Revision as of 10:16, 31 May 2008 editOkedem (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users5,989 editsm →Consensus← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 18:20, 12 December 2024 edit undoByVarying (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,481 edits →Requested move at Talk:Antisemitism during the Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 12 December 2024: new sectionTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Advanced mobile edit New topic | ||
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{{WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration}} | |||
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{{Press | |||
| subject = WikiProject | |||
| author = Jimmy Wales (opinion) | |||
| title = Misplaced Pages’s strength is in collaboration – as we’ve proved over 15 years | |||
| org = The Guardian | |||
| url = http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/15/wikipedia-israel-palestine-15-years-encyclopedia | |||
| date = 15 January 2016 | |||
| quote = It seems counterintuitive that Misplaced Pages, a website open for anyone in the world to edit, could be a reliable source of information for one of the world’s deeply contested issues. And it is true that finding neutrality – a cornerstone policy of Misplaced Pages – under these circumstances is a serious challenge. And yet, WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration is working to make Misplaced Pages the most balanced reference point for anyone seeking information about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, while breaking down barriers in the process. The project aims to engage people in building bridges and weaving together viewpoints from both sides in an effort to create a “truly bilateral” narrative. As the world’s primary free and open reference on the issue, Misplaced Pages has taken on the role of a sort of digital truth and reconciliation commission. | |||
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| root = Wikipedia_talk:{{PAGENAME}} |'''Old article discussions'''<br> | |||
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'''Old discussions by topic:'''<br>] <br>]<br> | |||
'''Old project discussions''' | |||
*2008 ] ] ] | |||
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== "Al-Aqsa is in danger" == | |||
'''''See also:''' ]'' | |||
Hello, I'm sure you're all very busy at the moment, but am looking for third-party input on something. An editor made a very large addition to the small page ] which appears to me to seriously skew the article's tone and compromise its NPOV. It seemed relatively good and neutral (if short) before, but certainly the additions appear very much to push it in one direction. I've laid out what I think are the problems on ] and on the ], but have gotten no response. To avoid an edit war, would appreciate if someone (or multiple someones) would take a look. Thanks! ] (]) 10:10, 8 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
==''Talk Page Guidelines''== | |||
Here are guidelines for this page. (These guidelines may be discussed ].) | |||
<span style="color:#0000f1"> | |||
*''Please stay on topic.''</span> Our topic here is to discuss how to edit the WikiProject page and, concomitantly, the project's objectives and activities. | |||
*For general discussion of Israeli-Palestinian issues and how to edit them, you might check out the more free-ranging discussion of our ]. Long comments and off-topic sections may be refactored there as needed. You can also make a brief statement (e.g., 3-5 lines) in the members section, below. | |||
<span style="color:#0000f1"> | |||
* ''Please observe WP expectations''</span>, including ]. Let's try to ] and ] as we figure out how to collaborate together! Do not use page as a ]. | |||
* Archiving: Discussion sections should be marked Done, Resolved or otherwise closed by moderators. After a reasonably short time, such sections will be archived (the heading might be left in somewhat longer as FYI). Agreements and successes can be recorded under ]. | |||
<span style="color:#0000f1"> | |||
* ''Our discussions are moderated.''</span> ] (and excessive ]) will be deleted. Moderators can mark any off-topic conversation or soapboxing for deletion, or to move to ]. Progress can be marked as Done or Resolved, etc. | |||
== Nakba denial == | |||
{{archive box|]<br>]}} | |||
__TOC__ | |||
I have created a page on the subject of ] - a topic of some weight in literature on the historiography of the Arab-Israeli conflict. I have barely scratched the surface of the available source, having prioritized the most readily accessible ones. There may very well be some gaping gaps, not least in that I don't have access to any of the best Ilan Pappé material, so haven't been able to directly quote him. More eyes welcome. ] (]) 19:25, 20 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
==Background== | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
This page comes out of suggestions made at an ]. The initial work is borrowed shamelessly from ]. Folks are welcome to edit this extensively (or to delete, if it does not become active). Thanks. ] | ] 13:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC) | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — ]] 15:09, 21 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
==Member statements== | |||
] | |||
Here is a section to say something about yourself and your interest in working collaboratively in the I-P topic area. Examples may be seen from the ]. Currently, there are no specific criteria and all are welcome to join. Perhaps '''certain criteria are implicit'''; for example, that members engage in deliberately civil conversation, follow Talk and editing etiquette, and only make big changes to this WikiProject after discussion here. Thanks. ] | ] 17:09, 16 January 2008 (UTC) | |||
An editor has requested that ] be moved to another page, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You  are invited to participate in ].<!-- from Template:RM notice--> ] (]) 20:28, 22 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
:It might help if people articulated their role(s)/goals with the topic or WikiProject. For instance, you might say if you're available to mediate, or uninvolved admin to enforce policies, or an active editor w/an identifiable point-of-view. Ideally, the project could call upon some "good cop/bad cop" teams when heated disputes arise at an article. Thanks. ] | ] 20:26, 16 January 2008 (UTC) | |||
== ] == | |||
*Hi, this project is a wonderful idea! Come to me for help with images (cropping, rotation, restoration) - I'd be glad to help prepare photographs for ], particularly historic material. Also glad to help with dispute resolution. Regards, <font face="Verdana">]</font><sup>'']''</sup> 21:08, 16 January 2008 (UTC) | |||
*] I sometimes regret wearing my apparent sympathies so openly, at other times it's been useful. Think of me a bit like ], having absolutely no dog in this race (as she had none in the Boer War), other than the interest we all share in "peace'n'justice". And the accuracy of the historical record - I have a particular objection to hate-sources. (More on that elsewhere) I have never concealed or attempted to conceal anything that might be "disreputable" to the Palestinian "cause", nor ever (that I'm aware of) used anything doubtful about Israel. This "I-P conflict" is well documented in good sources, so even when there is reasonable room for two different scripts, it should not be difficult to write both up properly/fairly. I look forwards to my first invitation to "write for the enemy", and the first acceptance of an invitation from me to do so. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 12:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC) | |||
*As an introduction, I should say that I spent three months touring around Misplaced Pages before I dared show my face and self-graduate to newbie status; I should also say that my POV-powered vehicle is heavily loaded with a very long (literally geologic) sense of history and historical perspective; I believe that perspective, and others also, can be called truly encyclopedic. ] is the first wiki-anything I have joined. I too believe that the difficult issues should be tackled first; it is synonymous to the ] and leaving the ‘final status’ issues for later evolutionary work. ... Shalom, Salaam, Peace. ] (]) 07:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC) | |||
*Hello! I'm a pretty uninvolved editor in I-P and other Middle East articles (until I discover something I just have to edit ;). I'm over at medcab, and that's my main role at the moment, and it's there I come across Israeli-Palestinian related discussion. I'm happy to see an Israeli-Palestinian Collaboration project, and am hopeful that it will help and do good things for the future :) I suppose there isn't much for me to say. Here's a nice quote I heard once, though: "seek context; flee abstraction". Words to live by, imo :) ] (]) 19:14, 4 February 2008 (UTC) | |||
*''(These comments by ] would be a fine statement, if he joins!)'' On principle, I support any kind of initiative that leads to 1) better adherence to NPOV, 2) more informative articles, and 3) better written articles. I have no reason to doubt the intent of those who are initiating this Wikiproject and would encourage them to continue. But I think I'd be doing them and the other well-meaning editors a disservice if I didn't express my reservations candidly. My biggest fear is that this becomes an alibi, a safe haven, for POV-pushers. I can all too easily imagine a scenario where an editor comes running her with an edit dispute, finds other editors sympathetic to his/her point of view, and then uses their support as a basis for claiming "consensus." There are too many editors on this particular issue who claim to be absolutely neutral, but are anything but neutral, whether they realize this or not. ''(Moved w/permission. ] | ]) <small>—Preceding ] was added at 11:23, 10 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
* Hi, I'm an uninvolved admin who's here to help out as needed. I'm currently a member of the ArbCom-created ], and creator/moderator of the ]. I'm also currently updating various dispute resolution processes around Misplaced Pages, and am paying close attention to longrunning disputes to see how we can improve our procedures and/or enforcement. I've been a professional online community manager for over 15 years, long before I was involved with Misplaced Pages, and my own "style" tends to be a bit more on the enforcement side, but I also do a great deal of mediating and mentoring. If I can be of assistance, let me know! :) --]]] 22:01, 30 April 2008 (UTC) | |||
I'm spinning this off the main article because it's taking up quite a lot of space and almost certainly will continue to expand with an Israeli ground incursion into Gaza. You're welcome to help me get this ready for the mainspace. --] ] 01:51, 24 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Trouble at ] == | |||
''Discussion of this request stopped about a month ago, so the thread has been archived. See the article or mediation/DR effforts for current status of the dispute. (Or restart new thread as needed.) Thanks.'' ] | ] 21:23, 18 March 2008 (UTC) | |||
== ] == | |||
