Talk:Psychic surgery: Difference between revisions

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			== Kaufman ==
	{{Archive box\|
	#]
	#]
	#]
	}}


	__TOC__

	==Final V==
	{\| border="2"
	\|-
	\| '''Definition'''
	\| "Psychic surgery typically involves the apparent creation of an ] using only the bare hands, removal of ] matter, and then the instantaneous healing of the incision."
	\|-
	\| '''Practicioners.'''
	\| ''Accounts of psychic surgery began appearing in the in the ] communitites of the ] and ] in the mid-].''
	\|-
	\| '''Controversy'''
	\| ''Psychic surgery has been condemned in many countries as a form of medical fraud.<ref name="FTCD6">{{cite web \| title=FTC Decision, July-December 1975 \| url=http://www.ftc.gov/os/decisions/docs/vol86/FTC_VOLUME_DECISION_86_(JULY_-_DECEMBER_1975)PAGES_715-825.pdf \| accessdate=2007-08-19 \|format= \|work=}}</ref><ref name=FTC1>{{cite web \|url=http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E17F73C5B157493C7AB178BD95F418785F9 \|title=F.T.C. Curtails the Promotion Of All Psychic Surgery Tours - The New York Times \|accessdate=2007-08-19 \|format= \|work=}}</ref><ref name="pmid2110023">{{cite journal \|title="Psychic surgery" \|journal=CA: a cancer journal for clinicians \|volume=40 \|issue=3 \|pages=184-8 \|date=1990 \| url=http://caonline.amcancersoc.org/cgi/reprint/40/3/184 \| pmid=2110023 \| accessdate=2007-08-19 }}</ref>. It has been denounced by the ] ] as a "total hoax",<ref name=FTC1 /> and the ] maintains that psychic surgery may cause needless death by keeping the ill away from life-saving medical care.<ref name="pmid2110023" /> Medical professionals and skeptics say that ] can best explain psychic surgery.<ref>{{cite book\| last = Randi \| first = James \| authorlink = James Randi \| year = 1989 \| title = ] \| publisher = Prometheus Books \| id = ISBN 0-87975-535-0 }}</ref><ref> David Vernon in ''Skeptical - a Handbook of Pseudoscience and the Paranormal'', ed ], ], ], ], Imagecraft, Canberra, 1989, ISBN 0731657942, p47</ref>
	\|}
	----
	How about that? No paranormal, and I don't think we need the painless. ] <small>]</small> 06:35, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

	:Cool. –––''']''' <sub>(] Ψ ])</sub> 06:38, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

	::Any objections to this version? ] <small>]</small> 17:06, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

	:::Minor ones that don't mean much and would require more explanation than they're worth. --''']''' <sup>(])</sup> 18:36, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

	{{take note}} - I'm going to unprotect the article now, per request on my talk page. Any objections, seeing as you guys all seem reasonably happy with Option V here? - ] ] 08:32, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

	::I think if it's unprotected then an edit war is bound to ensue. I wouldn't oppose unprotecting it to see what happens but I'm pretty sure that's what would happen. I guess we'll have to see. So you can unprotect it now and hope for the best. ] <sup>]</sup> 14:57, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
	:::If anyone waits this long without disagreeing and then starts edit warring, that's just trolling. –––''']'''</span><sub> (] Ψ ])</sub> 19:57, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
	:::::Someone will find someone else to disagree with. Contention pops up out of nowhere. ] <sup>]</sup> 23:12, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

	: I'm unprotecting now. If the war re-starts, prot is going back on in a hurry & you guys will have to take it to MEDCOM or something. Make the best of it :) - ] ] 23:51, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

	==Consensus lead==
	I've put the new consensus version lead into place. The article needs work, but I sincerely hope everyone involved will talk it out here on the discussion page before making any major changes to the article. Please no further edit warring, we'll just end up here again with a protected page and egg on our collective faces...;)

	I want to thank everyone involved for helping to bring this to a consensus and getting the article unprotected. Let's keep it that way! ] <small>]</small> 01:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

	==New work==

			I'd say that stating he declared he was cured without a citation should be removed. If he stated it there has to be a source somewhere. If he didn't say it then the statement should be removed. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:35, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	Suggest taking out everything which currently has citation requests on it, and adding things in only with citation. –––''']'''</span><sub> (] Ψ ])</sub> 01:46, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

			: ¡Oh yeah! Kaughman has perfect health now. If it would not have worked, he would have died from cancer, but his running and winning marathons all over the world proves that psychic surgery cured him. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 01:03, 24 October 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:I removed most of the uncited content and tried to find suitable sources for the rest. That's about all I care to do with it, hopefully some of the other editors who were previously engaged in the article can make further improvements. ] <small>]</small> 06:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

	== ~~Changes~~ to ~~page structure~~ ==		== External links modified ==

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	While I have modified the structure, of the page, as per the above I have not added or deleted any actual content, only reordered it.

