User talk:Ned Scott: Difference between revisions

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			{{INDEX}}
	{{User:Ned Scott/header}}		{{User:Ned Scott/header}}
	{{User talk:Ned Scott/archive}}		{{User talk:Ned Scott/archive}}
			== "List of Lost episodes/Use of images" listed at ] ==
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	== TTN ==
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	TTN got recently blocked because he honestly did not think his restrictions meant that he wasn't able to start a thread on a project notice board, myself and several other Wikipedians in good standing were under the same assumption. That's not gaming the system or pushing the limit, that's nothing more than miscommunication. TTN even pleaded with you guys to get some guidance, and you ignored the request for clarification for weeks. Now you come out of no where with a complete and total ban? That's a horrible idea. TTN has been behaving very well, and hasn't been doing ''anything'' wrong. The flames you see that you want to get rid of are nothing more than the left over feelings from the past, not because of things that are happening now.

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	And you come completely out of left field with a proposal to ban Kww, who hasn't even had any kind of RfC or mediation, or focus of any kind in the last two cases. It's like you're swinging around blindly, smashing furniture and breaking walls, just to put out a candle. I beg of you to reconsider your proposals. -- ] 02:19, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

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	:Well, we obviously have differing views on what the real problem is here. If you're working from the assumption that TTN (and everyone helping him) is fundamentally in the right in this dispute, then I quite expect my proposals look like the confused ramblings of someone who just doesn't understand the real issue. But that's not the only way of looking at it, I would think. ] <sup><small>(])</small></sup> 04:37, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

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	::I don't blindly stand up for TTN, and I've agreed plenty of times about where he went wrong. Please Kirill, I know I can be heated and such on these discussions, but please please don't just assume stuff like this about me or about the other people who are involved. You have every right to throw out everything I've said, since I've been rude to you in the past about this, but if there's any tiny little bit of respect that you might have for my opinion, please consider what I'm saying. TTN has been neutered, he can't do squat anymore, and I honestly didn't think we'd see him again. The fact that he's come back and is willing to participate in discussions made me very happy. I agreed with some of conclusions he made, but really disagreed about some of his methods. His edits with the video game articles were clearly walking the line, and he should have been smarter than that, but he's not even doing that anymore. Otherwise he's been doing pretty well with just dealing with discussions, and it's really not necessary to ban him from those as well. TTN works great with boundaries clearly set, and we've been asking for clarification to help avoid an incident for weeks.
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	::TTN even got unblocked from this last block because he said he would refrain from posting on project talk pages until there was clarification about his restrictions. Honestly, several users all thought that his restrictions to project space was meant for XfDs and other formal requests, but not notice boards. He wouldn't have started any discussion if he had thought it was against his restriction.

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	::Even if you don't believe me there, at least reconsider the proposal for Kww. Kww was vocal about standing up for TTN, but hasn't been disruptive outside of that (if one were to consider him standing up for TTN to be disruptive). If you really believe there to be a behavioral issue with Kww, please let us try other levels of DR first.

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	::If I could get down on my knees over Misplaced Pages and beg this of you I would. I'd do anything you'd ask me to do. -- ] 04:57, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
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			== Reason for revert of syntax error fixes? ==
	:::Any limited restriction on TTN is going to be rules-lawyered to death. It happened with the video game articles (which aren't technically covered); it happened with the noticeboards (which may or may not be technically covered, depending on how you define "request"); and I have every reason to believe that even if we clarify the present matter, TTN will continue to try to act as a driving force behind the removal of content on fictional topics through some other method. He is not, at this point, legitimately helping things—his reputation is such that anything he does will likely be reverted regardless of its merits—so all he's doing is needlessly antagonizing the editors supporting this material. If he can't see that and step away from the front line, then we're forced to do it for him.
	:::As far as Kww goes, you may feel that equating the editors that worked on ] with penis spammers is acceptable, but I do not. Were it up to me, he'd be off the project for that little burst of odiousness alone. The least I can do is keep him away from the areas where he's likely to actually put such an ideology into practice. ] <sup><small>(])</small></sup> 05:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

