consensus on the topic. I don't think a new GAR is necessary. ] (]) 22:50, 23 October 2024 (UTC) |
Isn't the photo used a bit too obviously propagandist? He looks mean and "in-your-face" and grumpy. Isn't this just a very basic, a very crude way of immediately portraying him as a villain?
I'd think the article- or the man's works themselves- would do a proper job of displaying him for, well, himself. Having an unflattering picture, while it works on "the plebs", will have the opposite effect on the sort of people who might actually bother reading him.
How about finding a neutral picture? Something that doesn't bias the reader one way or the other?
(Sorry if my editing isn't proper; I very, very, very rarely engage in this sort of thing)
In the article, it states that "Irving's affairs caused his first marriage to end in divorce in 1981." - but there is no citation. I think this should be removed as per WP:BLP. 45.178.73.82 (talk) 21:02, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
level-5 vital article is rated GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. PianoDan (talk) 16:40, 21 August 2024 (UTC)