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*if the conversation is on your talk page or an article talk page, I will ] it. *if the conversation is on your talk page or an article talk page, I will ] it.
*if you start a thread here, please ] it '''here''', as I will most likely respond '''here''' unless you are rude and unpleasant - when I will probably remove it.

*if you start a thread here, please ] it '''here''', as I will most likely respond '''here''' unless you are rude and unpleasant.
|} |}
<font color=red size=12>READ! READ! READ!</font> <span style="color:red; font-size:xx-large">READ!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;READ!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;READ!</span>
{{clear}} {{clear}}
== '''Welcome!''' <small>(''We can't say that loudly enough!'')</small> ==

Here are a few links you might find helpful:

*]
*]
*]
*]
*]
*]
*]

You can sign your name on talk pages and votes by typing &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126;; our software automatically converts it to your username and the date.

If you have any questions or problems, no matter what they are, leave me a message on ]. Or, please come to the ''']''', where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type '''<code>{&#123;helpme}}</code>''' on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your :questions.

We're so glad you're here! --] 18:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your warm and helpful welcome!

As a non-native English speaker I'm always a bit worried that my contribution will be unintelligible.

<nowiki>{{helpme}}</nowiki>

Have I done anything wrong by creating a new article?
] 18:54, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
:No, you haven't. ] I've also answered this on ]. --] 10:01, 6 December 2006 (]]])

PS: I'm originally from Dresden in Germany but was a foundling by the occupying British forces after the firestorm. I'm semi-retired now.
] 18:54, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

'''<code>{&#123;helpme}}</code>''' I noticed that Misplaced Pages doesn't have an article on the oldest primary school in New Zealand and I don't feel qualified to write one. Instead I've e-mailed the current Principal of Nelson Central School and suggested he contribute one - was that a silly thing to do?
] 19:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)



<nowiki>{{helpme}}</nowiki>

Why do I have two distinctly10:22, 6 December 2006 (UTC)] different user pages?

The older (helpful) one is at
http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:W_Frank
and the newer (blank) one is at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:W._Frank&redirect=no

??
] 10:22, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
:You are ]; the other page is at ] (notice the . after the initial initial in your username). ] should be deleted because it corresponds to a non-existent user; if you find the information useful, you can copy it to this page first; to request its deletion, place {{tl|db-nouser}} on the page (in this case; there is a different tag for each ]). --] 10:47, 6 December 2006 (]]])
:(edit conflict) The former (not this page but the other) seems to have been created by mistake, as there is no user account by that name, you can safely ignore it or if you like redirect it here. ] (] • ]) 10:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, one and all!

I've marked the phantom for deletion now ( I hope, I'm so stupid I may have done it wrong again...)
] 10:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

== ] ==
I put a {{tl|prod}} message on ] because the article doesn't yet contain any content. I realise that you are waiting for Dr Potaka to respond to your email, but the article could have been created when he replies. Having empty articles make Misplaced Pages look bad. The effect of the message I put on the article is to ensure that it is deleted if nothing happens for five days or so. You could also start the article with information from . See how other New Zealand school articles are formatted, for example ].-<font face="cursive" color= "#808080">]</font> 05:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

:::Sorry about that. I'm very new to all this and there's a lot to learn. Thank you for your help. My motivation was that I did not like a dead (or red) internal link in my ] article...<br />] 12:20, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

:Also regarding the Nelson Central School article, any commentary ''about'' the article should go onto the ] rather than onto the article itself. This is a general Misplaced Pages convention (see ]). <br/>--] 15:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about that, as you see above, I'm brand new and (hopefully) learning about this wonderful animal every day.

I've also replied to you on your user page and also in the ].

Just this once, and hopefully just for a few hours (maximum 99) could you leave the article as it is until Dr Potaka or another editor shows up to start it?

Please forgive me for being a Newbie editor. When writing my article for ], I noticed a missing link for Nelson Central School. I then e-mailed Dr Potaka, Principal of Nelson Central School, suggesting he create (or delegate members of his staff) to create the missing article.

Subsequently I have received e-mails from others in the Nelson region indicating that he may be temporarily indisposed for the next couple of days.

I suggest, therefore, that you leave the Nelson Central School page in the condition I have reverted it to just now and '''including the scheduled for deletion box'''. That way if he, or no other editor, shows up to correct and expand the article, it will be deleted automatically in 5 days and if volunteers (or Dr Potaka himself, since I assume he will also be a Newbie to Misplaced Pages) show up in the meantime they will have a skeleton on which to hang flesh.

Thank you for your tolerance, forbearance and understanding<br />] 15:03, 7 December 2006 (UTC)!
] 15:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

:When I suggested you see how other school articles were formatted, I didn't mean for you to copy the whole article into Nelson Central School. You ended up with a mess of information mostly about the other school. I've now changed the article into a bare-bones article about Nelson Central. It no longer needs the prod. Feel free to improve this article yourself, but don't revert it to the previous mess.-<font face="cursive" color= "#808080">]</font> 19:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

::But I didn't, gadfium.

