Revision as of 02:01, 12 July 2007 edit75.4.217.1 (talk)No edit summary← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 21:48, 25 October 2024 edit undoTom.Reding (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Template editors3,882,812 editsm -{{BLP}}; +blp=yes (request); cleanupTag: AWB |
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{{Contentious topics/talk notice|ap|style=long}} |
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* '''Speedy Keep''', ]. |
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{{Calm|#FFCCCC}} |
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{{Round in circles|search=no}} |
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{{Australian English}} |
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{{Old XfD multi| date = January 12, 2007 |
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| result = '''Speedy Keep''' |
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| page = Wikileaks |
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{{WikiProject banner shell |blp=yes |vital=yes |class=B |collapsed=yes |1= |
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{{WikiProject Journalism |importance=top}} |
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{{WikiProject Sweden |importance=low}} |
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{{WikiProject Internet |importance=Mid}} |
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{{WikiProject Cryptography |importance=Low}} |
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{{WikiProject Espionage |importance=Low}} |
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{{Split article |
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|from=WikiLeaks |
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|to1=Information leaked by WikiLeaks |
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|diff1=http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=WikiLeaks&action=historysubmit&diff=401469565&oldid=401469379 |
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|date1=9 December 2010 |
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|to2=Reception of WikiLeaks |
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|diff2=http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=WikiLeaks&diff=634202785&oldid=634125708 |
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|date2=17 November 2014 |
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{{User:MiszaBot/config |
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==AfD #1== |
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|archiveheader = {{aan}} |
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I speedily-kept the debate. If you disagree and you're a regular wikipedia editor contact me on my talk page and I'll un-close it. ---] <small>(]/]/])</small> 05:44, 12 January 2007 (UTC) |
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== New article == |
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|algo = old(20d) |
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|archive = Talk:WikiLeaks/Archive %(counter)d |
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*Added a ton of resources/RS sources. Needs cleanup, working on it. Please help! ] 22:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC) |
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}} |
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*Is ''Wikilinks'' a typo for Wikileaks or something different? ] 00:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC) |
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== Daily Dot questionable? == |
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:They're different. Wikilinks are where you type a page name in double square brackets. In the context of Misplaced Pages, they're usually just called links. ] 01:49, 12 January 2007 (UTC) |
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::For the edit I just made it was a typo. Mackenson got most of them before, we both missed that last one... ] 01:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC) |
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And now it's popping up all over ] 05:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC) |
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== Criticism == |
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Is it me, or do the statements in the criticism section not make sense? ] 05:09, 15 January 2007 (UTC) |
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:The guy's own language, and not really, no. I put it just to have *some* balance for now. ] 05:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC) |
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::Each statement makes sense, but the second does not follow from the first. The first refers to the question of to what extent leaking ''of any sort'' is ethical in a democracy, and the second relates to ''misleading'' leaking (presumably including forged documents). I will attempt to fix this! JY, 16 January 2007 |
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:::At some point the bits got put in one paragraph rather than broken up. Read better? ] 07:21, 17 January 2007 (UTC) |
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::::This doesn't solve the problem - the Aftergood quoted refers to all leaking in a democracy, and the Wikileaks FAQ quote refers to misleading leaking (and as far as I can tell was not written in response to the Aftergood quote). I think we another sentance dealing with the possibility of misleading leaks, or no mention of them at all. JY, 17 Jan 2007 (I note that the misunderstaning seems to have begun in Friedman's article rather than here) |
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==Wikileaks should integrate with Misplaced Pages== |
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One of main my Misplaced Pages wishlist : |
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{{cquote|'discussion' page on Misplaced Pages should have a section for debating where a NPOV/neutral admin moderator can summarize all the distinct points (typically there are very few even for hotly debated/controversial topics) and these distinct points should have voting buttons as well.}} |
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That wish list seems to be fulfilled by Wikileaks but I think Misplaced Pages will always have more visibility as compared to Wikileaks and hence Wikileaks should find ways to integrate with it e.g. the main page of a topic should always be the Misplaced Pages page and there should be a link to Wikileaks page (if it exists) having leaked data as well as it should support blogging/debating and should have buttons as well. <br> |
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''Vjdchauhan 07:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC).'' (''Information should be centralized and rest all should be de-centralized'') |
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:Note that unless independently verified or written about, it is very unlikely that any document on Wikileaks would be acceptable in a Misplaced Pages article. ] 22:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC) |
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== it's possible == |
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i wouldn't be surprised if the NSA is behind this <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (]) 14:39, 16 January 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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@] I partial reverted , why are the Daily Dot articles questionable? ] (]) 22:10, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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== Necessity of wikileaks == |