FYI Mediation which started March 14 is still going on and on with the article locked because of constant reverting and re-editing by two sides of issue (one side - mostly one editor and people who come in to support his reversions - wanting to stress antisemitic uses of term; other side of 5-7 independent editors who want to include more of NON-antisemitic uses to make article more accurate and NPOV -obviously sie I'm on). But it's just over and over the same ground with mediator sometimes helping and sometimes not. Fact that article locked makes it difficult to put in and keep edits we agree on. So I guess will have to bring that up. I just wish there was a way of really dealing with editors who are almost peofessionals at ]. They teach others of us bad habits, too. Just frustrated. Carol Moore 03:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)] ] | |||
An editor has started an RfC asking "Should ] by Hamas be included in the ]?" at ]. Interested editors are invited to participate. ]<sup>]</sup> 23:10, 24 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Recent links to antisemitism article inserted into ] == | |||
== Limiting or merging single-event stubs (in war navbox) == | |||
Yesterday ] inserted a load of see also links into Anti-Zionism connecting to articles on antisemitism. I reversed one of them (not noticing at the time that he/she had added the others). ] has now reversed my reversion. My view is that inserting such links is POV through equating anti-Zionism with antisemitism. What do other people think?--] (]) 14:06, 5 April 2008 (UTC) | |||
:Hello, | |||
:Equating antizionism to antisemitism is of course not acceptable. | |||
:But I am not sure that adding a ''see also : Anti-globalization and antisemitism'' at the top of the article has this meaning. | |||
:Personnally, I see this as meaning there is a ''link'' between both. No more, no less | |||
:... | |||
:] (]) 21:38, 5 April 2008 (UTC) | |||
I've been seeing a lot of minor war events getting their own articles, which are 90% navboxes and background and 'see also' links to war lists. They often draw on twitter posts or less reputable sources. They are also rapidly added to the navboxes (which are on a lot of high-traffic pages), making those much less useful and perhaps confusing readers who click through a few serious articles and then end up on a dodgy, thinly sourced stub. | |||
::Thanks for your changes. I don't mind so much material in the see also section at the end of the article. It was the insertion of the antismitism see alsos in the antizionism sections that got me.--] (]) 16:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC) | |||
I made routine merges of the Daraghmeh + KY articles, which were reverted; the former now somewhat inefficiently sitting through AfD, the latter a draft. What's a smooth way to set a style guideline for what gets a navbox-level article / what should be developed in draft-space? | |||
::I more or less agree with Ceedjee. They ''are'' linked topics, if only because antisemites have realized that fake "anti-Zionism" is a good way to softpedal their views (cf Stalin, David Duke, et al.) <]/]]> 17:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::Hello Peter, | |||
:::In fact, I didn't realize immediately what you was referring to. | |||
:::From my point of view (as you have seen in my last edits in the article) it is not acceptable to add at the top of each section, a link to "antisemitism". So, I try to "neutralize" this. I hope this will not produce difficult discussions. | |||
:::@Eleland. I share your mind too. ] (]) 09:19, 7 April 2008 (UTC) | |||
::::Well, thanks again. I wanted to bring things here for more neutral comment rather than make a second revert at once and risk becoming a major antogonist on one side of an edit war. And yes the anti-Zionism as a cover and trigger of antisemitism is something I'm well aware of. The link has kept me away from from various activities of the ].--] (]) 09:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC) | |||
'''Examples''': | |||
==CAMERA emails brouhaha== | |||
These 3 all started out quoting unreliable pro-military sources; nothing notable + no details | |||
In case anyone missed it, there was a brouhaha over ] emails trying to secretly organize pro-Israel and anti-Palestine editing here and sanctions put on some editors, including at least one mentioned above. See ] and ] for details. Now to figure out how to deal with certain aggressive partisan editors who manage to dance just within the rules while keeping article POV pro-Israel. Carol Moore 16:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)] ] | |||
*] - pending deletion, edit war over merge | |||
: This is the right place to talk about it. :) Please bring up any incidents that you notice. --]]] 20:25, 30 April 2008 (UTC) | |||
*] - hardly mentioned | |||
*] (]) - very minor, edit war over merge | |||
These simply don't need their own article: | |||
::<s>Excellent</s> some idea and approach all around. it's great how you called attention to anyone who keeps an article "pro-Israel" while dancing within the rules. | |||
*] - not notable; maybe eventually part of notable pattern. not obviously part of this conflict | |||
*] - odd title, minor | |||
*] - minor | |||
These might be kept if improved : | |||
::I assume you feel you did not say anything offensive, since your comment was entirely within the bounds of the rules here. So how about if we in turn do our part to keep an eye out for "aggressive partisan editors who manage to dance just within the rules while keeping article POV anti-Israel." --] (]) 20:44, 30 April 2008 (UTC) | |||
*] - only one of these major enough to potentially have an article | |||
::: Excellent, thank you. :) --]]] 21:39, 30 April 2008 (UTC) | |||
*] - terrible naming + list convention started w/ the Russian invasion of Ukraine | |||
::::thanks for your positive response; however, as you can see though, I have changed my answer slightly. thanks. --] (]) 13:59, 1 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
<span style="color:#666">– ]]</span> 03:44, 25 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
:Glad someone is trying to tackle this thorny issue. A few minutes after (some event) happens, odds are good that someone will try to make an article out of it. Criteria would be good, but do you mean only for AI/IP articles? ] (]) 17:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
::::Like anything else it's all a mater of degree. i.e., one editor who constantly pulls every trick in the book to keep out reliably sourced negative info about Israel by 10 editors is a lot worse than one editor who tries to put in a less than reliable negative allegation that no editor bothers to defend when others delete it. I've seen far more of the former than the latter. And there are many negative facts about Israel that should be reported, just like there are lots about the US and South African (then and now) and Zimbabwe. Defending people's favorite nation states from reliably sourced allegations is not wikipedia's job. Carol Moore 16:03, 1 May 2008 (UTC)] ] | |||
:: Wars are one of the few events that generate such a proliferation of stubs and nav-links, and attract editors who fight over them rather than merging into a few informative articles. This war and the Russian invasion of Ukraine are the recent examples I've seen. We ideally could point people on navbox talk pages to standard guidelines for how to keep them useful. <span style="color:#666">– ]]</span> 06:15, 27 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Discussion at ] == | |||
:::::Carol and Steve, I think we all agree that any off-Wiki canvassing — whether anti-Israel or pro-Israel, anti-Palestinian or pro-Palestinian — is inappropriate. Evidence recently came to light about an effort to create an "army" of pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian editors. The existence of another group of editors looking to "combat" anti-Palestinian and pro-Israel bias was also discovered. | |||
:::::The nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is such that it attracts editors with deeply-held views. If they don't share your POV, they're "aggressive partisan editors who manage to dance just within the rules while keeping article POV". If you agree with their POV, they're upholding Misplaced Pages's core principles of ], ], and ]. | |||
:::::Instead of looking under every rock and behind every tree for "aggressive partisan editors", let's all try to avoid appearing to others — especially those with the "wrong" POV — as "aggressive partisan editors". — ] (] '''·''' ]) 00:10, 2 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::::::I agree with Malik Shabazz. Not appearing to others as "agressive partisan editors" is a first good step in the process of developing these difficult articles in wikipedia where there are numerous contributors with different cultures, different sensitivities and different pov's. ] (]) 08:57, 2 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::::::We must keep our wits about us - it's not just that this CAMERA business was a serious, blatant attempt to cheat. It came to light because one or more editors were coming to believe they were untouchable. No matter how blatantly they cheated in their editing (most infuriatingly for good editors, removing good information), it seemed that the project was incapable of dealing with them and wouldn't pull them up for anything. ] was being actively encouraged in this conduct, as many of us recognised. ]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 17:25, 9 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
You are invited to join the discussion at ]. Your contributions would be appreciated. ] (]) 17:27, 30 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
== An idea worth trying? == | |||
== ] == | |||
(Crossposting) | |||
Experienced editors are invited to look at the recent work at this article. ] (]) 10:32, 31 October 2023 (UTC) | |||
Hi, here's a thought that might do some good with the Israeli-Palesinian dispute on AE. Today I was chatting with an editor from Serbia. Mentioned the Serbian-Croatian ethnic disputes on en:Wiki and he surprised me by telling me the Serbian and Croatian Wikipedias actually get along pretty well. Basically what happened was some guys packed into a car, drove to Zagreb, and shook some hands. Then some other guys packed into another car, drove to Belgrade, and shook some hands. Once they saw that they were all pretty normal people, things calmed down a lot. | |||
== ]: Methodology & Translations == | |||
Maybe there's a way we can replicate that. Would you be willing to try a voice chat on Skype? I've noticed that when Misplaced Pages editors get into a conference call, with voices instead of just text, it's easier to find common ground. Wishing you well, <font face="Verdana">]</font><sup>'']''</sup> 06:33, 29 April 2008 (UTC) | |||
:I am very open to the idea and find it very interesting. I congratulate the Serbian and Croatian Wikipedians for such a big step - though it took only a few steps. I am thinking of proposing it at ] and ] as well. -- ] - <small>]</small> 06:58, 1 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
Having concluded my sabbatical, and having found this project, I'm ready to dive in again where angels fear to dive. Currently I'm taking a more narrow focus, working backwards as events become clearer in retrospect (the historiography will come later); too, reliable sources have begun to assemble their own timelines. If anyone wants to undertake massive improvements large or small, feel free! | |||
== Massacres == | |||
For reference, these have been my sources to date: Al Jazeera, BBC, The Forward, The Guardian, Times of Israel, Haaretz, Middle East Eye, NYT, and to an extent the think tank ]. | |||
moved to ] per ] request.<br/> | |||
] (]) 22:25, 13 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
Secondly, the first translation was into Chinese. There are now six. Although I'm a monoglot, I can tell that the French was, at least initially, a straight up translation whereas the German is definitely its own creature. The most recent, surprisingly, is Arabic. Just as surprisingly, Hebrew has yet to appear! Is anyone more knowledgeable keeping an eye on these narratives? | |||
