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==PerspicazHistorian==
={{anchor|toptoc}}Edit this section for new requests=
{{hat|{{u|PerspicazHistorian}} is blocked indefinitely from mainspace. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 03:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC) }}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning PerspicazHistorian===
== Tag-teams ==
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PerspicazHistorian}}<p>{{ds/log|PerspicazHistorian}}</p>
Is it acceptable for editors to tag-team to get round 1RR, viz. Domer48 and Big Dunc? ], ], ] ] (]) 02:17, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
:Mooretwin, I have advised you several times to drop the tag team accusations, or if you absolutely had to bring them up yet again, do so in the context of the ongoing ArbCom case (with DIFFS that show that they're tag teaming you, not just that they both disagree with you). If you do this again, I will block you for personal attacks. ] (]) 02:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
::I thought this was the ongoing ArbCom case. This is where you directed me. I'm really confused now. ] (]) 02:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Ok, let me try again. See where I posted my evidence towards you? (http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Ireland_article_names/Evidence#Evidence_presented_by_SirFozzie) is the URL, is a direct link. That's the ArbCom case dealing with the Ireland naming dispute (and the conduct of the editors IN that naming dispute). I suggest you post the evidence there (in your own section). ] (]) 02:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
:::Additionally, SirFozzie was not the only person who pointed you to the relevant page during your latest dispute about capitalization of ], ] and others (see ], ] and ]): I did. ]&nbsp;] 08:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
::::I was pointed to the wrong page by both of you. Hence the confusion. Eventually Sir Fozzie directed me to the correct page. ] (]) 09:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
I'm coming in mostly cold on this one. As far as I can see from ],
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
: {{userlinks|Domer48}} is on a topic 1RR
: {{userlinks|Mooretwin}} is on a normal 1RR.


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
If so, they have both broken their existing editing restrictions and should be issued editing holidays.<br/>
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
On the 14th, Domer reverted Mooretwin on ] and ]; and on the 11th, Domer reverted Mooretwin a whole raft of articles.<br/>
# - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of ] (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
] blocked ] for '''a week''' at 14:11, 16 December 2008; this hasnt been logged on the RFAR log.<br/>
# - tag bombed the highly vetted ] article without any discussion or reason
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">] <sup>'''(])'''</sup></span> 03:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
# - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
:At the time of the block, I was aware of the article probation but not of any restrictions on the individual editors. I will make a note in the log. <font color="006622">]</font><sup><small><b>]</b></small></sup> 15:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
# - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting
# - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
# - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
# - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "{{tq|This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.}}"


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
I like to point out to ] I am not on any 1RR and that it the articles that are on 1RR. I have not breeched the 1RR. I've checked out the ] article and no there is no breech of 1RR. I have now checked my edits for the 11th, and again no breech of 1RR. Could ] possibly be mixing 1RR with 0RR? Thanks, --<font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 19:59, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
:Domer is no longer on any specific restrictions following a number of threads and actions, I will update the log momentarily.--] (]) 20:21, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
*Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
:Sorry Domer; I did know that this situation was more complex than the already complex log indicates, which is why I posted here and ''didnt'' act on it. ;-) <span style="font-variant:small-caps">] <sup>'''(])'''</sup></span> 22:56, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->


Thank you Tznkai for that, I hope that will clarify things for editors. --<font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 20:25, 18 December 2008 (UTC) I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


:While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to ]. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:Could someone please have a word with ], despite the above warning and a week block for edit warring and engaging in personal attacks, they insist on using their talk page now . They have made accusations against two admins, who have tried to reason with them, and have ignored all advice and warnings. From down on their talk page is a litany of abuse, blocks and warnings, a number of which they have removed. This report resulted in the one week block. The conduct has been raised on a current ArbCom case, and this case here at AE. All I want is the name calling to stop, and to get on with editing. I have in the recent past asked that ], not be blocked for the edit warring and breech of AE sanctions. I have asked and tried to be reasonable when asking them no to make accusations. I've placed warnings on their page, and it has been suggested that I go to AE , by an Admin who has bent over backwards to help. I really don't want to have to go there, and every one who know me knows why, so all I'm asking for is that someone have a word and try to reason with them, before their block expires. Thanks --<font face="Celtic">]<sub>'']''</sub></font> 21:28, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
::I'm one of the two admins who am probably too involved now to be a fair judge of what to do with Mooretwin, but let me say this. Mooretwin has racked up five or six edit-warring blocks in less then four months (First one was August 29th, latest one was the 16th of this month), and attacks other editors habitually. The last block was for edit warring personal attacks back on to multiple pages. This is his second one week block. At some point, we need to inform him he's on a LAST chance, and then lengthen the blocks if the behaviour doesn't improve. ] (]) 23:06, 18 December 2008 (UTC)


*PerspicazHistorian is still using sources (see ]) and wishing to move ] to ] which is a blatant POV. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 04:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
={{anchor|restoc}}Resolved=


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
==Fadix==
{{archive top}}
:{{userlinks|Fadix}}
:{{rfarlinks|Armenia-Azerbaijan}}
Please see , <span style="font-variant:small-caps">] <sup>'''(])'''</sup></span> 02:21, 18 December 2008 (UTC)


===Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
Also tackled at ] and ]. <span style="font-variant:small-caps">] <sup>'''(])'''</sup></span> 03:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by PerspicazHistorian ====
The editor apparently wants to get an indefinite block on the Fadix account. At this point I think we might as well do that and maybe run a checkuser to make sure no more socks are lurking around. ] (]) 04:24, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
*By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on ] Page.
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before ] told me about this: ].
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.<br>
*In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on ] by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to ] it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of ].<br>
*As a clarification to my edit on ], it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this . I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
:@], Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in ]. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! ] (]) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::Yes, I will commit to that. ] (]) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) </small>
:At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when ] was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. ] (]) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
*Hi @] , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
::''<small>P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards.</small>'' ] (]) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)<small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.] (]) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*1) I just asked an user @] if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
: Ban was extended by one year, so I do not think there is anything else to be done here. ] <small>]</small> 04:25, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:: Well we could just make him happy and make it indefinite. If he wants to come back in a year we can then just unblock him. ] (]) 04:53, 18 December 2008 (UTC) :2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! ] (]) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::even @] is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. ] (]) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::: Enough is enough. Indeffed. --]<sup><small>]</small></sup> 07:23, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:::as mentioned by @] before, <sub>Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here</sub>. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. ] (]) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
{{archive bottom}}
::::@] I once filed a to find it @] is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. ] (]) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) <small>moving to correct section ] (]) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*Hi @] @], In my defense I just want to say that
== Need a formal warning for an IP editor ==
:1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on ] page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
{{archive top}}
:2) My main interest in editing is ] and ] topics.
Note: ] is under ] because it's a pathological science or fringe science that has been given as an example of pseudoscience, (although it was rejected to label it as pseudoscience on ].)
:3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
:Please do not block me. ] (]) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*@] I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @] I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*@]@] I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*@] This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*:@] I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned ]. ] (]) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*::@]@] I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
*::The article ] doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about ], I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! ] (]) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::@] You mean to say, "<sub>The ''prasada'' is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, ] and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the ]. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. "</sub> is not copy pasted by website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? ] (]) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::@ ] I just asked others to share their opinion in the enforcement. With all due respect, I don't think its wrong in any sense. ] (]) 15:13, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::::To all the admins involved here,
*:::::* I agree to keep learning and apologize if my previous edits/replies have annoyed the admins.
*:::::* I have not edit warred since a month and please see it as my willingness to keep learning and getting better.
*:::::*Please give me a chance, I understand concern of you all and respect your opinion in the matter. But please don't block me from editing from main article space. I promise that I will abide by all the rules and will learn from other editors.
*:::::] (]) 15:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by LukeEmily====
This should be quite uncontroversial. An editor with a big ] comes to the talk page of an article, claims that there is a skeptic conspiracy to make up nonsense and put it in the article to replace real sources, engages into lenghthy OR discussions, claims that all papers showing negative results are faked by their authors, that sources can be falsified by examining ''leaked raw data'', shows his self-published papers that he co-authored as proof against prestigious journals, forces other editors to engage into more OR to disproof his misrepresentations, calls wikipedia editors "a bunch of ignorant crackpots", insists that wikipedia sucks (but keeps commenting on the talk page with no intention of improving the articles, a violation of ]), promotes his own website as the alpha an omega of cold fusion sourcing, uses the page as a ], claims that " is mainly a display of ignorance, not bias.", clutters the talk page history with useless OR (42 of last 100 edits as of 01:52, 10 December 2008, counting also Sinebot because he doesn't see the point of signing even after being asked nicely by several editors), when menaced with arbitration discrectionary sanctions he replies "Go ahead! Do your worst!" and claims that he is "not planning to edit this or any other article. I wouldn't touch a Misplaced Pages article with the fag end of a barge poll, nor would any scientist I know" and has continued his behaviour since then (6 days ago).
PerspicazHistorian also violated ] by engaging in an edit war with {{u|Ratnahastin}} who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.] (])