::According to the edit history, that Revision as of 12:52, 7 December 2006 was made by 89.240.127.10<br />
::I may be stupid but I'm not so stupid as to spell it "Neslon Centraql Skool" as that anonymous editor did...
However, I do take your general point and I will go in and try and clean it up a bit later this afternoon. Thank you for your useful and pertinent comments.<br />
::] 15:26, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Your change to ] ==

I reverted your change to ] because at the time the walnuts were distributed by merchant marines, who were also, like their civilian counterparts maritime merchants. If I am wrong about this, please explain on the talk page before reverting. Thank you. ] 18:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

:Mmm. Are we talking here about Royal Marines (the military) who were doing a bit of trading, or the English Merchant Navy (also doing a bit of trading) or what exactly?] 20:08, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

== ] ==

I reverted your change to the ] link. This is because the name of the diocese is exactly that - with the comma. This is because the Anglican church in NZ is made up of three threads or traditions - Tikanga Pakeha (broadly those of European origin), Tikanga Maori (broadly those of Maori origin) and Tikanga Pasifika (broadly those of Pacific Island origin). The "Aotearoa" part of the name refers to the five Hui Amorangi, the "New Zealand" to the seven Dioceses - both of these split up New Zealand, but differently. So you are right that Aotearoa is New Zealand, but not that the name should have a slash in it. ] 21:55, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

:Thank you for correcting my inadvertent error - I mistakenly thought that this was an example of ignorant grammar rather than a considered ecclesiastical decision. God be with you! ] 13:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

==Appreciate your support on deleters==

Thanks frank, it takes a lot to stand up in support for what you feel is worth speaking to. ] is a great development on line. Hope Fiji can work it out and not have UN intervention.

] 12:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

== Are you threatening me? ==
] 17:06, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

No.] 14:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

=== GRU article ===
Your comment on GRU page history is uncivil and personal attack. If you continue restoring obvious falsification that GRU was helping Saddam Hussein and would continue personal attack on me, I would report you on administrators noticeboard.] 17:06, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

:We will have to agree to disagree that my comments were an uncivil and personal attack.

:This is what I wrote as a comment:

:"=== Large scale deletions without consensus ===

:At 16:38, 8 April 2007 (UTC) I placed a comment on the talk page of ] who has been conspicuous by
:* his absence from these pages
:* his consecutive deletions, without any prior discussion, of material provided by other editors

:This is the exact quote of what I wrote on his user page:

:"Misplaced Pages as a community has rules to prevent edit wars.

:One of these is the ] rule.


__NOTOC__
:If you wish to delete large passages of another editor's work without providing any references, it is more polite to discuss your proposed changes on the article's talk page FIRST.


:If you do not, your excisions may be regarded as vandalism.


:Please proceed immediately to ] and discuss your point of view (POV) with fellow editors there before reverting this article again.


:If you do not, you run the risk of being blocked from Misplaced Pages.


:You may find that ] provides some helpful guidance. Thank you for your anticipated compliance."


:Within less than half an hour (and without any further discussion or comment) at 17:05, 8 April 2007 Vlad fedorov had expunged my comments using the following as his edit summary: "Personal offence removed"


:I am posting my comments here because I have a strong suspicion that any further help I offer on Vlad fedorov's user pages will also be expunged.] 17:31, 8 April 2007 (UTC)"


:Now I have emphasised some points that I believe are relevant to your deprecated behaviour with regards to ], your own talk pages and elsewhere:


Misplaced Pages's contributors come from many different countries and cultures. We have different views, perspectives, and backgrounds, sometimes varying widely. Treating others with respect is key to collaborating effectively in building an encyclopedia.


== ] ==
'''Principles of Misplaced Pages etiquette'''
Hello W. Frank. Regarding you recent comments about your friend, Gaimhreadhan's terminal illness. I wonder if you would consider, either privately or publically, informing an administrator on the sad event of his passing. There are a few (administrative) things we typically do in on the death of a Wikipedian. Thank you for your consideration, and my sympathies at this most difficult of times. ]<span style="color:black">e</span>] 17:10, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


:I think I understand.
* ]. Misplaced Pages has worked remarkably well so far based on a policy of nearly complete freedom to edit. People come here to collaborate and write good articles.
* Treat others as you would have them treat you – even if they are new. We were all new once...
* Be polite, please!
** Keep in mind that raw text is ambiguous and often seems ruder than the same words coming from a person standing in front of you. Irony isn't always obvious - text comes without facial expressions, vocal inflection or body language. Be careful of the words you choose – what you intended might not be what others perceive, and what you read might not be what the author intended.
* Work toward agreement.
* Argue facts, not personalities.
* Don't ignore questions.
** If another disagrees with your edit, provide good reasons why you think it's appropriate.
* Concede a point when you have no response to it, or admit when you disagree based on intuition or taste.
* Be ].
* Although it's understandably difficult in a heated argument, if other editors are not as civil as you'd like them to be, make sure to be '''more''' civil than they, not less. That way at least you're not spiralling down to open conflict and name-calling by your own accord; you're actively doing something about it: taking a hit and refraining from hitting back – everybody appreciates that (or at least they should).
** However, don't hesitate to let the other party know that you're not comfortable with their tone in a neutral way – otherwise they might think you're too dense to understand their "subtlety", and you'll involuntarily encourage them (e.g. "I know you've been sarcastic above, but I don't think that's helping us resolve the issue. However, I don't think your argument stands because...").
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* Remove or summarize resolved disputes that you initiated.
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* If you're arguing, take a break. If you're mediating, recommend a break.
** Take it slow. If you're angry, take time out instead of posting or editing. Come back in a day or a week. You might find that someone else has made the desired change or comment for you. If no one is mediating, and you think mediation is needed, enlist someone.
** Walk away or find another Misplaced Pages article to distract yourself – there are {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} articles on Misplaced Pages! Take up a ] or ], or lend your much-needed services at ] and ]. Or ].
** Nominate yourself for a list of other articles to work on, provided by ].
* Remember ].
* Review the list of ].
* Avoid reverts and deletions whenever possible, and stay within the ] except in cases of clear vandalism. Explain reversions in the edit summary box.
** Amend, edit, ].
* Remind yourself that these are ''people'' you're dealing with. They are individuals with feelings and probably have other people in the world who love them. Try to treat others with dignity.
* Remember ]: "treat others as you want them to treat you."


