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Latest revision as of 02:36, 25 November 2024 edit undoQuick, Spot the Quetzalcoatl! (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers3,786 edits →The description "conspiracy theory" seems like a conclusion: ReplyTag: Reply |
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== The description "conspiracy theory" seems like a conclusion == |
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|| This article was nominated for ] on 25 February 2006. The result of the ] was {{{result|'''keep'''}}}. |
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Archive: ] |
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== Turns == |
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(removing comment by sock ) |
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:Hog the article? Everyone is welcome to participate. It's a collaboration. ]] ] 21:31, 25 September 2007 (UTC) |
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:On further review, I see I've made just three edits to the article. You've made eleven edits, as of this moment. It is inappropriate to tell other editors to stay away because they've edited too much. ]] ] 21:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC) |
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(removing comment by sock) |
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:::It's great that you're helping, just please don't denigrate the contributions of others, or demand that they stop contributing. ]] ] 21:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC) |
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== RidinHood25, Mightyms , MoneyHabit et al... == |
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are socks of banned user {{user6|Amorrow}}. Our policy is ban on sight, revert on sight. Deleting their commentary outright (which I am about to do) will leave holes. Therefore, other editors are encouraged to decide to remove their replies if desired. ++]: ]/] 00:12, 15 October 2007 (UTC) |
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== Register articles == |
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Per , I was prepared to remove the Register link from here. Some IP had removed it earlier. I've gone ahead and removed the other Register story from there that was linked as well, about the mail lists. If one article isn't a reliable source on one article, theres no reason it would be acceptable on another. To apply double standards along those lines would be a total NPOV violation and not good. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">]</font></span> 07:35, 10 December 2007 (UTC) |
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: Whether the Register is a "reliable source" is debatable (I see that the Register is quote in ]), but the most recent attempt to add the link placed it in the SEC investigation section, which doesn't make sense. I'd tend to agree that the Byrne/Wikipedia/Register thing doesn't merit mention here as long as the Register is the sole source, but it might be worth mentioning in the aforementioned "Criticism" article. <b>] ]</b> 03:22, 11 December 2007 (UTC) |
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::Well, I think there was a New York Times source mentioned over on the Weiss page. If the NYT plus the Register is talking about the petty feud between Weiss and Byrne, we would have no excuse to not cover it at least in passing on both articles. Which NYT articles were they? <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">]</font></span> 16:18, 11 December 2007 (UTC) |
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:::There's been some hesitancy about adding that language to this article on WEIGHT and duplication grounds, as it is covered in ], and it's been discussed elsewhere with Jimbo ruling The Register is not an RS source on this subject matter. That is why JzG removed Register cites from that article. But I imagine one can borrow some of the language and tone of the reference in Overstock for a brief mention here.--] (]) 16:29, 11 December 2007 (UTC) |
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::::Which NYT article was the source? There shouldn't be any problem with related language appearing in both or all three articles. If the NYT has covered the feud, we have no reason not to mention it on both this page and Weiss's at least in passing. The existence or acknowledgement of a feud that was reported on in an internationally distributed newspaper isn't any sort of possible BLP or WEIGHT violation that I can see. Also, one person can rule an entire site non-RS? I doubt that. I thought it was the fact that I kept seeing multiple people saying that the Register wasn't an RS specifically in regards to Misplaced Pages, not Weiss and Byrne. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">]</font></span> 16:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC) |
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:::::It's not a "feud," it is a proxy campaign by Overstock against critics. Look at the sources in the link. That said, I think what's needed here is a reference to the smear campaign on this page that is consistent in tone and sourcing with the stable, consensus version at Overstock.com. Jimbo's authority re sourcing is a mega-issue and you'll have to ask elsewhere on that. Specifically, an article critical of Overstock from the Register was removed from the Overstock page by Jzg.--] (]) 16:52, 11 December 2007 (UTC) |
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::::::The New York Times , or more precisely as an "increasingly vicious online dispute," and as a "flame war among 14-year-old boys."--] (]) 20:46, 13 December 2007 (UTC) |
