| Revision as of 17:39, 3 July 2007 editAndrew c (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users31,890 edits →Edit warring: reply← Previous edit |
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{{Contentious topics/talk notice|topic=ipa}}{{afd-merged-from|Hindu Students Council|Hindu Students Council|3 March 2020}} |
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{{WikiProject India|importance=Mid|politics=yes|politics-importance=High}} |
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I seriously question the neutrality of this article. It seems as if a Karsevak has penned the thing. It should be cleaned, to be neutral, or deleted altogether. |
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I think this page belongs here, rather than at 'World Hindu Council'. We wouldn't translate Sinn Fein - everyone calls it Sinn Fein, not "Whatever Sinn Fein means in English". This is how it's referred to in the common press and the English-language press in India... we should call it Vishwa Hindu Parishad. ] |
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: Or just the plain old 'VHP' |
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:: I notice that their website is now using the English spelling "Vish'''v'''a Hindu Parishad". Should we switch over? It would be more consistent – in the original Hindi, the "v" and "w" in this word represent the same ] letter. ] 18:55, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC) |
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The VHP page looks more like a review of the VHP than an informative article. |
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] |
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:: There were never Spanish in India! Did you mean maybe the Portuguese in Goa, Damao, Diu and Silvassa? |
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] |
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Made a change to the comment regarding Muslim mobs setting light to the train. It has been proven wrong so I added allegedly in the sentence. |
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It seems a bit too opionated and not entirely objective |
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== Specific complaints? == |
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This article's neutrality has been disputed since December 19, but what exactly should be changed? How will we know when to remove the POV tag? ] 01:42, 4 January 2006 (UTC) |
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I think the sentence: |
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"While appropriate and justified to represent and defend over 1 billion Hindus in Bharat and throughout the world from extremism of other communities" is a specific example of POV. what makes the writer think that the VHP defends and represents all hindus? |
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although I did not add the NPOV tag..I think the person who did was probably refering to the the last paragraph - Place in History and the Future, which is blatantly POV. (] 16:58, 14 January 2006 (UTC)) |
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I have removed " They are basically against the exisitence of other religions in India" as it is patently untrue. I have modified the words are " credited with " to they are "accused of" in another sentence.] 10:02, 16 May 2006 (UTC) |
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I have removed the word "illegtimate" . See Art.48 of Indian Constitution |
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----------------------------------------- |
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I think the POV issues could be helped somewhat by changing the following fragment: |
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"For over 20 years, the VHP conducted peaceful demonstrations, petitions and tried by litigation to liberate the Ram Janmabhoomi. The Babri Mosque was in a dilapidated condition and not used for worship or any religious activity by the city's Muslims. For years the VHP amassed public support and a broader membership in its organisation." It goes on to blame the Ayodhya incident on the Bajrang Dal, effectively removing culpability from the VHP. To say that they were trying to "liberate" the Ram Janmabhoomi, with no background is completely biased. Furthermore, the effort to make it seem like the Babri Masjid was not a functional mosque, which somehow ameliorated its demolition, is also unacceptable. Some attention should be paid to the continuing religious and symbolic importance of the Masjid. |
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] 05:46, 8 May 2007 (UTC)Ananya |
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== RSS VHP BJP were created by BRAHMIN MAFIA to see that only brahmins rule india and only upper castes become wealthy, educated & progressive == |
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--] 07:14, 13 June 2006 (UTC) |
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Ur not provinganything Mr.Anirudh, u have to provide source for ur accusations, by posting bold letter it does not become truth.I challenge post ur sources?ur reading too much history written by commies,missionaries???stop posting same message on every topic] 00:00, 14 June 2006 (UTC) |
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I find this comment extremely distasteful and racist in ways. Please refrain from talking about subjects you have no knowledge on. |
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==Praise ?== |
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There is no support to the claims made in the praise section ( ie social activisim- some press release of VHP supporting this POV ?)"VHP is largely held as an organization that fills the void of the much needed activist organization to voice the Hindu concerns." -Which does not seem to be factual but seems more like an opinion. |