==Unreliable sources charges of antisemitism== | |||
Sometimes I clean up biographies of people critical of Israel, deleting obviously POV, unsourced or dubiously sourced statements per WP:BLP, of which there often are many. I now have a case where small time lefty publications -- and an article by an editor of the page -- are used to charge antisemitism against someone who ''does'' defend their reputation and probably has threatened law suits to get mainstream editorial access to defend his reputation. Thinking ] calls for caution in these cases, I brought these examples to ]. Where the offending editor defended them and another editor gave a reply inferring but not stating they might be deleted. I guess I'll finally bring it to the talk page, but would like a more expedient way of dealing with issue - besides just reverting away per WP:BLP rules. Anyway, I wonder if people in general have found it more of a problem to get such accusations removed as unreliable on antisemitism charges than on other charges. Thanks. Carol Moore 15:12, 13 May 2008 (UTC)] ] | |||
:Is this linked to the I-P conflict ? | |||
:Whatever, if there is a source, and if the statement is "according to *a precise name*, Mr X is antisemite because *arguments* ", then it should be ok for wikipedia. | |||
:Everything less cautious should be forbiden. | |||
:] (]) 15:49, 13 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::Although I don't want to export the discussion to this page too, I want to note that, although there are indeed allegations of antisemitism on the page in question, most of these are in sources which ] does not propose to delete (including ] and ]), and none are in the "small time lefty publications" she mentions above. Unfortunately, misuse of the serious charge of antisemitism against opponents of Israeli policy has served to delegitimise and discredit the term even when it might be appropriately used. ] (]) 16:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::Firt, glad to see you are a reader of this page. :-) | |||
:::Second, are you saying that if a reliable source says something negative and potentially libelous, then you can pile on less reliable sources - including your own writings? Actually I think a couple of them should be deleted on the grounds of piling on! WP:UNDUE and all that. For one thing, reliable sources usually cover their butts by publishing replies from the person attacked, as The Guardian did twice. But I guess it's just time to bring it to the talk page since definitive answers not coming up else wheres. Carol Moore 16:16, 13 May 2008 (UTC)] ] | |||
] (]) 13:16, 8 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
::::There is a related discussion here: | |||
::::] --] (]) 23:08, 27 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
: Welcome to the project, ]. Thank you in particular for your focus on RS. I agree that all of those you list meet ]. ◅ ] ] 08:46, 9 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
==Jerusalem as the capital of Israel== | |||
The articles ] and ] state in their leads that "Jerusalem is the capital of Israel". I don't believe it's factual to state this in the leads; the status of Jerusalem is highly debatable; most of the world countries (if not all) consider East Jerusalem to be occupied by Israel, whereas Israel announced that "Jerusalem, complete and united, is the capital of Israel". IMO, the leads of the two article ]; the Israeli view. ] (]) 12:04, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:The status of Jerusalem is indeed complex, and that complexity is conveyed in ]. However, can you find a reliable encyclopedia or atlas which states that the capital of Israel is not Jerusalem? -- ] (]) 12:46, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::My argument here is not claiming that "the capital of Israel is not Jerusalem", my argument is that the two articles (and any other article) must not tell the reader in their leads that "Jerusalem is the capital of Israel" as a fact, this is controversial, the articles must not assume and present <s>facts</s> judgments about that in the leads. | |||
::Please take a look at Jerusalem definition in and , both articles present the controversy before presenting any <s>facts</s> judgments, and I think this is fair. ] (]) 13:02, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::I see. Both articles have an endnote next to the statement, explaining the legal issue. -- ] (]) 13:25, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::::I don't think we should be promoting minority views in the leading paragraphs and then explain the full context in endnotes where no one reads them. I think we must explain the full context in the lead, before we make any judgments. ] (]) 13:38, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::::On controversial topics, in particular, Wiki likely should not make that type of mental gymnastics necessary. If it is controversial, both/all sides should be in the lede with a 'see below' come-on. That would be, imo, nearer NPOV. ] (]) 14:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:While countries have chosen to locate their embassies elsewhere, and not recognize Jerusalem as the capital, that cannot change the basic fact of it being a capital. By the very definition of capital - "seat of government", Jerusalem is the de-facto capital - containing the parliament, government offices, supreme court, president's quarters, PM's quarters, etc; And by Israeli law it is the de-jure capital. It serves the function of capital in Israel, and is under Israel's control. Whether or not it should be is a different matter, and that is the subject of the dispute. International recognition is not, and has never been, a requirement for a capital. ] (]) 13:40, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::Okedem is right. The de-facto status should come first. I guess the editors didn't want the lead section to become a legal debate instead of a description of the city. Perhaps some rewording is possible, though. And we shouldn't assume nobody reads endnotes. -- ] (]) 13:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::Hi, Okedem, long time, no see. You are both correct from your pov, which must be addressed in the lede, as must others. In this particular case, the key words we Wikipedians must grapple with are the ones upon which RSs are based; those must include 'claimed', 'recognized', 'de facto' and 'de jure', I believe, as well as any non-fringe others. If anyone tries to hang too-tough, it is harder to have a collaborative effort. Is that about right? ] (]) 14:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:Worth noting: First, states in the lead paragraph "Jerusalem is the capital and the seat of government". No ifs, buts, or any mention of controversy. Second, ]. This issue has been discussed so many times, including via RfCs, every time with the conclusion being "no consensus" or "Jerusalem ''is'' the capital". I can't see this discussion concluding any differently. '''''] ]''''' 14:11, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::::Misplaced Pages has the potential to, at moments, be far better than Encylopedia Britannica. One of the strengths here is the representation of underrepresented facts. Why not just re-phrase okedem: | |||
::::"By Israeli law, Jerusalem is the de-jure capital of Israel, de-facto containing the parliament, government offices, Supreme Court, President's quarters, and Prime Ministers's quarters. However Jerusalem has not been recognized internationally as the capital of Israel, and many countries that see Jerusalem as equally the capital of the future Palestinian state, or view the city as a shared international heritage site that should be governed by a range of stakeholders locally and worldwide, have chosen to locate their embassies in Tel Aviv."] (]) 17:46, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:: It helps that whatever the editorial stance, they're dealing with brute fact. ] (]) 13:48, 14 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
(outdent) | |||
Yes, they ought to say "declared capital" in the lede rather than "capital." I recall getting into a fairly ridiculous war over this on ], and being scolded about how Jerusalem is a FEATURED ARTICAL!!1 and thus this has previously been discussed and we have CONSANSUS!!1 and arguing about it is DESRUPTIVE!!1; if I recall, the featured article review (and this is a broken process in itself) actually contained no discussion of the "capital" issue. What I'm saying is that if you intend to make this change, be prepared for false claims of consensus, personal invective and probable claims of antisemitism, openly hypocritical double standards, copypasta from CAMERA-like websites, blizzards of citations, laughably fallacious arguments... basically your standard day's work on an Israel-related article :P <]/]]> 17:56, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Declarations of War == | |||
:Well, it's good to see you're maintaining a positive, friendly attitude. | |||
:Jerusalem answers the definition of the word "capital", and so it is the capital. Both de-jure, and de-facto. International recognition has no bearing on the concept of capital. ] (]) 18:02, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::Jerusalem is the capital of Israel (de-facto), and consensus has been reached about that (de-facto) !! | |||
::Okedem, about your repeated argument that the seat of government is in Jerusalem, and that's why it is the capital by definition. Please note that the seat of government is in '''West''' Jerusalem, and that makes a big difference; East Jerusalem is occupied, and no logic can define it as the capital of Israel. ] (]) 20:40, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::Imad, the capital of a country is chosen by that country only, and other countries, as Okedem said, have absolutely no say in it. Israeli law does not differentiate 'west' Jerusalem from 'east' Jerusalem. Instead, the municipal boundaries of Jerusalem are well-defined and represent the Israeli capital. The international dispute, as has been stated above, is well-documented on Misplaced Pages, in many footnotes and refs, as well as its very own article - ]. -- ] <sup>(])</sup> 20:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::There's no city called "West Jerusalem"; no such an entity. Israeli law holds for both sides of the city, and there's no difference between them in that respect. The entire city functions as the capital. The last international plan for Jerusalem called for a corpus seperatum, international control of the entire city, for 10 years. Afterwards the residents would decide its fate, via a referendum. (By the way, as Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority since the 19th century, we can guess the results of such a referendum). In 1948, as the Arabs rejected the partition plan and were moving to capture the city, so did the Jews. Jordan's control over East Jerusalem was no more "legal" than Israel's control of it now. East Jerusalem is not claimed by any country other than Israel (Jordan dropped its claims a long way back), and so the only sovereign of East Jerusalem is the de-facto one, Israel. The whole dispute is of whether this '''should''' be so, what should be done. But the current facts cannot be changed. Whatever happens with Jerusalem in the future, cannot change its current function as capital. ] (]) 21:04, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
