| Revision as of 08:49, 22 February 2008 editRich Farmbrough (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors1,725,587 edits →Assurances: new section← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 13:23, 12 October 2009 edit undoDeirdreAnne (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users12,821 editsm Redirect sock's talk to user | ||
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| #REDIRECT ] | |||
| ==Unblock Request== | |||
| Nonwikied as I request discussion to ensure the facts are correct. | |||
| <nowiki>{{unblock|Reason given on talk page, in section 1, Discussion is split into relevant sections. Request is for discussion and review amongst admins knowledgeable about the main page deletion incident listed in section 1.1.2. Since it is an indefinite block a request is made for all due process and complete reading of statements.}}</nowiki> | |||
| ===Clean Hands Argument=== | |||
| ] is a recognized legal defense in western law. The wikipedia equivalent is in the WP:essay ]. | |||
| From ] | |||
| :'''Unclean hands''', sometimes '''clean hands doctrine''', is an ] in which the ] argues that the ] is not entitled to obtain an ] on account of the fact that the plaintiff is acting ] or has acted in ] with respect to the subject of the ]—that is, with "unclean hands". | |||
| ====Relevance==== | |||
| The citation given in the block log: (]) | |||
| :The blocking Admin has set the block to '''indefinite''' citing "''until assurances are made that malicious bots will not be used''". | |||
| As of 2008-02-21 the Admin has not responded to an email asking to detail exactly what ''assurances'' entails. | |||
| ====Fact (basis of argument)==== | |||
| Just hours after the block, the blocking Admin* used an unapproved bot to circumnavigate WP protection policies to allow his manipulation and destruction of the content and the history of the main page. , | |||
| *(* as this is not intended as personal attack on the admin, but an argument on the nature of his actions, the name will not be mentioned in the request.) | |||
| =====Specific Discussion on Fact as described above===== | |||
| :Is the description of the Fact accurate? Discuss | |||
| <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> | |||
| No, he didn't destroy the history of the Main Page - he just made it more difficult to navigate. And the Main Page deletion and the associated kerfuffle happened *after* your block, and therefore has nothing to do with it. ''']'''<font color="green">]</font> 08:06, 22 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ====Argument==== | |||
| (''But I don't want to read all this, you're just an editor mad about being blocked and I'm prettier.'', Then read the ].) | |||
| As the block was issued just hours before the Admin started using a bot to make non-useful edits for the purpose of bypassing protections of and then deleting the main page, his citation in the block reason (''"until assurances are made that malicious bots will not be used"'') was issued in '''bad faith'''. | |||
| The Admin's use of an '''unapproved and some would call malicious bot''' had a '''severe impact to WP, the WP community, and the WP adminship''' far outweighing the actions of ] and while '''] is permanently blocked the Admin received no official administrative action whatsoever.''' The Admin's use of the bot to purposely and willfully '''circumnavigate specific protections''' of the main page was a clear '''slap in the face''' of almost every '''WP:policy and guideline'''. | |||
| The Admin's use of an '''indefinite block''' combined with '''the citation and its timing''' indicates that he at the least may not feel the actions of admins and the adminstered have equal weight (which easily leads to assuming bad faith) and at the worst '''may act punitively''' in regard to the actions of others as opposed to his own mistakes. | |||
| =====Requested Action===== | |||
| '''As such the block on ] should be released immediately and either:''' | |||
| * '''reinstated by another Admin''' whose conduct in this matter is beyond question | |||
| **given a specific citation of the reason blocked | |||
| **and either: | |||
| ***changed to a specified amount of time | |||
| ***changed to indefinite and given criteria for unblocking in specific quantifiable statements | |||
| ** | |||
| * '''reinstated indefinitely by another Admin''' whose conduct in this matter is beyond question | |||
| ** followed by a '''formal ban request against the user''' | |||
| * '''not reinstated''' | |||
| =====Discussion of the argument and requested action===== | |||
| <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> | |||
| ---- | |||
| ===Permanent Blocks are in effect unapproved Bans=== | |||
| Permanent blocks give all the impacts of a ] but do not have the formal review, approval, or logging processes that the Ban gives. The blocked party is at a disadvantage as compared to a ban candidate. Rogue Admins could conceivably use Permanent bans to circumvent the Ban request process. | |||
| From ] | |||
| :An indefinite block is a block that does not have a fixed duration. Indefinite blocks are usually applied when there is significant disruption or threats of disruption, or major breaches of policy. | |||
| *Was the disruption significant? | |||
| *Was it more significant than the actions taken by the banning Admin? | |||
| *Was the action a major breach of policy | |||
| *Was the action a more serious breach than the actions taken by the banning Admin? (Was it breachier?) | |||
