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			]
	== 3rd party material for use in Epirus and other ==

	latest finds

			== Maps ==
	----
	Quote:
	"these conclusions to the evidence of archaeology, the following picture emerges. The first Greek-speaking peoples settled in Macedonia, Thessaly, and Epirus after c. 2500, and in these areas they developed different dialects".
	'''A History of Greece to 322 B.C.by N. G. L. Hammond .ISBN-10: 0198730950,page 56,1986'''

			OK Megistias, I really don't understand why do you keep on pushing some ideas in your Illyrian related maps? We had discussion about it a long time ago and I can see some other people have criticized your work too in the meantime. Do you know that your map File:Illyrians.jpg is taken for a joke in some specialized history forums where many experts write.
	Quote:
	"the Thessaloi, led by Heracleidae, migrated from Thesprotia in southern Epirus to enter the south-western canton of Thessaly, which was thenceforth called Thessaliotis"
	'''A History of Greece to 322 B.C.by N. G. L. Hammond .ISBN-10: 0198730950,page 75,1986'''

			Why do you mark Liburni as Venetic people? There is no any evidence of that kind. There is only possibility that in the very northern Liburnia there was presence of Histri, who were close to Veneti (Veneti-like names). Why do you mark Iapodes as the Celts? Why do you spread wrong info about "Celticized Dalmatae"? Can you understand difference between: being a Celt/being Celtized/having material exchange with the Celts??? Are you aware that for this "Celtization" you use almost 90 years old theories about "Illyarian Hallstat", abandoned 60, 70 years ago?
	Quote:
	"... The original home of the Hellenes was ' Hellas', the area round Dodona in Epirus, according to Aristotle. In the Iliad it was the home of Achilles' Hellenes"

			Now I'm watching this map File:IllyrianWars.jpg. What is that? I'm shocked. What is that territory bordered by brown line (Demetrius of Pharos)? What is yellow territory (Teuta)? ] (]) 12:29, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
	'''A History of Greece to 322 B.C.by N. G. L. Hammond .ISBN-10: 0198730950,page 77,1986'''
			::Do you have some difficulty reading this for example?
			*Wilkes, J. J. The Illyrians, 1992,{{ISBN\|0631198075}},page 183,"We may begin with the Venetic peoples, Veneti, Carni, Histri and Liburni, whose language set them apart from the rest of the Illyrians"] (]) 19:09, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
			::I am shocked as well by your odd claiming that the Iranian ] had something to do with the Thracian ].And on a 3 years old discussion at that.] (]) 19:26, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
			::I ve made the maps simpler and more neutral regarding celt issues but i will work on them further when i can.] (]) 08:52, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

			I'll start discussion in Liburnian language, about this, Wilkes is certainly not top authority on the matter and using only his specualation (citation from his book often used by you is not a fact) produces imbalance in related articles. My idea is not edit warring or pushing one idea against the others. We should cooperate on this. ] (]) 10:17, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
	Quote:
			:About the Medes, well, actually there is possible connection. There's a large chance that the Medes contributted to ethnogenesis of the Illyrians, Thracians, Greeks in one episode of Indo-Europeanization in the Balkans. ] (]) 11:00, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
	"... Greek gods too, especially Zeus the sky-god, were at home on Mt. Olympus and in Pieria, and the Zeus of Dodona derived his importance from the Bronze Age when he displaced a Mother Goddess and assimilated her as Aphrodite, ' Similar ...""

			== User talk:Daesitiates ==
	'''A History of Greece to 322 B.C.by N. G. L. Hammond .ISBN-10: 0198730950,page 39,1986'''

			I am not sure you're helping matters at ]. The user is clearly upset about some activities by other users; you are possibly among them. Let's focus on the content rather than what someone's agenda may be. I think the content issue needs to be resolved on the page where the disagreement exists. <small><span style="padding:2px;border:1px solid #000000">] {{!}} ]</span></small> 15:18, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
	Quote:
			::ok, but he has never used the talk page and his edits are seen as inappropriate by other users as well. ] (]) 15:27, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
	"Speakers of these various Greek dialects settled different parts of Greece at different times during the Middle Bronze Age, with one group,
			:::I'm not making any judgment on his edits or whether or not others find them inappropriate. I told him that admin intervention is not appropriate and he needs to learn to find ] on the talk page of the article in question. That's a first step. If that is tried and it fails, there are other steps to follow in dispute resolution. <small><span style="padding:2px;border:1px solid #000000">] {{!}} ]</span></small> 15:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
	the "northwest" Greeks, developing their own dialect and peopling central Epirus. This was the origin of the Molossian or Epirotic tribes."

			Megistias,
	'''E.N.Borza "In the shadow of Olympus; The emergence of Macedon" (revised edition, 1992), page 62'''

			I am kindly inviting you to cooperate so we can find some compromise on the text entitled " Ardian", for none of my 16 friends could see what was wrong with my contributions ( enclosed below) to "Ardian" and why you removed them.
	Quote:
	"We have seen that the "Makedones" or "highlanders" of mountainous western Macedonia may have been derived from northwest Greek stock. That is, northwest Greece provided a pool of Indo-European speakers of proto-Greek from which emerged the tribes who were later known by
	different names as they established their regional identities in separate parts of the country. Thus the Macedonians may have been related to
	those peoples who at an earlier time migrated south to become the historical Dorians, and to other Pindus tribes who were the ancestors of the Epirotes or Molossians. If it were known that Macedonian was a proper dialect of Greek, like the dialects spoken by Dorians and
	Molossians, we would be on much firmer ground in this hypothesis."
	'''E.N.Borza "In the shadow of Olympus; The emergence of Macedon" (revised edition, 1992), page 78'''

			I am inviting you ti once again read my additions that you have been continuously deleting and realise that they have no political connotations nor do they offend, assault or undermine anyone in any way. I am too old for this son. I guess you could show some respect to people who are much older than you and people who have been dealing with these issues academically , doing their best to keep it at the academic level, with as little as possible political interferences.

			There are many people clled "Ardian" and when they want to show their parents, their children or their grandchildren the meaning of their name, the last thing they want to read is som epolitical background to that name, like" Thisi i sone of those imaginary Illyrian names imposed to Albanians by communist regime in Albanian". Communism vanished from Albania decades ago my son, and most Albanians (me being one) themselves prefer Ilylrian and Albanian national names. Nobody imposes that on us.
	Quote:
			I guess Albanians DO have a say about their own culture, right?
	"When Amyntas became king of the Macedonians sometime during the latter third of the sixth century, he controlled a territory that included the
	central Macedonian plain and its peripheral foothills, the Pierian coastal plain beneath Mt. Olympus, and perhaps the fertile, mountain-encircled
	plain of Almopia. To the south lay the Greeks of Thessaly. The western mountains were peopled by the Molossians (the western Greeks of Epirus), tribes of non-Argead Macedonians, and other populations."
	'''E.N.Borza "In the shadow of Olympus; The emergence of Macedon" (revised edition, 1992), page 98'''

			Why isn't there any Englishmen out there deleting contributions to some Celtic name? I'll tel you son, because he is civlized enough to understand that nationalism is a disease that needs to be cured.

			So for the sake of those civilized values, as a person much older than you, I kindly ask you to read again my contributions that you ar so much upset about (for reasons known only to you) and reaize that my contributions are in no way offending or undermining anyone, nor, most importantly, are they lacking reference.
	Quote:
	"As subjects of the king the Upper Macedonians were henceforth on the same footing as the original Macedonians, in that they could qualify for
	service in the King's Forces and thereby obtain the elite citizenship. At one bound the territory, the population and wealth of the kingdom were
	doubled. Moreover since the great majority of the new subjects were speakers of the West Greek dialect, the enlarged army was Greek-speaking throughout."

			Here are the contributions you deleted. Please, read them and tell me whcih parts you don't liek and why so we can find som ecompromise.
	'''NGL Hammond, "Philip of Macedon", Gerald Duckword & Ltd, London,
	1994'''

			Again, please bear in mind that the text "Ardian" , the way you left it on Misplaced Pages, DOES look indirectly discriminatory to Albanians, for two reasons:
	Quote:
	"Certainly the Thracians and the Illyrians were non-Greek speakers, but in the northwest, the peoples of Molossis {Epirot province}, Orestis
	and Lynkestis spoke West Greek. It is also accepted that the Macedonians spoke a dialect of Greek and although they absorbed other groups into their territory, they were essentially Greeks."
	'''
	Robert Morkot, "The Penguin Historical Atlas of Ancient Greece",
	Penguin Publ., 1996'''

			1. It uses the undermining languge " the imaginary Illyrian names",
	EPIRUS ("Hpeiros", Mainland)
			and
			2. It only emphasizes negative aspects of the history of that name ( "Illyrian names being imposed by communists", which dopes not affect the fact that Albnainas themselves prefer Ilylrian and Albanian national names. After all, they do not need to ask for someone's permission in order to do that, right?).

			"Original Illyrian names found in the literature, as well as names made up of Illyrian words and etymologies in general, are still among the most preferred personal names among modern Albanians today, along with names deriving from Albanian language, the Albanian national names like Bardh/Bardha, ('white', 'pure', 'fair'), Hyll ('star'), Bora ('snow'), Dita ('daylight'), Drita ('light', 'illumination'), Gonxhe ('rosebud'; first name of Mother Teresa), Lule ('flower'), Pellumb ('dove'), etc. Indeed, there are some obvious similarities between the supposed Illyrian words (names of persons, places and things) and Albanian ones, such as the name of Illyrian king Bardylis and Albanian word for white, 'bardh', the name of Illyrian king Hyllus and Albanian "(h)yll", for 'star', Illyrian deity Bindo and Albanian 'bind' ('convince', 'make believe'), and dozens more.
	North-west area of Greece, from Acroceraunian point to Nicopolis, with harbours at Buthrotum and Glycys Limen (at Acheron's mouth); bordered on south by gulf of Ambracia, and on east by Pindus range with pass via Metsovo to Thessaly.
			It also seems linguistically plausible to connect the name of Ardiaei with Latin "Ardea", meaning "Heron"A small town located in the area adjacent to Neretva river (which was precisely the original homeland of ancient Illyrian community of Ardiaei) is called Čapljina, deriving from "Čaplja", which in former Serbo-Croatian language (nowadays divided into Bosnian/Croatian/Montenegrin and Serbian) means precisely "Heron". This theory opens up many possibilities for the interpretation of the origin of this name, such as heron being present in significant numbers in that area since prehistory, and thus influencing the etymology, for example.However, this theory is challanged by the fact that the Ardiaei (although in a different form, Ardiaioi) were mentioned long before Romans conquered Illyrian lands, like, for example by Theopompus in the fourth century B.C., or in reference to their warfare agianst Phillip of Macedon, father of Alexander the Great. Vardiaei, one other variant of Ardiaei bears similarity with Greek word word ‘vardia’, meaning ‘watch/duty/shift’ (‘guard’ implicit), and if we allow for a possibility of Ardiaioi being some corrupt version (misspelling) of 'Vardaei', this may seem as a plausible explanation. However, further research is undoubtedly necessary in order to reach any tangible conclusion.

			There are some claims too, that in one of the ancient sources Ardiaioi was actually a mistaken emendation of Autariatae. This is however most likely to mean that the author had mistaken Autariatae for Ardiaioi, rather than implying that they are one and the same people, for the fact that Ardiaioi were mentioned repeatedly and separately from Autariatae in several different ancient sources, as mentioned above. Whatever the case, the fact is that Ardiaioi (the Greek version of Ardiaiei or Vardaei) were mentioned before Romans came to exert any influence, including the lingusitic one among Illyrians. This so far rules out the Latin etymology of Ardiaiei, based on Latin 'ardea', for 'heron'."
	Three limestone ranges parallel to the coast and the Pindus range enclose narrow valleys and plateaux with good pasture and extensive woods; alluvial plains were formed near Buthrotum, Glycys Limen, and Ambracia.

			All of them were well referenced, as you know.
	Epirus had a humid climate and cold winters. In terrain and in history it resembled Upper Macedonia.
	Known in the 'Iliad' only for the oracle of Dodona, and to Herodotus for the oracle of the dead at Ephyra, Epirus received Hellenic influence from the
	Elean colonies in Cassopaea and the Corinthian colonies at Ambracia and Corcyra, and the oracle of Dodona drew pilgrims from northern and central
	Greece especially.