====Statement by Doug Weller====
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and ]'s comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving ] to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. ] (]) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. ] ] 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)


:::I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... ] ] 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Pvkeller explains the problem perfectly:
{{quote|1=:Putting Wiki policy to one side, it is not so much citing sources of dubious probity that seems a problem to me. It is more a combination of tactics:
:1) Insisting that anyone who has not read '''all''' your source must accept that your sources demonstrate whatever you say they do;
:2) Claiming your sources say or prove more than they do. On several occassion I have spent hours investigating your citations only to find they proved far less than you claimed;
:3) Dismissing all sources that do not support your POV, and attacking those who cite those sources;
:4) Arguing that every instance of treating your sources seriously is an avowal of those source or an agreement with their conclusions, even if the instance does not result in publication or funding; and
:5) Arguing that every instance of not treating your sources seriously is a display of unfair bias.


====Statement by Toddy1====
:I would like to see you try harder to be pursuasive without browbeating.}}
This is another editor who appears to have pro-] (RSS) and pro-] (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-] views, but allowed ] to say whatever they liked.


A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.
Since wikipedia is not he place for massive COI'd OR, I would thank an uninvolved admin to give him a formal warning ({{tl|Pseudoscience_enforcement}} will do) so he can be sanctioned if he keeps on with his behaviour. (since it's a dynamic IP, it should be given on ]?


If we want to talk about ] when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .
Lists of diffs (collapsed to avoid cluttering this page):


A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.
{{Collapsed top|1=warning about arbitration, his replies}}
On 4 December 2008 I warned Jed about using unreliable sources to falsify reliable sources, and engagin on OR the talk page, finishing with this: "Jed, either you stop filling the page with WP:OR or I'll start asking admins to bring ] down on you."


I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">--] ]</span> 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by Capitals00====
His answer was: "Go ahead! Do your worst. You skeptics have done that to me before. I couldn't care less. I am not planning to edit this or any other article. I wouldn't touch a Misplaced Pages article with the fag end of a barge poll, nor would any scientist I know." .
I find the comment from {{U|Toddy1}} to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "{{tq|Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India}}"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like ].


You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user ]. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "{{tq|seek to censor}}" this editor due to his "{{tq| pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views}}". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure ] is coming for you. ] (]) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)


====Statement by Vanamonde93====
] explains perfectly the problem, so I'll copy/paste it here:
{{U|Toddy1}}: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.
:Putting Wiki policy to one side, it is not so much citing sources of dubious probity that seems a problem to me. It is more a combination of tactics:
:1) Insisting that anyone who has not read '''all''' your source must accept that your sources demonstrate whatever you say they do;
:2) Claiming your sources say or prove more than they do. On several occassion I have spent hours investigating your citations only to find they proved far less than you claimed;
:3) Dismissing all sources that do not support your POV, and attacking those who cite those sources;
:4) Arguing that every instance of treating your sources seriously is an avowal of those source or an agreement with their conclusions, even if the instance does not result in publication or funding; and
:5) Arguing that every instance of not treating your sources seriously is a display of unfair bias.


That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. ], entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ({{tq|"first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya"}}, and poor sources (like , and , whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. ], also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.
:I would like to see you try harder to be pursuasive without browbeating.


I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. {{U|Bishonen}} If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. ] (]) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
Jed's answer was yet more OR and promotion of his own site " I have 3,500 papers. These papers and books constitute 99% of everything published on the subject, in English", insisting that NPOV is imposible because science is based on facts ""POV" means point of view, or opinion. Science is based on facts and laws, not points of view.", and insisting that he has the ] "There are no other sources. (...) is mainly a display of ignorance, not bias."
{{Collapsed bottom}}


:Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . ] (]) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
{{Collapsed top|1=Examples of OR}}
using a list of 200 papers (primary sources) as proof that fusion happened, and saying that a laboratory is not prestigious or journal is not high-profile are "judgement calls" . This simply denies the capability of editors to reject fringe sources.


====Statement by UtherSRG====
Lots of OR about how a certain experiment demonstrated something or not, and suggesting that a paper on a low-impact journal and a video of a working motor are a reliable source
I've mostly dealt with PH around ]. They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the ] when they can demonstrate they no longer have ] issues. - ] ] 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)


:Based on , I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - ] ] 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
In reply to " unreliable sources reliable sources should not be taken into account or had fake data" he cites a paper on a fringe journal to say "You can see at glance that the data is fake! Part of the graph is replaced with crudely fabricated, hand-drawn data." and continues "You can tell even more clearly because one of the researchers accidentally leaked the original data, which shows excess heat in the part that was replaced with hand-drawn dots" and suggests to read the "official MIT hearing" (again, reliance on primary sources)
::They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in ] territory here. - ] ] 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::: is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - ] ] 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)


===Result concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
"I find it very persuasive when a cell with ~20 ml of water and a few grams of palladium produces megajoules of energy with no input power and no chemical changes, and it produces helium. I think that is proof that a nuclear reaction is occurring. However, you may not find that persuasive, so perhaps you should look at some other aspect of cold fusion, such as tritium production or host-metal transmutations."
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''


{{u|PerspicazHistorian}}, can you explain your understanding of ] and the ] rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring ''even if they aren't breaking 3RR''. ] (]) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
"Such claims cannot be put to the test by examining colorimetric data, whereas anyone who knows a little chemistry will find glaring errors in papers by Morrison or Hoffman.)"
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
:@], that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is ''the first time'' someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
:<small>Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is ]; in their ] NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here.</small> ] (]) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? ] (]) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@], have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. ] (]) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. ] (]) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::@], like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God |url=https://www.ganeshaspeaks.com/predictions/astrology/prasad-food-for-god/ |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=GaneshaSpeaks |language=en-GB}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=What Is Prashad |url=https://www.swaminarayan.faith/articles/what-is-prashad |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj |language=en}}</ref> The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit ''yesterday'', after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
:::::The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. ] (]) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. ] &#124; ] 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
*:{{u|Vanamonde93}}, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we ''are'' in CIR territory; just look at PH's ] for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. ] &#124; ] 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
*Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? ] (]) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. ] (] • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*It looks to me like there is a consensus for an indefinite partial block for PerspicazHistorian from article space. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within a day or so, I will close as such. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Given PH's recent slew of requests on multiple admin talk pages, yes, please do. - ] ] 12:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
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{{hab}}


==LaylaCares==
{{Collapsed top | 1=failures to replicate don't count as negatives, ''all'' failures to replicate were due to errors that are now understood, ''all'' negative results were either faked or had failures for "obvious reasons not worth discussing in detail unless you are an expert", there is only a dozen negative papers on reliable sources, (since failures to replicate don't count as negatives), ''all'' positive results are correct and ''can't be disproved in any way'' (and finding errors on them would "overthrow the laws of thermodynamics and a large part of chemistry and physics going back to 1860"), ''all'' arguments against cold fusion are "not valid", only "six actual, professional scientists" have ever published papers showing errors but "their work has no merit" and they are "first-class crackpots"}}
{{hat|There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning LaylaCares===
"We know why the null experiments produced no heat; we can see that the false negatives are actually positive (just do the arithmetic right and you will see this) and anyone who looks at the fake data in the peer-reviewed paper will see that it is fake. You do not need to take my word for any of this -- the data speaks for itself."
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Vice regent}} 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|LaylaCares}}<p>{{ds/log|LaylaCares}}</p>
"There are no peer-reviewed papers from top journals that call cold fusion into question. Not one study and not one paper has ever demonstrated an error in a positive cold fusion paper If anyone ever did find an error, it would not only disprove cold fusion, it would overthrow the laws of thermodynamics and a large part of chemistry and physics going back to 1860. That isn't going to happen."


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
"There are no negative papers in APS journals, or anywhere else. Only about a dozen negative papers have been published in history of cold fusion (...) There were several early papers describing experiments that did not work. That's a null, not a negative. The authors did not discover any fault in the positive experiments, or any other reason to doubt them. The reasons these early experiments failed is new well understood and has been described in detail. (...) Actually, the three most famous negative papers, at Cal Tech, Harwell and MIT were false negatives. (Actually positive.) They all got excess heat at the same rate as others did in 1989, but they did not realize it, or they erased it and published fake results. (...) There are no experimental counter-claims. No one has ever done an experiment that calls into question cold fusion, or an experiment with a prosaic explanation that exhibits the same behavior (i.e., one that produces tritium or megajoules of heat per mole of reactant.) (...) The failures were all for obvious reasons not worth discussing in detail unless you are an expert."


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
"There are, in fact, six actual, professional scientists who have published papers and books that purport to find errors in cold fusion experiments. I have uploaded as much of their work as they have given me permission to upload. I encourage everyone to read them, especially Huizenga, Hoffman and Morrison, because I think their work has no merit. It will convince readers that there are no valid arguments against cold fusion, which is correct. If you want to add their arguments to this article, I encourage you to do so. They are first-class crackpots, but unlike the anonymous crackpot opinions now littering the article these are from real professors with names from legitimate institutions who have actually published papers with falsifiable technical claims -- papers you can read at a library, or at LENR-CANR.org. (A few others have written books attacking cold fusion that have no technical content; that is, no falsifiable technical arguments that can be resolved with reference to data. For example, Park claims that all cold fusion scientists are liars, lunatics or criminals. Such claims cannot be put to the test by examining colorimetric data, whereas anyone who knows a little chemistry will find glaring errors in papers by Morrison or Hoffman.)"
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
"Shanahan's hypotheses, if true, would disprove most electrochemistry and calorimetry going back to Lavoisier's 1781 ice calorimeter (which is used in some cold fusion experiments), and J. P. Joules's calorimeter circa 1845 (which is used in many others). There is no chance Shanahan is correct." (follows rant about why skeptics believe him)
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# EC gaming


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;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
{{Collapsed top|1=citing a paper that in which he participated and which has been published only on his website, in order to disproof 174 early failures to replicate the original experiment of Pons and Fleischmann}}


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
"As it happens, we just today uploaded a review paper discussing some of early failures, and the reasons for them: The authors examined 174 papers, in detail. They did a lot of analysis not shown in the paper. (I assisted so I know about it.)"
Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
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; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
{{Collapsed top|1=skeptic conspiracy to put nonsense on the cold fusion article, which prevents cold fusion from getting funds}}


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
"On the other hand, the article is full of irrelevant and unimportant stuff, not to mention imaginary nonsense cooked up by 'skeptics.' Replacing some of that garbage with Arata might not be a bad idea. But anyway, Misplaced Pages belongs to the 'skeptics' and know-nothings. They should do whatever they please with the article. No legitimate scientist will contribute."


===Discussion concerning LaylaCares===
" point to an archived version of site for some reason. I suppose this is some crazy scheme by the skeptics to stop people from reading LENR-CANR , but it will not work for anyone who has half a brain (...) make things up and stuff them into the article. At least I have sources other than my own imagination! (...) You skeptics have done that to me before".
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by LaylaCares====
"You and the other so-called skeptics have repeatedly erased peer-reviewed information about cold fusion and substituted your own unfounded opinions. You pay lip service to the peer-review, but you have no respect for the system or its results"


====Statement by Aquillion====
"There is no chance Shanahan is correct. The fact that skeptics such Paul V. Keller are so quick to believe him, and add his theories to this article, shows that they are grasping at straws, and they will believe anything that comes along without a critical examination, even if it means they must throw away the whole basis of chemistry and physics"
Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be ]-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail ], since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --] (]) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


===Statement by Dan Murphy===
"That's the difference between me and anti-cold fusion people (...) My opponents, on the other hand, want you to ignore me -- just as they want you to ignore the scientific literature, and the laws of physics and chemistry (...) They want to squelch the debate and keep everyone ignorant, and Beware! Beware! of actual data and peer-reviewed papers!"
Please look at ], written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.] (]) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by starship.paint====
"The field is not funded because there is enormous academic opposition to it, which comes mainly from people like Keller who do not read the literature and thus know nothing about the research, and yet who feel free to fabricate claims about it such as the notion that gamma rays have not been detected by other means! And also to free associate and invent new definitions for 'pathological science' such as: 'returning to the original theory.' Despite the opposition, a great deal of progress has been made (...)"
I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, . '''] (] / ])''' 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
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<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
{{Collapsed top|1=wikipedia editors on cold fusion are "a bunch of ignorant crackpots who do not understand the laws of thermodynamics"}}


===Result concerning LaylaCares===
" They do not make stupid mistakes. They have repeated the experiment thousands of times. They seldom read the kind of comments you skeptics make here, but when they do they instantly dismiss you people as a bunch of ignorant crackpots who do not understand the laws of thermodynamics, who have no clue how a calorimeter works, and who criticize papers they have never read. Naturally, I agree with them. You people imagine you are qualified to write an article about cold fusion. I doubt that you would casually edit some similar article about some other scientific research that you know nothing about, but for some inexplicable reason you imagine that you are experts on this subject, and that you can casually contradict the likes of Iyengar, Miles or Fleischmann. You imagine that their work is "discredited." This is unbelievable chutzpah. It is egomania. This is why Misplaced Pages will never become a viable source of information about this research."
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. ] (]) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. ] (]) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. ] (]/]) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
*@]: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. ] (]/]) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I don't think the wording of ] allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. <small>(ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.)</small> That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making ''real'', substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag ''is'' an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==AstroGuy0==
"Misplaced Pages articles about biology are not overrun by Creationist crackpots, so why are the 'skeptics' who know nothing about cold fusion allowed to overwrite this one?"
{{hat|{{u|AstroGuy0}} has been issued a warning for source misrepresentation by {{u|Voorts}}. No other reviewers have expressed any wish for further action. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 06:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC) }}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning AstroGuy0===
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; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Hemiauchenia}} 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|AstroGuy0}}<p>{{ds/log|AstroGuy0}}</p>
{{Collapsed top | 1= COI, promotion of himself and his website }}


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
sings every single post with his name and website "Jed Rothwell, Librarian, LENR-CANR.org".


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
"I have put years of effort into making both pro- and anti-cold papers available to the public at LENR-CANR.org (...) I want everyone to know as much as possible. I have made hundreds of papers available, and people have downloaded 1.1 million copies of them. And by the way, if you want to know who I am, I suggest you read some of my papers at LENR-CANR.org."
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
(Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of '''race/ethnicity''' and human abilities '''and behaviour'''")


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
"Of course you read about them at LENR-CANR.org to your heart's delight. I have compiled a list of null and false negative experiments; contact me via the front page."
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
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# Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once.
# Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani"


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
As a quiet witness, I'd just like to point out that this request is littered with false accusations. If I were to give a diagnosis, I would say this is largely the result of ] - a lot of the false accusations seem to stem from that.


: Made aware of contentious topics criterion:
# "claims that there is a skeptic conspiracy to make up nonsense and put it in the article to replace real sources"
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
#*false on its face
# "engages into lenghthy OR discussions"
#*i.e. corrects misinformation / fallacy (before it finds its way into the article)
# "claims that all papers showing negative results are faked by their authors"
#* providing a few (two, i think) concrete examples of faked negative results is not the same as claiming all results are negative. but apparently the acccuser has confused the two. this seems to be a case of the ].
# "...that sources can be falsified by examining ''leaked raw data''"
#* not sources, but to show that published results are fradulant. this is a perfectly legitimate and widely accepted way to demonstrate fraud. i don't understand what your problem with it is, and am forced to conclude that it's simply a matter of prejudice.
# "shows his self-published papers that he co-authored as proof against prestigious journals"
#* I don't know what you're talking about here. Clearly, the article is to present all notable POVs.
#"forces other editors to engage into more OR to disproof his misrepresentations"
#* I have yet to see any editor "disprove" his "misrepresentations".
#"promotes his own website as the alpha an omega of cold fusion sourcing"
#*false on its face
#uses the page as a ]
#* As far as I'm aware, he hasn't made any edits to the article whatsoever.
#"claims that " is mainly a display of ignorance, not bias.""
#*I think you misunderstand. The point is that not treating something seriously is, by definition, ''ignoring'' it. And although ignoring evidence that disagrees with one's convictions may be an unfortunate result of bias, people who are willing and able to ] about a problem are able to suspend this unfortunate human trait in spite of any bias they may have. So ignorance does not always follow from bias. (And conversely, ignorance can be caused by things other than bias.) Thus, bias cannot be directly concluded, just a choice -- conscious or unconscious -- to ignore certain evidence.
#clutters the talk page history
#* Oh no!!
# (counting also Sinebot because he refuses to sign)
#* etiquette. but i do agree it's getting kind of old.
# "when menaced with arbitration discrectionary sanction..."
#* "menaced" - interesting word choice. anycase, yeah, that's a matter of record. i think the point is pretty clear: he doesn't feel like he's done anything wrong and thinks you're being frivolous. frankly, i agree.
]<sup>]</sup> 15:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
:I find your statement inaccurate and diffless. I have added more diffs to address your points and expanded my comment, I urge uninvolved admins to check the diffs themselves to see if I'm making false accusations or not, and if this editor deserves a formal warning. Finally, ] also applies to talk pages. --] (]) 18:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
::I'm sorry, you can't ]. That's why I have no diffs. I would expect someone who would like to be thought of as scientifically-minded to not fall prey to ''that'' fallacy, above all.
::But let's just say that your diffs are mine. My proof is in what they DON'T show. (hence "negative" in negative proof) That is, my claim is that, through exaggeration, black-and-white thinking, etc., you made for yourself a ] that cannot be fulfilled. In any case, I'll be waiting with bated breath for your diff showing him claim that "all papers showing negative results are faked by their authors". That one I've got to see to believe. ]<sup>]</sup> 18:31, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


Additional comments by editor filing complaint:
:::Hum, just pick the third collapsable box, click on "show", and examine the four diffs there (he didn't make all the claims in one single diff). They are quite self-explanatory, and I think that my proof is on what they ''do'' show. If you think I'm exaggerating a claim, it should be easy to pick one of the boxes and show how the diffs don't support the corresponding statement, people at ANI do it every day despite your claim that it's a logical fallacy. --] (]) 19:03, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. ] (]) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::::They are. The one where he states "There were several early papers describing experiments that did not work. That's a null, not a negative. The authors did not discover any fault in the positive experiments, or any other reason to doubt them." clearly acknowledges the existence of "several" "negative" results that were not faked. When he says "that's a null, not a negative", he means -- and I thought this was pretty obvious -- that an experiment that fails to produce a result, even thought it's called "negative", does not disprove. For example, I could try to setup an experiment to do ''hot'' fusion, and I can tell you right now with almost absolute certainty that it will fail miserably. That would be a "negative result" if there ever was one, but by no stretch of the imagination would that prove that thermodynamic fusion is a bunch of B.S.
::::To do that, I'd have to take a "successful" thermodynamic experiment and show how the result is caused by something else. (and this doesn't mean making a fake positive result to show that all positive results are fake, or showing how positive results ''could'' be faked. i could do that for hot fusion, too. (just give me some cardboard, some crayons, some construction paper, and a scissors) but no self-respecting journal would publish it. (and i'd lose a lot of respect for myself.))
::::In fact, there is a positive that I can prove - you implied that he never acknolwedged the existence of any non-faked negative results. If I were to go and find a diff for you showing such acknowledgement, that would be it - the one you provided! You just have to read it for ''meaning'', not semantics. (And rest assured, I show you the same respect.) Like I said, your diffs are mine. And that is SO my diff. ]<sup>]</sup> 19:15, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::And I've read more of the other diffs you provided and it's all the same. Misrepresentation up the wazoo. If you were to show him the respect of a fair and accurate reading - if you were to honestly try to understand what he is trying to communicate - well, I think that would accomplished a lot more. ]<sup>]</sup> 19:42, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::well, I'll just wait for admins to look for themselves to the diffs and decide. --] (]) 20:48, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


===Discussion concerning AstroGuy0===
::::::I fixed my statements on that box, so it's more accurate (and long and unwieldly *sigh*).
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
::::::You are right that he doesn't consider ''all'' of them fakes, he says that the most famous three "did not realize , or they erased it and published fake results" He still considers that there are no negative results at all, as he continues "There are no experimental counter-claims. No one has ever done an experiment that calls into question cold fusion, or an experiment with a prosaic explanation that exhibits the same behavior (...) The failures were all for obvious reasons (...)". I changed my statement to " ''all'' negative results were either faked or had failures for 'obvious reasons not worth discussing in detail unless you are an expert'"
::::::I don't think that there is any special meaning to read, he plainly says that the failures to replicate are are "null, not negative", and later says that "Only about a dozen negative papers have been published in history of cold fusion"(same diff as above)
::::::On the positive diff: yeah, that's the one I found too, I used it just above :D . I like how he didn't compile any actually negative experiment (because he doesn't believe that there is any at all, just "false negatives"!, lol). --] (]) 20:27, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not aware of any "actually negative experiment" either (in the manner described above: "To do that, I'd have to take a "successful" thermodynamic experiment..."), and you can laugh at me all you like for that. If there had been one, I would expect to see it at least mentioned in the cold fusion article, and surely the matter would be settled. For example, in the ] article, the "other cause" was found: "Chemical analysis invariably found that samples of polywater were contaminated with other substances (explaining the changes in melting and boiling points), and examination of polywater via electron microscopy showed that it also contained small particles of various solids from silicon to phospholipids, explaining its greater viscosity. ... When the experiments that had produced polywater were repeated with thoroughly cleaned glassware, the anomalous properties of the resulting water vanished." As I understand it, this is not the case for C.F. And thus, Jed is correct in his assertion, however funny you think that might be. ]<sup>]</sup> 21:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::::There are experiments that are clearly negative on its conclusions about cold fusion, even if none of them is conclusive enough to close the dispute forever like polywater, so that's not the issue here.


====Statement by AstroGuy0====
::::::::The issue here is that he has disqualified not just all negative experiments, but also every experiment that casted a bad light on cold fusion, ''and he has done it by way of his unpublished personal OR'', ignoring completely the reliability of the sources. Indeed, not only he has dismissed all reliable sources, but he has also questioned the reliability of the authors of papers that found errors in cold fusion experiments calling "the only six actual, professional scientists" doing them as "first-class crackpots", independently of the prestige or reliability of the authors, and independently of the reliability of the journals that published their findings.


====Statement by Iskandar323====
::::::::''That'' is a behaviour issue, concretely one of disrespect for wikipedia's policies and guidelines, one of completely dissing the WP:RS guideline in favor of his own personal OR and opinions, and then insisting once and again on the talk page despite explicitally saying that he has no intention at all to help improve the article (a violation of ] guideline), and then dissing the warnings to stop. --] (]) 22:04, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. ] (]) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
:::::::::Sure he's been dimunitive of some scientists but so have skeptics on the talk page, and he's just as entitled to his own opinion as they are to theirs. I don't see any OR he's put in the article, or anything for that matter. I think he's been rather helpful and informative, and i can provide plenty of diffs to back that up if you like.
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning AstroGuy0===
:::::::::As to the polywater example, it is quite pertinent to the issue, as the issue that we are(were) discussing is the interpretation of what was written. I'm sure you can see the prudence of getting all the facts straight before making a judgement. I provided the example to help clarify what Jed was saying. To my knowledge, no experiments have been done that are logically ''capable'' of "disproving C.F.". It helps to clarify the logical relationship of experiments, and that's what was being done. You somehow interpreted that as disqualifying experiments. And you said he hasn't compiled any negative results when in fact he said himself in a diff ''you'' provided that he has a pretty big list of them. And he never said he didn't believe there were any negative experiments. (how could he have a list of them then?) That's your own misinterpretation of what he wrote. ]<sup>]</sup> 18:33, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
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:The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. ] (]/]) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::Given that AstroGuy0 has already been issued a warning, I don't think anything further is necessary, and will close as such unless any uninvolved admin shortly objects. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 18:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==Lemabeta==
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Lemabeta===
:::::::::And might I add, you still have quite a bit of B.S. in your diff title. For instance "all positive results are correct and can't be disproved in any way" is clearly an inaccurate characterization as he never said all positive results are correct and he in fact explained how one could go about disproving them. (Besides, to say that something can't be disproved is to discredit it, as that which is not ] is not ].) ]<sup>]</sup> 18:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|EF5}} 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Lemabeta}}<p>{{ds/log|Lemabeta}}</p>
::::::::::No, seriously, that cold fusion ''can'' be disproved or not is not a content issue, it's a discussion on philosophy of science, and it has nothing to do with the exaggerated assertions that Jed does about how finding any error on positive experiments would overthrow the laws of thermodynamics among other things <s></s>. If he ever said how you can disprove cold fusion experiments, then please provide the diff, because I wasn't able to find it. (I added a pair of diffs, btw)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
::::::::::And, for the last time, WP:SOAPBOX also applies to talk pages, so don't say that he didn't edit the article as if this somehow exculpated him of using the talk page for advocacy. It won't be the first time that someone gets warned for disrupting talk pages. --] (]) 19:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
:::::::::::Whether cold fusion can be disproved or not isn't even being debated anywhere and never has been. (Clearly if it couldn't be disproved it wouldn't even be remotely scientific.) I've gone over this already. Philosophy of science is quite pertinent as the article is about a scientific topic and it the content should be presented as accurately as possible, esp. from the standpoint of science. It is esp. pertinent to the C.F. article because some consider C.F. to be pseudoscience. And Jed had never said or implied that "finding any error on positive experiments would overthrow the laws of thermodynamics". The diff you provide as evidence () doesn't even come close to saying that. You really need to stop putting words in his mouth. It's dishonest.
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
:::::::::::As to your comment: "And, for the last time, WP:SOAPBOX also applies to talk pages," I haven't disputed this in any way, so I don't know why you're saying "for the last time...". It seems to me like you're arguing against an imaginary enemy here. ]<sup>]</sup> 20:34, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
# - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.


