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==Intro debate (doing one thing after the other)== | |||
|action3date=16:20, 5 November 2007 | |||
|action3link=Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Preity Zinta/archive1 | |||
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''Preity Zinta (Hindi: प्रीति ज़िंटा, Urdu: پریتی زینتا. Pronunciation: /priːti ziɳʈaː/ born 31 January 1975) is an award-winning Indian actress who appears in popular Bollywood movies. She is among the most successful actresses in the industry, and is regarded as one of the biggest names in India. Zinta has primarily acted in mainstream cinema having the biggest hits of the last years, but has also done some critically acclaimed films. Today, she has the highest number of grossing films than any other actress of her generation. Zinta has also worked in the Tollywood industry.'' | |||
|action4date=17:27, 9 November 2007 | |||
|action4link=Misplaced Pages:Good article reassessment/Archive 32 | |||
|action4result=delisted | |||
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|action5=PR | |||
Comments: Don't know about the Hindi and Urdu. ''Award-winning Indian actress'' is fine, I'd crop "popular". Her movies are not popular with everyone. How about: | |||
|action5date=11:10, 14 December 2007 | |||
|action5link=Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Preity Zinta/archive1 | |||
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::... actress who is primarly working in the Indian movie industry popularly known as Bollywood. | |||
|action6date=16:21, 13 February 2008 | |||
|action6link=Talk:Preity Zinta/Archive_7#Failed Good Article Nomination | |||
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''Successful'' is correct, ''biggest names'' is a bit unencyclopaedic. No ordinary encyclopaedia says "biggest names". If one sees her award section, they'll know how "big" she is. | |||
|action7date=20:24, 25 February 2008 | |||
|action7link=Misplaced Pages:Good article reassessment/Preity Zinta/1 | |||
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Next thing, how about: Zinta is successfully working in mainstream cinema. I'd crop the "critically acclaimed"-part. Her awards show how "critically acclaimed" she is. | |||
|action8date=22:20, 12 April 2008 | |||
|action8link=Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Preity Zinta/archive2 | |||
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::''Today, she has the highest number of grossing films than any other actress of her generation.'' | |||
|action9date=01:36, 27 May 2008 | |||
This can change with any movie. It's too unstable, so I suggest to leave it out. Same thing for the Tollywood part. How many Tollywood movies did she do? One? Not notable. | |||
|action9link=Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Preity Zinta | |||
|action9result=promoted | |||
|action9oldid=214996493 | |||
|topic=Socsci | |||
Please, please comment. | |||
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|maindate=December 23, 2008 | |||
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Best regards,--] <sup>]</sup> 17:22, 22 April 2007 (UTC) | |||
|action10date = 13:04, 11 April 2022 | |||
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== External links modified (January 2018) == | |||
:I see Plum's picked up the lead para. I agree with everything here, especially the Tollywood movie - I always wondered why it had to be in the lead. It can be mentioned in the career as a one-liner and later in the filmography, its unneccessary to have it in the lead. Regards,<span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">] | ] </span> 17:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC) | |||
Hello fellow Wikipedians, | |||
::"''Primarily acting''" and "''critically acclaimed''" "''Mainstream cinema''" are not always seen in the awards sections. I think they should be kept. They are so neutral. If I`m not wrong, Pa7 has written that. Not me. It`s not overdone. and please keep the critically acclaimed. | |||
I have just modified one external link on ]. Please take a moment to review ]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes: | |||
::''Biggest names''. I like it cause it`s true and unique statement. Anyway, it was posted there when there was a war of statements between me, Shez and other users. So I put this as well as Shez put his one (today she has emerged...) in Rani`s page. To be honest, both of us know that it`s true. She is mentioned everywhere. We don`t say THE biggest name, just ONE OF. never mind. Let`s discuss it. | |||
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060323185651/http://www.businesswireindia.com/PressRelease.asp?b2mid=9273 to http://www.businesswireindia.com/PressRelease.asp?b2mid=9273 | |||
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. | |||
::''Today, she has the highest number of grossing films than any other actress of her generation.'' | |||
::'''This can change with any movie.''' This could change undoubtly, but it hasn`t changed yet. This fact expresses her success at the B.O. Who knows, all her films this year would the highest grossing films. wouldn`t it? | |||
{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}} | |||
::OK, popular films is a little bit worthless. If we say she is popular, so it`s clear that she has popular films. Fine. | |||
Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 02:50, 28 January 2018 (UTC) | |||
::Yes, if you say primarily acting in bollywood, it means she`s worked out too. | |||
== Date of birth == | |||
::Best Regards:-) --] 18:43, 22 April 2007 (UTC) | |||
Your attention is drawn to on ] by {{u|The Rambling Man}} : "{{xt|wow, just wow, an FA! The one and only source for her birth date implies she was born on 31 March}}". Per ] and ], please do '''not''' change it without a high-quality reliable source. It is unacceptable that such unverified claims on living people exist in a ] - if this is typical of the article's factual accuracy, we should raise a ] and get it thoroughly re-checked, or delisted. ] ] ] 11:52, 31 January 2018 (UTC) | |||
Here is my version as for now: | |||
Don't be an arse {{u|Ritchie333}}, no need for that tone. This has had a ''lot'' of thought gone into it, though I've not looked at it much over the last ten years! {{u|Shshshsh}} I'm sure will answer this one.♦ ] 12:14, 31 January 2018 (UTC) | |||