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:Consensus has determined it ] for the reasons given at the time it was raised. It certainly ought not to be relied upon for contentious statements of fact. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 22:59, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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Is it just me, or is the start of the fourth paragraph, stating that "it has been observed that" this sort of site is a necessity, just an opinion without any backing?{{unsigned2|03:14, January 18, 2007|Schnitzi}} |
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::{{tq|Consensus has determined}} The RSP you cite says {{tq|There is no consensus}}. |
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:You're quite right; such statements should have citations, so as to comply with ] policy. Because of this, I've added a {{tl|fact}} tag. You can add these yourself to statements which you feel should cite a source. Be neither excessive nor stingy with regards to the use of the template. ] 03:28, 18 January 2007 (UTC) |
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::It does not say {{tq|It certainly ought not to be relied upon for contentious statements of fact.}} It says {{tq|there is community consensus that attribution should be used in topics where the source is known to be biased or when the source is used to support contentious claims of fact.}} Why do you think the statements are contentious? If it is we can attribute it like the RSP you cite says ] (]) 23:19, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::I'm going to take down that one fact tag; it's supported by current source , in the third paragraph. ] 03:45, 18 January 2007 (UTC) |
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:::We could, but given that this appears to be the only source which makes certain claims, it's more appropriate not to give this slightly dubious source excessive weight in the article. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 23:23, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::I ask again. Why do you think the statements are contentious? |
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::::Why is it ]? it is not unlikely, particularly difficult to verify, ambiguous and open to interpretation, and no RS makes different claims |
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::::Why is it ] It is not widely acknowledged as extremist, promotional in nature, or rely heavily on rumors and personal opinions ] (]) 23:31, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::Similarly, the Daily Beast is not regarded as a high-quality and reliable source, particularly for statements of fact about living people. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 23:38, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::You did not answer. Please stop ignoring questions. |
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:::::About Daily Beast, you were ] with no consensus and nothing has changed |
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:::::And WikiLeaks is not a living person, BLP does not apply to the organisations Twitter account does it? ] (]) 23:44, 21 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::Some instances have other sources, so the use of low-quality sources is redundant. Others make claims not reported on by any other sources, not even by better sources (such as Wired) that focus on tech/cyber reporting and that closely reported on WikiLeaks. We ought not to give undue weight to 1 source lacking a strong rep for reliability. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 02:00, 22 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::::Please stop ]. You have cited things and said they had consensus for things they did not. You mention other policies that do not seem supported and are not answering about it ] (]) 10:49, 22 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::::It’s time to stop making false claims that I’m ignoring questions. What you mean is that I’m not answering them the way you want. That's not on me. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 13:16, 22 March 2024 (UTC) |
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We should be using mainstream ] with strong reputations, not shoestring sites with little or no evidence of editorial oversight and disagreement on reliability. Hence I replaced e.g. the DailyDot website with '']''. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 05:03, 22 March 2024 (UTC) |
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OK, I got it. Is there a way to use the same source twice there without having to redo the entire attribution on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. usage? Some right way to just put down the named <nowiki><ref name=xyz>?</nowiki> ] 03:49, 18 January 2007 (UTC) |
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:{{tq|with little or no evidence of editorial oversight and disagreement on reliability.}} You described WikiLeaks |
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==New developments?== |
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:{{tq|Hence I replaced e.g. the DailyDot website with The Atlantic}} You replaced one source with The Atlantic and removed the others without replacing them, or even adding a {{citation needed}} first like I did |
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I found like link on Michaelmoore.com It basicly says " '...an uncensorable Misplaced Pages for untraceable mass document leaking and analysis...' | Or Is It | " The || is a link to this site http://cryptome.org/wikileaks/wikileaks-leak.htm. |
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:And you still havent explained why it is dubious or contentious ] (]) 10:51, 22 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::Read the first and last sentences of your own comment. Your posts are becoming absurd. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 14:05, 22 March 2024 (UTC) |
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:::My input is probably not warranted here, but I would like to point out that you are not answering. You call the source "dubious" despite the fact that there is no concensus behind it. Leaving unanswered the question of why you think the statements from the source are questionable. ] (]) 18:51, 15 April 2024 (UTC) |
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::::You may wish to {{tq|point out}} what you claim, but given it's not true, it's not "pointing out" something but merely making a false claim about the above comments. I agree that such input is not warranted, nor is it productive. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#4682B4 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#4682B4 -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;color:#000000">]— ]</span> 20:38, 15 April 2024 (UTC) |
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== Donations via cryptocurrency: oddly missing from the article == |
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I don't have the time to sift through all this data, but I would asume that its stating that wikilinks not what it seems... would it be original research to post it on here?] 18:54, 19 January 2007 (UTC) |
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: It would be OR, I believe, yeah, as described by you. A valid RS needs to state, for it to be verifiable. We can't produce original thought, just condense, summarize and remix under NPOV. ] 19:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC) |