			I frankly hope we will manage to find a compromising solution, although, as I said, NONE OF US HERE see what was wrong with the above addition that I made.
	Theopompus knew fourteen Epirote tribes, speakers of a strong west-Greek dialect, of which the Chaones held the plain of Buthrotum, the Thesproti the plain of Acheron, and the Molossi the plain of Dodona, which forms the highland centre of Epirus with an outlet southwards to Ambracia.
			(] (]) 15:53, 5 February 2010 (UTC))

			:How about creating a version of the article at ], complete with references, so it can be discussed there? (Or a suitably named page; I'm not certain which article you are trying to make these edits to.) And remember, this isn't about you and your friends; it's about ] <small><span style="padding:2px;border:1px solid #000000">] {{!}} ]</span></small> 16:03, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
	A strong Molossian state, which included some Thesprotian tribes, existed in the reign of Neoptolemos c.370-368 ("Arx.Ef".1956, 1ff). The unification of Epirus in a symmachy led by the Molossian king was finally achieved by Alexander, brother-in-law of Philip II of Macedon. His conquests in southern Italy and his alliance with Rome showed the potentialities of the Epirote Confederacy, but he was killed in 330 BC.

			Fair enough Frank, I will proceed with that instantly, although I might have to ask for your patientce if I am stuck somewhere in the process for, like I said, I am sure I am much older than many of you guys here and I may not be as skillfull with Misplaced Pages. Ok. I will propose my version on that page.
	Dynastic troubles weakened the Molossian state, until Pyrrhus removed his fellow king and embarked on his adventurous career.
			(] (]) 16:23, 5 February 2010 (UTC)). <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 16:20, 5 February 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			::You have never used the talk page for years.And your edits were unconstructive. You removed references among other things.] (]) 16:43, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

			megistias. I may have never used talk page, but like I said, I am decades older than most of you. Trust me, you can al lbe my children.in other words, i am not as skillful as you kids in wikipedia and computer skills in general.
	The most lasting of his achievements were the conquest of southern Illyria, the development of Ambracia as his capital, and the building of fortifications and theaters, especially the large one at Dodona.

	His successors suffered from wars with Aetolia, Macedon, and Illyria, until in c.232 BC the Molossian monarchy fell.

			"your edits were unconstructive". Excuse me young man, but isn't this statemen slightly overambitious? I would be truly grateful if aou enlgihtened me on how my edits were unconstructive.
	An Epirote League with a federal citizenship was then created, and the meetings of its council were held probably by rotation at Dodona or Passaron
			After all, how constructive is it to change the text on a national name making it look like a mere political criticism?
	in Molossis, at Gitana in Thesprotis, and at Phoenice in Chaonia.

			is there any positive word you said about that name in that particular text or anythin positive you said about Albanian culture. Out of so many references to Albanian names (and culture in generaly) you only imposed the negative one, the one obviously undermining Albanian culture by calling its names repertoire some communist construct imposed on people. Now, how constructive ( let alone unbiased) is that?
	It was soon involved in the wars between Rome and Macedon, and it split apart when the Molossian state alone supported Macedon and was sacked
	by the Romans in 167 BC, when 150,000 captives were deported.

			Image me going to some Greek name page and doing what you did on "Ardian"? Now, how fair would you consider that to be? I am sorry to say this, but you more than obviously have some serious unresolved issue in your attitude towards Albanian culture.
	Central Epirus never recovered; but northern Epirus prospered during the late republic, and Augustus celebrated his victory at Actium by founding a Roman colony at Nicopolis.

			Finaly, I would be grateful if you remind me when and how I remeove references. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 17:14, 5 February 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	Under the empire a coastal road and a road through the interior were built from north to south, and Buthrotum was a Roman colony.
			::Please, sign your comments and take some time to read wikipedia rules.] (]) 17:16, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

			This discussion is pointless. Let's focus on content moving forward. No need to look at the past; let's just get it right in the present. <small><span style="padding:2px;border:1px solid #000000">] {{!}} ]</span></small> 17:21, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
	Ancient remains testify to the great prosperity of Epirus in Hellenistic times.
	'''N.G.L.Hammond,
	"Oxford Classical Dictionary," 3rd ed. (1996), pp.546,547'''

	The Molossians were the strongest and, decisive for Macedonia, most easterly of the three most important Epeirot tribes, which, like Macedonia but unlike the Thesprotians and the Chaonians, still retained their monarchy. They were Greeks, spoke a similar dialect to that of Macedonia, suffered just as much from the depredations of the Illyrians and were in principle the natural partners of the Macedonian king who wished to tackle the Illyrian problem at its roots."
	'''Malcolm Errington, "A History of Macedonia", California University Press,
	1990.'''

			You're right Frank. I 'm sorry. I just flet I needed to tell the truth, but yes, let's move ahead now and see what we can do.
			I proposed my version on ] as you advised. I had a little problem though for I couldn't use the references in a normal way so I copied them at the bottom. i hope that's not the problem. I think what matters is the content.
			(] (]) 17:28, 5 February 2010 (UTC)).

			:Further comment belongs at ]. And remember: ] <small><span style="padding:2px;border:1px solid #000000">] {{!}} ]</span></small> 17:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
	Quote:
	The West Greek dialect group denotes the dialects spoken in: (i) the
	northwest Greek regions of Epeiros, Akarnania, Pthiotid Akhaia....
	'''
	Johnathan M. Hall, "Ethnic Identity in Greek Antiquity", Cambridge
	University Press, 1997'''

			== Discussion ==
	Quote:
	Alexander was King Philip's eldest legitimate child. His mother, Olympias,came from the ruling clan of the northwestern Greek region of Epirus.

			Your comments are '''not helpful''', and I've removed them. The purpose of that page is '''not''' to discuss the main article and whether or not the content is appropriate for the main article. The first things to be worked on are formatting, references, citation, removing original research, and all the basics. If we can't get past all of that, nothing can go into the main article space.
	'''David Sacks, "A Dictionary of the Ancient Greek World", Oxford, 1995'''

			If you read what I've written thus far, I've been saying let's work in a safe, ]-type area and get the content up to Misplaced Pages standards ''first''. After we get there, ''then'' we can talk about achieving some kind of consensus to put it in the article. If you (or anyone) start attacking the talk page of a sandbox work with reasons why the material can't get into a main space article, conflict will surely arise. Let's focus on proper writing, sourcing, and other policies first. Better yet - let ''me'' work on that with him. Thanks! <small><span style="padding:2px;border:1px solid #000000">] {{!}} ]</span></small> 19:52, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
	Quote:
			::i wont do anything to the sandbox but i redirected ardian to adrian name page that includes all such names.Clear and cut.Thats where the name derives from. ] (]) 20:05, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
	Epirus was a land of milk and animal products...The social unit was a small tribe, consisting of several nomadic or semi-nomadic groups, and these
			:::And I have undone that redirect from ]. The article contains content specific to the name ''Ardian''. There may be sourcing issues with the article itself, but that's not a reason to redirect it elsewhere. <small><span style="padding:2px;border:1px solid #000000">] {{!}} ]</span></small> 20:19, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
	tribes, of which more than seventy names are known, coalesced into large
	tribal coalitions, three in number: Thesprotians, Molossians and Chaonians...We know from the discovery of inscriptions that these tribes
	were speaking the Greek language (in a West-Greek dialect).

	'''NGL Hammond, "Philip of Macedon", Duckworth, London, 1994

			I hope I am following it up properly. I just want to say that I finally managed to resolve my referencing problem and I hope my proposed text at my user page:Daesitiates/Ardiaei is now ready for negotiations.
	the Satyres by Juvenal'''

			If I may just kindly ask, are the three of us supposed to negotiate the issue on this page (this one here belonging to megistias), my talk page (Daesitiates) or somewhere else? Please forgive my ignorance. I am ensuring you I am doing my best to learn on the go. Thanx for the patience.
	Quote:
	The molossians were the most powerfull people of Epirus, whose kings had extended their dominion over the whole country. They traced their descent back to Pyrrhus, son of Acchilles..
	'''Page 225'''

			--] (]) 20:45, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
			::Other than Frank gracioucly having the good will to guide you through article editing, and you following... i have to repeat that many of the things you suggest in the sandbox have been proposed by albanian editors over the years on many articles, and they did not go in.They are not encyclopedic, to put it politely.] (]) 20:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

			::Daesitiates - please stick to ] we are working in. That content is nowhere near ready to be reviewed by anyone for inclusion anywhere else. <small><span style="padding:2px;border:1px solid #000000">] {{!}} ]</span></small> 21:16, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
	----------------------------------------------------

			:Megistias - perhaps you can take a look at ] to READ only, please without commenting. I think you'll find we're peeling back the layers a bit and we will eventually be able to get to the content. I don't want to predict how things will turn out, but I hope you will watch as things progress.
	'''"The Cambridge Ancient History - The Expansion of the Greek World, Eighth to Sixth Centuries B.C., Part 3: Volume 3" by P Mack Crew'''

			:If I may say, your approach doesn't look to be so inspiring either; if you're going to call into question another editor's actions, especially when it's clear you already don't agree...it's usually not going to wind up in a good result. To be specific, it really doesn't help when you tell someone that "many of the things you suggest...have been proposed...and did not go in." This is going to inspire someone to argue, not to work with you to achieve consensus. And I would point out that if there is to be any peaceful editing and avoidance of edit warring, page protection, topic bans, and maybe even blocks, ''both'' sides are going to have to learn to find something to agree on. Consensus isn't about getting someone else blocked or banned. It's about finding something acceptable enough to both sides that they'll both leave it in even if neither thinks it is the 100% "right" way to word it. We certainly still need verifiable citations from reliable sources. That's not in question. But there comes a point where we have to understand that the best result possible may be based on consensus rather than full agreement from every party.
	Quote:
	That the molossians, who were immediately adjacent to the Dodonaeans in the time of Hecataeus but engulfed them soon afterwards, spoke Illyrian or another barbaric tongue was nowhere suggested, although Aeschylus and Pindar wrote of Molossian lands. That they in fact spoke greek was implied by Herodotus' inclusion of Molossi among the greek colonists of Asia minor, but became demonstranable only when D. Evangelides published two long inscriptions of the Molossian State, set up p. 369 B.C at Dodona, in Greek and with Greek names, Greek patronymies and Greek tribal names such as Celaethi, Omphales, Tripolitae, Triphylae, etc. As the Molossian cluster of tribes in the time of Hecataeus included the Orestae, Pelagones, Lyncestae, Tymphaei and Elimeotae,as we have argued above, we may be confindent that they too were Greek-speaking;
	Quote:
	Inscriptional evidence of the Chaones is lacking until the Hellinistic period; but Ps-Scylax, describing the situation of c. 380-360 put the Southern limit of the Illyrians just north of the Chaones, which indicates that the Chaones did not speak Illyrian, and the acceptance of the Chaones into the Epirote alliance in the 330s suggest strongly that they were Greek-speaking
	'''Page 284'''

			:Hopefully we can start achieving good results all around. <small><span style="padding:2px;border:1px solid #000000">] {{!}} ]</span></small> 03:41, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
	'''"The Cambridge Ancient History: Volume 6, the Fourth Century BC" by D M Lewis, Martin Ostwald, Simon Hornblower, John Boardman'''
			::I am not going to comment on the sandbox, but i have yet to find a single reference on which to base a reason to consider Ardian anything else other than a variant of Adrian.] (]) 11:28, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

			:::That is not the purpose of that sandbox exercise. The purpose is to understand how to edit, how to find sources, how to write an article, and how to discuss issues. Whether or not Ardian is anything more or less than a variant of Adrian is really quite beside the point. Eventually we will get to that. <small><span style="padding:2px;border:1px solid #000000">] {{!}} ]</span></small> 11:41, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
	Quote:
	however, in central Epirus the only fortified places were in the plain of Ioannina, the centre of the Molossian state. Thus the North-west Greek-speaking tribes were at a half-way stage economically and politically, retaining the vigour of a tribal society and reaching out in a typically Greek manner towards a larger political organization.
	Quote:
	In 322 B.C when Antipater banished banished the anti-Macedonian leaders of the Greek states to live 'beyond the Ceraunian Mountains' (plut. Phoc. 29.3) he regarded Epirus as an integral part of the Greek-speaking mainland.
	'''Page 443'''

			==Beograd Atlas of 1970==
	Quote:
			Since you have been involved in Ilyrian related topics I have recently found these pictures, you might be interested to check: ] ].] (]) 20:57, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
	The chaones as we will see were a group of Greek-speaking tribes, and the Dexari, or as they were called later the Dassarete, were the most northernly member of the group.
			::Wow, suddenly albanians appeared 500+ years before they actually did, Byzantine Greeks are gone and non-Greek populations somehow have "absolute homogeny", and have have over all the region.] (]) 22:38, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
	'''Page 423'''

