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'''''To promote misconception is not to serve history. History is concerned with the objective interpretation of events and the actions of people, not the propagation of myth or political agenda.'''''
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== Helpful Pages ==


Hello, {{BASEPAGENAME}}, and ] to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for ]{{#if:|, especially what you did for ]|}}. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a ]! Please ] your messages on ]s using four ]s (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out ], ask me on {{#if:|]|my talk page}}, or ask your question on this page and then place <code><nowiki>{{helpme}}</nowiki></code> before the question. Again, welcome! <!-- Template:Welcome -->


: I'm answering ] here:
: Thank you for your contributions to ], that article truly needs additional references. And, yes, some of the references in there do need to be fixed. The proper way of using references on Misplaced Pages is described ]. It might look overwhelming, but once you get used to those templates they actually make editing easier and the articles more reliable. Drop a note on ] if you need any help.
: I don't claim to know a lot about the Roman civilisation (though I did study their architecture for a few years), but I do agree the traditional description of the Romans is simplistic (as is the traditional description of Ancient Greek civilisation).
: Regarding your user name, you are free to choose virtually any name you want. The recommendation to remain anonymous is mostly a concern for your own privacy. If you want to, you can describe yourself on ], but that's up to you.
: Again, let me know if I can help you in any way
: / ]<small> (] | ])</small> 15:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)




:: Thanks very much Raven. Sorry for the inconsitencies in my referencing. I was not intending to go into the "detail" that I did as I knew I would need my books to refer to - most of the ones I need are in storage. Its a shame about the simplicity seeing that it is based on scholarship that is now over a hundred years old. So much has been learned since then yet much of the literature available to the public continues to paint the old picture. The manner in which the other cultures are generally neglected adds to the dissappointment. On the whole though, that Roman empire article is quite goood. In fact I have been rather impressed with the degree of detail, and scope of coverage in Misplaced Pages in general. It is proving quite a success.
:: Thanks also for the offers of assistance and the tip on the tilda's. I read about them but didn't catch on until your reply.
:: I hope to be able to contribute more soon.
::Best wishes,
::] (]) 15:36, 27 May 2008 (UTC)


== Julia's strength == == Thank you ==


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Hello! Could you please cite the exact reference you gave for Julia having only 6,000 men? Because I am really doubtful of it. Greek sources universally give 10,800 men, which is a logical number, while 6,000 is way too low. A binary division means a division with two infantry regiments ''plus support services'' (artillery regiment etc), which is way more than 6,000 men, at least at the beginning of a campaign. If you check out the numbers on the ], you'll see what I mean. If one Alpini Regiment had 5,206 men (taken from ), even if we suppose it was understrength, there is no way that a whole division could have numbered 6,000. Thank you. ] ] 09:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
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Oh, I looked up an old Osprey book on the Italian Army, and it clearly says: establishment strength for an Alpine division: 13,000 men. ] ] 10:01, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


== Anglo-American bias against the Italian war effort ==


Hi Romaioi,
:Hello Konstantinos! Thanks for the message. This is a much better medium - more room. I have been scouring my library for an exact reference that states the Julia's numbers (this one actually states 7000) all afternoon and am still looking. I will have to keep looking (thats why I said "reference tba" in the summary of my original modification). The other references that I have been included so far are there to point illustrate that Italian divisions were binary. I stated ca. 6000 because, as a result of the binary policy, Italian divsions had between 5000 - 7000 troops - I can cite half a dozen references that state this (Bierman and Smith's Alemain book (2002) is one example off the top of my head). But as I later found that the "binary" concept was briefly mentioned earlier, they seem to have become moot. It was Mussolini's "trick" to make it appear that the Italian army was much larger than it was.


I'm having a hard time with these wiki people who keep perpetuating the myth that the Italians were ineffective fighters. Many of them appear to be Brits or Australians who have read nonsense about the Italians and are perpetuating their myths on Misplaced Pages. Do you have any advice for me on how to deal with such obvious bias and misinformation? ] (]) 22:15, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
:I saw the Cuneese numbers in my search and was suprised and remain somewhat skeptical. I would love to know where those numbers came from - I tried to establish it but had no luck. My skeptisim comes from the tendency of authors of English texts (particularly the older ones) not have done their homework regarding the Itatalian contributions and other minor powers, literally. Further, they tend to be almost always grossly and unfairly dismissive of Italian involvement. Another characteristic of the English texts is to ignore the binary nature of the Italian divisions, with the result being that they overstate the numbers. This has been addressed thoroughly in the Walker reference that I included (I may have to move that the section in question now). (Refreshingly, there seams to be a change in attitude in some of the more recent texts as there are now some authors who are doing their homework on the Italians and others. (The same goes for all the other minor powers, such as Greece, Romania, Slovakia, etc - they all get ignored too often). So please forgive my cinicism regarding the numbers from the Osprey book - I do not rate it for statistics regarding the Italians, with justification. ] (]) 15:26, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


:Hi ],
:Sorry for my verboseness. This is a subject that I can go on about. I started out many years ago trying to learn about the involvement of the other powers and it took a most of that time just to piece together the Italian story. Finally, a few books like Walker's have come out that have been able to sum it up nicely.
:Some people will never change their views. It’s a simple as that – it won’t matter what evidence is presented. All you can do is present the facts “objectively and academically" and make sure they are backed by multiple sources (I was always at pains to ensure at least one citation for almost every sentence contributed). That’s pretty much it - and be sure to demonstrate good faith and follow the correct Wiki policies.


:How that is responded to will elucidate the characters you are dealing with. (Eventually, if you are doing the right thing, good faith contributors may provide support.)
:But I do note from the Commando Supremo reference the mention of 3 regiments, so I guess the Alpini could be different (and my citation indicating 7000 may be incorrect - but it may be right as per my example in th P.S. below). I would still be surprised by this seeing that other special units tended to have less men, not more. The Folgore, for example, had 5000 men at Alamein. The armoured divsions had less than 8,000 men each and were acknowledged to be the equivalenmt to an English reginement.


:There is an oddity in the tendency of some ‘contributors’ to plainly delete cited content due to it not agreeing with their ‘expert opinion’ – if they provide an explanation at all. Or, a classic, change the sentence/content (without reading the cited material) so that the correlation is lost or manipulated. And then there is also a trend to consensus agreement on loosely cited content while heavily cited content is heavily opposed. All ‘bad faith’ behaviour – which I believe would be a breach of some wiki policy or another – but proving such things will often take up more energy than its worth. But those following policies and procedures correctly may eventually address it - and the majority of contributors are very well intentioned.
:Getting back to our problem. Can you please do me a favour and cite one of your Greek texts on the numbers in the Julia division? I would be happy with that (and happy to have it changed back to 11,000 and my citations pulled). When I eventually find my reference that says otherwise I will add that number beside your referenced number and then look into it further.


:There are also cases where a group of like minded individuals get together and agree that a professionally published (and peer reviewed) researcher does not mean what author wrote but the opposite instead (or that the author is not credible for ‘such and such reason’ and ‘my expert "original" research based opinion'...). There seams to be a propensity to want to contribute to articles based on nationalist tendencies in some cases. The Byzantine articles are an example – apparently they were never Roman, doesn't matter what they called themselves, what their neighbours labelled them, or what scholars constantly inform us of. Just about everything Roman gets a 'Greek' label, even in the classical Roman period. But, no matter how out of kilter with scholarship or even true consensus thought, a small active group can always push their view if they stick with it and ] – the rest simply have better things to do.
:By the way, could you please provide me with a link to a list of established userboxes? I like what you and others have put on your pages and would like to do similar, but so far have not had luck finding the link. Sorry, I am new.


