| Revision as of 19:31, 26 December 2024 editDoctorWhoFan91 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers2,810 edits →Karen Friedman Agnifilo: ReplyTag: Reply← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 23:17, 2 January 2025 edit undoBeeblebrox (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators113,726 edits →Karen Friedman Agnifilo: Closed as keep (XFDcloser) | ||
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| :''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's ] or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' | |||
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| The result was '''keep'''__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__. ] ] 23:17, 2 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
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| <noinclude>{{AFD help}}</noinclude> | <noinclude>{{AFD help}}</noinclude> | ||
| :{{la|1=Karen Friedman Agnifilo}} – (<includeonly>]</includeonly><noinclude>]</noinclude> | ]) | :{{la|1=Karen Friedman Agnifilo}} – (<includeonly>]</includeonly><noinclude>]</noinclude> | ]) | ||
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| This should probably be redirected to ], as her only ] action has been defending Mangione. So, ] and ] most likely apply. ] (]) 13:11, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | This should probably be redirected to ], as her only ] action has been defending Mangione. So, ] and ] most likely apply. ] (]) 13:11, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
| *<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the ] lists for the following topics: ], ], and ]. ] (]) 13:17, 26 December 2024 (UTC)</small> | *<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the ] lists for the following topics: ], ], and ]. ] (]) 13:17, 26 December 2024 (UTC)</small> | ||
| *'''Redirect''' per nom and ] to the article of the ] that the subject is notable for having represented. --] (]) 13:35, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | *<del>'''Redirect''' per nom and ] to the article of the ] that the subject is notable for having represented. --] (]) 13:35, 26 December 2024 (UTC)</del> | ||
| :Changing to '''keep'''. Most references are ], but is a pretty lengthy 2021 article about the subject in the ], which seems like a reliable source by my reading of ]. --] (]) 23:18, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Redirect''' to the article on ]. ]. Lack material for ]. ] <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:2px 5px;background:#FF8C00;font-size:75%">]</span> 14:09, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | * '''Redirect''' to the article on ]. ]. Lack material for ]. ] <span style="border-radius:8em;padding:2px 5px;background:#FF8C00;font-size:75%">]</span> 14:09, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Redirect''' as she is only notable for one thing. ] '''(])''' 15:54, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | *'''Redirect''' as she is only notable for one thing. ] '''(])''' 15:54, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
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| *:::There are only trivial mentions of her before this month- there was no ] of her before, just mentions of her or her podcasts in passing more or less. | *:::There are only trivial mentions of her before this month- there was no ] of her before, just mentions of her or her podcasts in passing more or less. | ||
| *:::As for Cochrane, he became notable because of the way he defended OJ, not just bcs he was the defense lawyer. If she become notable, we can revert the redirect- that's why I said it should probably be redirected, and not deleted, bcs her notability will be very ambiguous for at least some time. ] (]) 19:31, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | *:::As for Cochrane, he became notable because of the way he defended OJ, not just bcs he was the defense lawyer. If she become notable, we can revert the redirect- that's why I said it should probably be redirected, and not deleted, bcs her notability will be very ambiguous for at least some time. ] (]) 19:31, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
| *::::- Dear @] If you google her name with the modifier "Before December 2024", you get dozens of articles that would qualify her for an article. Please look here, friends https://www.google.com/search?q=karen+friedman+agnifilo+before:2024-12-01&sca_esv=0abcab0091fd1269&tbm=nws&sxsrf=ADLYWIKOECi4pbSqwH6BXo6Farq5uIqUCw:1735248979949&ei=U8xtZ5rBOY-j5NoP8ZDG2Qw&start=10&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwjatq-YssaKAxWPEVkFHXGIMcsQ8NMDegQIBhAK&biw=1920&bih=911&dpr=1 ] (]) 21:40, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:We cannot base notability on predictions about future events. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 19:09, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | *:We cannot base notability on predictions about future events. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 19:09, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
| *::To avoid losing the content in the event that the subject gains more notability in the future, '''draftifying''' is also an option. The current title can then be redirected. ~ ] (]) 19:20, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | *::To avoid losing the content in the event that the subject gains more notability in the future, '''draftifying''' is also an option. The current title can then be redirected. ~ ] (]) 19:20, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
| *:::A redirect won't actually remove the page history, so there is no need to draftify it. ] (]) 19:33, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::::You’re right, my bad haha. ~ ] (]) 22:39, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| * '''Mild keep''' based on her notability on TV and other media prior to the Mangione case. ~ ] (]) 18:24, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | * '''Mild keep''' based on her notability on TV and other media prior to the Mangione case. ~ ] (]) 18:24, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