:Please would you ask a senior administrator or bureaucrat to e-mail me.
'''How to avoid abuse of talk pages'''
:(He or she needs to be a real person with a physical address. I need a promise of confidentiality before I send the relevant documents.)


:Since I have spoken with Fred Bauder before, he would seem the obvious choice.
* Most people take pride in their work and in their point of view. Egos can easily get hurt in editing, but talk pages are not a place for striking back. They're a good place to ''comfort'' or undo damage to egos, but most of all they're for forging agreements that are best for the articles they're attached to. If someone disagrees with you, try to understand why, and in your discussion on the talk pages take the time to provide good reasons why you think your way is better.
* Don't ''label'' or '']'' people or their edits.
** Terms like "racist", "sexist" or even "poorly written" make people defensive. This makes it hard to discuss articles productively. If you have to criticize, you must do it in a polite and constructive manner.
* Always make clear what point you are addressing, especially in replies.
** In responding, make it clear what idea you are responding to. Quoting a post is O.K., but paraphrasing it or stating how you interpreted it is better.


:I shall also comment on some housekeeping matters on your user page, since I think it inappropriate to comment here at this time. &nbsp;''']'''&nbsp;] 08:43, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
'''Working towards a neutral point of view'''
<small>]&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp; 18:40, 13 August 2007 (UTC)]</small>


===<div style="text-align: center;"><big> Condolences </big></div>===
When we correct violations of the ] (NPOV) policy, we often make the mistake of using phrases like "foo points out that" or "xy explains". These phrases themselves can be seen as non-NPOV, as they imply a certain agreement by Misplaced Pages. The original author then often sees this as non-NPOV and deletes the changes, and eventually, an edit war results. It is better to use the following procedure:
Can I just say W. Frank that I was very sad indeed to hear this news. I always found Gaimhreadhan to be humane, well-motivated, funny and interesting and he will be missed here on Misplaced Pages. He often had a good word to say in bad situations and we were in email contact only a few days ago. You have my deepest condolences. All my best, Mark. ] 17:21, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


:Thank you, Mark.
# Inquire politely on the article's talk page about aspects of the article you consider non-NPOV (unless they are really egregious), and suggest replacements.
# If no reply comes, make the substitutions. (Use your watchlist to keep track of what you want to do.)
# If a reply comes, try to agree about the wording to be used.


:Thank you also for the e-mails of sympathy I have received.
That way, when an agreement is reached, an edit war is very unlikely. The disadvantage is that the article stays in an unsatisfying state for a longer period of time, but an article that changes frequently doesn't create good impression with other Wikipedians or of the project as a whole.
:Unless any of you object, I shall print out any public condolences made in the section below and give them to his wife when I go to Ireland. Obviously, that may be some time yet.


:Please forgive me if I do not reply individually to other messages below and to any of your sympathetic e-mails. They are very welcome and will be a comfort to his family but I am rather busy at this time. Frank.
'''A few things to bear in mind'''


* Misplaced Pages articles are supposed to represent all views (more at ]), instead of supporting one over another, even if you believe something strongly. Talk ("discussion") pages are not a place to debate value judgments about which of those views are right or wrong or better. If you want to do that, there are venues such as ], public ]s and other ]s. Use article talk pages to discuss the accuracy/inaccuracy, POV bias, or other problems in the article, not as a ] for ].
* If someone disagrees with you, this does not necessarily mean that the person hates you, that the person thinks you're stupid, that the person themself is stupid, or that the person is mean. When people post opinions without practical implications for the article, it's best to just leave them be. What you think is not necessarily right or necessarily wrong – a common example of this is ]. Before you think about insulting someone's views, think about what would happen if they insulted your religion. Also, always remember that anything that is written on Misplaced Pages is kept permanently, even if it is not visible.
* '''''Try to avoid deleting things as a matter of principle. When you amend and edit, it is remarkable how you might see something useful in what was said. Most people have something useful to say. That includes you. Deletion upsets people and makes them feel they have wasted their time – consider moving their text to a sub-directory of their user pages instead (saying not quite the right place for it but so they can still use it): much less provocative.'''''
* Misplaced Pages invites you to ]. Before initiating discussion, ask yourself: is this really necessary to discuss? Could I provide a ] with my edit and wait for others to quibble if they like?
* You can always take a discussion to ] or to your user page if it's not essential to the article.
* If you know you don't get along with someone, don't interact with them more than you need to. Unnecessary conflict distracts everyone from the task of making a good encyclopaedia, and is just unpleasant. Actually following someone you dislike around Misplaced Pages is sometimes considered ], and is frowned on because it can be disruptive. If you don't get along with someone, try to become more friendly. If that doesn't help the situation then it is probably best to avoid them.
* Though editing articles is acceptable (and, in fact, encouraged), editing the signed words of another editor on a talk page or other discussion page is generally ''not'' acceptable, as it can alter the intent or message of the original comment and misrepresent the original editor's thoughts. Try to avoid editing another editor's comments unless absolutely necessary.