:The views around axis-Italian WWII efforts are odd one given that the weight of WWII propaganda (allied and German alike) is still very heavy in the perceptions of some. However, there is a growing trend to reassess these more objectively (in academia at least). After all – the Italian disasters (disasters they were – all due to poor planning and supplies, especially Greece) were no worse than those of other nations. And it’s not just the Italians that suffer from the propaganda, '''the efforts of (the brilliant) O’Connor and even Auchelink have also been diminished as a result'''. It will simply take time for more objective assessments to prevail – and take further time for it to filter to the mainstream readers that form the majority of contributors on Misplaced Pages (most of whom probably have never had a front-line war experience).
:Sincerely


:That being said, '''the majority of scholarship, old and new, has very rarely regarded the Italian soldier as cowardly.''' The distinction has been made in literature between the actions of the soldiers and the pitiful strategic, logistical and tactical situations they were thrown into at the war’s onset. (Perhaps you can approach it from this perspective?) If mainstream people are taking from literature that the Italians were cowards, then they are most likely misinterpreting what the bulk of the literature is saying. Multiple authors have pointed out that the Italian troops faced greater everyday hardship on the ground compared to both their foes and allies (in North Africa and Greece). Even the Australian War correspondent, Chestor Wilmott, was at pains to, point out the fight put up during O’Connor’s campaign was fierce. Yet it is simplest dismiss Italian contributions as irrelevant as it fits more easily into a simpler narrative – means less perceived effort in studying the nuances (nuances that, for me, are enjoyable to learn) – such as the difficulty of standing and fighting in the dessert without water (as well as effective supplies and armament). It is, after all, a convoluted topic, and much more did happen in the war.
:] (]) 14:41, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


:Perhaps the perception of some mainstream readers around the Italians exacerbated by the view that the fortunes were turned only with German intervention. German intervention absolutely made a difference, but it occurred as the Italian command was getting its act together. The divisions supporting Rommel were mostly much better equipped and the Italian navy was never an issue. It stuck to (and met) its strategic objectives and demonstrated tenacity, despite its clear technological disadvantages and set backs. Moreover, the fact that Rommel’s fortunes ebbed and flowed in parallel with those of the Italian navy in getting supplies through is almost ignored – a mini example of what really won the war in the end: better strategic and logistical planning, supported by industrial capacity. Rommel’s two divisions would have gotten nowhere without the logistics that backed them.
::P.S. I have just done a serach and have found plenty of websites that mention 10800 for the Julia. But on the very same pages they are getting the total troop involvement on both sides wrong. Also, on a nother page, for the Centauro division there is the indication that it is coposed of 3 regiments (1 armoured, 1 artillery, 1 Bersaglieri and several mortorcycle battalions - standard for an Italian armoured divsion), the the divsions was only composed of "4,037 men & 24 guns + 163 light tanks (90 serviceable)" . 3 regiments, yet less than 5000 men!!!! This is covered in the Walker book. Consistency is lacking. Like I said if you can provide a sound citation for the 10800, I would be satisfied... and I will continue searching for my citation.] (]) 15:26, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


:I would like to have contributed more, but life gets in the way. I honestly don’t know where people are finding the time.
:::Hello again! I agree with you on numerous issues you raised: the persistent underestimation of the Italians, the lack of attention paid to minor powers, etc. However, as I said, 6,000 is simply not believable for a division. It may be a division ''after'' it has suffered losses in campaign (e.g. the Alamein case), but not a peacetime establishment, even for a binary division. Indeed, after the Battle of Pindus, "Julia" may have numbered ca. 6-7 thousand men, as it suffered some 5,000 casualties. Especially considering that "Julia" was supposed to act as an independent operational command, 6,000 men would be suicidal. (Of course, attacking with 6 understrength divisions in impossible terrain in late October is also suicidal, but...) As for the Cuneese numbers, since they come from a set up by the division's veterans, I think they ought to be reliable (indeed they are: ''Dati ufficiali provenienti da un dell'Archivio Storico Militare di Roma, firmato dal Colonnello Capo di Stato Maggiore, Lorenzo Navone.''). Doubtless, the numbers represent establishment strength, possibly reinforced for the Russian campaign, but still a far cry from 6,000. Now, I didn't get the 11,000 number from the web (notoriously unreliable, except if it can be corroborated in multiple sites), but from a book, which, alas, is now about 300 km away, stored in a box in a basement... So give me some time on this... PS, if you can provide some more insight on how the Italians viewed the whole conflict, I'd be grateful (the Greco-Italian War article is what got me writing here, so it's kind of a pet project). Cheers, ] ]


:With the people you are discussing ‘cowardice’ with you could try elucidating that the British, French, Russians and Chinese all suffered similar setback as the Italians did at the beginning of the war. The circumstances, supplies, strategic position, relative hardship etc are all similar in one respect or another. Then ask: why are the Italians the only lot in this group that are cowards? The correct answer would be: None of them were.
:::PS: The 7,000 division could refer to the type AS 42 infantry division, but this did not apply to 1940.


:Good luck with it all. ] (]) 10:35, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello! I am glad we are talking in this manner.
You’ve got me thinking that the make up of the Alpini may not have been affected by the binary policy, for various reasons. I can relate to having the appropriate book locked away in storage. I fear the same thing for my reference. I will switch it back to 10,800 and mention that a citation is needed.


But in light of the fact that the policy was for a binary make up, that, for example, a full strength Folgore division had a compliment of 5000 (and numbers like this are quoted for various Italian divisions in various texts), why its 6000 for an Italian division not a believable? Further, Mussolini, boasted that he had 73(?) divisions, but the reality was that at the start of the war they had only enough men for 20 odd divisions (the number quoted was 200,000 men in Bauer’s book) and they were not able to fully equip them. All this has been confused by English exaggerations of Italian numbers. I can relate to you having difficulty picturing it – it took me a long time also!
Thanks Romaioi. Yes you are right that people rarely change their minds and have such rigid views. But at least in academia, historians are beginning to revise and reappraise the Italian involvement in the war. The problem with Misplaced Pages is that it is actually prolonging the myths and misinformation and is heavily partisan and bias in approach, so it has become a conservative rather than a progressive force. Also, unfortunately, many people get their information from Wiki these days, because they do not have the time or inclination to research more thoroughly.
It's a long slow process but I am confident that things are actually changing even at Misplaced Pages. The use of older authors is declining hopefully, those arrogant arm-chair historians, for a younger set who are less inclined to receive their information second or third hand.] (]) 11:20, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


One other thing I find strange Ramaioi about some Wiki editors, is their lack of common sense when quoting and paraphrasing material. A good example is the Italian attack into France in June 1940. The attack started on the 21st June and by the 24th is was over. Now that left only 3 days of actual fighting. In other words, by the time the Italians got their guns into position, started shelling the French fortifications, is was pretty much over. And yet the Italians are berated for having advanced only 10 kms in some places, and 50 in others. And then the inevitable comparison with the spectacular German blitzkrieg in the north of France. When I try to point out the obvious that the Germans had 3 weeks of fighting on very different terrain, with much more space for mobility, etc. certain Wiki authors reply: Well, what are your sources?? In other words, they will only believe something if it can be quoted and cannot actually synthesize the information before them. In other words, they are like people in the Middle Ages who believed the world was flat because "the sources" told them so, rather than use a bit of common sense and the old grey matter. So many of the Wiki military articles are a ramshackle collection of quotes and paraphrases without actual analysis. A PhD student submitting a thesis will be failed by his professor if he produced a thesis without his own careful analysis of the material, followed by synthesis. It isn't enough to just throw in quote after quote and think you've done a good job.] (]) 11:52, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
P.S. I could not find that number on the Cuneese website. I’ll look further. I am starting to doubt it less and less.


