| Revision as of 02:39, 28 January 2010 editFatehji (talk | contribs)365 edits →Kundalini Yoga Benefits, Not Secret or Harmful, Stop the Bigotry: commenting out excessive talk and warring. not conducive to getting down to a solution.← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 16:51, 28 October 2024 edit undo144.71.77.242 (talk) →Lead of this article needs to highlight controversy: copy edit | ||
| (384 intermediate revisions by 68 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
| {{Talk header}} | |||
| {{talkheader|search=yes}} | |||
| {{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=C|1= | ||
| {{WikiProject |
{{WikiProject Yoga|importance=high}} | ||
| {{WikiProject Hinduism|importance=high}} | |||
| {{WikiProject Spirituality|importance=Low}} | |||
| {{WikiProject Alternative Views|importance=High}} | |||
| {{WikiProject Skepticism|importance=High|attention=y}} | |||
| {{WikiProject Alternative medicine}} | |||
| {{WikiProject Altered States of Consciousness|importance=High}} | |||
| }} | |||
| {{archives|search=yes}} | |||
| {{Broken anchors|links= | |||
| * <nowiki>]</nowiki> The anchor (#The Five Prāṇas) is no longer available because it was ] before. <!-- {"title":"The Five Prāṇas","appear":{"revid":398824950,"parentid":391887042,"timestamp":"2010-11-25T16:10:17Z","replaced_anchors":{"The Five Pranas":"The Five Prāṇas"},"removed_section_titles":,"added_section_titles":},"disappear":{"revid":480116461,"parentid":480116081,"timestamp":"2012-03-04T08:57:08Z","removed_section_titles":,"added_section_titles":},"very_different":false,"rename_to":"Prāṇas"} --> | |||
| }} | |||
| ==Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment== | |||
| == "Kundalini Syndrome" and Kundalini Yoga == | |||
| ] This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2018-10-02">2 October 2018</span> and <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2018-12-18">18 December 2018</span>. Further details are available ]. Peer reviewers: ]. | |||
| The occurrence of various problems with relation to practice of Kundalini Yoga is well documented. From what I was able to understand, the Western approach considers that spiritual progress can be achieved through the practices alone, but the Hindu tradition considers practices only as a part of the preparation of the body, where the actual rise of the Kundalini is achieved through the grace of the Gurudev (blessing), which must be a living Self-Realized master. The methods for preparation of the body were in fact held secret in order to protect people from hurting themselves, by trying things for which they had no deeper understanding, and to protect the name and the value of Yoga. Various stories in the West arose why the methods are secret. Some claimed that great (supernatural) powers can be achieved through practice of Kriya Yoga and that methods were secret for selfish reasons. In the 19th century many Yogis in India were also tortured to death by westerns to reveal the secret of their powers. (See reports by Elisabeth Haich.) That is another reason, why the methods were held secret. But one will not and can not attain any real progress or power though the practices alone. This happens only through the Grace of God alone and that grace can not be extorted. | |||
| According to Hinduism practice of various methods can deliver progress only up to a certain level beyond which a living Spiritual Master becomes a necessity. Trying to force the results, is when the problems arise. Various methods require years of practice before next level can be considered. Jumping forward without guidance can lead to disaster. It is important to understand that the aim of the Kundalini Yoga is not to acquire various powers (which are considered vice on the spiritual path), but to achieve moksha and union with God. Abuse of siddhis has grave karmic consequences. This all must be viewed in the light of teaching known from all holly books, Bible, Koran, Bhagavad Gita,... <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 08:22, 19 January 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| {{small|Above undated message substituted from ] by ] (]) 01:55, 17 January 2022 (UTC)}} | |||
| Further on the topic of benefits of Kundalini Yoga and supposed dangers of practice. Many teachers will use the word Kundalini to emphasize something that is to be more effective practice than other to make it more attractive on the market. On each level of spiritual development different methods apply. It is true that even a prayer is a start, meditation is better, and so on... Spiritual development at any speed eventually leads to Kundalini awakening. If one takes smaller steps, they are safer and more people can harvest more benefits with less risk. Taking larger steps and more demanding techniques leads to greater benefits but also risks. At some point one eventually needs a Spiritual Master to be able to continue. Now, we cannot take the good results of the simple methods and advertise the more complex method as suitable for the general public. Somehow, a balance must be found so that everything that people stuffed under the word "Kundalini" still makes sense. ] (]) 21:49, 23 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| == Please discuss changes here first... == | |||
| This is an topic article where opinions and the level of knowledge vary. As a co-editor of this page, I have striven to include and support statements made here from a wide variety of printed sources written in English, and use recent historical evidence about the teaching of Kundalini Yoga as it is currently recognized by Western Audiences. Due to a variety of roots of teachings and information, and sources which use the same name to describe different things, information can vary. Additionally, some people, groups and religions may have strong POVs around this topic. | |||
| :I have nominated that your references to "]" on the ] page be dropped entirely. The concept itself is pseudo-scientific and baseless. The article you link to on Misplaced Pages is already flagged as needing professional verification, and thus is not a good source reference to be used on other pages. "Kundalini Syndrome" mainly refers to changes in "Kundalini Energy", and NOT the YOGA FORM. Any reference to Yoga + Kundalini Syndrome do not EVER specify any particular system of yoga, and in fact yoga as a spiritual practice leading to kundalini syndrome is hypothetical and listed as only one possible cause out of many different potential instances. Therefore any link to Kundalini Yoga directly is very very tenuous and only is mistaken this way because of the name similarities. Stop revising the history and re-placing this in the top paragraphs. This does Yoga as a whole and Kundalini Yoga no service and is misleading. If you replace it here, you would have to place it on EVERY YOGA PAGE and EVERY SPIRITUAL DISCIPLINE page, including martial arts, qi gong, etc. etc.. It makes no sense. This is a very rare "condition" of "symptoms" that have no record of "permanent mental damage" and mostly leads to happiness and greater self-awareness when it occurs. Your reference by your teacher is not scientific, nor legitimate and only creates confusion. If you want to discuss why a 1st source spiritual teacher warning about mental damage is not legitimate, that can be discussed, however, its self-evident he is not a doctor, nor does he support his claim with ANY relevant data. You simply pulled this quote to cherry pick what you wanted to promote - his book has nothing to do with "Kundalini syndrome". In fact, he says in his own Guru's words that: "Kundalini is the divine mother. A true mother never causes harm or does anything bad to her children." (quoted from your same book from your source, Paramhans Swami Maheshwarananda, page 49). According to his view true kundalini awakening has no side effects other than pure joy, pure knowledge and pure love.] (]) 13:42, 27 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| Please follow the good faith tenets of Misplaced Pages and post and discuss changes here first so that if additions are helpful and appropriate, we can continue to co-craft and make this article better. | |||
| :The problem with the logic you present is multi-fold. The problem I see today is any pseudoscientist can write a book making some obscure claims. Then an uneducated person can pick this up and read it, and believe it without having the opposite side of the story, or having the experience themselves and thus end up spreading negative beliefs widely with no reference for how obscure they are. You even say yourself a few times you "believe" it to be wide spread. But those books do not offer that, and as such, you should not take it upon yourself to judge how important this is to other people, "as a warning" you say. Your sources are tenuous at best, the article you refernce on Wiki has been flagged for needing further verification and professional validation - which has not happened. So, I would not link to that - the source is unprofessional.] (]) 13:42, 27 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| Just to establish a baseline: This is an article about "Kundalini Yoga", and not necessarily a page about kundalini energy, religion, esoteric forms of kundalini rising, and not necessarily about personal spiritual experiences. | |||
| :Additionally, the whole concept of linking this so called "syndrome" to the yoga itself is an error in thinking. The syndrome refers to the dormant energy in all humans="kundalini". But Kundalini Yoga is just one yoga, like Raja or Hatha, and - like all yogas - they are all exercises and meditations that work with the Kundalini energy. It is the goal of all yogas to "raise the kundalini"(awareness). So, the "syndrome" actually refers to all spiritual practices. It only happens to be coined this way because some psuedoscientist made it up. It has nothing directly to do with "Kundalini Yoga".] (]) 00:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| We are always looking for good, cohesive editorial input. If you wish to improve the framework of this page, please do so, but please be prepared to discuss changes before posting. Please back up your sources, as well as provide reasoning for requesting new sections or excluding existing sections. Thank you kindly. +] (]) 21:59, 20 January 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == Kundalini Yoga Benefits == | |||
| <!-- COMMENTING OUT UNDUE WARRING, DOESN'T ADD TO THIRD PARTY REQUEST --> | |||
| <!-- I respectfully disagree completely. This is exactly what I would call misinformation, or misdirection of information. The only thing not making sense is your argument. First of all, you keep claiming this Syndrome is well documented, yet you offer no sources. I have counter sourced you with a US Congressional resolution recognizing its wide range of benefits, and also books by Doctors of all the benefits of the systems. There is an extremely healthy practice of Kundalini Yoga in the US where many people in hospitals, schools and work are helped with their problems with this yoga. No one has every developed "mental damage" from this style through practice that is "widely documented from a legitimate source. In fact, if anything it is widely used to heal mental damage, not cause it! You should try it, because it is known by experience and not talk, and it could help you.] (]) 06:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| == Yogi Bhajan references belong in this page == | |||
