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== Additions to Historical political structure ==

It think that we should add column for Estonia and perhaps for Latvia too to the Historical political structure scheme. As there are already countries such Iceland and Finland covered there, I don't see reason why Estonia should not be there.
To be more precise, I propose that:
1) 13th century: Northern part of Estonia was part of Denmark from early 13th century to mid 14th century.
2) 16th century: Denmark again obtained foothold in Estonia by acquiring the island of ] in ] roughly in the second half of 16th century, as did Sweden.
3) 17th century: Sweden obtained full control over Estonia at 17th century and controlled Estonia until ] at begging 18th century.
It think it is therefore justified to add at least Estonia the Historical political structure scheme.

Are there any objections to this? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 21:27, 18 February 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Unsourced additions and changes ==

Many of the recent additions to this article are unsourced speculations and changes to sourced text. I have sourced one section (about Finland and Iceland), but the following problematic edits remain to be dealt with:

#'''Self-styled (unsourced) comparative study added''' about Scandinavia/Scandinavians vs. "the Orient"/"Indian": ''While the former occupancy of Finland and shifting rule of Norway may have made this usage efficient, if not convenient – even after Norway and Finland resumed their national independence – this usage appears to be no more grounded in respect for the nations themselves than the term "Orient" is as a reference to various nations in the Eastern Hemisphere or "Indian" is as a reference for various tribal nations in the Americas''. Please attribute these speculations, using ]. Misplaced Pages is ].
#'''Cited text altered'''. A section that cites a published source has been altered. The original text read: "''<nowiki>Being a purely historical and cultural region, Scandinavia has no official geopolitical borders. The region is therefore often defined according to the conventions of different disciplines or according to the political and cultural communities of the area.<ref name="olwig">Olwig, Kenneth R. "Introduction: The Nature of Cultural Heritage, and the Culture of Natural Heritage—Northern Perspectives on a Contested Patrimony". ''International Journal of Heritage Studies'', Vol. 11, No. 1, March 2005, pp. 3–7.</ref></nowiki>'' Please add a direct quote from the source in the ref tag which confirms that the source is not being misrepresented/misquoted by the changes implemented. See ]: "''The source cited must directly support the information as it is presented in the article. When there is dispute about whether the article text is fully supported by the given source, direct quotes from the source and any other details requested should be provided as a courtesy to substantiate the reference''."
#The article's '''lead has been made into a single paragraph'''. See the style manual regarding desired length of leads for ]. This article is 59 kilobytes long! The two important paragraphs that summarized what the articles spends so many sections on, namely how the usage differs (in for example different disciplines) has been deleted. This aspect has also been chopped out of a direct quote from Encyclopedia Britannica. In the supporting footnote, EB is quoted as saying: "''Some authorities argue for the inclusion of Finland ... and of Iceland and the Faroe Islands ....''". The full quote reads: "''Some authorities argue for the inclusion of Finland '''on geologic and economic grounds''' and of Iceland and the Faroe Islands '''on the grounds that their inhabitants speak North Germanic (or Scandinavian)''' languages related to those of Norway and Sweden.'' These issues are essential and need to be mentioned in the lead.
#'''Peripheral issue''' inserted: a strange and totally irrelevant discussion about the adjective ] has been added to this article: "''<nowiki>Some American-English dictionaries, such as Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, do not include the names "Nordic Countries" or "Nordic Council". Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary instead defines Nordic as an adjective dated to 1898 with the meaning "of or relating to the Germanic peoples of northern Europe and especially of Scandinavia."<ref>. In Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. Retrieved 9 January 2008.</ref></nowiki>''. Please explain the significance of the 1898 definition of ''Nordic'' for this article (named Scandinavia), as well as the importance of the lacking coverage of ''Nordic Countries/Nordic Council'' in a particular dictionary? Does the dictionary perhaps list the ] as the "Scandinavian Council"? That would be odd enough to mention, but otherwise I fail to see why these two observations about Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary would be even remotely relevant here. Misplaced Pages already has an article about the ]. Please add it there. I'm removing it from this article.