:Wow, those were quick responses.
On the Italian perspective on the conflict (I assume you mean Greco-Italian campaign). Well, generally speaking, Italians were against the war in general – Greco-Italian campaign no exception. Amongst the Italian public there was strong anti-German feeling well before the war, whilst Britain (and Greece also, but not Yugoslavia) was seen, by both the public and the Royalists, as a natural ally. I cannot stress this point enough. Italo Balbo was the one person of note in the Fascist camp who was vocally anti-German and pro-British, but he was shot down by friendly fire when the war started. (That being said, hypocritical British policy against the Italians pushed Mussolini towards Germany). He (Balbo) claimed that they would end up licking the German boots and was right.
:Being intended as an encyclopaedia, Misplaced Pages is therefore intended as a literature review, not a place to present ‘original’ research based on your own analysis. What you are saying about the French campaign is logical, but you need to cite someone from literature as having put forward that analysis….or wait until relevant historiographical research is published (otherwise you shouldn’t attempt to include it). If there are a group of historians that paint the picture of “Italians being ineffective” and another group that paint the picture you described, for example, then its best to present both and highlight the inconsistency in the historiography. The final “article” needs to be neutral and summarise existing literature – regardless of your view.


:I’ve since skim-read some of your comments on the French Campaign discussion page. Based on my cursory view, other editors are correct to ask you to provide your sources – if you have them, there is nothing wrong with putting them forward in the article. If the sources are appropriate, then it would be bad form for other contributors to dismiss them out of hand etc. Some of what you said, regarding Mussolini’s political objectives, sounds fine but you need to cite appropriately – but I thought it was already famously covered in literature and therefore likely to be on the article page (if not, include it and cite the sources). I notice you mentioned Sadkovich in one of your discussions on this topic. If it’s the piece I think it is, Sadkovich’s work there pertained to the North African campaign, not the French – so there is no point in presenting his work as evidence. These are just my suggestions. Again, good luck with it all. Its near-impossible to please everyone. ] (]) 12:59, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Whilst Mussolini did not enjoy anywhere near the same total support as Hitler did, he was able to silence any opposition by various means, typically through thuggery, but also often by false accusation and incarceration. So he was able to do things with free hand, but only so long as he produced enough results.
::Just thought of another angle that might help with perspective on this. If you have poor ‘doctrine’, or even, as in the Italy WWII case, sound doctrine but inadequate inventory (etc) to back it up, then the chances of the assault being effective is minimal. If you, with this doctrine / inventory mismatch, initiate an assault up mountain ranges, in the wrong season, with logistics that allow you to attack only with a force half the size of those opposing (who also know you are coming), then no matter how effective your soldiers/units individually, there is ‘buckleys’ chance of anything going right / being ‘effective'. This was the case in Greece (and maybe to some extent in France?) – in North Africa, it was a case of sending the troops on a desert stroll in isolated units and expecting them to just work it out and come out trumps. That was the result of Mussolini’s opportunism with the expectation that everyone was ready to fall over and call umpire at the first shot. I think most texts have purveyed this, without stressing that the often untrained/under-equipped troops did what they could and did it tough – and pretty much had no chance from the onset. This is the perspective which most main-streamers who claim cowardice miss, which is their prerogative.


::So in terms of your discussions Italian’s in the initial campaigns (East Africa excepted – and France where the terrain was as per Greece?) the initial Italian overall assaults can be summarised as ineffective, per the above perspective. Did they become more effective? Yes - unfortunately coinciding with German assistance. Does this mean Italian soldiers/units were ineffective and cowardly considering the standard of their equipment? No. Its subtle, but an ineffective overall assault does not mean soldiers and their units are ineffective (there are too many examples that that prove otherwise). The Italian early WWII situation is simply an example of how detrimental poor/hasty leadership and planning can be.] (]) 11:03, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
The public were aware of the strain of previous wars on the economy. The Ethiopian invasion is well known to have cost far more than predicted and place enormous strain on the economy. However, the Spanish civil war, in which Italian involvement to not finish until 1939, cost even more, amounting to around 14% of the GDP. Unlike the Germans, who ensured that they received payment from Franco for their services, Mussolini gave Italian aid for free (only later presenting a bill that was never paid). The economic impact of these wars is discussed by Walker (yet again) and in Anton Beevor’s Spanish Civil War.


I don't think that cowardice is even an issue these days Romaioi. The Italian soldier was no more a coward than the British, German or Frenchman. However, soldiers can display cowardly moments from time to time, but there wasn't anything particularly cowardly with the Italians. Those early defeats where the news-reels show thousands of Italian soldiers surrendering with their hands up can be easily equated with the French or Germans or the Russians surrendering en masse. Once an army is out flanked and out maneuvered, there is little left to do but surrender.
Even Mussolini was aware that the country needed to consolidate – they had actually made good plans to do so. He actually informed the Germans that Italy would not be ready for any conflict until 1943. And Hitler promised no wars until then. This “deceipt” by Hitler is partly what catalysed Mussolini’s motivation to jump in. But mainly, Mussolini was merely being opportunistic and thought the war would be over in months. He went in knowing full well that Italy was not prepared and he was aware that the military was not sufficiently modernised, equipped or coordinated – he has never been forgiven. (He was even so silly as to declare war when half the merchant fleet was at foreign ports – all lost overnight.) It was also an opportunity for him to distract the public from the growing economic troubles at home (standard political practice really).


No, the problem is that for too long, Anglo-American writers, many of them popular history writers (but even academics who should know better) have made so many superficial comparisons backed by shoddy/lazy research, that their information was compromised,inadequate, partial, incomplete or obtained from the over-critical Germans who were always ready to pass the blame to the Italians when things went wrong, cultural bias and a visceral dislike of southern Europeans, passing off statements as if they were fact, and blatant lies and misinformation (yes, the English do in fact, tell fibs - horror of horrors!!) that the whole sub-genre of the Italian involvement in the war, really needs a new start. We need to gather all those dusty history books written by people like Shearer and Thackerh, Cruickshank,Levine, Liddell Hart, Mack Smith, and a whole plethora of others, collect them all, and in Trafalgar Square light a huge bonfire and burn them. Then, start all over again on a clean and crystal clear slate. Unfortunately Misplaced Pages is a cess-pool of such writers, their last refuge in a mosquito-infested swamp! Dark, murky and insalubrious.
The decision to invade Greece (which obviously came later) was solely Mussolini's (I have read conflicting stories on what Cianno wanted – all I know is he wanted an expansionist policy but I am not sure how Greece fared in his mind), yet the the rest of the high command, Bodaglio included, irrespective of how much they may have dissagreed, were incompetently complacent. So they are equally to blame. There are plenty of texts about all this (most only talk about it in patches though), but I can’t list all of them off the top of my head. (You know of Bauer, Walker and now Beevor. But also Bierman and Smith’s book on Alamein talks about it. The two books by Eugenio Corti also talk about the soldiers perspective in general. That’s what I can remember off the top of my head.)