| Here's where you really mislead and misdirect. ALL YOGA forms work towards raising of the Kundalini energy. Kundalini doesn't have a copyright by Hindus (which you've claimed that over and over again) You claim that one cannot understand or benefit from Kundalini Yoga because it must be taught by a Spiritual master or given by a blessing of God... Which GOD do you mean exactly? (I assume you mean a Hindu one, because actually Yogi Bhajan was a Master of Kundalini Yoga at age 16, and in Sikh teachings, there is only One GOD, and that GOD is simultaneously in everyone, so everyone has the right to self-initiate themselves into the practice). Anything like claiming that a Hindu God only can give benefits is the very definition of a bigotry. To the contrary of what you claim, this system, is already being widely taught and the benefits are safe and countless! You cannot copyright enlightenment, love, or healing. You can't copyright Yoga. It's shown that this system can be practiced by anyone of any age and they can have huge benefits in short times.] (]) 06:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| As a PhD student who has been studying yoga for the past half year, particularly Kundalini Yoga as it is currently practiced in the United States, I feel that the attempts to remove Yogi Bhajan from this page must be motivated by something other than a concern for factual accuracy. Furthermore, accusations that 3HO is a "cult" or anything to that effect are simply groundless, if not slanderous, and completely inconsistent with my experience with the wonderful people involved with that organization. | |||
| This in effect is a tactic to keep the benefits of the practice under a hegemony of Brahmin (hindu elite priest culture) beliefs. Yet, this practice has enormous and considerable benefits and that was proven and shown by Yogi Bhajan and the many (100,000 or more) practitioners of Kundalini Yoga as Taught by Yogi Bhajan in the US. The US Government even recognized his teachings and their benefits on a list that only includes Yogi Bhajan, Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa, and John Pope Paul II! How dare you claim this isn't legitimate? How can you continue to refute the proof to the contrary of what you claim?] (]) 06:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| However one might feel about him, Yogi Bhajan was pivotal for the popularization of Kundalini Yoga in the United States and throughout the world, and has left an indelible mark on how it is currently practiced. According to Yoga Journal, 3HO, the organization started by Yogi Bhajan and which continues his work, Currently oversees 300 Kundalini Yoga centers worldwide: | |||
| However, I can see why you act this way, because when Yogi Bhajan left India to teach the system he was cursed, slandered, and threatened with his life by many Hindu yogis who did not want the secrets revealed. BUT what you have refused to understand is that the cat is out of the bag. Once out, it cannot be put back in. You cannot scare people to avoid the practice of this form of yoga. It has already been revealed and opened to the public, and the many benefits are proven: that it is healthy and safe for of self-improvement and equalizes power of people by giving them the tools they need to succeed. That is what you fear, it would appear. If one would logically trace your motives it seems you are trying to say the Hindu practice is the only legitimate way and anyone else who teaches it outside of Hinduism will be harmed... That's just so misleading and untrue, and it's so obvious where you are coming from. Otherwise you wouldn't keep removing the Sikh references being made on the intro paragraphs.] (]) 06:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| http://www.yogajournal.com/basics/1336 | |||
| Therefore, excluding Yogi Bhajan from the page simply distorts its accuracy, and removing any explanation of Yogi Bhajan's significance to the contemporary practice of Kundalini Yogi only distorts it further. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 00:55, 4 March 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| Certainly Kundalini Yoga is a strong style, and people undergo changes and grow from it, and the help of a teacher overseeing it is valuable addition, not a requirement. It helps in guidance... The lack of which doesn't cause 'mental illness syndromes'. It's all open to all now, and it's safe, and because it's needed to help people of this time. Meditation and the Kriyas of Kundalini Yoga teaches us that the many secrets can be practiced by anyone of any age - proven time and time again in the US. Your argument comes from an old religious scare tactic, and you're not fooling anyone.] (]) 06:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| :Question: How can edits be adjusted to improve article without continuing harassment from Misplaced Pages users such as Gatoclass? Main gripe seems to be that some paragraphs appear as "self-promotional", but he won't clarify or elucidate, and is not willing to work to reach consensus with current authors despite numerous attempts. Therefore it is up to current authors to make improvement in lieu of constructive aid from other Misplaced Pages users.] (]) 00:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC) | |||
| Additionally you have made no efforts to reference your claims. You use only a single source book, which is a primary source teaching, and therefore non-verifiable. 4 citations to 1 book, and just 2 pages, shows me you have limited knowledge on the subject, and you choose only 1 negative warning out of an entire book promoting the benefits of the yoga... This makes your "pull-quote" suspect. ADDITIONALLY, others posts by you about Paramhans Swami Maheshwarananda have been flagged as advertising and lacking proper citation. This is not your first issue relying on your opinion and not facts. Your citations and background on this are weak and your arguments are lacking citation and legitimate proof on any modern "widespread" "mental" "syndromes" that are currently injuring all sorts of practitioners of Kundalini yoga. This is simply ignorant speaking and thinking... and the only people you are injuring are the people who would see this page and help themselves by practicing a healthy and healing style of yoga. This is not advertising. I'm just saying the hundred of thousands of benefits outweigh any negatives, and it should be reflected as such in the descriptions. Additionally it should be reflected that the Sikh and Western practice is equally legitimate as any Hindu practice. Yoga is beyond religion, and you are trying to use religion to hijack yoga, and that is completely elitist and bigoted.] (]) 06:42, 25 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| ::You've been responded to multiple times on this and you were almost banned when you were editing as {{U|Fatehji}} (which was confirmed by Checkuser), but you conveniently stopped using that account and started using this. You are the one that's being disruptive here by ] to any feedback. I'm sorry, but it's beyond the point where anyone else can keep explaining to you. —]''']''' 02:51, 31 July 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :I beg your pardon. Yoga is about making friends. So how are you comming along? Seems to me you ended before you started. About references, The Kundalini Syndrome page contains plenty of references. You see, you can not get a book published on the subject if there is only one case in a million. There has to be a certain population. About Hindu, Yoga comes from India and India has legal copyright on Yoga. Sikhism is part of Hinduism. I also read the Bible and there you can read, there is only one God. We are always talking about the same one. About self initiation, we disagree, but all views have the right to be presented and that is why Yogi Bhajan has its own topic. But to push the views of Yoga Bhajan beyond that and make it seem general would not be appropriate. That would be POV. Saying that Yoga can not be owned by anyone is correct. The problem is only what that is, what is that truth!! Maybe it is advertised as (wine) Yoga, but that is not Yoga? Different people say different things. | |||
| : Spiff, I used Fatehji at a work terminal when I didn't recall my Roger password a very long time ago, which I have already explained previously – and I never it used again. At that time I was not even aware of what "spoofing" was. What you are doing is clearly using this past mistake as some kind of leverage to hammer in a complete deletion of Yogi Bhajan from this article, and ignore all of the gathered consensus. It's a very poor excuse to use to avoid dialogue about the changes - a very cheap and easy escape - and you know it, so get over it. I'm not interested in arguing about it. This article is clearly not complete without Yogi Bhajan mentioned in it, and there is consensus from various authors, besides myself. I would like to work towards improving it and writing it, so use your common sense instead of your emotions, and stop deleting it completely without cause or discussion.] (]) 12:28, 11 August 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :You said "this system, is already being widely taught and the benefits are safe and countless". What system? There is no definition about what is Kundalini Yoga practice except according to what individual teachers define. "However, I can see why you act this way, because when Yogi Bhajan left India to teach the system he was cursed" I am sorry to hear that, but I would only like to retain both views in the article. You have the right to present your case and should not take that same right from others. As I said not all people agree with the idea of evil "brahmins". The term Kundalini Yoga is used for so many things that it is impossible to say neither, that it is Good or Bad. But some people who have used that name, have practiced things which harmed them. The Kundalini Yoga practice as advertised by Yogi Bhajan, may be as you presented it. I can not know and would not try to judge it. About reference to Kundalini Syndrome. If you really think it is necessary we can copy some of the Kundalini Syndrome article to Kundalini Yoga page, so that different issues will be properly referenced. About hundred of thousands of benefits outweigh any negatives: Benefits of what? We don't even know, if we are talking about the same thing. It is my view that Kundalini Syndrome article is well documented and addresses a real problem that has surfaced in the society. Maybe Yoga Bhajan claims the expression "Kundalini Yoga" for himself and that's why we have a problem? We could write: Kundalini Yoga as though by Yogi Bhajan claims to have this properties. Kundalini Yoga as though by ... claims to have this properties and so on. But writing in general would not be accurate because the diversity is too grand. That is why the paragraph starts: In Hindu tradition, the beliefs are like this. (Because in other traditions the views are so different!) We can add: These claims are not supported by Sikh named Yogi Bhajan which... ] (]) 13:31, 25 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| New edits created to make the Yogi Bhajan paragraph less "marketing"-driven in tone. Assistance on specific adjustments welcome to be discussed here. See the edits page for the changes.] (]) 15:07, 11 August 2012 (UTC) | |||