			==Albanian name==
	'''A New Classical Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography, Mythology and Geography" by William Smith'''

			:Your edits in Albanian (name) are ridiculuous, Arba and Olbonenses have nothing to do with Albanian name. Position of Olbonenses is unkown, some scientists think that Olbonenses were Aluatae - citizens of Alvona, so Olbona would be error in writing or distorted toponym. And both Alvona and Arba were in the north of Liburnia, where Histri, Iapodes and Liburnians were mixing - a region historically and geographically not linked to Albania and Albanians. It is like to say that name of Bangkok came from "bannana". Or from sound produced by John Wayne's gun: "bang". ;P ] (]) 13:43, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
	Quote:
			::I know they dont, since you are certain please remove it. ] (]) 13:46, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
	Molossi (Μολοσσοί), a people in Epirus, who inhabited a narrow slip of country, called after them Molossia (Μολοσσία) or Molossis, which extended from the Aous, along the western bank of the Arachthus, as far as the Ambracian Gulf. The Molossi were Greek people, who claimed descent from Molossus, the son of Pyrrhus (Neoptolemus) and Andromache, and are said to have emigrated from Thessaly into Epirus, under the guidance of Pyrrhus himself. In their new abodes they intermingled with the original inhabitants of the land and with the neighbouring illyrian tribes of which they were regarded by the other Greeks as half barbarians. They were, however, by far the most powerful people in Epirus, and their kings gradually extended their dominion over the whole of the country. The first of their kings, who took the title of King of Epirus, was Alexander, who perished in Italy B.C. 326. The ancient capital of the Molossi was Pasaron,but Ambracia afterward became their chief town, and the residence of their kings. The Molossian hounds were celebrated in antiquity, and were much prized for hunting.
			::Olbonenses are not even mentiond in that article. What are you talking about?] (]) 13:53, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

			ha? you're right, sorry. ] (]) 14:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
	That they were related to the North-West Dialects (of Phocis, Locris, Aetolia, Acarnania and Epirus) was not perceived clearly by the ancients
	'''History of the Language Sciences: I. Approaches to Gender II. Manifestations
	By Sylvain Auroux, page 439'''

			Maps... I will, I've already signed myself in Commons, one of these days I'll remove them there and upload a few new ones. At the moment I'm working some other maps too, Dalmatae, Dalmatae Tariotes, Iapodes, Roman Dalmatia, Iron Age burial tradition in the Western Balkans,... ] (]) 14:25, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

			== Reverted you in Shkoder ==
	Quote:
	the western greek people (with affinities to the Epirotic tribes) in Orestis, Lyncus, and parts of Pelagonia;
	'''"In the shadow of Olympus.." By Eugene Borza, page 74'''

			Please see this revert I made to your contribution to ]. Hope that's ok. ]--Sulmues 18:38, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
			::The very next sentence says the same thing, only better.] (]) 19:43, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

			== Hyllus ==
	Quote:
	Pyrrhus, king of Epirus, was himself simply a military adventurer. He was none the less a soldier of fortune that he traced back his pedigree to Aeacus and Achilles
	Quote:
	He has been compared to Alexander of Macedonia; and certainly the idea of founding a Hellenic empire of the west--which would have had as its core Epirus, Magna Graecia, and Sicily, would have commanded both the Italian seas, and would have reduced Rome and Carthage to the rank of barbarian peoples bordering on the Hellenistic state-system,like the Celts and the Indians--was analogous in greatness and boldness to the idea which led the Macedonian king over the Hellespont.

			Maybe you can help. Except ] in Greek mythology and ], there was also '''Hyllus Peninsula''' at the eastern Adriatic coast. See ]. This toponym was recorded in the ancient Greek sources. Can you find some data, like citations,... ] (]) 09:11, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
	Quote:
			::
	he was the first Greek that met the Romans in battle. With him began those direct relations between Rome and Hellas, on which the whole subsequent development of ancient, and an essential part of modern, civilization are based.
			*Well, i found Pliny,Naturalis Historia,'' Liburniae finis et initium Delmatiae Scardona in amne eo XII passuum a mari. dein Tariotarum antiqua regio et castellum Tariona, promunturium Dio-medis vel, ut alii, '''paeninsula Hyllis''' circuitu C, Tragurium civium Romanorum, marmore notum, Siculi, in quem locum Divus Claudius veteranos misit, Salona colonia ab Iader CXII. petunt in eam iura viribus discriptis in de...''
	Quote:
			*Nothing yet on ancient greek texts.Will keep on looking.Could it be that an greek mentions this in a latin language text?
	this struggle between Rome and Hellenism was first fought out in the battles between Pyrrhus and the Roman generals;
			] (]) 11:37, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
	Quote:
	But while the Greeks were beaten in the battlefield as well as in the senate-hall, their superiority was none the less decided on every other field of rivalry than that of politics; and these very struggles already betokened that the victory of Rome over the Hellenes would be different from her victories over Gauls and Phoenicians, and that the charm of Aphrodite only begins to work when the lance is broken and the helmet and shield are laid aside.
	'''Theodor Mommsen History of Rome, From the Abolition of the Monarchy in Rome to the Union of Italy, The Historical Position Of Pyrrhus'''

			I doubt, I have some sources which mention ancient Greek sources exclusively, in my understanding those from Hellenistic era. Pliny the Elder and other Latin writers knew about this name. However, it seems that in the Greek scholarship there were some unsuccesful attempts to attach this toponym to Pelloponesus or some other peninsula in Greece. I'm thinking about new article: ], so any data would be nice. BTW this is probably from where originally Hylleis arrived to Greece during the Dorian invasion. ] (]) 12:17, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
			::Which Hellenistic writers? Maybe they write the name in a slightly different manner, a variance, thats why its no popping up so prominentely.But then there are some writers from that era that are obscure and hard to find. Got any names?] (]) 12:39, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

			What I have is this: , text is in both Croatian and English, check ref note no. 2. ] (]) 12:47, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
	Quote:
			::] 6th century AD, writes of the myth but adds in the bottom, though part of the text is not saved, "''Υπερ δε τους Υλλους Λιβυρνοι και τινες Ιστροι λεγομενοι Θρακες. Και το θυληκον '''Υλλις προκειτα χερρονησος''' ηλικη. Μαλιστα Πελοποννησος, ως φασι'' …."
	That the molossians, who were immediately adjacent to the Dodonaeans in the time of Hecataeus but engulfed them soon afterwards, spoke Illyrian or another barbaric tongue was NOWHERE suggested, although Aeschylus and Pindar wrote of Molossian lands. That they in fact spoke greek was implied by Herodotus' inclusion of Molossi among the greek colonists of Asia minor, but became demonstranable only when D. Evangelides published two long inscriptions of the Molossian State, set up p. 369 B.C at Dodona, in Greek and with Greek names, Greek patronymies and Greek tribal names such as Celaethi, Omphales, Tripolitae, Triphylae, etc. As the Molossian cluster of tribes in the time of Hecataeus included the Orestae, Pelagones, Lyncestae, Tymphaei and Elimeotae,as we have argued above, we may be confindent that they too were Greek-speaking;
			*Something like they are above the Liburni, and then of Istri that are called Thracians. And then '''Yllis chersonese''', like a female. In the end he says that it looks like Pelloponesus but then the text is gone no more elaborating. Then he goes on on blah blah.] (]) 12:54, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
			::Ok from your link, it says ''"through the middle of the peninsula which Roman sources called Hyllus''" so we know that Latin texts will most likely be using this term for it.And the reference inside it goes "''According to an ancient Greek legend or, more precisely, propaganda, the Hyllus Peninsula was slightly smaller than the Peloponnese and there were 15 cities on it inhabited by barbarized Greek Hyllini, the descendents of Herakles’ son Hyllus (Suić 1955: 132-133; Katičić 1995: 91-98, 387-398; Mastrocinque 1996: 359-361; Čače 1995-96: 21-45).''"
			*This is most likely from ]. The Herakles myth and some non-mythic data that a place with a similar sounding name existed.] (]) 13:01, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
			::Ok, the data from your link is Pliny + Stephanus as after the missing text he writes what the pdf-reference writes.] (]) 13:06, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
			::Also, the only parallel data from Stephanus seems to come from ''De prosodia catholica'', by Pseudo-] 180-250,. It seems as if Stephanus had copied the exact data that Pseudo-] provided.
			*But i want to verify this more to be certain.] (]) 13:14, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
			::Its the same, Stephanus copied from Herodianus.See also ] (]) 13:19, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
			Tnx :) ] (]) 13:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

			== Liburnians ==
	Inscriptional evidence of the Chaones is lacking until the Hellinistic period; but Ps-Scylax, describing the situation of c. 380-360 put the Southern limit of the Illyrians just north of the Chaones, which indicates that the Chaones did not speak Illyrian, and the acceptance of the Chaones into the Epirote alliance in the 330s suggest strongly that they were Greek-speaking.
	'''"The Cambridge Ancient History - The Expansion of the Greek World, Eighth to Sixth Centuries B.C., Part 3: Volume 3" by P Mack Crew ,page 284.'''

			Megistias what are you doing? After you have completely destroyed almost every Illyrian related article, now you keep on doing your special mission here too? You stupid arrogant little shit!!! Please report me!!!!! ] (]) 07:19, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
			:There is no need to report this editor, they have now reported themselves and I have blocked them for a week for disruption. I have no idea what this conflict is all about, but please don't rise to the bait. Thanks. - ] (formerly ]) <sup>]</sup> 10:47, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

			I will check them the following days. Nice job by the way] (]) 08:38, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
	Quote:
	The Epirotes, who may fairly be considered as Greeks by blood, long maintained a rugged independence under native chiefs, who were little more than leaders in war.
	'''A Manual of Greek Antiquities
	Book by Percy Gardner, Frank Byron Jevons; Charles Scribner's Sons, 1895, page 8'''] (]) 21:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

			== Names on 1854 map ==

			No problem: The wanting names on that map are Zidon, Zoar, Arpad, Aram, Arphachsad, Mash, Carchemish, Calneh in the first area. There's one name in Canaan I can't make out, possibly Cheth. The word (Armenians) in parentheses is under Togharma. (Medians) should also be in parentheses. In the Sinai, you've got Ludim, Amalek, Edom, Midian and Sinim. Note that most of these are now thought to have been located outside of the Sinai peninsula. Cheers, ] (]) 18:14, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
	== On Albanian claims regarding illyria,pelasgians and others ==
			:Oh yeah, there's another area near the Caspian with the names: Kaspian, Kur R., Araxes R. ] (]) 18:23, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

	Here are some quotes from famous Albanian historians;

			Great job on the map! I do like the green version, though. Cheers, ] (]) 16:54, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
	Quote:
	"(Dr Kaplan Resuli-Albanologist, academic and Albanian historian):

			==Origin of Albanians==
	When the Albanians arrive on the Balkan and today's Albania, there is nothing else they can do except to take those toponyms. A large part of Albania is flooded with Serbian toponyms. Just as an example, I wish to mention the towns of Pogradec, Kor?a (Korcha), (Chorovoda), Berat, Bozigrad, Leskovik, Voskopoja, Kuzova, Kelcira, Bels and others.

			I have continued this debates you began on the Origin of ROmanians talk page with Pannonia. Please feel free to comment ] (]) 22:46, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
	Quote:
	"(Dr Kaplan Resuli-Albanologist, academic and Albanian historian):

			:Yep. Its a shame the way Pannonian is carrying on. He accuses me being biased by my personal beliefs on Kosovo, which is rediculous. I think he has taken a personal offence because I agreed with you that his maps are anachronistic, and that his source Atlas of World History is hardly awe-inspiring. I am currently reading ''Epirus Vetus. Archaeology of a Late Antique Province'' by Bowden. I think its a very good piece of work ] (]) 04:52, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

			== The purpose of ] ==
	After him followed the Albanian scholar Dr. Adrian Qosi who in the middle of Tirana openly opposed the hypothesis about the Illyrian origin of the Albanians. With me agreed, via the printed media, several other younger scholars of whom I would especially mention Fatos Lubonja, Prof. Adrian Vebiu and others."
	Quote:
	About the Albanians, Wilkes writes "NOT MUCH RELIANCE SHOULD PERHAPS BE PLACED ON ATTEMPTS TO IDENTIFY AN ILLYRIAN ANTHROPOLOGICAL TYPE AS SHORT AND DARK SKINNED SIMMILAR TO MODERN ALBANIANS."