| *'''Keep''' because she was very independently ] before Mangione. She starred in the prosecution of ] as the Chief Assistant ]. Her reputation precedes her by a long way. There are many ] and ] about her. ] (]) 19:36, 26 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Keep''' - Just from skimming her article (which are filled with sources discussing her life and career before taking on Mangione's case), she: | |||
| *::"is a frequent legal analyst on television networks, including CNN and MSNBC" | |||
| *::"serves as a legal advisor for the television show Law & Order" | |||
| *::"worked in the Manhattan District Attorney's Office for over 20 years, holding several senior roles" | |||
| *::"From 2014 to 2021, served as Chief Assistant District Attorney, the second-highest position in the office. In this role, she oversaw more than 500 attorneys and played a significant role in high-profile cases." | |||
| *::"served as General Counsel to the New York City Mayor's Office of Criminal Justice during Michael Bloomberg's administration." | |||
| *::"helped develop Manhattan's first Mental Health Court" | |||
| *::"co-hosts a weekly legal podcast and YouTube channel, called MissTrial, on the MeidasTouch network" | |||
| *:She's mentioned in numerous reliable sources before 2024, and appears more notable (and accomplished) than some of the people listed in <nowiki>]</nowiki>. All of that plus her taking on Mangione's case (which, in addition to giving her more national attention, is now giving her international attention) tips the scale in her passing the ] guidelines. ] (]) 01:22, 27 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:All trivial mentions, nothing in detail or focused on her before this month though. Mangione's case probably falls under ] like I stated in the nom statement. ] (]) 07:51, 30 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *::She's a defense attorney with over two decades experience at the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, co-hosts two legal podcasts, is a legal advisor for ''Law & Order'', and is a frequent legal analyst on ''CNN'' and ''MSNBC''. Redirecting her page to Luigi Mangione's article makes it seem like her being his defense attorney is the only thing she's "notable" for. That's not accurate and doesn't help readers. Also, this linked by Richard Yin above is noteworthy. ] (]) 12:34, 30 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *:::I am not saying that she is not a big lawyer. I'm just saying that the only thing that would make her ] (she is notable, but Misplaced Pages uses a different criteria) is ] thing only. Interviews are not always considered reliable, even if published in a reliable source. ] (]) 13:09, 30 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| *'''Delete or Redirect''' Per nomination and comments. ] (]) 21:45, 28 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :'''Delete''' The subject does not seem all that prominent. ] (]) 21:48, 28 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| :'''Keep''' To be honest, she should've had an article before the case anyway ] (]) 22:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| {{clear}} | |||
| :''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's ] or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page.''<!--Template:Afd bottom--></div> | |||
Latest revision as of 23:17, 2 January 2025
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Beeblebrox 23:17, 2 January 2025 (UTC)
Karen Friedman Agnifilo
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This should probably be redirected to Luigi Mangione, as her only WP:notable action has been defending Mangione. So, WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BLP1E most likely apply. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 13:11, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Law, and New York. Shellwood (talk) 13:17, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
Redirect per nom and WP:BLP1E to the article of the individual that the subject is notable for having represented. --Richard Yin (talk) 13:35, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- Changing to keep. Most references are trivial mentions, but this is a pretty lengthy 2021 article about the subject in the New York Law Journal, which seems like a reliable source by my reading of WP:RSLAW. --Richard Yin (talk) 23:18, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to the article on Luigi Mangione. WP:BLP1E. Lack material for WP:V. QEnigma talk 14:09, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect as she is only notable for one thing. History6042😊 (Contact me) 15:54, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Luigi Mangione. Procyon117 (talk) 16:16, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- Comment It seems as though if she weren't involved in the case of Luigi Mangione, she would have only had inherited notability via her husband (hate to say it that way but that's how it appears). Perhaps in the future she will have independent notability. Trillfendi (talk) 17:49, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. With all respect to the nominator, I strongly disagree. Would you say that Johnny Cochrane defending OJ was not notable? This will be, and already is one of the most high profile cases in the entire world, and her name will be looked up on wikipedia constantly. Furthermore, she has plenty of independent notability before the case, with her working for the DA's office of Manhattan, working on Law and Order, and her popular podcasts. Those references have been added in. Please look at them. PaulPachad (talk) 17:54, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- @PaulPachad: Could you please provide independent reliable sources that provided significant coverage of Agnifilo that were published before December 2024? GoingBatty (talk) 18:03, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, they were added in. PaulPachad (talk) 18:13, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- There are only trivial mentions of her before this month- there was no WP:SIGCOV of her before, just mentions of her or her podcasts in passing more or less.