| NO. I beg your pardon. First of all, I'm not here to 'make friends'. I'm here to make sure this article is accurate and the information is legitimate. You make outlandish claims and its impossible to reach a resolution with you because you are acting like a classic bigot and you have your own agenda, which you have made very clear. You are making me upset because you constantly remove references to Sikh religion in this post and in other posts. I would take the time to refute all of your beliefs, but I don't see you will change. Others have tried, and you just tell your own story.. So let me at least address a couple points as a matter of record because they are so completely wrong. | |||
| :This is getting incredibly ridiculous. You have been socking and using Misplaced Pages for blatant POV pushing and spamming. This has to stop. —]''']''' 18:16, 21 August 2012 (UTC) | |||
| 1A) Your erroneous and blind claim that the Kundalini Syndrome page on Wiki contains plenty of references. It first of all has already been flagged as needing a professional verification. Can you not clearly see that box at the top of the page? It means, the info is SUSPECT or UNPROFESSIONAL. It uses basically 2 references over and over again, and just because it cites the same book 2 dozen times does not make it more 'prevalent and widespread'. Therefore, I don't need to verify that your source is poor, and unprofessional at best. Your only argument seems to be that because something is published, then that means that it must be widespread. That logic has no basis in reality. If I publish a book about Hindus having 3-headed toilet scrubbers as babies, then that doesn't mean it's widespread - it may have only happened once (and I think I know where). | |||
| That's total BS. What's ridiculous is your inability to edit, compromise or even discuss changes. I've made hundreds of revisions and edits to this page, and all you and your cohorts and collaborators have ever done is A) never *once* discuss changes, B) never once try to compromise or follow consensus guidelines, and C) knee-jerk auto-delete any mention of Yogi Bhajan from this page. WTF, and SHAME on you. You are not following guidelines at all, and warring. BS. ] (]) 04:23, 7 September 2012 (UTC) | |||
| 1B) That "Kundalini Syndrome" (which should always be quoted because it's not a real syndrome... "Syndrome" of What Exactly?) has any relationship to Kundalini Yoga itself, besides in name is sketchy. The term "Kundalini" itself refers to the energy within all humans, and all yoga forms work to raise this energy to raise awareness. You may as well call it "Awareness Syndrome". And you may as well post your warning at the top of all the different Yoga pages, because they all work to raise Kundalini energy. Good luck getting that through - don't know why you are picking just Kundalini Yoga, because it is only similar in name. | |||
| :Hey Spaceman, you can't just keep undoing the page and say "more spamming". that's an intentional mischaracterization of editing work I'm trying to do. It obviously shows you have not read the changes, nor do you have any interest in working towards a working version. How long will you keep ignoring the facts and just deleting changes? Your continuing actions and refusal to work towards a working compromise make your entire purpose and all of your actions highly suspect.] (]) 17:56, 12 September 2012 (UTC) | |||
| 2) Your outlandish claims that Hinduism has a "Copyright" on Yoga!?!?!? Seriously. Yoga is not copyrightable by any religion. That's like saying Jews have a copyright on Jesus. Yoga is not a religion first of all. And any co-opting of yoga by one religion is a seriously bigoted flaw. The Upanishads (yogic texts) do not belong to or are copyrightable to anyone. You are talking about Vedic philosophy so old that it originally was passed on by story and word of mouth before it was even written down. I think that may be beyond the reach of "copyright" at this point. | |||
| ::Fatehji, we've had enough of your incessant POV pushing using multiple socks. Stop. —]''']''' 09:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC) | |||
| 3) This is amazing.. What did you say: "Sikhism is part of Hinduism"??! Wow. You are truly taking your plays from a different book - one that has nothing to do with reality. This is like saying Protestantism is a part of Roman Catholicism. It's downright offensive. First of all, you need to read history before you post such nonsense. For the record, Sikhism is its own independent religion, with its own system of writing and hymns and prayers and separate Gurus and completely different view on God. Sikhism does not preach, but shares and gives unity and the message of One God for the entire brotherhood of man. Don't try to distort history!! Guru Nanak, founder of Sikhism - his first words were: "There is no Hindu, There is no Muslim". That's what you can't stand, and one day you will learn it, but not from me. Study up here: ] and here ]. This is the kind of bigotry that leads to persecution of people and the re-writing of history, very similar to the fascism of Hitler when he denied the authenticity of the Holocaust. Very bad news that you see the world this way. I am sorry for you because I don't know what I can do to help you, besides suggest you educate yourself and start talking to different people than whomever taught you this nonsense. | |||
| ==Various Kundalinis== | |||
| I don't have the time to break down your ignorant and outlandish claims any further. Read about Sikhism, don't trample it at every opportunity. It's difficult for me to discuss things with you seeing your history of postings, and multiple warnings as to your many blatant editing wars. You have been warned numerous times, but you don't change. You have tried to erase Sikh references in other articles in the past. It's all a trail of nonsense that I can't support. And on top of it, I don't expect you to understand what I am saying, which is unfortunate. | |||
| What's not so clear in the article is that Kundalini yoga (or is it "Yoga" with a capital Y?) can mean several different things, including: | |||
| *The ] of that name | |||
| *Any (and—according to the article in its current iteration—''every'') yoga practice that taps into ] energy | |||
| *The Kundalini yoga (with a "y"?) as described by ] in the 1930s | |||
| *The Kundalini Yoga (with a "Y"?) as described by ] in the 1960s and is popular in the west today | |||
| Because when someone talks about "Kundalini yoga" they might be refering to one, some, all or none of these things, this article needs to reflect that. ] (]) 02:48, 24 August 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :Thanks Morgan. One of the first and only people to raise a legitimate discussion on this page<s>.</s> '''(whew!).''' <s>How c</s> | |||
| The main problem with all of your arguments is that you see Hinduism as the beginning of everything and nothing outside of it. This is called BIGOTRY. I could just as well say:"In Sikhism kundalini yoga is seen this way, but in some other views, like Hinduism, it is not to be shared by anyone..." You always want to put your story as primary with the implication that other stories are secondary, in your editing tone and revisions this comes up again and again. You even prove it with your crazy agenda and statements above. You somehow believe that the Hindu view on Kundalini is the primal and accurate one, but there is no such thing as accuracy here. It's interpreted differently by each teacher and shifts based on that teachers knowledge. That's why when Yogi Bhajan made it available to all, he codified it into a system that is not changeable. You claim you don't know about it - that's your issue - but it's what all other people know. He legitimatized it and made it a public system, not hidden away as in the past. That was his great achievement, and thus, this is the real Kundalini yoga as people practice it widely today. If any other form is secret, then you can end the discussion right now, because it's secret. But I will talk about the version that everyone else is practicing (which is the same Kundalini Yoga) just not secret. And this was a big change and revolution in the style, so it is very important to mention that upfront. | |||
| ::'''C'''an we go about making this clear'''er'''? I agree it would help to clarify <s>it</s> '''this page''' somehow''', although I think this page is about the yoga'''. Also, the Kundalini yoga (Sivananda) and Kundalini Yoga (Yogi Bhajan) are very close, and at least have the same root. Yogi Bhajan's expansion of it is much more widespread and accepted in the West, which historically, is more significant, I'd suppose. I'm not sure exactly what others think is marketing about that. Perhaps you can help with the jerks who auto-delete any mention of him. ] (]) 04:29 '''& 05:01''', 7 September 2012 (UTC) | |||
| And additionally, Misplaced Pages is meant to be neutral, so I will always talk about one religion on equal level with another religion. So, stop erasing references to Sikhism like you do over and over again. You've done in other articles and been warned for previously! Educate yourself first. Sikhism and Hinduism are equal. Sleep on that. | |||
| ::: BTW, thanks for your edits. No one else has been willing to go into the actual text, read it, or offer intelligent edits for along time... I'd be happy to take specific advice and work with you to make this page better. ] (]) 05:01, 7 September 2012 (UTC) | |||
| It would be nice to understand your fundamental gripe. Obviously you have been taught incorrectly, but what is your agenda and mission to remove Sikh references from Kundalini Yoga when it is practiced all over the world? Kundalini Yoga is all over the United States and the World being practiced safely, without any record of this so called "Kundalini Syndrome". Your negative references do Kundalini yoga no aid or assistance... So what is your ultimate goal - to put Kundalini Yoga back into a box and hide it away from everyone?? Sorry, but it's too late. We have an entirely published Kundalini Yoga system here in the West... over 100 manuals. It is categorized, systematized, and it is printed widely and recognized everywhere. And it is shared freely. And it won't ever be hidden again by any big religious group, or one small persons agenda.] (]) 23:24, 25 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| ::::I think it is significant that the Upanishad is called "Yoga-Kundalini Upanishad", not "Kundalini-Yoga Upanishad". This title seems to suggest "this is the Yoga Upanishad called 'Kundalini'", not "an Upanishad on Kundalini-Yoga". I have so far failed to find the term "Kundalini-Yoga" in any Sanskrit text (but I am just doing online searches, I am sure it exists somewhere). The texts usually cited as early references for the ''concept'' seem to use ''kundali'', not ''kundalini'', and they are Tantra texts, not Yoga. The first use of "kundalini" in the context of Yoga may be in ] (13th c.?), but this needs verification (I have so far not found an online copy of this text). | |||
