Talk:Nantes: Difference between revisions

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			{{Talk header}}
	{{WikiProject France\|importance=Mid\|class=start}}
			{{Article history
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			\|action1date=2017-01-28
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			\|action4=WPR
	I removed the pronunciation of the Brazilian Nantes, because there is no standard pronunciation for Brazilian Portuguese. I can count six similar, but different ways in which Nantes can be pronounced by a Brazilian. ] 03:59, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
			\|action4date=2017-06-20
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			{{WikiProject banner shell\|class=B\|vital=yes\|1=
			{{WikiProject France\|importance=high\|commune=yes}}
			{{WikiProject Cities}}
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			}}
			{{Archives}}

			==Section title==
	Created a new subject heading "Famous people born in Nantes" ] 14:11, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
			There are two real options for the name of this section:
			#Rail / Trains
			#Intercity rail / Regional rail
			I've taken the liberty of going through the other 20 préfectures in continental France to see what their sections are called:
			*] - no sub-sections.
			*] - split into 'Road', 'Rail', 'Air', 'Trams, buses and boats'.
			*] - no section.
			*] - no section.
			*] - no sub-sections.
			*] - no section.
			*] - no section.
			*] - no sub-sections.
			*] - no sub-sections.
			*] - split into 'Streets and thoroughfares', 'Public transportation', 'National and international rail connections', 'National and international air connections'.
			*] - no sub-sections.
			*] - no section.
			*] - split into 'Motorway', 'High speed train (TGV)', 'Regional trains', 'Local transportation'.
			*] - no sub-sections.
			*] - split into 'Highways', 'Air traffic', 'Waterways', 'Shipping statistics'.
			*] - no sub-sections.
			*] - no sub-sections.
			*] - no section.
			*] - no sub-sections.
			*] - no sub-sections.
			*] - split into 'Air', 'Rail', 'Road', 'Intercity coach', 'Public transport'.
			As you can see, there is no precedent or pattern here. There are two which conform to the way I would wish to leave the section (Paris and Metz), and there are two which conform to the way in which you wish to leave it (Bordeaux and Lyon). I've explained why I think my way is best (i.e. because this section deals specifically with trains going between Nantes and other regions/cities, while the 'Public transport' section deals with commuter/suburban rail), but anyway I'll leave you reply before changing it again. ] 17:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
			:I'll add my 2 cents : "Intercity Rail" seems widely used in articles about cities (except french ones) London, Boston, Los Angeles, so I favor this title. Train is a bad title as it applies to coach, TGV, trams... ] 01:12, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
			::I realised that "Intercity rail" works better and is more appropriate with the context. I took "Train" from the French article, and it doesn't mean the same thing in English at all, my mistake. Train is simply not precise enough, and today there are numerous kind of trains (subway, tramway, suburban trains...). I'll revert the title and do agree with you on that point. ] <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 16:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			==History==
	==Brittany vs Pays de la Loire==
			{{Translated page\|fr\|Nantes}}

			== Article Lead ==
	I removed the, "It is also the most important city of Brittany" for "It is also the most important city of historic Brittany, but it is in the Pays de la Loire region." It is actually the capital of that region. ] 21:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

			Is there really a need to know, right in the introduction, that Nantes has a school of management? No? Good, I thought so, which is why I've zapped that bit. I'm also of a mind to get rid of the Times citation (so what if seven years ago some magazine published another one of their unscientific "rankings"), and the bit about some "innovation agency" (what is that anyway) referring to Nantes in some way or another. I just don't want to overdo the trimming, but I find the lead should rely more on "hard" facts, so to speak. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 13:20, 18 May 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			== motto ==
	In the "20th century" Nantes was a centre of the slave trade?

			''Favet Neptunus eunti.'' means "Neptune favors the traveler." I realizes it's a find point that few people would care about, but "May Neptune favor the travelers." would be ''Faveat Neptunus euntibus.'' --] <sup>''']'''</sup> 09:58, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
	Clearly false.
			:After a quick root around, the poster is correct so I will change the caption accordingly. <b>] <sup>]</sup></b> 18:59, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

			==File:Nantes - Erdre.jpg Nominated for Deletion==
	Paul Marks.
			{\|
			\|-
			\| ]
			\| An image used in this article, ], has been nominated for deletion at ] in the following category: ''Deletion requests December 2011''
			;What should I do?
			''Don't panic''; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
			* If the image is ] then you may need to upload it to Misplaced Pages (Commons does not allow fair use)
			* If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no ] then it cannot be uploaded or used.