- As for Cochrane, he became notable because of the way he defended OJ, not just bcs he was the defense lawyer. If she become notable, we can revert the redirect- that's why I said it should probably be redirected, and not deleted, bcs her notability will be very ambiguous for at least some time. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 19:31, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- - Dear @DoctorWhoFan91 If you google her name with the modifier "Before December 2024", you get dozens of articles that would qualify her for an article. Please look here, friends https://www.google.com/search?q=karen+friedman+agnifilo+before:2024-12-01&sca_esv=0abcab0091fd1269&tbm=nws&sxsrf=ADLYWIKOECi4pbSqwH6BXo6Farq5uIqUCw:1735248979949&ei=U8xtZ5rBOY-j5NoP8ZDG2Qw&start=10&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwjatq-YssaKAxWPEVkFHXGIMcsQ8NMDegQIBhAK&biw=1920&bih=911&dpr=1 PaulPachad (talk) 21:40, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, they were added in. PaulPachad (talk) 18:13, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- We cannot base notability on predictions about future events. Kingturtle = (talk) 19:09, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- To avoid losing the content in the event that the subject gains more notability in the future, draftifying is also an option. The current title can then be redirected. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:20, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- A redirect won't actually remove the page history, so there is no need to draftify it. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 19:33, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- You’re right, my bad haha. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 22:39, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- A redirect won't actually remove the page history, so there is no need to draftify it. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 19:33, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- To avoid losing the content in the event that the subject gains more notability in the future, draftifying is also an option. The current title can then be redirected. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 19:20, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- @PaulPachad: Could you please provide independent reliable sources that provided significant coverage of Agnifilo that were published before December 2024? GoingBatty (talk) 18:03, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- Mild keep based on her notability on TV and other media prior to the Mangione case. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 18:24, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- Keep because she was very independently WP:N before Mangione. She starred in the prosecution of Harvey Weinstein as the Chief Assistant District Attorney. Her reputation precedes her by a long way. There are many WP:V and WP:RS about her. IZAK (talk) 19:36, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
- Keep - Just from skimming her article (which are filled with sources discussing her life and career before taking on Mangione's case), she:
- "is a frequent legal analyst on television networks, including CNN and MSNBC"
- "serves as a legal advisor for the television show Law & Order"
- "worked in the Manhattan District Attorney's Office for over 20 years, holding several senior roles"
- "From 2014 to 2021, served as Chief Assistant District Attorney, the second-highest position in the office. In this role, she oversaw more than 500 attorneys and played a significant role in high-profile cases."
- "served as General Counsel to the New York City Mayor's Office of Criminal Justice during Michael Bloomberg's administration."
- "helped develop Manhattan's first Mental Health Court"
- "co-hosts a weekly legal podcast and YouTube channel, called MissTrial, on the MeidasTouch network"
- She's mentioned in numerous reliable sources before 2024, and appears more notable (and accomplished) than some of the people listed in ]. All of that plus her taking on Mangione's case (which, in addition to giving her more national attention, is now giving her international attention) tips the scale in her passing the Misplaced Pages:Notability guidelines. Some1 (talk) 01:22, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
- All trivial mentions, nothing in detail or focused on her before this month though. Mangione's case probably falls under WP:BLP1E like I stated in the nom statement. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 07:51, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
- She's a defense attorney with over two decades experience at the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, co-hosts two legal podcasts, is a legal advisor for Law & Order, and is a frequent legal analyst on CNN and MSNBC. Redirecting her page to Luigi Mangione's article makes it seem like her being his defense attorney is the only thing she's "notable" for. That's not accurate and doesn't help readers. Also, this 2021 interview with the New York Law Journal linked by Richard Yin above is noteworthy. Some1 (talk) 12:34, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
- I am not saying that she is not a big lawyer. I'm just saying that the only thing that would make her WP:Notable (she is notable, but Misplaced Pages uses a different criteria) is one thing only. Interviews are not always considered reliable, even if published in a reliable source. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 13:09, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
- She's a defense attorney with over two decades experience at the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, co-hosts two legal podcasts, is a legal advisor for Law & Order, and is a frequent legal analyst on CNN and MSNBC. Redirecting her page to Luigi Mangione's article makes it seem like her being his defense attorney is the only thing she's "notable" for. That's not accurate and doesn't help readers. Also, this 2021 interview with the New York Law Journal linked by Richard Yin above is noteworthy. Some1 (talk) 12:34, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
- Delete or Redirect Per nomination and comments. Go4thProsper (talk) 21:45, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
- Delete The subject does not seem all that prominent. 80.200.94.240 (talk) 21:48, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
- Keep To be honest, she should've had an article before the case anyway Personisinsterest (talk) 22:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.