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It is at best debatable and at worst incorrect to state that PDCA/PDSA is meant to be used for major changes. This was never the intent or application by Shewart or Deming, which was confined to improvement for quality control purposes for products, experiments, etc. I have left it in the main text while pointing this out as dubious in the problems with PDCA section. In my discussion with Deming about 2 decades ago when he visited Australia he emphasized that PDCA was at least a simple way to get people thinking about quality and laughed when I pointed out that Do and Act have the same meaning in English. Such are the foibles of simple methods. Han <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 09:36, 2 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
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== Somethings inconsistent in the About section: around PDCA / PDSA ==
:: No problem with this, but please bear in mind that major changes should be discussed on this page prior to implementation. ] (]) 18:51, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
:::: After seeing changes to the page, I raised the issues here for that purpose. It is my hope that we can achieve a balanced viewpoint on PDCA, which the page as initially viewed did not have. Whether PDCA should be critiqued here or off page is open to discussion. I tried the latter initially but the links were deleted - I think for political reasons (i.e. no criticism or dissent here please), so I feel it necessary to raise it on page. As the author of the originating pages I make it available under the GNU Free document license provisions. I am happy to see the discussion linked off page if that is the desired approach. Han. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 09:41, 4 February 2008 (UTC)</small>


''"PDCA is associated with W. Edwards Deming, who is considered by many to be the father of modern quality control; however, he used PDSA (Plan-Do-Study-Act) and referred to it as the "Shewhart cycle". Later in Deming's career, he modified PDCA to "Plan, Do, Study, Act" (PDSA) because he felt that "check" emphasized inspection over analysis."''
::::*I urge you to read the following Misplaced Pages policies: -- ] (]) 14:35, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::*]: Misplaced Pages is not a platform to promote your consulting business as you anonymously attempted to do:
:::::::: Hello Daniel, I apologize for the anonymity - that was a problem with loss of account details, since corrected
:::::::: As stated, I think any commercial organization link is exactly the same (including ASQ, the quality network, etc. which are all selling services, courses, consultancy, etc). As soon as you link to their site, you open up their ability to sell things. So I am quite happy to have all these commercial links removed - I accept consistent application of link policy - hence if you remove the ASQ link then you are being consistent and I accept that. On the other hand if you allow links to such commercial organization information pages from this page, then this should be consistent too, although I know from other pages that I share editing with others that Misplaced Pages policy is not consistently applied ;-) . --] (]) 20:12, 4 February 2008 (UTC)] (]) 19:29, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::*http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=PDCA&diff=prev&oldid=181853039
::::::*http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=PDCA&diff=next&oldid=186646817
:::::*]: Misplaced Pages is not a ]
:::::*]: Misplaced Pages is not a forum in which to publish original research
:::::::: My work has been published in ASQ's Quality Progress and other Quality magazines and journals in Australia and Europe, so it is no more nor less spam/soapboxing/original research than PDCA, DMAIC, etc. While it is probably the case that you have not read about it, that does not make it less so. It is important for readers to be aware of shortcomings or problems with various concepts, methods, techniques otherwise authors are doing readers a disservice. I know in my discussion with Deming about some of the weaknesses of PDCA our views had a lot in common. I take this seriously, I am not trying to belittle Deming and his work which I hold in high respect and I follow his admonition to questions and learn from what you see and read. --] (]) 20:12, 4 February 2008 (UTC)] (]) 19:29, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::*]: Blanking is prohibited, as you attempted to do anonymously, then via your account:
::::::*http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=PDCA&diff=next&oldid=187540759
::::::*http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=PDCA&diff=next&oldid=187918407
::::::*http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=PDCA&diff=next&oldid=187948561
::::::*http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=PDCA&diff=next&oldid=188171693
::::::*http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=PDCA&diff=next&oldid=188178812
:::::::: Is this not what you did first or was it someone else? I was following that lead by removing the remaining commercial organization links that in the page link to items sold on the site (see bottom of the ASQ page where they are selling the Quality Toolbox). So, I would like to return to the question I posed. If the linked page provides information on topic (even if a critique), is it allowable or not?
] (]) 19:29, 4 February 2008 (UTC)


Did he start with PDCA and changed later to PDSA or vice versa? ] (]) 12:59, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
Regarding links - there is a link battle going on here, either all external information links that are directly relevant to the topic should be allowed, or none. With PDCA being such a generally known concept, every organization can claim or provide information pages (including ASQ of which I am a member). It is therefore better not to link to any such commercial organizations if readers/contributors think the links are being abused. Han


:: You seem to be trying to define Misplaced Pages policy yourself. Please do not embark on campaigns of hacking out exisitng links, or adding them 'en bloc' on the basis of your own personal opinion. There is a long standing set of guidelines and internal policies here. ] (]) 18:51, 2 February 2008 (UTC) :I was thinking the same. Surely, it is supposed to read '...he modified PDSA to "Plan, Do, Check, Act" (PDCA) because he...'? ] (]) 12:06, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
:::: Sorry, I disagree and am not trying to do so. I am not sure who did the original link deletion, although Daniel Penfield has been active of late in maintaining some commercial links in while deleting others (ASQ is a commercial organization as I note above). It is why I raised it here in discussion. It would be helpful to know with whom I am having this discussion. Thank you. Han


Shouldn't this information be moved to the Shewhart cycle page and just make this a redirect? ...especially since this seems to be a more focused discussion of the topic than what's there?

--] 13:21, 15 October 2006 (UTC)


I've added the template for merging this page into ].

--] 03:09, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Re: "Velocity of change"; "velocity" reads like a buzzword. How about "volatility"?
Re: "allows for quantum breakthroughs"; "quantum" sounds like selling. How about "allows for breakthroughs".

--] 17:54, 11 April 2007

I agree. 'Velocity of change' to 'rate of change.' Volatility is suggestive of great change, but not necessarily mostly in one direction.

As for 'quantum breakthroughs,' how big is a quantum? It's defined by those promoting the breakthrough. A nice adjective that does not, IMHO, add information. Do we ever have a small breakthrough?

In the changes just made (by me), the references are in the text because I don't know yet how to put them in properly.

--] 4:59, 18 Sept. 2007 (UTC)

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Somethings inconsistent in the About section: around PDCA / PDSA

"PDCA is associated with W. Edwards Deming, who is considered by many to be the father of modern quality control; however, he used PDSA (Plan-Do-Study-Act) and referred to it as the "Shewhart cycle". Later in Deming's career, he modified PDCA to "Plan, Do, Study, Act" (PDSA) because he felt that "check" emphasized inspection over analysis."

Did he start with PDCA and changed later to PDSA or vice versa? Dostl ba (talk) 12:59, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I was thinking the same. Surely, it is supposed to read '...he modified PDSA to "Plan, Do, Check, Act" (PDCA) because he...'? 95.80.39.123 (talk) 12:06, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
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