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Latest revision as of 10:30, 8 January 2025

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Archives

Index 1

This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 5 sections are present.

Flag

Hello, before anyone who wants to remove the flag. Let me explain, in the Fictionised flag of the Rashidun Caliphate, it is mentioned that people said it would've been the same flag as Muhammad which is black as seen in the Conquest of Mecca. Syazwi Irfan (talk) 08:18, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

In the what? Either way, any claims about a flag need to be supported explicitly by reliable sources. R Prazeres (talk) 09:33, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

According to Ibn Abbas, he said that the Muhammad's standard (Raya) was black and his banner (Liwa) white. Syazwi Irfan (talk) 09:43, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Syazwi Irfan, Misplaced Pages is based on what is explicitly said by reliable (and secondary) sources. The source you cited was not one of those. (Please also look at original research policy, which is relevant here.) I doubt that there is clear support in reliable sources for identifying something like an official flag of the Rashidun caliphs, but if there is, I recommend you present the sources here first so that we can verify them. Thanks, R Prazeres (talk) 17:17, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Map

I've noticed that neither Wario2's map added here nor the previous map (, ) reference any sources. As with other content, the article should use a map based on reliable sources. The new map goes a step further by introducing additional WP:OR in the form of provincial borders and an alleged banner (which has been repeatedly removed from the infobox in the past), so I'm reverting to the former map, even if the latter remains ultimately unsourced as well.

I had a quick look through Category:Maps of the Rashidun Caliphate but I haven't found a map that's a clear improvement. One reliable source that could be used as basis for a new map is Sluglett & Currie 2014 (which is accessible on archive.org here and maybe visible on Google Books preview), which has a relevant map of the period (#3, pp. 16-17). Another potential source is Ruthven & Nanji 2004 (pp. 28-29). There are a couple of other scholarly historical atlases that illustrate this as well, but I don't think they're as easily accessible (e.g. An Historical Atlas of Islam by Hugh Kennedy, 2002). R Prazeres (talk) 18:02, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it is very difficult to find maps that cite reliable sources, even the map currently used in the article I don't think cites reliable sources. However, after looking around, all the maps in that category almost show the exact same area range. ▪︎ Fazoffic _{( ʖ╎ᓵᔑ∷ᔑ)} 22:00, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Al-Khilafah Ar-Rasidah rather than Rashidun Caliphate

Rashidun Caliphate is a European English name for Al-Khilafah Ar-Rasidah. It's official name was Al-Khilafah Ar-Rasidah rather than Rashidun Caliphate. Also, according to Google trends, the most used word nowadays is Khilafah ar rasidah, or Khilafat e Rashida, or Khilafat ar Rashida, not Rashidun Caliphate. Therealbey (talk) 07:01, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

We go by WP:COMMONNAME, not official name. This is the English Misplaced Pages, so obviously we will stick with a name which is most familiar to English-language readers. I checked the Google Trends page you have sent and it actually proves the opposite - that "Rashidun" is more commonly used. Every other English-language encyclopedia uses "Rashidun" too. StephenMacky1 (talk) 07:20, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Arabian Empire

I want to say ummayed and rashidun caliphate were continuation and were muslim Arabian Empire it would be better as Arabian Empire like Spanish empire was Catholic but Spanish and spread language and religion both Arabian Empire did arabization and islamization too. 2404:3100:1408:ADAE:F72A:8959:AE4F:CEBD (talk) 17:42, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Caliph Hassan

The last caliph isn’t Ali, it’s his son Hassan. His 6 months in power after Ali completes the 30 years of the prophetic caliphate. Sxmiii (talk) 16:13, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Is anyone checking edits made by silent anonymous editor?