As for the other problem spots mentioned, I will tagg them <nowiki>{{dubious}} and {{citation needed}}</nowiki>, and make them invisible for the time being. When they are properly sourced, please feel free to remove the invisibility tags. ] (]) 03:31, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

----
I have a beef about the section regarding 'Terminology and usage': The author writes about the incursion and occupation of Finland by Sweden. Finland was never an entity before it was seperated from Sweden in 1809. Swedes and Finns were of one nation for almost 800 years. Finland was a mere region of Sweden and nothing else. In the section 'Variations in usage' it's mentioned when '...Norway and Finland resumed their national independence' Finland had never been a free country until 1917, when Finland declared themself independent, so therefore making it impossible to 'resume' anything. /A --] (]) 02:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

==Weasel==
The article starts off by boldly telling people what Scandinavia is "generally" consiedered to be. As the talk page makes very clear, this is a contested issue and anyone claiming that their own view is the general view is merely POV-pushing. Regardless which definition one goes for, sources can be found to support it, so not even by using a source is it possible to claim what Scandinavia "generally" is, not as long as other sources can be used to contradict it. ] (]) 10:10, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

==Denmark & the definition of Scandinavia==
Denmark should not be considered a part of Scandinavia as Scandinavia is the name of the mountain-range/half-island that only Sweden and Norway is a part of. Danes have a Norse/Scandinavian culture but that doesn't make it a part of Scandinavia. Finland has a greater claim to being part of Scandinavia then what Denmark has. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 17:51, 29 November 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I recommend you actually read the article as well as the article on the ]. That may straighten out the incorrect notion you hold about the term "Scandinavia". --] (]) 11:45, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

:Scandinavian Peninsula is named after Scandinavia (Den, Nor, Swe).
:Bahrain is located in the Persian gulf, that does not mean Bahrain is Persian. Neither is Finland Scandinavian. --] (]) 21:22, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

== Historical political structure ==

Under "Historical political structure" it says that there were Pict/Celt minorities in Iceland and Faroes. There were in reality slaves that intermarried within few generations. There were never any minorities as there are of Finns in Sweden. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 09:00, 29 December 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP -->

==Scandinavia is Denmark, Norway and Sweden, and is an unambiguous term==

I'm a bit fed up by ignorant foreigners who have misunderstood the meaning of the name Scandinavia. In Scandinavia, the term is used unambiguously for Denmark, Norway and Sweden. Other countries are not included. It's simply incorrect. Instead, the term ] cover Scandinavia + Finland and Iceland. Scandinavia share a language and a culture which neither Finland nor Iceland are sharing (except for small culturally Scandinavian minorities living in those countries). ] (]) 05:05, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Please remember that this is an encyclopaedia for everyone, not just you. I have heard many times Scandinavia to also include Finland, even within the narrower definition that you declare. As a Swedish-speaking Finn, I consider Finland to be a Scandinavian country. However, I realise that does not make it one in the eyes of everyone in the same way as your strong belief that Scandinavia does not include Finland will not be shared by all. The fact that there is more than one definition to be found shows that there is a considerable degree of ambiguity! ] (]) 22:20, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

:::It is of course possible to speak a ] language without living in ], just as it is possible to speak ] without living in ]! ] is a Scandinavian language, but still, ] is not a part of Scandinavia! --] (]) 18:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

::::It is not quite that simple. In English, as opposed to some Scandinavian languages, the term Scandinavia is relatively often used to include both Iceland and Finland. Looking at books in English, this usage seems to at least as common, if not more common, than using Scandinavia to refer only to Sweden, Denmark or Norway.] (]) 18:46, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

:::::Definitions are hard. Especially if you consider how they used to be defining. Dolphins are often called fish for instance. Does that mean fish includes dolphins? or does it mean a lot of people don't understand what Dolphins are or where Finns come from? ] (]) 20:13, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

==Culture - Metal Music==

Scandanavia, particularly Sweden and Norway are known world over as the central points for extreme metal music, especially black metal, and this important cultural export should probably be mentioned in the article somewhere. Many great bands such as Marduk, Gorgoroth, Mayhem, Dimmu Borgir, Carpathian Forest, Bathory, Dark Funeral, Immortal, etc etc all hail from Scandanavia and are famous around the world on all continents. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 11:08, 19 March 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Fennoman movement==
The paragraph about the ] (at ]) is horribly wrong, missinterpreting the source. The people in the Fennoman movement in the 19th century were mostly Swedish-speaking upper class and the movement was not about lingual or ethnic rights but about forming a new nation. The opposing ] had worries that emphasizing Finnish would weaken Finland and its the bounds to the western world, while the Fennomans regarded the Finnish language as essential for the new Finnish nation.

I do not have good sources at hand and my English is not good enough for correctly describing the subtleties if the matter, but this should be corrected.


== Ahem ==
--] (]) 10:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


Iceland and Finland is NOT Scandinavia! Norway, Sweden and Denmark are! ] (]) 07:22, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
== you tell me nothing ==
:] --] (]) 09:46, 27 January 2022 (UTC)


=== Ahem2 ===
i looked at this website for homework that i coudn't find in the book and you told me nothing of the question that i asked you............. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 19:46, 21 April 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:The whole website o.O That's quite a feat. Try our ] - ] (]) 10:48, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


Why are you making fun of people telling you the truth?! I'm from Norway and Norway is, together with Sweden and Denmark SCANDINAVIA! The Nordic countries are SCANDINAVIA + Iceland and Finland! So edit it NOW or be deleted and thrown out! ] (]) 16:32, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
== Another Definition Gripe ==
:As will be clear from reading the article, and from reading the archives here, there are plenty of reliable sources in English calling all five Nordic countries Scandinavia, just as there are plenty on reliable sources in English defining Scandinavia as just Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. It is exactly because English usage is somewhat inconsistent that the article reflects this situation. Keep in mind that English usage is the '''only''' usage that matter on English Misplaced Pages, so our own definitions in Scandinavian languages (Swedish in my case) really don't matter. ] (]) 17:00, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
::If the usage is wrong, it’s wrong. In most of Europe, the usage of England and English is synonymous to Britain and British. That doesn’t make it correct. Much in the same way when someone is referring to an US citizen use the term “American”
::So it really doesn’t matter if the usage in English often refer to the Nordic countries as “Scandinavia” ] (]) 20:23, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
:::Read ]. And to correct you: it matters a lot to Misplaced Pages what English usage is. ] (]) 23:56, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
:::{{tq|In most of Europe, the usage of England and English is synonymous to Britain and British. That doesn’t make it correct.}} That's also fairly common among Americans - but I'm fairly certain that 'European' and US dictionaries don't say English = British. This makes the difference between established usage and common mistake. Many languages adapt or misappropriate 'foreign' words. ] (]) 07:13, 3 November 2023 (UTC)


===Ahem3 ===
I find one line in the introduction particularly poorly worded: "in Scandinavia the term is used unambiguously to refer only to Denmark, Norway and Sweden...". I don't want to continue the debate about which countries comprise Scandinavia and which do not, but this is certainly more confusing than it is helpful. It's not at all clear what this sentence actually means, though the implication is that in DK, NO, and SE the term refers to those three nations together. Given the disagreement surrounding the definition of Scandinavia, it would likely be best to reword this or remove it.


] (]) 14:09, 19 August 2009 (UTC) So you mean that only english people is worth anyhing? You are reportert! ] (]) 17:29, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
:No, we mean that English-speaking people get to decide what words mean and how they are used in English. Just as French/German/Danish/Swedish etc people get to decide what words mean in THEIR OWN languages and most alter and sometimes mis-appropriate some words. I'd bet any sum you like that you 'misuse' Greek words on a daily basis - including the word 'Greek' itself - which is an invention by other nationalities. ] (]) 18:06, 28 January 2022 (UTC)


== Scandinavia and Nordic is NOT interchangeable or a synonym ==
:"While some authorities argue for the inclusion of Finland and Iceland, in Scandinavia the term is used unambiguously to refer only to Denmark, Norway and Sweden, which share a mutually intelligible language (a dialect continuum), ethnic composition and have close cultural and historic bonds, to a degree that Scandinavians may be considered one people (see scandinavism)."