			Is there a reason that you just did a bunch of reverts , of bot edits that fixed dozens of syntax errors in your talk page archives? – ] (]) 19:22, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
	::::''"TTN will continue to try to act as a driving force behind the removal of content on fictional topics through some other method."'' That was never the issue, the issue was his methods. TTN has every right to act as a driving force to clean up Misplaced Pages, as long as he's not forcing the issue on other editors.
			:Yes -- ] 19:23, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
			::That is not a helpful answer. Please provide an explanation. Those errors were fixed by an approved bot task. If there were errors in the bot edits, please specify what the bot did that you view as incorrect. You have restored errors of a couple of types that had been completely eliminated from the English Misplaced Pages, so your pages are likely to draw attention from editors who work to fix those errors. – ] (]) 19:26, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
			:::I understand, but do not wish to explain further. These are my talk page archives. Maybe I want to archive incorrect formatting? Maybe I'm just a jerk? Maybe I don't trust people to edit those pages for any reason, especially when they ignore the notice to not edit the pages and didn't bother to ask me about it. The reasons are mysterious. They're marked as archives and with nobots. -- ] 19:31, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
			::::Since it's not ], you should supply a valid reason. ] (]) 19:38, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
			:::::I'm not going to debate this. Leave my talk archives alone. -- ] 20:05, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

			Oh my god, I just took a closer look at what exactly you guys are doing, and it's not even fixing anything. You can't tell me that
	::::How do you know that clarification will be rules-lawyered to death? In the first case arbcom gave us useless advice, and the second case was the first to give any clear instructions on what to actually do. Fluffy proposals like "be happy and work together" don't do squat. We warned you during the second case about the clarity issue with video games, and you ignored it. TTN edits those articles, gets blocked, and we have clarity the hard way. So then TTN only edits on talk pages, and is under the honest impression that he is allowed to have full participation on talk pages. He gets blocked again, and we plead with you guys again to give is clarification (even though you've still ignored the first request, which sits and collects dust).

			*<nowiki><font color="#ff9900">]</font><font color="#ff6699">]</font></nowiki>
	::::The idea that you would ban an editor like Kww for some minor incivility in a heated debate disturbs me. It's an abuse of your position as an arb, and it's highly inappropriate.

			being changed to
	::::You're not helping us to resolve a dispute, you're being a bully, and trying to scare people away from any form of participation as a solution. -- ] 06:07, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

			*<nowiki>]]</nowiki>
	:::::''"his reputation is such that anything he does will likely be reverted regardless of its merits—so all he's doing is needlessly antagonizing the editors supporting this material. If he can't see that and step away from the front line, then we're forced to do it for him."'' Unless I'm reading this wrong, you're saying that because other editors have a bad opinion of him, that even if he makes good suggestions, other people will assume bad faith and ''they'' will cause disruption. And so it's his fault that he doesn't go away because other people don't like him? Is that what you are saying? -- ] 06:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

			is doing anything necessary or fixing some kind of formatting issue. -- ] 20:16, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
	:::::::Kirill, rather then discipline people for breaking the rules and reverting regardless of merit, you'd say "Well, even if he's following the rules, other people will break the rules to get at him, so it'd be best if he went away?" Are you seriously saying that? Do you understand how incredibly dubious that sounds? ] (]) 07:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