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"Although, VHP's strength and prominence is very limited, its principled leadership is recognized and vastly appreciated by Hindu Indian nationalists."- Opinion again |
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"VHP has played a critical role in responding to the burning of 56 innocent Hindu pilgrims, majority of them being women and children, in Godhra train massacre."- Do not know if this should be in praise as the response included riots which the VHP was accused of. |
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] 13:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC) |
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== Citations == |
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This articles seems to lack a great amount of citations. ] ] 03:37, 26 November 2006 (UTC) |
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:10 references isn't enough. ] ] 03:54, 26 November 2006 (UTC) |
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::Put up a more appropriate tag. ] ] 03:56, 26 November 2006 (UTC) |
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::Right, I'm putting back your tag.] 04:08, 26 November 2006 (UTC) |
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::: Thank you, more citations have been placed, but it's still not completed. The first two paragraphs of "Ideology" and the last two paragraphs of "Growth in the 1980s" still are unaccounted for. And it seemed that you removed the corrected version of the VHP slogan I put up; I doubt that was intentional, but tell me if something's wrong with it. ] ] 19:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC) |
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::Well I cited the first para of "Growth in the 1980s". The rest of the section isn't my edit. I'll try to look for citations, but it will take time. ] 19:28, 26 November 2006 (UTC) |
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== Andrew_c == |
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Andrew_c: |
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Please explain why you undid the changes I made. I don't quite understand what I did was wrong. |
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Thanks, |
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R_Patel. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 04:19, 28 March 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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:Your edits were not helpful. Inserting a title is not necessary, per the MoS. Saying ] with a wikilink is good enough. Next "ruin" is a more POV phrase than "demolish". Next, you removed the qualification "There is a tradition..." thus turning the sentence into a statement of fact, instead of a statement of belief. Since there is no source for the claim, it is better to leave it as a qualified statement instead of a fact. Finally, you removed a sentence that was only fact tagged a few days ago. I believe we should give editors more time to come up with a source before deleting. I hope you understand why I am reverting these changes again. Please feel free to ask question, or defend your edits here on talk. Thanks for your consideration.-] 20:37, 28 March 2007 (UTC) |
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::The large emphasis on RJ/Babri isnt really providing readers a better view of VHP. Bhagwana Shri Rama is both POV and rather incorrect. ''Maryada Purushottam'' is the more correct honorific, but it doesnt belong either.<b>]]</b> 20:45, 28 March 2007 (UTC) |
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== Hindi serial Ahilya bai. == |
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::Andrew_c, Okay, I will let the editors have more time. Next time I do edits, I will justify them on this discussion board. Please understand that I do bring a different perspective. The editors seem a little anti-VHP and leftists. And, I think that Misplaced Pages community wants no bias (left or right). So I will keep a close watch on the content. As such, I accept some things you have said (such as Rama with a wikilink being good enough). However, for the rest, I will wait and see how the edits go. Thanks, R_Patel. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (] • ]) 12:52, 8 April 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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Tha way this serial is showing Martha's as highly foolish totally unable to identify traitors in home,allowing daily new traitors without any scrutiny,allowing Muslim women like Ramjani and showing Khande Rao in such a poor light looks disgraceful. Why such serial continues to be aired? ] (]) 00:58, 14 October 2022 (UTC) |
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==waqf board== |
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Unless the Waqf board are experts on archaeology and not a bunch of angry fundamentalist imams crying about being proved wrong, they dont belong in the article.<b>]]</b> 15:41, 29 March 2007 (UTC) |
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== Adding Crime & Terrorism Project == |
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== Edit warring == |
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Hi {{ping|Vanamonde93}} I had added crime and terrorism WP projects for ] and ]. But ] reverted my edits twice. I don't want to engage in an edit war. He is unable to give a proper explanation why he has reverted my edit. I said both articles are about a right-wing organisation where they are both involved in some form of crime and terror activities, and the majority of sources do state that. I am keen to add both of these WP projects; would you please comment on this issue? Especially VHP, who are mainly involved in the demolition of a mosque. Thanks ] (]) 17:47, 19 April 2023 (UTC) |