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The article prose mentions "donation" or "donations" 30 times, and extensively covers bank and credit card donations, and the ectensive efforts of various state and financial entities to stop or halt such payment channels to WikiLeaks. Yet it makes no mention at all of WikiLeaks accepting donations in ]. |
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==Heinlein== |
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In ''Revolt in 2100'' ] wrote:<blockquote> |
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Secrecy is the keystone of all tyranny. Not force, but secrecy... censorship. When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, 'This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him. |
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</blockquote> |
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This simply didn't belong in the article. I've moved it here. ] 10:58, 28 January 2007 |
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Odd that. The official website of WikiLeaks, linked as the first item in the "External links" section of the article, clearly indicates that WikiLeaks is set up to receive donations in at least a half dozen digital assets, that do not pass through banks or credit card processing centers. ] (]) 16:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== More news coverage == |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2024 == |
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See (]). '']]'' 04:16, 7 February 2007 (UTC) |
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{{edit semi-protected|WikiLeaks|answered=yes}} |
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== When Online? == |
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'''MINOR GRAMMAR EDIT:''' |
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Line says "times '''were'''" - source article uses grammar that I think is correct "instances '''where'''" - if not protected I'd have changed it to "times where". |
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] 19:59, 23 March 2007 (UTC) |
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Line in question: |
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<blockquote> |
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When will Wikileaks go live? |
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''In response to a question in 2010 about whether WikiLeaks would release information that he knew might get someone killed, Assange said that he had instituted a "harm-minimization policy." This meant that people named in some documents might be contacted before publication, '''but that there were also times were members''' of WikiLeaks might have "blood on our hands." One member of WikiLeaks told The New Yorker they were initially uncomfortable with Assange's editorial policy but changed her mind because she thought no one had been unjustly harmed.'' ] (]) 15:24, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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We cannot yet give an exact date. We estimate February or March 2007. |
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:{{done}}. '''〜''' <span style="font-family:Big Caslon;border-radius:9em;padding:0 7px;background:#437a4b">]</span> ] 15:53, 26 June 2024 (UTC) |
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</blockquote> |
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== About the ] announcement on the top == |
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I think there was an earlier date online, it does seem to take forever, anyone knows more about this? |
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I think it's very necessary to add the announcement about "WikiLeaks is not part of, also have no relations with us Misplaced Pages" at the top of the page. But I can't find a proper way to add it. So I want to ask others' opinions about this suggestion. ] (]) 14:41, 4 July 2024 (UTC) |
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== Who needs to criticize...? == |
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:Is there any evidence anyone is confused?--] (]) 01:36, 6 July 2024 (UTC) |
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::There was a problem many years back with people who clearly ''were'' confused posting hostile comments on this talk page: see e.g. this discussion. I'd be surprised if it is still happening now with enough regularity to be an issue though. ] (]) 01:50, 6 July 2024 (UTC) |
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== Typo == |
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When you proclaim how great your site is...then have only one document...and an analysis that |
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consists of: |
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either the "document is genuine, slightly modified or is an earlier forgery recycled for the Chinese" |
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The word "raided" is mistakenly repeated in the sentence "In March 2009, German police raided raided the offices of Wikileaks Germany and the homes of Theodor Reppe, who owned the registration for WikiLeaks' German domain while searching for evidence of 'distribution of pornographic material'." ] (]) 05:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC) |
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Brilliant analysis...just brilliant...I am overwhelmed by the amount of work that was put into |
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:Fixed. ]] 15:23, 20 July 2024 (UTC) |
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that conclusion. <small>—The preceding ] comment was added by ] (]) 06:40, 2 May 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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== Trump–Russia relations == |
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Is this really relevant ? ] (]) 09:24, 31 July 2024 (UTC) |
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==Fake Leaks?== |
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:thats how templates work ] (]) 04:42, 2 August 2024 (UTC) |
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Doesn't anybody think WikiLeaks could be used for fake leaks? --] |
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The article prose mentions "donation" or "donations" 30 times, and extensively covers bank and credit card donations, and the ectensive efforts of various state and financial entities to stop or halt such payment channels to WikiLeaks. Yet it makes no mention at all of WikiLeaks accepting donations in cryptocurrency.
Odd that. The official website of WikiLeaks, linked as the first item in the "External links" section of the article, clearly indicates that WikiLeaks is set up to receive donations in at least a half dozen digital assets, that do not pass through banks or credit card processing centers. N2e (talk) 16:40, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
I think it's very necessary to add the announcement about "WikiLeaks is not part of, also have no relations with us Misplaced Pages" at the top of the page. But I can't find a proper way to add it. So I want to ask others' opinions about this suggestion. Awdqmb (talk) 14:41, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
The word "raided" is mistakenly repeated in the sentence "In March 2009, German police raided raided the offices of Wikileaks Germany and the homes of Theodor Reppe, who owned the registration for WikiLeaks' German domain while searching for evidence of 'distribution of pornographic material'." 2001:16B8:DEF:E100:507E:A9D5:6C00:932C (talk) 05:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC)