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| <center><br><div style="align: center; width: 60%; padding: 1em; border: solid 2px gold; background-color: black;"> | |||
| ==Mediation Cabal== | |||
| '''<font color="white">R E T I R E D</font>''' | |||
| I am starting to mediate a case with the Mediation Cabal which you are involved in. Please see ]. Thanks! ''Your mediator,'' <font face="Lucida Calligraphy"><b>]</b></font> <sup>(] <small>•</small> ])</sup> 00:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC) | |||
| <font color="white"><center>'''This user left Misplaced Pages permanently on 28 Feb 2008.'''</font color></center> | |||
| :Please follow discussion at ] if you still wish to be involved in this case. Please let us know if you do not wish to be involved. ''Your mediator,'' <font face="Lucida Calligraphy"><b>]</b></font> <sup>(] <small>•</small> ])</sup> 19:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC) | |||
| </div><br></center> | |||
| {{archive box|<center>]</center>}} | |||
| == FA Candidacy for ] == | |||
| == Welcome back! == | |||
| There was a response posted to your opposition to the FA candidacy of the article ]. The response was posted on 21 July, by ]. It would be appreciated if you answered the ]. Thanks in advance for your timeliness. -- ''Steven Williamson (])'' - ] 13:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Welcome back, I hope you still like Misplaced Pages after being temporarily blocked. ]] 22:19, 22 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| *I don't think it is necessary, isn't it? ] 23:36, 26 July 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Blocked? when? ] (]) 23:04, 22 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == IQ of Australia. == | |||
| :: Opps, how come your archive links to the article's talk page archive? I'm going to fix it for you, ok? ]] 03:38, 23 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| In the Article ''IQ and the Wealth of Nations'' you have stated that the IQ of Australia is 96. According to Lynn and Vanhanen it is "98" http://www.rlynn.co.uk/pages/article_intelligence/t4.asp | |||
| :::OK! ] (]) 04:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| Can you be so kind to change the table "National IQ Estimates" so that the IQ of Australia is 98. | |||
| == Re: Indonesian Chinese == | |||
| Yours Sincerely | |||
| James <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 10:21, August 29, 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| Did you see the reference tag placed behind that sentence? Ya, these are called references and they provide a fact whether you like it or not. And you can't accuse someone having sockpuppet or meatpuppet unless you give concrete proof (such as wording, spelling mistake, identical phrases) ]] 16:36, 26 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ==Portugal-related Templates== | |||
| :I didn't object nor remove the tag they provided. What I objected is they keep reverting what I edited over there. What I edited didn't make a conflict with the reference they provided. ] (]) 16:43, 26 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| Hi, Coloane | |||
| :I would like you to check their edit histories (i.e. ] and ]) carefully and see if there are any identical phrases, words, etc. I highly suspect meatpuppet can be established. They always join hand in hand and edit all Indonesian articles and revert all those who are not from their ideas. ] (]) 16:50, 26 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| About the Templates i'm sorry but i only partially agree with you. | |||
| The CPLP template may be a little excessive given that Macau is not a member nor an observer. But about the Portuguese overseas empire template i think you're wrong. That's an history template and it was on the right section. That template was made for being put on former Portuguese territories. It's pretty much on every former territory, some not so important. Being Macau one of the most important i don't see why the exception. I put the Template:Portuguese overseas empire back in the article. | |||
| :: You can try ] if you have strong evidence (e.g. provide evidences such as exact wordings/identical phrases with diffs). But that's only if you're confident if it's sockpuppet. If it's meatpuppet, nothing we (or checkusers) can do because they're editing from 2 different IPs. Right now, I would suggest you to take a break from editing that article. Right now you are alone in this issue and your record counts against you. If Caniago and Merbabu's behaviour continues and someone else thinks it's disruptive, they will file an report and you may provide your evidence at the same time. So in short, '''take a break''', ok? ]] 16:59, 26 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| Cordially, ] ] 00:06, 18 October 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Yeah, sure thing! Due to my heavy job here, would you please help me to check their histories and est if they are qualified as meatpuppet (most likely) or sockpuppet (most likely not, but still there are little chances). Regards! ] (]) 17:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| Excuse me, but you can put such a template in the article of ]. This is not a situable template as nowadays ] is currently '''NOT''' a colony under the ] anymore. Otherwise why not put the template of ] under the article of ]?? ] 02:09, 18 October 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::: And don't do anything controversial. ]] 17:12, 26 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Re: ]'s Topic ban issue == | |||
| :To have a central discussion, please discuss here: ] — ] (]) — 08:26, 18 October 2007 (UTC) | |||
| Dear ], ], ], and ]: | |||
| == ] == | |||
| I know this notice is going to be long and involves a bit of philosophical thinking, so TRY reading it at least twice before replying. I would like to point out a few things: | |||
| Hi Coloane, wouldn't it have been better to put the your suggestion (that the history section needs to be summarised), in a "Comment" rather than going straight to "Oppose"? If I summarise the history section will you change to "Support"?--] 08:21, 5 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| # Coloane's topic ban is very straight and simple. No nomination/review in GA and FA (as confirmed by community). It is suggested by Orderinchaos that this ban is extended to FT, FL, FP, FPORT, and FS (this requires community confirmation). However, Indonesian Chinese article is not in any of the aforementioned processes at the moment and I see Merbabu and Caniago are trying to discredit Coloane using the topic ban reason. This is nothing but ]. | |||
| == ] == | |||
| # Calling someone as sockpuppet/meatpuppet without concrete evidence is against AGF. BUT dealing with "uncivil" editors does not immediately grant you rights to be uncivil and not AGF. | |||