* I just want to add, in reply to those who affirm okedem that the de facto status should come first (I agree with his point) that I added the info about the ambassies, SEcond, and it was instantly deleted. So even when someone does not argue with the de facto status, it seems that people are unwilling to see the other points of view represented in conjunction - the approach seems to marginalize the controversey in a way which is misleading.] (]) 03:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
: According to the edit history it was instantly deleted because there was a prior consensus on the current structure of the lead sentence, see ]. Although consensus can change it requires discussion on the talk page to determine whether consensus has changed and how. Apart from that, your edit was imprecise and unsourced, it's not asked to much to spend at least a bit of effort when editing a featured article (or any article, for that matter). ] (]) 06:55, 15 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
I've been casting about for the formal Israeli declaration of war by invocation of Article 40A –the actual Knesset/Security Cabinet paperwork– as well as a transcription of ]'s announcement in full. All I'm finding are bits and pieces. ] (]) 13:55, 14 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
Jerusalem has been the center of dispute for a very long time, and the center of deadly wars and long peace negotiations. Both britannica and encarta don't define Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. East Jerusalem is considered to be occupied by the international community. Jerusalem is not recognized by the world countries as Israel's capital. Are we going to ignore all that and just say "Jerusalem is the capital of Israel" just because Israel has de-facto control of it? | |||
Maybe we need ] here to see if we really have consensus that the leads should state that "Jerusalem is the capital of Israel". ] (]) 11:07, 15 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:"''Both britannica and encarta don't define Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.''" - clearly you have not read my comment above about . '''''] ]''''' 12:18, 15 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:: Please read ] as the relevant guideline - ] has been rejected by the community. And yes, we should ignore all this and state Jerusalem is the capital plus a footnote with additional explanations. We should deal with facts, and fact is that Jerusalem as the seat of the government is the de-facto capital, and with the Jerusalem law it is also the offical capital. As there is no concept of a capital and hence international recognition of a capital saying something like the international community does not accept Jerusalem as Israels capital is imprecise and misleading. What the international community does not accept is that East Jerusalem is part of Israel, what is not the same. So in abscence of a legal definition capital we should go with the dictionary, and according to the dictionary definition Jerusalem is the capital. ] (]) 13:27, 15 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
== ] == | |||
''(Hi. I'm wondering if this conversation would be more suitable to the ] or Positions article Talk page. Alternatively, since this is an issue that does cut across various articles and template(s), perhaps it would be fruitful to focus less on the debate itself right now, and think about how/where the question can be tackled. How can IPCOLL contribute to this question? Thanks. ] | ] 14:39, 15 May 2008 (UTC)) | |||
::Well I suggest that one benefit of IP COLL might be that some of the discussions here can occur on some of the same ''topics'' as those at regaular talk pages, but that they would theoretically be pursued by different ''people''; ie, those who have joined IP COLL, or those who have some commitment or interest in making a project like this succeed. so i would tentatively suggest that discussions like this ''can'' proceed forward here, but only with certain considerations in mind; for instance, that the goal here is to find common ground between two viewpoints and/or communities. --] (]) 15:08, 15 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::: That's one problem, this discussion pops up everywhere (at the moment at ], ]). Another problem is that this is discussed again and again. Whenever it seem settled, and consensus has been achieved, it is almost guaranteed that a few weeks/months later the discussion starts again. While consensus can change, I don't see why this has to be discussed anew on an almost monthly basis. ] (]) 15:18, 15 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::::By the way novidmarana and okedem are right. jerusalem ''is'' the capital. what the article can say is that various nations refuse to recognize it as such. thanks. --] (]) 15:21, 15 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
Does this have merit as an article? Happy for anyone to contribute :) ] (]) 14:56, 14 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
:Sigh... this again. Does Israel consider Jerusalem its capital? Yes. Is its executive branch headed there? Yes. Judicial branch? Yes. Legislative branch? Yes. Most governmental services? Yes. I don't know guys, but that sounds like a capital to me. It doesn't matter how many countries don't recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital and claim it should be Tel Aviv or New York or Abu Dhabi. The fact is that Jerusalem is considered by Israel as its capital and functions as such. This is not one country's "point-of-view"; it's clear fact. Look up the word ''capital'' in any dictionary and you will find that recognition from a quorum of countries is not necessary for a city to be one. ''Jeez''. People, on and (more importantly) off Misplaced Pages, need to quit harping on trivial issues like this one, get over this decades-long conflict, and move on with their lives already. -- ''']''' 19:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::How's this, as a way to keep topics from reoccuring? We could create archive files, with the topic in the title. such as: ], ]. We could then list such archive pages, so that everyone could look up the consensus arrived at there. this might also be a good way to record various article compromises. does that sound good? --] (]) 20:45, 15 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::: That is done already, sort of on the ], the link above the main body and below the wikiproject boxes. Apparently this is ignored by most, as discussion start on this topic start again and again, whenever a new editor arrives who thinks that his personal POV is not well represented. ] (]) 21:09, 15 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::::I understand, but I think it might be useful for ] to have its own archives as well, to relfect the fact that, as you mentioned, discussions seems to keep restarting and stopping. '''i have copied the discussion here so far at ].''' At some point, we could remove the discussion from this talk page, once it has reached a conclusion and/or some sort of consensus. please feel free to leave any comments on this procedure. thanks. --] (]) 15:30, 29 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::::As a resource for editors, I think it would be useful for IPCOLL to set up a list of key disputed terms (etc) and where they have been discussed. On Jerusalem, for instance, we could mention ]. The disputed terms could be listed on the main project page, with a link to a subpage(s) that contains all the discussion links. My 2 cents. Be well, ] | ] 06:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:It does. Eventually a proposal will get traction... ] (]) 01:49, 15 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
From the exchanges above I understand that only stating that 'Jerusalem is the capital' in unbalanced. We could comply to ] by adding 'competing views' wherever 'Jerusalem is the capital' is mentioned. For example either we state competing facts in lead or we state none (optionnaly to be replaced by 'West Jerusalem is the biggest city' or something avoiding the 'capital' word). ] (]) 13:01, 18 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
: |
::On second thought, now that as of this writing an inaugural ceasefire is holding, ceasefires are the salient matter. Calls for ceasefires are a matter for our coverage of protests and such, methinks. ] (]) 14:34, 27 November 2023 (UTC) | ||
== ] == | |||
These arguments over semantics are so wearying. Why make a principle out of a word? If people dislike the word capital, why not use something else? "Jerusalem is the seat of government" - doesn't sound that bad, and means the same thing. Remember, all these these nuances - this means that, that means the other - they are all beyond the typical reader. The typical reader will never notice that the article says "seat of government" and not "capital". --] (]) 16:55, 29 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
The page ] is a disaster of a piece of content at present. It's almost wholly unsourced, could potentially be a personal essay, and the only sources are some op-eds, not scholarship. It's so dysfunctional that it borders on a ] case, but I thought it might be worth flagging it as a doer-upper first. ] (]) 22:18, 18 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
:No. Not only are these not the same, this would be succumbing to political pressure, telling us what words we can use, despite having absolutely no factual backing to those claims. It's the capital, by the very definition of the word - and thus, we should say it is, even if some people don't like it. This is the sort of thing that determines our credibility. Do we surrender in face of political opposition, or do we state the facts. ] (]) 18:21, 29 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:This isn't within our ambit, or at least not yet. Let's wait for the ] to happen before we have our own ]. And not to put too fine a point on it, the last item on the Post-Zionism's talk page is dated 27 June 2013, so no controversy there. (] 11 March 2022 likewise). ] (]) 14:00, 20 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
Looking at how other encyclopedias define Jerusalem and Israel: | |||
{| class="wikitable" | |||
|- | |||
! *** | |||
! Jerusalem | |||
! Israel | |||
|- | |||
| Britannica | |||
| | |||
| | |||
|- | |||
| Encarta | |||
| | |||
| | |||
|} | |||
== Proposed mergers at ] == | |||
The only article that states that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel is Britannica's definition of Israel, all other article say: "claim that ...". So looking at those articles makes me think that we are not neutral here. ] (]) 07:46, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
Editors have proposed merging the articles ] and ] into ], which are of interest to this WikiProject. | |||
You are invited join the discussions at {{slink|Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis#Proposed merger}} and {{slink|Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis#Proposed merger 2}}.—] 17:45, 19 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
:The editorial decision of other encyclopedias are of no concern. Only the facts are. And whether we like it or not, whether or not we believe that Jerusalem should be the capital - it is. It fulfills the requirements of a capital city, namely - seat of governments, and is the declared capital. International recognition has no bearing on this. Thus - we say it is the capital. ] (]) 08:12, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Article idea: Israeli settler organizations == | |||