<!-- Please do not indent or reply to other comments in the section ABOVE.
:If you really continue to regard any of this as a personal attack (as opposed to an attack on your intolerable attempts at political censorship) then I think it would indeed be a very good idea to "report on administrators noticeboard" - perhaps I should not have pointed you towards the WP articles referenced above.] 14:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Please comment BELOW, but please do not indent or reply to other comments
in this section BELOW here (since I shall print this section off and take it to his family.
Please leave one clear line only between each separate comment. Thank you, Frank. -->


W. Frank, I'm really sorry to have heard about this. Gaimhreadhan had been pmailing me up until two days ago. I'd owed him a long email as there was lots unsaid yet. Pmailing you now .... - ] ] 21:50, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
I have published the first text on case of Alexey Galkin so-called "confessions". The other texts would follow shortly. Especially on the allegation of hiding Saddam Hussein's "weapons of mass destruction" and allegations of promoting the terrorism. I advise you, as you are not competent in Russian and couldn't study Russian sources which are usually not published by Western media, to stop your dispute. I would like to note that both of the articles I use in my text about Alexey Galkin are from ] - which is anti-Putin newspaper. One of their journalists was ]. Both of the articles are supportive of Alexey Galkin. They contain not only the interview and transcript of "confession", but also comments of the newspaper journalists and conclusion of phsychologist who has studied the videotape of Galkin "confessions". Moreover, the transcript of Alexey Galkin press conference which was interrupted in two places by ] is telling enough about voluntarity of these confessions. If I would describe in such way all accounts of false allegations in this article, the article itself would be bigger and contain rather irrelevant information, than infromation on ]. ] 08:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


Just heard the.. well.. not news, but he's in my prayers. :( ] 08:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
::I don't really think that my user talk pages (or yours) are the place to discuss this. Please take this to ] and discuss your point of view (POV) with fellow editors there. ] 14:43, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


*RIP a chara.--] 08:47, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
== Warrenpoint Ambush ==


My condolences, and I drank a toast to him tonight using the excellent Irish whiskey he so kindly gave me.-] 09:08, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
W.Frank, firstly howiya! secondly the terrorism category in the - the term terrorism is a divisive and largely POV term and is outlined as a term to be avoided by wiki. It is usually used where the target of an attack was specifically civilians. I know you didn't add the cat but you replaced it, however, it is an incorrect and POV category - unless you think the British Army targeted the civilian they killed because they thought he was a civilian and are happy to write into the article that the British Army are terrorists for killing the civilian then I would suggest that this category does not suit this article.


P.S. I am always happy to help in any way and I am always contactable on my talk page. regards --] 15:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC) RIP Gaimhreadhan Ill say a prayer.--] 11:15, 11 August 2007 (UTC)


Slán, a chara, RIP. --] 11:25, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
:1) Good day to you, Sir! Thank you for your friendly offer of assistance and for your tone of voice. I try and steer clear of controversy since there seem to be so many more impolite editors on Misplaced Pages these days.


RIP Gaimhreadhan. I'd only known him from this site and, latterly, by email, but his wit and generosity of spirit were plain to see. Slán leat, a chara. ]<sup>]</sup> 22:12, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
:2) I do so agree with your point of view regarding less inflammatory wording '''in article text''' - however, in categorisations we need to be brief and pithy - a bit like a tabloid headline, in fact.


RIP, my condolences to his family and friends.--] 22:44, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
:However, if you check the edit logs for the article ] you will see that I did '''not''' restore, add or replace the ].


My sympathy to his family and friends. Based on his zestful participation up to the last hours of his short life, (which included a fulsome welcome back to me from the holidays just 3 days ago) - he was a man of great humour and great courage. ] 23:29, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
:It was already there in the version by the previous editor ]. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Warrenpoint_Ambush&oldid=121540790 if you doubt my veracity.


Пусть земля тебе будет пухом. Соглашусь с Сарой. (Let the ground be a soft for you. I agree with Sarah. I will be active till all the days in my life as you were.) ] 23:38, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
:My general policy is to have as many helpful categorisations as possible since it helps readers explore the wonderful source of knowledge that is Misplaced Pages - especially children.


Que les vaya bien a el y a su familia y amigos en este tiempo dificil, ] 00:11, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
:Now, I wonder if we can continue to discuss this at ]


Please accept my condolences. My interactions with Gaimhreadhan, though brief, were always insightful and warm. His sincere attempts at bettering our community will be sadly missed. ]<span style="color:black">e</span>] 01:22, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
:Since I'm always reluctant to censor the Good Faith efforts of others, may I ask you to copy edit this dialogue there?


All the comrades e'er he had, they're sorry for his going away. Rest in peace.--] ]/] 08:11, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
:3) Sadly, in this era of assymetrical warfare the concept of civilian has rather lapsed. I was a foundling in the smoking ruins of a city that was "terrorised" by the American hero Winston S Churchill and his Terrorflieger. Do you not think the categorisation is correct since the ] article records one of the greatest military defeats of the British Army in recent years?] 15:45, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


I was asked to do an article on another subject, which led me to many of the articles to which
==This should make things clear==
Gaimhreadhan contributed. He argued his case passionately, well and with humor. The world is poorer for his passing. Requiescat in pace. ] 09:06, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


May your kind spirit long prevail amongst us. Slán agus gura maith agat. ] 12:00, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Why do I edit Irish Republicanism articles? Perhaps because they needed improving? I'll take selected examples from my user page.


I believe we have lost a great Wikipedian. An honest man who was funny, intelligent and wise - who always expected the best of others. It is very sad. ]<small>]</small> 21:33, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
*] - , ] disaster wouldn't you agree?