			Hi. I noticed that you have made a few hasty reports to ] today. Please remember, frivolous complaints and unsubstantiated requests for administrator intervention '''do not belong there'''. Please do not clutter that page with accusations or side-discussions within a discussion. '''Before posting a grievance about a user there, please discuss the issue with them on their user talk page.''' The reports you filed today belonged on a different page, to which the following is a guide:
	Wilkes was proven CORRECT by science when the Human Genome Project's Y-chromosome study of European populations, confirmed that the vast majority of contemporary Albanians do not share an Illyrian or any Indo-European lineage.
			* To report persistent '''vandalism''' or '''spamming''', see ].
	Quote:
			* To report ''']''' with other editors, see ].
	That's the way it is with our culture, which is mythomaniac, national-communist, romantic, self-glorifying. You can't say anything objective without people getting angry. The Albanians are a people who still dream. That is what they are like in their conversations, their literature...In light of Hoxha and 'pyramid schemes, Albanians are a people who still dream. That's just the way they are..."
			* To report improper '''deletion''' or request '''undeletion''', see ].
	Fatos Lubojia - Albanian historian
			* To report improper '''usernames''', see ].
	Quote:
			* To request '''page ]''', see ].
	Albanian scholar Dr. Adrian Qosi writes:
			* To report '''edit warring''', see ].
	I can say that today appear a group of new Albanian scholars who do not agree with the false myths (About Illyrian & Epirote descent) and courageously accept the scientific truth that they are not whatsoever connected to these ancient peoples. I am proud that I lead this group and that they took up from me the necessary scholarly courage."
			* To report '''long time edit warring/abuse''', see ].
			* To report '''suspected sockpuppetry''', see ].
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			* For evasion of ''']''', abuse of ''']''', or other '''incidents''', see ] (''']''')
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			* To get assistance in resolving disputes, please see ''']'''.
			Please ensure that if you file a report at any of those pages that you both '''read and follow all instructions''' listed in the respective header, as different noticeboards can have different requirements. Also, please observe that you '''must notify''' any user(s) about which you initiate a discussion ]. You may use place <span style="font-family:monospace;"><nowiki>{{</nowiki>]<tt>:</tt>]<nowiki>}}</nowiki></span><!-- {{tlsx\|ANI-notice}} --> on their user talk page to do so. Thank you. ] <small>(] ] ] ])</small> 22:46, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

			::Thats alot of stuff :)] (]) 00:46, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
	Quote:
			:::Yup! But super handy. It's always good to know where you can go to get the quickest, most effective resolution. Cheers! ] <small>(] ] ] ])</small> 02:29, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
	Ardian Vebiu
	Famous Albanian historian writes:

			== ] ==
	My personal opinion is that the issue of Albanians descending or not from Illyrians doesn't deserve the interest it has traditionally aroused. There is absolutely NO Illyrian cultural legacy among Albanians today. In a certain sense, Illyrians (with their less fortunate fellows, the Pelasgians) are a pure creation of Albanian romanticism. ] (]) 21:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

			Please do not continue reverting back and forth; rather, discuss this civilly on the talk page of that article. Thank you. ] <small>''<span style="color:#AAAAAA">(formerly garden)''</span></small> 12:00, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
	You are merely offering pseudoscience again and simply rejecting anciens and modern scientists that dont fit current dogma of Pelasgian-Albanians and the rest of Ancient Greek history.Preseverence is not evidence nor will it ever become one.Also Illyrians came to the area from haalstat at 1000-1300 bc and found the Greeks who were already there since 2000 bc at least.Pelasgians are in a way early Aegean cultures and have nothing to do with Illyrians who came millenia later.Science moves on and so should you.] (]) 11:07, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

			::I have, ] , ] (]) 12:11, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
	Mr Aigest.I dont care about dna or racial theories.I my self have arvanite ancestors but i dont adopt irrational albanian/arvanite(kollias) theories that were born from italian fascists continued by the communist regime and supported even now from the current political forces in albania.It has a negative impact on albanians anyway and makes albanians seem backward.] (]) 19:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

	== ~~COnstructed~~ ~~illyrian~~ ~~names~~ in ~~Albania~~ ==		== You have a response in my talk page. ==
	'''The articles on albania and illyrians related history should all mention that names were constructed and added.'''
	They were added during the communist era and thats why they are unacceptable by historians.

			Regards. --] (]) 20:07, 1 March 2010 (UTC)
	On the Albanian Claim that they have Illyrian names today

			== Your request at RPP ==
	ISBN 960-210-279-9 Miranda Vickers, The Albanians Chapter 9. "Albania Isolates itself" page 196 it is stated

			Hi there! Just to let yuo know, I've declined your protection request for now, you can find my reasons at ].
	From time to time official lists were published with pagan, so-called Illyrian or freshly minted names considered appropriate for the new breed of revolutionary Albanians.(see also Also Logoreci "the Albanians" page 157.

			Just to let you know, for future reference, that you should put new requests at the top of the list, as that's where admins will look for it. When the list is short like it is today, it doesn't make much difference, but it can sometimes get to 20 or more requests waiting action, and ones at the bottom may well get missed. Cheers! ]] 12:31, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
	== Illyrian issues ==

			::Thankou] (]) 13:46, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
	Albanians and Illyrians = No.Slavs and Vlachs=YEs

			== Albania TF ==
	"The Illyrians, like the Celts and Thracians, dissolved in the sea of latter conquerors, simply for the reason that during the long period of Roman rule they had lost their native culture and were unable to utilize their language to a political life of their own...We first learn of Albanians in their native land as the Arbanites of Arbanon in Anna Comnena's (Alexiad 4)."

			Could you please respond ]? --] (]) 23:43, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
	John Wilkes, "The Illyrians", Blackwell Publishers, Cambridge, 1992

			::No, after this insult of yours , of course not :) ] (]) 23:52, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
	John Wilkes: "The Illyrians", Oxford Press, 1996:

			:::It's not about me! You deserve to stand there, because you have written all the Albanian related articles. --] (]) 01:33, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
	(1) "..A separate group of Illyrians identified by renowned historian Geza Alfoldy: he identifies 'Pannonian peoples' in Bosnia, northern Montenegro and western Serbia ". p.75

			::::And please display this {{Veteran Editor II Userbox}} as you are a Grand Tutnum now. You deserve it! --] (]) 06:00, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
	(2) "Not much reliance should perhaps be placed on attempts to identify an Illyrian anthropological type as short and dark-skinned similar to moderAlbanians." p.219

			== March 2010 ==
	(3) "...a documented description of Illyrians, Pannonian family: - Pannonians are tall and strong, always ready for a fight and to face dangerous but slow-witted." p.219
			<div class="user-block"> ] You have been ''']''' from editing for a period of '''24 hours''' for '''] on ], , , , '''. Please stop. You are welcome to ] after the block expires. If you believe this block is unjustified you may ] by adding the text <!-- Copy the text as it appears on your page, not as it appears in this edit area. Do not include the "tlx" argument. -->{{tlx\|unblock\|Your reason here}} below, but you should read our ] first. ] <sup>]</sup> 10:55, 6 March 2010 (UTC)</div><!-- Template:uw-block2 -->
			{{unblock reviewed\|1=See the article talk page\|decline="See talk page" does not address the reason for your block. This incident was originally raised at ] and then moved to ] for action. ] is clear in this regard, and protection of thr article for only 24 hrs is a minimum requirement at this time (]<span style="border:1px solid black;">''' ] '''</span>]) 12:12, 6 March 2010 (UTC)}}
			{{unblock reviewed\|1=That was raised at originally raised at WP:ANI by me and then to be moved to WP:3RR for action for '''User Sulmues''', by me, not for me.\|decline=I am declining your request for unblock because it does not address the reason for your block, or because it is inadequate for other reasons. To be unblocked, you must convince the reviewing administrator(s) that
			*the block is not necessary to prevent damage or disruption to Misplaced Pages, <u>or</u>
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			Please read our ] for more information. You were blocked for edit warring, it doesn't matter who reported who, you were edit warring. ]<sup>]</sup> (]) 12:41, 6 March 2010 (UTC)}}
	(4) "Life has always been hard in the Illyrian lands and countless wars of resistance against invadors are testimony to the durability of their populations." p.220

			{{unblock reviewed\|1=Sorry i forgot myself and changed the article within too little time. But the talk page was used and still is on the issue.\|decline=It's good that you've acknowledged your edit warring; please sit out the rest of your block and contribute constructively when you return. ]''']''' 14:28, 6 March 2010 (UTC)}}
	(5) "In sum, the destructive impact on the earlier generalizations regarding Illyrians should be regarded as a step forward." p.40

			== Himara and Vasil Bollano==

			I am going to ask for a neutral person to settle this. You must work for the Greek government to have all the time in the world to revert to nonsense. '''I posted their names from the 16th century and you remove them? Why?''' How are they not relevant?
	----
			] (]) 17:34, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
	Modern countries on Illyrian soil

	The following modern countries are on illyrian soil so they take part in the illyrian "heritage".They must be included in all Illyrian projects and since Wilkes points out that among Slavs and the Vlach population of the Areas true illyrian ancestors are found they must be posted and Quoted.This Albanian exclusiveness is arbitrary and irrelevant as most of illyria is part of other countries and other peoples have such ancestors.

			::Yes ask a neutral person, thats a good solution. Just dont remove sources. The rest of your accusation or claim against me is .....] (]) 17:36, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
	ALBANIA (about half of albania)
	MONTENEGRO
	SERBIA
	CROATIA
	BOSNIA & HERSEGOVINA
	SLOVENIA
	HUNGARY

			== Vjosa common female name in Albanian: source is edit-warred ==
	== Pelasgians ==

			Hi there! You might want to be interested in seeing ], because you are involved. --] (]) 11:00, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
	<p>
	Herodotus, The Histories (ed. A. D. Godley)

			== Result of the 3RR case ==
	LVI. When he heard these verses, Croesus was pleased with them above all, for he thought that a mule would never be king of the Medes instead of a man, and therefore that he and his posterity would never lose his empire. Then he sought very carefully to discover who the mightiest of the Greeks were, whom he should make his friends. He found by inquiry that the chief peoples were the Lacedaemonians among those of Doric, and the Athenians among those of Ionic stock. These races, Ionian and Dorian, were the foremost in ancient time, the first a Pelasgian and the second a Hellenic people. The Pelasgian race has never yet left its home; the Hellenic has wandered often and far. For in the days of king Deucalion1 it inhabited the land of Phthia, then the country called Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus, in the time of Dorus son of Hellen; driven from this Histiaean country by the Cadmeans, it settled about Pindus in the territory called Macedonian; from there again it migrated to Dryopia, and at last came from Dryopia into the Peloponnese, where it took the name of Dorian.2
	<p>I see in the above Greeks and no Illyrians or Albanians.] (]) 12:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

			Please see the result of ], a 3RR case which you filed about the ] article. Both you and PANONIAN are edit warring. Try to get an outside view before you revert again. Sanctions are possible otherwise. ] (]) 01:36, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
	Also see;Dionysus of Halikarnassos "Roman Antiquities" 1.17.2.1

			== Rv you ==
	καὶ τὸ τῶν Πελασγῶν γένος Ἑλληνικὸν ἐκ Πελοποννήσου

			I reverted you on ]. You claim too much there without any sources. --] (]) 11:54, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
	translation:

	for the Pelasgians, too, were a Hellenic race originally from the Peloponnesus.No illyrians or Albanians again] (]) 12:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

	== ~~Adding~~ ~~images to pages~~ ==		== Albanian nationalism ==
			Did you revert me as IP on that article?--] <sup>]</sup> 11:15, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

			I am not a "sock" account and could you answer my question?--] <sup>]</sup> 11:24, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
	::I uploaded a new version.Any suggestions on further improvements?I equalised the fonts of the tribes.There is alot of them.] (]) 14:06, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

			== Sources ==
	== MACEDONS NOT HELLENISED BUT GREEKS FROM THE START ==

			Megistias, when you add a statement like , it is crucial to cite your sources... but you must also make sure that the sources actually say what you claim they do.
	:Stella Myller-Collet "Greek culture dominant in Macedonia prior to 7th ca"
	On February 11th 1993, Stella Myller-Collet (Ph.D-Bryn Mawr), visited the Pennsylvania State University, invited by the Central Pennsylvania Society of the Archaeological Institute of America.

			By consulting Google Books, we learn that Robert Elsie's book does not say anything remotely like the statement you attribute to him; there is ''one'' mention of the phrase 'romantic nationalism', in a context referring to a pre-existing cult. I have also searched Elsie's text for the phrases 'invented', 'invention', 'fictitious', 'fictional', 'fiction', 'spurious', 'fraud', 'defrauded', 'false', 'fake', and 'forgery', to no avail; 'constructed' does appear, but only in an architectural context.