''Preity Zinta (Hindi: प्रीति ज़िंटा, Urdu: پریتی زینتا. Pronunciation: /priːti ziɳʈaː/ born 31 January 1975) is an award-winning Indian actress primarly working in Bollywood. She is among the most successful actresses in the industry, and is regarded as one of the biggest names in India. Zinta has primarily acted in mainstream cinema, but has also done some critically acclaimed films. Today, she has the highest number of grossing films than any other actress of her generation.'' | |||
:I'm sorry, I don't understand what tone problems there are above (unless you're talking about TRM's comment, in which case he'll answer for himself) - but ] is one of the most serious policies we must adhere to - we ''have'' to get the article right. ] ] ] 14:15, 31 January 2018 (UTC) | |||
What do you think?! Much more neutral. Don`t you think? | |||
Why don`t you write your brief version. Common guys! I`m enjoying. --] 18:59, 22 April 2007 (UTC) | |||
she's been celebrating her birthday.♦ ] 15:09, 31 January 2018 (UTC) | |||
''Zinta has primarily acted in mainstream cinema, but has also done some critically acclaimed films.'' | |||
:: I don't know - it kinda sounds like "If it's mainstream, it cannot be critically acclaimed." as if mainstream excludes "critcally acclaimed". Maybe we could rephrase it? Best regards, --] <sup>]</sup> 21:22, 22 April 2007 (UTC) PS. You get my suggestion and the answers to your questions on my talk page tomorrow, Shahid, as I have a paper due on Tuesday and am kinda about to panic. ;) | |||
:Thanks Blof, for stepping in. The mistake was on the Tribune article, not on this page. Mistakes happen, and I might have missed it. I obviously know for a fact that today is her birthday (from interviews and other stuff) but a proper source was just added. Twitter of course shows her celebrating with her friends and thanking her fans and followers for their birthday wishes, which is another piece of evidence. ] • <sup>'']''</sup> 19:14, 31 January 2018 (UTC) | |||
:::Yes I don`t have a problem rephrasing that. I don`t know, I like this statement so much. this ''critically acclaimed films'' is so neutral. We didn`t even say that she is acclaimed. We said that she had some critically acclaimed FILMS. In other words she was a part of an acclaimed film. Don`t you think? Anyway give me your rephrase. Best Regards. --] 09:59, 23 April 2007 (UTC) | |||
::Thanks for that, Sahid. I was having difficulty determining which date was right, and frustrated that people were just reverting without supplying an additional source. Unfortunately the confusion has meant she couldn't be featured on the main page today. :-( ] ] ] 22:09, 31 January 2018 (UTC) | |||
== My suggestion for a new career sections == | |||
== Recent removal of content == | |||
User:Melcous sourced content which had been discussed by numerous editors before, without discussing it. Sourced content was removed, and sources were removed as well. If anything, the lead is a summary and not a review, it takes into consideration Zinta's work as discussed later on in the article, and not her achievements as suggested by Melcous. The information that was removed includes: | |||
:::The previous version is a little bit tasteless. I don't really understand why the "2005-present" has been separated from the whole ''Success'' section. | |||
*"After graduating with degrees in ] and ]" - why is that wrong? | |||
*The mention of some films being "top-grossing production" and one being her biggest commercial success, is nothing but an objective representation of facts, which are properly sourced. | |||
*"she is a social activist, a television presenter, and a regular stage performer" - a fair description of additional work she has done. | |||
*"These controversies include her being the only witness not to retract in court her earlier statements against the ] during the 2003 ] case, for which she was awarded the ]." - a highly publicized case which was, at the time, reported all over the Indian and the international press. | |||
*A tag was added for the claim that "her film roles along with her screen persona have been credited with contributing to a change in the concept of a Hindi film heroine, and won her several accolades" - if you look at the "Media image and artistry" section, you will see proper references to who exactly said it - critics' reviews of her impact appear in that section, quotes from books and media reports. One such example is the book 'Once Upon a Time in Bollywood', according to which Zinta "resists patriarchal constraints through her modern lifestyle and the controversial roles she chooses." There's no doubt that since then, actresses like Vidya Balan have raised the bar even further, but her work seems to have contributed to this change in the long run. | |||
*"These accomplishments have established her as a leading actress of Hindi cinema" - I wonder why it's considered a problem if it's backed up by sources - should Misplaced Pages be apologetic in view of actors' success? Success is not a bad word, if its use is justified and supported by reliable sources, I can't see why mentioning it is a problem (as long as it's overused). Take another FA, ], which says, "As a public figure, Jolie has been cited as one of the most influential and powerful people in the American entertainment industry. For a number of years, she was cited as the world's most beautiful woman by various media outlets, and her personal life is the subject of wide publicity." - I see nothing which is subjective there, these are actual facts. | |||
*The Early life section had been trimmed and shortened prior to the FAC. The information of Zinta's childhood is very much relevant in a biographical page about her. | |||
*The addition of the peacock tag is in my book pure ]. There isn't a single instance where the article makes independent claims, which are not attributed to secondary sources. Even critics' reviews are used to the most objective effect - the article shows such remarks where critics describe her as a "teenybopper", an "ornament", "insufferable", and "a shadow of her past". It even mentions a "marked period of decline in her popularity" (which perhaps should be mentioned in the lead as well). | |||