| # I am completely uninvolved regarding the topic ban issue or the ] article. It's unfair for me to be dragged in, when I have to go through hundreds of diffs in the article as well evidences presented by different parties. | |||
| My recommendation to all parties is to move this discussion from my talk page to ], which is the talk page of the article you guys are disputing on. Try drop your conflicts that you had with other people and work as a team. Think about it. Had the person who reverted is not the person you had conflict with, would you want to stir up so much trouble just to win an argument? If things doesn't work out at the end, then we have no choice but to send it to ]. | |||
| I have responded to your concerns on the ] for the ]. I hope you don't mind my quick response here, it is just that the nomination has been restarted once, and i am keen to avoid it failing due to time constraints. Thankyou. ] 21:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| This notice has been copied exactly to all 4 people addressed in the first line. | |||
| == Russia energy superpower == | |||
| ]] 03:46, 27 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :As a matter of fact, the consensus of so-called topic ban on ANI has not been made as the ] hijacked and terminated the discussion and proposal unmaturely. The ridiculous reason he gave was that he might see I may have more supporters after the question(s) asking by the ]. I never heard about this reason before. For the matter of sockpuppet/meatpuppet, I didn't formally accuse of the ] and ] being as sockpuppets/meatpuppets. I only suspected the likelihood of being meatpuppet could be well-established. That is why I discussed this matter with you personally. I didn't expect that they intruded my personal discussion with you and wrote down nonsense (i.e.topic ban which is completely unrelated to the issue I discussed with you) on your talk page. I think they are smart enough to know it is a straw man argument. The main purpose for them to write down this nonsense is to distract my discussion of meatpuppet with you. ] (]) 04:45, 27 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| Did you even read the ] article?--] 03:07, 11 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==other comments== | |||
| :I think this article is pretty controversial. Yes, I've read this article that you above mentioned.] 05:35, 11 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| I don't understand why the table should be listed alphabetically. If the table is listed under the "'''list of countries with RANKINGS'''" (see the title of table below), it should be listed as a top down ranking with the highest GDP PPP per capita listing first. Other lists of countries like ], ], ], to name a few, are not listed alphabetically just like this article. Why they are excluded?? any reason for this?? if not, then would you consider this table as an(or your) original research (please refer to ]) since this table was not specifically followed exactly what the sources provided like CIA or IMF? ] (]) 18:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Russia FAC == | |||
| :As you correctly indicated, your comment is really not suitable where you've put it, so I've put it here, and have replied here. | |||
| ''"After the breakup of the Soviet Union, the newly-independent Russian Federation emerged as a great powerand is also considered to be an energy superpower. are you sure? the great depreciation of rouble; great cut in military part, relatively high rate of inflation after the breakup of the Soviet Union didn't make me believe it is/was a great power."'' | |||
| :*As to the alphabetical question: a). This is not me who decided to sort it alphabetically. b). see the ''note'' (in italics) above the table. c). We have '''one unified''' table (including different lists of different bodies) - rather than 4 different tables, so the table can be sorted alphabetically only. If not alphabetically - then how can one sort it according to ranking? whose ranking? CIA ranking? IMF ranking? WB ranking? c). However, your question is answered on the article itself: see the ''note'' (in italics) above the table. Anyway, I highly recommend that you ask the person who decided to sort it alphabetically. | |||
| Russia was considered a great power because it retained many "superpower" aspects from the days of the ] (power is not solely measured on economic terms). For example: | |||
| :*As to the World Bank list: a) This is not me who added the WB list. b). Per capita values were obtained by dividing the by the . Anyway, I highly recommend that you ask the person who decided to add the WB list. | |||
| :] (]) 08:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ::Is that possible for you to restore the list which was ranked with the highest GDP PPP per capita listing first? ] (]) 15:55, 27 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| *Russia covers the largest territory in the world with an abundance of natural resources (]) | |||
| *Still had the largest number of nuclear weapons in the world | |||
| *Retained huge and arguably the most powerful military after the US. Retained huge military indusrial complex and huge amounts of military hardware | |||
| *Retained a significant amount of cultural influence over former ] states | |||
| *Retained a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. | |||
| *Maintained, along with the US the most advanced space program | |||
| ::: which sorted the countries according to ranking. ] (]) 16:57, 27 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ''"The primary causes of Russia's population decrease are a high death rate and low birth rate.(i.e. misleading) well, maybe! but who knows? tons of Russian every year were moved to the United States, Canada, the UK (mostly for wealthy Russian) and Australia for good, to name a few. Why didn't you mention them?"'' | |||
| ::::Thanks for your searching. I prefer this version. Would you please restore this version after the process of mediation? ] (]) 17:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| After the Soviet collapse millions of people immigrated into Russia from ex-Soviet states, by far exceeding ]. | |||
| :::::Remind me then. ] (]) 18:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ''"The history section needs to write a bit shorter. It's too long indeed!!!"'' | |||
| == Personal attacks == | |||