Well, I have said enough. I think my views are pretty clear by now. Yes, the Italian army was under-equipped and lacked the mobility and fire-power muscle of the Germans. It's punches were light and there was not enough follow through. However, it did what it could do well enough. The US supplied Britain and Russia with a mountain of armaments, trucks and material. Unfortunately, the Germans were either reluctant or could not supply the Italians with the same level of material resources. The Italians often did not want German soldiers - they wanted German weapons! They were quite capable of doing the fighting without the Germans - they just needed the materials to do the job properly.] (]) 18:04, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Whilst the public could not do much to stop the war from occurring there was a great deal of sabotage of the War effort “from home”. Munition supply cases were often sent to the fronts full of sand, for example. This happened a great deal and I am surprised there isn’t much written in English texts (actually I am not surprised). My grandfather, spoke of this frequently. He was an ''arditi'' who served in Yugoslavia and North Africa. And won a silver medal for bravery for successfully diverting an enemy attack, that otherwise would have taken his unit by surprise, onto himself (or his general direction). Prior to that he was shot in the neck (a superficial wound), but refused to be left to wait for medical aid (as it usually never arrived and it meant death or capture), so he continued on.


== ''The Bugle'': Issue CIX, April 2015 ==
Being of Italian descent and having spoken to plenty of people (mainly southern Italians) who lived through the war, my father included, I always received the same message: Italians did not want the war. Most of the evidence suggests this to be genuine.
From a personal perspective I do not see why the Italians did not attempt to align themselves with Greece and Yugoslavia in the form of a genuine economic/military alliance. To me it seams obvious. I believe that is would have been win-win, both defensively, economically and regional stability. But of course, this is all from the luxury of my own arm chair.


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My own pet interest in the war is the plight of the common soldier on both sides, who was always sent in to do the dirty work and die for the political cronies who sent them to fight, almost always for the wrong reasons. Equally, I am interested in the fate of civilians. And I enjoy learning of the lesser known stories.
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CX, May 2015 ==
Sorry, I have written a lot.


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Sincerely,
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXI, June 2015 ==
] (]) 03:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


{| style="width: 100%;"
:I fully understand the passion with which you write. It was a stupid, needless war, on which both sides suffered. As you can imagine, I too had family members in the front (my grandmother's brother was actually killed during the first days of the war in Pindus), so I too grew up with tales of it. My own grandfather was very reluctant to go, so his tales were always a bit more realistic and gritty than what one heard on TV or read in books. I don't think that we, today, could endure as much as they did. But here in Greece, the repulsion of the invasion is (justifiably) a major source of pride, with the result that public perception of it is neither very critical nor objective (it often reminds one of the Soviet/Russian stance on the "Great Patriotic War").
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXII, July 2015 ==
:The attitude towards the Italians is ambivalent: on the one hand, they are looked down upon for having been defeated and then claiming victory by clinging to the heels of the Wehrmacht (which often leads many to underestimate their valour as individual soldiers). In turn, as a people they are well liked - there is the saying "una fazza, una razza" - and their relatively humane and un-warlike comportment as occupiers makes them more sympathetic in tales. But still, to many Greeks, even today, as far as WW2 is concerned, they were invaders and occupiers, and only that. I remember that about 15 years ago, some family friends, who had been born a few years after WW2, visited Italy, around the ''Festa della Liberazione''. They were outraged that the Italians had the temerity to celebrate Resistance against the Germans. Very few people here know or bother to know anything of what happened in Italy after 1943, and the Occupation was a traumatic event for Greece...


{| style="width: 100%;"
:As for the Italian army, the only book I've read that covers the Italian war effort as a whole is "Hitler's Italian Allies" by MacGregor Knox. As is evident from the title alone, he doesn't take a sympathetic point of view, but still, the data he presents are both shocking and overwhelming in quantity and their implications. Even taking account for some bias, they show a military machine that is outdated, totally unprepared, with serious deficiencies in the command echelons and the strategic level, not to speak of the armaments industry and the national economy. To go to war, even as opportunistically as Mussolini did, with such a military, was simply a crime, tantamount to treason.
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXIII, August 2015 ==
:However I don't think that Mussolini or the Royalist elite would have even thought of the alliance you proposed with Greece or Yugoslavia. Their minds, already since the 1910s, had been set on a "Mediterranean Empire" which involved the subordination of these countries. Bear in mind that Italy occupied the Dodecanese in 1912, promised freedom to the islands' population and to Greece, even signed a treaty to this effect in 1919, and then unilaterally withdrew. In 1920, during the war in Anatolia, they offered shelter to Kemal's irregulars in their occupation zone, and after they withdrew, they supplied the Turks with weapons. Then they applied pressure in favour of Albania on the Northern Epiruys issue, and then there was the Corfu episode. So there was a lot of bad blood between Greece and Italy, even before Mussolini came to power. Ironically, in the early 1930s, Venizelos steered Greece away from Britain and towards Italy. If Mussolini had been a more far-sighted man, that could have been the beginning of a close relationship. Of course, given the internal political turmoil in Greece at the time, making such predictions is tricky, and either way, whether this "alliance" would have succeeded in remaining neutral during or after WW2, is questionable. Cheers, ] ] 11:17, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


{| style="width: 100%;"
::I completely understand the Greek perspective. It is to be expected. In the same fashion, Italians could justifiably have the same attitude towards the French and Austrians, in so much they are invader/occupiers - but for some reason they do not. Instead they have these attitudes against each other. And I certainly applaud the achievements of the Greeks in defending their homeland. No invasion with that kind of motivation is justified, benevolent rulers or not. But Mussolini was an irrational megalomaniac; his mindset being akin to that of the British and French 40+ years prior. So he and his cohorts sought expansion in the same fashion. Treason is precisely the right word for what Mussolini etc did, particularly in light of the fact that they were aware of the issues and actually had a timeline in place to modernize etc.
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXIV, September 2015 ==
::Whilst I can understand the perspective of your friends, it does highlight that progress come comes from understanding all perspectives. Going back to the Italian perspective as an example, it is important to realize that the situation in Italy was rather complicated. For Italians, beyond their immediate poverty, their main concerns were the oppression they experienced under Mussolini’s Fascism, their brothers, fathers and sons being sent to foreign lands to be slaughtered for causes they did not believe in, and their suffering under the Nazi’s (which was rather immense). From this perspective, they have every right to celebrate their liberation. I would hope that your friends would appreciate this and the fact that post-WWII Italy was governed by the very people who fought against the fascists and the Nazi’s (they fought against them in Spain also).


{| style="width: 100%;"
::The hardships were no less severe than in any other place. My grandfather, after returning from his ordeals (the chap spent three days in the morgue because he was believed dead from his wounds after his drawing of the enemy attack I spoke of) had to then hide and defend his family from the General Juin-sanctioned rapes and murders that were occurring around Monte Cassino. My wife’s grandfather, a Bersiglieri, survived 2 years in a Nazi concentration camp (extra special treatment was reserved for Italians as a result of their perceived betrayal). A family friend’s father, who served at Tobruk, does not so much begrudge the Germans as he does feel that the Italian betrayal of the Germans was shocking (though he does not appear to be fully aware of the Germans provocation) – but I understand where he is coming from. Another family member, a priest, was shot for hiding Jews during the German occupation. I am sure you could draw many parallels.
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::To my knowledge Italy has apologized for her wrong doings (with the possible exception of some atrocities in Africa). Though it will be no consolation to Greece, Italy certainly received more punishment that she gave. In the end, my opinion does not matter. There is nothing I can do. But all I know is that if all nations refuse to understand events from all perspectives then we will never move forward. Moreover, those who chose to slant history, or chose to ignore the facts, are almost as guilty as those who committed the crimes. Many historians are guilty of this. Reconciliation is always possible, Australia and Turkey are an example of this. Unfortunately, Turkey and Armenia are an example of the opposite.


