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Talk:2024 Hezbollah headquarters strike: Difference between revisions

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⚫ {{contentious topics/talk notice|a-i}}

== Requested move 27 September 2024 ==

{{requested move/dated|27 September 2024 Beirut attacks}}

] → {{no redirect|27 September 2024 Beirut attacks}} or ''']''' – While Israel states it only targeted the Hezbollah headquarters, several RS say the attack lay waste to "Several apartment blocks" or "multiple high-rise apartment buildings". Given such an immense destruction of civilian infrastructure, we should not put Israeli claims that this was a "precise strike" on just the Hezbollah HQ in wikivoice (violation of ]]), and instead pick the most neutral title. ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 21:40, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

:'''Oppose''', the suggested title is empty of meaning. A more relevant move would be to '''attempted assassination of Hassan Nasrallah''' or something similar ] (]) 22:04, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
::Had the attack only killed/injured Nasrallah and those close to him, I'd have agreed with you. But the amount of collateral damage is immense and reducing it to one person, is quite POV. Also, there is precedent: consider the ] whose stated target was Iraqi PM ] or the ], whose stated target was British PM ].''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 22:59, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
*Consider the Israeli attempt to assassinate ]. The article is called ], ] on the talk page. That event killed 90+ people and injured 300+, and it is quite likely that the death toll for this event might be similarly high.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 23:02, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

:'''Support''': the proposed move strikes me as in line with existing practice, the wording in RS, and neutrality. ] (<span style="font-variant:small-caps">]</span>) 23:40, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
::<small>{{ping|AntiDionysius}}, fyi, I have changed the proposed title from "27 September 2024 Beirut attack" to "27 September 2024 Beirut attacks" (notice the plural).''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 01:44, 28 September 2024 (UTC)</small>

:'''Oppose''' with multiple additional attacks on Beirut weapons storage locations in the evening of the same day, but not on Hezbollah HQs, a better title might have to be the ] (plural, not singular). This is going to take a few days to sort out what all these multiple attacks did, and how many Hezbollah & Iranian operatives may have been targeted in the attacks, before a ] can really be chosen for the longer term. ] (]) 00:04, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
::You're right about the plural: "{{tq|The series of massive explosions sent huge clouds of smoke soaring above the densely populated Haret Hreik neighbourhood in Dahiyeh, southern Beirut, around dusk on Friday.}}" 's headline is also "{{tq|Terror, panic as Israeli strikes wipe out Beirut buildings}}". I'll change it.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 01:42, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:'''Oppose''' This particular, single strike is going to be the notable one among many others which are part of the wider conflict. ] (]) 03:48, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
::@] can you clarify? It seems there were multiple strikes in the same location. For example, France24 "The strike'''s''' killed at least two people and injured 76, Lebanon's health ministry said in a preliminary toll." Notice the plural.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 03:57, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:::@] I suppose the word "strike" is confusing, France24 seems to be defining "strike" as one bomb while I was referring to the whole event which lasted like a minute. My definition is in line with other articles like ] but I'm not sure there's any standard ] (]) 04:44, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
::::@] to clarify then, you'd be ok with "27 September 2024 Beirut attack" as opposed to "27 September 2024 Beirut attacks"? ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 04:56, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:<del>'''Support''', it is not even confirmed he was killed yet. Also, given the nature of the bombings (attacking apartment blocks), it might be best to go with "attack" same as ] as noted above. &lt;/]&gt; &lt;] /&gt;&lt;] /&gt; 08:43, 28 September 2024 (UTC)</del>
::Now that it is confirmed he is dead, it still matters that potentially hundreds are dead from airstrikes on apartment blocks in a densely populated suburb. This article probably should just be called '''Assassination of Hassan Nasrallah''' (as it actually was when I first replied, IDK why), as I can't think of a not-unwieldy title that incorporates the civilian casualties in it, however we should have another article that goes in depth on the potentially hundreds dead.&lt;/]&gt; &lt;] /&gt;&lt;] /&gt;
:'''Support''' per above. We did not call Deif's attempted assassination "attempted assassination of Mohammed Deif". <span style="font-family: Courier New; background-color: green; padding: 2px 3px 1px 3px;">] </span>]]</span> 10:39, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
::Killing is confirmed now but still think we need a separate article on the bombings. ] (]) 11:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I think this should be its own standalone article too, yes. Although I think we can incorporate both the attack and the assassination in the same article perhaps? Otherwise two separate articles are okay too IMO. <span style="font-family: Courier New; background-color: green; padding: 2px 3px 1px 3px;">] </span>]]</span> 11:55, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose''' he is dead. No need for more ambiguity which is not in line with alike articles ] (]) 12:03, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:'''Strong oppose''', even if civilians were killed in the attack, absolutely the most notable thing here is that Nasrallah has been assassinated, confirmed by Hezbollah. ] (]) 12:04, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:'''Strong supporrt''' Misplaced Pages should not adopt a belligerent's rationale in the title for an attack that seems likely to have killed dozens ] (]) 12:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:'''Move to ]''' – With his assassination confirmed, it is now a forgone matter that the most notable event within the scope of this article, and the name by which this event will be known is as the assassination of ]. ---&nbsp;]&amp;]]) 13:11, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
::Note: This was actually the title of the article when I first !voted, did someone move it and then it got reverted whilst this RfC was going on? &lt;/]&gt; &lt;] /&gt;&lt;] /&gt; 13:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