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:::::::OK, I was just curious since I kept seeing this all referred to everywhere. What was that NYT source by the way? <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">]</font></span> 16:56, 11 December 2007 (UTC) |
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::::::::It's cited in the Overstock section on ASM, a portion of a "What's Online" column.--] (]) 16:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC) |
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:::::::::Thanks Sami. <span style="font-variant:small-caps"><font color="#800080">]</font></span> 17:01, 11 December 2007 (UTC) |
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::::::::::Hello folks, what's with the blatant censorship of Misplaced Pages criticism? You might as well go and call this place Jimbopedia. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 13:50, 13 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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(restoring indent) There's no "censorship." A Register article highly unfavorable to Byrne was removed from ]. The Register is simply not an RS source as relates to BLPs.--] (]) 13:57, 13 December 2007 (UTC) |
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:I am a long-term reader of The Register and find it very reliable, thank you very much. However, if you want to turn Misplaced Pages into Jimbopedia, I guess you are free to do whatever you like. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 16:37, 14 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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==WEIGHT and Nocera== |
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We seem to be giving a lot of weight to Nocera. I take him as a mainstream source, but I'm a little wary about quoting hearsay like "Though no one will say so publicly, the word is that Utah officials now feel they were snookered by the Overstock C.E.O. And that his behavior at that meeting further damaged his credibility. ..." ] '']'' 03:08, 24 January 2008 (UTC) |
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At this point, there is a truckload of evidence that partisans in top positions used a fake dossier from Christopher Steele and Fusion to abuse the FISA process and wiretap the Trump campaign, but the label "conspiracy theory" seems to suggest that any such conclusion would be tantamount to mere paranoia. Thus, the article seems very politically biased. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:29, 24 August 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Perhaps, to put that in context, we need to add a quote from this Deseret News article, describing his prominence as largest individual campaign contributor in the state. The newspaper said "Patrick Byrne by himself managed to supply about $1 of every $20 given by Utah individuals to candidates or political groups, according to a Deseret Morning News analysis of federal and state campaign disclosure data from 2003 to now." I think that might assuage any WEIGHT concern, by putting it in context. I believe there are other articles along those lines in the local media. --] (]) 04:49, 24 January 2008 (UTC) |
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:"The Deep State Conspiracy Theory" in the top section is incoherent - WTH is this? If it had its own page and linked to it, okay, but there is zero explanation, which leads to the transparent effort, once again, to hang the "conspiracy" label on anyone who questions anything. A simple sentence that actually uses Byrne's own words would suffice, but the job of wikipedia editors is to shape the narrative for the readers, even if it makes no sense. ] (]) 05:22, 2 September 2019 (UTC) |
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::No, he's certainly a large contributer, but you didn't address the problem with the part of the quote I reproduced above. When one party speculates about the mental states of several other parties—and especially when they claim "no one will say so publicly"—it seems to be the sort of heresay we don't allow on BLPs. ] '']'' 19:47, 24 January 2008 (UTC) |
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:: The ] is indeed a conspiracy theory. He did indeed promote it. And boned a Russian spy. We're not here to sugar coat that. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 21:04, 3 September 2019 (UTC) |
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The whole article is so biased it doesn't even warrant improvement. If the authors let references to Proud Boys get into this article and not the evidence Byrne can present that the 2020 election was indeed fraudulent, we might just as well throw this whole bio away. It's an utter smear against Byrne coming from political propagandists instead of an attempt to objectively describe what happened. Disgusting to see how low wikipedia has gone. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 23:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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::Incidentally, the ''Salt Lake Tribune'' source I added (which is sadly not online because of how quickly the ''Trib'' removes their content) implies that the fight was actually with an attorney representing the Securities Industry Association. It's wild reading, but I think it's too much WEIGHT to detail it (plus it's unclear who started it, ect). Here's the relevent text: |
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:"Evidence Byrne can present" not "has presented" - the tense you have chosen in your comment says a lot. Though if you have this "evidence" the "election was indeed fradulent" we have all been waiting with baited breath for, please do share! ] (]) 02:36, 25 November 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Feb. 27--Under threat of a lawsuit by brokers, legislators Monday were just one step away from killing Utah's short-lived law targeting alleged stock trading manipulation. |