| ====Discussion on the use of permanent blocks as described above==== | |||
| <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> | |||
| ---- | |||
| ===Action that led to the initial block=== | |||
| Initial action that led to the block | |||
| :The initial action was in response to an ] that occurred between editor ] and editor ] on February 1, 2008. The war occurred on the ] article. | |||
| ====Actions of the blocked editor==== | |||
| :In the days leading up to the event heavy editing was made to the 2008 election articles by named users and anonymous users. These edits either removed candidates, added candidates, reordered candidates, or distorted the candidate images. The general opinion on these articles was that candidates would be listed in alphabetical order as the major parties are. It is by far the least contentious way to list candidates. The sources used to compile candidate lists were ABC, CNN, Fox News, Reuters, NY Times as well as other major media outlets. | |||
| :To maintain the candidate gallery in its consensued state a bot was created by editor ] this bot had the following commands. | |||
| ::Read each of the articles. | |||
| ::If the candidate gallery section was different than the candidate gallery section listed in a text file revert the change. | |||
| ::Save the page. | |||
| :The bot would allow changes to other sections of the article but maintain the order and the content of the candidate gallery. | |||
| ::The bot maintained the order of the candidates preventing Ron Paul from being placed first and preventing the Removal or Reorder of Mike Gravel. The bot also reverted several edits that removed the candidates images by changing the image tag filenames. | |||
| ====Actions of the other editors.==== | |||
| :In the days leading up to the incident several editors would add Alan Keyes to one of the many Republican articles or sections of articles and then demand that consensus be achieved on the talk page before removing him. This editors never initiated a poll or request for comment intended to either ascertain or achieve consensus nor did they initiate any sort of comment on the talk page before adding the candidate. | |||
| :These editors were later found to be Keyes supporters | |||
| ::] stated so on the talk page ], ] | |||
| ::] was found to be a ] founded shortly after Keyes announcement to run ], only edited 2008 Republican candidate articles and the main 2008 election article ], and has a identically named account on Keyes's forum where he has discussed editing wikipedia on behalf of Keyes Content], ] | |||
| ====The war==== | |||
| :Editor ] started an edit war with the bot, adding Keyes over 100 times, in each case his edit was removed. This conflict lasted over 3hours. | |||
| :Actions of the blocked editor during the war | |||
| ::The editor ] slept, later woke up and microwaved a hot pocket (''faint jingle'' ]). | |||
| ====After Actions==== | |||
| :Admin ] blocked both users 22 hours for edit waring | |||
| ::Editor ] cried via email to be unblocked prior to the expiration period. His request was approved | |||
| :::In Editor ]'s unblock log Admin ] violated the practice of '''not using the block log to record warnings or other negative events''' (]) in his description: (]) | |||
| ::::''User spoke with me through e-mail - blocks are preventative, not punitive, and new evidence points towards malicious intent by the other party in the edit war with a bot..'' | |||
| ::::The description attacks editor ] in a medium which he can not defend himself and accuses him of ''malicious intent''. Description references ''New Evidence'' that was not given to the accused at the time and still has not been presented in any communication. | |||
| ::Editor ] decided to calmly and respectfully serve out his sentence and reflect on what he learned. | |||
| :::Editor ] later discovered that he was blocked forever, which is a long time to reflect. He was given no notice of or the reason why he was blocked forever and appealed to block in order to get that information. The request was declined and editor ] received an ambiguous note ''"until assurances are made that malicious bots will not be used"'' . A request to detail the word ''assurances'' as "what kind of assurances" has gone unanswered. | |||
| ====End state==== | |||
| :Today on the main election page, Gravel remains included and the candidates remain in alphabetical order. Evidence that it is the generally agreed upon state. | |||
| :Editor ] has continued only making edits to republican candidate lists. ] | |||
| :Misplaced Pages continues to be a safe and warm place that allows its citizens to quench their thirst for knowledge. Evidence that the bots widespread and rampant disruption on a scale so massive that it required an indefinite block may have been exaggerated. It not like editor ] deleted the main page. (]). | |||
| (And since I did it twice I should be banned forever for ]. --smiles--)--] (]) 22:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ====Specific Discussion of the edit war listed above==== | |||
| <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> | |||
| ---- | |||
| ==The Short Argument== | |||
| :Admin used an unapproved bot to override WP protective measures at or around the same time the block was initiated | |||
| ::Therefore his blocking reason and citation was not in good faith (''do as I say not as I'm about to do'') | |||
| :::He appears to hold the actions of himself or other admins in higher regard than the actions of others | |||