			''This notification is provided by a Bot'' --] (]) 17:32, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
	==Nantes infobox==
			\|}
	== TfD nomination of Template:Nantes infobox ==

			== "Republican Marriage" ==
	] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at ]. Thank you.<!-- Tfdnotice --> This template is only used in the ] article (and only likely to be). Template should be subst'd here and deleted. <sub>└</sub><sup>''']'''</sup>/<sub>'']''</sub><sup>┐</sup> 19:53, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

			I'm removed the reference to the ] which is very probably an historical myth created after the fact. This had been introduced by an anonymous edit on http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Nantes&diff=prev&oldid=209806479 . The French page about the drownings: ] has no mentions of "republican marriage", not without reasons, they probably never existed... (the massacres were real, however - I'm keeping the reference to them)
	== New Infobox Template proposition ==
			--] (]) 21:42, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

			== Machines of the Isle of Nantes ==
	I'd like to bring your attention to a new - or other - version of the "Large French Cities" infobox presently at use in a few French cities pages. The present version is much too large, partly because it consecrates too much space to information having little importance to French demography and an only distant and indirect relevence to the city itself. Instead I propose to follow a less cumbersome model closer to that used by the ] article - you can view the ] in the Paris talk page ]. Please view and comment. ] 22:22, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
	: As a result of some discussion over the past weeks, there is an updated template available for perusal in its 'published ' form (filled with data) ] - all comments welcome. -- ] 07:25, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

			Since the Isle of Nantes is in Nantes, the following should be included somewhere in this article. However, I was unable to determine which category would be appropriate, and didn't want to create a 'See also' section with only one item.
	==Inaccurate image==
			* ] (''Les Machines de l'île''), artistic, touristic and cultural project, featuring .
			Perhaps it could be included as part of the narrative in the 'History' section, where the Isle of Nantes is mentioned (?).
			A related item could (should?) be mentioned someplace in the article - or at least a 'See also' item. See: '']'' -and- <br />
			''~Thanks, ~E'' <small>Modified:</small>] (]) 17:37, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

			== Largest Cities in France (Introduction) ==
	Does anyone else think that the map of France on this page shows Nantes to be to close to the coast? ] 02:03, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
	: Nevermind, someone's fixed it now ] 02:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

			Marseilles is the second-largest city in France but is omitted from your list. ] (]) 16:10, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
	== Public transport ==

			== Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page ==
	"The system works efficiently with moderate ticket rates, rare delays, constant informations about the network and clean transports". This statement is POV and needs to be backed up with sources or removed --] 02:32, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

			Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted.
	:I don't think it should be removed, i experienced the system in Nantes once and it has been on of the best transportation system i ever saw. {{unsignedIP\|67.68.22.194\|03:14, 30 July, 2007 (UTC)}}
			Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Misplaced Pages.
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			'''Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:'''
	==] and his revisions==

			*<nowiki>http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/newnantes/</nowiki>
	While his efforts are appreciated, I am completely fed up with his vandalism due to lack of knowledge and sense.
			*:''Triggered by <code>\bairport-technology\.com\b</code> on the local blacklist''

			If you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact ] and ask him to program me with more info.
	Firstly, there is a 'citation needed' stamp on the lead paragraph because when claims like the one there are made, we need to find a valid citation from a reliable external website to back such up with. Second of all, there is no need to create a separate paragraph entitled 'Nantes and Brittany'; the topic is dealt with in detail at the page ] and the relationship between the two is no different or no more special than that between Brittany and anywhere else in the Pays de la Loire that was formerly a part of the province. Thirdly, accents (i.e. á è) are to be left on words, they are their proper titles and you are breaking hyperlinks by changing them. Fourthly, 'Brittany' is not spelt 'Britanny'. Fifthly, titles are not to be fully capitalized, i.e. the correct version of 'Parks And Gardens' is 'Parks and gardens'.

			From your friendly hard working bot.—] ]<sub style="margin-left:-6.1ex;color:green;font-family:arnprior">Online</sub> 11:29, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
	These are all quite simple guidelines, and while once again your efforts are appreciated, it is your responsibility to know these guidelines before you make wholesale changes to an article, on the basis of 'cleaning it'. Finally, please create a user account, it would make this a lot easier. Thank you. ] 10:26, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

	==] and his vandalism.