I would change this myself but there are so many references in the article that I don’t know which I can delete. Me personally I would delete them All because they are referencing something incorrect. I feel like this page could be more accurate. Not sure why Iceland and Finland are mentioned as Scandinavian when they are not. Altogether super confusing. :( who made those edits? There is a lot that could be improved which is a shame.
:In addition to the circle definition there is the problem about the (unsourced) description that follows. Finland Swedes share the same language (as much as the others do) and the cultural and historic bounds. On the other hand the sami people probably do not share them, at least not in the same way. And what is the shared ethnic composition supposed to mean? I think nobody regards the Scandinavians as one people these days.
https://www.tripsavvy.com/difference-between-scandinavian-and-nordic-1626695 ] (]) 16:54, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


:I agree that there were too many refs in the section ], and I already removed some. By far the best reference currently in the article is Knut Helle's Introduction of the ''Cambridge History of Scandinavia'', Vol.1. It gives a very thorough discussion about the term ''Scandinavia''. Here's the part comparing it with the term 'Nordic'/'Norden':
:The close cultural bounds are used in '']'' cooperation, where Finnish and especially Icelanders use a second language (Swedish and Dannish respectively) to take equal part in the cooperation.
:{{blockquote|The term ''Norden'' has not so far taken root in English. The tendency has rather been to expand the concept of Scandinavia to include all the communities which conceive of themselves as ‘Nordic’. This has been helped by the fact that these communities, notwithstanding their internal differences, show a common geographical, historical and socio-cultural distinctness from the rest of Europe. The Scandinavia of this title , then, stands for what the Scandinavians themselves call ''Norden''/''Pohjola''/''Norðurlond''. In the following historical representation the terms Scandinavia and Scandinavian will be used in this wide sense. We find it convenient to use the adjectives ‘Scandinavian’ and ‘Nordic’ more or less synonymously }}
:Its not wrong, its just different from how the Nordic people themselves use the term. ] (]) 17:41, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
::Yeah as a nordic and scandinavian person I found this incorrect from common usage. Could be perhaps noted somewhere as online I see a lot of confusion? Maybe it could be mentioned how Scandinavians and Nordics do it because I know some Icelandic people who don't want to be called Scandinavia and feel pretty strongly about it. Which is understandable knowing the history. I feel, although it may not be factually correct, it is what is taught in those regions and by the people. And to be honest a lot of things are maybe factually incorrect in everyday life but we still use it anyway. I did notice you did change so so thank you for that, it is already looking better :) ] (]) 17:52, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
:::"Local" usage is already included in the article in the use of Nordic countries vs Scandinavia section. ] (]) 20:31, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
::::I have reread the page and it doesn’t not specify it. It’s probably there but I cannot see it would you mind showing me which part?
::::also I am a little confused what this is about “Usage in English is different from usage in the Scandinavian languages themselves (which use Scandinavia in the narrow meaning), and by the fact that the question of whether a country belongs to Scandinavia is politicised.”
::::Am I able to get a little clarification? What does it mean by narrow meaning? Scandinavians and Nordics alike all agree on who is in Scandinavia and who is in the Nordics. It’s the rest of the world that disagrees. ] (]) 21:21, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::This is the part: {{tq|The term Scandinavia (sometimes specified in English as Continental Scandinavia or mainland Scandinavia) is ordinarily used locally for Denmark, Norway and Sweden as a subset of the Nordic countries (known in Norwegian, Danish, and Swedish as Norden; Finnish: Pohjoismaat, Icelandic: Norðurlöndin, Faroese: Norðurlond).}} I already did some work in the article, but will try to fix the rest of that section later today. I'll probably base my edits on the book ''Contesting Nordicness: From Scandinavianism to the Nordic Brand''. (https://library.oapen.org/handle/20.500.12657/52267) ] (]) 09:02, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::::::Can I see the reference for continental Scandinavia and mainland Scandinavia as no one I've seen has used this. From what I can see online continental Scandinavia is about some car tyres and mainland Scandinavia is about the Scandinavian peninsula which of course doesn't include Denmark. That book seems like a solid reference, had a read through ] (]) 17:55, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I think it is better to rewrite the section. Here's what I am thinking: ]. That still needs some work on the sourcing. ] (]) 18:10, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
::::::::This seems way better than what is there currently. Thank you for working it! ] (]) 18:33, 15 June 2024 (UTC)