| : "Kundalini Yoga, because it is only similar in name." It is important to mentioned that problems arise specifically with relation to Kundalini Yoga, because that it is what the all three "references" talk about (Scotton, Kason and Maheshewarnanda). Typically Kundalini Yoga name is used with more advanced methods of Yoga or as you might say, advanced spiritual practice. If Yogi Bhajan used this name to teach less intense methods than this does not apply to his school. Yoga is Copyrightable for practical reasons. Because its name and features have been used modified and adapted for just about anything, causing harm both to individuals and to the name of Yoga. The knowledge of Yoga in its pure form was communicated (according to Hinduism) from Shiva to Parvati. There is no improvement possible above perfection. We can present the subject differently, but the very methods and practice remain the same. For this reason, India will copyright all original Yogic Asanas and other practices, not to claim ownership, but to prevent them from being abused and charged for by third parties looking to earn a buck in the same way that US corporations tried to patent the DNA of Basmati rice. All adaptions of Yoga which are not first hand (God to man) are not really Yoga and the results of the practices will not give that what the original would. About Sikhism. The religion has its own name for a purpose, if you dont like it to be called a part of Hinduism, no problem. I can not find or remember any edits of mine on the topic of Sikhism. I think Sikhism is a fine religion and I have no objections. If I removed the Sikh word from the article it was not against the Sikh, but because either the content was not referenced or you modified referenced content so that it was no longer according to the reference or because you equated Yogi Bhajan as the representative of all Sikhs (which even according to your writing on the talk page is not true). Yogi Bhajan comes from a Sikh background, but he is not representative of the Sikh. Hinduism is put up front because Yoga comes from Shiva and Shiva is a God in Hinudism (one from the holy trinity which makes up the One). Therefore, it is normal that original and first sources are put up front. The different weights in the articles in general are always given to groups which have more followers and Hinduism has more followers than Sikhism. That is why Hindu tradition is mentioned first, and then followed by the Sikh. What Yogi Bhajan made public I dont know, but I can tell you that anything publicly available today does not cover 1% of the knowledge still hidden. Therefore Yogi Bhajan made public some Yogic methods, which obviously made many people happy and he called them Kundalini Yoga. The types of methods practiced must always be matched with the level of spiritual development. One way to do that is to take lowest common denominator and make them suitable for everybody. This does not mean that these methods are the final and the only way to reach the goal. They will provide benefit and progress until a certain level is reached, where something more would be needed to make further progress, but for many they might be completely sufficient for one life time. I dont have a personal agenda, other than to present all the views. I understand that Hindu view on the practices of Yogi Bhajan is not positive in certain senses and that this is the reason for the conflict that we have editing this page. For this reason, you would like to see a part of the Hindu view erased and hidden. One way or the other, both views must remain public because both come with sufficient background and weight so that they deserved to be published. If they are conflicting, it is not our job or the job of Wiki to decide who is right. All have the right to present their points, even if conflicting. ] (]) 08:40, 27 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| :::''Kundalini Yoga'' now refers to the 3HO school of meditation, but the term has a history of course, being in use since at least 1919, possibly a few decades longer (by the Theosophic Society). Apparently it first came to be used as a synonym of ''Laya Yoga'' in this context, which seems to refer to any type of "Tantric Yoga", viz. the syncretism of the schools of Tantrism and Yoga that developed since ca. the 15th century. But this is just the ''history'' of the term, it isn't what the term now refers to. --] <small>]</small> 12:01, 29 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
| OK. You are wrong here on several points. Again... | |||
| :After taking a step back from the Kundalini pages for a while, I'm focusing efforts on regular cleanup of each article's opening paragraph—] and ]—in hopes that these terms and their many meanings remain distinct and clear. ] (]) 02:24, 8 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| :It is on you to prove the "copyright of Yoga" by one religion or that "God gave yoga to man" and this is the only authentic form of yoga. The essential problem with this argument is that is is a BELIEF. For the purposes of the WIKIpedia, you need a verifiable source. Since this unverifiable, it has no place on this site. You can say that all you want on a blog or other forum, but here it must be verified. Your only argument is that India, and a God, copyrighted on Yoga and Asana. Yet Yoga has been passed on from man to woman to man to be shared for all, and it doesn't belong to one man or religion or god. It has evolved as it grew, through texts and over the years passed on by word of mouth and updated constantly. Yoga is always evolving. It is the nature of Yoga. You can trace this back to the Veda, Upanishads, Patanjali's Sutras, and Kundalini Shastras, but you cannot ever trace it back to a God. Sorry, as nice as that would be, it is actually truly scary thinking. This is how wars are started by ignorance and bigotry of this level. In this thinking, you could say I suppose that Hindu God has a copyright on man as well... So, therefore any Hindu can kill any other person without repercussion because Hindus were here "first" and any other human is just an incorrect copyright violation. Sorry, but this logic will never hold up on any level, neither legal, nor spiritual. However, if you can prove that a Hindu God gave Yoga to man, and some original copy of it exists somewhere, cite the proof.--] (]) 16:44, 27 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| I think we can all agree that Kundalini Yoga is NOT based on Sivananda's book. Nowhere in the book Kundalini Yoga does Swami Sivananda even claim his writings are original, but rather a recapitulation of ancient techniques. Don't believe me? Download the book ($1 on Amazon). While the phrase "Kundalini Yoga" might first arise here (though 'yoga-kundalini' already existed, which would be the same in an inflected language like Sanskrit), the practices are all older than the book (by hundreds of years mostly) even if they were called laya or tantra. To say that Kundalini Yoga is "Based on a 1935 treatise by Sivananda Saraswati" is incredibly misleading, especially for the opening paragraph of this article. If no one objects, I will remove that sentence, unless someone has a citation for this wonky claim.] (]) 07:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC) | |||
| :2- Again you are mistaking "kundalini energy" with "kundalini yoga". In this syndrome page when they mention "kudanlini" they are specifically NOT talking about "kundalini yoga". Get your facts straight. Open your eyes. "Kundalini energy" and Kundalini Yoga are not interchangeable terms, so keep your reference to "kundalini syndrome" off of this page. Last I will say about it. | |||
| ==The Caduceus is not really a medical icon== | |||
| :3- You said Yogi Bhajan came from a Sikh Background but was not representative of Sikh? Really? Let me educate you: "A deeply devoted Sikh, his inspiration and example motivated thousands to embrace the Sikh way of life. Through his personal efforts, Sikh Dharma was legally incorporated and officially recognized as a religion in the USA in 1971. In 1971, in acknowledgment of his extraordinary impact of spreading the universal message of Sikhism, the president of the SGPC (governing body of Sikh Temples in India), Sant Charan Singh called him the Siri Singh Sahib, Chief Religious and Administrative Authority for the Western Hemisphere, and he was given the responsibility to create a Sikh Ministry in the West by the Akal Takhat, the Sikh seat of religious authority in Amritsar, India. He was honored with the title Bhai Sahib by the Akal Takhat in 1974." - You can check it with the Akal Takhat. | |||
| The following passage of this article as of this writing is refering to a common misconception about the Caduceus. | |||
| "This process can be seen depicted even today in modern medical iconography as two snakes spiraling a central staff, and although the origin of this image is more directly derived from the Caduceus of the Greek god Hermes, it may express the same or a similar principle." | |||
| The Caduceus is a symbol of occultism not of medicing, the rod of Asclepius is a symbol of medicin. | |||
| :4- You claim anything available today doesn't cover 1% of what's secret. really? again, show your proof. Sir John Woodroffe translated the ENTIRE Kundalini Shastras to English in the 19th century. Again, The entire sastras are available in printed form in English - that means 100%. Anything that is still secret his passed on from teacher to student, and Yogi bhajan went to many many teachers and got their secret information and passed it on. So, I would actually say Yogi Bhajan teachings compromise the entire Sastras plus his secrets - probably 99% of the system. Maybe 1% is actually UNKNOWN, or something that he didn't feel appropriate to teach (like the tongue cutting practice, for example) to Westerners. Finally, he became a Master of Kundalini Yoga at age 16. To say that his mastery came with only 1% of knowledge of Kundalini is not based in any kind of reality. As a Master, this implies 100% knowledge and experience. | |||
| For more info on this matter see ] | |||
| I'm not sure what to do in a situation like this nor am i a usualy a contributor to wikipedia , i hope i'm doing this the right way and i beg for forgivness and kind words of correction if i have done this the wrong way. | |||
| :5- Finally, you have clearly admitted that your view is tainted by Hindu view on Yogi Bhajan. The truth is revealed, even though it was clear to me right from the beginning. Now you admit that the "reason for this conflict" is "negative hindu view of yogi bhajan". As they say in the courtroom, "I rest my case, your honor". Additionally, you have stated clearly your bigoted and elitist viewpoint that when one religion is "bigger" than naturally it has the right of presenting something as more important. This could not be further from the truth, although I have never moved your Hindu references or erased them, even though your sources are very primary and not properly legitimate. At the same time, you have erased reference to Sikhism numerous times. Again, all religions are EQUAL. Size does not imply RIGHT. | |||
