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Revision as of 19:37, 8 November 2008 editGloss (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers31,403 edits →Billy Graham (wrestler) -> Eldridge Coleman: don't use offensive words, knock it off← Previous edit Latest revision as of 15:06, 7 January 2025 edit undoMann Mann (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Page movers, File movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers30,263 edits →Naomi and WWE Women's Tag Team Championship: Reply 
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==Style guide change: first and last champions==
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| result = Consensus to include inaugural and final champions in C&A. The consensus for including final champions was weaker, however, so there is scope for the conversation to continue around that specifically. — ''']''' <sup>''(])''</sup> 09:20, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
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Hello. The Style Guide, Championships and accomplishments (]) states that "Other notes (such as oldest, youngest, first, last, only, etc.) are only covered in the relevant prose section and are not listed in this section". However, despite I have tried to delete the first or last champions, IPs and users keep including over and over, most recently . I propose to change the style guide, so we can include inaugural and final champions to the C&A. I mean, it's like a lost battle, fighting against the elements. --] (]) 17:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)


:So we change our guidelines just because some users don't read them?! Why you don't message them? You can request page protection or report them to related boards. If those users want to change MOS, then they should participate in the related discussion. And forget IP-users. Many of them are wrestling fans who view WP as a blog/database for submitting fancruft materials. --] (]) 20:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
== ] ==
::I don't see the change as a harmful. It's a small change. --] (]) 12:01, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

:::It is not a big deal for me. In the end, we follow general WP guidelines and WP:PW consensus. So if being the first/last champion is notable or something special and we get a consensus for it, then I'm OK with it. My point is we should not feed IP-users and registered users who always violate basic MOS guidelines. --] (]) 16:04, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
Someone created an article about them. Is it notable at this moment?--]] 21:09, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
::::I do not have a problem with the proposal, as long as first and last champions are the only ones noted in the C&A (not youngest, oldest, heaviest, etc.). Being the first/last champion is somewhat noteworthy, but the others border on trivia.
:Wow, that needs a lot of clean up. I think they've been around for a while now and don't look to be going anywhere, have been big in the tag team division, have 2 reigns as a team and 3 for Cody. I think they're notable enough for an article, but it needs a lot of clean up. Cheers, '''''<font color="darkblue">]</font><font color="lightblue">]</font>''''' 21:11, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
::::Does anybody know if it was ever customary to note inaugural/final? I can always remember seeing them as long as I have been reading Misplaced Pages, but it has been against the styles guide as long as I have been editing (nearly 15 years). It seems like one of those things that used to be permissible and users refused to give it up after it fell out of favor.] (]) 08:03, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
::I don't know if 4 months is notable, see what happened with Cody and Holly? No article for them despite a WTT title reign. I say redirect or AfD.--''']<sub>]</sub>]''' 21:30, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::To be honest, I feel like the ]. Some users included it into the style guide long time ago and we follow it without asking. --] (]) 08:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Hmm. You make a good point. Maybe it should redirect to Cody Rhodes for the moment, and we'll see whether the whole Orton stable angle gets done. I think if Orton were to ever lead a stable of these guys, it would be notable enough. Cheers, '''''<font color="darkblue">]</font><font color="lightblue">]</font>''''' 21:33, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
::::Yeah because they just formed in June, and both are rookie wrestlers even though getting a push, but four months together isn't notable, while Cody and Holly were about over half a year together and they didn't warrant an article despite their tag title reign.--''']<sub>]</sub>]''' 21:34, 30 October 2008 (UTC) ::::::@] I honestly never really understood why it was against the SG to notate the first and last champion in the C&A section, which is why I never removed it if I saw it on an article. It's a pretty notable thing. ] ] 01:02, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
I've been starting to make an article for them in my sandbox ] .] (]) 17:13, 1 November 2008 (UTC) Maybe explicitly allow inaugural and final champions in championship sections in the MOS? I personally think its notable information; if the project isn't opposed and in favor, let's do it. ] (]) 23:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
:I did object to an article of theirs before but I'm starting to think they're getting to the level of notoriety where they could justify an article. Being as Holly&Cody didn't have an article, maybe their should be a Formation/Background section which explains how Cody was a face under the tutorship of Holly, they won the titles on Raw XV and then go on to explain about the current team. They've feuded with Cryme Tyme, Kofi&Punk and are engaged in this bizarre storyline with Randy Orton and were involved in the WHC dispute at Unforgiven. I think that's enough to get them a page considering it doesn't look as if they'll be imploding any time soon. ] (]) 14:44, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
]?] (]) 15:19, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
::Much better, although I think there might be a bit of overdetail there, like listing all of the matches and rematches they've had, rather than just the important ones (PPVs and title-related matches, and probably the match on SmackDown as it was against other champions). Also it'd probably be prudent to point out Ted DiBiase was debuting when he made his first promo and that the Championship win was his first match in the company. ] (]) 18:15, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm working on a ] article on my sandbox, it's under work since I've not inserted references yet and I have not uploaded a photo of them, but other than that I think it's pretty good.--] (]) 21:01, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
:The main problems you have in the article is it talks about the history of Rhodes and Holly which isn't need, it isn't cut into subsections, and it isn't out of universe.--]] 21:15, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
::Why are two people working on the same article in their sandboxes? Seems a little pointless. Could the two of you collabprate or something? ♥]♥]♥]♥ 21:27, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

== Image question ==

What does everyone think of this image? I don't think it is legit, it looks like a TNA Wrestling.com picture.--]] 23:42, 30 October 2008 (UTC) ]
:It's from ], it's okay.--''']<sub>]</sub>]''' 23:43, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
::That still doesn't mean it is legit. Look at it, the person would have to be inside the ring or standing next to it to get a picture that good.--]] 23:49, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Well maybe the person works for TNA or was able to get an upclose shot, looking at the owner of the images, he owns some of the rights to it and he has other images from far away places like the rafters, to me they seem legit, if not Flickr would have removed them.--''']<sub>]</sub>]''' 23:57, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
::::That appears to be a pro-shot. No fan could get that close. If it was a professional, that means it was most likely a TNA employee, so it can be assumed the copyright on the photograph extends to TNA, not the photographer. Also, Flickr can't police each and every file that gets uploaded. I'm sure their priorities are well beyond monitoring pro-wrestling photos. '''<span style="border: 2px Yellow solid;background:#000000;font-family:futana;">&nbsp;] ]&nbsp;</span>''' 04:24, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

A look of pretty much confirms that this pic was taken from that site. It's not just that either. originated from . It's just a fan uploading some of his favorite photos. But the licenses posted aren't valid. ] (]) 18:33, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

So when are this, and all his other images, being removed? ] (]) 20:44, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

== ] ==

I've had the article fully protected due to it's edit warring. It needs some consensus reached and discussions discussed. Please head over to the talk page to help address and possible concerns brought up. <span style="font-family: tahoma">'''] (])'''</span> 02:19, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

:I've left one of the "problems" a message on his talk page, about some stuff he can look at. <font face=tahoma>]]</font> 18:22, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
If you check the List of World Wrestling Entertainment employees page right now it looks bad --] (]) 12:55, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== ClueBot aka ] ==

Cobi has created ] per my request on his talk page. He runs the page when asked, so if anyone remembers, try to have this list run before the newsletter is run every other week. He said it takes 2-5 minutes to run, so every other week shouldn't be a problem.

The bot checks users contributions and has different codes for different states of activity. It also has a code for marking users "with less than 25 edits." <span style="font-family: tahoma">'''] (])'''</span> 12:04, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
:Not to be rude, but why? What does that accomplish? ♥]♥]♥]♥ 18:44, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
::Nothing, what's the harm? {{small|This project is very hostile.}} ''Backs away''. <font face="Verdana">]</font> 19:15, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
:::Hiliarious. I meant who cares if the user is active or not? I plan to be inactive for a while in a few months, and I've got to say if I return after a few months, and find I've been removed from the members list because I wasn't active ebough, I wouldn't want to return. It's stupid. Who are we to declare that people get taken off the members list because they're inactive for a while. It's bullshit. ♥]♥]♥]♥ 21:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
::::Accuracy. <font face="Verdana">]</font> 21:37, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::I stand by my previous statement. ♥]♥]♥]♥ 21:39, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
::::::Wow, no need to get so worked up over something so minor. It's just a member's list. In this project, people fight and bicker over the stupidest non-mainspace related things, it's counter-productive. -- ]<sup>]</sup> 21:44, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Trust me Scorpion, I'm not worked up. Nobody on this project has seen me worked up, but I'm tired of the stupidity of this whole thing. ♥]♥]♥]♥ 21:50, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
::::::::It's really no big deal, it's a member's list, only reason we really have it is for newsletter delivery. Why deliver a newsletter to a dead talk page of an inactive person...? <font face="Verdana">]</font> 22:02, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::In case they come back and want to do what been going on in the project, without having to read through the archives? Besides, whats the harm in it? ♥]♥]♥]♥ 22:24, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::What's the harm without it? It also is less work for the bot to have to do. <font face="Verdana">]</font> 22:26, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::If you remember Matt, the bot delivers the newsletter to people in ], not just the people on the members list, so unless you intend to go around removing the userbox from people's userpages, it isn't less work for the bot to do, and it is just a waste of time/space/whatever. Like I said, it's pointless. ♥]♥]♥]♥ 17:11, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
can i just point out that even when i may not actually edit pages I'm always watching them for reverts and such, so please, should I be removed can you add me back ] (]) 21:43, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
:The list doesn't automatically remove people. I never said we will remove somebody immediately. <font face="Verdana">]</font> 21:44, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
::in which case I second the question, what's the point? ] (]) 21:47, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
:::(edit-conflict) No, but people have been removed from the list. And it's pointless. And having a list that says "this person is active" or "this person isn't active" does absolutely nothing for the project, and it completely pointless. BTW, Skitzo, if you were removed, just add yourself back in again. ♥]♥]♥]♥ 21:50, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
::I'm not a major article contributor. I mainly contribute ideas and suggestions on discussion pages and revert what I can during work hours between calls. So, is a project member now defined by how many article edits they make? '''<span style="border: 2px Yellow solid;background:#000000;font-family:futana;">&nbsp;] ]&nbsp;</span>''' 17:17, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

== Scissors Kick ==

Do you think it's a good idea to this
*'''''Scissors Kick''''' (] to the back of the head of a bent down opponent)
If you think it's a good idea, say on this page--] (]) 13:50, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
:It doesn't read that well. I remember on ]'s article there was an explanation on the Scissors kick.--''']<sub>]</sub>]''' 14:16, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

== New member interested in British Pro Wrestling ==

Hi. I am a new project member (joined today, 2nd November) who is interested in maintaining and assisting to expand articles on British Pro Wrestlers such as Big Daddy, Malcolm Kirk, Les Kellett, Mick McManus and also trying to get some articles sorted about the notable faces, referee Max Ward for example. If anyone else on this project has knowledge of the British Pro Wrestling circuit, especially the stuff that was televised through ], please get in touch on my talk page or through here. I would be interested to collaborate with you. ] (]) 14:42, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
:I'd love to help you, I've tried before but have found it very hard mostly because there aren't really any sources available on this, let alone reliable ones. I've done a few things with modern female wrestlers but then RQW revamped their whole website and deleted all their old news archives and results page. It seems like a lost cause I'm afraid. ] (]) 23:55, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
::Well I managed to find a decent image of King Kong Kirk to add to his article, and also corrected the infobox to show where he died. I watch a lot of World of Sport here on ], so I am learning a fair bit about some of the wrestlers. I am pretty sure we can dredge something up from somewhere which will give us something to go on. Its not over till ] (]) 22:36, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

== Pictures ==

has great pictures, is anybody interested in contacting the uploader about using them on Misplaced Pages? <font face="Verdana">]</font> 00:08, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
:Wow, those are some awesome pictures. We could definitely use them on a lot of articles. I'd send an email but I'm not a Flickr user. Anyone on the project who is, should definitely get an email off to this guy. Cheers, '''''<font color="darkblue">]</font><font color="lightblue">]</font>''''' 00:20, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Ugh. Most of those photos are mine. Thiefs. What can I say? My work is just that good. My gallery is . I'll see if I can start uploading images again soon. ] (]) 18:21, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
:Man, how could you not have uploaded these sooner? They're great. Don't forget to add the category for them whoever uploads/transfers/whatever you do to them from Flickr. ] (]) 23:33, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

== Beer Money, Inc and Main Event Mafia ==

Someone has created ]. I find the team notable. If someone sources the article it will reach notability as per the admin that deleted it last. ] has gone crazy. Either we get it fully protected or delete it. Because I had it redirected but people kept removing the redirect. Then I quit placing it back in and fixed and sourced the article, and now they are removing the out of universe. I'm not sure what to do anymore and I'm violating the 3RR and I don't want to do that to keep it up to date with the rules. Plus people keep placing in that Sting is a two time TNA World Champion when he is but only once while being in the team.—]] 23:42, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

:Never mind Beer Money, it was deleted.—]] 00:09, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
::I redirected MEM to Kurt Angle, the stable does not meet ]. I also left a hidden note, if it is recreated once more, I will request full-protection. Beer Money seems more notable, as long as it is fully sourced and accurate.--''']<sub>]</sub>]''' 00:11, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

:::Good luck, before Raw goes off tonight someone is going to remove the redirect. Protection will probably get declined since there is no recent activity. Beer Money is being worked on in a sandbox by me as well as Main Event Mafia which will eventually gain notability. I just need to source Beer Money Inc.—]] 00:18, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

== Delete this image, I don't know how. ==

] is copywritten though it is from Commons. The link to the photo is on the image page. It is from TNA, need I say more.--]] 20:28, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
:The image has to be deleted over there. --<span style="font-family:Times New Roman">] </span><span style="font-family:Times New Roman">]</span> <span style="font-family:Times New Roman">]</span> 22:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
::You are going to have to propose it's deletion at Commons.--''']<sub>]</sub>]''' 22:53, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Yeah we can't do anything ] (]) 16:03, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

== ] ==

Has been nominated for removal as a Featured List. Please comment ]. -- ]<sup>]</sup> 00:52, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

== Waitling list? ==

I know someone (SRX?) proposed we get rid of the waiting list, and I agreed at the time, but nobody else really said anything. The list was useful at first, because people would copyedit and give suggestions to articles on the list, so they were as good as possible ''before'' being nominated at GAN. It helped eliminate problems such as with ], where the GAN reviewer claimed the article wasn't ready. After it had been picked for review, I copyedited the article, and SRX also pointed out some problems. Clearly, neither of us used the waiting list that may have been beneficial in this case, and if we had, the article may have already been passed. I know a lot of us have much busier schedules now-a-days, so I am wondering....is the waiting list worth keeping around if people re-commit to using it properly? If not, should we remove it and allow people to nominate freely? ]] 01:42, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

*'''Remove'''. <font face="Verdana">]</font> 01:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
*'''Remove''' - I say remove because the project hast lost a lot of activity and are not taking advantage of the waiting list, plus other projects don't have this. If a user wants a review, they should take the liberty to ask or they should just nominate it. Btw, it was me :)--''']<sub>]</sub>]''' 01:59, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
*'''Remove''' - The list of GAs is quite long anyway, and we may as well put the articles on the GA page and let them wait there so that other sports related articles don't get ahead of us. It's not like we can't just ask someone in the project to review an article if it's needed, and unless the article is very poor I'm sure the GA reviewer would leave an adequate review to get it to GA. Cheers, '''''<font color="darkblue">]</font><font color="lightblue">]</font>''''' 02:09, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I've removed it for now unless there are any serious objections. Feel free to nominate to your heart's content. ]] 19:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
:"Removing watchlist" - lol <font face="Verdana">]</font> 20:02, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

== ] -> ] ==

Quantifier. Don't get pissed off, I'm not the one who deleted ANC. ] (]) 22:28, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think this would be beneficial. Per your recent comment in a discussion about an article move ("Why? He's not known as Shayne Bower... at all."), Billy Graham has never and will never be known as Eldridge Coleman. ] (]) 00:03, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
] ] (]) 00:31, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
:Yes, that page does support my statement. Can I assume, then, that you have changed your mind about the move request? ] (]) 03:09, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::I support it per other moves that occurred like this, such as Sting (wrester) to Steve Bor? (Bor-something) to remove the quantifier, and from Sabu (wrestler) to Terry Brunk.--''']<sub>]</sub>]''' 03:18, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Actually it says avoid using this type of disambiguation where possible. Plus we've done it to many articles now like ], ], and ]. ] (]) 10:52, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
:Would a move to "Superstar" Billy Graham not be more obvious? ] (]) 11:10, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
I was thinking of that at first , but ] ] (]) 18:09, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::This is just ]. It was moved to its current page (from "Superstar" Billy Graham) through consensus achieved through a discussion of project members. Your idea ("Eldridge Coleman") does not "apply more 'naturally'", as nobody knows who Eldridge Coleman is (unlike the "meh" examples you gave above...the phrasing of which, I must say, does not help your case). Trying to override a consensus by citing a policy that does not apply is pointless. It's not broken, so don't try to fix it. ] (]) 19:26, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

== DYK suggestion for ]? ==

I just expanded this article and would like to submit something for ]. I can't really think of anything from the article to submit, though. Does anyone have a suggestion? Thanks, ] (]) 23:58, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
:What about something to the effect of: "... At the ''']''', for the first time, the winner of the Royal Rumble match was guaranteed a match for the ] at ], which subsequently became an annual tradition." ]] 00:02, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks. I've been staring at the article for a while now trying to think of something. That works well. ] (]) 00:04, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
: (edit conflict) or: "...at the ''']''' ] left the WWF after losing a loser leaves town match and did not return until 2001." ]] 00:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Actually the Loser Leaves Town match was the Raw after the RR.. ] (]) 00:33, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::We could also go with "...at the ''']''', ] made his debut in the WWF by eliminating ] from the Royal Rumble match." Cheers, '''''<font color="darkblue">]</font><font color="lightblue">]</font>''''' 03:20, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

==Hawkins & Ryder==
I have a really good photo of them as Hawkins and Ryder, but how do you upload it into the article again????, I also have pictures of the Boogeyman, Miz, and several more--] (]) 18:30, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
:Well, first you have to upload it to wikipedia. Use the "Upload file" link at the toolbox on the side of the page.
:<-----
:Then just follow the instructions. Btw, I take it these are photos you've taken yourself, not ]. ♥]♥]♥]♥ 19:13, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::If you've already done that, that to put it in the article it's <nowiki>]</nowiki> If you want to put it on a certain side, than add in either "left" or "right". ♥]♥]♥]♥ 19:33, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

== Gail Kim ==

Everyone watch ]. The rumors are going around she has signed with WWE but there is no source for this, at least a reliable one.--]] 22:31, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
:'''Watched'''.--''']<sub>]</sub>]''' 22:40, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
::PWInsider reported it. That's reliable. ] (]) 01:28, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:::In your view it is, but on Wiki it's blacklisted. Why don't you try and actually change that..... ask round to try and make it "un" blacklisted? ] (]) 09:32, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


=== Vote: Inclusion of inaugural/final champion in Championships and accomplishments ===
== ] Sourcing ==
OK, let's reach a consensus before 2025. Vote: Support, Oppose, or Neutral.


*'''Neutral''' As I said in my above comment, I'm fine with community consensus. --] (]) 02:30, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
I wanted to make OTE 99 a FA, but since there aren't that many reliable sources to cite the results or episodes of Raw, I am requesting comments/help on this issue. Does anybody have a mag, newsletter, or book outlining the event itself?--''']<sub>]</sub>]''' 23:30, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Per above. --] (]) 21:45, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
:I know Mick Foley's ''Foley is Good'' book has a chapter about Owen Hart's accident, and I'm sure one of Bret Hart's DVDs or books would have a good deal of info on it. If you don't have a copy of Foley is Good I'd be more than happy to contribute that source. As for the event itself, that'd be hard to track down. Maybe an old DVD or VHS tape off of Amazon or Ebay? Amazon has a used VHS tape, but it's like 35 bucks. Ebay might have a deal. Cheers, '''''<font color="darkblue">]</font><font color="lightblue">]</font>''''' 00:15, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
*'''Neutral''' as well.] (]) 10:42, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
:Well, could you tell me what Foley says in his book about the incident?--''']<sub>]</sub>]''' 00:21, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support''' I think it's important to note a inaugral/final champion but I wouldn't see the point in anything beyond that. ] (]) 13:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
::Try . It'll let you read the pages containing those words. It really is a big help. I've used it for book sources on numerous articles. ]] 00:51, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support''' --] ] 13:46, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Could you try a wayback machine website like archive.org? I don't know if WWF had a website back then but if they did they'd probably put something up. <font face= xirod>] ]] 12:07, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - Being the first and last holder of a championship is noteworthy. ] (]) 15:02, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
*'''Support''' inaugural champion. That's undoubtedly noteworthy. Neutral on final. Sometimes being a final champion is a noted and touted event. Sometimes the person just happens to hold a title when a foundering promotion finally closes. The latter isn't really notable, so I can take or leave it. But inaugural is absolutely deserving of mention. ] (]) 16:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - it can be mentioned in the prose. It's not an achievement. '''] <sup>(] • ])</sup>''' 17:11, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - Seems slightly noteworthy. ] (]) 17:47, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
*'''Support''' ] (]) 19:05, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
*'''Guarded support''' - This may be abused by users seeking to apply it to a non notable title, of which there are a number in the list of notable wrestlers. Using this to keep a title on a list could be problematic. I don't have an issue with it with notable titles (eg Pat Patterson IC Title, Seth Rollins NXT title etc) but we need to be very careful. The same applies to the last champion. ] (]) 19:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - A mention in prose is enough and I also think this might overload the C&A section a little bit. For example, when it comes to tag team titles, should you also indicate with which partner(s) the champion was inaugural/final champ? ''''']''''' (]) 20:14, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
** I was leaning towards '''support''', but you make a very valid point that I had not considered. This could get messy.] (]) 09:03, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - Don't know if my opinion will matter here, but i really think that the inaugural champ should always be mentioned, but i'm not sure about the final, anyway, i will be okay with what the community decides, but the inaugural it's a yes for me. ] (])
{{abot}}


== Questionable deletion ==
== ] ==


I seem to recall a discussion some years ago about giving extra weight to a biography if it's of a defining figure of professional wrestling in a particular country. If that's still the case, I question the recent deletion of ]. It appears to have been done unilaterally, without benefit of a discussion or even the courtesy of a notice to this project or other relevant projects. ]/]/] 15:52, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Holy crap, this page was just unprotected and reformatted, and it's attracting vandals already. Please help out on the talk page so we can reach consensus and warn users who go against it (so we have a valid consensus to work off of). I just need some help over there. <font face="Verdana">]</font> 00:56, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


:That is how CSD works, I'm afraid. I'm not sure the article was just advertising, but it was definitely quite promotional in tone. You can contact the deleting admin for a ] if you want a copy to make a good version of the article (most of it was unsourced). '''] <sup>(] • ])</sup>''' 16:18, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
We need to establish the consensus here. That talk page is filling up with IP's and unexperienced editors trying to get the old page back and establish consensus amongst themselves.


== Request for comment ==
Can we try to start off here by forming a consensus about adding championships to the notes section of the table? Many are adding them, and I've reverted them until we can reach a consensus about it. <font face="Verdana">]</font> 13:20, 8 November 2008 (UTC)


Can I please have someone's input on ]? Thanks. ] (]) 23:53, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
== Some pics if you need em. ==


== Naomi and WWE Women's Tag Team Championship ==
http://community.naturalmotion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25368


I watched January 3, 2025 episode of ''SmackDown'' and during Naomi's entrance, she was introduced as WWE Women's Tag Team Champion. However, the official title history still lists Jade Cargill as the champion. Did WWE clarify the situation? Because A few days ago, several users tried to add Naomi as the champion, but there was no official confirmation/recognition by WWE. I saw a report by ''Fightful'' () and the situation has become confusing for me. I did not watch November and December 2024 episodes, so I don't know how Naomi is a champion on TV but not on the WWE website. --] (]) 16:55, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
(I'm wf104se) The guy went to a SD!/ECWWE show in france and got some good pics. as you can see, he gave me permission in post 6 to upload these here. Any of these we can use? <font face= xirod>] ]] 13:52, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
:If that is official the main WWE webiste should be updated soon so I would wait until it is mentioned there, assuming it hasn’t been updated already.--] (]) 00:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
::Well, they updated . Cargill is not champion anymore. --] (]) 15:06, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