I concur with the above. I had spoken for over one hour on the last occasion with him and found him a delightful conversationalist, erudite and intelligent. I am upset this has happened. ] 19:43, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
::The latest version that you edited is much more encyclopaedic and multi-faceted; well done and you must be proud of all your hard work!


First of all, many thanks for keeping this page up whilst I was away. Looking back over my own contributions, I see that I first 'entered into a conversation' with Gaimhreadhan on ], less than a month before his death, although I had come across his posts earlier. I found someone with a very clever and funny sense of humour (albeit with a strong mischevious streak) and a refreshingly broad outlook. (His description of how there was now no rock on his family farm larger than a football after a thousand years of pounding away at them - and the help of some surplus gelignite - will stay with me for a long time.) It is one of the strange aspects of contributing to Misplaced Pages that we can come across different people, and form some sort of bond with them, without ever meeting them or knowing their most basic details. So it was with Gaimhreadhan; I wish that I had had the opportunity to know him better; I think that those like Frank and Gaimhreadhan's family must have had a wonderful experience in knowing him. I miss him already. Finally, I'd like to thank Frank for his 'housekeeping' work in what must be a very difficult time; it can't have been easy, and you've done a very good job.--] <small>]</small> 11:10, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
::I'll look at the other articles when I have time - please be patient.
::] 19:41, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


Very sad news. A wonderful Wikipedian. Prudent, just, and intelligent. His bravery and loyalty in standing up for Sarah777 unto his passing is the most touching and inspiring of events I have ever had the privilege to witness. A loss to Misplaced Pages, and the Irish Wikipedian community especially. Slán, a Ghaimhreadhan. Cronfar tú, a h-uasal. --]<sup>]</sup> 22:25, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


<!-- Please do not indent or reply to other comments in the condolence sub-section ABOVE.
*] - , a lot of the information wasn't sourced by the one (!) reference provided, and it too had ] problems.
Please place new general comment sections ABOVE the "Gaimhreadhan" section. Please DO NOT WRITE ANYTHING BELOW HERE!!! Thank you; Frank. -->
*] - , again major sourcing and ] problems.
*] - , looks a lot better and has approx 30 more references.
*] - , now has triple the number of references.
*] - , had no references as opposed to the 74 (and growing) number it has at present.
So is it unreasonable for an editor with an interest in a certain subject area to concentrate on that subject area, considering the terrible state of those articles? Should the editor be branded as a "comrade" for improving the articles? I don't think so. <font face="Verdana">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 18:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


== ] closed ==
::I think you have to make allowances for language confusion here. I don't regard the terms republican or comrade pejorative (of themselves and obviously it depends on the context)'''... {long passages moved/archived to "Green Zone"} ...'''


The above named Arbitration case has closed. The Arbitration Committee decided that ''ny user who hereafter engages in edit-warring or disruptive editing on these or related articles may be placed on ] by any uninvolved administrator. This may include any user who was a party to this case, or any other user after a warning has been given''. The Committee also decided to uplift Vintagekits' indefinite block at the same time.
== Large scale deletions of the text by Biophys ==
Hello W.Frank,


The full decision can be viewed ].
Please come back to ] article where Biophys who published allegations of GRU participating in bombing of buildings in Moscow and rest of Russia and allegations of helping Saddam to hide his weapons now deletes the whole texts without discussion. ] 04:05, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
'''<center>...{another passage moved/archived to "Green Zone"} ...</center>'''


For the Arbitration Committee, ''']''' 08:23, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
==Newry mortar attack==
Allow me to explain why IRA is used in that article, to prevent further confusion. Post-1972 the Official IRA was on ceasefire, and the only active group using the term IRA was the Provisionals, which remained the case until the Continuity IRA became active in 1996. Unless more than one IRA is being referred to in a particular article or there's a risk of confusion, the standard usage is the acronym IRA. PIRA is not an acronym generally used except by the British Armed Forces, the common name in British, Irish and American media is the IRA. <font face="Verdana">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 02:09, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
:I understand. However, I think that a certain degree of precision is required in encyclopedia articles. US presidents may say they are making a state visit to England, but we both know that, if it is a state visit, they really mean the UK. However, you are by far the expert when it comes to these matters, so please feel free to revert my edit if you feel it muddies rather than clarifies the waters. Tschuess! ] 02:15, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
::Well I thought it best to explain, should you be about to make any further changes of that nature. The media never (well, hardly ever) use the PIRA term, and even the PIRA article makes it clear it's more commonly known as the IRA. I think some clarification may be needed on the Fitzgerald part similar to your edit, but not in that exact form. At present the sentence starts with "Irish Prime Minister Garret FitzGerald", so it would make more sense to clarify that particular Irish rather than the latter one possibly? I'll change the PIRA parts back for now, but await further discussion tomorrow on that part. <font face="Verdana">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 02:23, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
:::I hope the edits I've made to the PIRA article now meet with your approval - I've clarified the reference to the Irish PM and inserted a fact template. I'm off to enjoy the good weather while it lasts now, I hope the sun shines on you too! ] 18:49, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
::::I actually thought that statement was sourced later in the article, but as it transpired it wasn't but it isn't really under dispute anyway and it's since been sources. The Newry page still needs slight tweaking I think, I'll take a look at it later. <font face="Verdana">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 06:36, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