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== Now apparently giving extreme advice to Dponald Trump == |
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:::And Overstock.com CEO Patrick Byrne, who was a prime mover behind the measure's passage in a May special session, was livid. "This is worse than mere betrayal," he said. "It is selling out the state of Utah." |
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See this article: -- ] (]) 11:21, 22 December 2020 (UTC) |
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:::That conviction boiled over during a Monday morning meeting among Byrne and other Over-stock officials, legislators, state lawyers and brokerage representatives. At one point, Byrne had a heated exchange with Michael Ostermiller, a South Ogden attorney representing the Securities Industry Association. |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 25 June 2021 == |
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:::Byrne had told lawmakers an unidentified national journalist told him he "smells skunk" in the rapid genesis of SB277, introduced and passed Friday by the Senate to repeal the naked shorting statute. If something proves to be amiss, Byrne said, he would make sure the facts were known. |
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{{edit semi-protected|Patrick M. Byrne|answered=yes}} |
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:::During the increasingly angry banter that followed, Ostermiller and Byrne began talking about which side of the debate had more "guts." At some point -- accounts differ who first uttered the phrase -- the words "take it outside" came up. According to Jonathan Johnson, Overstock's senior vice president for legal and corporate affairs, it was Byrne who responded: "Is that an offer?" |
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There seems to be an error in this sentence in the "Financing and promoting claims in blog, books, media, organizations, and film" section: |
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In 2021 . . . The book, largely compiled of text copied-and-pasted from Byrne's blog, was hastily produced, with the print version including hyperlinks and video embedded video useful for paper format. |
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It seems clear that the text SHOULD read ". . . with the print version including hyperlinks and embedded video NOT useful IN THE PRINTED format." ] (]) 02:06, 25 June 2021 (UTC) |
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:::Nothing more came of the dust-up, and Byrne later told The Salt Lake Tribune that he and Ostermiller had since talked. "We made up. a gentlemanly guy," Byrne said. |
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: Good catch! ] (]) 03:56, 25 June 2021 (UTC) |
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== Don't lie about filmmakers! == |
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:::Ostermiller insists he never meant for his comments to be interpreted as an invitation to fight Byrne -- a former boxer and tae kwon do black belt. Rather, Ostermiller says he and the Overstock founder "were enthusiastically debating. There was no real conversation about anything 'going outside,' There was a spirited, energetic debate on a complex issue. Patrick Byrne and I have spoken since and it's over. I don't harbor any ill will." ... |
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Roger R. Richards never blamed the 9/11 attacks on aliens! He did claim that the 9/11 attacks were intended to destroy information about aliens, but never claimed that aliens caused the 9/11 attacks! Being biased against his views does not give you the right to lie about him. Please delete this lie. |
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::] '']'' 20:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC) |
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: We can only go off what appropriate third-party sources have said. In this case, that means the mainstream media, that have dug pretty deeply in recent months given the notability of Byrne's new political involvements and ... well ... "unique" choices for recent company. This is how the useable sources discuss Richards and his involvement with Byrne (Rachel Maddow made the direct conneciton, as have others), and that's why he is described as such here. ] (]) 22:09, 2 July 2021 (UTC) |
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:You didn't really counter my argument. You are merely trying to persuade me that Rachel Maddow's a more trustworthy authority on filmmakers than Imdb; that's at least what you seem to be doing to me. I repeat: please cut out this smear on Roger R. Richards's name. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 23:15, 10 July 2021 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:: Yes, she is a third-party source, IMDB is not. We go by third-party sources here. Have a pleasant day! ] (]) 15:05, 11 July 2021 (UTC) |
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:IMDB's not a third-party source? Then what political ideology does it identify as, might I ask? |
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:: I have no idea what you are asking, what does IMDB have to do with politics... ] (]) 01:46, 12 July 2021 (UTC) |
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:That's just my point. It doesn't! |
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:: And why would politics matter in this situation? We are talking about the need for third-party articles, not poltically neutral ones. ] (]) 13:54, 12 July 2021 (UTC) |