			While I understand your patriotic desires and cultural pride, I must remind you of the importance of intellectual honesty. ] (]) 13:35, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
	Her topic was: "Tombs and Treasures: New Discoveries in Macedonia". The president of the Society Dr.Eugene Borza introduced the speaker to the audience praising the 20-years-contribution of "the acknowledged authority on Macedonian tombs."

			::That refers to the start of ''Rilindija period'' of romantic nationalism and further on. ] (]) 09:28, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
	Stella Myller-Collet has also participated in the excavations carried in Corinth, Athens, Nemea, Troy, Grasshopper Arizona, etc. Her University appointments include: the Stanford University, the University of California at Berkeley, the American School of Classical studies in Athens, the University of Cincinnati.

			*Also i get disconnected all the time due to my router and i can't edit, log on or even browse around.

			That isn't related to what you were trying to add, in fact that has nothing to do with Albanian mythology.--] <sup>]</sup> 09:31, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
	The new archaeological findings from Macedonia, according to this archaeologist prove once again something that Stella Myller-Collet always maintains: "Archaeology is the Laboratory of History".

			== Reverted you ==
	The most recent evidence that she and her colleagues brought to light show very clearly that certain Athenian sources were either wrong or simply trying to present the Macedonians as a backward people - merely for
	political propaganda.

			I reverted your edits . You may be right about other names, but not ], which has been around since ] time. --] ] ] 23:19, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
	The life in Macedonia does not seem to justify the well-known derogatory Athenian characterizations. Thus, these 4th-century testimonies originating in Athens,the rival of Macedonia, should be discounted a great deal (particularly the descriptions of the culture and people in ancient Macedonia made by the orator Demosthenes).

			== Reported ==
			You were reported here.--] <sup>]</sup> 12:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

			When I wrote my initial comments in the spi I didn't checked your userpage, in which you inform about the 'log out problems'. Personally, I've changed 4 routers recently.] (]) 20:20, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
	These resent archaeological findings indicate that there is an unbroken continuation of the Mycenaean tradition in Pieria, Imathia and Bottiaia, with mild influences from the south (Greece Proper and islands) and
	the east (Ionia and probably Thrace). The latter could also be faciliated by the Greek colonies of Chalkidiki (after the 8th century B.C.E.) or the available Macedonian ports on the Thermaic golf (and Dr.Borza indicated Thermai). All this is clearly much earlier than the reigns of Alexander I or Archelaos I

			== Dardani ==
	'''These two kings, according to a theory and tradition, attempted "to Hellenize their kingdom". The archaeological evidence though clearly disprove this theory, according to the speaker. The Hellenic culture did not need to be introduced in there, for it was already dominant in the ancient kingdom certainly before the 7th ce B.C.E.'''

			Citing from the book you use as a reference : '''''The dynasty which buried their kings and queens at Radoliste was certainly that of Encheleae''', whom Hecateus mentioned at that time. It must have been on good terms with '''its richer neighbor,''' since Radoliste and Trebeniste are only some ten kilometres apart. A corrupt passage in Strabo which was probably derived from Hecateus, may help us; for it seems to record the combination of the "Peresadyes" and the Encheleae to create a powerful state. If so, '''the Peresadyes was the name of the dynasty at Trebeniste.''' The name suggest they were Thracians.......'''The areas to the north and to the west of the lakeland differed from it in an important respect, the practice of tumulus-burial.'''..The largest concentrations of tumuli, often numbering several hundred, were in areas attributable to specific Illyrian tribes: in the Mati valley, home of some Taulantian tribes; in Zadrima plain, belonging probably to the Grabaei; in Scodra region, home of Labeatae, in the valley of Black Drin, where Chelidonii lived. '''The burials''' were those of warrior rulers and their women, and the weapons and the ornaments buried with them '''were related''' not only to each other but '''to those in the tumulus-burials of Metohija and Kosovo, home of the Dardani''', and of central Yugoslavia, where a distinctive Illyrian culture has been call the '''Glasinac culture'''.''
	The discussion continued with even more photographs and a report from the excavations in the sites of Sindos and Dion, which brought us down to the Hellenistic and Roman era.

			So the reference is clear about
	by Andronikos Romanos, 1993] (]) 11:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
			#There were two different dynasties at that time
			#The dynasty in Radoliste was that of Encheleae
			#Encheleae were the neighbours of Peresadyes
			#The dynasty in Trebeniste was that of Peresadyes
			#At some time they could (corrupt passage) have joined together
			#Their burial practice were different of other Illyrians
			#They are not related to Dardani whatsoever
			#Dardani are related to other Illyrians

			No complain about Peresadyes being a thracian tribe, but the reference is talking about precisely about Encheleans joining(?!) Peresadyes at some time. How it can be used as a reference for Dardanians?! Moreover if you go two pages before that you can see the map where were Dardanians at that time. Encheleans are surely different from Dardanians and the article itself does not link Peresadyes with Dardanians, so stop it. Misusing the sources is a very dangerous practice and unacceptable ] (]) 10:34, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
	== Primary sources on Epirus Hellenicity ==

			== Notification ==
	:Sources on the Epirotes
	"Zeus Archon, Dodonean, Pelasgian, who dwells afar, ruling on rough wintered Dodona, surrounded by the Selloi, the interpreters of your divine will, whose feet are unwashed and sleep on the ground".

			I mentioned your name in a proposal I made at ], in the thread about Kedadi . ] ] 14:36, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
	Homer, Iliad 16:127 (Achilles prayer)

			== Sanction notice ==
	XI. "War was at the same time proclaimed against the Tarentines (who are still a people at the extremity of Italy), because they had offered violence to some Roman ambassadors. These people asked aid against the Romans of Pyrrhus, king of Epirus, who derived his origin from the family of Achilles...

			Further to and by the power vested in me under ], you are hereby placed on a reverting restriction on all Balkans-related articles in the following terms:
	XIII. "...Thus the ambassador of Pyrrhus returned; and, when Pyrrhus asked him "what kind of a place he had found Rome to be," Cineas replied, that "he had seen a country of kings, for that all there were such, as Pyrrhus alone was thought to be in Epirus and the rest of Greece."
			*You may make no more than one revert per rolling 24-hour period on these articles
			*If you do make a revert on such an article, you must post an explanation of why you have made the revert, to be at least 50 words and in English, to the talk page of the article, within 30 minutes of posting.
			*"Balkans-related" is to be construed widely. If you are not certain whether a certain article is Balkans-related, assume that it is.
			This restriction applies until the end of June. You may appeal the restriction to me, to ], or to the Arbitration Committee. ] (]) 10:54, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

			== ] ==
	Eutropius (Abridgment of Roman History) Historiae Romanae Breviarium

			You are invited to participate in this board, which I just created. Please feel free to bring there your concerns. Cheers! --<sub><span style="border:1.5px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></sub><sup><small>]</small></sup> 01:04, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
			:Please also read ] as you were mentioned. --<sub><span style="border:1.5px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></sub><sup><small>]</small></sup> 02:01, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

			== You are now a Reviewer ==
	"Arha Ellas apo Oricias kai arhegonos Ellas Epiros"

			]
	"Greece starts at Oricus and the most ancient part of Greece is Epirus."
			Hello. Your account has been granted the "{{mono\|reviewer}}" userright, allowing you to ] on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a ] at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).

			Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not ] to articles placed under flagged protection. Flagged protection is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial.
	Claudius Ptolemy, The Geographer

			When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious ] or ], and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see ]). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found ].

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	â€œPeleus is the forefather of the kings of Epirosâ€

			== WP:AE ==
	Pausanias, II (Corinth).

			You have been reported at ]. ] ] 18:18, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
	Peleus being the son of King Aeacus (the dynasty's name) and the father of Achilles.

			== Your recent edits ==
	â€œbut we know of no Greek before Pyrros who fought against Rome.â€

			is problematic and I reverted you. You can't make poor edits like that without discussing them first in the talk page. --<sub><span style="border:1.5px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></sub><sup><small>]</small></sup> 12:48, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
	Pausanias, 1.11
			:I would also kindly ask you to answer ]. Thank you! --<sub><span style="border:1.5px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></sub><sup><small>]</small></sup> 16:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

			==WikiProject Dacia==
	â€œSo Pyrros was the first to cross over against Rome from mainland Greece, and even so he went over only because he was called in by Tarentumâ€
			Hi,
			I saw that you collaborated on articles related to ] and thought this could be of interest:
			] is looking for supporters, editors and collaborators for creating and better organizing information in articles related to ] and the history of ]-]. If interested, PLEASE provide your support on the ]. Thanks!!--] (]) 17:08, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

			== ] ==
	Pausanias, 1.12

			Hi. Your input would be helpful at ].   — '''<span style="background:Yellow;color:Blue;">] ]</span>''' 22:34, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
	Being apprized of Alcmaeon's untimely end and courted by Zeus, Callirrhoe requested that the sons she had by Alcmaeon might be full grown in order to avenge their father's murder. And being suddenly full-grown, the sons went forth to right their father's wrong. Now Pronous and Agenor, the sons of Phegeus, carrying the necklace and robe to Delphi to dedicate them, turned in at the house of Agapenor at the same time as Amphoterus and Acarnan, the sons of Alcmaeon; and the sons of Alcmaeon killed their father's murderers, and going to Psophis and entering the palace they slew both Phegeus and his wife. They were pursued as far as Tegea, but saved by the intervention of the Tegeans and some Argives, and the Psophidians took to flight.

			== A greek that pretends to know Albanias,Illyrians and their history???? ==
	Having acquainted their mother with these things, they went to Delphi and dedicated the necklace and robe according to the injunction of Achelous. Then they journeyed to Epirus, collected settlers, and colonized Acarnania.

	Apollodorus, 3.76-3.77.

	Acarnania was Greek and settlers from Epirus helped colonize it...

	After remaining in Tenedos two days at the advice of Thetis, Neoptolemus set out for the country of the Molossians by land with Helenus, and on the way Phoenix died, and Neoptolemus buried him; and having vanquished the Molossians in battle he reigned as king and begat Molossus on Andromache. And Helenus founded a city in Molossia and inhabited it, and Neoptolemus gave him his mother Deidamia to wife. And when Peleus was expelled from Phthia by the sons of Acastus and died, Neoptolemus succeeded to his father's kingdom."

	Apollodorus, 6.12

	"Alexander, the Epirote, when waging war against the Illyrians, first placed a force in ambush, and then dressed up some of his own men in Illyrian garb, ordering them to lay waste his own, that is to say, Epirote territory. When the Illyrians saw that this was being done, they themselves began to pillage right and left â€” the more confidently since they thought that those who led the way were scouts. But when they had been designedly brought by the latter into a disadvantageous position, they were routed and killed."

	Frontinus, Strategemata, On Ambushes, 10

	"When Harrybas, king of the Molossians, was attacked in war by Bardylis, the Illyrian, who commanded a considerably larger army, he dispatched the non-combatant portion of his subjects to the neighbouring district of Aetolia, and spread the report that he was yielding up his towns and possessions to the Aetolians. He himself, with those who could bear arms, placed ambuscades here and there on the mountains and in other inaccessible places. The Illyrians, fearful lest the possessions of the Molossians should be seized by the Aetolians, began to race along in disorder, in their eagerness for plunder. As soon as they became scattered, Harrybas, emerging from his concealment and taking them unawares, routed them and put them to flight."

	Frontinus, Strategemata, 13

	Seems clear that the Epirotes were NOT Illyrians...

	"It was for this reason that Pyrrhus was defeated by the Romans also in a battle to the finish. For it was no mean or untrained army that he had, but the mightiest of those then in existence among the Greeks and one that had fought a great many wars; nor was it a small body of men that was then arrayed under him, but even three times as large as his adversary's, nor was its general any chance leader, but rather the man whom all admit to have been the greatest of all the generals who flourish at that same period;"


	Dionysius of Halicarnnasus, Roman Antiquities, 19.11

	"Theopompus says, that there are fourteen Epirotic nations. Of these, the most celebrated are the Chaones and Molotti, because the whole of Epirus was at one time subject, first to Chaones, afterwards to Molotti. Their power was greatly strengthened by the family of their kings being descended from the Ã†acidÃ¦, and because the ancient and famous oracle of Dodona was in their country. Chaones, Thesproti, and next after these CassopÃ¦i, (who are Thesproti,) occupy the coast, a fertile tract reaching from the Ceraunian mountains to the Ambracian Gulf."