| As you can see Russia's history (mostly the Soviet period) is often controversial, and there is only so much material that can be trimmed down without having to compromise the article's quality.--] 06:28, 11 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ] Please see Misplaced Pages's ] policy. Comment on ''content'', not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to ] for disruption. Please ] and keep this in mind while editing. <!-- Template:uw-npa2 --> I draw your attention specifically to the following: ''some types of comments are never acceptable: racial...epithets directed against another contributor'' and ''insulting or disparaging an editor is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done.'' ] 01:15, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| : I think it is much better for you to depict Russia as a regional power rather than a great power. I know Russia got its legacy and retained formidable weapon from the USSR, however they are mostly outdated and not ready yet to fight and defense. I know Russia is a member of UN Security Council or G8, however Russia didn't play a vital role compare to other countries or members. It is just a symbolic figure/showcase indeed. Economic factor is still a very significant one to consider nowadays, in the period of Boris Yeltsin, it was just a mess. I think the causes of changing of population in Russia is multifactorial. To attribute to the main causes of decreasing of population in terms of high death rate and low birth rate in Russia is not that convincing indeed. Regards ] 06:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == February 2008 == | |||
| ::''"however they are mostly outdated"'' - They were not outdated just fall the fall of the Soviet Union. Indeed, many weapons are still top of the line. I was under the impression that we were talking about Russia right after the fall of the Soviet Union because today it is unquestionably a great power. Read the Armed Forces section which details the significant rises in military spending and the $200 billion (what equals to about $400 billion in PPP dollars) Russia is in the middle of spending on development and production of military equipment between 2006–2015. ''" however Russia didn't play a vital role compare to other countries or members. It is just a symbolic figure/showcase indeed."'' - what do you base this off? Do you mean to say that France or the UK or China played more of a 'vital role' than Russia after the fall Soviet Union? Please. All the 5 members of the UN Security Council have equal power there, including the right to veto. Today Russia often dictates the course of international affairs (see Kosovo). ''"I think the causes of changing of population in Russia is multifactorial. To attribute to the main causes of decreasing of population in terms of high death rate and low birth rate in Russia is not that convincing indeed."'' - I don't think you understand. The population decrease IS due to a high death rate and low birth rate. That is how a country's population increases/decreases, by the amount of people that die, compared to the amount of people that are born, +/- immigration (which as I've pointed out, ] from Russia is not a problem). The REASONS for the high death rate (alcohol, lack of quality healthcare, etc) are discussed in the article.--] 09:27, 11 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ] This is the '''last warning''' you will receive for your disruptive comments. <br> If you continue to make personal attacks on other people{{#if:User:Orderinchaos| as you did towards ]}}, you '''will''' be ] for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|}}<!-- Template:uw-npa4 --> ''disparaging comments including race, education and similar - as explained above - are never accepted. '''I ask that you please be kind enough to show us your good manners and apologise to the editor involved as soon as possible''''' --] <sup>]</sup> 01:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| This matter I already sent to Jimbo Wales. ] (]) 01:56, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ::: I think for the space program that you mentioned, there are also many other small countries taking part in it. It doesn't mean Russia is a great power by giving this reason. Compare to the US, spending simply $200 billion in military is just a tip of iceberg. For the Security Council, US play the most significant role indeed. I know Russia is a member but compare to the role of USSR, is dramatically diminished. If you compare to the figures of the company ]'s worth (i.e. 1 trillion); it is almost equal to the figure of the GDP of Russia. Obviously Russia is not a great power, at least not an economic power in our global sense. Economic factor is an overridding one to consider without question nowadays. But I don't object that you write down Russia as a '''regional power''' in the CIS or Central Asia. ] 17:31, 11 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Jimbo is not going to intervene for you. You need to stop making attacks against Orderinchaos immediately or you will be blocked. Orderinchaos is not bothering you, he was asked to comment on your community ban and he did so; leave it be. ] <sup>]</sup> 01:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Why are you comparing everything to the US, we have achknowledged that Russia is no longer a ]. PS the value of a company does not count towards the GDP of a country, why did you bring that up, just becuse ] has a market capitalization of $1 trillion does not mean that it contributes $1 trillion to China's GDP (PS Russia's GDP is $1.7 trillion not $1 trillion). Russia/US do still have by far the most advanced space programs. 40 years later they are still the only countries that can launch people into space (China launched a man in space only recently and won't catch up anytime soon).''"For the Security Council, US play the most significant role indeed."'' - can you give examples of this? Once again, you are comparing Russia to a superpower, not a great power. You need to study the concept of great power because power is not measured simply by economic power, otherwise Japan would be a great power. The superpower article describes the characteristics of power . Power is measured by political (NOTE: a great power does not have to satisfy these categories as strictly as a superpower - Russia has permanent seat on UN security council), geographic (largest country in the world, enormous resource, ], cultural (still influences ex-Soviet states), military (largest nuclear weapons stockpile in the world, the ability to develop advanced military technologies like the ] and ] ICBMs, the ] fifth generation fighter jet, ] and ] tanks, ],), economic (8th largest economy in the world, will overtake France and the UK within a year or two, averaging 6.7% GDP growth for the last 8 years), demographic (9th largest population in the world, by far the most populous european country).