::Can you provide even one solid non-aligned source which specifically states that "international recognition has no bearing" on a state's right to declare occupied foreign territory as part of its capital? I don't care how many ]s you can quote - I want you to prove this supposed objective, factual standard is generally accepted. Simply repeating "It's the ]!!" doesn't impress. <]/]]> 08:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
It may be worth creating ], covering orgs that support settlements, like ], ], Nahalat Shimon International, Hashomer Yosh, and Israel Land Fund, and nonprofits that financially support those orgs like Friends of Ir David and the ] . We have articles on some of the individual orgs but no overarching article. ] (]) 08:41, 7 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
:::You are the one who has to prove that the widely used definition of capital requires international recognition. I've already shown that no such requirement exists in the definition, as any simple dictionary will show. ] (]) 09:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::::Do you want a dictionary definition that says: "capital is ... under the condition it is not occupied"? Jerusalem is a unique case, East Jerusalem is occupied by definition and by international recognition, so it's kind of "wrong" to simply say "Jerusalem is the capital of Israel". ] (]) 09:27, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Renewed calls for a two-state solution == | |||
I've been trying to find a suitable place in Misplaced Pages for mentions of items such as Thomas Friedman's 14 Nov 2023 in the NYT or the 14 Dec 2023 from 27 Jewish leaders to President Biden, both calling for a two-state solution. Is there an existing article which would be an appropriate home for such items? If not, should we create a new article? Thanks ] (]) 14:56, 19 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
:Please could someone respond to my question. Another relevant piece has come to my attention, called "", by Michael Koplow and Shira Efron. ] (]) 15:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
===Facts=== | |||
::] fits the bill. ] (]) 18:26, 20 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
Some people seem to be asserting that certain things are facts as if they are not subject to argument and unproblematic. Tautologies (such as "big things are large") and various mathematical and logical statements are uncomplicatedly facts. Various statements about the physical world ("the Earth is round") are facts unless one is getting philosophical. But when we come to social and political concepts, then the concept of "fact" is often contested. The status of Jerusalem is just such a contested fact, as are, say, those of Kosovo, Taiwan, Northern Cyprus etc. NPOV says that we do not take such alleged facts on face value. I notice that some people are claiming both these positions: | |||
:::I was hesitant about adding such items to that article as there doesn't seem to be a suitable place in the article's structure. But if that's the best article to use, then I/we will need to tweak the structure. Any suggestions? Should I/we create a new top-level section after section "Public opinion in Israel and Palestine"? And what would be a good name for such a section? Thanks ] (]) 19:19, 20 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
::::I've created a section titled "Renewed focus on two-state solution". Your input and comments are very much welcome. ] (]) 23:32, 20 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
:Perhaps ]. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 00:43, 21 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
::Or would ] be a better fit? ] (]) 00:48, 21 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
#Jerusalem is one undivided place. In particular, there is no such thing as West Jerusalem. This place is part of Israel. | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 13:03, 6 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
#Israel has the right to decide which place is Israel is its capital and that becomes its capital by objective standards. | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
Given that Israel is just about the only country that considers that all of Jerusalem is in Israel, then using 1 and 2 to then imply that the undivided entity that is Jerusalem is the capital of Israel cannot be anything but POV. For Misplaced Pages to be NPOV, it has to avoid a position that implies 1+2. We could split off a separate West Jerusalem article and say that Israel's capital is there in the lead, and discuss some of the issues lower down. But if we treat Jerusalem as one entity, we must not imply that that single entity is uncomplicatedly part of Israel or its uncomplicated capital.--] (]) 09:20, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 19:30, 7 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Looking for Project volunteers to answer some questions == | |||
:Peter, there's a difference between what we want, or think is right, and what is. | |||
:The very definition of capital is "seat of government", and one can add the de-jure aspect of being designated as capital by the country (which is why The Netherlands has, sort of, two capitals). Jerusalem answers both those criteria - by their very definitions. Regardless of some people's opinions or wishes to that effect, "capital" has nothing to do with international recognition, or with embassies. | |||
:To call Jerusalem anything but "capital" would be a disservice to the readers, who just want the facts. Now, the issue of whether this should be so, whether Israel has a right to set its capital there, etc, is a very different matter. What should be cannot change what is. | |||
:There's no real entity by the name of "West Jerusalem". No distinction "on the ground". I remind you that East Jerusalem was "illegally" captured by Jordan (against the UN plan), leading to Israel capturing the other part of the city ("West Jerusalem"). Legally speaking, Jordan, or the Palestinians, have no more right to Jerusalem that Israel does. It is disputed, sure, but currently it is the capital. What will happen in the future - no one knows. Till then... ] (]) 09:49, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
I am writing an article for ], Misplaced Pages's internal newspaper and am looking for 2-4 WP:Israel Palestine Collaboration volunteers, both longer term and newer members. Feel free to directly add your answers on ] and let me know if you any questions/comments. ~ 🦝 ] (he/him • ]) 22:16, 7 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Consensus=== | |||
There are certain people talking about consensus as is it is unchanging and uncomplicated. Misplaced Pages is very clear that consensus can be challenged and can change. "We decided all this a year ago." is not acceptable under ]. Saying "how dare someone new turn up and express their POV after we have discussed this before" is not acceptable under ]. Can people be very clear about this. The consensus even on featured articles can change.--] (]) 09:20, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:The way I see it, currently we don't have consensus for saying: "Jerusalem is the capital of Israel" in the related articles' leads.] (]) 09:40, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::Imad, you have to face the very definition of the word. As you have failed to provide any source stating the need for international recognition on a country's capital, please accept that Jerusalem answers the definition. You have to separate your personal opinion of what should be, from what actually is. Only the latter should be written in the articles. ] (]) 09:51, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
:::Please see my comment above, Jerusalem is a unique case, East Jerusalem is an occupied territory. I'm not sure if I can find a dictionary definition that says: "a capital must not be occupied", but that's common sense. ] (]) 09:58, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
::::"Common sense" - well, that's great, but when going against the facts and the definitions, you need sources. | |||
::::Actually, even the claim of "occupied" is bogus - occupied from who? No country has a legal right to it. Jordan captured it despite to UN plan, and no longer lays any claim to it. The Palestinians aren't a state, and even if they were to accept the UN partition plan in 1947, Jerusalem wouldn't have been under their control. In fact, the "corpus separatum" plan called for the residents of Jerusalem to vote, after 10 years, on their desired alignment. Jerusalem has had a consistent Jewish majority since the 19th century, and throughout the 20th century, and the outcome of such a vote may very well have been the annexation of Jerusalem to Israel. But that's speculation. The point is, Jerusalem is, at most, disputed. Not occupied. ] (]) 10:15, 31 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
== FYI, ]? == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 21:10, 8 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
I stumbled upon these, while looking for something and then spent more time trying to improve my general knowledge of that time period. I thought I'd make them available for your perusal. I couldn't find the source on a Wiki search, as having been used/found, but I don't know how to search Wiki too well. They look pretty RS to me. ,, | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 06:33, 10 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
,,, and, . | |||
I found them enlightening and interesting, but didn't look at all of them completely. I tend to feel that they can be helpful for many articles within our sphere. Regards, ] (]) 15:06, 14 May 2008 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 06:37, 10 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 10:18, 12 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 07:59, 26 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Articles wanted == | |||
I think we've all noticed the (unsurprising) recent proliferation in new articles that quickly get AFD'd or merged. Meanwhile, there are still articles that have not yet been written but would easily pass GNG as stand-alones. I thought for editors who are interested in making new articles in this topic area, it might be useful to gather some redlinks and greenlinks to turn blue. Here are my suggestions (and GScholar searches for convenience): | |||
* ] | |||
* ] (or ]) | |||
* ] (1948-1966 in Israel, 1967-... in occupied territories) | |||
* ] or ] or ] (includes looting of homes, archives, antiquities, etc., compare with ], ]) | |||
* ] | |||
Other suggestions welcome, unless this was the wrong place to post this, in which case, sorry! ] (]) 07:55, 4 February 2024 (UTC) | |||
:] in case anyone wants to work on that. ] (]) 17:59, 11 February 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 11:40, 26 February 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Please help improve the following articles == | |||
Requesting collaboration to improve the articles ], ], and ] , which are all currently being considered for deletion, in order to make sure that these articles align with Misplaced Pages guidelines. I believe that all the major issues brought up in the deletion request could be addressed and fixed if we work to improve these articles collaboratively, especially considering the precedent of ]. Your expertise and contributions are highly valued. ] (]) 14:42, 28 February 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 09:12, 1 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
== ] == | |||
Dear all | |||
I've just created an article for ], any additions are very welcome. | |||
Thanks very much | |||