==Hello==
== Category:IRA killings ==


Are you still contributing (I hope so)? Please could you see ] (no relation, I trust!) and have a look at the article. Any help gratefully received.--] <small>]</small> 19:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I see you recreated this category. I have deleted it again; I left the talk page undeleted and suggest you take forward any argument for recreating the category there. Although the result of the AfD debate was keep, I think the debate has moved on a good way since then and can see no useful purpose now in retaining it. Please let me know if you disagree. --] 17:31, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


:PS; an interesting User box ].--] <small>]</small> 17:55, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
== British Isles edit ==
Hi Frank. I removed "geographical" because it is likely to lead to conflict and was unnecessary - if the article begins with "The British Isles is a group of islands ..." why is it necessary to explain that the term is "geographical"? I added "... and its use is avoided in relations between the governments of the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom" because this is true (if necessary I can add references?) and it is notable that an otherwise common term would be deliberately avoided in dialogue between the two sovereign states that occupy the region.
This is why I believe that "geographical" is likely to lead to conflict. When describing the names of places, "geographical" and "political" terms are often contrasted with each other. "Geographical" can be read to imply that a term is a neutral, not to be confused with the world of politics. Opening a sentence that deals with political objections to a term by stating that the term is "geographical" thus implies a judgement on the validity of those objection. --]<sup>]</sup> 00:46, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
:Thank you for your explanation. I think we will have to agree to disagree. I think that one or two words in the lede emphasising that the "British Isles" is a geographical term rather than a political term or a statement of colonial possession '''is''' appropriate to dispel any confusion right from the start. The business about the naming dispute is dealt with in depth in a separate section '''and''' a separate article referenced within the ] article, so I think the emphasis is wrong. God bless! ] 12:46, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


==ArbCom Elections comments==
==Deletion==
Hi. Regarding your recent comments on candidate votes pages, unfortunately, they are too long and should be made at the voting talk page. The maximum length should be two short sentences. This determination was reached on prior consensus on the ]. I've gone ahead and moved them appropriately, but feel free to edit my move to your liking. However, extended comments, like the ones you provided, belong on the talk page. Thanks, and forgive the inconvenience. - <span style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 11pt">] <sup><small>(])</small></sup></span> 13:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
] ] 04:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
:Thank you. I've given up on the weather here in Glasgow ever improving, so I'm off to start my belated holiday. ''']''' ] 07:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)


== Re your ] account ==
==HPA==
I was heartened by your extremely intelligent and factual remarks on the AfD for the Hereditary Peerage Association, which has become quite a talked-about body in London. The nominator is constantly AfDing anything to do with the old British establishment which he quite obviously loathes. Thank you again for your comments. A breath of fresh air. ] 19:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
:If you think that he voted in support of the HPA for any other reason than to have a go at me then I am shocked.--] 21:52, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
::Go and sit on your perch.''']''' ]


:, Frank you and your ] I want to keep away from my talk page. I ] and remained ] dispite your allagations. I was willing to accept any sanctions handed down by the ArbCom, but you ran away when questions started to be asked, and created a ]. Now why don't you present yourself to the ArbCom, using your real account, and answer the allagations you made against me regarding ] and the other Editors you labled as such. And yes, I do now consider it a ]. --] (]) 18:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
==Bloody Friday (1972)==


==]==
Please stop removing sourced statements and changing them with your preferred
FYI. ] (]) 04:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
POV version. You have no consensus for these changes, and have refused to engage in discussion on the talk page. If you continue I will seek dispute resolution. <font face="Verdana">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 18:20, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
:You are not giving editors a chance to either discuss or implement changes without reversion. This article is not your personal possession and I am quite happy to discuss changes with you - indeed that is my preference - however the consensus that you speak of is a ''recent status quo'' achieved through driving away other editors with a less vehement and single purpose point of view. None of the quoted references support your POV that the lede should summarise an illusionary targeting of military and <del>civilian<del> economic targets rather than the '''results of the bombings'''. Just actually read the BBC articles you are so fond of quoting. You are in grave dange of breaching 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6. ''']''' ] 18:35, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
::Dispute resolution here you come then. <font face="Verdana">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 18:36, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


:Regarding the above, there are diffs clearly showing that you have engaged in ] with ''ad hominem'' arguments. Please avoid doing this again. If you do, then sanctions per ArbCom will be applied without further notice. ] (]) 05:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
== Irish neutrality during World War II ==


There is an ongoing discussion concerning yourself and your latest actions should you care to take part. --] (]) 09:50, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
The article ] has been nominated for deletion. Please add your opinion to ] on AfD. --]<sup>]</sup> 22:16, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


== Hello ==
== Warning regarding your edit to ] ==


Hello again, W. Frank! Perhaps I've missed something, but I can't really see what all the fuss is about. Hope that you keep editing. --] <small>]</small> 14:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
] Welcome to Misplaced Pages. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. However, adding content without ] a ] is not consistent with our policy of ]. Take a look at the ] to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you.<!-- {{uw-unsourced1}} -->---<font face="Georgia">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 23:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
:This is an unhelpful comment; see: ].--] <small>]</small> 09:50, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


:Apart from , , and , you may have a point, or just wish to make one. Like this is the standard we expect from editors? --] (]) 19:03, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
==Arb Com==
You might be interested in this ]. --] <small>]</small> 09:50, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
:Thanks for alerting me to this, Major, but life isn't long enough; I've already been victimised by the provisional wing of the wikipedia administration and I don't want to be set upon by the FSB as well - these guys are '''''professional''''' you know, in every sense of the word''']''' ] 17:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