--] 01:04, 12 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::So let Jimbo make his own comment, you can't speak on behalf of him, am I right? ] (]) 01:59, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :::::You are not completely wrong, however; some points are pretty doubtful. For the population, although it is the 9th largest no. in the world and by far the most populous in Europe, it will not last long because the population of Russia is diminishing very quickly due to the high death rate and the low birth rate('''this is even what you mentioned'''). And I am personally sure that Russia will disintegrate more in future because that country is simply a federation. For the economic aspect, the GDP of Russia have risen a little bit due to mainly the oil export, but nothing else. If you look at the ] carefully, Russia performed not very well, it is even worse than South Africa. What the weapon that you suggested above mentioned are mostly in process and it is still a question whether it will eventually lead to a mass production. For ], the net worth of that company is 1 trillion. But if you look at the nominal GDP of Russia, it is lower than this figure. What you mentioned China can't catch up the space technology, it is totally groundless. Many people in the world now recognised that China already took over the role of Russia and Soviet Union, long time ago. ] 01:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::No, not really. This is not a subjective matter. You cannot attack other editors, no matter what justification you may feel you have. Please see ]. ''']''' '']'' 02:02, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| PS:I will change to "weak support" in case some words in the section of history will be erased. Again, I think that the section of history is too long. It is much better for you to put some details in the article of History of Russia. ] 02:44, 12 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::*I note your message regarding Jimbo - and concur with Shell Kinney. I am more than happy for you to wait until Jimbo replies to you but in the meantime I have asked you to show the wikipedia community that you are able to apologise directly to Orderinchaos and I will be interested to see if you are able to bring yourself to achieving that request?--] <sup>]</sup> 02:03, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ::The demographic problem is very bad, but serious population decline takes decades, and that is if the rate of decline stays the same for each year. Forecasts about Russia's population by 2050 are meaningless because they rely the rate of decline will stay the same. Signs of improvement are showing. The number of childbirths increased 6.5 percent in the first half of 2007, while the number of deaths fell the same 6.5 percent.<ref name=ros> RosBusinessConsulting</ref> As Russia becomes more prosperous it is natural that the death rate will decline and the birth rate will increase. ''"And I am personally sure that Russia will disintegrate more in future because that country is simply a federation."'' - MANY countries are federations including the USA, Australia, India, Brazil, Canada, etc . Besides, hell will sooner freeze over before Russia gives up any of her territory. ''"For the economic aspect, the GDP of Russia have risen a little bit due to mainly the oil export, but nothing else. "'' - a common misconception. Oil was initially the reason for Russia's economic resurgence but since around about 2003 economic growth has been driven by other factors - ''"Although high oil prices and a relatively cheap ruble initially drove this growth, since 2003 consumer demand and, more recently, investment have played a significant role."'' - source: the ]. I will list some statistics - In January-June 2007, foreign investment in the Russian economy doubled year-on-year, reaching $60.3 billion.<ref> Russian News & Information Agency</ref> In 2000 total investment in fixed assets was $40 billion, giving growth of 300% by 2006.<ref name=fixedassets></ref> Total investment in Russia's economy in 2010 will reach $360 billion, 800% growth since 2000, a Russian deputy prime minister forecast.<ref> Russian News & Information Agency</ref> Investment in Russia's ] are expected to double on 2006 figures by 2010 and reach $370 billion in line with a conservative forecast.<ref name=fixedassets/> In 2000 total investment in fixed assets was $40 billion, giving growth of 300% by 2006.<ref name=fixedassets></ref> The middle class has grown from just 8 million in 2000 to 55 million in 2006, estimates Expert, a market research firm in Moscow.<ref> businessweek.com</ref> Russia's GDP this year will rise by at least 7%. ''"But if you look at the nominal GDP of Russia, it is lower than this figure."'' - PPP is the preferred method of measuring the real size of an economy as it is based on the ], where identical goods are given one price. The nominal method only converts currency, and currency itself is worthless. It is the tangible amount a country produces that gives a real measure of the size of an economy. China's GDP by nominal measurement is only $2.68 trillion, but its GDP by PPP is $10 trillion.--] 09:31, 12 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::You all don't understand! I am not talking about personal attacks. I am talking about: hijacking the discussion and disturbing my discussion with OhanaUnited. There is no format of apology and, apology has been made. Check the talk page of OhanaUnited. ] (]) 02:04, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| Just letting you know that I decided to remove "Russia is a great power" altogether, let the readers decide for themselves.--] 02:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I think that you had better solve the problem of your info box and the section of history. It appears a large part of blank area. The layout need to be fixed as soon as possible. ] 03:40, 14 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::OhanaUnited asked Orderinchaos about the topic ban - this is the only reason he commented. Orderinchaos was not hijacking or disturbing your discussion. Your "apology" on OhanaUnited's talk page included another attack on Orderinchaos; it would probably be best if you sincerely apologized and ceased any form of attack on other Misplaced Pages contributors. ] <sup>]</sup> 02:12, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ::The history section has been further summarised.--] (]) 04:59, 19 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::Can you show me where did you summarise by the way? anyway! your effort for improving the article of Russia is great!!! ] (]) 06:12, 19 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Slip sliding around is not going to assist you to show the community that you are prepared to change your ways. You have been particularly offensive to Orderinchaos and you have been asked to apologise personally to him. Whether you do or not will give everyone else watching an understanding of the type of editor you are - my point is to try to get you to understand the importance of a '''sincere apology''' - and not the off-handed comment you made at OhanaUnited. How you do or don't put that apology will speak to us very clearly. Would you care to consider my request?