| --] (]) 05:32, 1 January 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == "To Yoke" + Add "/harness"? == | |||
| Don't claim you want to represent ALL views either, when it's clear you are simply coming from one view point. Your words are important, don't keep writing stuff that simply isn't true - especially about yourself. You will have to live through the mud of your communication, so don't spoil it today. Your words live on forever, especially here on Misplaced Pages.] (]) 14:15, 27 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| --> | |||
| I feel for the opening translation to read "to yoke/harness" as this second term is a much "better" translation as it includes both the literal and mundane meaning in both languages, as well as giving the English audience the unique experience that word "harness" offers in terms of the connotation of wielding/taming and using, which I believe is the meaning trying to be conferred. The literal word for "yoke" in the language of origin may have a similar effect for its speakers/their culture. | |||
| I am not changing your "edits" (or actually, they are not edits, rather simply you just re-post the same thing every time), because of "conflicting views". I am changing them because they are simply not relevant, poorly sourced, and do not add to the topic. It makes no sense to reference a negative single view at the top of the page when this is one small, tiny view or issue which has an unprofessional reference material source This is called undue weighting . Additionally you do not do any service to Misplaced Pages by enforcing what you have admitted to, as your "negative view of Yogi Bhajan", and I have tried to correct the negative bias out of your "edits". Plus, you do not address my points appropriately in reply to talk back discussion as to the validity of your edits, so therefore, I will continue to improve and correct them. ] (]) 15:01, 27 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) 12:10, 29 March 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == I think hindu use of word Yoga should be explained == | |||
| You are continuing to misunderstand what this Encyclopedia is about and how to edit properly, as well as the purpose and scope of references. You have changed back AGAIN, for perhaps the 12th time to the EXACT same sentence which I have rebuffed over and over again in discussions and comments. You are clearly not interested in reaching a consensus with me on this matter. I have shown again and again why your edit was changed, and have added to it, and helped shape it into a better description. You seem to think that once a "reference" is created, it cannot be changed. Sorry, but this is not helping the editing process and reaching a consensus to make an article more legitimate and clear. A reference doesn't mean once you reference something that other editors cannot add onto it to clarify or expand to your edits if it adds to an understanding of the topic. Clearly you have not read the citation and source guides on Misplaced Pages. Please read and study this before you make any more changes. You need to read these: ] ] and ] and ]--] (]) 18:59, 27 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| Even though its not directly related to the subject of the entry I think for the sake of the general reader something should be said about the use of the word yoga as originally meant in India. The Indians recognized four forms of yoga one of which revolves around the stretching and posing which most of the people in the word associate with the word yoga. The stretching and posing is referred to as Hatha yoga iirc. All four types of yoga share similar goals of personal development. My only point here is that the general reader has the word yoga so strongly associated with Hatha yoga that this needs to be cleared up to avoid confusion when discussing Kundalini yoga. I myself have had so much difficulty with this misunderstanding that I usually refer to it as Kundalini meditation just to avoid a pointless discussion about what yoga means. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 11:17, 8 May 2013 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :The main problem is you started this and you tried to remove and water down problems related to the certain practices of Kundalini Yoga. Edits can be expanded, but not in conflict with the meaning in the reference. You can not say, water is pure and dirty at the same time. We can reach a consensus, if you agree to include the reference to "mental damage" and link "Kundalini Syndrome" in the beginning of the article. You have to understand that the paragraph you are attacking, is a rather mild version from the original source and already very much adapted. The point is that traditional Hinduism obviously does not agree with Yogi Bhajan's teachings, at least as you presented them, and that we have to find a way to include both views. There is no consensus possible in the sense of presenting only one combined viewpoint, because the differences are too big. The Wiki references you mention apply to you the same way as they apply to me. All the sources in the paragraph are verifiable and reliable in the context of the subject of this article. If you agree, I can also include direct quotes from the book's.] (]) 20:11, 27 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| :I feel the proper place for a discussion on the term "yoga" would be ]. --] <small>]</small> 11:54, 29 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
| Atma, I am not attacking your "references" nor am I trying to water anything down. In fact, the main dispute is over that I am trying to correct what you have hyped up. I don't understand why you propose this view, but it's not relevant to Kundalini yoga as a primary concern. You may disagree, so I have posted additional references to show that this view is not definitive by any means. I am adding to the paragraph with other references from Hindu teachers - on the same par as your reference's source. You have no right to strike one teachers down, while you revert to solely your own teachers views. | |||
| ==Terms "Kundalini" and "Kundalini Yoga"== | |||
| So this is not by any means as you claim "in conflict with the meaning in reference". It's a new source that expands upon it and offers a different view. You make it sound and (from your actions) appear like once you have added a source, that that is the final word, and no other sources can refute or add to this claim. Perhaps then you should consider that the entire argument, if it is debatable should not be posted right up in the front of the page, but moved down to its own section. Only DUE legitimate claims should be presented in the article as a whole, but certainly in the top of the page, it's essential to provide a due weighted neutral view that can be agreed upon. But for some reason, you don't want to hear any different view, so you removed my references 5 times in one day to the exact same edit you have been running since Jan 18th - over a week ago. Your history shows you don't seem interested in compromise or consensus. This should get you blocked and it also got the page blocked. Now what will you do? We're supposed to work this out by Feb 3rd, and you haven't changed one inch since Jan 18th. Actually, I'd rather get a third party to look at it. Until you can demonstrate change, I believe you've exhausted your range of input into this topic.--] (]) 21:20, 27 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| well, it turns out that "kundalini" emerges as a technical term ''in'' hatha yoga in about the 16th century. As far as I can tell, it was only at the very end of the 19th or the beginning of the 20th that ''laya yoga'' (the later "Kundalini yoga") came to be seen as ''not'' part of Hatha yoga. If we would dig into this, it would presumably emerge that ] had a significant hand in this development. --] <small>]</small> 12:56, 25 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == Request for verification and clean up of disputed content == | |||
| <blockquote> | |||
| {{3O}} | |||
| Hi guys. Thanks for all your great work. It's really appreciated. | |||
| Sorry to bring this to your doorstep, but I have an ongoing dispute situation with a user ] over the content presented at the top of the ] page. Needless to say we got carried away and the page is now blocked until Feb 3rd. My main gripe with this editor is that is an edit warrior - he has done so in his past, and he has not demonstrated an ability of working towards consensus or how to properly reference and edit sentences or concepts. He has reverted numerous edits to his same exact edits, and I have reported him for making 12 or more identical reversions in 8 days (5 of which were today). Additionally, his single point of reference material is primary source. | |||
| Interesting. I seem to recall James Mallinson discussing it the other way around: with the distinct Laya and Hatha schools borrowing from each other forming our modern tangled amalgam. An example being Śavāsana originating in Laya and bleeding into Hatha. Vijñana Bhairava Tantra and other texts like it seem to describe a fairly Hatha-free set of samketas (tantic techniques) based on the Laya concept of dissolution. That said, I could be misinterpreting. Curious to hear any thoughts. I would also love to see some of your info bleed over onto the Nigamananda page too since there is very little mention of his kundalini teachings there. --] <small>]</small> 23 April 2014 <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned"> — Preceding ] comment added 06:10, 24 April 2014 (UTC)</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| The big issue for now is that the editor in question is determined to link "]" with "]". The second point is that he would like to link practice of the form with "permanent mental damage". It's bad enough that he wants to keep this reference up top, but it's also a complete error in linking the two together. "kundalini syndrome" refers to ] energy, and not to the yoga form. Check the page yourself. Even the "kundliani syndrome" page as a whole is marked as unprofessional (needing professional validation). Basically, he is giving this form of yoga a bad name, while referencing and citing material that is tenuous at best. And when I have added in material to refute this, or offer an alternative view, he has straight up deleted my references and citations, while commenting "If you want to change something add your own text and reference." Needless to say, it's been difficult. | |||
| From a summary of one of J Mallinson's lectures: | |||
| My request is, can you give a third party review of this and establish that, on the grounds that "Kundalini Syndrome" refers to a spiritual energy source that can be "spontaneously generated", or "awoken" through any number of spiritual practices, it therefore has no definitive linking with any one style of Yoga. And as such, I propose that: | |||
| "...the earliest texts to teach haṭhayoga (c.11th-13th centuries) shows that in its first formulations it was closely associated with traditional ascetic practice and that the aim of its techniques, which were physical, was to boost the beneficial effects of celibacy (or, at least, continence). Śākta traditions dating to a similar period had developed a system of yoga in which the yogin visualised the rising of Kuṇḍalinī from the base of the spine up through a series of cakras. This Kuṇḍalinī yoga, together with some other techniques developed in a Śākta milieu, was overlaid onto the techniques of haṭhayoga in texts such as the Vivekamārtaṇḍa, Gorakṣaśataka and Haṭhapradīpikā. The haṭhayoga taught in the latter text in particular became definitive and since its composition (c. 1450) Kuṇḍalinī-based haṭhayoga has been the dominant form of haṭhayoga, and indeed yoga more broadly conceived. The co-option of haṭhayoga by a Śākta tradition is representative of both the development within Śāktism of a less exclusive, more universal yoga..." | |||
| *A) Kundalini Yoga is not linked to "Kundalini Syndrome" in word or reference. | |||
| *B) Since "Kundalini Syndrome" itself in a non-professional term with dubious scientific value or validation, that it not be considered a valid reference source (internally) for topics of this nature (otherwise all ] forms, ], and martial arts would also need this "warning"). | |||
| *C) That "Kundalini Syndrome" is only speaking about Kundalini energy, and not directly with the Yoga form by the same name. | |||
| *D) And finally, strike all references to "Kundalini Syndrome" from the Kundalini Yoga pages under the fact that it is misleading, negative and erroneous. | |||
| *E) Additionally, his use of a primary source material for a reference to the practice of the style leading to "permanent brain damage" is from an unscientific and opinion based source, and unreliable because the author would have a conflict of interest, in that his business as a teacher might suffer if people were to go to learn yoga from a source not lead by a "master yogi". Many sources, such as the ones I have added numerous times show that Kundalini Yoga is completely safe, very healing, and can even used for curing mental conditions (not causing them) when practiced correctly by oneself, or under a master teacher.<ref>Swami Sivananda Radha, Kundalini Yoga for the West, timeless, 2004, pages 13, 15, 23</ref><ref>David Shannahoff-Khalsa, Kundalini Yoga Meditation for Complex Psychiatric Disorders: Techniques Specific for Treating the Psychoses, Personality, and Pervasive Development Disorders, 2010</ref><ref>David Shannahoff-Khalsa, Kundalini Yoga Meditation: Techniques Specific for Psychiatric Disorders, Couples Therapy, and Personal Growth, 2007</ref><ref>Congressional Honorary Resolution 521 US Library of Congress</ref> | |||
| The form ''kundali'' exists in Classical Sanskrit (mening "ring, bracelet, coil"). | |||
| Thanks for your attention to this matter, it will be really helpful to have a 3rd party review from a knowledgeable source.</blockquote>--] (]) 21:46, 27 January 2010 (UTC) | |||
| This term seems to arise in at least the 11th century (possibly 8th?) in Tantrism. | |||
| The adoption into Yoga seems to date to between the 13th and 16th centuries (more research needed here). | |||
| By the 16th century, there was a "Yoga-Kundalini Upanishad", but this was still part of Hatha yoga. | |||
| I am still hazy on when "Kundalini yoga" was first coined, perhaps this was in the late 19th century, apparently by interference with Theosophism? The term existed at the very latest in 1919 (still as a synonym of ''laya yoga''?) and seems to have evolved into a school advocated as a standalone type of yoga by 1935, offered commercially (and trademarked) around 1972. --] <small>]</small> 11:52, 29 June 2013 (UTC) | |||
| == Kundalini article == | |||
| ==References== | |||
| <references/> | |||
| The content of following box is <s>]</s>''']''': | |||
| {{user:Jerzy/Box| | |||
| Hi there, please refer to the talk page of the article previously known as kundalini. I have stated that your changes were unnecessary, unhelpful and had no consensus. Out of courtesy I ask that you revert them immediately. Please use the talk page for any further discussion. ] (]) 01:33, 3 October 2013 (UTC) | |||
| : Indeed no longer ], which is now a Dab. ] Rdr's to ], so that is probably the talk page in question. Let's see what the scoop is. <br>--]•] 17:38, 3 October 2013 (UTC)<br> | |||
| }} | |||
| --]•] 17:55 '''&19:43, 3 October 2013 (UTC)<br> | |||
| :: I recall disambiguating "Kundalini", presumbly by converting ] to a Dab page, or (more likely, judging by , doing that and then turning it into a single-topic page with a HatNote to a new Dab page.) That stretch of contribs also indicates concurrent and presumably relevant discussion at ], which a more skilled WP editor probably would have consulted before issuing what is, however politely couched, an ultimatum. I don't recall its substance, but I would suggest you check whether you've considered whatever they and i discussed at the time.<br>--''']•]''' 19:43 '''& 19:46''', 3 October 2013 (UTC)<br> | |||
| == How to protect this page from vandalism == | |||
| Any ideas? We have random ips coming on here to insert their POV against Yogi Bhajan. Nothing wrong with not liking the man, but seriously: this is an encyclopedia, not someone's angry blog. Should the page be locked, or is it easier to just ban the ips as they come up?] (]) 06:19, 7 January 2015 (UTC) | |||
| <br /> | |||
| :Hi, Iṣṭa Devata! Here is a page that provides instructions, as well as a site for leaving a ]. Maybe <nowiki>{{lt|</nowiki>...}} in this case would do the trick, what do you think? There is also ], an introductory dealing with the matter. I hope this helps! Cheers! ] (]) 18:35, 9 January 2015 (UTC) | |||
| == Make this about Yoga, not Yogi Bhajan == | |||
| Half of this page is about Yogi Bhajan and not about kundalini yoga. While the politics of 3HO are interesting and I take a certain pleasure in watching edit wars, all of this is thoroughly spelled out on Yogi Bhajan's wiki page (and 3HO's page). I don't see the purpose of making this article about one yogi instead of making it about a real subject like kundalini yoga, its history and the philosophy and anatomy that accompany it. Yogi Bhajan should be confined to a section or a link for further reading and then this page would stop being vandalized and ruined with copy pasted sikh propaganda against yoga and Yogi Bhajan. That's a subject that can be (and is) discussed on the Sikh pages, Bhajan's page, 3HO's page, etc. | |||
| This page should have sections on subtle anatomy (cakras, nadis, nada, the debate over kundalini's mechanics etc); a history of its development and roots in tantra and hatha with pivotal texts named; how Sivananda, Krisnamacarya, and others addressed kundalini in their teachings and writings; Arthur Avalon's translation efforts; modern superimposed systems like chakra balancing, sound baths, crystal healing, rainbow colors, etcetera; and a much smaller section on it's modern history in the west linking to Bhajan's page if people want to learn more about Western Sikh Dharma Kundalini or "Yogi Bhajan's Kundalini". As it is, this page gives the false impression that what 3HO teaches is the preeminent or normative form of kundalini practice instead of a modern syncretic practice, slightly removed from its Hindu milieu. | |||
| ] (]) 15:55, 10 June 2015 (UTC) | |||
| == External links modified == | |||
| Hello fellow Wikipedians, | |||
| I have just modified one external link on ]. Please take a moment to review . If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes: | |||
| *Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090610044331/http://tobias-lib.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/volltexte/2008/3596/ to http://tobias-lib.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/volltexte/2008/3596/ | |||
| When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. | |||
| {{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}} | |||
| Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 21:19, 8 May 2017 (UTC) | |||
| == "Kundalini yoga is often identified as the most dangerous form of yoga because of the involvement of subtle energies"== | |||
| I'm sorry, what?!? ] (]) 09:06, 16 December 2018 (UTC) | |||
| == Yogi Bhajan Abusive == | |||
| In the Yogi Bhajan section the abuse allegations against him need to be included. ] (]) 13:57, 5 July 2022 (UTC) | |||
| == Kashmir Shaivism, teach that there are multiple kundalini energies == | |||
| Other schools, such as Kashmir Shaivism, teach that there are multiple kundalini energies in different parts of the body which are active and do not require awakening | |||
| Maybe they were referring to prana as kundalini. There is the connection and perceived progress between Bindu - virja/Raja -- kundalini / prana | |||
| There are teachings that have all. ] (]) 05:47, 3 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == Lead of this article needs to highlight controversy == | |||
| Reading recent news articles about the release of the HBO series Breath of Fire, it seems that this Misplaced Pages article does not | |||
| reflect current POV of journalism on this topic by reliable sources. The apparent widespread sentiment that the modern practice of Kundalini yoga was largely created from scratch by a grifter and sexual predator and is fundamentally unrelated to traditional practices, should be the starting point of the article within the lead section, and not relegated to Controversy section at the end. The HBO series should also be mentioned. For recent reliable sources, see ] and the references in the final section about Controversy. ] (]) 16:51, 28 October 2024 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 16:51, 28 October 2024
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kundalini yoga article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
| Archives: 1, 2, 3 |
 | This article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 Archives | |||
|
|||
 |
Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers.
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
|
Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 October 2018 and 18 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Cheri Morgan.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:55, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Please discuss changes here first...
This is an topic article where opinions and the level of knowledge vary. As a co-editor of this page, I have striven to include and support statements made here from a wide variety of printed sources written in English, and use recent historical evidence about the teaching of Kundalini Yoga as it is currently recognized by Western Audiences. Due to a variety of roots of teachings and information, and sources which use the same name to describe different things, information can vary. Additionally, some people, groups and religions may have strong POVs around this topic.
Please follow the good faith tenets of Misplaced Pages and post and discuss changes here first so that if additions are helpful and appropriate, we can continue to co-craft and make this article better.
Just to establish a baseline: This is an article about "Kundalini Yoga", and not necessarily a page about kundalini energy, religion, esoteric forms of kundalini rising, and not necessarily about personal spiritual experiences.