::::::::::::Oh, my bad, the correct diff is . It's a literal quote from him. Well, dunno, maybe I'm really arguing against an imaginary enemy. I already exposed my statements and I accompanied them with the compulsory diffs, so I'll just STFU and let people read the diffs and decide by themselves just like I should have done a dozen comments ago. *surrepticiously goes to check the diffs one by one in case there are more mistakes* --] (]) 20:52, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
:::::::::::::That just happens to be the diff for my quote below! I think by "If anyone ever did find an error, it would not only disprove cold fusion, it would overthrow the laws of thermodynamics and a large part of chemistry and physics going back to 1860." he's referring to the fact that there isn't enough potential energy in the cell to produce the amount of heat observed. So without e=mc, the cell violates the law of conservation of energy. Kind of analogous to what's been said about ]: "It has been suggested that polywater should have been dismissed on theorical grounds. The laws of thermodynamics, which were already known at that time, predicted that, since polywater had a higher boiling point than ordinary water, it meant that it was more stable, and the whole column of ordinary water should have turned spontaneously into polywater, instead of just part of it." However, the C.F. argument assumes that the potential energy and excess heat measurements are fairly accurate. If you can find errors in the calculations sufficient to account for the discrepancy, or find a new (non-nuclear) source of energy in the cell, then you could potentially show that the phenomena is not nuclear, without violating the law of conservation of energy. ]<sup>]</sup> 21:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:(Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:: <small>Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. ] (]/]) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)</small>
::(RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning Lemabeta===
::::::::::::(edit conflict) Okay, I haven't gone through the trouble of collecting diffs, but here are some quotations from a brief perusal of the page: ''"Cold fusion is purely experimental. It is not based on theory, or guided by theory, and at present no theory can explain it. The notion that there is an "original theory" to "go back to" is nonsense. Szpak and others are trying to determine the nature of the reaction using different techniques. They are not trying to prove or disprove any particular theory, but rather to find out what nature has to teach us."'' Translation: there is no acting theory to "prove" or "disprove". There is a cause to be discovered. (Perhaps the term "cold fusion" is misleading in that respect, because no one really knows what it is.)
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Lemabeta====
::::::::::::''"No one has ever done ... an experiment with a prosaic explanation that exhibits the same behavior (i.e., one that produces tritium or megajoules of heat per mole of reactant.)"'' - there you go, "an experiment with a prosaic explanation that exhibits the same behavior", like i said above. I remember reading something a little more elaborate than that, but that does just fine. Again, the way to show that C.F. is not the cause of the phenomena is to find out exactly what ''is''. And this can't just be for one experiment. If there are other experiments in which said cause does not explain the results, then something ''different'' is going on there. A good theory should explain all of the experimental results (including the negative ones). This is hard to do of course, but it's been done numerous times before -- it's how we ''got'' the scientific theories we have in the first place. ]<sup>]</sup> 21:08, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --] (]) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


:Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are '''related but distinct concepts'''. An ''ethnographic group'' refers to a '''community of people''' defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, ''cultural heritage'' refers to the *''practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past''. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
:::::::::::::<nowiki>*sigh*</nowiki> This is the same OR that I am complaining about. There are secondary ] saying that it's not been proved and that the evidence is not convincing. Period. --] (]) 21:23, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
:So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. ] (]) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) '''emerges from''' ethnographic groups but '''does not define the group itself'''. ] (]) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. ] (]) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. ] (]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
::::::::::::::What research? I just gave you the talk page diffs you asked for and elaborated a little on them. How is that OR? ]<sup>]</sup> 21:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning Lemabeta===
::::::::::::::If you're calling my definition of a scientific theory ("''A good theory should explain all of the experimental results...''") "original research", then you are mistaken. I learned this definition back in grade school. When they first taught the scientific method in my school, they defined "hypothesis", "experiment", "theory", etc., and I remember them saying that a theory ties the results of many experiments together. Perhaps that wasn't part of your curriculum. But whatever the case, you need only look up the word ] in wikipedia (or any other encyclopedia, I imagine). Quoting the wikipedia article on theory (science section): "''It is supported by many strands of evidence, rather than a single foundation, ensuring it is probably a good approximation, if not totally correct.''", and "''Good theories consist of just one problem-solving strategy, or a small family of problem-solving strategies, that can be applied to a wide range of problems''". Alternatively, I suppose, I could have just referred you to the wikipedia article on ]. But I wasn't expecting to be accused of "Original Research" for simply reiterating what should be common knowledge to any scientist. ]<sup>]</sup> 18:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''

<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
(unindent) Kevin, see, wikipedia is based on sources, not on wikipedian's personal opinion of what is a valid demostration of a scientific theory. The available secondary reliable sources have been already beaten to death several times on ], there's no sense on rehashing them here again and making this page a sequel of the talk page. What I brought here is not a content dispute about an article, but a clear violation of WP:OR and WP:SOAPBOX (with WP:COI sprinkled on top).
*<!--

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And, Kevin, seriously, I have to say that, if Jed's comments had resulted on improvements on the article, even if it wasn't his intention, I wouldn't have been so quick to complain. And if he was more responsive to warnings about disruption, and if he was actually open to concede when clearly reliable sources are presented to him, then I would have been way way waaaay more tolerant of his OR and I wouldn't even have complained about him, I would have instead engaged on conversation with him (and, if you ask me by email, I can actually point you to a user on cawiki where this is happening actually, and a user on eswiki that I didn't complain about until it was made clear by one of his edits that he had no intention to respect a consensus we had just built, which meant that I had just ''wasted'' many many hours of my time addressing his arguments in good faith). --] (]) 19:04, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
* I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under ] from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". ] (] • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

*:To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:<br><nowiki>;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]</nowiki><br><nowiki><!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---></nowiki> ] (]/]) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:I believe ] is based on sources. And I didn't say anything about demonstration of scientific theories, so i don't know how that comparison came up. Point is -- as i have already stated -- i'm not giving you my personal opinion, i'm giving you ] that you can verify all you want.
*{{tq| Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed"}} @]: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. ] (]/]) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

*:Note that I've deleted ] as a clear G5 violation. I think ] is a bit more of a questionable G5. ] (]/]) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:Where you see disruption, I see a person trying to clarify some misconceptions that some editors have, and them showing a lot of resistance to that. Clearly when editors have misconceptions about the subject they're writing about, that can have a detrimental effect on the article. And after you just called what I wrote above "the same OR that I am complaining about.", I'm a little skeptical about what you call "OR". As to good faith, I can assure you that I have wasted many, many hours addressing arguments in good faith, and I don't regret it. It's an essential part of good communication. ]<sup>]</sup> 20:26, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
*:Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared&nbsp;... traditions" and "shared&nbsp;... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". ] (]/]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

*:@]: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. ] (]/]) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::"Clearing misconceptions" is not done by promoting your own unpublished research over the best published RS on the subject, like Jed is doing. That's called POV pushing. (answering on your talk page about wether citing ] to disprove RS is OR)
*:@]: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. ] (]/]) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

*:@]: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. ] (]/]) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::That being said, Jed seems to be starting to recognize that "there are discussions" that some positive experiments ''could'' have errors and that some measurements are not yet satisfactorily replicated. I was going to consider retracting my petition until I noticed his next message, saying that Phil's POV is worse than creationist's POV . Oooops. --] (]) 17:50, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
*:@]: They were "reviously given&nbsp;... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. ] (]/]) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{re|Lemabeta}} Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words {{tqq| highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity}}. There's a reason we use the words "]" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?){{pb}}This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::: Please stop arguing here. The IP made a few edits on December 4 to ] and has been inactive since. Most likely we should move on to better things than worry over this minor incident. ] <sup>]</sup> 12:02, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
*{{u|EF5}}, I don't understand your {{tq|"Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above"}} statement, can you please explain what it refers to? ]? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
{{archive bottom}}
:That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by ]. I'll AGF that they ''were'' accidental, but OTOH, they surely ''ought'' to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? ] &#124; ] 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).