--] <sup>]</sup> 02:13, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ] has been copyediting the article and the article size has been reduced from 115 kilobytes to 99 kilobytes. The history section has been reduced by about 25% from 4,400 words to 3,300 words and the prose has been improved.--] (]) 10:30, 21 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::::::well, believe me or not, I don't know what do you mean by sincere apology. If you want, you can give me a format and let me fill and sign, what do you think? ] (]) 02:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ::Oh! I didn't check the article size. Thanks for your reminding. 99kbs is still a big article, I think. You do need to cut more and put some unnecessary details to other articles. For this theme, it is only an introduction of Russia, isn't it? This article will be edited by somebody else in future and surely it will be over 100kbs shortly. | |||
| No Coloane if you don't know how to say sorry to a fellow editor or human being there is not much I can do to help you now. Thank you. Please note the warning will remain in effect and blocking will occur if you re-offend.--] <sup>]</sup> 02:27, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| A rule of thumb | |||
| Some useful rules of thumb for splitting articles, and combining small pages (see above for what to exclude in size calculations): | |||
| ::yeah, I already read your warning message (actually two warnings gave me together immediately). Regards! ] (]) 02:31, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| '''Prose size | |||
| What to do | |||
| * > 100 KB Almost certainly should be divided up | |||
| * > 60 KB Probably should be divided (although the scope of a topic can sometimes justify the added reading time) | |||
| * > 40 KB May eventually need to be divided (likelihood goes up with size) | |||
| * < 30 KB Length alone does not justify division | |||
| * < 1 KB If an article or list has remained this size for over a couple of months, consider combining it with a related page. Alternatively, why not fix it by adding more info? See Misplaced Pages:Stub. If it's an important article that's just too short, put it under Article Creation and Improvement Drive, a project to improve stubs or nonexistent articles.''' | |||
| Your latest question on my talk page refers. My answer is: | |||
| ::can't you give me some links to refer to so that I can take a look if the section of history has been reduced? but if you have some problems to send me this, it doesn't matter actually. Even I change my vote to support, it won't help much because it seems to me that this article will be failed to become a FA definitely. ] (]) 23:26, 21 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| *Would you be happy with such an apology if I commented on your education and racial background in disparaging terms? | |||
| *Would you be happy if I put that apology on another person's page or would you think me more polite and courageous if I put it on your page? --] <sup>]</sup> 02:53, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :well, I think Orderinchaos will keep very close eye on my edit history and I am sure he already read my message of apology, no matter where I put, am I right? ] (]) 03:04, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ==Hi== | |||
| == Retirement == | |||
| Hi! Your continuous efforts to perfectly improve the articles ] and ] - are important and remarkable! Thank you a lot for all of your contributions there! | |||
| ] 08:57, 14 November 2007 (UTC) | |||
| If you left permanently in January, then this latest controversy would not have happened. ''']''' '']'' 15:41, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Belarus FAC == | |||
| :With the increasing groundswell of hostility he has created so far in the community, it's just a matter of time before he is being blocked indefinitely or faced a permanent community ban ultimately. No doubt about that. I had a good laugh when I stumbled upon his recent postings at ]. I almost fell off from my chair, especially by the closing remarks made by daveh4h. That was a classic! -- ] (]) 17:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| I answered your objections and questions. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 03:53, 4 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Dear IP from Singapore, if you fall off from your chair, please fall off somewhere else. I am not sure if you are ] or his other followers, but please refrain from making unconstructive and provokable comments here on my talk page. I am still actively appearing in French Misplaced Pages and thus I check this talk page from time to time. ] (]) 19:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Delisting == | |||
| :::If you are still writing you are not retired. Can you please change your retired notice to reflect today's date of February 28, 2008?--] <sup>]</sup> 22:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| *Change noted - thank you.--] <sup>]</sup> 00:24, 29 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :::Well this is the real ], so what's the problem? I also had a laugh seeing how "active" a retired person is. So what are you gonna do from now? Make an edit, then change the retirement date each time?--] (]) 02:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :::: Alright, fun's over. People, let's get this over with and go back to editing instead of beating a dead horse. ]] 03:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| Thanks for doing the delisting. You forgot to add the {{tl|DelistedGA}} template to the talk pages, though. The instructions for delisting GA's can be found ]. I appreciate you are not a native English speaker, and may have some difficulty following all these complicated procedures, so thanks again for your help with the GA project. '']'' 21:03, 9 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/MassMessage}} ] (]) 17:33, 23 November 2015 (UTC) | |||
| : I replied on my talk page. '']'' 23:16, 9 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| <!-- Message sent by User:Mdann52@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User:Mdann52/list&oldid=692057745 --> | |||
| == What is this? == | |||