== Scandinavian ==
:--] (]) 08:19, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


In the section ''Different meanings of the term Scandinavian'' () there's the following text:
== Scandza/Jordanes ==
{{blockquote|In the ethnic or cultural sense the term ''Scandinavian'' traditionally refers to ], who are mainly descendants of the peoples historically known as ], but also to some extent of immigrants and others who have been assimilated into that culture and language. In this sense the term refers primarily to native ], ] and ] as well as descendants of Scandinavian settlers such as the ] and the ]. The term is also used in this ethnic sense, to refer to the modern descendants of the Norse, in studies of linguistics and culture.<sup>] ]</sup>}}
The references give examples of usage, but do not actually discuss the term at any length. There's nothing about immigrants and assimilation. This seems like original research. The next paragraph is bit similar, giving a commentary about short dictionary definitions.


Then there's a paragraph about Sami peoples, specifically about the term 'Scandinavian' being applied to them. I skimmed the first reference, and found no discussion at all about the term 'Scandinavian'. The second reference I cannot fully access, but I suspect the same is true there. At least the snippets in Google Books don't give relevant results for .
''"In Jordanes' history of the Goths (AD 551) the form Scandza is used for their original home, separated by sea from the land of Europe (chapter 1, 4). Where Jordanes meant to locate this quasi-legendary island is still a hotly debated issue, both in scholarly discussions and in the nationalistic discourse of various European countries."''


To me it seems better to discuss Scandinavia and Scandinavian simultaneously, without devoting a separate section for the adjective. Especially if the section is difficult to source. ] (]) 14:45, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
This isn't true, and the references don't support almost any of it. First: There doesn't seem to be any dispute whatsoever on whether Jordanes' ''Scandza'' was Scania/Scandinavia or not. Goffart (the better reference) is skeptical on whether Scandza really was the original home of the Goths, but he does not seem to dispute that Jordanes meant Scandinavia. (In fact he argues that Jordanes may have based ''Scandza'' off existing sources on Scandinavia, such as Ptolemy.) Also, the majority opinion would still seem to support Jordanes claim though (and Goffart seems to acknowledge that). Second: It's not part of the 'nationalistic discourse' anywhere, AFAIK. ] has been stone-dead for over a century now. In any case, controversy over the Goths origins belongs in the article on the Goths. This article is about Scandinavia and Jordanes is still considered about as good as any early source on that. (unlike the hyperborean ideas) --] (]) 02:08, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


:I agree that the section appears to be largely ] and is anyway fairly muddled. I'm not what, if anything, is rescueable. ] (]) 08:04, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
== B-class really? ==


The references to the section show that the settlers in Iceland and the Faroe Islands originated from Scandinavia. But they don't show that Iceland and the Faroe Islands are part of Scandinavia. This is similar to suggesting that the USA is part of Europe, because most of the current population has European ancestry. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 03:21, 24 September 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Really? REALLY?! Anyone read NPOV guidelines or noticed that this article has huge amounts of non-cited material? Not to mention the plain WRONG and misleading information? Fareoes and Aland are not independent countries, so the timeline on what countries where in what political structure, while interesting and very cool, need to be updated regarding that Aland IS Finland and the Faeroes ARE in Denmark, not independent. The lead (or lede as some like to be stupid about it) reads very much like two squabling authors who are arguing about Finland and whether it matters what the people outside Scandinavia consider Scandinavia to be (btw- yes it does matter ALOT, and even in many cases MORE important what people outside Sc. consider to be in Sc. than it does what the Scandinavians say). That's where the POV problems are. There's alot that needs citations and cleaned up. B-class is unacceptable the way this is currently. Please clean it up, or change the rating.] (]) 02:06, 16 October 2009 (UTC)