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Style guide change: first and last champions

Consensus to include inaugural and final champions in C&A. The consensus for including final champions was weaker, however, so there is scope for the conversation to continue around that specifically. — Czello 09:20, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hello. The Style Guide, Championships and accomplishments (WP:PW/CHAMPION) states that "Other notes (such as oldest, youngest, first, last, only, etc.) are only covered in the relevant prose section and are not listed in this section". However, despite I have tried to delete the first or last champions, IPs and users keep including over and over, most recently . I propose to change the style guide, so we can include inaugural and final champions to the C&A. I mean, it's like a lost battle, fighting against the elements. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 17:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

So we change our guidelines just because some users don't read them?! Why you don't message them? You can request page protection or report them to related boards. If those users want to change MOS, then they should participate in the related discussion. And forget IP-users. Many of them are wrestling fans who view WP as a blog/database for submitting fancruft materials. --Mann Mann (talk) 20:04, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
I don't see the change as a harmful. It's a small change. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 12:01, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
It is not a big deal for me. In the end, we follow general WP guidelines and WP:PW consensus. So if being the first/last champion is notable or something special and we get a consensus for it, then I'm OK with it. My point is we should not feed IP-users and registered users who always violate basic MOS guidelines. --Mann Mann (talk) 16:04, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
I do not have a problem with the proposal, as long as first and last champions are the only ones noted in the C&A (not youngest, oldest, heaviest, etc.). Being the first/last champion is somewhat noteworthy, but the others border on trivia.
Does anybody know if it was ever customary to note inaugural/final? I can always remember seeing them as long as I have been reading Misplaced Pages, but it has been against the styles guide as long as I have been editing (nearly 15 years). It seems like one of those things that used to be permissible and users refused to give it up after it fell out of favor.LM2000 (talk) 08:03, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
To be honest, I feel like the five monkeys experiment. Some users included it into the style guide long time ago and we follow it without asking. --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 08:44, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
@HHH Pedrigree I honestly never really understood why it was against the SG to notate the first and last champion in the C&A section, which is why I never removed it if I saw it on an article. It's a pretty notable thing. JDC808 ♫ 01:02, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Maybe explicitly allow inaugural and final champions in championship sections in the MOS? I personally think its notable information; if the project isn't opposed and in favor, let's do it. DrewieStewie (talk) 23:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Vote: Inclusion of inaugural/final champion in Championships and accomplishments

OK, let's reach a consensus before 2025. Vote: Support, Oppose, or Neutral.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Questionable deletion

I seem to recall a discussion some years ago about giving extra weight to a biography if it's of a defining figure of professional wrestling in a particular country. If that's still the case, I question the recent deletion of Michael Okpala. It appears to have been done unilaterally, without benefit of a discussion or even the courtesy of a notice to this project or other relevant projects. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 15:52, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

That is how CSD works, I'm afraid. I'm not sure the article was just advertising, but it was definitely quite promotional in tone. You can contact the deleting admin for a WP:REFUND if you want a copy to make a good version of the article (most of it was unsourced). Lee Vilenski 16:18, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Request for comment

Can I please have someone's input on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Thanksgiving Eve Dynamite (2023)? Thanks. Lemonademan22 (talk) 23:53, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Naomi and WWE Women's Tag Team Championship

I watched January 3, 2025 episode of SmackDown and during Naomi's entrance, she was introduced as WWE Women's Tag Team Champion. However, the official title history still lists Jade Cargill as the champion. Did WWE clarify the situation? Because A few days ago, several users tried to add Naomi as the champion, but there was no official confirmation/recognition by WWE. I saw a report by Fightful (Naomi Officially Recognized As One-Half Of WWE Women's Tag Team Champions) and the situation has become confusing for me. I did not watch November and December 2024 episodes, so I don't know how Naomi is a champion on TV but not on the WWE website. --Mann Mann (talk) 16:55, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

If that is official the main WWE webiste should be updated soon so I would wait until it is mentioned there, assuming it hasn’t been updated already.--67.70.103.133 (talk) 00:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
Well, they updated it. Cargill is not champion anymore. --Mann Mann (talk) 15:06, 7 January 2025 (UTC)