The article has been copyedited by numerous editors, and the relevance of each piece of information was observed before it was finally included. As you can see, it is well-balanced. If there's disagreement, that's why we have this talk page for. Such massive removal of content must be discussed first, particularly considering the fact that its inclusion is nothing but pure consensus - going through the FAC, the archives of this very talk page, might help. We had a similar debate on ] with {{user|Krimuk2.0}}, the writer of several BLP featured articles on actresses, and I'd take this opportunity to call his attention to this page as well, as this seems to be quite uncalled-for practice by some users off late. ] • <sup>'']''</sup> 14:54, 6 April 2018 (UTC) | |||
::Absolutely, Shahid. You have my full support. This culture of tagging and removing well-cited information from articles is very harmful. There's a reason why a process such as the FAC exists, and editors must exhibit caution when they go on a cutting spree. Of course there is scope for improvement, but it needs to be constructive; the talk page exists for that very reason. Do these editors really think that adding tags help in any way? | |||
:::My suggestion is like this: | |||
::Coming to Zinta, I'm in agreement with your restorations, Shahid. This article has been a gold-standard for most of us who work on Indian film-related articles, and as a young editor many moons ago, it set a template for me to expand articles of Zinta's contemporaries, several of which are now FAs. As for the issues highlighted, I have to opine that this article ''is'' neutrally written, that Zinta ''did'' achieve the highest praise and fame that an actress in India could achieve in the 2000s, and that both Mukerji and Zinta were responsible for more urbane, modern representation of Indian women on screen, which the article rightfully says "go against Indian traditional mores". All of which has been verified by multiple ]. | |||
:::* Since Zinta's career has been running very fast in the last 9 years, her ''Early Career'' would be 1998-1999. We can expand it a little, by adding some information about the beginning of her work. | |||
::As Shahid pointed out above, yes, there has been a significant decline in her popularity since 2007 due to the blatant sexism and ageism against so-called "older" women in the industry, but that doesn't take away from the significant achievements of Zinta in the early 2000s. Anyway, I hope that this matter can now be resolved, and that we can all find better a use of our time on Misplaced Pages -- which is to say we expand articles and not tag and butcher the already expanded, FA-class ones. | |||
:::* Kya Kehna was the ''Breakthrough'' of her career in the full sense of the word. She received her first nomination for Best Actress and it was her first hit which is also her solo release. | |||
::P.S: Shahid, I must add that I'm repeatedly surprised at your ability to handle difficult situations with such remarkable patience. Very inspiring, indeed. ] (]) 07:18, 7 April 2018 (UTC) | |||
:::* Undoubtly, in 2003, came the success. She was the most successful actress of the year, winning awards and acting in the biggest films of the year. | |||
== A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion == | |||
:::So, that's the reason I'm doing that. If we use, 2005-Present in a separate section it sounds like all the success has gone since then till date. But the truth is that the actress had hits - every year, nominations - every year, and I believe this yer she will be even more successful. | |||
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: | |||
* ]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2018-09-06T07:36:48.057617 | Preity-Zinta-20.jpg --> | |||
Participate in the deletion discussion at the ]. —] (]) 07:36, 6 September 2018 (UTC) | |||
== A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion == | |||
:::I waited for Pa_7 to hear her opinion, that's why I didn't put into action my edit intents yesterday. Please Pa_7 discuss here your thoughts. Best Regards --] 13:24, 9 May 2007 (UTC) | |||
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: | |||
* ]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2019-08-22T23:07:13.312791 | Zinta MIFF11.jpg --> | |||
Participate in the deletion discussion at the ]. —] (]) 23:07, 22 August 2019 (UTC) | |||
== A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion == | |||
== Automatic Peer Review == | |||
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: | |||
* ]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2019-11-07T16:22:12.486738 | Preity Zinta New Dp.jpg --> | |||
Participate in the deletion discussion at the ]. —] (]) 16:22, 7 November 2019 (UTC) | |||
== Addition == | |||
'''As per ] - automatic peer review'''<br/> | |||
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic ], and might not be applicable for the article in question. | |||
*Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at ]. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on ], and should adequately summarize the article.<sup>]]</sup> | |||
*Per ] and ], months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide ] for the article.<sup>]]</sup> | |||
*This article has no ]. Please see if there are any ] images that fall under the ] and fit under one of the ] that can be uploaded. To upload images on Misplaced Pages, go to ]; to upload non-] images on the ], go to ].<sup>]]</sup> | |||
*See if possible if there is a ] image that can go on the top right corner of this article.<sup>]]</sup> | |||
*If this article is about a person, please add <code><nowiki>{{persondata|PLEASE SEE ]!}}</nowiki></code> along with the required parameters to the article - see ] for more information.<sup>]]</sup> | |||
*Generally, trivia sections are looked down upon; please either remove the trivia section or incorporate any important facts into the rest of the article.<sup>]]</sup> | |||
*Per ], this article's table of contents (ToC) may be too long- consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per ].<sup>]]</sup> | |||
*There are a few occurrences of ]s in this article- please observe ]. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view. | |||
**''allege'' | |||
**might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper ] (if they already do, or are not weasel terms, please <strike>strike</strike> this comment).<sup>]]</sup> <!--This javascript cannot determine if a citation is provided; if all weasel terms are covered by citations, please strike this--> | |||
*Watch for ] that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's ].) | |||