			I have just modified {{plural:1\|one external link\|1 external links}} on ]. Please take a moment to review . If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
	There changes were made in order to bring this page into line with standard section ordering. Lit: an entry should introduce the topic, define the topic, discuss the history of a topic, then introduce dissenting ideas and concepts. As was, the entry discussed criticism of the topic before history of the topic. This is academically incorrect on the grounds that the reader should be informed of the different facets of the topic in a pure form before they are introduced to conflicting ideologies. For example, it would be wrong to launch into a criticism of Communism before the reader knew what Communism was or why it came into being.
			*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/Arigo,%20Jose.html

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	] 07:09, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
	:You changes grossly violate undue weight and are just going to get the page locked again. For god sake. IT"S FRAUD. <b><font face="courier" color="#737CA1">]</font></b> <small><b><font color="#C11B17">(])</font></b></small> 07:25, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

			{{sourcecheck\|checked=false}}
	::My changes REMOVED NO CONTENT, I merely changed the structure to reflect the academically correct layout in which discussion follows definition. - ] 10:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

			Cheers.—]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">]:Online</sub></small> 10:59, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
	::Please calm down Ornis. I agree that major changes to this contentious article should be discussed before implementing, even structural changes. One of the primary concerns with this particular subject is that it has been strongly identified as fraud, so certain adjustments must be made to accomodate this. Perfectblue was just ], she was not engaged in the previous edit war, and her reasoning for the changes was sound, so give her a break.

			==Psychic surgery, a pseudoscience constituting medical fraud==
	::And Ornis, it takes ''two'' to edit war and get the article locked, or possibly get one or more editors blocked - so I suggest that none of you revert, but instead discuss here on the talk page to find consensus. ] is clear, rather than reverting multiple times, discuss the matter with other editors. ] <small>]</small> 08:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
			I've been to a psychic surgeon, and he helped me a lot with my back. Helped my wife even more.
			Then, reading the start of this article.. :)
			What to say. ] (]) 19:26, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
			:If you think it's biased you're welcome to modify the start of the article, provided you cite ]. ] (]) 14:06, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

			== External links modified ==
	:::In order to gain credibility it is very important that a correct section structure is followed. Let me give you an example. Suppose I were to write a detailed account of WWII, under your structure I'd start with the introduction and then move straight on to criticism of the firebombing of Tokyo and the riots in Shanghai over the Japanese war shrine in 2005, but would leave the bit about Pearl Harbor to the end. - ] 10:00, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

			Hello fellow Wikipedians,
	== Seems a good page ==

			I have just modified one external link on ]. Please take a moment to review ]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
	I just added "apparent" to the removal of pathological samples as are not really pathological samples. I also changed some wording position by the sake of style.
			*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070202112741/http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/PPI/UnconventionalTherapies/PsychicSurgery.htm to http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/PPI/UnconventionalTherapies/PsychicSurgery.htm

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	I changed fraud by "claims of Fraud" because the guy is a magician, not a law enforcement agency or a tribunal.

			{{sourcecheck\|checked=false\|needhelp=}}
	It seems to be missing an explanation that in Brazil are two currents, that of the kardecists which works with tools and try to approach more real surgery and that of Umbanda "curandeiros" who work just with hands.

			Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 07:00, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
	It also should be a citation where says that originated in Phil and Braz.

			== Death ==
	Seems that for a neutral article is missing the voice of the "cured" ones which can be related with some placebo explanations.

			The actor Peter Sellers died after going to one in the Philippines.
	These are all minor, the article is a far cry from the original and it looks like an article. <font color="00A813">]</font><sup><font color="00551BB3">]</font></sup> 12:18, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
		⚫	Should add to article.

⚫	== ~~Not~~ an article ==

			~~Bill~~ ] (]) 00:04, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
	Yes I agree, seems a good page, however not an article, it needs working in style, grammar and structure. Any volunteers ? ] 16:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

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Kaufman

I'd say that stating he declared he was cured without a citation should be removed. If he stated it there has to be a source somewhere. If he didn't say it then the statement should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.155.48.112 (talk) 05:35, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

¡Oh yeah! Kaughman has perfect health now. If it would not have worked, he would have died from cancer, but his running and winning marathons all over the world proves that psychic surgery cured him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.233.65 (talk) 01:03, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

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Psychic surgery, a pseudoscience constituting medical fraud

I've been to a psychic surgeon, and he helped me a lot with my back. Helped my wife even more. Then, reading the start of this article.. :) What to say. Gsoler (talk) 19:26, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

If you think it's biased you're welcome to modify the start of the article, provided you cite reliable sources. Uanfala (talk) 14:06, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070202112741/http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/PPI/UnconventionalTherapies/PsychicSurgery.htm to http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/PPI/UnconventionalTherapies/PsychicSurgery.htm

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Death

The actor Peter Sellers died after going to one in the Philippines. Should add to article.

~~Bill~~ 2607:FEA8:4A2:4100:E4D8:1994:2E91:D60 (talk) 00:04, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

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