| Excuse me, but would you mind explaining ? I'm not sure what I said or did that offended you this much, nor am I sure what you mean. '''<font face="Verdana">]<sub><small>]</small></sub></font>''' 20:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::I think that nobody offended me actually, maybe you magnified this matter. My point is very clear. I prefer one who can vote over there must satisfied the following requirements in order to set up the authority of Wiki: | |||
| * With 5 - 6 years editorial experience (not only in Wiki) plus having publication/research papers in a university/college. | |||
| * With a PhD degree in the related field at least. | |||
| * It must be for an administrator only. | |||
| * Currently holding a tenure position in any college or university (this may not be necessary). | |||
| * With a good standing or record in both of your profession and Wiki. | |||
| If I get any advice from the person who have these qualification or experiece above mentioned, of course I will respect it and follow all his/her comment and make correction. | |||
| If you are sick, are you going to visit school boys and let them vote if you are sick? ] (]) 20:59, 14 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :I think Tony and I deserve a little better - and I think 99.9% of the people who have built this project (including Mr. ]) will fail your criteria. These people have made this place possible, and I think that deserves some respect. I hope our future interactions will be more pleasant, '''<font face="Verdana">]<sub><small>]</small></sub></font>''' 23:46, 14 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::Ditto; that comment of yours is a ]. And what happened to ]? ]]<small>(])</small> 04:48, 15 December 2007 (GMT) | |||
| ::Would you please kindly show me which part of my message or comment do you think it might be considered as a personal attack? Respect or honour are valuable asset. You had better '''earn''' it. However, if you don't have the basic requirements from above, your comments is worthless. I prefer comment or opinion from a related professional in a specific field. (i.e. History for historian, geography for geographer, etc) This is nothing to do with personal attack. ] (]) 08:04, 15 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Racism and personal attack== | |||
| Seeing as how you can barely write in English, I think we should instead question ''your'' interpretations of personal attacks and blatant racism. I choose not to have account, but that does not detract from the fact that you are both disruptive and bigoted. "Semi-handicapped"? There is no reason for such vitriol and you're lucky you have not been reported. You very well may be. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 04:29, 22 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :I don't need to know how to write beautiful English to please you. May I qoute what you said? you had better question yourself about the personal attacks and blatant racism. I would like to tell you I reserve my right to look down on you, wha do you think? ] (]) 04:42, 22 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ==Personal attacks== | |||
| I would just like to point out that while you are entitled to have your own opinions on government policies in foreign countries, edits such as would probably amount to a personal attack against the targeted nationality especially in the context of that message.--] (]) 19:06, 22 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Claiming that Singaporeans are "basically semi-handicapped" is a highly vicious anti-Singaporean personal attack. Please retract that statement and do not make further anti-Singaporean personal attacks. If not, I will bring this to the attention of several admins who will decide how to deal with you. --] (]) 01:44, 23 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::I am sorry that I made this statement on that page by mistake in case you think that it should be considered as personal attack. I simply made this statement after reading the article of ]. Thanks ] (]) 02:28, 23 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Civility == | |||
| Hi, | |||
| I notice that you've had a few comments now about some comments you have made. I thought I'd drop you a note on this. | |||
| The policy which matters here is ] ("civility") which means, god manners and courtesy to others. We talk to people nicely, we don't use bad words to them, we try to work with people, not angry or attacking. | |||
| I mention this because it is important this is followed, and if it is not then you may start to get problems from it, which would not be ideal. | |||
| So I am hoping that this message will help explain it's not okay to make such comments, which are incivil, or attack insult people, or talk badly of people. Although this is a warning, it's one I hope you will understand, and I hope you will accept what is said. If you feel there is a problem, please do instead ask for help, and let people sort it out without harsh words -- that's the best way :) You can seek help with a problem in many ways - see ] ("dispute resolution") for more. | |||
| Thanks! | |||
| ] <sup><span style="font-style:italic">(] | ])</span></sup> 03:06, 23 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Hong Kong == | |||
| Hi! You are angry with me, because I wrote "thank you for answering my question". You said you aren´t interested to answer me, so I don´t see a problem by writing to users Hong Qi Gong and Jiang thank you. I don´t see a problem if I´m polite towards two users. ] (]) 10:57, 23 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| == Template == | |||
| As you are heavily involved in the ] page, Could you make a Macau topics navigational template for the ''See also'' section something similar to ]? Other examples include: ]; ]; ]. A good resource would be ''']''' to choose certain topics. ] (]) 08:53, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :Excuse me, it seems to me this is not my task in the Wikiproject Macau, isn't it? ] (]) 10:44, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| ::So that's a no, then? ] (]) 11:31, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::I am working on it now!! almost finished! please wait!! ] (]) 11:32, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| :::: Oh I see. I didn't understand your sentence above which is why I asked. ] (]) 11:35, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| {| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};" | |||
| |rowspan="2" valign="middle" | ] | |||
| |rowspan="2" | | |||
| |style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Original Barnstar''' | |||
| |- | |||
| |style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | In recognition of your efforts on the ] page, I award you this barnstar. ] (]) 12:05, 26 December 2007 (UTC) | |||
| |} | |||
Latest revision as of 13:53, 4 March 2022
R E T I R E D
 Archives |
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Welcome back!