Greetings from ]! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual ] election. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the ] by 23:59 (UTC) on 29 September. Yours, ]&nbsp;<sup>]]&nbsp;]]</sup> 05:21, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
::Yet, same theme continually re-emerges: the politics of the few always destroys the prospects and relationships of the many.
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXV, October 2015 ==
::On another note, you may not be aware of it but there were Royalists that were pro-Greece. Given that Italy’s queen was from Montenegro, it also stands to reason that pro-Yugoslav factions were present. The Corfu incident was Mussolini (taking advantage of the death of one of his Generals), Albania was considered by the Italians as within their sphere of influence in accordance with the 1915 Treaty of London (it was not an anti-Greek affair, the motivation was the protection her interests) and the Dodecanese was to be returned to Greece in exchange for land in Anatolia, which did not occur as a result of the Greco-Turkish war. I am also sure that the Greek occupation, by force, of Turkish territory that was designated to Italy under the 1917 Agreement of St.-Jean-de-Maurienne did not help things. So as we can see, those events were not as simple as suggested in your text (I am not critcising, I am merely highlighting that there is probably much more to it than either of us understand). I have never come across a source that discusses the Italians giving aid to Kemal’s troops in that manner, so I cannot comment. I do find it surprising, however, given that the two countries were extremely antagonistic towards each other since prior to the Italo-Turkish war – there was greater animosity between Italy and Turkey than Italy and Greece.


{| style="width: 100%;"
::My suggestion of a Greco-Italo-Yugoslav alliance was not based on any historical precedent – it just seams logical to me. I was aware of Venizelos’s motives towards Italy and have always found Mussolini’s decision to invade Greece all the more outrageous for it. Una fazza, una razza is so very true, which made it all the more a shame for what occurred. Most Sincerely ] (]) 17:39, 7 June 2008 (UTC).
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXVI, November 2015 ==
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXVII, December 2015 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXVIII, January 2016 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXIX, February 2016 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXX, March 2016 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXI, April 2016 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXII, May–June 2016 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXIII, July 2016 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXIV, August 2016 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXV, September 2016 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXVI, October 2016 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXVII, November 2016 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Interview: '']''
* Review essay: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== Europe 10,000 Challenge invite ==

Hi. The ] has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland ]. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like Germany, Italy, the Benelux countries, Iberian Peninsula, Romania, Slovenia etc, much like ]. For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. If you would like to see masses of articles being improved for Europe and your specialist country like ], sign up today and once the challenge starts a contest can be organized. This is a way we can target every country of Europe, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant and also sign under any country sub challenge on the page that you might contribute to! Thank you. --] (]) 21:09, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXVIII, December 2016 ==

{| style="width: 100%;"
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| ]
| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Review essay: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
</div>
|-
|}
|}
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== Voting for the Military history WikiProject Historian and Newcomer of the Year is ending soon! ==

{| style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; margin-bottom: 1em; background: transparent;"
|- valign="top" style="text-align: center;"
| ]&nbsp;]<br/>]
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Time is running out to voting for the ] and ]! If you have not yet cast a vote, please consider doing so soon. The voting will end on 31 December at 23:59 UTC, with the presentation of the awards to the winners and runners up to occur on 1 January 2017. For the Military history WikiProject Coordinators, ] (]) 05:02, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXIX, January 2017 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXX, February 2017 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== March Madness 2017 ==

G'day all, please be advised that throughout March 2017 the Military history Wikiproject is running its ]. This is a backlog drive that is focused on several key areas:

* tagging and assessing articles that fall within the project's scope
* updating the project's currently listed A-class articles to ensure their ongoing compliance with the listed criteria
* creating articles that are listed as "requested" on the project's various task force pages or other lists of missing articles.

As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.

The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the military history scope will be considered eligible. More information can be found ] for those that are interested, and members can sign up as participants at that page also.

The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 March and runs until 23:59 UTC on 31 March 2017, so please sign up now.

For the Milhist co-ordinators. Regards, ] (]) & ] (]) 07:24, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
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== Fair Use in Australia discussion ==

As an Australian Wikipedian, your opinion is sought on a proposal to advocate for the introduction of ''Fair Use'' into Australian copyright law. The discussion is taking place ], please read the proposal and comment there. ] ] (]) 11:08, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXXI, March 2017 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXXII, April 2017 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXXIII, May 2017 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXXIV, June 2017 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXXV, July 2017 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
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* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXXVI, August 2017 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXXVII, September 2017 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== 2017 Military history WikiProject Coordinator election ==

Greetings from the ]! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway. As a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the ]. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 29 September. Thank you for your time. For the current tranche of Coordinators, ] (]) 10:39, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXXVIII, October 2017 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXXXIX, November 2017 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ] ==

Hi. We're into the last five days of the ]. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!
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== 2017 Military Historian of the Year and Newcomer of the Year nominations and voting ==

As we approach the end of the year, the Military History project is looking to recognise editors who have made a real difference. Each year we do this by bestowing two awards: the ] and the ]. The ] invite all project members to get involved by nominating any editor they feel merits recognition for their contributions to the project. Nominations for both awards are open between 00:01 on 2 December 2017 and 23:59 on 15 December 2017. After this, a 14-day voting period will follow commencing at 00:01 on 16 December 2017. Nominations and voting will take place on the main project talkpage: ] and ]. Thank you for your time. For the co-ordinators, ] (]) 08:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXL, December 2017 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== User group for Military Historians ==

Greetings,

"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Misplaced Pages. Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at ].

] (]) 11:30, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXLI, January 2018 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXLII, February 2018 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXLIII, March 2018 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXLIIV, April 2018 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Review essay: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXLIV, May 2018 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXLVI, June 2018 ==

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{|
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXLVII, July 2018 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXLVIII, August 2018 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
* Timeline: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXLIX, September 2018 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CL, October 2018 ==

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* Project news: '']''
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* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLI, November 2018 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLII, December 2018 ==

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* Project news: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLIII, January 2019 ==

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* Articles: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLIV, February 2019 ==

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* Project news: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLV, March 2019 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLVI, April 2019 ==

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* Project news: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLVII, May 2019 ==

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* Project news: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLVIII, June 2019 ==

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* Project news: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLIX, July 2019 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLX, August 2019 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLX, August 2019 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXI, September 2019 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXII, October 2019 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXIII, November 2019 ==

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* Project news: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXIV, December 2019 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXV, January 2020 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': IssueICLXVI, February 2020 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXVII, March 2020 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXVIII, April 2020 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXIX, May 2020 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXX, June 2020 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXI, July 2020 ==

{| style="width: 100%;"
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{|
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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXII, August 2020 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue Issue CLXXIII, September 2020 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
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* Book review: '']''
* Review Essay: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXIV, October 2020 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXV, November 2020 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
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* Op-ed: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXVI, December 2020 ==

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* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXVII, January 2021 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXVIII, February 2021 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXVIII, February 2021 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXIX, March 2021 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
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== April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive ==