::{{u|EF5}}, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are ], and the block log only logs blocks. ] &#124; ] 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
=={{User|AndroidCat}} readding inappropriate external links in {{article|John Carmichael (Scientologist)}}==
{{archive top}}
Scientology articles are under article probation as per last year's arbcom, requiring editors to be especially mindful of content policies. The videos re-added by AndroidCat are only marginally related to the article subject and moreover profoundly offensive. For example, the begins with "Robert Minton, recently profiled on will '''talk about shooting Scientologists, getting arrested, right ... no sorry, sorry .'''" <font color="#0000FF">]</font>''<font color=" #FFBF00">]</font>'' 13:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

: Scientology is at arbitration, as you well know. Please add evidence or parties to that case. This board is not for retaliation against content opponents. ] <sup>]</sup> 14:22, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:: Arbitration or not, if there are editors violating existing remedies, they need to be addressed. ] <small>]</small> 15:25, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:::I am not an editor of these articles. It is my opinion that there has been no violation of the ArbCom ruling. There seems to be a minor content dispute about an external link that could be settled with ] or perhaps reference to ]. ] is overkill for this minor dispute. ] <sup>]</sup> 15:36, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
::::Jehochman, have you viewed the videos? <font color="#0000FF">]</font>''<font color=" #FFBF00">]</font>'' 15:47, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::I looked at the introduction to one of them, and rapidly got bored. It looks like something that might not be an appropriate external link. If you folks want to push the matter, add it to the arbitration case; otherwise, this should be handled through ]. You'll note that this page is ''not'' part of DR. Thank you. ] <sup>]</sup> 16:49, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::Bah, they look like ]. I've taken them out. ] <sup>]</sup> 16:51, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Agree with removing the links. Obviously, in addition to the Scientology ArbCom restrictions, there also the BLP restrictions, which could be more pertinent here. ] (]) 17:00, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I wouldn't have brought it here if it hadn't been an ''outrageous'' violation of ] and ]. Articles are either under probation or not. If article probation cannot stem the flow of such material being added, then I don't know what will. I have no wish to edit-war over such material, or to explain to half a dozen editors who find this video fantastic just why it should be inappropriate. <font color="#0000FF">]</font>''<font color=" #FFBF00">]</font>'' 17:22, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Just to be clear, this video contains a string of derogatory comments about a religious minority, and one of the speakers shown in it makes a well-received joke about shooting them. The video was added as an EL to the BLP of a member of said minority. It is inexcusable. <font color="#0000FF">]</font>''<font color=" #FFBF00">]</font>'' 17:47, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:Every religion is a minority in some respect, so that's irrelevant. I agree with Jehochman that this would be better handled in the current ArbCom case. ]] ] 18:50, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
::Every race, too, is a minority in some respect. So how about videos of neo-Nazi rallies, with speeches featuring put-downs of Jews or black people, and jokes about shooting a few, added to BLPs of Jews or African Americans? It's not any better just because it's Scientologists here, is it? Or do you think we should make an exception for Scientologists? But by all means, I mentioned this thread in the arbcom evidence earlier today, so feel free to add AndroidCat as a party and invite him. And it is of course possible that AndroidCat never viewed the video and had no idea what exactly it contained. Still, I confess I was rather miffed. Cheers, <font color="#0000FF">]</font>''<font color=" #FFBF00">]</font>'' 19:14, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm not aware of any Misplaced Pages policy that makes special notice of minority religious issues. It's a red herring and irrelevant to this discussion. ]] ] 19:21, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::Don't you think policies on the use of fringe and extremist sources would apply to videos making such jokes as the ones described above? <font color="#0000FF">]</font>''<font color=" #FFBF00">]</font>'' 19:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
::::::That's a different matter. It's hard to say definitively that the critics of Scientology are a fringe or extremist element. I'm no expert, but just based on what I see in popular culture I'd say that the majority viewpoint of Scientology is critical. If you have evidence that this particular source is fringe then please present it. ]] ] 19:36, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:::::::How often do you read jokes about shooting Scientologists in mainstream sources, presented simply for reader amusement? The evidence is in the itself. Have you viewed it? <font color="#0000FF">]</font>''<font color=" #FFBF00">]</font>'' 19:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
::The video itself is probably authentic, and Mr. Carmichael did attend that meeting, so I'm not sure how this could be a violation of ], but to me this is a simple matter of ] and ]. I doubt an argument could be made that this one meeting carries sufficient weight for inclusion in Carmichael's BLP, and the link is definitely one to avoid. I don't think here or the current ArbCom are the correct venues for dealing with it, though. A simple explanation of weighting and the reliability of google videos as a source are probably sufficient. AndroidCat has not tried to add them back again, and I left a note on his talk page. If it must be included in the ArbCom, it should go into a section about sourcing problems in general. --<font color="green">]</font>] 19:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
:::Goodness, GoodDamon. In these videos, Carmichael is shown a couple of times sitting on a chair, for a second or two, and is shown saying something right at the end of the second part, while the camera goes up his nostril. The rest of the 30 minutes, it is these guys mouthing off about what crap Scientology is. If you can't think what parts of WP:BLP that might violate, check through ], ] and ] with a fine-toothed comb, and then look at ], which is referenced from WP:BLP. Do you see what I mean? <font color="#0000FF">]</font>''<font color=" #FFBF00">]</font>'' 19:25, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
::::I'm very familiar with BLP, thank you. I already said the links violate ] (which you, uhmm, helpfully re-linked for me; thanks), but as for BLP... As you said, most of the video doesn't even include Mr. Carmichael, and features other people talking about Scientology... not about Carmichael. Hence to me, in addition to it being a link to avoid, it is also a link about something other than the subject of the article. It's a classic ] issue actually, using Carmichael's article to attack Scientology itself, with the excuse that he appears (very, very briefly) in the video. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the link. Deleting it was the right thing to do, and AndroidCat needs to know that. BLP was definitely violated too, but indirectly, not through disparagement of Carmichael himself, unless I missed that in the video... Have to admit, I tuned it out a little. Tres boring. --<font color="green">]</font>] 19:41, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Further use of this board for drama mongering, soap boxing or attacking opponents may be met with warnings or sanctions. Please use the board only for appropriate purposes. Thank you. ] <sup>]</sup> 19:44, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
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    PerspicazHistorian

    PerspicazHistorian is blocked indefinitely from mainspace. Seraphimblade 03:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning PerspicazHistorian

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    PerspicazHistorian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBIPA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 17:57, 18 December 2024 - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of Hindutva (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
    2. 17:59, 18 December 2024 - tag bombed the highly vetted Hindutva article without any discussion or reason
    3. 10:15, 18 December 2024 - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
    4. 12:11, 18 December 2024 - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting reverted
    5. 17:09, 18 December 2024 - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
    6. 18:29, 18 December 2024 - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
    7. 14:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP."
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    • Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. Nxcrypto Message 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit here by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to MOS:TERRORIST. Nxcrypto Message 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by PerspicazHistorian

    • By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu Page.