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] and ], could you please stop reverting each other and discuss these differences here on talk. You are both accusing each other of vandalism. However, neither of these versions count as ] under the explicit definition, so please consider discussing matters here.-] </sup>]] 16:20, 3 July 2007 (UTC) |
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::{{ping|Capitals00}} Please explain here why you reverted the edit. I have already pinged an admin on this issue. He's quite experienced regarding this matter.--] (]) 05:42, 20 April 2023 (UTC) |
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:::They are not terrorist organization, neither they are criminals by occupation. That's why you should stop using irrelevant wikiprojects. ] (]) 06:28, 20 April 2023 (UTC) |
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::::But those organisations are clearly involved in criminal and terrorist activities, as the majority of sources state. And who said those were irrelevant projects? Those WP projects should be included in these two articles. {{ping|Doug Weller}} can you please share your view on this matter.--] (]) 06:34, 20 April 2023 (UTC) |
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:::{{ping|Capitals00}} The VHP was clearly involved in the demolition of a mosque, and you're saying they're not criminals. Check the sources first; they clearly indicate that both of these organisations are definitely involved in criminal activities. It is quite clear to me that you won't go by what reliable sources state, but by your biassed opinion. Thanks--] (]) 06:42, 20 April 2023 (UTC) |
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::::No. And stop personal attacks. ] ] 08:07, 20 April 2023 (UTC) |
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:::C'mon {{ping|Doug Weller}} Please share your point of view properly. Should I add those two projects or not? {{ping|Rosguill}} {{ping|Jayron32}} {{ping|Bbb23}} Guys, please share your opinion on this matter. @Doug, I won't make any personal attacks in the future. Thanks--] (]) 08:52, 20 April 2023 (UTC) |
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::::I have no idea why I have been pinged in this discussion. I have zero knowledge in this subject area, have no idea what it's about, and have nothing worthwhile to add beyond what those above have already said. --]] 12:08, 20 April 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::Ditto, although I suppose I can add my common-sense Wikipedian vote that unless/until criminal charges or terrorism are mentioned in the article, it is not appropriate to add these Wikiproject templates. <sub>signed, </sub>] <sup>]</sup> 15:54, 20 April 2023 (UTC) |
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::::I said they {{TQ|are not terrorist organization, neither they are criminals by occupation.}} Our wikipedia page does not say ] was a terrorist act. ] (]) 13:37, 20 April 2023 (UTC) |
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*We have very little formal guidance as to when specific wikiproject banners are to be used. If your intention is to describe the RSS and VHP as criminal or terrorist groups: that characterization isn't supported by sources, and this is the wrong way to go about it in any case. The argument could be made that the pages are of interest to a crime wikiproject, but even that's a bit of a stretch; do you really see people improving this article because of a general interest in crime? I think not. So I don't see the banners serving a purpose, and have no interest in pursuing this conversation further. <span style="font-family:Papyrus">] (])</span> 16:17, 20 April 2023 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 3 June 2024 == |
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:]. has nothing indicating "threats" and other opprobrious incentives anwar purports they did. I am not going to let the VHP get slandered on wiki.<b>]]</b> 16:42, 3 July 2007 (UTC) |
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{{edit semi-protected|Vishva Hindu Parishad|answered=yes}} |
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::I can understand your concern about adding "threatened physical violence", and removing that unsourced comment seems appropriate. However, more than that phrase was reverted. All I'm saying is that repeated reverts without discussion are not productive. Talk it out. Explain to each other why you feel the changes are necessary. I'll ask Anwar saadat to join us.-] </sup>]] 17:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC) |
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I would like to add Biruduraju Ramaraju to the list of members of organization as he was the Andhra Pradesh's president of Vishwa Hindu Parishad in 1980's and actively headed the Rama Janmabhoomi movement of 1984. ] (]) 18:42, 3 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{notdone}} Please provide ] and get ] for adding the person's name. ] <small>(])</small> 19:14, 3 June 2024 (UTC) |
Tha way this serial is showing Martha's as highly foolish totally unable to identify traitors in home,allowing daily new traitors without any scrutiny,allowing Muslim women like Ramjani and showing Khande Rao in such a poor light looks disgraceful. Why such serial continues to be aired? 120.21.169.139 (talk) 00:58, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
I would like to add Biruduraju Ramaraju to the list of members of organization as he was the Andhra Pradesh's president of Vishwa Hindu Parishad in 1980's and actively headed the Rama Janmabhoomi movement of 1984. Sahiti Priya (talk) 18:42, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Not done Please provide reliable sources and get consensus for adding the person's name. RegentsPark (comment) 19:14, 3 June 2024 (UTC)