			{{done\|Resolved}} This issue has been resolved, and I have therefore removed the tag, if not already done. No further action is necessary.—] ]<sub style="margin-left:-5.8ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">Online</sub> 19:14, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
	It appears that the wikipedia user ] gets really mad when one article is switched back to its original context due to his lack of knowledge about the city of Nantes and his incorrect English. First of all, Nantes And Brittany is a needed article as it is one of the most important part of the history of the city, and this section has been taken from the french article, if you only took a look on the french one! Second of all, fully capitalized titles are the correct way to do so, like Park And Gardens for instance, this is a TITLE, and all the words have to be fully capitalized on a web page. And finally, there is absolutely NO NEED to create an account on Misplaced Pages, that's why no username is required to edit articles.

			== External links modified ==
	Thanks ]

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,

			I have just added archive links to {{plural:1\|one external link\|1 external links}} on ]. Please take a moment to review . If necessary, add {{tlx\|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx\|nobots\|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070710015037/http://www.revit-nweurope.org/ventura/engine.php?Cmd=see&P_site=621&P_self=74&PMax=0&PSkip=0&PHPSESSID=b46849d19981e3e86545a7fc7d2f34a8 to http://www.revit-nweurope.org/ventura/engine.php?Cmd=see&P_site=621&P_self=74&PMax=0&PSkip=0&PHPSESSID=f688e4be6c8382e1bc57f2dc285e26bf

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			Cheers. —]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">]:Online</sub></small> 20:57, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

			== Proposed complete change to citation/reference format ==

			* As per the ], I am completely revising the citation/reference format in a personal sandbox. I'm making good progress, but won't be able to finish today. Please do comment here if you object to a complete change. If anyone objects, I will stop (or if I have already done it here in mainspace, I will be willing to revert my changes then). I can '''probably''' change it tomorrow if that's OK.
			* By the way, if anyone is certain that the page numbers of '''Pétré-Grenouilleau, Olivier (2008)''' match those of '''Pétré-Grenouilleau, Olivier (2002)''', we could fix one error that's repeated several times.  ] &diams; ] 16:11, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
			:Thank you for your attention and your help, it is really appreciated. For Pétré-Grenouilleau, I think that all references should be 2008 actually. I don't know why I put 2002, must have been confused with another book. ] (]) 16:14, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

			== External links modified ==

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			I have just modified 6 external links on ]. Please take a moment to review . If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160510032546/http://www.museum.nantes.fr/pages/03-apercu/introapercu.htm to http://www.museum.nantes.fr/pages/03-apercu/introapercu.htm
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130526225444/http://www.energy-cities.eu/Nantes-European-Green-Capital-in to http://www.energy-cities.eu/Nantes-European-Green-Capital-in
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20161227195512/http://www.archives.nantes.fr/PAGES/HISTOIRE_QUARTIERS/fichiers_pdf/Nantes_au_quotidien/NQ134ebook.pdf to http://www.archives.nantes.fr/PAGES/HISTOIRE_QUARTIERS/fichiers_pdf/Nantes_au_quotidien/NQ134ebook.pdf
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160325223021/http://www.archives.nantes.fr/pages/dossiers_docs/hoteldeville/hotel1.htm to http://www.archives.nantes.fr/PAGES/DOSSIERS_DOCS/hoteldeville/hotel1.htm
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160305031730/http://www.archives.nantes.fr/pages/dossiers_docs/pouvoir_municipal/page1.htm to http://www.archives.nantes.fr/PAGES/DOSSIERS_DOCS/pouvoir_municipal/page1.htm
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160504012933/http://www.nantes.fr/home/actualites/a-nantes-et-pas-ailleurs/2015/navibus-anniversaire.html to http://www.nantes.fr/home/actualites/a-nantes-et-pas-ailleurs/2015/navibus-anniversaire.html

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			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 09:26, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

			==Chronology==
			Quick question: In the section on the Middle Ages, it included this statement:

			:After the death of Charlemagne, the Breton armies invaded the March. Nominoe, first Duke of Brittany, seized Nantes in 850. The first decades of Breton rule in Nantes were difficult as Breton lords kept fighting between each other, preventing them to be able to stop Viking incursions. The most spectacular in Nantes occurred in 843, when the Viking warriors killed the bishop. Nantes was finally integrated to the Viking realm in 919, but the Norse were expelled from the town in 937 by Alan II, Duke of Brittany.

