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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. MBisanz 02:30, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

James Hunter (film director)

James Hunter (film director) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Assertion of notability appear to be limited to non-notable films and companies. No reliable sources to assert subject as notable film director. - Omarcheeseboro (talk) 15:35, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Chasingsol (talk) 15:47, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

No reliable sources? I have listed several external links that prove Mr. Hunter is a film director. Your opinion if what is or is not "notable" or popular enough is your opinion alone and does not reflect any rules or criteria made by Misplaced Pages. All comments and items listed in the article are 100% true historical fact. I am new to Wiki however, and would appreciate any assistance you might give to make the article more sustainable. jwh3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jwh3 (talk • contribs) 16:56, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

• — Jwh3 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. . --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 17:11, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Reply The one source is imdb, which is just a listing of all films made. See notability for films, reliable sources. --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 17:04, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Reply Actually I have given you three sources and there are more. IMDB, AMAZON.COM, CREATESPACE.COM, WITHOUTABOX.COM, YOUTUBE.COM, INDIEFLIX.COM

I have read the guidelines for film notability, and again that falls within the category of personal taste and opinion. Mr. Hunter's films were released, distributed, and of public interest. And the fact that he made those films at such a young age further argues my case for inclusion. Jwh3 (talk —Preceding undated comment was added at 17:14, 20 December 2008 (UTC).

Comment: The Amazon sources state This product is manufactured on demand using DVD-R recordable media.. CreateSpace is also a self-publishing portal. It would appear that anybody can self-publish through these venues. Chasingsol (talk) 17:25, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

ReplyThis product is manufactured on demand using DVD-R recordable media.

So what? Does that mean James Hunter doesn't exist??

"CreateSpace is also a self-publishing portal. It would appear that anybody can self-publish through these venues."

Yes but not anybody has the resume or filmography of James Hunter. Again, these are opinions based on taste and preference, and your remarks are prejudicial in the least. Jwh3 (talk20 December 2008 (UTC)

• Delete not notable Clubmarx (talk) 17:47, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Reply "not notable"

Define "notable" please. Jwh3 (talk20 December 2008 (UTC)

• Additional comment: Misplaced Pages notability is described here.. Also, please try to be WP:CIVIL. Chasingsol (talk) 19:36, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete: Doesn't show notability per WP:BIO. Schuym1 (talk) 19:50, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. —Clubmarx (talk) 19:52, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
• Additional comment: This also appears to be WP:CONFLICT. User:Jwh3 appears to be the subject of the article itself, per their user page. I have also reinstated the Afd after it was removed from the page here. Chasingsol (talk) 20:00, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:02, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete No assertion of notability per WP:BIO, as well as appearing to be a WP:CoI Xenocide 02:16, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete No evidence of meeting the general or any specific notability guidelines. WP:COI doesn't help either. Cheers, CP 04:36, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

• Delete: I would delete for the present because of lack of independent references and the strength of the moves and roles therein. However, this may change in the future. Good luck. Royalhistorian (talk) 05:40, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete--No one is denying that Mr. Hunter is a film director, or that Amazon sells his stuff on demand. However, the WP community does deny that sites like YouTube.com offer independent verification of notability. Moreover, the COI issue is a bit too self-evident here; not that it takes away from possible notability, but it does raise questions about the believability of some of the statements. Then again, a thorough edit has removed much of the unverifiable and trivial content. What's left is not necessarily questionable, but it's also not notable. Hundreds if not thousands of people have 16mm equipment and have shot movies. Thousands if not tens of thousands have gone to LA to make it big and worked as waiters. I could go on. Subject, until proven otherwise (and I know one WP editor is on the case, perhaps he'll turn up something I (or the original author!) couldn't), is not notable; article should be deleted. Drmies (talk) 16:13, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete unless reliable sources can be found which establish the subject's notability and verify the facts in the article. No prejudice against recreation if such sources subsequently become available. Wiw8 (talk) 16:35, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Reply Article has been re-written and it is my opinion that the sources cited are notable. Article should NOT be deleted. This was the first article I have written for Wiki give me a break.

Reply "Hundreds if not thousands of people have 16mm equipment and have shot movies. Thousands if not tens of thousands have gone to LA to make it big and worked as waiters." You are being trivial and showing real ignorance. Hundreds and thousands have, but not at ages 14 and 17, and not producing those results, and certainly not in rural Alabama. Mr. Hunter was a local celebrity at that time. However, sufficient time has passed making this virtually impossible to prove. Also, I happen to know that Mr, Hunter didn't move to L.A. to "make it big" and end up as a waiter. In fact, he worked as a waiter for half a day and walked out. Mr. Hunter is at best a C-list celebrity, at worst he is a working actor. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT IF YOU PLAN TO CRITICIZE OR INSULT.

Jwh3 (talk 22 December 2008

• Delete but do not salt I've made a good faith effort to search for RS coverage of this James Hunter, but end up finding the musician, a colonial painter, high school athletes, a guy going to prison... When a guy doing time for writing bad checks comes up higher than you in a Google News search, you know you've got a PR problem. The author's questionable behavior is excusable per his newness to Misplaced Pages--frankly, the vehemence with which this article has been identified as not meriting inclusion may have been a little on the WP:BITEy side. Still, at the end of the day, there needs to be verifiability, and IMDb doesn't cut it. Jclemens (talk) 18:02, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
  • In response to the other comments below, let's not pile on here. Yes, this should be deleted as it stands now. But the author has not expressed an intention to recreate this article (that I've seen), nor has this article been created multiple times previously. If it's recreated in substantially the same form, it's already going to be subject to a G4 speedy deletion. Salting the title is not merited by the interactions I've seen here--salting should be more about protecting the encyclopedia and/or targets of BLP violations from egregious issues, not for "sticking it to" new editors who try to contribute something that's not notable and react with misguided but understandable vehemence when "their" article goes bye-bye. Jclemens (talk) 18:01, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Reply Everything you've just said is not very helpful at all. Except this: "the vehemence with which this article has been identified as not meriting inclusion may have been a little on the WP:BITEy side." Thanks for that. You wont find our James Hunter writing bad checks, and there is no official website for him. You're relying only on Google? What a joke. IMDB is much more trustworthy. Verifiability? Try making up a phony film and getting it listed on IMDB. It is my opinion that Omarcheeseboro started this out of a personal bias against Mr. Hunter. You're not gonna find much for our James Hunter on Google, since he was making films before the internet went online. Jwh3 (talk 22 December 2008

• • • So the only helpful thing he said was the one thing in your defense? Quite the one-sided view on things. Anyway, no one said this James Hunter writes bad checks. Google is a fine search engine and a pretty good indicator to one's notability. IMDB is not considered an indicator for notability and since most of the info is user added, it's also not always reliable. Claiming Omarcheeseboro has a personal bias against James Hunter is a completely baseless accusation and serious assumption of bad faith. Lastly, your argument that this James Hunter lacks google hits because his films were made before the dawn of internet, is quite frankly laughable. I guess Ludwig van Beethoven, who wrote all his music before the internet, is just a fluke with over 4 million hits then.--Atlan (talk) 19:26, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete. No evidence this person has been the subject of substantial coverage by multiple, reliable, third-party published sources. — Satori Son 19:41, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

• Strong delete Article does not show a shred of notability. ukexpat (talk) 19:44, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Reply "Google is a fine search engine and a pretty good indicator to one's notability." Google is a joke. Example:Perfect 10 v. Google, Inc. So what if Mr. Hunter doesn't have a publicist. That doesn't make his work any less real. "Lastly, your argument that this James Hunter lacks google hits" Is that your only argument? Google hits? LOL