			:]: ], ], ], ], ], ], ] and ] are among numerous Wikipedians working diligently to eradicate lint errors from Misplaced Pages who have edited one or more of your talk page archives. The edit about which you are godsmacked is a correction of an ] lint error. The Wikimedia software that makes Misplaced Pages work preprocesses or parses Wiki markup (Wikitext) with a tool called a linter. Around 2019, Wikimedia replaced the old linter with a new linter. Under the old linter, {{tag\|font}} immediately surrounding a wikilink or external link behaved as if the font tag were inside the link. That means that such font tags would override link colors. The new linter doen't work this way, and font color tags around a wikilink or external link don't override default link colors. This edit restores the display of ]'s signature to its original appearance, as everybody saw it, until the new linter came in. ] is considered a High Priority lint error, and we completely eradicated it from English Misplaced Pages. The only pages that have it now are your talk page archives.
	== {{user\|Aimulti}} ==
			:Another High Priority lint error is ]. The most common example of this error is a {{tag\|small\|o}} tag closed with another {{tag\|small\|o}} instead of {{tag\|small\|c}}. The old linter usually fixed this error silently, but the new linter regards this as two unclosed {{tag\|small\|o}} tags, which means that everything following these tags is displayed double-small, all the way to the end of the page, unless the leak is contained by a table or some other structure. We completely eradicated ] from English Misplaced Pages. The only pages that have it now are your talk page archives.
			:] edited one of of your talk page archives to correct "buy" to "but" in his own comment. That's not unreasonable, but it might have been better to mark it up as <code><nowiki><del>buy</del> <ins>but</ins></nowiki></code>, i.e. <del>buy</del> <ins>but</ins>.
			:There is a theory held by a small number of Wiki editors that archives are a historical record that must never be changed. That theory is incorrect. On Misplaced Pages, we edit talk page archives all the time for a variety of reasons, including copyright violations, renaming of image files, and, yes, lint fixes. This is explicitly encouraged at ]. We have been doing this for years. Most users appreciate it. A few users question it, but nearly all of those come to respect it after we explain it. I hope you will come to respect and appreciate it also. Cheers! —] (]) 22:10, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
			::It's an archive, and is already full of red links, missing images, regarding topics that lack context, and more. I don't agree that this is something that needs to be done. Regardless of the situation, bots still need to follow the nobots tag.
			::That being said, seeing as this is something that is showing up on a report, that means you guys will never stop bugging me about this. So I give up. -- ] 23:00, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
			:::I see you have already self-reverted your reversions of lint fix edits of your talk page archive pages. Thank you for your cooperation. Cheers! —] (]) 01:24, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

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	I've reduced the block on Aimulti to 48 hours. I suspect he'll trip up pretty quickly as he's already put justifications for his personal attacks on his talk page. I'm going to ask you to please keep an eye on this guy when the block expires. ] <small>(])</small> 05:43, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
	:Thanks, and I'll be sure to keep an eye on him. I really appreciate that you considered the request, and kept an open mind about it. -- ] 05:51, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

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	I thought you might be interested in ] and ]. I have ceased my activity in an administrative capacity related to this issue. ] <small>(])</small> 06:43, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

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	== I've made fresh comments ==
	Feel free to comment on . Damn, I'm pissed. ] (]) 02:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
	:Yeah, in all of this they still have managed to not clarify anything. -- ] 05:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
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	Moving Wikinfo into the mainspace would probably require a substantial rewrite and some refocusing. A ] that lists and describes all the fork/alternative projects (Scholarpedia, Conservapedia, Wikinfo, whatever) might be better - we'd need to avoid the appearence that there's any official affliation or endorsement. ]<font color="FF8800">]</font> 23:17, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
	:It shouldn't be too hard to to update. -- ] 23:21, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
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	Please would you make clear your comment "...''Take that for what you will'''" on ]? If that is addressed to me, you had better carefully have checked the situation before leaving the comment. --] (]) 13:40, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
	:It's a phrase that basically means "interpret that comment however you want", and it was addressed to everyone, but mostly to those listing a complaint about you. If anything, it was a comment in your defense. -- ] 21:44, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

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	for your comment. If this is an exception (that teachers use wiki as a host for class projects) would it be good to say that somewhere? As a member of the community and not knowing of exceptions, went ahead in good faith of the WP:NOT and don't know what happens now, ] (]) 07:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
	:My . -- ] 07:42, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
	::Thanks Ned, let it end naturally? or remove it. ] (]) 07:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

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	Sure, I can restore it. Where would you like it? I won't create an intentionally orphaned talk page, but I'd be happy to restore it to a subpage or somewhere else. Let me know. --] (]) 17:17, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
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	:It would still show up in the page's move log, right? So people could find it? A subpage of ] would be fine, probably. -- ] 20:39, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
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	::Restored, moved, and re-deleted with a note in the deletion log for passersby. I also added a link to the top of ]. Cheers. --] (]) 21:12, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

	== Out of the line of fire ==
	I'm not so sure. When one of the people voting against it says that he would rather see it be for six months, and tells me that ''there is no doubt that you and TTN are more responsible than others in this mess'', I don't feel that way. I really don't know what reality these people are in ... even if you accepted that exclusionism was evil, ranking me as #2 just seems bizarre. ] (]) 11:39, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 00:07, 19 November 2024

I'm not that active these days, but I'm still around. Feel free to send me an extra poke here or via e-mail for anything, trivial or important (or to just say hi).
E-mail: Special:Emailuser/Ned Scott

Archives • ℹ
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Reason for revert of syntax error fixes?

