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Revision as of 02:01, 22 September 2007 editHal Cross (talk | contribs)1,042 edits restoring discussion that was dismissed by CMMK and Orpheus← Previous edit Latest revision as of 12:28, 31 January 2024 edit undoAlwaysgonnaedit (talk | contribs)30 editsm fixed minor typo 
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] This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available ]. Student editor(s): ].

{{small|Above undated message substituted from ] by ] (]) 14:01, 16 January 2022 (UTC)}}
== Paleoconservative how? ==

They just seem like an especially hard-line American Christian right group not particularly invested in foreign policy, immigration or trade. It doesn't seem like AFA has said anything critical of neoconservatives, their leadership probably supported Bush when he was president. I do not see how they would be classified as paleoconservative. What is the rationale? ] (]) 00:41, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

== Christian fundamentalist or Protestant fundamentalist? ==


The lead of this article calls them a "Protestant fundamentalist" group, but the ideology they push isn't specific to Protestantism. ] (]) 23:26, 13 September 2022 (UTC)


== SPLC ==
==Removal of AFA views from the article==


I realized I've now twice reverted removal from the lead of the SPLC designation of AFA as a hate group. {{yo|Sebastienostertag}} can you explain further why you think it should be removed? Anyone else care to weigh in? ] (] / ]) 03:16, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Orpheus, I refer to this link that was just archived by CMMK . You two have not been explaining over and over, you have been repeatedly dismissing sourced views. The "not a press release, detailed directory" objection simply doesn't hold. There is no policy on those points, and concisely presented sourced views do not apply. Summary style is WP style. I have explained that the important parts of what you keep deleting are simply deleted from the article. So the views are being suppressed. Two editors repeatedly deleting and dismissing reliable sources and discussion does not mean consensus. I am totally willing to apply for outside input on this matter and therefore I am totally willing to listen to Misplaced Pages community input. You can keep trying to dismiss my comments if you like, but its not going to stop me from applying Misplaced Pages policies to the article. ] 02:01, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
: The section Criticisms and Controversy already explains the SPlC designation in detail. Having it in the introduction makes it seem that the SPLC though is a credible organization. Theyve put Christian Jewish and Muslim groups in the same category as the KKK and Neo Nazis. They have been sued many times for defamation. ] (]) 03:19, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
: Citing the SPLC as credible is like citing Donald Trump on the Central Park 5 ] (]) 03:23, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
:: The independent, secondary sources that cite the SPLC do seem to view it as a credible organization. Unless that changes, I think it's reasonable for us to so as well. I disagree with your characterization of the SPLC's actions, and your analogy to DT, but I doubt it would be productive to debate those matters here. ] (] / ]) 03:29, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
::: Their designation of the Family Research Council as a hate group, which they aren't, led to an individual going and shooting the security guard. They have been sued and are still being sued. Having them in the introduction makes it seem as though they are unbiased. ] (]) 03:31, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
:::: Having been sued is not a factor here, and neither is the FRC attack. I don't think that placement in the intro makes them seem unbiased, and we've attributed their view specifically because SPLC is a biased source. ] (] / ]) 03:35, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
::::: Then I'll add a counter paragraph after that then. ] (]) 03:37, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
:::::: Please make sure to cite reliable sources that are on-topic for this article. Also, please ] your talk page posts. ] (] / ]) 03:38, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
:::::::{{yo| Sebastienostertag}} you added unsourced content to the article. Please self-revert. ] (] / ]) 04:00, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
::::::::@] in any case, the editor is topic banned and should not be posting here. ] ] 18:33, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
::::::::: The SPLC is a notable and respected organization and the SPLC’s designation of the AFA as a hate group is also notable. A mention in the lead is not undue.-] (]) 09:35, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
::::If the fact that the SPLC labelled the AFA as a hate group constitutes stochastic terrorism, as a terrorist attacked the AFA's headquarters afterwards, don't you think that the moral outrage against LGBT people sparked by organisations as AFA also constitutes stochastic terrorism, due to ]?
::::If you want to opine on this article that the SPLC is responsible for the attack against the AFA for this attack because they said the AFA was a hate group, then we would have to revise all US anti-LGBT groups' wiki articles to add all the anti-LGBT acts of violence and terrorism in the US that had ties with these groups.
::::Also note that we need ], and to maintain ] and ] on this article, to report on this, if you wish to further this endeavour. ] (]) 12:27, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 14:01, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Paleoconservative how?

They just seem like an especially hard-line American Christian right group not particularly invested in foreign policy, immigration or trade. It doesn't seem like AFA has said anything critical of neoconservatives, their leadership probably supported Bush when he was president. I do not see how they would be classified as paleoconservative. What is the rationale? J390 (talk) 00:41, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Christian fundamentalist or Protestant fundamentalist?

The lead of this article calls them a "Protestant fundamentalist" group, but the ideology they push isn't specific to Protestantism. Partofthemachine (talk) 23:26, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

SPLC

I realized I've now twice reverted removal from the lead of the SPLC designation of AFA as a hate group. @Sebastienostertag: can you explain further why you think it should be removed? Anyone else care to weigh in? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:16, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

The section Criticisms and Controversy already explains the SPlC designation in detail. Having it in the introduction makes it seem that the SPLC though is a credible organization. Theyve put Christian Jewish and Muslim groups in the same category as the KKK and Neo Nazis. They have been sued many times for defamation. Sebastienostertag (talk) 03:19, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Citing the SPLC as credible is like citing Donald Trump on the Central Park 5 Sebastienostertag (talk) 03:23, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
The independent, secondary sources that cite the SPLC do seem to view it as a credible organization. Unless that changes, I think it's reasonable for us to so as well. I disagree with your characterization of the SPLC's actions, and your analogy to DT, but I doubt it would be productive to debate those matters here. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:29, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Their designation of the Family Research Council as a hate group, which they aren't, led to an individual going and shooting the security guard. They have been sued and are still being sued. Having them in the introduction makes it seem as though they are unbiased. Sebastienostertag (talk) 03:31, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Having been sued is not a factor here, and neither is the FRC attack. I don't think that placement in the intro makes them seem unbiased, and we've attributed their view specifically because SPLC is a biased source. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:35, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Then I'll add a counter paragraph after that then. Sebastienostertag (talk) 03:37, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
Please make sure to cite reliable sources that are on-topic for this article. Also, please WP:INDENT your talk page posts. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:38, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
@Sebastienostertag: you added unsourced content to the article. Please self-revert. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 04:00, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
@Firefangledfeathers in any case, the editor is topic banned and should not be posting here. Doug Weller talk 18:33, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
The SPLC is a notable and respected organization and the SPLC’s designation of the AFA as a hate group is also notable. A mention in the lead is not undue.-TenorTwelve (talk) 09:35, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
If the fact that the SPLC labelled the AFA as a hate group constitutes stochastic terrorism, as a terrorist attacked the AFA's headquarters afterwards, don't you think that the moral outrage against LGBT people sparked by organisations as AFA also constitutes stochastic terrorism, due to the multitude of violent and terrorist acts committed against LGBT people in recent years?
If you want to opine on this article that the SPLC is responsible for the attack against the AFA for this attack because they said the AFA was a hate group, then we would have to revise all US anti-LGBT groups' wiki articles to add all the anti-LGBT acts of violence and terrorism in the US that had ties with these groups.
Also note that we need reliable sources, and to maintain with due weight and balance on this article, to report on this, if you wish to further this endeavour. Alwaysgonnaedit (talk) 12:27, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
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