:They are not universally accepted as part of Scandinavia, which the article makes quite clear I would think. ] (]) 20:08, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
== POV - This is English Misplaced Pages ==
I realize that most users editing this article will be Scandinavians themselves and that they probably are unaware of their own bias, but that doesn't change much - this is English Misplaced Pages and English usage is what matters. It is perfectly true that ''Skandinavien'' is almost exclusively (and I say almost to allow for doubt though I'm unaware of any) taken to mean Denmark, Norway and Sweden. That is how the argument should go in those Wikipedias, but not here (]). In common English usage, Finland is almost always included in Scandinavia, and Iceland is not rare either. Look up any guidebook to Scandinavia in English (or most other languages) and it will include Finland. Are guidebooks reliable academic sources? Definitely not, but they are certainly indicative of common usage. For every person looking up a definition of Scandinavia in Britannica, there will probably be 1000 looking at a Lonely Planet, Rough Guide, Frommer's, Fodor etc.
Now, this article is firmly rooted in the Skandinavien view. Already in the introduction this is made evident, and then a large amount of space is spent on explaining how The Nordic Countries differ from Scandinavia. This is relevant in Swedish, but irrelevant in English where Scandinavia is almost always used instead of The Nordic Countries. What people need to understand is that the ''Skandinavien''-view is not the '''corect''' point of view. Using English does not only mean to use English words and grammar, it also entails following English usage. To virtually all English speakers, Scandinavia ''is'' the Nordic Countries, sometimes without Iceland. The definition of the word in Scandinavia itself can be mentioned in the article, but devoting half the article to that mean and even implying that that usage is "correct" and the English usage somehow "mistaken" is plain POV, although the users doing so probably are in good faith. Being Swedish myself, I'm well aware of how well-rooted we are in the belief that the Swedish way of thinking by definition is the correct one and that we should "explain" to the rest of the world how it really is. This article falls into that very trap, making it highly POV.] (]) 03:48, 16 October 2009 (UTC)


== Unhelpful infobox image ==
:I agree that we should always remember which language version of Misplaced Pages we are editing. When it comes to Scandinavia, it really does depend where you are. Until very recently, the overwhelming meaning of the term in the German-speaking world referred to Norway, Sweden and Finland (i.e. notably excluding Denmark). In Finland, usage often includes Finland - especially when used by Swedish-speaking Finns. I would also point out that the following sentence, in the introduction, does not make sense as it contradicts itself. It states both that Scandinavia does not have a single fixed meaning and then goes on to state that in 'Scandinavia' there is some form of unambiguous usage. That's problematic if, for instance, a Finn considers himself as being in Scandinavia!
"While some authorities argue for the inclusion of Finland and Iceland, in Scandinavia the term is used unambiguously to refer only to Denmark, Norway and Sweden."
] (]) 23:31, 18 October 2009 (UTC)


The satellite photograph that is the current infobox image is not helpful at all. Even with prior knowledge of the region, it's impossible to distinguish cloud cover from snow to come up with a meaningful understanding of what Scandinavia is from that photo. A map would be much more useful. ] (]) 07:01, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
As this is an encyclopedia, we should be correct, not present misunderstandings as fact. If 90 % of the world population believed Earth to be flat, should we accept that as a fact even it's wrong just because some ignorant people believe it? Scandinavia is Denmark, Norway and Sweden. It's an unambigous term, there is no question which countries are part of Scandinavia. Just like Russia is not part of Africa, Finland is not part of Scandinavia. ] (]) 22:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

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Ahem

Iceland and Finland is NOT Scandinavia! Norway, Sweden and Denmark are! 78.156.8.155 (talk) 07:22, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Here we go again! --Surfo (talk) 09:46, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Ahem2