**While additive terms like “also”, “in addition”, “additionally”, “moreover”, and “furthermore” may sometimes be useful, overusing them when they aren't necessary can instead detract from the brilliancy of the article. This article has 19 additive terms, a bit too much. | |||
*Avoid using contractions like (outside of quotations): ''wasn't''. | |||
*As done in ], footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the ], but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, ''the sun is larger than the moon .'' is usually written as ''the sun is larger than the moon.''<sup>]]</sup> | |||
*Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of ]. See also ].<sup>]]</sup> | |||
You may wish to browse through ] for further ideas. Thanks, <span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">] | ] </span> 06:29, 12 May 2007 (UTC) | |||
Dear Lectonar I work as an agency representative of Preity Zinta. So she had personally requested to make these changes to her wikipedia page] but these changes keep getting reverted: | |||
:Put this here as it might help the article. Regards,<span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">] | ] </span> 06:29, 12 May 2007 (UTC) | |||
:I'd also like to add that theres no need to name every single ref tag that is used in the article. Only refs that are used more than once need a name, not all of them. Regards,<span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">] | ] </span> 06:30, 12 May 2007 (UTC) | |||
These changes are requested by her : | |||
== International fame == | |||
1. | image = New Priety Zinta by Abhishek Pate.jpg | |||
"Moreover, Zinta is very popular in the Middle East countries, like Afganistan. Her portraits became covers of mirrors of Kabul's beauty salons and music and video shops and restaurants, along with other Bollywood stars such as Sharukh Khan and Madhuri Dixit. She is also famous in Netherlands" | |||
| caption = PrietyZinta in 2019 | |||
2. Following ''Heaven on Earth'', Preity Zinta was highest-paid actress till 2008, when she decided to take a break from cinema/acting and into sports business by investing in a ].<ref>{{cite news|title=Will soon return to films, says Preity|url=http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-newdelhi/will-return-to-films-soon-says-preity/article1531036.ece|newspaper=The Hindu|date=12 March 2011|accessdate=10 August 2011|agency=Press Trust of India}}</ref> | |||
:This fact was there for a long time, but user xC objects to have it here. However, he/she didn't remove it from the page of ]. I think Dixit deserves to have it. She is really popular and has a big and well honoured career. I know Zinta hasn't beaten Dixit's records, but if she also appears in the reference which describes the fact, why not mentioning it in her page too? I don't know why, but xC didn't have a look on Dixit's page and didn't remove it from her page like he did with Zinta. I see this fact remained on Dixit's page, so it remains here too. I like Dixit a lot, but I think it would be unfair to remove something from Zinta's page, while ignoring the existance of the same fact in Dixit's page. Best Regards. --] 10:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC) | |||
3. </ref> ] of ] magazine called the film Goofy Zany and Outrageously Fun<ref>{{cite news|work=] |date=26 November 2018 |title=Bhaiaji Superhit Movie Review |author=Subhash K Jha |accessdate=1 December 2018 |url=https://bollyspice.com/bhaiaji-superhit-is-goofy-zany-outrageous-fun-a-subhash-k-jha-review }}</ref> | |||
(Following a five-year sabbatical, Zinta starred opposite Sunny Deol as an aggressive Varanasi-based wife in Neeraj Pathak's action comedy '']'' (2018).<ref>{{cite news|url=http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hindi/bollywood/news/Preity-Zinta-starts-shooting-for-Bhaiyyaji-Superhitt/articleshow/53432147.cms|newspaper=The Times of India|title=Preity Zinta starts shooting for 'Bhaiyyaji Superhitt'|agency=Indo-Asian News Service|date=28 January 2017|accessdate=28 May 2017|url-status=dead|archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20160803045741/http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hindi/bollywood/news/Preity-Zinta-starts-shooting-for-Bhaiyyaji-Superhitt/articleshow/53432147.cms|archivedate=3 August 2016}}</ref> ] of ] magazine called the film Goofy Zany and Outrageously Fun<ref>{{cite news|work=] |date=26 November 2018 |title=Bhaiaji Superhit Movie Review |author=Subhash K Jha |accessdate=1 December 2018 |url=https://bollyspice.com/bhaiaji-superhit-is-goofy-zany-outrageous-fun-a-subhash-k-jha-review }}</ref>) | |||
4. ===Selected filmography=== | |||
* '']'' (2006) | |||
* '']'' (2006) | |||
* '']'' (2006) | |||
* '']'' (2007) | |||
* '']'' (2007) | |||
* '']'' (2008) | |||
* '']'' (2008) | |||
* '']'' (2008) | |||
* '']'' (2008) | |||
* '']'' (2009) | |||
* '']'' (2013) | |||
* '']'' (2014) | |||
* '']'' (2016) | |||
* '']'' (2017) | |||
* '']'' (2018) | |||
}} | |||
:As I have been contacted by ] on my talk-page, I find it appropriate to move the request here. I have no knowledge of the subject. ] (]) 07:34, 18 November 2019 (UTC) | |||
{{reflist-talk}} | |||
== International Fame == | |||
== Change Infobox Image And Caption == | |||
I had brought this point up before, however ] insists on putting it back. The following content does not deserve place in an encyclopedia article- | |||
<blockquote> | |||
Moreover, Zinta is very popular in the ] countries, like ]. Her portraits became covers of mirrors of Kabul's beauty salons and music and video shops and restaurants, along with other Bollywood stars such as ] and ].<ref name="Popular Preity">{{cite web|title=thehindubusinessline.com|work= Preity popular in Afganistan|url=http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2005/05/09/stories/2005050900561400.htm|accessdaymonth=10 April|accessyear=2007}}</ref> | |||
The Infobox has an outdated image of Priety Zinta. | |||
She is also famous in ]<ref name="Popular in Holland">{{cite web|title=youtube.com|work= Preity popular in Holland|url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzGbYx81LKk|accessdaymonth=17 April|accessyear=2007}}</ref> | |||
</blockquote> | |||
As per her request she wants the following change: | |||