Hey y'all, the ] begins at 00:01 UTC on April 1, 2021 and runs through 23:59 UTC on April 31, 2021. Points can be earned through reviewing articles on the ], reviewing articles listed at ], reviewing MILHIST-tagged articles at ] or ], and reviewing articles submitted at ]. Service awards and barnstars are given for set points thresholds, and the top three finishers will receive further awards. To participate, sign up at ] and create a worklist at ] (examples are given). Further details can be found at the drive page. Questions can be asked at the ]. ] (]) 17:24, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXX, April 2021 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXXI, May 2021 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXXII, June 2021 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXXIII, July 2021 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXXIV, August 2021 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXXV, September 2021 ==

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| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Op-ed: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXV, October 2021 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXVI, November 2021 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXVII, December 2021 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
* Review essay: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXVIII, January 2022 ==

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* Project news: '']''
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* Review essay: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXVIV, February 2022 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXVII, March 2022 ==

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* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CLXXVIII, April 2022 ==

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* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXCIII, May 2022 ==

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* Project news: '']''
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* Book review: '']''
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== ''The Bugle'': Issue CXCIV, June 2022 ==

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* Project news: '']''
* Articles: '']''
* Book review: '']''
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Latest revision as of 06:52, 21 October 2023

This user may have left Misplaced Pages. Romaioi has not edited Misplaced Pages since 7 April 2015. As a result, any requests made here may not receive a response. If you are seeking assistance, you may need to approach someone else.
Romaioi is busy in real life and may not respond swiftly to queries.

To promote misconception is not to serve history. History is concerned with the objective interpretation of events and the actions of people, not the propagation of myth or political agenda.

The one who is right is the one with the facts, not the one with the most popular opinion - Warren Buffet.

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Quality Management Inspection Medal
I, No. 108, am honored to award you this medal for your intelligent and assiduous contributions to the quality management inspection process. I appreciate your assistance in improving the "Stable Version" of the Byzantine Empire entry. Always know that you have this humble inspector's gratitude and respect. No. 108 (talk) 04:57, 10 December 2011 (UTC)


Anglo-American bias against the Italian war effort

Hi Romaioi,

I'm having a hard time with these wiki people who keep perpetuating the myth that the Italians were ineffective fighters. Many of them appear to be Brits or Australians who have read nonsense about the Italians and are perpetuating their myths on Misplaced Pages. Do you have any advice for me on how to deal with such obvious bias and misinformation? AnnalesSchool (talk) 22:15, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi AnnalesSchool,
Some people will never change their views. It’s a simple as that – it won’t matter what evidence is presented. All you can do is present the facts “objectively and academically" and make sure they are backed by multiple sources (I was always at pains to ensure at least one citation for almost every sentence contributed). That’s pretty much it - and be sure to demonstrate good faith and follow the correct Wiki policies.
How that is responded to will elucidate the characters you are dealing with. (Eventually, if you are doing the right thing, good faith contributors may provide support.)
There is an oddity in the tendency of some ‘contributors’ to plainly delete cited content due to it not agreeing with their ‘expert opinion’ – if they provide an explanation at all. Or, a classic, change the sentence/content (without reading the cited material) so that the correlation is lost or manipulated. And then there is also a trend to consensus agreement on loosely cited content while heavily cited content is heavily opposed. All ‘bad faith’ behaviour – which I believe would be a breach of some wiki policy or another – but proving such things will often take up more energy than its worth. But those following policies and procedures correctly may eventually address it - and the majority of contributors are very well intentioned.
There are also cases where a group of like minded individuals get together and agree that a professionally published (and peer reviewed) researcher does not mean what author wrote but the opposite instead (or that the author is not credible for ‘such and such reason’ and ‘my expert "original" research based opinion'...). There seams to be a propensity to want to contribute to articles based on nationalist tendencies in some cases. The Byzantine articles are an example – apparently they were never Roman, doesn't matter what they called themselves, what their neighbours labelled them, or what scholars constantly inform us of. Just about everything Roman gets a 'Greek' label, even in the classical Roman period. But, no matter how out of kilter with scholarship or even true consensus thought, a small active group can always push their view if they stick with it and Game the System – the rest simply have better things to do.
The views around axis-Italian WWII efforts are odd one given that the weight of WWII propaganda (allied and German alike) is still very heavy in the perceptions of some. However, there is a growing trend to reassess these more objectively (in academia at least). After all – the Italian disasters (disasters they were – all due to poor planning and supplies, especially Greece) were no worse than those of other nations. And it’s not just the Italians that suffer from the propaganda, the efforts of (the brilliant) O’Connor and even Auchelink have also been diminished as a result. It will simply take time for more objective assessments to prevail – and take further time for it to filter to the mainstream readers that form the majority of contributors on Misplaced Pages (most of whom probably have never had a front-line war experience).
That being said, the majority of scholarship, old and new, has very rarely regarded the Italian soldier as cowardly. The distinction has been made in literature between the actions of the soldiers and the pitiful strategic, logistical and tactical situations they were thrown into at the war’s onset. (Perhaps you can approach it from this perspective?) If mainstream people are taking from literature that the Italians were cowards, then they are most likely misinterpreting what the bulk of the literature is saying. Multiple authors have pointed out that the Italian troops faced greater everyday hardship on the ground compared to both their foes and allies (in North Africa and Greece). Even the Australian War correspondent, Chestor Wilmott, was at pains to, point out the fight put up during O’Connor’s campaign was fierce. Yet it is simplest dismiss Italian contributions as irrelevant as it fits more easily into a simpler narrative – means less perceived effort in studying the nuances (nuances that, for me, are enjoyable to learn) – such as the difficulty of standing and fighting in the dessert without water (as well as effective supplies and armament). It is, after all, a convoluted topic, and much more did happen in the war.
Perhaps the perception of some mainstream readers around the Italians exacerbated by the view that the fortunes were turned only with German intervention. German intervention absolutely made a difference, but it occurred as the Italian command was getting its act together. The divisions supporting Rommel were mostly much better equipped and the Italian navy was never an issue. It stuck to (and met) its strategic objectives and demonstrated tenacity, despite its clear technological disadvantages and set backs. Moreover, the fact that Rommel’s fortunes ebbed and flowed in parallel with those of the Italian navy in getting supplies through is almost ignored – a mini example of what really won the war in the end: better strategic and logistical planning, supported by industrial capacity. Rommel’s two divisions would have gotten nowhere without the logistics that backed them.
I would like to have contributed more, but life gets in the way. I honestly don’t know where people are finding the time.
With the people you are discussing ‘cowardice’ with you could try elucidating that the British, French, Russians and Chinese all suffered similar setback as the Italians did at the beginning of the war. The circumstances, supplies, strategic position, relative hardship etc are all similar in one respect or another. Then ask: why are the Italians the only lot in this group that are cowards? The correct answer would be: None of them were.
Good luck with it all. Romaioi (talk) 10:35, 5 October 2014 (UTC)


Thanks Romaioi. Yes you are right that people rarely change their minds and have such rigid views. But at least in academia, historians are beginning to revise and reappraise the Italian involvement in the war. The problem with Misplaced Pages is that it is actually prolonging the myths and misinformation and is heavily partisan and bias in approach, so it has become a conservative rather than a progressive force. Also, unfortunately, many people get their information from Wiki these days, because they do not have the time or inclination to research more thoroughly. It's a long slow process but I am confident that things are actually changing even at Misplaced Pages. The use of older authors is declining hopefully, those arrogant arm-chair historians, for a younger set who are less inclined to receive their information second or third hand.AnnalesSchool (talk) 11:20, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