I mean "49.36.110.63", who goes in w/o edit summary or any explanation on this talk-page, and makes substantial edits. Arminden (talk) 01:29, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I propose merging Rashidun into Rashidun Caliphate. I think the content of the articles is almost exactly the same. See for yourself. --Louis P. Boog (talk) 02:01, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

• Rashidun's are different than the state of Rashidun Caliphate. Rashidun are rightly Guided caliphs and the the Rashidun caliphate is a state by them. Therealbey (talk) 04:38, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• Support, but with a few notes:
  • I agree the scopes of the two are so overlapping that I can't tell the difference. So in terms of existing content, this should be merged.
  • In principle, two different articles might still be beneficial, but a much more clearly distinct scope needs to be proposed and defined for the other article. Given its current state, this looks like it would be an entirely new endeavor, so I think a merge and consolidation in the meantime is probably still more beneficial. Future discussion could determine the scope and merits of another article.
  • The article here (Rashidun Caliphate) is currently 11,000+ words, so it will require some additional management, especially if we merge content. However, there are multiple independent measures that can address that:
    • There are long sections, like the "History" section, which could be reasonably split off into its own clearly-defined article and replaced here with WP:SUMMARYSTYLE.
    • There are multiple areas of extensive uncited or poorly-cited material in this article, which might be best removed under the circumstances.

R Prazeres (talk) 21:07, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

No. Rashidun's are different from the the Rashidun Caliphate. They are those who are considered to Special person or from the 12 mentioned by prophet Muhammad in several Hadiths. Therealbey (talk) 21:55, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Rasidun could be the name of this proposed article and the Rasidun Caliphate Article could be a sub-article within it. WikiEditor5678910 (talk) 18:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
• I agree. That articles are nearly identical and "Rashidun" doesn't mean anything besides the first few caliphs. 2804:3288:A1CA:C800:35FB:E614:E19D:EF07 (talk) 06:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
• Support - The Islamic religious concept of a "rightly-guided" or Rashidun caliph is different from the historiographical term Rashidun Caliphate. However, the Rashidun/"rightly-guided" concept is not something that needs a separate article (RS do not treat it separately either), but rather something that should be explained within the Rashidun Caliphate article. ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 11:01, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Hasan ibn Ali as a part of it

Hasan ibn 'Ali was the part of the formal caliphate but his reign is religiously considered under Ali's caliphate because of a narration in Hadith - Sunan Abi Dawud 4646 but historically he was the part of formal Al-Khilafah the caliphate' Therealbey (talk) 16:58, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

References

1. https://www.muftisays.com/blog/Seifeddine-M/4091_17-12-2018/imaam-alhasan-ibn-ali-ra-the-fifth-rightlyguided-caliph.html

Orphaned references in Rashidun Caliphate

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Rashidun Caliphate's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Campo":

• From Rashidun: Juan Eduardo Campo, Encyclopedia of Islam Archived 2023-03-12 at the Wayback Machine, Infobase Publishing, 2009
• From Abu Bakr: Campo, Juan Eduardo (15 April 2009). Encyclopedia of Islam. Infobase Publishing. ISBN 9781438126968 – via Google Books.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT⚡ 19:06, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Prophet Muhammad SAW said that his Ummah would be ruled by 12 rashidun caliphs

The Prophet Muhammad SAW is reported to have said that his Ummah would be ruled by 12 righteous caliphs as mentioned in hadiths narrated by jabir ibn samura

references:-

Sahih bukhari 7222 Sahih bukhari 7223 Sahih muslim 4705 Sahih muslim 4706 Sahih muslim 4707 Sahih muslim 4708 Sahih muslim 4709 Sahih muslim 4710 Sahih muslim 4711 tirmizi 2223 Umayyad-387 (talk) 21:07, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

@Umayyad-387: all these are primary sources. On Misplaced Pages, we need you to cite secondary sources written by secular academic historians, to establish the encyclopedic nature of the information.

Please read our core policy page Misplaced Pages:No original research#Primary, secondary and tertiary sources. Thanks, ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 13:02, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Sahih bukhari Hadith Number 7222 Umayyad-387 (talk) 14:03, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

Why is the Byzantine Empire listed as one of the predecessor states of the caliphate?

The caliphate only annexed two Byzantine provinces, Egypt and Cyrenaica. So to list the entire Byzantine Empire as a predecessor state is incorrect and only the two above mentioned provinces should be listed as predecessors. Sapphire2025 (talk) 08:48, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

As I pointed out previously, that's not what this parameter of the infobox entails. It means that the territory which the caliphate occupied was previously occupied by the states in that list. That is how the parameter is used in every other article. There's no implication to that the entire empire was conquered and the article, including the lead, is very clear on this point, so there's no real confusion here. R Prazeres (talk) 10:30, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

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