] (]) 11:01, 11 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Hi all, I'd appreciate some help with it, someone has added what appears to be government propaganda trying to discredit the organisation by pretending the symbol they use celebrates a lynching. ] (]) 00:27, 13 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
== ] == | |||
Thoughts on this newly-created article? ] (]) 13:43, 15 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I have just read it and feel very depressed for human kind. A well written article though. ] (]) 17:03, 15 March 2024 (UTC) | |||
== ] == | |||
Hi everyone, I've started a new article on the topic of ]. It's not comprehensive but hopefully gives an overview of the topic. Any edits or suggestions are of course welcome. ] (]) 17:31, 9 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 21:31, 13 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 19:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 00:21, 22 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
== IRC Channel: on Liberal and not on Freenode == | |||
Hi, a minor nit: | |||
The page mentions that the IRC channel is on ] (that makes no sense. Surely there's no Misplaced Pages activity there). The link to the Webchat sends to a channel on ]. For now, the channel there is dormant and does not seem to be registered. Should I register it? ] (]) 11:47, 23 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
There is a requested move at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 23:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
== depopulated Palestinian villages == | |||
Hello, the entries mentioned in ], ] and ] and other articles also in other languages do not have unified/appropriate properties in wikidata, , others are left as instances of "human settelment", "village" or "former human settlement", and with inconsistent (or non-existing property for) location, country ...etc, and a few have the properties relating to the timeframe of their depopulation. wikidata is still lacking/behind in some "technical" level such as describing the former population. But those still require consistency and inclusion of missing properties. | |||
Adding apropriatly consistent properties to the remaining hundreds of items as this is disregarded/underacknowledged information is vital for any general attempt for reflection/contextualization that is genuine. ] (]) 12:40, 11 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 09:47, 26 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) 05:47, 28 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
== RM Talk:Genocide of Indigenous peoples#RFC: Palestinian genocide accusations == | |||
May be of interest. ] (]) 18:04, 29 May 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] 15:19, 14 June 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. The section is "]". | |||
] (]) 10:29, 24 June 2024 (UTC) | |||
== ] == | |||
] Translation suggestion / request. | |||
I'm not sure if there is a last I'm supposed to add it to? | |||
] (]) 15:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. '''<span style="background:#FFBE98;border:1px solid #FFF8E7;border-radius:18px;padding:4px">] • </span>]]</span>''' 22:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC) | |||
== An RFC of interest == | |||
Please see ]. ] (]) 12:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC) | |||
== ] == | |||
There are two discussion occurring at ] and ] discussing whether the article should be edited to further cover the opinions of ]. Editors are invited to participate. '']''<sup>]</sup> 07:00, 17 July 2024 (UTC) | |||
== An RFC of interest == | |||
Please see ]. ] (]) 13:50, 19 July 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Merge proposal ] ] == | |||
About 5 years ago, I expanded ] with its pre-Jewish history -there was a village called Mulabbis there. A few months ago an editor -without consulting anyone- removed all the pre-Jewish history from ] and put it in an article called ]. This is a relatively small article. I have now started a formal discussion about a merge, see ], cheers, ] (]) 21:32, 8 August 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. '']''<sup>]</sup> 04:04, 9 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
* The RM has been closed. ''']] (])''' 00:28, 11 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
== ] RfC == | |||
There's a discussion at ] about whether specific prose attributed to Benny Morris should be added to ]. Editors are invited to participate. '']''<sup>]</sup> 07:18, 14 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Writing about the 69 destroyed cultural heritage in Gaza == | |||
At ''']''', we have a table based on a ] list published 5 days ago, showing the 69 main cultural sites destroyed in Gaza. Many do not yet have articles about them. | |||
Please help in creating articles about these destroyed sites. | |||
] (]) 09:28, 22 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Discussion on the reliability of the Jewish Chronicle == | |||
There is a discussion at the Reliable sources/Noticeboard about the reliability of the Jewish Chronicle, interested editors can see the discussion here ]. -- <small>LCU</small> ''']''' <small>''«]» °]°''</small> 19:28, 23 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. --] ] 22:06, 29 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Referring to Member statements section == | |||
The red field in the ] says: "This project page can be edited by all members. To become a member, please write a short message in the Member statements section" but the Member statements were removed to Archive. Maybe someone more experienced can remove that sentence and then remove this discussion topic ~ ] (]) 10:27, 30 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Hi. Where are the member statements in the archive? Can you post the link here? Thanks, ] | ] 15:28, 30 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
::https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration/Archive_3#h-Member_statements-2008-01-16T17:09:00.000Z ~ ] (]) 15:35, 30 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Thanks. How about if the member statements are moved to a subpage, so that participants can add new statements there? ] | ] 15:55, 30 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Reference to Nakba missing in description of Israeli settlement history == | |||
''Note: Decisions on this topic affect all pages about Israeli settlements'' | |||
On this page https://en.wikipedia.org/Kfar_Chabad about an Israeli settlement established in 1949, I noticed that there is no mention of destroying a Palestinian settlement or expelling people. The only reference is that it was a "depopulated" Palestinian village. By not mentioning the circumstances surrounding the establishment of the settlement but mentioning the "Terrorist attack on the vocational school" the story becomes one-sided. | |||
My suggestion is to add at least one sentence about the Nakba, referring to the Nakba page. This probably applies to most pages about Israeli municipalities/settlements. To avoid having to create a specific description for each municipality/settlement, my suggestion is to use this generic sentence if possible: "During the ], Zionist militias forcibly expelled about half of the inhabitants of Palestine from their homes." ] (]) 11:37, 30 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
] There is a requested move discussion at ] that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ] (]) ] 01:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
== RfC: should ] -article be linked from the ]-article? == | |||
See:], cheers, ] (]) 22:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Shalom Nagar == | |||
I'd welcome more eyes, and corrections, on this ] of Adolf Eichmann's executioner. The "later years" section, especially parts cited from ], covers areas of interest to this wikiproject that I want to make sure I've covered fairly. ] (]) 16:05, 29 November 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Requested move at ] == | |||
Thanks for any comments, ] | ] 18:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 18:20, 12 December 2024
Note: Some old subpages of this wikiproject (older than 2010) are now archived at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Old subpages |
This project page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||
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Archives |
Old article discussions
Combined talk discussions
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"Al-Aqsa is in danger"
Hello, I'm sure you're all very busy at the moment, but am looking for third-party input on something. An editor made a very large addition to the small page Al-Aqsa is in danger which appears to me to seriously skew the article's tone and compromise its NPOV. It seemed relatively good and neutral (if short) before, but certainly the additions appear very much to push it in one direction. I've laid out what I think are the problems on the talk page and on the relevant user's talk page, but have gotten no response. To avoid an edit war, would appreciate if someone (or multiple someones) would take a look. Thanks! AntiDionysius (talk) 10:10, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
Nakba denial
I have created a page on the subject of Nakba denial - a topic of some weight in literature on the historiography of the Arab-Israeli conflict. I have barely scratched the surface of the available source, having prioritized the most readily accessible ones. There may very well be some gaping gaps, not least in that I don't have access to any of the best Ilan Pappé material, so haven't been able to directly quote him. More eyes welcome. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:25, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:March 2010 Israel–Gaza clashes#Requested move 13 October 2023
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:March 2010 Israel–Gaza clashes#Requested move 13 October 2023 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — MaterialWorks 15:09, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Israeli permit regime in the West Bank
An editor has requested that Israeli permit regime in the West Bank be moved to another page, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion. GnocchiFan (talk) 20:28, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
Draft:Casualties of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war
I'm spinning this off the main article because it's taking up quite a lot of space and almost certainly will continue to expand with an Israeli ground incursion into Gaza. You're welcome to help me get this ready for the mainspace. --Jprg1966 01:51, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
Talk:List of Islamist terrorist attacks#Should Operation Al-Aqsa Flood by Hamas included in the list of Islamist Terrorist attacks?
An editor has started an RfC asking "Should Operation Al-Aqsa Flood by Hamas be included in the List of Islamist terrorist attacks?" at Talk:List of Islamist terrorist attacks#Should Operation Al-Aqsa Flood by Hamas included in the list of Islamist Terrorist attacks?. Interested editors are invited to participate. TarnishedPath 23:10, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
Limiting or merging single-event stubs (in war navbox)
I've been seeing a lot of minor war events getting their own articles, which are 90% navboxes and background and 'see also' links to war lists. They often draw on twitter posts or less reputable sources. They are also rapidly added to the navboxes (which are on a lot of high-traffic pages), making those much less useful and perhaps confusing readers who click through a few serious articles and then end up on a dodgy, thinly sourced stub.