One other thing I find strange Ramaioi about some Wiki editors, is their lack of common sense when quoting and paraphrasing material. A good example is the Italian attack into France in June 1940. The attack started on the 21st June and by the 24th is was over. Now that left only 3 days of actual fighting. In other words, by the time the Italians got their guns into position, started shelling the French fortifications, is was pretty much over. And yet the Italians are berated for having advanced only 10 kms in some places, and 50 in others. And then the inevitable comparison with the spectacular German blitzkrieg in the north of France. When I try to point out the obvious that the Germans had 3 weeks of fighting on very different terrain, with much more space for mobility, etc. certain Wiki authors reply: Well, what are your sources?? In other words, they will only believe something if it can be quoted and cannot actually synthesize the information before them. In other words, they are like people in the Middle Ages who believed the world was flat because "the sources" told them so, rather than use a bit of common sense and the old grey matter. So many of the Wiki military articles are a ramshackle collection of quotes and paraphrases without actual analysis. A PhD student submitting a thesis will be failed by his professor if he produced a thesis without his own careful analysis of the material, followed by synthesis. It isn't enough to just throw in quote after quote and think you've done a good job.AnnalesSchool (talk) 11:52, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Wow, those were quick responses.
Being intended as an encyclopaedia, Misplaced Pages is therefore intended as a literature review, not a place to present ‘original’ research based on your own analysis. What you are saying about the French campaign is logical, but you need to cite someone from literature as having put forward that analysis….or wait until relevant historiographical research is published (otherwise you shouldn’t attempt to include it). If there are a group of historians that paint the picture of “Italians being ineffective” and another group that paint the picture you described, for example, then its best to present both and highlight the inconsistency in the historiography. The final “article” needs to be neutral and summarise existing literature – regardless of your view.
I’ve since skim-read some of your comments on the French Campaign discussion page. Based on my cursory view, other editors are correct to ask you to provide your sources – if you have them, there is nothing wrong with putting them forward in the article. If the sources are appropriate, then it would be bad form for other contributors to dismiss them out of hand etc. Some of what you said, regarding Mussolini’s political objectives, sounds fine but you need to cite appropriately – but I thought it was already famously covered in literature and therefore likely to be on the article page (if not, include it and cite the sources). I notice you mentioned Sadkovich in one of your discussions on this topic. If it’s the piece I think it is, Sadkovich’s work there pertained to the North African campaign, not the French – so there is no point in presenting his work as evidence. These are just my suggestions. Again, good luck with it all. Its near-impossible to please everyone. Romaioi (talk) 12:59, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Just thought of another angle that might help with perspective on this. If you have poor ‘doctrine’, or even, as in the Italy WWII case, sound doctrine but inadequate inventory (etc) to back it up, then the chances of the assault being effective is minimal. If you, with this doctrine / inventory mismatch, initiate an assault up mountain ranges, in the wrong season, with logistics that allow you to attack only with a force half the size of those opposing (who also know you are coming), then no matter how effective your soldiers/units individually, there is ‘buckleys’ chance of anything going right / being ‘effective'. This was the case in Greece (and maybe to some extent in France?) – in North Africa, it was a case of sending the troops on a desert stroll in isolated units and expecting them to just work it out and come out trumps. That was the result of Mussolini’s opportunism with the expectation that everyone was ready to fall over and call umpire at the first shot. I think most texts have purveyed this, without stressing that the often untrained/under-equipped troops did what they could and did it tough – and pretty much had no chance from the onset. This is the perspective which most main-streamers who claim cowardice miss, which is their prerogative.
So in terms of your discussions Italian’s in the initial campaigns (East Africa excepted – and France where the terrain was as per Greece?) the initial Italian overall assaults can be summarised as ineffective, per the above perspective. Did they become more effective? Yes - unfortunately coinciding with German assistance. Does this mean Italian soldiers/units were ineffective and cowardly considering the standard of their equipment? No. Its subtle, but an ineffective overall assault does not mean soldiers and their units are ineffective (there are too many examples that that prove otherwise). The Italian early WWII situation is simply an example of how detrimental poor/hasty leadership and planning can be.Romaioi (talk) 11:03, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

I don't think that cowardice is even an issue these days Romaioi. The Italian soldier was no more a coward than the British, German or Frenchman. However, soldiers can display cowardly moments from time to time, but there wasn't anything particularly cowardly with the Italians. Those early defeats where the news-reels show thousands of Italian soldiers surrendering with their hands up can be easily equated with the French or Germans or the Russians surrendering en masse. Once an army is out flanked and out maneuvered, there is little left to do but surrender.

No, the problem is that for too long, Anglo-American writers, many of them popular history writers (but even academics who should know better) have made so many superficial comparisons backed by shoddy/lazy research, that their information was compromised,inadequate, partial, incomplete or obtained from the over-critical Germans who were always ready to pass the blame to the Italians when things went wrong, cultural bias and a visceral dislike of southern Europeans, passing off statements as if they were fact, and blatant lies and misinformation (yes, the English do in fact, tell fibs - horror of horrors!!) that the whole sub-genre of the Italian involvement in the war, really needs a new start. We need to gather all those dusty history books written by people like Shearer and Thackerh, Cruickshank,Levine, Liddell Hart, Mack Smith, and a whole plethora of others, collect them all, and in Trafalgar Square light a huge bonfire and burn them. Then, start all over again on a clean and crystal clear slate. Unfortunately Misplaced Pages is a cess-pool of such writers, their last refuge in a mosquito-infested swamp! Dark, murky and insalubrious.

Well, I have said enough. I think my views are pretty clear by now. Yes, the Italian army was under-equipped and lacked the mobility and fire-power muscle of the Germans. It's punches were light and there was not enough follow through. However, it did what it could do well enough. The US supplied Britain and Russia with a mountain of armaments, trucks and material. Unfortunately, the Germans were either reluctant or could not supply the Italians with the same level of material resources. The Italians often did not want German soldiers - they wanted German weapons! They were quite capable of doing the fighting without the Germans - they just needed the materials to do the job properly.AnnalesSchool (talk) 18:04, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CIX, April 2015

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The Bugle: Issue CX, May 2015

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The Bugle: Issue CXI, June 2015

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The Bugle: Issue CXII, July 2015

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The Bugle: Issue CXIII, August 2015

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The Bugle: Issue CXIV, September 2015

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WikiProject Military history coordinator election

Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 29 September. Yours, Ed  05:21, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXV, October 2015

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The Bugle: Issue CXVI, November 2015

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ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:49, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history WikiProject historian and newcomer of the year awards now open!

On behalf of the Military history WikiProject's Coordinators, we would like to extend an invitation to nominate deserving editors for the 2015 Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year awards. The nomination period will run from 7 December to 23:59 13 December, with the election phase running from 14 December to 23:59 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:05, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXVII, December 2015

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The Bugle: Issue CXVIII, January 2016

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The Bugle: Issue CXIX, February 2016

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The Bugle: Issue CXX, March 2016

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The Bugle: Issue CXXI, April 2016

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The Bugle: Issue CXXII, May–June 2016

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The Bugle: Issue CXXIII, July 2016

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The Bugle: Issue CXXIV, August 2016

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The Bugle: Issue CXXV, September 2016

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Military history WikiProject coordinator election

Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway, and as a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 23 September. For the Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:01, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXVI, October 2016

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The Bugle: Issue CXXVII, November 2016

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Europe 10,000 Challenge invite

Hi. The Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Europe/The 10,000 Challenge has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland Misplaced Pages:The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like Germany, Italy, the Benelux countries, Iberian Peninsula, Romania, Slovenia etc, much like Misplaced Pages:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. If you would like to see masses of articles being improved for Europe and your specialist country like Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon, sign up today and once the challenge starts a contest can be organized. This is a way we can target every country of Europe, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant and also sign under any country sub challenge on the page that you might contribute to! Thank you. --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:09, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXVIII, December 2016

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Voting for the Military history WikiProject Historian and Newcomer of the Year is ending soon!