We are always looking for good, cohesive editorial input. If you wish to improve the framework of this page, please do so, but please be prepared to discuss changes before posting. Please back up your sources, as well as provide reasoning for requesting new sections or excluding existing sections. Thank you kindly. +RogerThatOne72 (talk) 21:59, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
Yogi Bhajan references belong in this page
As a PhD student who has been studying yoga for the past half year, particularly Kundalini Yoga as it is currently practiced in the United States, I feel that the attempts to remove Yogi Bhajan from this page must be motivated by something other than a concern for factual accuracy. Furthermore, accusations that 3HO is a "cult" or anything to that effect are simply groundless, if not slanderous, and completely inconsistent with my experience with the wonderful people involved with that organization.
However one might feel about him, Yogi Bhajan was pivotal for the popularization of Kundalini Yoga in the United States and throughout the world, and has left an indelible mark on how it is currently practiced. According to Yoga Journal, 3HO, the organization started by Yogi Bhajan and which continues his work, Currently oversees 300 Kundalini Yoga centers worldwide: http://www.yogajournal.com/basics/1336
Therefore, excluding Yogi Bhajan from the page simply distorts its accuracy, and removing any explanation of Yogi Bhajan's significance to the contemporary practice of Kundalini Yogi only distorts it further. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Affinity909 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
- Question: How can edits be adjusted to improve article without continuing harassment from Misplaced Pages users such as Gatoclass? Main gripe seems to be that some paragraphs appear as "self-promotional", but he won't clarify or elucidate, and is not willing to work to reach consensus with current authors despite numerous attempts. Therefore it is up to current authors to make improvement in lieu of constructive aid from other Misplaced Pages users.RogerThatOne72 (talk) 00:23, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
- You've been responded to multiple times on this and you were almost banned when you were editing as Fatehji (which was confirmed by Checkuser), but you conveniently stopped using that account and started using this. You are the one that's being disruptive here by refusing to listen to any feedback. I'm sorry, but it's beyond the point where anyone else can keep explaining to you. —SpacemanSpiff 02:51, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
- Spiff, I used Fatehji at a work terminal when I didn't recall my Roger password a very long time ago, which I have already explained previously – and I never it used again. At that time I was not even aware of what "spoofing" was. What you are doing is clearly using this past mistake as some kind of leverage to hammer in a complete deletion of Yogi Bhajan from this article, and ignore all of the gathered consensus. It's a very poor excuse to use to avoid dialogue about the changes - a very cheap and easy escape - and you know it, so get over it. I'm not interested in arguing about it. This article is clearly not complete without Yogi Bhajan mentioned in it, and there is consensus from various authors, besides myself. I would like to work towards improving it and writing it, so use your common sense instead of your emotions, and stop deleting it completely without cause or discussion.RogerThatOne72 (talk) 12:28, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
New edits created to make the Yogi Bhajan paragraph less "marketing"-driven in tone. Assistance on specific adjustments welcome to be discussed here. See the edits page for the changes.RogerThatOne72 (talk) 15:07, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
- This is getting incredibly ridiculous. You have been socking and using Misplaced Pages for blatant POV pushing and spamming. This has to stop. —SpacemanSpiff 18:16, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
That's total BS. What's ridiculous is your inability to edit, compromise or even discuss changes. I've made hundreds of revisions and edits to this page, and all you and your cohorts and collaborators have ever done is A) never *once* discuss changes, B) never once try to compromise or follow consensus guidelines, and C) knee-jerk auto-delete any mention of Yogi Bhajan from this page. WTF, and SHAME on you. You are not following guidelines at all, and warring. BS. RogerThatOne72 (talk) 04:23, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
- Hey Spaceman, you can't just keep undoing the page and say "more spamming". that's an intentional mischaracterization of editing work I'm trying to do. It obviously shows you have not read the changes, nor do you have any interest in working towards a working version. How long will you keep ignoring the facts and just deleting changes? Your continuing actions and refusal to work towards a working compromise make your entire purpose and all of your actions highly suspect.RogerThatOne72 (talk) 17:56, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
- Fatehji, we've had enough of your incessant POV pushing using multiple socks. Stop. —SpacemanSpiff 09:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Various Kundalinis
What's not so clear in the article is that Kundalini yoga (or is it "Yoga" with a capital Y?) can mean several different things, including:
- The Upanishad of that name
- Any (and—according to the article in its current iteration—every) yoga practice that taps into kundalini energy
- The Kundalini yoga (with a "y"?) as described by Sivananda Saraswati in the 1930s
- The Kundalini Yoga (with a "Y"?) as described by Yogi Bhajan in the 1960s and is popular in the west today
Because when someone talks about "Kundalini yoga" they might be refering to one, some, all or none of these things, this article needs to reflect that. Morganfitzp (talk) 02:48, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks Morgan. One of the first and only people to raise a legitimate discussion on this page
.(whew!).How c
- Can we go about making this clearer? I agree it would help to clarify
itthis page somehow, although I think this page is about the yoga. Also, the Kundalini yoga (Sivananda) and Kundalini Yoga (Yogi Bhajan) are very close, and at least have the same root. Yogi Bhajan's expansion of it is much more widespread and accepted in the West, which historically, is more significant, I'd suppose. I'm not sure exactly what others think is marketing about that. Perhaps you can help with the jerks who auto-delete any mention of him. RogerThatOne72 (talk) 04:29 & 05:01, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
- Can we go about making this clearer? I agree it would help to clarify
- BTW, thanks for your edits. No one else has been willing to go into the actual text, read it, or offer intelligent edits for along time... I'd be happy to take specific advice and work with you to make this page better. RogerThatOne72 (talk) 05:01, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
- I think it is significant that the Upanishad is called "Yoga-Kundalini Upanishad", not "Kundalini-Yoga Upanishad". This title seems to suggest "this is the Yoga Upanishad called 'Kundalini'", not "an Upanishad on Kundalini-Yoga". I have so far failed to find the term "Kundalini-Yoga" in any Sanskrit text (but I am just doing online searches, I am sure it exists somewhere). The texts usually cited as early references for the concept seem to use kundali, not kundalini, and they are Tantra texts, not Yoga. The first use of "kundalini" in the context of Yoga may be in Yoga Yajnavalkya Samhita (13th c.?), but this needs verification (I have so far not found an online copy of this text).
- Kundalini Yoga now refers to the 3HO school of meditation, but the term has a history of course, being in use since at least 1919, possibly a few decades longer (by the Theosophic Society). Apparently it first came to be used as a synonym of Laya Yoga in this context, which seems to refer to any type of "Tantric Yoga", viz. the syncretism of the schools of Tantrism and Yoga that developed since ca. the 15th century. But this is just the history of the term, it isn't what the term now refers to. --dab (𒁳) 12:01, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
- After taking a step back from the Kundalini pages for a while, I'm focusing efforts on regular cleanup of each article's opening paragraph—Kundalini yoga and Kundalini energy—in hopes that these terms and their many meanings remain distinct and clear. Morganfitzp (talk) 02:24, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
I think we can all agree that Kundalini Yoga is NOT based on Sivananda's book. Nowhere in the book Kundalini Yoga does Swami Sivananda even claim his writings are original, but rather a recapitulation of ancient techniques. Don't believe me? Download the book ($1 on Amazon). While the phrase "Kundalini Yoga" might first arise here (though 'yoga-kundalini' already existed, which would be the same in an inflected language like Sanskrit), the practices are all older than the book (by hundreds of years mostly) even if they were called laya or tantra. To say that Kundalini Yoga is "Based on a 1935 treatise by Sivananda Saraswati" is incredibly misleading, especially for the opening paragraph of this article. If no one objects, I will remove that sentence, unless someone has a citation for this wonky claim.Iṣṭa Devata (talk) 07:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The Caduceus is not really a medical icon
The following passage of this article as of this writing is refering to a common misconception about the Caduceus. "This process can be seen depicted even today in modern medical iconography as two snakes spiraling a central staff, and although the origin of this image is more directly derived from the Caduceus of the Greek god Hermes, it may express the same or a similar principle."
The Caduceus is a symbol of occultism not of medicing, the rod of Asclepius is a symbol of medicin. For more info on this matter see Caduceus as a symbol of medicine
I'm not sure what to do in a situation like this nor am i a usualy a contributor to wikipedia , i hope i'm doing this the right way and i beg for forgivness and kind words of correction if i have done this the wrong way. --Letharin (talk) 05:32, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
"To Yoke" + Add "/harness"?
I feel for the opening translation to read "to yoke/harness" as this second term is a much "better" translation as it includes both the literal and mundane meaning in both languages, as well as giving the English audience the unique experience that word "harness" offers in terms of the connotation of wielding/taming and using, which I believe is the meaning trying to be conferred. The literal word for "yoke" in the language of origin may have a similar effect for its speakers/their culture.