Why are you making fun of people telling you the truth?! I'm from Norway and Norway is, together with Sweden and Denmark SCANDINAVIA! The Nordic countries are SCANDINAVIA + Iceland and Finland! So edit it NOW or be deleted and thrown out! 78.156.8.155 (talk) 16:32, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

As will be clear from reading the article, and from reading the archives here, there are plenty of reliable sources in English calling all five Nordic countries Scandinavia, just as there are plenty on reliable sources in English defining Scandinavia as just Denmark, Norway, and Sweden. It is exactly because English usage is somewhat inconsistent that the article reflects this situation. Keep in mind that English usage is the only usage that matter on English Misplaced Pages, so our own definitions in Scandinavian languages (Swedish in my case) really don't matter. Jeppiz (talk) 17:00, 27 January 2022 (UTC)
If the usage is wrong, it’s wrong. In most of Europe, the usage of England and English is synonymous to Britain and British. That doesn’t make it correct. Much in the same way when someone is referring to an US citizen use the term “American”
So it really doesn’t matter if the usage in English often refer to the Nordic countries as “Scandinavia” 87.53.91.170 (talk) 20:23, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
Read WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. And to correct you: it matters a lot to Misplaced Pages what English usage is. Jeppiz (talk) 23:56, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
In most of Europe, the usage of England and English is synonymous to Britain and British. That doesn’t make it correct. That's also fairly common among Americans - but I'm fairly certain that 'European' and US dictionaries don't say English = British. This makes the difference between established usage and common mistake. Many languages adapt or misappropriate 'foreign' words. Pincrete (talk) 07:13, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Ahem3

So you mean that only english people is worth anyhing? You are reportert! 78.156.8.155 (talk) 17:29, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

No, we mean that English-speaking people get to decide what words mean and how they are used in English. Just as French/German/Danish/Swedish etc people get to decide what words mean in THEIR OWN languages and most alter and sometimes mis-appropriate some words. I'd bet any sum you like that you 'misuse' Greek words on a daily basis - including the word 'Greek' itself - which is an invention by other nationalities. Pincrete (talk) 18:06, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Scandinavia and Nordic is NOT interchangeable or a synonym

I would change this myself but there are so many references in the article that I don’t know which I can delete. Me personally I would delete them All because they are referencing something incorrect. I feel like this page could be more accurate. Not sure why Iceland and Finland are mentioned as Scandinavian when they are not. Altogether super confusing. :( who made those edits? There is a lot that could be improved which is a shame. https://www.tripsavvy.com/difference-between-scandinavian-and-nordic-1626695 Bigbotnot2 (talk) 16:54, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree that there were too many refs in the section Scandinavia#Use of Nordic countries vs. Scandinavia, and I already removed some. By far the best reference currently in the article is Knut Helle's Introduction of the Cambridge History of Scandinavia, Vol.1. It gives a very thorough discussion about the term Scandinavia. Here's the part comparing it with the term 'Nordic'/'Norden':

The term Norden has not so far taken root in English. The tendency has rather been to expand the concept of Scandinavia to include all the communities which conceive of themselves as ‘Nordic’. This has been helped by the fact that these communities, notwithstanding their internal differences, show a common geographical, historical and socio-cultural distinctness from the rest of Europe. The Scandinavia of this title , then, stands for what the Scandinavians themselves call Norden/Pohjola/Norðurlond. In the following historical representation the terms Scandinavia and Scandinavian will be used in this wide sense. We find it convenient to use the adjectives ‘Scandinavian’ and ‘Nordic’ more or less synonymously

