| Revision as of 02:54, 20 September 2008 editGuru Fatha Singh Khalsa (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,161 edits →Neutrality and sourcing← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 10:51, 10 November 2024 edit undoTom.Reding (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Template editors3,871,732 editsm blpo=yes + blp=no/null → blp=other; cleanupTag: AWB |
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{{Talk header|search=yes}} |
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{{WikiProject Yoga|importance=Low}} |
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"Join from every land, from every tradition, from every point of view. Join us as we make peace: peace with each other,peace with the land, peace with ourselves, and peace cereal." - Jonathan Stewart |
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This is an awfully fawning article, and sounds like it comes straight from the keyboard of any of this man's adherents. A criticism section is needed very badly. I don't have the necessary information to go through this, clean it up and add criticism, but if someone with a better understanding of all this would do so, that would be terrific. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 14:57, 4 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Unfortunately I have not the time to clean this up either, but it is a disgraceful article &, since it concerns a dangerous cult, is urgently in need of attention. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 14:53, 26 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Yogi Bhajan was a powerful man and leader who inspired many and changed many lives. He was ALSO a cult leader who took advantage of his powerful charisma and position and caused pain and emotional trauma to many of his followers. Many folks continue to benefit from his teachings. And there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of former 3HO members who have left that organization because they were emotionally (and occasionally physically or sexually) abused or because they experienced the dysfunction caused by an organization that in some ways functioned as a cult. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 18:21, 20 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== State Highway 106 - no such highway == |
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==Neutrality and sourcing== |
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It'd be nice to see a bit more sourcing from unaffiliated third-party sources such as newspaper obits (which are more readily verifiable than "in" publications) as well as representing critical opinion - e.g Time magazine had an article in 1977 (''''). I've added appropriate tags. |
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''The State of New Mexico honored Yogi Bhajan by naming of a highway after him. State Highway 106 which ran in front of his home was renamed the Yogi Bhajan Memorial Highway'' |
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There's also a deal of material that falsely gives the appearance of being sourced. For instance ... |
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Not a highway. It is a state road - and it's less than a mile long. Speed limit 35 mph. |
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<ref>https://www.google.com/maps/@35.9765876,-106.0436574,3a,37.5y,89.55h,88.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCzpLNAEbHK50jZtfjAI1PQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192</ref> |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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:By the 1990s, there was a culture shift. On a personal level, rising early and overtly being a Sikh was considered more of an option than an implied directive. Meanwhile, the surviving communal businesses had incorporated and many had grown exponentially to keep pace with the rising demand for health-oriented products and services. This period also saw an increased interest in yoga world-wide. To serve the changing times, Yogi Bhajan created the International Kundalini Yoga Teachers Association, dedicated to setting standards for teachers and the propagation of the teachings. (ref to )'' |
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== Yogi Bhajan edits & "Neutral Point of View" == |
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... where the reference only covers the final sentence. ] (]) 02:30, 19 September 2008 (UTC) |
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> I can do better. I can tell you about James Wilde, the author of the Time article, as he was an acquaintance of mine for a time. He was terribly biased against Yogi Bhajan, partly because YB would not give him an interview. Being a(n Irish) Catholic, James Wilde also had other issues which I won't trouble you with here. YB would not grant the interview because when he had first come to Los Angeles, he had gone to Time to have them do a story on his work and they had refused. Then, back in 1969, he had vowed never to do an interview with the magazine. The Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee of Amritsar, India, the chief administrative body of the Sikhs publicly opposed the article and supported Yogi Bhajan with telegrams and demands of a retraction. |
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NOTE: I'm moving this here from my user talk page. This is the correct place to discuss the matter.Courtesy ping @], @]. ] (]) 19:39, 28 March 2023 (UTC) |
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I lived through this period and witnessed the culture shift and all the other things described. "Objective documentation" for a narrative like this is difficult because mainstream news sources largely ignored it. Scholars are only coming to it lately and with various degrees of insight. As a university-educated veteran of the period, I re-wrote the article in response to a request a few months ago when it was a very little article indeed. (Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa) |
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: Dear Netherzone - Thank you for your concern. It is fine in principle to speak of "Neutral Point of View" but when that translates as indifference to or sheer ignorance of a subject, it becomes problematic. I made the recent edits to the Yogi Bhajan article because there were numerous citations based on a flawed report, An Olive Branch Report (ref: https://fairinvestigation.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/The-Thompson-Report.pdf). |
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==Immigration to Canada== |
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: My impression is that these citations have endured for so long in the article because of a combinations of: 1) readers being indifferent to the facts of the matter, 2) readers being ignorant of the facts of the matter, or 3) readers - and contributors - being biased against the subject of the article. |
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''In New Delhi, Harbhajan Singh was faced with a stark choice: to serve his government by joining the ]'s psychic research program in ] or leave the country''. |