::, it seems. Interesting entry on 21st June. Now, seeing as you say above "I want to keep away from my talk page", perhaps you'd extend the same courtesy to Frank? ]<sup>]</sup> 19:47, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
==Your edit to Birmingham pub bombings and other articles==


Why not provide a link for the 21st June if it's an interesting entry? Now why not pick one of the links above I provided and comment there. Are you of the same mind as Major Bonkers, and can't really see what all the fuss is about? Now I'll comment on this subject ''were ever'' it is raised, and will continue to do so untill told otherwise. I will extend the same courtesy to Frank, only I'll do it with just one ]. --] (]) 20:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Please stop changing text against the consensus on ]. ] 10:33, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


==Blocked==
I concur with above statement.--] 10:39, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Per the suggestion at ], I am blocking this account indefinitely. W. Frank is able to create a new account (his real life details were revealed by another editor), but he should contact ArbCom via mailing list to set up the terms under which this new account may edit Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 05:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)


== Clarification motion ==
==Gaimhreadhan==
Hello W. Frank. Regarding you recent comments about your friend, Gaimhreadhan's terminal illness. I wonder if you would consider, either privately or publically, informing an administrator on the sad event of his passing. There are a few (administrative) things we typically do in on the death of a Wikipedian. Thank you for your consideration, and my sympathies at this most difficult of times. ]<font color="black">e</font>] 17:10, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


A case (]) in which you were involved has been modified by {{oldid2|631252824|Motion|motion}} which changed the wording of the ] to clarify that the scope applies to pages, not just articles. For the arbitration committee --]] 21:04, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
:Can I just say W. Frank that I was very sad indeed to hear this news. I always found Gaimhreadhan to be humane, well-motivated, funny and interesting and he will be missed here on Misplaced Pages. He often had a good word to say in bad situations and we were in email contact only a few days ago. You have my deepest condolences. All my best, Mark. ] 17:21, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 12:52, 19 September 2023


W. Frank is trying to take a short wikibreak and will be back on Misplaced Pages on the day justice and common sense prevails. Most likely, however, W. Frank will not be able to keep away from Misplaced Pages for that long, and will probably be back a lot earlier while making some small edits every once in a while anyway.
Note:

I think inter-personal communication works best when messages are aggregated on individual users' talk pages rather than split - especially when a third party wishes to read or reply. Also, I get confused easily.  :)

  • if the conversation is on your talk page or an article talk page, I will watch it.
  • if you start a thread here, please watch it here, as I will most likely respond here unless you are rude and unpleasant - when I will probably remove it.

READ!     READ!     READ!






Gaimhreadhan

Hello W. Frank. Regarding you recent comments about your friend, Gaimhreadhan's terminal illness. I wonder if you would consider, either privately or publically, informing an administrator on the sad event of his passing. There are a few (administrative) things we typically do in on the death of a Wikipedian. Thank you for your consideration, and my sympathies at this most difficult of times. Rockpocket 17:10, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I think I understand.
Please would you ask a senior administrator or bureaucrat to e-mail me.
(He or she needs to be a real person with a physical address. I need a promise of confidentiality before I send the relevant documents.)
Since I have spoken with Fred Bauder before, he would seem the obvious choice.
I shall also comment on some housekeeping matters on your user page, since I think it inappropriate to comment here at this time.  W. Frank ✉ 08:43, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Condolences

Can I just say W. Frank that I was very sad indeed to hear this news. I always found Gaimhreadhan to be humane, well-motivated, funny and interesting and he will be missed here on Misplaced Pages. He often had a good word to say in bad situations and we were in email contact only a few days ago. You have my deepest condolences. All my best, Mark. MarkThomas 17:21, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, Mark.
Thank you also for the e-mails of sympathy I have received.
Unless any of you object, I shall print out any public condolences made in the section below and give them to his wife when I go to Ireland. Obviously, that may be some time yet.
Please forgive me if I do not reply individually to other messages below and to any of your sympathetic e-mails. They are very welcome and will be a comfort to his family but I am rather busy at this time. Frank.


W. Frank, I'm really sorry to have heard about this. Gaimhreadhan had been pmailing me up until two days ago. I'd owed him a long email as there was lots unsaid yet. Pmailing you now .... - Alison ☺ 21:50, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Just heard the.. well.. not news, but he's in my prayers. :( SirFozzie 08:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

My condolences, and I drank a toast to him tonight using the excellent Irish whiskey he so kindly gave me.-gadfium 09:08, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

RIP Gaimhreadhan Ill say a prayer.--BigDunc 11:15, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Slán, a chara, RIP. --Domer48 11:25, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

RIP Gaimhreadhan. I'd only known him from this site and, latterly, by email, but his wit and generosity of spirit were plain to see. Slán leat, a chara. Bastun 22:12, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

RIP, my condolences to his family and friends.--padraig 22:44, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

My sympathy to his family and friends. Based on his zestful participation up to the last hours of his short life, (which included a fulsome welcome back to me from the holidays just 3 days ago) - he was a man of great humour and great courage. Sarah777 23:29, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Пусть земля тебе будет пухом. Соглашусь с Сарой. (Let the ground be a soft for you. I agree with Sarah. I will be active till all the days in my life as you were.) Alexandre Koriakine 23:38, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Que les vaya bien a el y a su familia y amigos en este tiempo dificil, SqueakBox 00:11, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Please accept my condolences. My interactions with Gaimhreadhan, though brief, were always insightful and warm. His sincere attempts at bettering our community will be sadly missed. Rockpocket 01:22, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