Mr.troughton (talk) 12:10, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
I think hindu use of word Yoga should be explained
Even though its not directly related to the subject of the entry I think for the sake of the general reader something should be said about the use of the word yoga as originally meant in India. The Indians recognized four forms of yoga one of which revolves around the stretching and posing which most of the people in the word associate with the word yoga. The stretching and posing is referred to as Hatha yoga iirc. All four types of yoga share similar goals of personal development. My only point here is that the general reader has the word yoga so strongly associated with Hatha yoga that this needs to be cleared up to avoid confusion when discussing Kundalini yoga. I myself have had so much difficulty with this misunderstanding that I usually refer to it as Kundalini meditation just to avoid a pointless discussion about what yoga means. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.91.29.44 (talk) 11:17, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- I feel the proper place for a discussion on the term "yoga" would be Talk:Yoga. --dab (𒁳) 11:54, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Terms "Kundalini" and "Kundalini Yoga"
well, it turns out that "kundalini" emerges as a technical term in hatha yoga in about the 16th century. As far as I can tell, it was only at the very end of the 19th or the beginning of the 20th that laya yoga (the later "Kundalini yoga") came to be seen as not part of Hatha yoga. If we would dig into this, it would presumably emerge that Nigamananda Paramahansa had a significant hand in this development. --dab (𒁳) 12:56, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
Interesting. I seem to recall James Mallinson discussing it the other way around: with the distinct Laya and Hatha schools borrowing from each other forming our modern tangled amalgam. An example being Śavāsana originating in Laya and bleeding into Hatha. Vijñana Bhairava Tantra and other texts like it seem to describe a fairly Hatha-free set of samketas (tantic techniques) based on the Laya concept of dissolution. That said, I could be misinterpreting. Curious to hear any thoughts. I would also love to see some of your info bleed over onto the Nigamananda page too since there is very little mention of his kundalini teachings there. --Iṣṭa (𒁳) 23 April 2014 — Preceding undated comment added 06:10, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
From a summary of one of J Mallinson's lectures: "...the earliest texts to teach haṭhayoga (c.11th-13th centuries) shows that in its first formulations it was closely associated with traditional ascetic practice and that the aim of its techniques, which were physical, was to boost the beneficial effects of celibacy (or, at least, continence). Śākta traditions dating to a similar period had developed a system of yoga in which the yogin visualised the rising of Kuṇḍalinī from the base of the spine up through a series of cakras. This Kuṇḍalinī yoga, together with some other techniques developed in a Śākta milieu, was overlaid onto the techniques of haṭhayoga in texts such as the Vivekamārtaṇḍa, Gorakṣaśataka and Haṭhapradīpikā. The haṭhayoga taught in the latter text in particular became definitive and since its composition (c. 1450) Kuṇḍalinī-based haṭhayoga has been the dominant form of haṭhayoga, and indeed yoga more broadly conceived. The co-option of haṭhayoga by a Śākta tradition is representative of both the development within Śāktism of a less exclusive, more universal yoga..."
The form kundali exists in Classical Sanskrit (mening "ring, bracelet, coil").
This term seems to arise in at least the 11th century (possibly 8th?) in Tantrism.
The adoption into Yoga seems to date to between the 13th and 16th centuries (more research needed here).
By the 16th century, there was a "Yoga-Kundalini Upanishad", but this was still part of Hatha yoga.
I am still hazy on when "Kundalini yoga" was first coined, perhaps this was in the late 19th century, apparently by interference with Theosophism? The term existed at the very latest in 1919 (still as a synonym of laya yoga?) and seems to have evolved into a school advocated as a standalone type of yoga by 1935, offered commercially (and trademarked) around 1972. --dab (𒁳) 11:52, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Kundalini article
The content of following box is user:Jerzy#Kundalini article copied from my talk page copied from my talk page:
Hi there, please refer to the talk page of the article previously known as kundalini. I have stated that your changes were unnecessary, unhelpful and had no consensus. Out of courtesy I ask that you revert them immediately. Please use the talk page for any further discussion. Freelion (talk) 01:33, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
- Indeed no longer Kundalini, which is now a Dab. Talk:Kundalini Rdr's to Talk:Kundalini yoga, so that is probably the talk page in question. Let's see what the scoop is.
--Jerzy•t 17:38, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
--Jerzy•t 17:55 &19:43, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
- I recall disambiguating "Kundalini", presumbly by converting Kundalini to a Dab page, or (more likely, judging by some summaries i see on my contribs, doing that and then turning it into a single-topic page with a HatNote to a new Dab page.) That stretch of contribs also indicates concurrent and presumably relevant discussion at User talk:Morganfitzp#Dab editing, which a more skilled WP editor probably would have consulted before issuing what is, however politely couched, an ultimatum. I don't recall its substance, but I would suggest you check whether you've considered whatever they and i discussed at the time.
--Jerzy•t 19:43 & 19:46, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
- I recall disambiguating "Kundalini", presumbly by converting Kundalini to a Dab page, or (more likely, judging by some summaries i see on my contribs, doing that and then turning it into a single-topic page with a HatNote to a new Dab page.) That stretch of contribs also indicates concurrent and presumably relevant discussion at User talk:Morganfitzp#Dab editing, which a more skilled WP editor probably would have consulted before issuing what is, however politely couched, an ultimatum. I don't recall its substance, but I would suggest you check whether you've considered whatever they and i discussed at the time.
How to protect this page from vandalism
Any ideas? We have random ips coming on here to insert their POV against Yogi Bhajan. Nothing wrong with not liking the man, but seriously: this is an encyclopedia, not someone's angry blog. Should the page be locked, or is it easier to just ban the ips as they come up?Iṣṭa Devata (talk) 06:19, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
- Hi, Iṣṭa Devata! Here is a page that provides instructions, as well as a site for leaving a Misplaced Pages:Requests for page protection. Maybe {{lt|...}} in this case would do the trick, what do you think? There is also Misplaced Pages:Rough guide to semi-protection, an introductory dealing with the matter. I hope this helps! Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 18:35, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
Make this about Yoga, not Yogi Bhajan
Half of this page is about Yogi Bhajan and not about kundalini yoga. While the politics of 3HO are interesting and I take a certain pleasure in watching edit wars, all of this is thoroughly spelled out on Yogi Bhajan's wiki page (and 3HO's page). I don't see the purpose of making this article about one yogi instead of making it about a real subject like kundalini yoga, its history and the philosophy and anatomy that accompany it. Yogi Bhajan should be confined to a section or a link for further reading and then this page would stop being vandalized and ruined with copy pasted sikh propaganda against yoga and Yogi Bhajan. That's a subject that can be (and is) discussed on the Sikh pages, Bhajan's page, 3HO's page, etc. This page should have sections on subtle anatomy (cakras, nadis, nada, the debate over kundalini's mechanics etc); a history of its development and roots in tantra and hatha with pivotal texts named; how Sivananda, Krisnamacarya, and others addressed kundalini in their teachings and writings; Arthur Avalon's translation efforts; modern superimposed systems like chakra balancing, sound baths, crystal healing, rainbow colors, etcetera; and a much smaller section on it's modern history in the west linking to Bhajan's page if people want to learn more about Western Sikh Dharma Kundalini or "Yogi Bhajan's Kundalini". As it is, this page gives the false impression that what 3HO teaches is the preeminent or normative form of kundalini practice instead of a modern syncretic practice, slightly removed from its Hindu milieu. Iṣṭa Devatā (talk) 15:55, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kundalini yoga. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090610044331/http://tobias-lib.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/volltexte/2008/3596/ to http://tobias-lib.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/volltexte/2008/3596/
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).
- If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
- If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:19, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
"Kundalini yoga is often identified as the most dangerous form of yoga because of the involvement of subtle energies"
I'm sorry, what?!? Linuxo (talk) 09:06, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Yogi Bhajan Abusive
In the Yogi Bhajan section the abuse allegations against him need to be included. 47.33.92.56 (talk) 13:57, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
Kashmir Shaivism, teach that there are multiple kundalini energies
Other schools, such as Kashmir Shaivism, teach that there are multiple kundalini energies in different parts of the body which are active and do not require awakening
Maybe they were referring to prana as kundalini. There is the connection and perceived progress between Bindu - virja/Raja -- kundalini / prana There are teachings that have all. 27.131.209.252 (talk) 05:47, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
Lead of this article needs to highlight controversy
Reading recent news articles about the release of the HBO series Breath of Fire, it seems that this Misplaced Pages article does not reflect current POV of journalism on this topic by reliable sources. The apparent widespread sentiment that the modern practice of Kundalini yoga was largely created from scratch by a grifter and sexual predator and is fundamentally unrelated to traditional practices, should be the starting point of the article within the lead section, and not relegated to Controversy section at the end. The HBO series should also be mentioned. For recent reliable sources, see ] and the references in the final section about Controversy. 144.71.77.242 (talk) 16:51, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
Categories:- C-Class Yoga articles
- High-importance Yoga articles
- WikiProject Yoga articles
- C-Class Hinduism articles
- High-importance Hinduism articles
- C-Class Spirituality articles
- Low-importance Spirituality articles
- C-Class Alternative views articles
- High-importance Alternative views articles
- WikiProject Alternative views articles
- C-Class Skepticism articles
- High-importance Skepticism articles
- Skepticism articles needing attention
- WikiProject Skepticism articles
- C-Class Alternative medicine articles
- C-Class Altered States of Consciousness articles
- High-importance Altered States of Consciousness articles