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:Rachel Maddow makes a living bashing conservatives. IMDB does not care about politics. Therefore, IMDB is a third-party source, while Maddow is not. Remember Misplaced Pages's NPOV rule, please. |
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:: Feel free to review the rules of the site if you feel that way - specifically here: ] and ]. If you are concerned about either of these regulatory documents, I would take that up on their talk pages, where editors can discuss how they might be changed (as there isn't anything a discussion here is going to do about how we follow them). Have a great day! ] (]) 17:46, 12 July 2021 (UTC) |
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:: Watch the trailer for Above Majestic (the movie I think your article's lying about). It tells you what the filmmakers really believe about 9/11. |
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::: A filmmaker's own trailer would not be a proper independent third-party source unfortunately. ] (]) 23:11, 15 July 2021 (UTC) |
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::A filmmaker's own work is not a reliable source for telling people what he thinks? I'm afraid I can't get that logic. |
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::: Then, I am afraid, there is nothing more to talk about :) ] (]) 04:54, 17 July 2021 (UTC) |
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== Mistake in wording == |
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:::That's a good source and I think it needs to be reflected in the article, as does Byrne's colorful language. According to the Nocera article, he has called Bramble a "squish" and a "yellowbelly," and that he was "cursing" at the meeting. Surely such language, from the largest political contributor in Utah and CEO of a public company, is notable. While Nocera has an opinion on Byrne, I don't believe his column rates as an "opinion" piece. Even if it were, I believe that it would be considered a reliable source under RS. Your point re "speculation" does resound with me somewhat and I'd have to think about that.--] (]) 21:07, 24 January 2008 (UTC) |
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This text, "he repeatedly promoted unevidenced claims that ] had won the ] due to voter fraud." indicates that he believes that Trump won the election, but only through voter fraud. I doubt he believes that. He might think that Trump LOST the election due to voter fraud. |
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=="Media attention" section== |
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How is this different from the short selling section? There's already lots of "media attention" and opinion commentary coverage in the naked short section. This seems superflous. ] '']'' 20:41, 24 January 2008 (UTC) |
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I couldn't find a way to submit this change directly. ] (]) 21:04, 20 November 2023 (UTC) |
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: I think it's clear enough, as the first text is just there to provide an overview of the whole page. Byrne believes Trump "won", and that voter fraud denied him the victory. ] (]) 02:07, 21 November 2023 (UTC) |
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::Yes, the article clear -- clearly nonsensical. It's disappointing to see that Misplaced Pages is ok with this. Why not just correct the clumsy wording? One possible fix is to add five words e.g "... promoted unevidenced claims that Donald Trump had won the 2020 U.S. presidential election AND ONLY APPEARED TO LOSE due to voter fraud." ] (]) 15:13, 3 May 2024 (UTC) |
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::: He did not "appear" to lose; he lost, fair and square. ] (]) 16:38, 3 May 2024 (UTC) |
At this point, there is a truckload of evidence that partisans in top positions used a fake dossier from Christopher Steele and Fusion to abuse the FISA process and wiretap the Trump campaign, but the label "conspiracy theory" seems to suggest that any such conclusion would be tantamount to mere paranoia. Thus, the article seems very politically biased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.152.216.213 (talk) 02:29, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
The whole article is so biased it doesn't even warrant improvement. If the authors let references to Proud Boys get into this article and not the evidence Byrne can present that the 2020 election was indeed fraudulent, we might just as well throw this whole bio away. It's an utter smear against Byrne coming from political propagandists instead of an attempt to objectively describe what happened. Disgusting to see how low wikipedia has gone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C00:262D:C500:135F:39E3:207E:B246 (talk) 23:52, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
There seems to be an error in this sentence in the "Financing and promoting claims in blog, books, media, organizations, and film" section:
In 2021 . . . The book, largely compiled of text copied-and-pasted from Byrne's blog, was hastily produced, with the print version including hyperlinks and video embedded video useful for paper format.
It seems clear that the text SHOULD read ". . . with the print version including hyperlinks and embedded video NOT useful IN THE PRINTED format." 173.77.17.45 (talk) 02:06, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
Roger R. Richards never blamed the 9/11 attacks on aliens! He did claim that the 9/11 attacks were intended to destroy information about aliens, but never claimed that aliens caused the 9/11 attacks! Being biased against his views does not give you the right to lie about him. Please delete this lie.