			Can someone help me figure out where Nominoe should fit into the narrative? It seems like it naturally goes like this:

			# Charlemagne dies in 817
			# Britons invade shortly thereafter but fight amongst themselves
			# Vikings attack in 843
			# Vikings take over in 919
			# Vikings expelled in 937

			Does Nominoe fight off the Vikings in 850? Or were the Britons and Vikings both fighting over the territory in the years preceding 850? – ] (]) 23:24, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

			:I've left a message on {{ping\|Oie blanche}}'s French talk page, asking them to come here, as they've done the sourcework for this article. My impression, gleaned from ], is that Charlemagne died, Louis II came to the throne. Then there was an attempted coup by Lambert II, heir of a dispossessed Frankish family, of the then-] lands of Brittany (including Nantes), by killing ]. ] (Charlemagne's grandson, who succeeded Louis II) awarded the land to the wrong person, a Frank. Hell broke loose, and Nominoe, a Breton who was Lambert's ally, united the Bretons against the Franks. There was later a treaty, La paix d'Angers, which created an independent Brittany, which Nominoe's son ruled over as the Duke of Brittany. Vikings attacked in 919, and expelled in 937. The independence of Brittany lasted until a royal marriage was made. --] (]) 03:26, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
			::The first Viking raid happened in 843, while the town was still under Frankish control, and the Vikings did not settle. Thus Nominoe fought Franks in 850. Other raids occurred in the period and the Vikings integrated Nantes in their realm in 919. Regards, ] (]) 08:40, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
			:::Thank you for clearing that up for us, Oie blanche. Is that information (that the Vikings did not conquer the Franks, and Nominoe later fought the Franks, and under Breton rule the Vikings integrated Nantes in 919) covered in Pétré-Grenouilleau 2008, p. 26? --] (]) 09:09, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
			::::Yes it is. By the way, I noticed that you made a remark about the sentence on Corbilo. The thing is that this city is mentioned in ancient texts, but these texts are too vague to precisely locate the city. Archeologists have never found its remains. It could have been Nantes, but also ], ] or even ]. ] (]) 16:23, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
			:::::Thank you again - that will make it easier to copyedit. I have tried to include the information you have given us on the page so that it is easy for everyone to understand the timeline. What do you think, {{ping\|Todorojo}}? Oie blanche, so Nantes is one of many candidates that could have been the ancient city of Corbilo? Are the other candidates mentioned in Decours 2006, p. 10.? --] (]) 02:48, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
			::::::Yes, that's it, Nantes is one of the candidates that could have been Corbilo. I don't have Decours, 2006 with me anymore so I cannot double check the locations, but Pétré-Grenouilleau, 2008, 18, mentions Nantes, Saint-Nazaire and the Grande Brière as possible locations. ] (]) 09:35, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
			Thank you again! I have reworded this point to say that Nantes was possibly Corbilo. --] (]) 21:35, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

			== External links modified ==

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			*Added {{tlx\|dead link}} tag to http://www.archives.nantes.fr/PAGES/EXPO/EXPO/70e_anniv_liberation_nantes/Expo_70eme_anniversaire_liberation_nantes.pdf
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111016211002/http://www.nantes-developpement.com/economie/filieres/articles/activites-financieres to http://www.nantes-developpement.com/economie/filieres/articles/activites-financieres
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100729202956/http://www.nantes-developpement.com/economie/filieres/filieres-accueil to http://www.nantes-developpement.com/economie/filieres/filieres-accueil

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			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 04:32, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

			== External links modified (February 2018) ==

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			I have just modified 3 external links on ]. Please take a moment to review ]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20161228124647/http://cdn.ter.sncf.com/medias/PDF/pays_de_la_loire/Carte%20TER%20PDL%20au%2024-09-15%20L_tcm67-19904_tcm67-19903.pdf to http://cdn.ter.sncf.com/medias/PDF/pays_de_la_loire/Carte%20TER%20PDL%20au%2024-09-15%20L_tcm67-19904_tcm67-19903.pdf
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20170104091759/http://laventreche.free.fr/Drapeaux%20Naoned%20%28FR%20%26%20BZH%29.pdf to http://laventreche.free.fr/Drapeaux%20Naoned%20%28FR%20%26%20BZH%29.pdf
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140204022856/http://www.nantes-amenagement.fr/le-zenith-nantes-metropole-premiere-salle-de-spectacles-en-province-28183.kjsp to http://www.nantes-amenagement.fr/le-zenith-nantes-metropole-premiere-salle-de-spectacles-en-province-28183.kjsp

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			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 08:32, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

			== Slavery Memorial ==

			I just added a new section on the Nantes Slavery Memorial but am new to Misplaced Pages and am not sure I did everything right. Please feel free to go through and edit/fix any issues, thanks! :) ] (]) 21:30, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 20:01, 25 November 2024

