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view · edit Frequently asked questions Q1: When was consensus established to name the page Persecution of Uyghurs in China? A1: The current title reflects the consensus established in the most recent move discussion (22 January 2024). Two previous widely attended move discussions (30 June 2020 and 1 April 2021) had resulted in this page being titled Uyghur genocide. Please see Logs and discussions below for the full list of move discussions. In these discussions, editors discussed reporting from reliable sources in light of WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CRITERIA, the first two times establishing an affirmative consensus that the title "Uyghur genocide" is an appropriate name for the article. The third debate, immediately following a 12 January 2024 discussion that was closed as "not moved", citing WP:NCENPOV as the naming convention guideline justifying a shift to the new name.

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	Persecution of Uyghurs in China was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result February 1, 2020 Articles for deletion Kept February 11, 2021 Good article nominee Not listed
	A news item involving this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "In the news" column on September 2, 2022.
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The use of the contentious topics procedure has been authorised by the community for pages related to Uyghurs, Uyghur genocide, or topics that are related to Uyghurs or Uyghur genocide, including this page. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination. Logs and discussions: Move logs: Ethnocide of Uyghurs Cultural genocide of the Uyghurs Cultural genocide of Uyghurs Uyghur genocide allegations Uyghur cultural genocide Uyghur genocide Discussions: RM, Ethnocide of Uyghurs → Cultural genocide of the Uyghurs, Moved, 4 February 2020, (discussion) RM, Cultural genocide of the Uyghurs → Cultural genocide of Uyghurs, Moved, 16 February 2020, (discussion) RM, Cultural genocide of Uyghurs → Uyghur genocide, Moved, 30 June 2020, (discussion) RM, Uyghur genocide → Persecution of Uyghurs, Not Moved, 3 February 2021, (discussion) RM, Uyghur genocide → Uyghur cultural genocide, Not Moved, 1 April 2021, (discussion) RM, Uyghur genocide → Repression of Uyghurs in China, Not Moved, 5 September 2021, (discussion) RM, Uyghur genocide → Uyghur ethnocide, Not Moved, 20 September 2023, (discussion) RM, Uyghur genocide → Uyghur genocide accusation, Not Moved, 12 January 2024, (discussion) RM, Uyghur genocide → Persecution of Uyghurs in China, Moved, 22 January 2024, (discussion)

Ideas on Uyghur persecution

"Brainwashing" as a form of attack seems a bit ridiculous, and there should most definitely be an addition to this article about skepticism of the Uyghur persecution FrogOnGrog (talk) 12:03, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

There is a subsection on brainwashing under the human rights abuses section. It has plenty of content, and sources are cited. Will see if that section needs to be expanded even more. I do not think it is for Misplaced Pages to decide whether this is ridiculous. Butterdiplomat (talk) 13:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The word "Brainwashing" should indeed be re-assessed. If meant literally, it is akin to arguing the earth is flat. "Brainwashing" is non-scientific, asserting "brainwashing" in some literal sense would raise the WP:FALSEBALANCE problem. However, in most instances, someone saying "brainwashing" means indoctrination. We should avoid colloquial or metaphorical language and simply say indoctrination.

Feel free to bring forward more sources on your broader point. Editors on this talk page will read them. JArthur1984 (talk) 16:35, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Agree that 'brainwashing' is a) a loaded word and b) un-encyclopaedic. Blitterbug 22:13, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 December 2024

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There has been extensive discussion in the talk page and archive as to whether Adrian Zenz should be considered a reliable source or not. Generally, the consensus seems to be that he is at least not fit for direct citation. I would then suggest that these citations to Zenz be changed to citation needed, or removed if there is not a more reliable source to support the claim being made. This would bring the article in line with the reliable sources rule. 2600:100F:B122:7CA5:982E:6537:6A9B:BDB5 (talk) 23:40, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Per my understanding, it is a pretty blatant mischaracterization to say there is consensus among editors here that Zenz is unreliable. (Cards on the table, as someone who hasn't participated in those discussions to date, I do not think he is a reliable source.) Remsense ‥ 论 23:50, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

Zenz was most notable for his book about the end times when Jesus would return and burn most of the Jews. His writings about Uyghurs are not rs and should only be included to the extent they are discussed in reliable secondary sources. TFD (talk) 02:50, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

...What? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 03:34, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

See Worthy to Escape: Why All Believers Will Not Be Raptured Before The Tribulation by Adrian Zenz Phd and Marlon L. Silas (WestBow press 2012). TFD (talk) 11:40, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

From an unreliability perspective, it’s the way these eschatological writings intersect with geopolitical stances which is troubling. JArthur1984 (talk) 11:56, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

The ...What? was more with respect to Zenz was most notable for his book about the end times when Jesus would return and burn most of the Jews. That... just isn't true, more or less at any point in Zenz's life. And his work is extremely well respected in academic circles; for example, his October 2018 journal article "‘Thoroughly reforming them towards a healthy heart attitude’: China’s political re-education campaign in Xinjiang" has been cited just under 300 times in 5 years. That he's been subjected to a wide disinformation campaign from the Chinese State doesn't make him any less reliable here. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 22:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

This bizarre text he and his father-in-law wrote is not disinformation. They wrote the thing. JArthur1984 (talk) 03:56, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

 Original research from me! I reflexively avoid these discussions onwiki because our necessary policies can't help but reflect a fractured discourse. If there were any appetite on "either side" to cross-pollinate, our wiki's coverage of China could be so much more—instead for all the reasons you can think of, we're stuck relying on figures like Zenz when we would never need to in a healthy geopolitical and intellectual climate. Maybe that sounds weirdly flowery given the pathos involved in this particular topic, but I dunno—we're able to write articles about the persecution of Muslims in France, Myanmar, or the United States without the constant tinge of it being a proxy conflict in our clash of civilizations in that way. Remsense ‥ 论 04:09, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

That he holds a millenialist/dispensationalist sort of Protestant eschatology is not contested. But it's also entirely a non-sequitur here, and it's certainly not the thing for which he is best known, nor is it the thing that his academic work focuses on. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 19:46, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

There is a circular journalism problem with Zenz, where his factual claims became repeated by other political actors and in western media. It would be good to reduce this.

From a reliability perspective, more troubling than his eschatological writing already mentioned in this section is his flawed IUD study. JArthur1984 (talk) 12:09, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 January 2025

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The date for source #27 is from 1944-1946, not 1944-1949. the war ended before that. it was reabsorbed into China after 2600:8807:2882:4200:E1BC:1024:3B65:DCE7 (talk) 11:45, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

The source you may be talking about could be #52, since that one (and its related text) are the only mentions of 1944 I can see. "1944-1949" is part of the title of the work reffed, therefore not something we can change.

According to the linked article, Second East Turkestan Republic, the reabsorbtion took place in 1949/50, so I'm not sure what you think the error here is (though this is far from being my speciality). Pincrete (talk) 13:46, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

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