Welcome back, I hope you still like Misplaced Pages after being temporarily blocked. OhanaUnited 22:19, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
- Blocked? when? Coloane (talk) 23:04, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
- Opps, how come your archive links to the article's talk page archive? I'm going to fix it for you, ok? OhanaUnited 03:38, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Re: Indonesian Chinese
Did you see the reference tag placed behind that sentence? Ya, these are called references and they provide a fact whether you like it or not. And you can't accuse someone having sockpuppet or meatpuppet unless you give concrete proof (such as wording, spelling mistake, identical phrases) OhanaUnited 16:36, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
- I didn't object nor remove the tag they provided. What I objected is they keep reverting what I edited over there. What I edited didn't make a conflict with the reference they provided. Coloane (talk) 16:43, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
- I would like you to check their edit histories (i.e. user:Caniago and user:Merbabu) carefully and see if there are any identical phrases, words, etc. I highly suspect meatpuppet can be established. They always join hand in hand and edit all Indonesian articles and revert all those who are not from their ideas. Coloane (talk) 16:50, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
- You can try Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser if you have strong evidence (e.g. provide evidences such as exact wordings/identical phrases with diffs). But that's only if you're confident if it's sockpuppet. If it's meatpuppet, nothing we (or checkusers) can do because they're editing from 2 different IPs. Right now, I would suggest you to take a break from editing that article. Right now you are alone in this issue and your record counts against you. If Caniago and Merbabu's behaviour continues and someone else thinks it's disruptive, they will file an report and you may provide your evidence at the same time. So in short, take a break, ok? OhanaUnited 16:59, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, sure thing! Due to my heavy job here, would you please help me to check their histories and est if they are qualified as meatpuppet (most likely) or sockpuppet (most likely not, but still there are little chances). Regards! Coloane (talk) 17:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
- And don't do anything controversial. OhanaUnited 17:12, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, sure thing! Due to my heavy job here, would you please help me to check their histories and est if they are qualified as meatpuppet (most likely) or sockpuppet (most likely not, but still there are little chances). Regards! Coloane (talk) 17:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Re: User:Coloane's Topic ban issue
Dear User:Orderinchaos, User:Coloane, User:Merbabu, and User:Caniago:
I know this notice is going to be long and involves a bit of philosophical thinking, so TRY reading it at least twice before replying. I would like to point out a few things:
- Coloane's topic ban is very straight and simple. No nomination/review in GA and FA (as confirmed by community). It is suggested by Orderinchaos that this ban is extended to FT, FL, FP, FPORT, and FS (this requires community confirmation). However, Indonesian Chinese article is not in any of the aforementioned processes at the moment and I see Merbabu and Caniago are trying to discredit Coloane using the topic ban reason. This is nothing but straw man argument.
- Calling someone as sockpuppet/meatpuppet without concrete evidence is against AGF. BUT dealing with "uncivil" editors does not immediately grant you rights to be uncivil and not AGF.
- I am completely uninvolved regarding the topic ban issue or the Indonesian Chinese article. It's unfair for me to be dragged in, when I have to go through hundreds of diffs in the article as well evidences presented by different parties.
My recommendation to all parties is to move this discussion from my talk page to Talk:Chinese Indonesian, which is the talk page of the article you guys are disputing on. Try drop your conflicts that you had with other people and work as a team. Think about it. Had the person who reverted is not the person you had conflict with, would you want to stir up so much trouble just to win an argument? If things doesn't work out at the end, then we have no choice but to send it to WP:AN.
This notice has been copied exactly to all 4 people addressed in the first line. OhanaUnited 03:46, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
- As a matter of fact, the consensus of so-called topic ban on ANI has not been made as the user:Orderinchaos hijacked and terminated the discussion and proposal unmaturely. The ridiculous reason he gave was that he might see I may have more supporters after the question(s) asking by the user:josuechan. I never heard about this reason before. For the matter of sockpuppet/meatpuppet, I didn't formally accuse of the user:Caniago and user:Merbabu being as sockpuppets/meatpuppets. I only suspected the likelihood of being meatpuppet could be well-established. That is why I discussed this matter with you personally. I didn't expect that they intruded my personal discussion with you and wrote down nonsense (i.e.topic ban which is completely unrelated to the issue I discussed with you) on your talk page. I think they are smart enough to know it is a straw man argument. The main purpose for them to write down this nonsense is to distract my discussion of meatpuppet with you. Coloane (talk) 04:45, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
other comments
I don't understand why the table should be listed alphabetically. If the table is listed under the "list of countries with RANKINGS" (see the title of table below), it should be listed as a top down ranking with the highest GDP PPP per capita listing first. Other lists of countries like List of countries by birth rate, List of countries by GDP (PPP) per hour worked, List of countries by GDP (nominal), to name a few, are not listed alphabetically just like this article. Why they are excluded?? any reason for this?? if not, then would you consider this table as an(or your) original research (please refer to WP:OR) since this table was not specifically followed exactly what the sources provided like CIA or IMF? Coloane (talk) 18:02, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
- As you correctly indicated, your comment is really not suitable where you've put it, so I've put it here, and have replied here.
- As to the alphabetical question: a). This is not me who decided to sort it alphabetically. b). see the note (in italics) above the table. c). We have one unified table (including different lists of different bodies) - rather than 4 different tables, so the table can be sorted alphabetically only. If not alphabetically - then how can one sort it according to ranking? whose ranking? CIA ranking? IMF ranking? WB ranking? c). However, your question is answered on the article itself: see the note (in italics) above the table. Anyway, I highly recommend that you ask the person who decided to sort it alphabetically.
- As to the World Bank list: a) This is not me who added the WB list. b). Per capita values were obtained by dividing the PPP GDP data by the Population data. Anyway, I highly recommend that you ask the person who decided to add the WB list.