	"The Molotti also were EpirotÃ¦, and were subjects of Pyrrhus Neoptolemus, the son of Achilles, and of his descendants, who were Thessalians. The rest were governed by native princes. Some tribes were continually endeavouring to obtain the mastery over the others, but all were finally subdued by the Macedonians, except a few situated above the Ionian Gulf."

	Strabo, 7.7.1

	"Pyrrhus, the king of Epirus, had a particularly high opinion of his powers because he was deemed by foreign nations a match for the Romans; and he believed that it would be opportune to assist the fugitives who had taken refuge with him, especially as they were Greeks, and at the same time so forestall the Romans with some plausible excuse before he should suffer injury at their hands. For so careful was he about his good reputation that though he had long had his eye on Sicily and had been considering how he could overthrow the power of the Romans, he shrank from taking the initiative in hostilities against them, when no wrong had been done him."

	Cassius Dio, Book 9.420:33, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

	----

	<div class="user-block"> ] {{#if:12 hours\|You have been ''']''' from editing for a period of '''12 hours'''\|You have been temporarily ''']''' from editing}} in accordance with ] for {{#if:passing the revert parole imposed \|'''passing the revert parole imposed '''\|]}}. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to ]. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may ] by adding the text <!-- Copy the text as it appears on your page, not as it appears in this edit area. Do not include the "nowiki" tags. --><nowiki>{{</nowiki>unblock\|''your reason here''<nowiki>}}</nowiki><!-- Do not include the "nowiki" tags. --> below. {{#if:y\|<sup>]]</sup> 13:40, 15 February 2008 (UTC)}}</div><!-- Template:uw-block1 -->

	{{unblock reviewed\|I believed the revert limit was automatic and integrated into the system just like pages are protected.Nowhere is suggested that it was going to be of my own volition meaning i would have to check my self.I learned of it after the breach when Future informed me.\|2=I'm glad you understand now. Since this block is ''so'' short, though, I'm not going to overturn it. You were warned appropriately, and since this is related to the ] case, it is important to show the editors involved that the rules are taken seriously. As a reminder your restriction is 1 revert per page per day, for 2 months starting from February 13th. If you go over that you will be blocked for longer and longer periods. ]]<sup>]</sup> 15:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)}}

	== As promised ==

	]. It's SVG and relatively easy to edit, so suggestions for improvements are welcome. Data is exactly from Horrocks/Hall. ] ] 13:51, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

	== Epirus in Mycynaean era ==

	::

			So during my last 2 hour research into pages regarding Albania,the History of Albania and Illyria ,Illyrian tribes,and general history(over Albania and Illyria),your name comes up in most of them.I dont know if u are a admin on wikipedia,and im not bothering to find out.One simple question,what makes u qualified to discuss this matters,since first of all u are a citizen of a state that still has territorial dispute with Albania, a law of war.U dont seem to be the most objective person in this matters.Yet ur paws are present in every article or almost every one.I dont want a start a nationalist debate over albania,greece or whatsoever,just one simple advice.Stop disinforming people.(] (]) 17:28, 27 August 2011 (UTC)).

			== ] of ] ==
			]

			The article ] has been ]. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.
	A Historical Greek Reader: Mycenaean to the Koine,by Stephen Colvin,ISBN-10: 0199226601,2008,Page 40,"... (innovations) until the post-Mycenaean period.' In the late second millennium the proto- Aeolians seem to have occupied the regions between Epirus and Thessaly, ..."

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	Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 4,"... 9mbracian V r 0 10 20 30 km I Gulf 32 Figure 1: Map of Epirus showing the locations of known sites with Mycenaean remains. ..."

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	"... and the mechanisms by which such interactions took place. The strongest evidence for Mycenaean presence in Epirus is found in the coastal zone of the lower Acheron River, ..."

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	"... The Mycenaean Presence in Southwestern Epirus Taking into account the discoveries of the Nikopolis Project, remains of Mycenaean provenience or inspiration are known

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	"... and more gently on the south and west. From this acropolis-like settlement comes the strongest evidence for Mycenaean presence in Epirus. A circuit wall employing Cyclopean masonry, muCh of which can still be traced, ..."

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			== ] ==
	Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 22:
	"... a fragmentary condition, it appears that the assemblage conforms in chronological and formal terms to Mycenaean pottery already known from Epirus. The kylix is the most commonly identifiable shape, with fewer sherds belonging to stirrup jars, kraters, cups, and other shapes. ..."

			{{Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/MassMessage}} ] (]) 13:05, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
	Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 23:
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	"... at Mazaraki in the interior of northern Epirus, of Aegean pottery and bronze objects as burial goods in Gist graves (Wardle 1977, 177, fig. 10 nos. 476, 477; ...

			== Europe 10,000 Challenge invite ==

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	Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001, Page 24:
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	Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 27:
	"... GLYKYS LIMIN /23 of domesticated cattle are found in excavated contexts in Epirus from late Neolithic times (Douzough and Zachos 1994, 17); Ephyra and the adjacent Nekyomanteion site have produced them alongside those ..."

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	Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 30:
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	"... or luxury items of Mycenaean type-imported pottery and bronze weapons and utilitarian objects-were deposited primarily in graves and hoards throughout Epirus, ...
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	"... desires of those who possessed them to constrain or mobilize social action. In the case of Mycenaean engagement in coastal Epirus, ..."

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	Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Table of Contents:
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	"... A Mycenaean Port of Trade in Southern Epirus?
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	To prevent further disruption, I've blocked you for 24 hours for violation of the ] on ]. You reverted 3 times (, , ) and then I gave you a warning (), which you removed () and reverted again (). - ] (]) 19:52, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
	::I changed the page but since wiki rules is not about content but behaving ok i broke the law.] (]) 20:00, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

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	== On talk-Greeks and the map ==

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	::,May i suggest using this that Thomas will have in wiki somewhere sure regarding this
	.We could ask him to make a small version with showing from the Dorians and down.] (]) 09:05, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 07:02, 6 March 2023

/Archive 30 August 2009 up to 29 December 2009

Maps

OK Megistias, I really don't understand why do you keep on pushing some ideas in your Illyrian related maps? We had discussion about it a long time ago and I can see some other people have criticized your work too in the meantime. Do you know that your map File:Illyrians.jpg is taken for a joke in some specialized history forums where many experts write.

Why do you mark Liburni as Venetic people? There is no any evidence of that kind. There is only possibility that in the very northern Liburnia there was presence of Histri, who were close to Veneti (Veneti-like names). Why do you mark Iapodes as the Celts? Why do you spread wrong info about "Celticized Dalmatae"? Can you understand difference between: being a Celt/being Celtized/having material exchange with the Celts??? Are you aware that for this "Celtization" you use almost 90 years old theories about "Illyarian Hallstat", abandoned 60, 70 years ago?

Now I'm watching this map File:IllyrianWars.jpg. What is that? I'm shocked. What is that territory bordered by brown line (Demetrius of Pharos)? What is yellow territory (Teuta)? Zenanarh (talk) 12:29, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Do you have some difficulty reading this for example?

Wilkes, J. J. The Illyrians, 1992,ISBN 0631198075,page 183,"We may begin with the Venetic peoples, Veneti, Carni, Histri and Liburni, whose language set them apart from the rest of the Illyrians"Megistias (talk) 19:09, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I am shocked as well by your odd claiming talk that the Iranian Medes had something to do with the Thracian Maedi.And on a 3 years old discussion at that.Megistias (talk) 19:26, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I ve made the maps simpler and more neutral regarding celt issues but i will work on them further when i can.Megistias (talk) 08:52, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I'll start discussion in Liburnian language, about this, Wilkes is certainly not top authority on the matter and using only his specualation (citation from his book often used by you is not a fact) produces imbalance in related articles. My idea is not edit warring or pushing one idea against the others. We should cooperate on this. Zenanarh (talk) 10:17, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

About the Medes, well, actually there is possible connection. There's a large chance that the Medes contributted to ethnogenesis of the Illyrians, Thracians, Greeks in one episode of Indo-Europeanization in the Balkans. Zenanarh (talk) 11:00, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Daesitiates

I am not sure you're helping matters at User talk:Daesitiates. The user is clearly upset about some activities by other users; you are possibly among them. Let's focus on the content rather than what someone's agenda may be. I think the content issue needs to be resolved on the page where the disagreement exists. Frank | talk 15:18, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

ok, but he has never used the talk page and his edits are seen as inappropriate by other users as well. Megistias (talk) 15:27, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not making any judgment on his edits or whether or not others find them inappropriate. I told him that admin intervention is not appropriate and he needs to learn to find WP:CONSENSUS on the talk page of the article in question. That's a first step. If that is tried and it fails, there are other steps to follow in dispute resolution. Frank | talk 15:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Megistias,

I am kindly inviting you to cooperate so we can find some compromise on the text entitled " Ardian", for none of my 16 friends could see what was wrong with my contributions ( enclosed below) to "Ardian" and why you removed them.

I am inviting you ti once again read my additions that you have been continuously deleting and realise that they have no political connotations nor do they offend, assault or undermine anyone in any way. I am too old for this son. I guess you could show some respect to people who are much older than you and people who have been dealing with these issues academically , doing their best to keep it at the academic level, with as little as possible political interferences.

There are many people clled "Ardian" and when they want to show their parents, their children or their grandchildren the meaning of their name, the last thing they want to read is som epolitical background to that name, like" Thisi i sone of those imaginary Illyrian names imposed to Albanians by communist regime in Albanian". Communism vanished from Albania decades ago my son, and most Albanians (me being one) themselves prefer Ilylrian and Albanian national names. Nobody imposes that on us.

I guess Albanians DO  have a say about their own culture, right?

Why isn't there any Englishmen out there deleting contributions to some Celtic name? I'll tel you son, because he is civlized enough to understand that nationalism is a disease that needs to be cured.

So for the sake of those civilized values, as a person much older than you, I kindly ask you to read again my contributions that you ar so much upset about (for reasons known only to you) and reaize that my contributions are in no way offending or undermining anyone, nor, most importantly, are they lacking reference.

Here are the contributions you deleted. Please, read them and tell me whcih parts you don't liek and why so we can find som ecompromise.

Again, please bear in mind that the text "Ardian" , the way you left it on Misplaced Pages, DOES look indirectly discriminatory to Albanians, for two reasons:

1. It uses the undermining languge " the imaginary Illyrian names", and 2. It only emphasizes negative aspects of the history of that name ( "Illyrian names being imposed by communists", which dopes not affect the fact that Albnainas themselves prefer Ilylrian and Albanian national names. After all, they do not need to ask for someone's permission in order to do that, right?).

"Original Illyrian names found in the literature, as well as names made up of Illyrian words and etymologies in general, are still among the most preferred personal names among modern Albanians today, along with names deriving from Albanian language, the Albanian national names like Bardh/Bardha, ('white', 'pure', 'fair'), Hyll ('star'), Bora ('snow'), Dita ('daylight'), Drita ('light', 'illumination'), Gonxhe ('rosebud'; first name of Mother Teresa), Lule ('flower'), Pellumb ('dove'), etc. Indeed, there are some obvious similarities between the supposed Illyrian words (names of persons, places and things) and Albanian ones, such as the name of Illyrian king Bardylis and Albanian word for white, 'bardh', the name of Illyrian king Hyllus and Albanian "(h)yll", for 'star', Illyrian deity Bindo and Albanian 'bind' ('convince', 'make believe'), and dozens more. It also seems linguistically plausible to connect the name of Ardiaei with Latin "Ardea", meaning "Heron"A small town located in the area adjacent to Neretva river (which was precisely the original homeland of ancient Illyrian community of Ardiaei) is called Čapljina, deriving from "Čaplja", which in former Serbo-Croatian language (nowadays divided into Bosnian/Croatian/Montenegrin and Serbian) means precisely "Heron". This theory opens up many possibilities for the interpretation of the origin of this name, such as heron being present in significant numbers in that area since prehistory, and thus influencing the etymology, for example.However, this theory is challanged by the fact that the Ardiaei (although in a different form, Ardiaioi) were mentioned long before Romans conquered Illyrian lands, like, for example by Theopompus in the fourth century B.C., or in reference to their warfare agianst Phillip of Macedon, father of Alexander the Great. Vardiaei, one other variant of Ardiaei bears similarity with Greek word word ‘vardia’, meaning ‘watch/duty/shift’ (‘guard’ implicit), and if we allow for a possibility of Ardiaioi being some corrupt version (misspelling) of 'Vardaei', this may seem as a plausible explanation. However, further research is undoubtedly necessary in order to reach any tangible conclusion.