All the comrades e'er he had, they're sorry for his going away. Rest in peace.--Cúchullain /c 08:11, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I was asked to do an article on another subject, which led me to many of the articles to which Gaimhreadhan contributed. He argued his case passionately, well and with humor. The world is poorer for his passing. Requiescat in pace. Anameofmyveryown 09:06, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

May your kind spirit long prevail amongst us. Slán agus gura maith agat. Osioni 12:00, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe we have lost a great Wikipedian. An honest man who was funny, intelligent and wise - who always expected the best of others. It is very sad. Kittybrewster (talk) 21:33, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I concur with the above. I had spoken for over one hour on the last occasion with him and found him a delightful conversationalist, erudite and intelligent. I am upset this has happened. David Lauder 19:43, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

First of all, many thanks for keeping this page up whilst I was away. Looking back over my own contributions, I see that I first 'entered into a conversation' with Gaimhreadhan on July 20h., less than a month before his death, although I had come across his posts earlier. I found someone with a very clever and funny sense of humour (albeit with a strong mischevious streak) and a refreshingly broad outlook. (His description of how there was now no rock on his family farm larger than a football after a thousand years of pounding away at them - and the help of some surplus gelignite - will stay with me for a long time.) It is one of the strange aspects of contributing to Misplaced Pages that we can come across different people, and form some sort of bond with them, without ever meeting them or knowing their most basic details. So it was with Gaimhreadhan; I wish that I had had the opportunity to know him better; I think that those like Frank and Gaimhreadhan's family must have had a wonderful experience in knowing him. I miss him already. Finally, I'd like to thank Frank for his 'housekeeping' work in what must be a very difficult time; it can't have been easy, and you've done a very good job.--Major Bonkers (talk) 11:10, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Very sad news. A wonderful Wikipedian. Prudent, just, and intelligent. His bravery and loyalty in standing up for Sarah777 unto his passing is the most touching and inspiring of events I have ever had the privilege to witness. A loss to Misplaced Pages, and the Irish Wikipedian community especially. Slán, a Ghaimhreadhan. Cronfar tú, a h-uasal. --sony-youth 22:25, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles closed

The above named Arbitration case has closed. The Arbitration Committee decided that ny user who hereafter engages in edit-warring or disruptive editing on these or related articles may be placed on Misplaced Pages:Probation by any uninvolved administrator. This may include any user who was a party to this case, or any other user after a warning has been given. The Committee also decided to uplift Vintagekits' indefinite block at the same time.

The full decision can be viewed here.

For the Arbitration Committee, Daniel 08:23, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Hello

Are you still contributing (I hope so)? Please could you see here (no relation, I trust!) and have a look at the article. Any help gratefully received.--Major Bonkers (talk) 19:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

PS; an interesting User box here.--Major Bonkers (talk) 17:55, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections comments

Hi. Regarding your recent comments on candidate votes pages, unfortunately, they are too long and should be made at the voting talk page. The maximum length should be two short sentences. This determination was reached on prior consensus on the ArbCom Elections talk page. I've gone ahead and moved them appropriately, but feel free to edit my move to your liking. However, extended comments, like the ones you provided, belong on the talk page. Thanks, and forgive the inconvenience. - Mtmelendez 13:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Re your Sock account

While it should go without saying, Frank you and your Socks I want to keep away from my talk page. I assumed good faith and remained civil dispite your allagations. I was willing to accept any sanctions handed down by the ArbCom, but you ran away when questions started to be asked, and created a Sock. Now why don't you present yourself to the ArbCom, using your real account, and answer the allagations you made against me regarding WP:COI and the other Editors you labled as such. And yes, I do now consider it a personal attack. --Domer48 (talk) 18:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

WP:TER#User:W. Frank

FYI. Tyrenius (talk) 04:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the above, there are diffs clearly showing that you have engaged in personal attacks with ad hominem arguments. Please avoid doing this again. If you do, then sanctions per ArbCom will be applied without further notice. Tyrenius (talk) 05:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

There is an ongoing discussion here concerning yourself and your latest actions should you care to take part. --Domer48 (talk) 09:50, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello

Hello again, W. Frank! Perhaps I've missed something, but I can't really see what all the fuss is about. Hope that you keep editing. --Major Bonkers (talk) 14:04, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Apart from this, this, this and thi, you may have a point, or just wish to make one. Like this is the standard we expect from editors? --Domer48 (talk) 19:03, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
He's not alone, it seems. Interesting entry on 21st June. Now, seeing as you say above "I want to keep away from my talk page", perhaps you'd extend the same courtesy to Frank? Bastun 19:47, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Why not provide a link for the 21st June if it's an interesting entry? Now why not pick one of the links above I provided and comment there. Are you of the same mind as Major Bonkers, and can't really see what all the fuss is about? Now I'll comment on this subject were ever it is raised, and will continue to do so untill told otherwise. I will extend the same courtesy to Frank, only I'll do it with just one account. --Domer48 (talk) 20:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Blocked

Per the suggestion at WT:RFARB, I am blocking this account indefinitely. W. Frank is able to create a new account (his real life details were revealed by another editor), but he should contact ArbCom via mailing list to set up the terms under which this new account may edit Misplaced Pages. SirFozzie (talk) 05:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Clarification motion

A case (The Troubles) in which you were involved has been modified by motion which changed the wording of the discretionary sanctions section to clarify that the scope applies to pages, not just articles. For the arbitration committee --S Philbrick(Talk) 21:04, 27 October 2014 (UTC)