Let us first look at the Middle East countries portion.The reasons why it should not be included fall in three categories- | |||
#The text itself | |||
#The reference used to support it | |||
#Implications of adding this text | |||
Old Image | |||
'''1. The text itself -''' | |||
| image = Preity Zinta by Ash Gupta.jpg | |||
To | |||
*''Zinta is very popular'' - why ''very''? That is POV. Who decides her popularity? Do you have statistics showing that she is ''very'' popular? | |||
*''Her portraits became covers of mirrors of Kabul's beauty salons and music and video shops and restaurants'' - Is she the only celebrity whose portraits are used in beauty salons and shops? No she is not, so this is non-notable. | |||
*''along with other Bollywood stars such as ] and ]'' - that explains the very same thing. She is an actress. Just like the actresses whose portraits are used, hers are used as well. Why is this notable? | |||
*This very same discussion has taken place before (refer to Archive2). I will repeat my concerns which I had raised earlier- | |||
**Are the mirrors of Kabul's beauty salons notable? They are not, so why should their details feature in this article? | |||
**Portraits of celebrities are used all the time, including in salons, shops, etc. Is it notable to write down exactly where all her portraits are used? | |||
| image = Priety_Zinta_2019.jpg | |||
'''(2) The reference used to support it-''' | |||
Old Caption | |||
*The reference used to support the above text is - . | |||
| caption = Zinta in 2018 | |||
*Lets look at that first paragraph in the ref. It is written - <blockquote>WHETHER it's a muddy, broken road in the historic town of Bamiyan, about 250 km from Kabul, or a bustling street in Kabul, at shops, stores, and particularly hair dressing saloons, big portraits of Shahrukh Khan, Ajay Devgan, Sunny Deol, Aishwarya Rai, Preity Zinta, Madhuri Dixit and scores of others greet you.</blockquote> | |||
:#Khan, Deol, Rai, Zinta, Dixit are mentioned and alongwith that is written ''scores of others''. She is not the only one mentioned in that article. She is not wildly popular that to the extent that all other filmstars are forgotten. She is just another filmstar among the ''scores'' that the people there like to watch. It is not just about Zinta. Remove. | |||
:#The entire ref talks of Bollywood as a whole, and not Zinta in particular. In other words, using this reference and putting in these lines is fine for the page discussing Bollywood in general, but it tells us nothing about Zinta in particular. Remove. | |||
:#The reference talks about Kabul. Why exactly should the beauty salons of Kabul be mentioned in the article? Why are the mirrors of Kabul so important that they and their details deserve space in an encyclopedia article? Remove. | |||
*Now I have discussed the leading paragraph. If we search for the name ''Zinta'', we find that actually it is only mentioned twice in the entire ref. The first is in the leading paragraph, where she is mentioned as one among the ''scores''. The other is right at the bottom. I will copypaste the entire paragraph where it is taken from- <blockquote>"I simply adore Shahrukh Khan and loved his film Devdas. And your Preity Zinta is so beautiful. My dream is to come to India and meet Shahrukh Khan. And Indian music is great... I love listening to Lata Mangeshkar's songs. If I can ever meet her, I'll think I'm in paradise!"</blockquote> | |||
:#The entire thing is a quote from an individual. Who is this individual? The article tells us that she is ''Nilab Sadat is a beautiful young woman, who had to flee to Peshawar in Pakistan during the Taliban era to continue her education''. Why is she notable? She believes that Zinta is very beautiful, and she is. Does that mean we put in this quote into the article? No, we should not. Remove. | |||
:#Zinta is only mentioned twice in the entire article - first among half a dozen other names, and second in a quote from a non-notable individual. What exactly does this page prove then? All it shows is that Bollywood might be popular in Kabul, and that there is some individual named Nilab Sadat who believes Zinta is beautiful. Based on this, why should we keep this particular content in the article? Remove. | |||
To | |||
'''(3) Implications of adding this text-''' | |||
| caption = Preity Zinta in 2019 | |||
#The mirrors and their posters are non-notable. Adding them in means that every such reference which talks about anything even trivially related to a film-star would have to be added into an article, simply because its noted so. Theres a public toilet near an old school I know which had a picture of Rajnikant and a poster of Shah Rukh Khan stuck on it. Does that mean we add in those ''facts'' to the article? It is a fact that those posters have been stuck on the public toilets, but does that add value to the article? What encyclopedic knowledge do the readers gain by knowing about these mirrors and their posters? Allowing this content to remain would set a poor example in terms of quality of the encyclopedia, therefore it should not be included. | |||
#Right now we are discussing Kabul, next on the list is Netherlands. Then it will be some other country. Soon we'll have a paragraph full of countries whose names have been mentioned. Then we'll end up having a ''List of countries where Preity Zinta is popular''. It is unencyclopedic to have such a list. Therefore remove. | |||
#Mentioning popularity in a country also has other problems. Firstly, it is not universal popularity, ie. there will be people in that country who do not like her, or are not fans of her. So it would be misleading on our part to say that she is popular in the country as a whole. | |||
#Popularity is a very difficult thing to establish. Film-stars which are popular one minute can fall out of public favour the next, there are no statistics to establish sure-shot popularity and the concept of popularity as a whole is largely subjective. For example, the entire reference used is from the point of view of the journalist who wrote the article. On the other hand, market statistics, box office records, details about the films,etc. these are all verifiable solid facts. As an encyclopedia, we must deal with facts and not subjective opinions. | |||
== Main image == | |||