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: I made the edits in good conscience because I like Misplaced Pages and wish it to be a truthful resource so far as possible. If you and horse eye prefer the article to persist in its perverted form, that will be your karma, though I hope you don't. Either way, I wish you the very best! ] (]) 17:11, 28 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::Hello and thank you for your message, @]. Please do take a moment to read ]. No one is saying that the report you speak of cannot be included if it is published in a reliable source. All points of view that cover the matter should be represented as they are in the reliable sources to achieve balance in encyclopedia articles. |
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::Just so you know, I did not touch any of your edits in the article, which you can see if you click on article history. I simply informed you on your talk page that you have a conflict of interest ] and that may influence your ability to maintain a fully neutral perspective, and that you should not be editing the article directly as per our guidelines. I too wish you the very best! ] (]) 19:35, 28 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::I was alarmed at first to see the edits on the article as it appeared the abuse allegations and the coverage of that had been removed. Now I see it just has been buried. I still think this create a more positive impression of the man and his actions. Obviously the Bhajan cult which is quite wealthy will continue their campaign to try to prevent others from learning about the allegations and the report. Now the hardliners who deny the abuse have taken over his empire I am sure they will try to scrub as many references as they can to the allegations and the AOB report which concluded based on the numbers that came forward that the allegations are on balance most likely true. Given he was already dead that is about as far as one can take it. |
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:::this article still contains a large amount of biased information including his biography etc etc. I guess I will just need to trust that as you have more skilled wiki editors will come along and address these flaws. As I am biased in wanting to expose this cult and the damage Bhajan and his loyalists did to so many people I obviously would not help the situation if I again re-edit and revise. I am thankful that Chaswick Chap (sp) came along and prevented the constant removal of all negative material on Bhajan and put the info at the top that at least alert readers that this is a heavily biased view of Bhajan. Thanks for your work ] (]) 05:48, 5 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::::Chiswick Chap is the correct name of the editor that helped me challenge the bias using the proper procedure ] (]) 05:50, 5 October 2023 (UTC) |
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== Burying of sexual assault allegations == |
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WTF? Citation? |
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Presently, the sexual assault allegations are buried in the "Biography" section. However, given that these allegations largely surfaced (long) after Yogi Bhajan's death, it doesn't make sense to include this in the biography section. Furthermore, burying it there serves to produce an article structure that fails to reproduce the actual amount of emphasis and coverage of the sexual assault allegations by recent, reliable sources in relation to other facts about Yogi Bhajan, in violation of ], and in particular, ]. |
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''The Canadian High Commissioner, James George facilitated his immigration to ] in 1968.'' |
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Even "Obituaries and memorials" gets its own top level section, when anyone actually looking at the up-to-date reliable sources covering this individual could very quickly see that far more ink is split covering the (alleged) sexual assaults than "obituaries and memorials" to Yogi Bhajan. |
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Personally, or this just a hyped description of routine procedure? (just as the Home Secretary nominally facilitates immigration to Britain as head of the Home Office that deals with applications). ] (]) 10:11, 18 September 2008 (UTC) |
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The fact is that the sexual assault allegations are the single largest topic covered by '''every single''' reliable source about Yogi Bhajan in the last several years. (The fact that such a topic was poorly covered, or not at all, prior to circa 2019 is only because such allegations only surfaced (publicly, anyways) beginning in that year. Misplaced Pages articles are living entities, and ] does not mean that we bury coverage simply because the coverage was of events not generally known until recently.) |
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Greetings. I wrote the article and happen to be the best authority on the life of Yogi Bhajan, as I am currently writing his biography. I have personally spoken with the former High Commissioner and found that he held Yogi Bhajan in high regard. His letter of reference recommending Yogi Bhajan as a yoga teacher, written in 1968, is a matter of the public record. |
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This article has suffered from continuous NPOV problems throughout its existence, as evinced up and down this talk page, due to tendentious editing by individuals closely affiliated with Yogi Bhajan's organization. We should strive to correct these issues, and this is a good starting point. ] (]) 00:36, 26 February 2024 (UTC) |
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As for the Tashkent reference, these are Yogi Bhajan's own words. There is not other evidence to support or refute it. As it basically coheres with the rest of his life, it is entered as a matter of fact. We do know that Yogi Bhajan disliked the Soviet system and their policies toward Afghanistan and, later on, the KGB's involvement in the Indian central government's oppression of the Sikhs. (Guru Fatha Singh Khalsa) |
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Presently, the sexual assault allegations are buried in the "Biography" section. However, given that these allegations largely surfaced (long) after Yogi Bhajan's death, it doesn't make sense to include this in the biography section. Furthermore, burying it there serves to produce an article structure that fails to reproduce the actual amount of emphasis and coverage of the sexual assault allegations by recent, reliable sources in relation to other facts about Yogi Bhajan, in violation of WP:NPOV, and in particular, WP:DUE.
Even "Obituaries and memorials" gets its own top level section, when anyone actually looking at the up-to-date reliable sources covering this individual could very quickly see that far more ink is split covering the (alleged) sexual assaults than "obituaries and memorials" to Yogi Bhajan.
The fact is that the sexual assault allegations are the single largest topic covered by every single reliable source about Yogi Bhajan in the last several years. (The fact that such a topic was poorly covered, or not at all, prior to circa 2019 is only because such allegations only surfaced (publicly, anyways) beginning in that year. Misplaced Pages articles are living entities, and WP:NPOV does not mean that we bury coverage simply because the coverage was of events not generally known until recently.)
This article has suffered from continuous NPOV problems throughout its existence, as evinced up and down this talk page, due to tendentious editing by individuals closely affiliated with Yogi Bhajan's organization. We should strive to correct these issues, and this is a good starting point. Brusquedandelion (talk) 00:36, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