Is there a reason that you just did a bunch of reverts like this, of bot edits that fixed dozens of syntax errors in your talk page archives? – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:22, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes -- Ned Scott 19:23, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

That is not a helpful answer. Please provide an explanation. Those errors were fixed by an approved bot task. If there were errors in the bot edits, please specify what the bot did that you view as incorrect. You have restored errors of a couple of types that had been completely eliminated from the English Misplaced Pages, so your pages are likely to draw attention from editors who work to fix those errors. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:26, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

I understand, but do not wish to explain further. These are my talk page archives. Maybe I want to archive incorrect formatting? Maybe I'm just a jerk? Maybe I don't trust people to edit those pages for any reason, especially when they ignore the notice to not edit the pages and didn't bother to ask me about it. The reasons are mysterious. They're marked as archives and with nobots. -- Ned Scott 19:31, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Since it's not yours, you should supply a valid reason. Gonnym (talk) 19:38, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm not going to debate this. Leave my talk archives alone. -- Ned Scott 20:05, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Oh my god, I just took a closer look at what exactly you guys are doing, and it's not even fixing anything. You can't tell me that

]]

being changed to

]]

is doing anything necessary or fixing some kind of formatting issue. -- Ned Scott 20:16, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

Ned Scott: とある白い猫, WOSlinkerBot, Qwerfjkl, Tholme, Izno, CommonsDelinker, Jonesey95 and Gonnym are among numerous Wikipedians working diligently to eradicate lint errors from Misplaced Pages who have edited one or more of your talk page archives. The edit about which you are godsmacked is a correction of an Old behaviour of link-wrapping font tags lint error. The Wikimedia software that makes Misplaced Pages work preprocesses or parses Wiki markup (Wikitext) with a tool called a linter. Around 2019, Wikimedia replaced the old linter with a new linter. Under the old linter, ... immediately surrounding a wikilink or external link behaved as if the font tag were inside the link. That means that such font tags would override link colors. The new linter doen't work this way, and font color tags around a wikilink or external link don't override default link colors. This edit restores the display of Krimpet's signature to its original appearance, as everybody saw it, until the new linter came in. Old behaviour of link-wrapping font tags is considered a High Priority lint error, and we completely eradicated it from English Misplaced Pages. The only pages that have it now are your talk page archives.

Another High Priority lint error is Multiple unclosed formatting tags. The most common example of this error is a  tag closed with another  instead of . The old linter usually fixed this error silently, but the new linter regards this as two unclosed  tags, which means that everything following these tags is displayed double-small, all the way to the end of the page, unless the leak is contained by a table or some other structure. We completely eradicated Multiple unclosed formatting tags from English Misplaced Pages. The only pages that have it now are your talk page archives.

David Levy edited one of of your talk page archives to correct "buy" to "but" in his own comment. That's not unreasonable, but it might have been better to mark it up as <del>buy</del> <ins>but</ins>, i.e. ~~buy~~ but.

There is a theory held by a small number of Wiki editors that archives are a historical record that must never be changed. That theory is incorrect. On Misplaced Pages, we edit talk page archives all the time for a variety of reasons, including copyright violations, renaming of image files, and, yes, lint fixes. This is explicitly encouraged at WP:Linter. We have been doing this for years. Most users appreciate it. A few users question it, but nearly all of those come to respect it after we explain it. I hope you will come to respect and appreciate it also. Cheers! —Anomalocaris (talk) 22:10, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

It's an archive, and is already full of red links, missing images, regarding topics that lack context, and more. I don't agree that this is something that needs to be done. Regardless of the situation, bots still need to follow the nobots tag.

That being said, seeing as this is something that is showing up on a report, that means you guys will never stop bugging me about this. So I give up. -- Ned Scott 23:00, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

I see you have already self-reverted your reversions of lint fix edits of your talk page archive pages. Thank you for your cooperation. Cheers! —Anomalocaris (talk) 01:24, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

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BGerdemann (WMF) (talk) 19:29, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

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