Now we can look at the portion stating her fame in the Netherlands, with given as a reference. Firstly, I believe as per ] that ''youtube'' does not qualify as a reliable source. Secondly, all the points of ''Implications of adding this text'' hold true for this sentence as well. Simply adding names of countries where she is famous and/or popular does not add anything of value to the encyclopedia article. | |||
Apologies, I thought Shahid had been reverted. I do think the older image is more suitable though.† ] 14:21, 12 October 2020 (UTC) | |||
Both these additions would be useful on a fanpage, or fansite devoted to Zinta. It might be interesting there as an entertainment list. However we are writing an encyclopedia article. Such additions bring down the quality of the content, and reduce how respectable the article is, and so should be removed. | |||
==Goodenough== | |||
Looking forward to all editors comments on the same, | |||
] Yesterday I removed information about Goodenough's profession because this page is not about him. It was restored by someone else and the info about his earlier connection with Zinta was added by someone else. But you deleted about how he connected with Zinta. If you are dedicated to removing 'irrelevant' info, then this blatant distraction about his profession needs to be removed first. ] (]) 12:12, 10 January 2022 (UTC) | |||
Regards, <span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">] | ] </span> 11:15, 12 May 2007 (UTC) | |||
:It is not blatant distraction - his occupation is very much relevant - we're presenting her husband and his basic background. Him having an opinion about Zinta's earlier controversy is not. ] • <sup>'']''</sup> 12:30, 10 January 2022 (UTC) | |||
::It is distraction because he is not notable thus any details about him unrelated to the main subject violate ]. Your reasoning about calling the coverage he got by reliable sources for being a witness in a report filed by Zinta sounds nothing more than ]. ] (]) 12:39, 10 January 2022 (UTC) | |||
:::First, consensus must be reached before information that has been here for years is removed and similarly, when contentious information is added, so I thank you for reverting yourself and for starting this discussion. No, it's not a case of JDL at all, but a matter of ]. It is relevant who her husband is and what his occupation is, that's very basic. By constrast, it is not relevant where they met and that he was a witness somewhere as it adds no value (the first reaction it evokes is "so?") - their history together is more suitable for magazines. Although maybe it's a matter of wording and we could incorporate it somehow without making it sound out of place. ] • <sup>'']''</sup> 13:17, 10 January 2022 (UTC) | |||
::::And what do you suggest? The IP is certainly correct that the person in the question has been significantly covered "by reliable sources for being a witness in a report" and this is precisely why I included the info. While your reaction would be "so?", my reaction would be "oh he was already well known to Preity Zinta before the marriage". In shorter words, I say this information is more important than his profession. ] (]) 05:56, 11 January 2022 (UTC) | |||
:::::Do you have any doubt she knew him before the marriage? I can give you many other things he was significantly covered for which do not merit a mention here. I see someone's removed the fact he was her "longtime boyfriend" and that could first settle your question. As for him being a witness, well, if they were together at the time then it's merely obvious, unless it was where and how they first met, which would be meaningful and I believe it's not the case. ] • <sup>'']''</sup> 15:58, 11 January 2022 (UTC) |
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Date of birth
Your attention is drawn to this report on WP:ERRORS by The Rambling Man : "wow, just wow, an FA! The one and only source for her birth date implies she was born on 31 March". Per WP:V and WP:BLPSOURCES, please do not change it without a high-quality reliable source. It is unacceptable that such unverified claims on living people exist in a featured article - if this is typical of the article's factual accuracy, we should raise a FA review and get it thoroughly re-checked, or delisted. Ritchie333 11:52, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Don't be an arse Ritchie333, no need for that tone. This has had a lot of thought gone into it, though I've not looked at it much over the last ten years! Shshshsh I'm sure will answer this one.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:14, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, I don't understand what tone problems there are above (unless you're talking about TRM's comment, in which case he'll answer for himself) - but WP:BLPSOURCES is one of the most serious policies we must adhere to - we have to get the article right. Ritchie333 14:15, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Twitter she's been celebrating her birthday.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:09, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks Blof, for stepping in. The mistake was on the Tribune article, not on this page. Mistakes happen, and I might have missed it. I obviously know for a fact that today is her birthday (from interviews and other stuff) but a proper source was just added. Twitter of course shows her celebrating with her friends and thanking her fans and followers for their birthday wishes, which is another piece of evidence. Shahid • 19:14, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for that, Sahid. I was having difficulty determining which date was right, and frustrated that people were just reverting without supplying an additional source. Unfortunately the confusion has meant she couldn't be featured on the main page today. :-( Ritchie333 22:09, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
Recent removal of content
User:Melcous removed sourced content which had been discussed by numerous editors before, without discussing it. Sourced content was removed, and sources were removed as well. If anything, the lead is a summary and not a review, it takes into consideration Zinta's work as discussed later on in the article, and not her achievements as suggested by Melcous. The information that was removed includes:
- "After graduating with degrees in English honours and criminal psychology" - why is that wrong?