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Archives

Archive 1

Section title

There are two real options for the name of this section:

Rail / Trains
Intercity rail / Regional rail

I've taken the liberty of going through the other 20 préfectures in continental France to see what their sections are called:

Strasbourg - no sub-sections.
Bordeaux - split into 'Road', 'Rail', 'Air', 'Trams, buses and boats'.
Clermont-Ferrand - no section.
Dijon - no section.
Rennes - no sub-sections.
Orléans - no section.
Châlons-en-Champagne - no section.
Ajaccio - no sub-sections.
Besançon - no sub-sections.
Paris - split into 'Streets and thoroughfares', 'Public transportation', 'National and international rail connections', 'National and international air connections'.
Montpellier - no sub-sections.
Limoges - no section.
Metz - split into 'Motorway', 'High speed train (TGV)', 'Regional trains', 'Local transportation'.
Toulouse - no sub-sections.
Lille - split into 'Highways', 'Air traffic', 'Waterways', 'Shipping statistics'.
Caen - no sub-sections.
Rouen - no sub-sections.
Amiens - no section.
Poitiers - no sub-sections.
Transport - no sub-sections.
Lyon - split into 'Air', 'Rail', 'Road', 'Intercity coach', 'Public transport'.

As you can see, there is no precedent or pattern here. There are two which conform to the way I would wish to leave the section (Paris and Metz), and there are two which conform to the way in which you wish to leave it (Bordeaux and Lyon). I've explained why I think my way is best (i.e. because this section deals specifically with trains going between Nantes and other regions/cities, while the 'Public transport' section deals with commuter/suburban rail), but anyway I'll leave you reply before changing it again. Schcambo 17:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll add my 2 cents : "Intercity Rail" seems widely used in articles about cities (except french ones) London, Boston, Los Angeles, so I favor this title. Train is a bad title as it applies to coach, TGV, trams... Mthibault 01:12, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I realised that "Intercity rail" works better and is more appropriate with the context. I took "Train" from the French article, and it doesn't mean the same thing in English at all, my mistake. Train is simply not precise enough, and today there are numerous kind of trains (subway, tramway, suburban trains...). I'll revert the title and do agree with you on that point. Firstwind —Preceding unsigned comment added by Firstwind (talk • contribs) 16:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

History

This article contains a translation of Nantes from fr.wikipedia.

Article Lead

Is there really a need to know, right in the introduction, that Nantes has a school of management? No? Good, I thought so, which is why I've zapped that bit. I'm also of a mind to get rid of the Times citation (so what if seven years ago some magazine published another one of their unscientific "rankings"), and the bit about some "innovation agency" (what is that anyway) referring to Nantes in some way or another. I just don't want to overdo the trimming, but I find the lead should rely more on "hard" facts, so to speak. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.153.248.80 (talk) 13:20, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

motto

Favet Neptunus eunti. means "Neptune favors the traveler." I realizes it's a find point that few people would care about, but "May Neptune favor the travelers." would be Faveat Neptunus euntibus. --Ioscius 09:58, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

After a quick root around, the poster is correct so I will change the caption accordingly. CaptainScreebo 18:59, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

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"Republican Marriage"

I'm removed the reference to the Republican Marriage which is very probably an historical myth created after the fact. This had been introduced by an anonymous edit on http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Nantes&diff=prev&oldid=209806479 . The French page about the drownings: fr:Noyades de Nantes has no mentions of "republican marriage", not without reasons, they probably never existed... (the massacres were real, however - I'm keeping the reference to them) --Farialima (talk) 21:42, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Machines of the Isle of Nantes

Since the Isle of Nantes is in Nantes, the following should be included somewhere in this article. However, I was unable to determine which category would be appropriate, and didn't want to create a 'See also' section with only one item.

Machines of the Isle of Nantes (Les Machines de l'île), artistic, touristic and cultural project, featuring .