    I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before User: Ratnahastin told me about this: User_talk:PerspicazHistorian. Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.

    • In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to Edit_warring#What_edit_warring_is it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of Misplaced Pages:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle.
    • As a clarification to my edit on Students' Islamic Movement of India, it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this edit. I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
    @Valereee, Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What edit warring is#Other revert rules. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes, I will commit to that. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. Seraphimblade 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when Satish R. Devane was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Hi @Doug Weller , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
    P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.Valereee (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • 1) I just asked an user @Fylindfotberserk if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
    2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    even @NXcrypto is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. see1see2 PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    as mentioned by @Valereee before, Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Valereee I once filed a complaint to find it @NXcrypto is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) moving to correct section Valereee (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
    2) My main interest in editing is Hinduism and Indian History topics.
    3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
    Please do not block me. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @Bishonen I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Vanamonde93@Bishonen I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned here. PPicazHist (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee@UtherSRG I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
      The article prasada doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about Misplaced Pages:CIR, I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! PPicazHist (talk) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
      @UtherSRG You mean to say, "The prasada is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, fruits and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the temple. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. " is not copy pasted by this website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? PPicazHist (talk) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
      @ UtherSRG I just asked others to share their opinion in the enforcement. With all due respect, I don't think its wrong in any sense. PPicazHist (talk) 15:13, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
      To all the admins involved here,
      • I agree to keep learning and apologize if my previous edits/replies have annoyed the admins.
      • I have not edit warred since a month and please see it as my willingness to keep learning and getting better.
      • Please give me a chance, I understand concern of you all and respect your opinion in the matter. But please don't block me from editing from main article space. I promise that I will abide by all the rules and will learn from other editors.
      PPicazHist (talk) 15:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by LukeEmily

    PerspicazHistorian also violated WP:BRD by engaging in an edit war with Ratnahastin who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.LukeEmily (talk)

    Statement by Doug Weller

    I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and User:Deb's comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving Draft:Satish R. Devane to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. Deb (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. Doug Weller talk 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... Doug Weller talk 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Toddy1

    This is another editor who appears to have pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-Republican views, but allowed Democrat-activists to say whatever they liked.

    A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.

    If we want to talk about WP:CIR when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .

    A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.

    I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Capitals00

    I find the comment from Toddy1 to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like False or misleading statements by Donald Trump.

    You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user only for your own mental relief. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "seek to censor" this editor due to his "pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure WP:BOOMERANG is coming for you. Capitals00 (talk) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Vanamonde93

    Toddy1: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.

    That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. This edit is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. Baji Pasalkar, entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ("first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya", and poor sources (like this blog, and this book, whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. Appa (title), also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.

    I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. Bishonen If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by UtherSRG

    I've mostly dealt with PH around Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ankur Warikoo (2nd nomination). They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the standard offer when they can demonstrate they no longer have WP:CIR issues. - UtherSRG (talk) 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    Based on these two edits, I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in WP:CIR territory here. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    This is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning PerspicazHistorian

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    PerspicazHistorian, can you explain your understanding of WP:edit warring and the WP:3RR rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring even if they aren't breaking 3RR. Valereee (talk) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    @PerspicazHistorian, that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is the first time someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
    Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH; in their revert NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. Valereee (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? Valereee (talk) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. Valereee (talk) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. Valereee (talk) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources. The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit yesterday, after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
    The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. Valereee (talk) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    • A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. Bishonen | tålk 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
      Vanamonde93, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we are in CIR territory; just look at PH's recent supposed evidence on this page for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. Bishonen | tålk 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
    • Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? Barkeep49 (talk) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
      I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • It looks to me like there is a consensus for an indefinite partial block for PerspicazHistorian from article space. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within a day or so, I will close as such. Seraphimblade 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
      Given PH's recent slew of requests on multiple admin talk pages, yes, please do. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    References

    1. "Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God". GaneshaSpeaks. Retrieved 2024-12-30.
    2. "What Is Prashad". Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj. Retrieved 2024-12-30.

    LaylaCares

    There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning LaylaCares

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Vice regent (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    LaylaCares (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ARBPIA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 13:54, December 17, 2024 EC gaming


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of this article on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).VR (Please ping on reply) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning LaylaCares

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by LaylaCares

    Statement by Aquillion

    Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be WP:G5-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail on the CSD talk page, since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --Aquillion (talk) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Dan Murphy

    Please look at Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.Dan Murphy (talk) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by starship.paint

    I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, click this link. starship.paint (talk / cont) 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning LaylaCares

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Aquillion: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      I don't think the wording of WP:ECR allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. (ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.) That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making real, substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. Seraphimblade 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag is an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    AstroGuy0

    AstroGuy0 has been issued a warning for source misrepresentation by Voorts. No other reviewers have expressed any wish for further action. Seraphimblade 06:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning AstroGuy0

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Hemiauchenia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    AstroGuy0 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics/Race and intelligence

    (Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour")

    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 03:19, 4 January 2025 Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once.
    2. 01:40, 4 January 2025 Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani"
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Made aware of contentious topics criterion: 01:52, 4 January 2025
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Additional comments by editor filing complaint:

    This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Discussion concerning AstroGuy0

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by AstroGuy0

    Statement by Iskandar323

    This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. Iskandar323 (talk) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning AstroGuy0

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. Seraphimblade 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Given that AstroGuy0 has already been issued a warning, I don't think anything further is necessary, and will close as such unless any uninvolved admin shortly objects. Seraphimblade 18:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    Lemabeta

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Lemabeta

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    EF5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Lemabeta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 5 Jan 2025 - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
    2. 4 Jan 2025 - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. EF 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. EF 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Here

    Discussion concerning Lemabeta

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Lemabeta

    Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --Lemabeta (talk) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are related but distinct concepts. An ethnographic group refers to a community of people defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, cultural heritage refers to the *practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
    So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) emerges from ethnographic groups but does not define the group itself. Lemabeta (talk) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. Lemabeta (talk) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Lemabeta

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under a topic ban imposed by a consensus of AE admins from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:
      ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
      <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> voorts (talk/contributions) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" @Lemabeta: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Note that I've deleted Draft:Rachvelians as a clear G5 violation. I think Mate Albutashvili is a bit more of a questionable G5. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared ... traditions" and "shared ... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". voorts (talk/contributions) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Tamzin: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @EF5: They were "reviously given ... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Lemabeta: Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity. There's a reason we use the words "broadly construed" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?)This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • EF5, I don't understand your "Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above" statement, can you please explain what it refers to? This T-ban? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
    That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by their apology for "accidental violations". I'll AGF that they were accidental, but OTOH, they surely ought to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? Bishonen | tålk 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
    EF5, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are very different, and the block log only logs blocks. Bishonen | tålk 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).