- Eliko (talk) 08:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
- Is that possible for you to restore the list which was ranked with the highest GDP PPP per capita listing first? Coloane (talk) 15:55, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
- This is the last version which sorted the countries according to ranking. Eliko (talk) 16:57, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for your searching. I prefer this version. Would you please restore this version after the process of mediation? Coloane (talk) 17:21, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
- Remind me then. Eliko (talk) 18:09, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Personal attacks
Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. I draw your attention specifically to the following: some types of comments are never acceptable: racial...epithets directed against another contributor and insulting or disparaging an editor is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done. Orderinchaos 01:15, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
February 2008
This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive comments.
If you continue to make personal attacks on other people as you did towards User:Orderinchaos, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. disparaging comments including race, education and similar - as explained above - are never accepted. I ask that you please be kind enough to show us your good manners and apologise to the editor involved as soon as possible --VS 01:55, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
This matter I already sent to Jimbo Wales. Coloane (talk) 01:56, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- Jimbo is not going to intervene for you. You need to stop making attacks against Orderinchaos immediately or you will be blocked. Orderinchaos is not bothering you, he was asked to comment on your community ban and he did so; leave it be. Shell 01:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- So let Jimbo make his own comment, you can't speak on behalf of him, am I right? Coloane (talk) 01:59, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- No, not really. This is not a subjective matter. You cannot attack other editors, no matter what justification you may feel you have. Please see WP:Civil. Enigma 02:02, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- I note your message regarding Jimbo - and concur with Shell Kinney. I am more than happy for you to wait until Jimbo replies to you but in the meantime I have asked you to show the wikipedia community that you are able to apologise directly to Orderinchaos and I will be interested to see if you are able to bring yourself to achieving that request?--VS 02:03, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- You all don't understand! I am not talking about personal attacks. I am talking about: hijacking the discussion and disturbing my discussion with OhanaUnited. There is no format of apology and, apology has been made. Check the talk page of OhanaUnited. Coloane (talk) 02:04, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- OhanaUnited asked Orderinchaos about the topic ban - this is the only reason he commented. Orderinchaos was not hijacking or disturbing your discussion. Your "apology" on OhanaUnited's talk page included another attack on Orderinchaos; it would probably be best if you sincerely apologized and ceased any form of attack on other Misplaced Pages contributors. Shell 02:12, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- Slip sliding around is not going to assist you to show the community that you are prepared to change your ways. You have been particularly offensive to Orderinchaos and you have been asked to apologise personally to him. Whether you do or not will give everyone else watching an understanding of the type of editor you are - my point is to try to get you to understand the importance of a sincere apology - and not the off-handed comment you made at OhanaUnited. How you do or don't put that apology will speak to us very clearly. Would you care to consider my request?--VS 02:13, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- well, believe me or not, I don't know what do you mean by sincere apology. If you want, you can give me a format and let me fill and sign, what do you think? Coloane (talk) 02:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
No Coloane if you don't know how to say sorry to a fellow editor or human being there is not much I can do to help you now. Thank you. Please note the warning will remain in effect and blocking will occur if you re-offend.--VS 02:27, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- yeah, I already read your warning message (actually two warnings gave me together immediately). Regards! Coloane (talk) 02:31, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Your latest question on my talk page refers. My answer is:
- Would you be happy with such an apology if I commented on your education and racial background in disparaging terms?
- Would you be happy if I put that apology on another person's page or would you think me more polite and courageous if I put it on your page? --VS 02:53, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- well, I think Orderinchaos will keep very close eye on my edit history and I am sure he already read my message of apology, no matter where I put, am I right? Coloane (talk) 03:04, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Retirement
If you left permanently in January, then this latest controversy would not have happened. Enigma 15:41, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- With the increasing groundswell of hostility he has created so far in the community, it's just a matter of time before he is being blocked indefinitely or faced a permanent community ban ultimately. No doubt about that. I had a good laugh when I stumbled upon his recent postings at Jimbo's page. I almost fell off from my chair, especially by the closing remarks made by daveh4h. That was a classic! -- 165.21.154.116 (talk) 17:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- Dear IP from Singapore, if you fall off from your chair, please fall off somewhere else. I am not sure if you are user:Huaiwei or his other followers, but please refrain from making unconstructive and provokable comments here on my talk page. I am still actively appearing in French Misplaced Pages and thus I check this talk page from time to time. Coloane (talk) 19:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- If you are still writing you are not retired. Can you please change your retired notice to reflect today's date of February 28, 2008?--VS 22:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- Dear IP from Singapore, if you fall off from your chair, please fall off somewhere else. I am not sure if you are user:Huaiwei or his other followers, but please refrain from making unconstructive and provokable comments here on my talk page. I am still actively appearing in French Misplaced Pages and thus I check this talk page from time to time. Coloane (talk) 19:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
- Change noted - thank you.--VS 00:24, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
- Well this is the real user:Huaiwei, so what's the problem? I also had a laugh seeing how "active" a retired person is. So what are you gonna do from now? Make an edit, then change the retirement date each time?--Huaiwei (talk) 02:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
- Alright, fun's over. People, let's get this over with and go back to editing instead of beating a dead horse. OhanaUnited 03:08, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
- Well this is the real user:Huaiwei, so what's the problem? I also had a laugh seeing how "active" a retired person is. So what are you gonna do from now? Make an edit, then change the retirement date each time?--Huaiwei (talk) 02:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
ArbCom elections are now open!
Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:33, 23 November 2015 (UTC)