And this: assumption of bad faith encapsulates the entire crusade against the inclusion the the James Hunter article. Thank. Ok last time:

www.amazon.com/dp/B001HZY1SO/

www.indieflix.com/Films/RobinHoodPrinceofSherwood

www.amazon.com/dp/B001HZY1T8/

www.indieflix.com/Films/TheRiverBridge

Not fancy enough for you? Ok here we go with the film festivals. YAWN:

ROBIN HOOD:

George Lindsey UNA Film Festival Tracking ID: 1231 Entry date: November 08, 2006

Sidewalk Moving Picture Festival Tracking ID: 06-0003 Entry date: March 17, 2006

Hollywood Film Festival(r) Tracking ID: 4440 Entry date: March 13, 2006

RIVER BRIDGE:

George Lindsey UNA Film Festival Tracking ID: 1230 Entry date: November 08, 2006

Sidewalk Moving Picture Festival Tracking ID: 06-0004 Entry date: March 17, 2006

Westwood International Film Festival Tracking ID: 06-1014 Entry date: February 08, 2006

Hollywood Film Festival(r) Tracking ID: 4186 Entry date: January 01, 2006

Atlanta Film Festival Tracking ID: 3932 Entry date: January 01, 2006

Los Angeles Film Festival Tracking ID: 8796 Entry date: January 01, 2006

VERIFIED. Jwh3 (talk 22 December 2008 —Preceding undated comment was added at 19:45, 22 December 2008 (UTC).

• You fail to debunk any of the opposing arguments. Entering your films at a film festival does not make one notable. Furthermore, this is about notability, not whether James Hunter and his films exist. Your rather hostile defense of this article is not doing you any favors, by the way.--Atlan (talk) 19:58, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

• • Comment: Jwh3 has now been blocked for 1 week by Smashville for disruptive editing/personal attacks. – ukexpat (talk) 20:22, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete vain vanity in vain. Obviously autobiographical. JuJube (talk) 21:07, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete obviously. I have credits on IMDB and there's no Misplaced Pages page on me, as there obviously shouldn't be. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 02:48, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

• Comment: Any chance an admin can snowball close/delete this one? – ukexpat (talk) 03:10, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
• Comment: Respectfully request this one be blocked from re-creation for the time being because of statement here from now banned user. Chasingsol (talk) 03:32, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Agree with the salt. --Clubmarx (talk) 05:05, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment - He's blocked for a week, not banned, but the salt is probably a good idea. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 14:39, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Except that "Administrators should not use creation protection as a pre-emptive measure, but only in response to actual events." Let's wait and see what actually happens. — Satori Son 15:16, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
• Strong delete per nom, with a tinge of vainglorious COI Theserialcomma (talk) 04:37, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete: Author is subject of article, and protect from recreation, per all the hilarity posted above. Ryan4314 (talk) 10:45, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
• delete per not a single, solitary reliable source to establish notability (or anything else). I don't undey therstand why these can't be speedy.Bali ultimate (talk) 20:35, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm amazed at the low level of intelligence with which most of you are exhibiting. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this article. It states absolute fact and is backed up by the most reputable movie database in the entire world. And those of you who are crying "vanity" are only envious. I have yet to see any real reason from any of you as to why this article should be deleted other than you just don't like it. I can name hundreds of articles like that but I dont need to delete them. Its very simple, if you dont like James Hunter dont look at his page. Move on. And to those of you who are asking Wiki to block recreation, you deserve a high position in either the Bush Administration or the Nazi party. This is ridiculous. Jwh3 (talk23 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.190.7.9 (talk)

• • Comment: See Misplaced Pages:Suspected_sock_puppets/Jwh3#User:Jwh3

*cmt Please don't call anyone stupid here again. As for you, you apparently continue to fail to read the relevant policies on sourcing, notability, etc... Here they are for your reading pleasure. WP:NOTE WP:COI WP:RS WP:RF. Happy editing, and cut the accusations.Bali ultimate (talk) 22:51, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.