There are some claims too, that in one of the ancient sources Ardiaioi was actually a mistaken emendation of Autariatae. This is however most likely to mean that the author had mistaken Autariatae for Ardiaioi, rather than implying that they are one and the same people, for the fact that Ardiaioi were mentioned repeatedly and separately from Autariatae in several different ancient sources, as mentioned above. Whatever the case, the fact is that Ardiaioi (the Greek version of Ardiaiei or Vardaei) were mentioned before Romans came to exert any influence, including the lingusitic one among Illyrians. This so far rules out the Latin etymology of Ardiaiei, based on Latin 'ardea', for 'heron'."

All of them were well referenced, as you know.

I frankly hope we will manage to find a compromising solution, although, as I said, NONE OF US HERE see what was wrong with the above addition that I made. (Daesitiates (talk) 15:53, 5 February 2010 (UTC))

How about creating a version of the article at User:Daesitiates/Ardian, complete with references, so it can be discussed there? (Or a suitably named page; I'm not certain which article you are trying to make these edits to.) And remember, this isn't about you and your friends; it's about reliable sources Frank | talk 16:03, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough Frank, I will proceed with that instantly, although I might have to ask for your patientce if I am stuck somewhere in the process for, like I said, I am sure I am much older than many of you guys here and I may not be as skillfull with Misplaced Pages. Ok. I will propose my version on that page. (Daesitiates (talk) 16:23, 5 February 2010 (UTC)). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daesitiates (talk • contribs) 16:20, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

You have never used the talk page for years.And your edits were unconstructive. You removed references among other things.Megistias (talk) 16:43, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

megistias. I may have never used talk page, but like I said, I am decades older than most of you. Trust me, you can al lbe my children.in other words, i am not as skillful as you kids in wikipedia and computer skills in general.

"your edits were unconstructive". Excuse me young man, but isn't this statemen slightly overambitious? I would be truly grateful if aou enlgihtened me on how my edits were unconstructive. After all, how constructive is it to change the text on a national name making it look like a mere political criticism?

is there any positive word you said about that name in that particular text or anythin positive you said about Albanian culture. Out of so many references to Albanian names (and culture in generaly) you only imposed the negative one, the one obviously undermining Albanian culture by calling its names repertoire some communist construct imposed on people. Now, how constructive ( let alone unbiased) is that?

Image me going to some Greek name page and doing what you did on "Ardian"? Now, how fair would you consider that to be? I am sorry to say this, but you more than obviously have some serious unresolved issue in your attitude towards Albanian culture.

Finaly, I would be grateful if you remind me when and how I remeove references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daesitiates (talk • contribs) 17:14, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Please, sign your comments and take some time to read wikipedia rules.Megistias (talk) 17:16, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

This discussion is pointless. Let's focus on content moving forward. No need to look at the past; let's just get it right in the present. Frank | talk 17:21, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

You're right Frank. I 'm sorry. I just flet I needed to tell the truth, but yes, let's move ahead now and see what we can do. I proposed my version on User:Daesitiates/Ardian as you advised. I had a little problem though for I couldn't use the references in a normal way so I copied them at the bottom. i hope that's not the problem. I think what matters is the content. (Daesitiates (talk) 17:28, 5 February 2010 (UTC)).

Further comment belongs at User talk:Daesitiates/Ardian. And remember: Misplaced Pages is about verifiability, not truth. Frank | talk 17:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Discussion

Your comments here are not helpful, and I've removed them. The purpose of that page is not to discuss the main article and whether or not the content is appropriate for the main article. The first things to be worked on are formatting, references, citation, removing original research, and all the basics. If we can't get past all of that, nothing can go into the main article space.

If you read what I've written thus far, I've been saying let's work in a safe, sandbox-type area and get the content up to Misplaced Pages standards first. After we get there, then we can talk about achieving some kind of consensus to put it in the article. If you (or anyone) start attacking the talk page of a sandbox work with reasons why the material can't get into a main space article, conflict will surely arise. Let's focus on proper writing, sourcing, and other policies first. Better yet - let me work on that with him. Thanks! Frank | talk 19:52, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

i wont do anything to the sandbox but i redirected ardian to adrian name page that includes all such names.Clear and cut.Thats where the name derives from. Megistias (talk) 20:05, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

And I have undone that redirect from Ardian. The article contains content specific to the name Ardian. There may be sourcing issues with the article itself, but that's not a reason to redirect it elsewhere. Frank | talk 20:19, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I hope I am following it up properly. I just want to say that I finally managed to resolve my referencing problem and I hope my proposed text at my user page:Daesitiates/Ardiaei is now ready for negotiations.

If I may just kindly ask, are the three of us supposed to negotiate the issue on this page (this one here belonging to megistias), my talk page (Daesitiates) or somewhere else? Please forgive my ignorance. I am ensuring you I am doing my best to learn on the go. Thanx for the patience.

--Daesitiates (talk) 20:45, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Other than Frank gracioucly having the good will to guide you through article editing, and you following... i have to repeat that many of the things you suggest in the sandbox have been proposed by albanian editors over the years on many articles, and they did not go in.They are not encyclopedic, to put it politely.Megistias (talk) 20:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Daesitiates - please stick to the sandbox we are working in. That content is nowhere near ready to be reviewed by anyone for inclusion anywhere else. Frank | talk 21:16, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Megistias - perhaps you can take a look at User talk:Daesitiates/Ardian to READ only, please without commenting. I think you'll find we're peeling back the layers a bit and we will eventually be able to get to the content. I don't want to predict how things will turn out, but I hope you will watch as things progress.

If I may say, your approach doesn't look to be so inspiring either; if you're going to call into question another editor's actions, especially when it's clear you already don't agree...it's usually not going to wind up in a good result. To be specific, it really doesn't help when you tell someone that "many of the things you suggest...have been proposed...and did not go in." This is going to inspire someone to argue, not to work with you to achieve consensus. And I would point out that if there is to be any peaceful editing and avoidance of edit warring, page protection, topic bans, and maybe even blocks, both sides are going to have to learn to find something to agree on. Consensus isn't about getting someone else blocked or banned. It's about finding something acceptable enough to both sides that they'll both leave it in even if neither thinks it is the 100% "right" way to word it. We certainly still need verifiable citations from reliable sources. That's not in question. But there comes a point where we have to understand that the best result possible may be based on consensus rather than full agreement from every party.

Hopefully we can start achieving good results all around. Frank | talk 03:41, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I am not going to comment on the sandbox, but i have yet to find a single reference on which to base a reason to consider Ardian anything else other than a variant of Adrian.Megistias (talk) 11:28, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

That is not the purpose of that sandbox exercise. The purpose is to understand how to edit, how to find sources, how to write an article, and how to discuss issues. Whether or not Ardian is anything more or less than a variant of Adrian is really quite beside the point. Eventually we will get to that. Frank | talk 11:41, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Beograd Atlas of 1970

Since you have been involved in Ilyrian related topics I have recently found these pictures, you might be interested to check: ] ].Alexikoua (talk) 20:57, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Wow, suddenly albanians appeared 500+ years before they actually did, Byzantine Greeks are gone and non-Greek populations somehow have "absolute homogeny", and have have over all the region.Megistias (talk) 22:38, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Albanian name

Your edits in Albanian (name) are ridiculuous, Arba and Olbonenses have nothing to do with Albanian name. Position of Olbonenses is unkown, some scientists think that Olbonenses were Aluatae - citizens of Alvona, so Olbona would be error in writing or distorted toponym. And both Alvona and Arba were in the north of Liburnia, where Histri, Iapodes and Liburnians were mixing - a region historically and geographically not linked to Albania and Albanians. It is like to say that name of Bangkok came from "bannana". Or from sound produced by John Wayne's gun: "bang". ;P Zenanarh (talk) 13:43, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I know they dont, since you are certain please remove it. Megistias (talk) 13:46, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Olbonenses are not even mentiond in that article. What are you talking about?Megistias (talk) 13:53, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

ha? you're right, sorry. Zenanarh (talk) 14:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Maps... I will, I've already signed myself in Commons, one of these days I'll remove them there and upload a few new ones. At the moment I'm working some other maps too, Dalmatae, Dalmatae Tariotes, Iapodes, Roman Dalmatia, Iron Age burial tradition in the Western Balkans,... Zenanarh (talk) 14:25, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Reverted you in Shkoder

Please see this revert I made to your contribution to Shkoder. Hope that's ok. user:sulmues--Sulmues 18:38, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

The very next sentence says the same thing, only better.Megistias (talk) 19:43, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Hyllus

Maybe you can help. Except Hyllus in Greek mythology and Hyllus (river), there was also Hyllus Peninsula at the eastern Adriatic coast. See Tariotes. This toponym was recorded in the ancient Greek sources. Can you find some data, like citations,... Zenanarh (talk) 09:11, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, i found Pliny,Naturalis Historia, Liburniae finis et initium Delmatiae Scardona in amne eo XII passuum a mari. dein Tariotarum antiqua regio et castellum Tariona, promunturium Dio-medis vel, ut alii, paeninsula Hyllis circuitu C, Tragurium civium Romanorum, marmore notum, Siculi, in quem locum Divus Claudius veteranos misit, Salona colonia ab Iader CXII. petunt in eam iura viribus discriptis in de...
Nothing yet on ancient greek texts.Will keep on looking.Could it be that an greek mentions this in a latin language text?

Megistias (talk) 11:37, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I doubt, I have some sources which mention ancient Greek sources exclusively, in my understanding those from Hellenistic era. Pliny the Elder and other Latin writers knew about this name. However, it seems that in the Greek scholarship there were some unsuccesful attempts to attach this toponym to Pelloponesus or some other peninsula in Greece. I'm thinking about new article: Hyllus Peninsula, so any data would be nice. BTW this is probably from where originally Hylleis arrived to Greece during the Dorian invasion. Zenanarh (talk) 12:17, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Which Hellenistic writers? Maybe they write the name in a slightly different manner, a variance, thats why its no popping up so prominentely.But then there are some writers from that era that are obscure and hard to find. Got any names?Megistias (talk) 12:39, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

What I have is this: , text is in both Croatian and English, check ref note no. 2. Zenanarh (talk) 12:47, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Stephanus of Byzantium 6th century AD, writes of the myth but adds in the bottom, though part of the text is not saved, "Υπερ δε τους Υλλους Λιβυρνοι και τινες Ιστροι λεγομενοι Θρακες. Και το θυληκον Υλλις προκειτα χερρονησος ηλικη. Μαλιστα Πελοποννησος, ως φασι …."

Something like they are above the Liburni, and then of Istri that are called Thracians. And then Yllis chersonese, like a female. In the end he says that it looks like Pelloponesus but then the text is gone no more elaborating. Then he goes on on blah blah.Megistias (talk) 12:54, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Ok from your link, it says "through the middle of the peninsula which Roman sources called Hyllus" so we know that Latin texts will most likely be using this term for it.And the reference inside it goes "According to an ancient Greek legend or, more precisely, propaganda, the Hyllus Peninsula was slightly smaller than the Peloponnese and there were 15 cities on it inhabited by barbarized Greek Hyllini, the descendents of Herakles’ son Hyllus (Suić 1955: 132-133; Katičić 1995: 91-98, 387-398; Mastrocinque 1996: 359-361; Čače 1995-96: 21-45)."

This is most likely from Stephanus of Byzantium. The Herakles myth and some non-mythic data that a place with a similar sounding name existed.Megistias (talk) 13:01, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Ok, the data from your link is Pliny + Stephanus as after the missing text he writes what the pdf-reference writes.Megistias (talk) 13:06, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Also, the only parallel data from Stephanus seems to come from De prosodia catholica, by Pseudo-Aelius Herodianus 180-250,. It seems as if Stephanus had copied the exact data that Pseudo-Aelius Herodianus provided.