I made routine merges of the Daraghmeh + KY articles, which were reverted; the former now somewhat inefficiently sitting through AfD, the latter a draft. What's a smooth way to set a style guideline for what gets a navbox-level article / what should be developed in draft-space?
Examples: These 3 all started out quoting unreliable pro-military sources; nothing notable + no details
- Death of Omar Daraghmeh - pending deletion, edit war over merge
- 2023 Erez airstrike - hardly mentioned
- 2023 Khan Yunis raid (draft) - very minor, edit war over merge
These simply don't need their own article:
- 2023 Al-Asad air base attack - not notable; maybe eventually part of notable pattern. not obviously part of this conflict
- 2023 storming of Tammun and Qabatiya - odd title, minor
- October 2023 Jenin incursion - minor
These might be kept if improved :
- October 2023 Tulkarm incursion - only one of these major enough to potentially have an article
- List of serving heads of state and government that have visited Israel during the 2023 Israel-Hamas War - terrible naming + list convention started w/ the Russian invasion of Ukraine
– SJ + 03:44, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
- Glad someone is trying to tackle this thorny issue. A few minutes after (some event) happens, odds are good that someone will try to make an article out of it. Criteria would be good, but do you mean only for AI/IP articles? Selfstudier (talk) 17:10, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
- Wars are one of the few events that generate such a proliferation of stubs and nav-links, and attract editors who fight over them rather than merging into a few informative articles. This war and the Russian invasion of Ukraine are the recent examples I've seen. We ideally could point people on navbox talk pages to standard guidelines for how to keep them useful. – SJ + 06:15, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
Discussion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-10/21
You are invited to join the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/United Nations General Assembly Resolution ES-10/21. Your contributions would be appreciated. Historyday01 (talk) 17:27, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
From the river to the sea
Experienced editors are invited to look at the recent work at this article. Onceinawhile (talk) 10:32, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
Timeline of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war: Methodology & Translations
Having concluded my sabbatical, and having found this project, I'm ready to dive in again where angels fear to dive. Currently I'm taking a more narrow focus, working backwards as events become clearer in retrospect (the historiography will come later); too, reliable sources have begun to assemble their own timelines. If anyone wants to undertake massive improvements large or small, feel free!
For reference, these have been my sources to date: Al Jazeera, BBC, The Forward, The Guardian, Times of Israel, Haaretz, Middle East Eye, NYT, and to an extent the think tank Institute for the Study of War.
Secondly, the first translation was into Chinese. There are now six. Although I'm a monoglot, I can tell that the French was, at least initially, a straight up translation whereas the German is definitely its own creature. The most recent, surprisingly, is Arabic. Just as surprisingly, Hebrew has yet to appear! Is anyone more knowledgeable keeping an eye on these narratives?
kencf0618 (talk) 13:16, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
- Welcome to the project, Ken. Thank you in particular for your focus on RS. I agree that all of those you list meet WP:RS. ◅ Sebastian Helm 🗨 08:46, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
- It helps that whatever the editorial stance, they're dealing with brute fact. kencf0618 (talk) 13:48, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
Declarations of War
I've been casting about for the formal Israeli declaration of war by invocation of Article 40A –the actual Knesset/Security Cabinet paperwork– as well as a transcription of Mohammed Deif's announcement in full. All I'm finding are bits and pieces. kencf0618 (talk) 13:55, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
Draft:Calls for a ceasefire during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war
Does this have merit as an article? Happy for anyone to contribute :) Neegzistuoja (talk) 14:56, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- It does. Eventually a proposal will get traction... kencf0618 (talk) 01:49, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- On second thought, now that as of this writing an inaugural ceasefire is holding, ceasefires are the salient matter. Calls for ceasefires are a matter for our coverage of protests and such, methinks. kencf0618 (talk) 14:34, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
Post-Zionism
The page Post-Zionism is a disaster of a piece of content at present. It's almost wholly unsourced, could potentially be a personal essay, and the only sources are some op-eds, not scholarship. It's so dysfunctional that it borders on a WP:TNT case, but I thought it might be worth flagging it as a doer-upper first. Iskandar323 (talk) 22:18, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- This isn't within our ambit, or at least not yet. Let's wait for the historiography to happen before we have our own Historikerstreit. And not to put too fine a point on it, the last item on the Post-Zionism's talk page is dated 27 June 2013, so no controversy there. (New Historians 11 March 2022 likewise). kencf0618 (talk) 14:00, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Proposed mergers at Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis
Editors have proposed merging the articles Kidnapping of Hersh Goldberg-Polin and Kidnapping of Noa Argamani into 2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis, which are of interest to this WikiProject.
You are invited join the discussions at Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis § Proposed merger and Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis § Proposed merger 2.—Alalch E. 17:45, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Article idea: Israeli settler organizations
It may be worth creating Israeli settler organizations, covering orgs that support settlements, like Regavim, Ateret Cohanim, Nahalat Shimon International, Hashomer Yosh, and Israel Land Fund, and nonprofits that financially support those orgs like Friends of Ir David and the Central Fund of Israel . We have articles on some of the individual orgs but no overarching article. DFlhb (talk) 08:41, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
Renewed calls for a two-state solution
I've been trying to find a suitable place in Misplaced Pages for mentions of items such as Thomas Friedman's 14 Nov 2023 opinion piece in the NYT or the 14 Dec 2023 letter from 27 Jewish leaders to President Biden, both calling for a two-state solution. Is there an existing article which would be an appropriate home for such items? If not, should we create a new article? Thanks Misha Wolf (talk) 14:56, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
- Please could someone respond to my question. Another relevant piece has come to my attention, called "Starting From the Ground Up: U.S. Policy Options for Post-Hamas Gaza", by Michael Koplow and Shira Efron. Misha Wolf (talk) 15:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- Two state solution fits the bill. kencf0618 (talk) 18:26, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- I was hesitant about adding such items to that article as there doesn't seem to be a suitable place in the article's structure. But if that's the best article to use, then I/we will need to tweak the structure. Any suggestions? Should I/we create a new top-level section after section "Public opinion in Israel and Palestine"? And what would be a good name for such a section? Thanks Misha Wolf (talk) 19:19, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- I've created a section titled "Renewed focus on two-state solution". Your input and comments are very much welcome. Misha Wolf (talk) 23:32, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- I was hesitant about adding such items to that article as there doesn't seem to be a suitable place in the article's structure. But if that's the best article to use, then I/we will need to tweak the structure. Any suggestions? Should I/we create a new top-level section after section "Public opinion in Israel and Palestine"? And what would be a good name for such a section? Thanks Misha Wolf (talk) 19:19, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- Two state solution fits the bill. kencf0618 (talk) 18:26, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- Perhaps this article. RolandR (talk) 00:43, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
- Or would this one be a better fit? Misha Wolf (talk) 00:48, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Re'im music festival massacre#Requested move 6 January 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Re'im music festival massacre#Requested move 6 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:03, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Siege of Gaza City#Requested move 6 January 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Siege of Gaza City#Requested move 6 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:30, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
Looking for Project volunteers to answer some questions
I am writing an article for WP:SIGNPOST, Misplaced Pages's internal newspaper and am looking for 2-4 WP:Israel Palestine Collaboration volunteers, both longer term and newer members. Feel free to directly add your answers on Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/Next issue/WikiProject report and let me know if you any questions/comments. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 22:16, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Sexual and gender-based violence in the 7 October attack on Israel#Requested move 8 January 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Sexual and gender-based violence in the 7 October attack on Israel#Requested move 8 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:10, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Holit massacre#Requested move 10 January 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Holit massacre#Requested move 10 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:33, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Nir Yitzhak massacre#Requested move 10 January 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Nir Yitzhak massacre#Requested move 10 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 06:37, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Houthi involvement in the Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 12 January 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Houthi involvement in the Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 12 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 10:18, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip#Requested move 26 January 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2023 Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip#Requested move 26 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 07:59, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
Articles wanted
I think we've all noticed the (unsurprising) recent proliferation in new articles that quickly get AFD'd or merged. Meanwhile, there are still articles that have not yet been written but would easily pass GNG as stand-alones. I thought for editors who are interested in making new articles in this topic area, it might be useful to gather some redlinks and greenlinks to turn blue. Here are my suggestions (and GScholar searches for convenience):
- Anti-Zionism and antisemitism
- Zionist transfer (or 'Transfer' in Zionism)
- Palestinians under military government (1948-1966 in Israel, 1967-... in occupied territories)
- Looting in Palestine or Looting of Palestine or Looting during the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (includes looting of homes, archives, antiquities, etc., compare with Looting of Poland in World War II, Looting by Russian forces during the Russian invasion of Ukraine)
- Biological warfare in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
Other suggestions welcome, unless this was the wrong place to post this, in which case, sorry! Levivich (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
- Draft:Palestinian cultural genocide in case anyone wants to work on that. Levivich (talk) 17:59, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Jewish exodus from the Muslim world#Requested move 26 February 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Jewish exodus from the Muslim world#Requested move 26 February 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 11:40, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
Please help improve the following articles
Requesting collaboration to improve the articles List of terrorist incidents in the Palestinian territories, List of terrorist incidents in Israel in 2022, and List of terrorist incidents in Israel in 2024 , which are all currently being considered for deletion, in order to make sure that these articles align with Misplaced Pages guidelines. I believe that all the major issues brought up in the deletion request could be addressed and fixed if we work to improve these articles collaboratively, especially considering the precedent of similar articles existing for various other countries on the English Misplaced Pages. Your expertise and contributions are highly valued. WikiJunkie (talk) 14:42, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Al-Rashid humanitarian aid incident#Requested move 29 February 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Al-Rashid humanitarian aid incident#Requested move 29 February 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:12, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
Artists4Ceasefire
Dear all
I've just created an article for Artists4Ceasefire, any additions are very welcome.