 

Time is running out to voting for the Military Historian and Newcomer of the year! If you have not yet cast a vote, please consider doing so soon. The voting will end on 31 December at 23:59 UTC, with the presentation of the awards to the winners and runners up to occur on 1 January 2017. For the Military history WikiProject Coordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:02, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXXIX, January 2017

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The Bugle: Issue CXXX, February 2017

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March Madness 2017

G'day all, please be advised that throughout March 2017 the Military history Wikiproject is running its March Madness drive. This is a backlog drive that is focused on several key areas:

  • tagging and assessing articles that fall within the project's scope
  • updating the project's currently listed A-class articles to ensure their ongoing compliance with the listed criteria
  • creating articles that are listed as "requested" on the project's various task force pages or other lists of missing articles.

As with past Milhist drives, there are points awarded for working on articles in the targeted areas, with barnstars being awarded at the end for different levels of achievement.

The drive is open to all Wikipedians, not just members of the Military history project, although only work on articles that fall (broadly) within the military history scope will be considered eligible. More information can be found here for those that are interested, and members can sign up as participants at that page also.

The drive starts at 00:01 UTC on 1 March and runs until 23:59 UTC on 31 March 2017, so please sign up now.

For the Milhist co-ordinators. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) & MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:24, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Fair Use in Australia discussion

As an Australian Wikipedian, your opinion is sought on a proposal to advocate for the introduction of Fair Use into Australian copyright law. The discussion is taking place at the Australian Wikipedians' notice board, please read the proposal and comment there. MediaWiki message delivery MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:08, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXI, March 2017

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXII, April 2017

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXIII, May 2017

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXIV, June 2017

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXV, July 2017

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXVI, August 2017

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXVII, September 2017

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2017 Military history WikiProject Coordinator election

Greetings from the Military history WikiProject! Elections for the Military history WikiProject Coordinators are currently underway. As a member of the WikiProject you are cordially invited to take part by casting your vote(s) for the candidates on the election page. This year's election will conclude at 23:59 UTC 29 September. Thank you for your time. For the current tranche of Coordinators, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:39, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXXXVIII, October 2017

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The Bugle: Issue CXXXIX, November 2017

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Women in Red World Contest

Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!

2017 Military Historian of the Year and Newcomer of the Year nominations and voting

As we approach the end of the year, the Military History project is looking to recognise editors who have made a real difference. Each year we do this by bestowing two awards: the Military Historian of the Year and the Military History Newcomer of the Year. The co-ordinators invite all project members to get involved by nominating any editor they feel merits recognition for their contributions to the project. Nominations for both awards are open between 00:01 on 2 December 2017 and 23:59 on 15 December 2017. After this, a 14-day voting period will follow commencing at 00:01 on 16 December 2017. Nominations and voting will take place on the main project talkpage: here and here. Thank you for your time. For the co-ordinators, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXL, December 2017

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User group for Military Historians

Greetings,

"Military history" is one of the most important subjects when speak of sum of all human knowledge. To support contributors interested in the area over various language Wikipedias, we intend to form a user group. It also provides a platform to share the best practices between military historians, and various military related projects on Wikipedias. An initial discussion was has been done between the coordinators and members of WikiProject Military History on English Misplaced Pages. Now this discussion has been taken to Meta-Wiki. Contributors intrested in the area of military history are requested to share their feedback and give suggestions at Talk:Discussion to incubate a user group for Misplaced Pages Military Historians.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:30, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CXLI, January 2018

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The Bugle: Issue CXLII, February 2018

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The Bugle: Issue CXLIII, March 2018

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The Bugle: Issue CXLIIV, April 2018

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The Bugle: Issue CXLIV, May 2018

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The Bugle: Issue CXLVI, June 2018

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The Bugle: Issue CXLVII, July 2018

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The Bugle: Issue CXLVIII, August 2018

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The Bugle: Issue CXLIX, September 2018

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The Bugle: Issue CL, October 2018

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The Bugle: Issue CLI, November 2018

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The Bugle: Issue CLII, December 2018

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The Bugle: Issue CLIII, January 2019

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The Bugle: Issue CLIV, February 2019

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The Bugle: Issue CLV, March 2019

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The Bugle: Issue CLVI, April 2019

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The Bugle: Issue CLVII, May 2019

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The Bugle: Issue CLVIII, June 2019

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The Bugle: Issue CLIX, July 2019

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The Bugle: Issue CLX, August 2019

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The Bugle: Issue CLX, August 2019

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The Bugle: Issue CLXI, September 2019

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The Bugle: Issue CLXII, October 2019

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The Bugle: Issue CLXIII, November 2019

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The Bugle: Issue CLXIV, December 2019

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The Bugle: Issue CLXV, January 2020

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The Bugle: IssueICLXVI, February 2020

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The Bugle: Issue CLXVII, March 2020

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The Bugle: Issue CLXVIII, April 2020

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The Bugle: Issue CLXIX, May 2020

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The Bugle: Issue CLXX, June 2020

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXI, July 2020

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXII, August 2020

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The Bugle: Issue Issue CLXXIII, September 2020

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXIV, October 2020

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXV, November 2020

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVI, December 2020

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVII, January 2021

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVIII, February 2021

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVIII, February 2021

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXIX, March 2021

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April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive

Hey y'all, the April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive begins at 00:01 UTC on April 1, 2021 and runs through 23:59 UTC on April 31, 2021. Points can be earned through reviewing articles on the AutoCheck report, reviewing articles listed at WP:MILHIST/ASSESS, reviewing MILHIST-tagged articles at WP:GAN or WP:FAC, and reviewing articles submitted at WP:MILHIST/ACR. Service awards and barnstars are given for set points thresholds, and the top three finishers will receive further awards. To participate, sign up at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Military_History/April 2021 Reviewing Drive#Participants and create a worklist at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Military history/April 2021 Reviewing Drive/Worklists (examples are given). Further details can be found at the drive page. Questions can be asked at the drive talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:24, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue CLXXX, April 2021

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXXI, May 2021

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXXII, June 2021

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXXIII, July 2021

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXXIV, August 2021

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXXV, September 2021

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXV, October 2021

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVI, November 2021

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVII, December 2021

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVIII, January 2022

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVIV, February 2022

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVII, March 2022

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The Bugle: Issue CLXXVIII, April 2022

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The Bugle: Issue CXCIII, May 2022

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The Bugle: Issue CXCIV, June 2022

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The Bugle: Issue CXCVI, July 2022

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The Bugle: Issue CXCVII, August 2022

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The Bugle: Issue CXCVIII, September 2022

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The Bugle: Issue CXCVIII, October 2022

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The Bugle: Issue CXCIX, November 2022

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The Bugle: Issue CC, December 2022

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The Bugle: Issue 201, January 2023

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The Bugle: Issue 202, February 2023

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The Bugle: Issue 203, March 2023

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The Bugle: Issue 204, April 2023

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The Bugle: Issue 205, May 2023

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The Bugle: Issue 205, May 2023

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The Bugle: Issue 206, June 2023

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The Bugle: Issue 207, July 2023

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The Bugle: Issue 208, August 2023

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The Bugle: Issue 209, September 2023

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The Bugle: Issue 210, October 2023

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