- The mention of some films being "top-grossing production" and one being her biggest commercial success, is nothing but an objective representation of facts, which are properly sourced.
- "she is a social activist, a television presenter, and a regular stage performer" - a fair description of additional work she has done.
- "These controversies include her being the only witness not to retract in court her earlier statements against the Indian mafia during the 2003 Bharat Shah case, for which she was awarded the Godfrey Phillips National Bravery Award." - a highly publicized case which was, at the time, reported all over the Indian and the international press.
- A tag was added for the claim that "her film roles along with her screen persona have been credited with contributing to a change in the concept of a Hindi film heroine, and won her several accolades" - if you look at the "Media image and artistry" section, you will see proper references to who exactly said it - critics' reviews of her impact appear in that section, quotes from books and media reports. One such example is the book 'Once Upon a Time in Bollywood', according to which Zinta "resists patriarchal constraints through her modern lifestyle and the controversial roles she chooses." There's no doubt that since then, actresses like Vidya Balan have raised the bar even further, but her work seems to have contributed to this change in the long run.
- "These accomplishments have established her as a leading actress of Hindi cinema" - I wonder why it's considered a problem if it's backed up by sources - should Misplaced Pages be apologetic in view of actors' success? Success is not a bad word, if its use is justified and supported by reliable sources, I can't see why mentioning it is a problem (as long as it's overused). Take another FA, Angelina Jolie, which says, "As a public figure, Jolie has been cited as one of the most influential and powerful people in the American entertainment industry. For a number of years, she was cited as the world's most beautiful woman by various media outlets, and her personal life is the subject of wide publicity." - I see nothing which is subjective there, these are actual facts.
- The Early life section had been trimmed and shortened prior to the FAC. The information of Zinta's childhood is very much relevant in a biographical page about her.
- The addition of the peacock tag is in my book pure wikilawyering. There isn't a single instance where the article makes independent claims, which are not attributed to secondary sources. Even critics' reviews are used to the most objective effect - the article shows such remarks where critics describe her as a "teenybopper", an "ornament", "insufferable", and "a shadow of her past". It even mentions a "marked period of decline in her popularity" (which perhaps should be mentioned in the lead as well).
The article has been copyedited by numerous editors, and the relevance of each piece of information was observed before it was finally included. As you can see, it is well-balanced. If there's disagreement, that's why we have this talk page for. Such massive removal of content must be discussed first, particularly considering the fact that its inclusion is nothing but pure consensus - going through the FAC, the archives of this very talk page, might help. We had a similar debate on Talk:Rani Mukerji with Krimuk2.0 (talk · contribs), the writer of several BLP featured articles on actresses, and I'd take this opportunity to call his attention to this page as well, as this seems to be quite uncalled-for practice by some users off late. Shahid • 14:54, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
- Absolutely, Shahid. You have my full support. This culture of tagging and removing well-cited information from articles is very harmful. There's a reason why a process such as the FAC exists, and editors must exhibit caution when they go on a cutting spree. Of course there is scope for improvement, but it needs to be constructive; the talk page exists for that very reason. Do these editors really think that adding tags help in any way?
- Coming to Zinta, I'm in agreement with your restorations, Shahid. This article has been a gold-standard for most of us who work on Indian film-related articles, and as a young editor many moons ago, it set a template for me to expand articles of Zinta's contemporaries, several of which are now FAs. As for the issues highlighted, I have to opine that this article is neutrally written, that Zinta did achieve the highest praise and fame that an actress in India could achieve in the 2000s, and that both Mukerji and Zinta were responsible for more urbane, modern representation of Indian women on screen, which the article rightfully says "go against Indian traditional mores". All of which has been verified by multiple WP:RS.
- As Shahid pointed out above, yes, there has been a significant decline in her popularity since 2007 due to the blatant sexism and ageism against so-called "older" women in the industry, but that doesn't take away from the significant achievements of Zinta in the early 2000s. Anyway, I hope that this matter can now be resolved, and that we can all find better a use of our time on Misplaced Pages -- which is to say we expand articles and not tag and butcher the already expanded, FA-class ones.
- P.S: Shahid, I must add that I'm repeatedly surprised at your ability to handle difficult situations with such remarkable patience. Very inspiring, indeed. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 07:18, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
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Addition
Dear Lectonar I work as an agency representative of Preity Zinta. So she had personally requested to make these changes to her wikipedia pagePriety Zinta but these changes keep getting reverted:
These changes are requested by her :
1. | image = New Priety Zinta by Abhishek Pate.jpg
| caption = PrietyZinta in 2019
2. Following Heaven on Earth, Preity Zinta was highest-paid actress till 2008, when she decided to take a break from cinema/acting and into sports business by investing in a cricket team in Indian premier league.