Thanks very much
John Cummings (talk) 11:01, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi all, I'd appreciate some help with it, someone has added what appears to be government propaganda trying to discredit the organisation by pretending the symbol they use celebrates a lynching. John Cummings (talk) 00:27, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
Animal stereotypes of Palestinians in Israeli discourse
Thoughts on this newly-created article? AusLondonder (talk) 13:43, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- I have just read it and feel very depressed for human kind. A well written article though. Onceinawhile (talk) 17:03, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
Destruction of cultural heritage during the Israel–Hamas war
Hi everyone, I've started a new article on the topic of destruction of cultural heritage during the Israel–Hamas war. It's not comprehensive but hopefully gives an overview of the topic. Any edits or suggestions are of course welcome. Richard Nevell (talk) 17:31, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:2024 Iranian Strikes in Israel#Requested move 13 April 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Iranian Strikes in Israel#Requested move 13 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 21:31, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:2024 Iranian strikes in Israel#Requested move 14 April 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Iranian strikes in Israel#Requested move 14 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 19:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:2023 Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip#Requested move 11 April 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2023 Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip#Requested move 11 April 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 00:21, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
IRC Channel: on Liberal and not on Freenode
Hi, a minor nit:
The page mentions that the IRC channel is on Freenode (that makes no sense. Surely there's no Misplaced Pages activity there). The link to the Webchat sends to a channel on Libera Chat. For now, the channel there is dormant and does not seem to be registered. Should I register it? Tzafrir (talk) 11:47, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Weaponization of antisemitism
There is a requested move at Weaponization of antisemitism that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Mistamystery (talk) 23:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
depopulated Palestinian villages
Hello, the entries mentioned in List of towns and villages depopulated during the 1947–1949 Palestine war, List of villages depopulated during the Arab–Israeli conflict and Category:Villages depopulated during the Arab–Israeli conflict and other articles also in other languages do not have unified/appropriate properties in wikidata, about 20 out of the 600~ depopulated villages are clearly marked as such in wikidata, others are left as instances of "human settelment", "village" or "former human settlement", and with inconsistent (or non-existing property for) location, country ...etc, and a few have the properties relating to the timeframe of their depopulation. wikidata is still lacking/behind in some "technical" level such as describing the former population. But those still require consistency and inclusion of missing properties.
Adding apropriatly consistent properties to the remaining hundreds of items as this is disregarded/underacknowledged information is vital for any general attempt for reflection/contextualization that is genuine. Uwe a (talk) 12:40, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza#Requested move 3 May 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza#Requested move 3 May 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 09:47, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Tel al-Sultan airstikes#Requested move 27 May 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Tel al-Sultan airstikes#Requested move 27 May 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. RodRabelo7 (talk) 05:47, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
RM Talk:Genocide of Indigenous peoples#RFC: Palestinian genocide accusations
May be of interest. Selfstudier (talk) 18:04, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Sexual and gender-based violence in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel#Requested move 4 June 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Sexual and gender-based violence in the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel#Requested move 4 June 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 15:19, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza#Requested move 3 May 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Allegations of genocide in the 2023 Israeli attack on Gaza#Requested move 3 May 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. The section is "Three options".
FortunateSons (talk) 10:29, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
he:תצפיתנית
he:תצפיתנית Translation suggestion / request.
I'm not sure if there is a last I'm supposed to add it to?
MWQs (talk) 15:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:University of Texas at Austin stabbing#Requested move 14 July 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:University of Texas at Austin stabbing#Requested move 14 July 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 98𝚃𝙸𝙶𝙴𝚁𝙸𝚄𝚂 • 22:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
An RFC of interest
Please see Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#RFC - Gaza Health Ministry qualifier. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:57, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight
There are two discussion occurring at Talk:1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight#Haifa and Talk:1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight#Unconditional surrender at Haifa: gross misrepresentation discussing whether the article should be edited to further cover the opinions of Benny Morris. Editors are invited to participate. TarnishedPath 07:00, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
An RFC of interest
Please see Talk:List of genocides#RFC - Inclusion of Gaza genocide. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:50, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
Merge proposal Petah Tikva Mulabbes
About 5 years ago, I expanded Petah Tikva with its pre-Jewish history -there was a village called Mulabbis there. A few months ago an editor -without consulting anyone- removed all the pre-Jewish history from Petah Tikva and put it in an article called Mulabbes. This is a relatively small article. I have now started a formal discussion about a merge, see Talk:Petah_Tikva#Merge_proposal, cheers, Huldra (talk) 21:32, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Gaza genocide/Archive 5#Requested move 7 September 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Gaza genocide/Archive 5#Requested move 7 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. TarnishedPath 04:04, 9 September 2024 (UTC)
- The RM has been closed. starship.paint (RUN) 00:28, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
Talk:1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight RfC
There's a discussion at Talk:1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight#RfC_–_In_the_article_section_about_"Haifa",_should_the_following_paragraph_be_added? about whether specific prose attributed to Benny Morris should be added to 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight. Editors are invited to participate. TarnishedPath 07:18, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
Writing about the 69 destroyed cultural heritage in Gaza
At Destruction of cultural heritage during the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip#List of sites, we have a table based on a UNESCO list published 5 days ago, showing the 69 main cultural sites destroyed in Gaza. Many do not yet have articles about them.
Please help in creating articles about these destroyed sites.
Onceinawhile (talk) 09:28, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
Discussion on the reliability of the Jewish Chronicle
There is a discussion at the Reliable sources/Noticeboard about the reliability of the Jewish Chronicle, interested editors can see the discussion here WP:RSN#RFC Jewish Chronicle. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 19:28, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 13 August 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 13 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. --MikutoH 22:06, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
Referring to Member statements section
The red field in the WikiProject's header says: "This project page can be edited by all members. To become a member, please write a short message in the Member statements section" but the Member statements were removed to Archive. Maybe someone more experienced can remove that sentence and then remove this discussion topic ~ VanderlekD (talk) 10:27, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hi. Where are the member statements in the archive? Can you post the link here? Thanks, HG1 | Talk 15:28, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration/Archive_3#h-Member_statements-2008-01-16T17:09:00.000Z ~ VanderlekD (talk) 15:35, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. How about if the member statements are moved to a subpage, so that participants can add new statements there? HG1 | Talk 15:55, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration/Archive_3#h-Member_statements-2008-01-16T17:09:00.000Z ~ VanderlekD (talk) 15:35, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
Reference to Nakba missing in description of Israeli settlement history
Note: Decisions on this topic affect all pages about Israeli settlements
On this page https://en.wikipedia.org/Kfar_Chabad about an Israeli settlement established in 1949, I noticed that there is no mention of destroying a Palestinian settlement or expelling people. The only reference is that it was a "depopulated" Palestinian village. By not mentioning the circumstances surrounding the establishment of the settlement but mentioning the "Terrorist attack on the vocational school" the story becomes one-sided.
My suggestion is to add at least one sentence about the Nakba, referring to the Nakba page. This probably applies to most pages about Israeli municipalities/settlements. To avoid having to create a specific description for each municipality/settlement, my suggestion is to use this generic sentence if possible: "During the Nakba, Zionist militias forcibly expelled about half of the inhabitants of Palestine from their homes." VanderlekD (talk) 11:37, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Middle Eastern crisis (2023–present)#Requested move 6 November 2024
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Middle Eastern crisis (2023–present)#Requested move 6 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. estar8806 (talk) ★ 01:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
RfC: should Gaza genocide -article be linked from the Israel-article?
See:Talk:Israel#RfC, cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
Shalom Nagar
I'd welcome more eyes, and corrections, on this newly created biography of Adolf Eichmann's executioner. The "later years" section, especially parts cited from The Forward, covers areas of interest to this wikiproject that I want to make sure I've covered fairly. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 16:05, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Requested move at Talk:Antisemitism during the Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 12 December 2024
Thanks for any comments, ByVarying | talk 18:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
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