| ::::Assuming good faith means all good faith edits are equal | |||
| :::::Not to be read as : Some good faith edits are more equal than others, ] | |||
| :::::IP, named, admin | |||
| :::::''I don't know the population of Wallaco County, MN but since you have an IP account I'm gonna undo your addition to the new article'' | |||
| :::::''I've been here 4 years and edited 400,000 pages so my statements on the Nintendo Wii are factier'' | |||
| :::::''I'm an admin you're not, I can use unapproved bots all I want to circumnavigate protective measures of the main page'' | |||
| ::He has received no official administrative action | |||
| :::''I'm an admin, you're an admin, we're all in a tizy about what you've done, but just don't use an unapproved bot to do'' '''THAT''' ''more than once. Now lets get back to blocking other people for that'' | |||
| :The use of indefinite blocks as a substitute for bans is not right | |||
| ::Blocks are meant as protective not punitive | |||
| :::Blocks for 1, 2 years are just as protective as indefinite ones | |||
| :::Indefinite blocks just to avoid the possibility of vandalism in 2 years is admin laziness | |||
| ::Bans are a formal process that affords the accused a wider resolution process, brings in more admins to review the incident | |||
| ::Indefinite blocks allow circumnavigation of the ban process. (Much like using a bot to circumnavigate protective measures) | |||
| --] (]) 01:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ---- | |||
| == General Discussion about the request == | |||
| <br /> | |||
| ===Frequently made arguments (A non question FAQ)=== | |||
| A self conversation using statements likely to be made | |||
| :Your request for comment was circumventing the block and could be grounds for banning. --SomeGuy | |||
| ::I'm already indefinitely blocked. (What more do I have to lose?) I've tried contacting the Admin with no response. I used contacting as a means to ensure the facts surrounding my arguments are correct and bring in more eyes. I've laid out banning as a possible course of action. --] (]) 08:35, 22 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ::Its not as serious as deleting the main page.--] (]) 08:35, 22 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :This not how unblock requests are handled. You should use the standard unblock request process.--SomeGuy | |||
| ::I had to use a request just to get information on why the block was changed to indefinite as I was not notified. Given the complicated events involving the Admin I needed to bring in technical individuals knowledgeable about the event, as I can't really afford to have someone skip over my arguments and quick decline my sole remaining request. --] (]) 08:35, 22 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> | |||
| ---- | |||
| ===This is a non-starter=== | |||
| As nearly as I'm able to figure out, you're saying you should be unblocked because the blocking admin, in a totally unrelated incident, made a bad judgment call that shot a bunch of stuff to hell. Besides being irrelevant to your block, this completely misinterprets the ] doctrine; even by your own quote: "Unclean hands, sometimes clean hands doctrine, is an equitable defense in which the defendant argues that the plaintiff is not entitled to obtain an equitable remedy on account of the fact that the plaintiff is acting unethically or has acted in bad faith ''with respect to the subject of the complaint''" (emphasis mine). That is entirely not the case here. If you want to be unblocked, I think you'd have much better odds if you showed some contrition for your use of bots to edit war. ] (]) 08:30, 22 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ==Botlist== | |||
| *] in development | |||
| *] in development | |||
| *] in development | |||
| *] in development | |||
| *] in development | |||
| *] in development | |||
| *] in development | |||
| == Blocked == | |||
| It goes without saying, but I"ve blocked you for completely disruptive and unacceptable edit warring. <font color="DarkGreen">]</font><sup>]</sup> 19:43, 1 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == President template $5/$50K, etc == | |||
| I'll check on what's going on and attempt closure. I see a longwinded item, but I have yet to read it. <br> -- ] (]) 02:58, 2 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Template discussion == | |||
| As an occasional editor to the discussion at ] your input would be appreciated at ]. Thank you.--]] 04:40, 20 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| {{unblock reviewed|1=Block was extended over 24 hours from its original expiration without due notice or stated reason|decline=You were using a malicious bot to edit war, and that's earned you a revocation of your editing privileges. ]}} | |||
| == IP blocked == | |||
| You attempted to block evade with ] (<span class="plainlinks">] '''·''' ] '''·''' ] '''·''' '''·''' ] '''·''' {{#ifexist:{{SITENAME}}:Requests for checkuser/Case/{{ucfirst:70.11.244.78}}| '''·''' ]}}</span>), who is now blocked for a month. | |||
| That is not acceptable behavior. Don't do it again. ] (]) 08:42, 22 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :Hello George, I'm going to refer to you as ] --] (]) 08:48, 22 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Assurances == | |||
| Assurances on your talk page would seem to be the way to go. ''] ]'', 08:49 ] ] (GMT). | |||
Latest revision as of 13:23, 12 October 2009
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