⚫ == POV ==

Yet again, the background is POV. It mentions Yemeni attacks on Israel, but says nothing about Israeli attacks on Gaza, where it has killed 40,000 people. We've been over this at ].''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 21:49, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

== Minor infobox note ==

Shouldn’t the little infobox blurb include that this was also a part of the ]? ] (]) 00:18, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

⚫ == Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 September 2024 ==

⚫ {{edit extended-protected|Assassination of Hassan Nasrallah|answered=yes}}
Nasrallah is dead. ] (]) 08:19, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{notdone}}: It's not clear what changes you want to be made. ]&lt;/]&gt; &lt;] /&gt;&lt;] /&gt; 09:12, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

== Why is this an article? ==

<s>We still have very little information, the dust still hasn't settled. Either delete this article, rename it or merge it into another article. We still don't know if Nasrallah is dead or not apart from hearsay from the IDF. No evidence has yet been presented by either sides.</s> Disregard this section, Nasrallah has been confirmed dead by Hezbollah themselves in a statement. <span style="font-family: Courier New; background-color: green; padding: 2px 3px 1px 3px;">] </span>]]</span> 09:46, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

== Operation named "New Order" ==

The assassination operation was named "New Order" (Hebrew: "סדר חדש")


== Semi-protected edit request ==
Sources:


{{Edit semi-protected|2024 Hezbollah headquarters strike|answered=y}}
https://x.com/idfonline/status/1839945167354163378 (IDF Hebrew twitter account)
In the intro and other casualties, where it mentions the ], please add Iranian (I.e. “the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps”). Since this attack took place in Lebanon, it’s important to note that the IRGC is part of the Iranian Armed Forces. ] (]) 03:18, 7 December 2024 (UTC)


:It is common knowledge, I believe, that IRGC refers to Iranian corps; additionaly the article has been wikilinked, so I don't see any reason to include "Iranian" here. I am not closing this and would let another editor do so. ] (]) 19:37, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-operation-to-kill-nasrallah-was-code-named-new-order/ (Times of Israel news report) ] (]) 11:37, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:{{not done}}:<!-- Template:ESp --> per {{u|TheAstorPastor}}. ] (]) 11:57, 12 December 2024 (UTC)


<strike>This is not necessarily common knowledge and should be stated in the case of confusion. A lot of people are just now paying attention to this conflict as they are looking into Israel-Palestine.] (]) 15:02, 29 December 2024 (UTC)</strike> <small>Struck per ]. ] (]) 11:26, 30 December 2024 (UTC)</small>
:Possible to mention the operation code name in the article? ] (]) 11:38, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
::Yes, very good piece of information to add. You can add it yourself or add it and let someone else polish it. <span style="font-family: Courier New; background-color: green; padding: 2px 3px 1px 3px;">] </span>]]</span> 11:47, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:Can someone transliterate? ] ] 11:54, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
::Done. Should be in the article now. <span style="font-family: Courier New; background-color: green; padding: 2px 3px 1px 3px;">] </span>]]</span> 12:00, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:::Hebrew speaker here. I fixed - it's "Seder Hadash". Seder סדר = order, and Hadash חדש = new ] (]) 12:49, 28 September 2024 (UTC)