But i want to verify this more to be certain.Megistias (talk) 13:14, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Its the same, Stephanus copied from Herodianus.See also From political architecture to Stephanus Byzantius Megistias (talk) 13:19, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Tnx :) Zenanarh (talk) 13:22, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Liburnians

Megistias what are you doing? After you have completely destroyed almost every Illyrian related article, now you keep on doing your special mission here too? You stupid arrogant little shit!!! Please report me!!!!! Zenanarh (talk) 07:19, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

There is no need to report this editor, they have now reported themselves and I have blocked them for a week for disruption. I have no idea what this conflict is all about, but please don't rise to the bait. Thanks. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 10:47, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I will check them the following days. Nice job by the wayAlexikoua (talk) 08:38, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Names on 1854 map

No problem: The wanting names on that map are Zidon, Zoar, Arpad, Aram, Arphachsad, Mash, Carchemish, Calneh in the first area. There's one name in Canaan I can't make out, possibly Cheth. The word (Armenians) in parentheses is under Togharma. (Medians) should also be in parentheses. In the Sinai, you've got Ludim, Amalek, Edom, Midian and Sinim. Note that most of these are now thought to have been located outside of the Sinai peninsula. Cheers, Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 18:14, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, there's another area near the Caspian with the names: Kaspian, Kur R., Araxes R. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 18:23, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Great job on the map! I do like the green version, though. Cheers, Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 16:54, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Origin of Albanians

I have continued this debates you began on the Origin of ROmanians talk page with Pannonia. Please feel free to comment Hxseek (talk) 22:46, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Yep. Its a shame the way Pannonian is carrying on. He accuses me being biased by my personal beliefs on Kosovo, which is rediculous. I think he has taken a personal offence because I agreed with you that his maps are anachronistic, and that his source Atlas of World History is hardly awe-inspiring. I am currently reading Epirus Vetus. Archaeology of a Late Antique Province by Bowden. I think its a very good piece of work Hxseek (talk) 04:52, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

The purpose of WP:AN/I

Hi. I noticed that you have made a few hasty reports to WP:AN/I today. Please remember, frivolous complaints and unsubstantiated requests for administrator intervention do not belong there. Please do not clutter that page with accusations or side-discussions within a discussion. Before posting a grievance about a user there, please discuss the issue with them on their user talk page. The reports you filed today belonged on a different page, to which the following is a guide:

To report persistent vandalism or spamming, see administrator intervention against vandalism.
To report impolite or uncivil communications with other editors, see wikiquette alerts.
To report improper deletion or request undeletion, see deletion review.
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To request page protection, see requests for page protection.
To report edit warring, see the administrators' edit warring noticeboard.
To report long time edit warring/abuse, see Long term abuse.
To report suspected sockpuppetry, see Sockpuppet investigations.
To start a ban discussion, see the administrators' noticeboard.
For evasion of blocks, abuse of admin tools, or other incidents, see Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents (WP:ANI)
To request permanent deletion of dangerous personal information, see requests for oversight. DO NOT make such requests at WP:AN/I; reports there are visible to everyone.
To get assistance in resolving disputes, please see dispute resolution.

Please ensure that if you file a report at any of those pages that you both read and follow all instructions listed in the respective header, as different noticeboards can have different requirements. Also, please observe that you must notify any user(s) about which you initiate a discussion WP:AN/I. You may use place {{subst:ANI-notice}} on their user talk page to do so. Thank you. Ioeth (talk contribs twinkle friendly) 22:46, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Thats alot of stuff :)Megistias (talk) 00:46, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Yup! But super handy. It's always good to know where you can go to get the quickest, most effective resolution. Cheers! Ioeth (talk contribs twinkle friendly) 02:29, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Pashalik of Yanina

Please do not continue reverting back and forth; rather, discuss this civilly on the talk page of that article. Thank you. f o x (formerly garden) 12:00, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

I have, Talk:Pashalik_of_Yanina , Megistias (talk) 12:11, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

You have a response in my talk page.

Regards. --sulmues (talk) 20:07, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Your request at RPP

Hi there! Just to let yuo know, I've declined your protection request for now, you can find my reasons at WP:RPP.

Just to let you know, for future reference, that you should put new requests at the top of the list, as that's where admins will look for it. When the list is short like it is today, it doesn't make much difference, but it can sometimes get to 20 or more requests waiting action, and ones at the bottom may well get missed. Cheers! Ged UK 12:31, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

ThankouMegistias (talk) 13:46, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Albania TF

Could you please respond here? --sulmues (talk) 23:43, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

No, after this insult of yours diff, of course not :) Megistias (talk) 23:52, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

It's not about me! You deserve to stand there, because you have written all the Albanian related articles. --sulmues (talk) 01:33, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

And please display this

This editor is a Veteran Editor II and is entitled to display this Bronze Editor Star.

as you are a Grand Tutnum now. You deserve it! --sulmues (talk) 06:00, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

March 2010

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours for edit warring on Vjosë, , , , . Please stop. You are welcome to make useful contributions after the block expires. If you believe this block is unjustified you may contest this block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}} below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Tiptoety 10:55, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Megistias (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

See the article talk page

Decline reason:

"See talk page" does not address the reason for your block. This incident was originally raised at WP:ANI and then moved to WP:3RR for action. WP:EW is clear in this regard, and protection of thr article for only 24 hrs is a minimum requirement at this time (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:12, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Megistias (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

That was raised at originally raised at WP:ANI by me and then to be moved to WP:3RR for action for User Sulmues, by me, not for me.

Decline reason:

I am declining your request for unblock because it does not address the reason for your block, or because it is inadequate for other reasons. To be unblocked, you must convince the reviewing administrator(s) that

the block is not necessary to prevent damage or disruption to Misplaced Pages, or
the block is no longer necessary because you
- understand what you have been blocked for,
- will not continue to cause damage or disruption, and
- will make useful contributions instead.

Please read our guide to appealing blocks for more information. You were blocked for edit warring, it doesn't matter who reported who, you were edit warring. Kingpin (talk) 12:41, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Megistias (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Sorry i forgot myself and changed the article within too little time. But the talk page was used and still is on the issue.

Decline reason:

It's good that you've acknowledged your edit warring; please sit out the rest of your block and contribute constructively when you return. GlassCobra 14:28, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Himara and Vasil Bollano

I am going to ask for a neutral person to settle this. You must work for the Greek government to have all the time in the world to revert to nonsense. I posted their names from the 16th century and you remove them? Why? How are they not relevant? Keep it Fake (talk) 17:34, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes ask a neutral person, thats a good solution. Just dont remove sources. The rest of your accusation or claim against me is .....Megistias (talk) 17:36, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Vjosa common female name in Albanian: source is edit-warred

Hi there! You might want to be interested in seeing this, because you are involved. --sulmues (talk) 11:00, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Result of the 3RR case

Please see the result of WP:AN3#User:PANONIAN reported by User:Megistias (Result: Both warned), a 3RR case which you filed about the Dardani article. Both you and PANONIAN are edit warring. Try to get an outside view before you revert again. Sanctions are possible otherwise. EdJohnston (talk) 01:36, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Rv you

I reverted you on Zana e malit. You claim too much there without any sources. --sulmues (talk) 11:54, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Albanian nationalism

Did you revert me as IP on that article?--— ZjarriRrethues — 11:15, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

I am not a "sock" account and could you answer my question?--— ZjarriRrethues — 11:24, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Sources

Megistias, when you add a statement like this, it is crucial to cite your sources... but you must also make sure that the sources actually say what you claim they do.

By consulting Google Books, we learn that Robert Elsie's book does not say anything remotely like the statement you attribute to him; there is one mention of the phrase 'romantic nationalism', in a context referring to a pre-existing cult. I have also searched Elsie's text for the phrases 'invented', 'invention', 'fictitious', 'fictional', 'fiction', 'spurious', 'fraud', 'defrauded', 'false', 'fake', and 'forgery', to no avail; 'constructed' does appear, but only in an architectural context.

While I understand your patriotic desires and cultural pride, I must remind you of the importance of intellectual honesty. DS (talk) 13:35, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

That refers to the start of Ref Rilindija period of romantic nationalism and further on. Megistias (talk) 09:28, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Also i get disconnected all the time due to my router and i can't edit, log on or even browse around.

That isn't related to what you were trying to add, in fact that has nothing to do with Albanian mythology.--— ZjarriRrethues — 09:31, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Reverted you

I reverted your edits . You may be right about other names, but not Bardhyl, which has been around since Rilindja Kombetare time. --sulmues talk contributions 23:19, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Reported

You were reported here.--— ZjarriRrethues — 12:29, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

When I wrote my initial comments in the spi I didn't checked your userpage, in which you inform about the 'log out problems'. Personally, I've changed 4 routers recently.Alexikoua (talk) 20:20, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Dardani

Citing from the book you use as a reference : The dynasty which buried their kings and queens at Radoliste was certainly that of Encheleae, whom Hecateus mentioned at that time. It must have been on good terms with its richer neighbor, since Radoliste and Trebeniste are only some ten kilometres apart. A corrupt passage in Strabo which was probably derived from Hecateus, may help us; for it seems to record the combination of the "Peresadyes" and the Encheleae to create a powerful state. If so, the Peresadyes was the name of the dynasty at Trebeniste. The name suggest they were Thracians.......The areas to the north and to the west of the lakeland differed from it in an important respect, the practice of tumulus-burial...The largest concentrations of tumuli, often numbering several hundred, were in areas attributable to specific Illyrian tribes: in the Mati valley, home of some Taulantian tribes; in Zadrima plain, belonging probably to the Grabaei; in Scodra region, home of Labeatae, in the valley of Black Drin, where Chelidonii lived. The burials were those of warrior rulers and their women, and the weapons and the ornaments buried with them were related not only to each other but to those in the tumulus-burials of Metohija and Kosovo, home of the Dardani, and of central Yugoslavia, where a distinctive Illyrian culture has been call the Glasinac culture.

So the reference is clear about

There were two different dynasties at that time
The dynasty in Radoliste was that of Encheleae
Encheleae were the neighbours of Peresadyes
The dynasty in Trebeniste was that of Peresadyes
At some time they could (corrupt passage) have joined together
Their burial practice were different of other Illyrians
They are not related to Dardani whatsoever
Dardani are related to other Illyrians

No complain about Peresadyes being a thracian tribe, but the reference is talking about precisely about Encheleans joining(?!) Peresadyes at some time. How it can be used as a reference for Dardanians?! Moreover if you go two pages before that you can see the map where were Dardanians at that time. Encheleans are surely different from Dardanians and the article itself does not link Peresadyes with Dardanians, so stop it. Misusing the sources is a very dangerous practice and unacceptable Aigest (talk) 10:34, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Notification

I mentioned your name in a proposal I made at WP:AE, in the thread about Kedadi . Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:36, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Sanction notice

Further to this arbitration enforcement request and by the power vested in me under Misplaced Pages:ARBMAC#Discretionary_sanctions, you are hereby placed on a reverting restriction on all Balkans-related articles in the following terms:

You may make no more than one revert per rolling 24-hour period on these articles
If you do make a revert on such an article, you must post an explanation of why you have made the revert, to be at least 50 words and in English, to the talk page of the article, within 30 minutes of posting.
"Balkans-related" is to be construed widely. If you are not certain whether a certain article is Balkans-related, assume that it is.

This restriction applies until the end of June. You may appeal the restriction to me, to WP:ANI, or to the Arbitration Committee. Stifle (talk) 10:54, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Albanian and Greek wikipedians cooperation board

You are invited to participate in this board, which I just created. Please feel free to bring there your concerns. Cheers! --_Sulmues 01:04, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Please also read this as you were mentioned. --_Sulmues 02:01, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).

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WP:AE

You have been reported at WP:AE#Megistias. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:18, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Your recent edits

this edit is problematic and I reverted you. You can't make poor edits like that without discussing them first in the talk page. --_Sulmues 12:48, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

I would also kindly ask you to answer here. Thank you! --_Sulmues 16:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Dacia

Hi, I saw that you collaborated on articles related to Dacia and thought this could be of interest: WikiProject Dacia is looking for supporters, editors and collaborators for creating and better organizing information in articles related to Dacia and the history of Daco-Getae. If interested, PLEASE provide your support on the proposal page. Thanks!!--Codrinb (talk) 17:08, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Zecharia Mayani

Hi. Your input would be helpful at Talk:Zecharia Mayani. — Jeff G. ツ 22:34, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

A greek that pretends to know Albanias,Illyrians and their history????

So during my last 2 hour research into pages regarding Albania,the History of Albania and Illyria ,Illyrian tribes,and general history(over Albania and Illyria),your name comes up in most of them.I dont know if u are a admin on wikipedia,and im not bothering to find out.One simple question,what makes u qualified to discuss this matters,since first of all u are a citizen of a state that still has territorial dispute with Albania, a law of war.U dont seem to be the most objective person in this matters.Yet ur paws are present in every article or almost every one.I dont want a start a nationalist debate over albania,greece or whatsoever,just one simple advice.Stop disinforming people.(ArberVela85 (talk) 17:28, 27 August 2011 (UTC)).

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ArbCom elections are now open!

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Europe 10,000 Challenge invite

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Please help with the Misplaced Pages Review forum

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