Perhaps it could be included as part of the narrative in the 'History' section, where the Isle of Nantes is mentioned (?). A related item could (should?) be mentioned someplace in the article - or at least a 'See also' item. See: The Sultan's Elephant -and- Les Machines de l'île Nantes
~Thanks, ~E Modified:74.60.29.141 (talk) 17:37, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Largest Cities in France (Introduction)

Marseilles is the second-largest city in France but is omitted from your list. Dick Kimball (talk) 16:10, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

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Proposed complete change to citation/reference format

As per the current FAC, I am completely revising the citation/reference format in a personal sandbox. I'm making good progress, but won't be able to finish today. Please do comment here if you object to a complete change. If anyone objects, I will stop (or if I have already done it here in mainspace, I will be willing to revert my changes then). I can probably change it tomorrow if that's OK.
By the way, if anyone is certain that the page numbers of Pétré-Grenouilleau, Olivier (2008) match those of Pétré-Grenouilleau, Olivier (2002), we could fix one error that's repeated several times. Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 16:11, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your attention and your help, it is really appreciated. For Pétré-Grenouilleau, I think that all references should be 2008 actually. I don't know why I put 2002, must have been confused with another book. Oie blanche (talk) 16:14, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

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Chronology

Quick question: In the section on the Middle Ages, it included this statement:

After the death of Charlemagne, the Breton armies invaded the March. Nominoe, first Duke of Brittany, seized Nantes in 850. The first decades of Breton rule in Nantes were difficult as Breton lords kept fighting between each other, preventing them to be able to stop Viking incursions. The most spectacular in Nantes occurred in 843, when the Viking warriors killed the bishop. Nantes was finally integrated to the Viking realm in 919, but the Norse were expelled from the town in 937 by Alan II, Duke of Brittany.

Can someone help me figure out where Nominoe should fit into the narrative? It seems like it naturally goes like this:

Charlemagne dies in 817
Britons invade shortly thereafter but fight amongst themselves
Vikings attack in 843
Vikings take over in 919
Vikings expelled in 937

Does Nominoe fight off the Vikings in 850? Or were the Britons *and* Vikings both fighting over the territory in the years preceding 850? – Todorojo (talk) 23:24, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

I've left a message on @Oie blanche:'s French talk page, asking them to come here, as they've done the sourcework for this article. My impression, gleaned from fr:Histoire de Nantes, is that Charlemagne died, Louis II came to the throne. Then there was an attempted coup by Lambert II, heir of a dispossessed Frankish family, of the then-Frankish lands of Brittany (including Nantes), by killing Ricwin of Nantes. Charles the Bald (Charlemagne's grandson, who succeeded Louis II) awarded the land to the wrong person, a Frank. Hell broke loose, and Nominoe, a Breton who was Lambert's ally, united the Bretons against the Franks. There was later a treaty, La paix d'Angers, which created an independent Brittany, which Nominoe's son ruled over as the Duke of Brittany. Vikings attacked in 919, and expelled in 937. The independence of Brittany lasted until a royal marriage was made. --122.108.141.214 (talk) 03:26, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

The first Viking raid happened in 843, while the town was still under Frankish control, and the Vikings did not settle. Thus Nominoe fought Franks in 850. Other raids occurred in the period and the Vikings integrated Nantes in their realm in 919. Regards, Oie blanche (talk) 08:40, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for clearing that up for us, Oie blanche. Is that information (that the Vikings did not conquer the Franks, and Nominoe later fought the Franks, and under Breton rule the Vikings integrated Nantes in 919) covered in Pétré-Grenouilleau 2008, p. 26? --122.108.141.214 (talk) 09:09, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Yes it is. By the way, I noticed that you made a remark about the sentence on Corbilo. The thing is that this city is mentioned in ancient texts, but these texts are too vague to precisely locate the city. Archeologists have never found its remains. It could have been Nantes, but also Saint-Nazaire, Le Pouliguen or even Ancenis. Oie blanche (talk) 16:23, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you again - that will make it easier to copyedit. I have tried to include the information you have given us on the page so that it is easy for everyone to understand the timeline. What do you think, @Todorojo:? Oie blanche, so Nantes is one of many candidates that could have been the ancient city of Corbilo? Are the other candidates mentioned in Decours 2006, p. 10.? --122.108.141.214 (talk) 02:48, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Yes, that's it, Nantes is one of the candidates that could have been Corbilo. I don't have Decours, 2006 with me anymore so I cannot double check the locations, but Pétré-Grenouilleau, 2008, 18, mentions Nantes, Saint-Nazaire and the Grande Brière as possible locations. Oie blanche (talk) 09:35, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you again! I have reworded this point to say that Nantes was possibly Corbilo. --122.108.141.214 (talk) 21:35, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

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Slavery Memorial

I just added a new section on the Nantes Slavery Memorial but am new to Misplaced Pages and am not sure I did everything right. Please feel free to go through and edit/fix any issues, thanks! :) Sirbubble (talk) 21:30, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

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