Its not wrong, its just different from how the Nordic people themselves use the term. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 17:41, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Yeah as a nordic and scandinavian person I found this incorrect from common usage. Could be perhaps noted somewhere as online I see a lot of confusion? Maybe it could be mentioned how Scandinavians and Nordics do it because I know some Icelandic people who don't want to be called Scandinavia and feel pretty strongly about it. Which is understandable knowing the history. I feel, although it may not be factually correct, it is what is taught in those regions and by the people. And to be honest a lot of things are maybe factually incorrect in everyday life but we still use it anyway. I did notice you did change so so thank you for that, it is already looking better :) Bigbotnot2 (talk) 17:52, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
"Local" usage is already included in the article in the use of Nordic countries vs Scandinavia section. TylerBurden (talk) 20:31, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
I have reread the page and it doesn’t not specify it. It’s probably there but I cannot see it would you mind showing me which part?
also I am a little confused what this is about “Usage in English is different from usage in the Scandinavian languages themselves (which use Scandinavia in the narrow meaning), and by the fact that the question of whether a country belongs to Scandinavia is politicised.”
Am I able to get a little clarification? What does it mean by narrow meaning? Scandinavians and Nordics alike all agree on who is in Scandinavia and who is in the Nordics. It’s the rest of the world that disagrees. Bigbotnot2 (talk) 21:21, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the part: The term Scandinavia (sometimes specified in English as Continental Scandinavia or mainland Scandinavia) is ordinarily used locally for Denmark, Norway and Sweden as a subset of the Nordic countries (known in Norwegian, Danish, and Swedish as Norden; Finnish: Pohjoismaat, Icelandic: Norðurlöndin, Faroese: Norðurlond). I already did some work in the article, but will try to fix the rest of that section later today. I'll probably base my edits on the book Contesting Nordicness: From Scandinavianism to the Nordic Brand. (https://library.oapen.org/handle/20.500.12657/52267) Jähmefyysikko (talk) 09:02, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Can I see the reference for continental Scandinavia and mainland Scandinavia as no one I've seen has used this. From what I can see online continental Scandinavia is about some car tyres and mainland Scandinavia is about the Scandinavian peninsula which of course doesn't include Denmark. That book seems like a solid reference, had a read through Bigbotnot2 (talk) 17:55, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
I think it is better to rewrite the section. Here's what I am thinking: my sandbox. That still needs some work on the sourcing. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 18:10, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
This seems way better than what is there currently. Thank you for working it! Bigbotnot2 (talk) 18:33, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Scandinavian

In the section Different meanings of the term Scandinavian (permalink) there's the following text:

In the ethnic or cultural sense the term Scandinavian traditionally refers to speakers of Scandinavian languages, who are mainly descendants of the peoples historically known as Norsemen, but also to some extent of immigrants and others who have been assimilated into that culture and language. In this sense the term refers primarily to native Danes, Norwegians and Swedes as well as descendants of Scandinavian settlers such as the Icelanders and the Faroese. The term is also used in this ethnic sense, to refer to the modern descendants of the Norse, in studies of linguistics and culture.

The references give examples of usage, but do not actually discuss the term at any length. There's nothing about immigrants and assimilation. This seems like original research. The next paragraph is bit similar, giving a commentary about short dictionary definitions.

Then there's a paragraph about Sami peoples, specifically about the term 'Scandinavian' being applied to them. I skimmed the first reference, and found no discussion at all about the term 'Scandinavian'. The second reference I cannot fully access, but I suspect the same is true there. At least the snippets in Google Books don't give relevant results for 'Scandinavian'.

To me it seems better to discuss Scandinavia and Scandinavian simultaneously, without devoting a separate section for the adjective. Especially if the section is difficult to source. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 14:45, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree that the section appears to be largely WP:OR and is anyway fairly muddled. I'm not what, if anything, is rescueable. Pincrete (talk) 08:04, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

The references to the section show that the settlers in Iceland and the Faroe Islands originated from Scandinavia. But they don't show that Iceland and the Faroe Islands are part of Scandinavia. This is similar to suggesting that the USA is part of Europe, because most of the current population has European ancestry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.23.239.207 (talk) 03:21, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

They are not universally accepted as part of Scandinavia, which the article makes quite clear I would think. TylerBurden (talk) 20:08, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Unhelpful infobox image

The satellite photograph that is the current infobox image is not helpful at all. Even with prior knowledge of the region, it's impossible to distinguish cloud cover from snow to come up with a meaningful understanding of what Scandinavia is from that photo. A map would be much more useful. 38.49.72.163 (talk) 07:01, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

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