⚫ == Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 January 2025 ==
== What happened on October 8? ==


⚫ {{edit extended-protected|2024 Hezbollah headquarters strike|answered=yes}}
Please see ], and participate there, and then whatever is decided should be replicated here. Currently there is a ] violation in the article.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 12:15, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
What about the results of the airstrike ] (]) 12:25, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
:] '''Not done''': it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:EEp --> ] ] 15:03, 8 January 2025 (UTC)


⚫ == Biased ==
:Are there still any violations in ]? If not, the first part of the Background here should almost be the same. ] ] 12:56, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
::Yeah looks good. We should also remove the POV tag from that article's background if there are no further objections.''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 13:02, 28 September 2024 (UTC)


The article contains language that may not adhere to Misplaced Pages’s neutrality standards. To maintain the article’s objectivity, it should be reviewed and adjusted. A lot of biased phrasing. Ensuring a balanced perspective is crucial.
== Lead pov ==


It reads very one-sided as it emphasizes the destruction caused by Israel without fully contextualizing Hezbollah's provocations leading up to the airstrike. It inaccurately frames the event as an "assassination" rather than an elimination of a key figure actively engaged in orchestrating attacks against Israel for decades. While it briefly mentions Hezbollah’s actions, it doesn’t adequately address the severity of those threats or the strategic rationale for Israel's response. The focus on civilian casualties, paired with phrases like "war of extermination," risks framing Israel as excessively aggressive without balancing it with details about Hezbollah's tactics, such as embedding military assets within civilian areas. A more neutral tone would provide this context for a fuller and more accurate picture.
Very much like, we currently have NPOV violations in the lead. If we're going to put in Netanyahu's comment that Israel "yearns for peace", we should also put the Lebanese PM's comment that "Israeli aggression on Lebanon is a war of extermination". ''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 12:59, 28 September 2024 (UTC)


:I disagree. This war is between Israel and Hezbollah. We can put what Hezbollah leading officials say on this ] (]) 13:01, 28 September 2024 (UTC) ] (]) 10:08, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 10:48, 21 January 2025

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Semi-protected edit request

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the intro and other casualties, where it mentions the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, please add Iranian (I.e. “the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps”). Since this attack took place in Lebanon, it’s important to note that the IRGC is part of the Iranian Armed Forces. 2600:100C:A218:9A7B:8155:A751:3DBB:848E (talk) 03:18, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

It is common knowledge, I believe, that IRGC refers to Iranian corps; additionaly the article has been wikilinked, so I don't see any reason to include "Iranian" here. I am not closing this and would let another editor do so. The AP (talk) 19:37, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
 Not done: per TheAstorPastor. M.Bitton (talk) 11:57, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

This is not necessarily common knowledge and should be stated in the case of confusion. A lot of people are just now paying attention to this conflict as they are looking into Israel-Palestine.2600:100C:A21D:971A:B1ED:D707:631B:874B (talk) 15:02, 29 December 2024 (UTC) Struck per WP:ARBECR. Lewisguile (talk) 11:26, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 January 2025

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

What about the results of the airstrike Liad1456 (talk) 12:25, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EvergreenFir (talk) 15:03, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Biased

The article contains language that may not adhere to Misplaced Pages’s neutrality standards. To maintain the article’s objectivity, it should be reviewed and adjusted. A lot of biased phrasing. Ensuring a balanced perspective is crucial.

It reads very one-sided as it emphasizes the destruction caused by Israel without fully contextualizing Hezbollah's provocations leading up to the airstrike. It inaccurately frames the event as an "assassination" rather than an elimination of a key figure actively engaged in orchestrating attacks against Israel for decades. While it briefly mentions Hezbollah’s actions, it doesn’t adequately address the severity of those threats or the strategic rationale for Israel's response. The focus on civilian casualties, paired with phrases like "war of extermination," risks framing Israel as excessively aggressive without balancing it with details about Hezbollah's tactics, such as embedding military assets within civilian areas. A more neutral tone would provide this context for a fuller and more accurate picture.

Mic773 (talk) 10:08, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

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