3. </ref> Subhash K Jha of Times of India magazine called the film Goofy Zany and Outrageously Fun (Following a five-year sabbatical, Zinta starred opposite Sunny Deol as an aggressive Varanasi-based wife in Neeraj Pathak's action comedy Bhaiaji Superhit (2018). Subhash K Jha of Times of India magazine called the film Goofy Zany and Outrageously Fun)
4. ===Selected filmography===
- Krrish (2006)
- Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna (2006)
- Jaan-E-Mann (2006)
- Jhoom Barabar Jhoom (2007)
- Om Shanti Om (2007)
- The Last Lear (2008)
- Heroes (2008 film) (2008)
- Rab Ne Bana Di Jodi (2008)
- Heaven on Earth (2008 film) (2008)
- Main Aurr Mrs Khanna (2009)
- Ishkq in Paris (2013)
- Happy Ending (film) (2014)
- Kaadhal Vennila (2016)
- Ivan Oru Thunichalkaran (2017)
- Bhaiaji Superhit (2018)
}}
- As I have been contacted by User:KevinThomas71293 on my talk-page, I find it appropriate to move the request here. I have no knowledge of the subject. Lectonar (talk) 07:34, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
References
- "Will soon return to films, says Preity". The Hindu. Press Trust of India. 12 March 2011. Retrieved 10 August 2011.
- Subhash K Jha (26 November 2018). "Bhaiaji Superhit Movie Review". Times of India. Retrieved 1 December 2018.
- "Preity Zinta starts shooting for 'Bhaiyyaji Superhitt'". The Times of India. Indo-Asian News Service. 28 January 2017. Archived from the original on 3 August 2016. Retrieved 28 May 2017.
- Subhash K Jha (26 November 2018). "Bhaiaji Superhit Movie Review". Times of India. Retrieved 1 December 2018.
Change Infobox Image And Caption
The Infobox has an outdated image of Priety Zinta.
As per her request she wants the following change:
Old Image | image = Preity Zinta by Ash Gupta.jpg
To
| image = Priety_Zinta_2019.jpg
Old Caption | caption = Zinta in 2018
To
| caption = Preity Zinta in 2019
Main image
Apologies, I thought Shahid had been reverted. I do think the older image is more suitable though.† Encyclopædius 14:21, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
Goodenough
User:Shshshsh Yesterday I removed information about Goodenough's profession because this page is not about him. It was restored by someone else and the info about his earlier connection with Zinta was added by someone else. But you deleted the information about how he connected with Zinta. If you are dedicated to removing 'irrelevant' info, then this blatant distraction about his profession needs to be removed first. 122.170.61.84 (talk) 12:12, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
- It is not blatant distraction - his occupation is very much relevant - we're presenting her husband and his basic background. Him having an opinion about Zinta's earlier controversy is not. Shahid • 12:30, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
- It is distraction because he is not notable thus any details about him unrelated to the main subject violate WP:DUE. Your reasoning about calling the coverage he got by reliable sources for being a witness in a report filed by Zinta sounds nothing more than WP:JDL. 122.170.61.84 (talk) 12:39, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
- First, consensus must be reached before information that has been here for years is removed and similarly, when contentious information is added, so I thank you for reverting yourself and for starting this discussion. No, it's not a case of JDL at all, but a matter of WP:DUE. It is relevant who her husband is and what his occupation is, that's very basic. By constrast, it is not relevant where they met and that he was a witness somewhere as it adds no value (the first reaction it evokes is "so?") - their history together is more suitable for magazines. Although maybe it's a matter of wording and we could incorporate it somehow without making it sound out of place. Shahid • 13:17, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
- And what do you suggest? The IP is certainly correct that the person in the question has been significantly covered "by reliable sources for being a witness in a report" and this is precisely why I included the info. While your reaction would be "so?", my reaction would be "oh he was already well known to Preity Zinta before the marriage". In shorter words, I say this information is more important than his profession. AnM2002 (talk) 05:56, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
- Do you have any doubt she knew him before the marriage? I can give you many other things he was significantly covered for which do not merit a mention here. I see someone's removed the fact he was her "longtime boyfriend" and that could first settle your question. As for him being a witness, well, if they were together at the time then it's merely obvious, unless it was where and how they first met, which would be meaningful and I believe it's not the case. Shahid • 15:58, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
- And what do you suggest? The IP is certainly correct that the person in the question has been significantly covered "by reliable sources for being a witness in a report" and this is precisely why I included the info. While your reaction would be "so?", my reaction would be "oh he was already well known to Preity Zinta before the marriage". In shorter words, I say this information is more important than his profession. AnM2002 (talk) 05:56, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
- First, consensus must be reached before information that has been here for years is removed and similarly, when contentious information is added, so I thank you for reverting yourself and for starting this discussion. No, it's not a case of JDL at all, but a matter of WP:DUE. It is relevant who her husband is and what his occupation is, that's very basic. By constrast, it is not relevant where they met and that he was a witness somewhere as it adds no value (the first reaction it evokes is "so?") - their history together is more suitable for magazines. Although maybe it's a matter of wording and we could incorporate it somehow without making it sound out of place. Shahid • 13:17, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
- It is distraction because he is not notable thus any details about him unrelated to the main subject violate WP:DUE. Your reasoning about calling the coverage he got by reliable sources for being a witness in a report filed by Zinta sounds nothing more than WP:JDL. 122.170.61.84 (talk) 12:39, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
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