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Revision as of 18:04, 2 June 2010 editSandstein (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators188,544 edits →Appeal of the sanction against Aregakn: closed as unsuccessful← Previous edit Latest revision as of 03:34, 9 January 2025 edit undoSeraphimblade (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators46,240 edits →PerspicazHistorian: Closing 
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<!--PLEASE PLACE NEW REQUESTS BELOW THIS NOTICE -->


==PerspicazHistorian==
== Appeal of the sanction against Aregakn ==
{{hat|{{u|PerspicazHistorian}} is blocked indefinitely from mainspace. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 03:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC) }}
{{hat|1=Appeal unsuccessful.}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
<small>''Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in . According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. <p>To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see ]).''</small>


===Request concerning PerspicazHistorian===
; Appealing user : {{userlinks|Aregakn}} – ] (]) 23:41, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PerspicazHistorian}}<p>{{ds/log|PerspicazHistorian}}</p>
; Sanction being appealed : Ban on referals to any editors' edits as "Possible Vandalism", "Vandalism" etc. (if not 3RR violation or other obvious cases); imposed at ]; Log: ]


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
; Administrator imposing the sanction : {{admin|Stifle}}


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
; Notification of that administrator :
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
Administrator notified: ] ] (]) 23:54, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of ] (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
# - tag bombed the highly vetted ] article without any discussion or reason
# - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
# - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting
# - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
# - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
# - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "{{tq|This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.}}"


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
===Statement by Aregakn===
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
*Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->


I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
''The appeal is for the sanction lift.'' Introduction:
*In the AE for the editor Hittit, that was failing to comply with ] according to the request, I found valuable to present references to additional multiple violations. This decision was based on the will to be constructively contributing to articles of Misplaced Pages, rather than uselessly spending time to prevent violations of rules and/or the integrity of articles and so Misplaced Pages as a whole. In the last (#7) of the violations I thought relevant to the case, I wanted to bring to the attention of the ruling administrator, that a deletion of a cover-page of the NewYork Times paper ], stating "Million Armenians Killed or in Exile" and other similar, was deleted in ''only one of the multiple identical edits'' , , , of the heavily biased editor. Bringing it to the attention for the authorised person's consideration, as a reason for it I mentioned a "'''Possible''' vandalism", meaning a possibility of Sneaky Vandalism. The latter was clarified in the appeal to the sanction on my ]. Unfortunately the appeal for lift was denied and only reduced to 1 month from 1 year.


:While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to ]. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
'''The reasons for the appeal''':
*Considering my will to preserve valuable time of mine and other editors to engage in value-adding activities to Misplaced Pages, rather than "warring" in one way or another, to preserve Wiki-integrity, with editors that are here most possibly for other purposes, ''I was, in good faith, bringing the very many evidences on how our work is disrupted on Misplaced Pages''. I cannot consider any rational reason (or recall an existing rule) to sanction somebody for trying to bring violations into consideration, with quite a possible reasoning of why (s)he does it. I consider the sanction as irrelevant, lacking rational bases (and personally disappointing for a constructive editor). ] (]) 23:41, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


*PerspicazHistorian is still using sources (see ]) and wishing to move ] to ] which is a blatant POV. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 04:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::The link to the AE was given in the "Sanction being appealed" section: ], until it was removed/archived by ] after that. Now it is in ].


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
::1) Though the ''purpose'' of why Stifle ''considered'' this sanction is clear to me, as I have stated, I see no bases and reasons for why it would be issuing (to put it '''very''' roughly "corpus delicti").
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
::2) Once again, there was no direct accusation of the editor! The AE was about the ''conduct of the editor'' and there were very many cases that showed his conduct is disruptive for the work of Misplaced Pages. That was the place where those edits should have been considered, wasn't it? So this is where I brought to the attention one of many I suspected in Sneaky vandalism. That very edit (deletion of content in a sneaky way) could not have been made neither in accordance with ] restrictions nor in good faith or in any way appropriate for the article The ]. ''In addition, if anybody thinks that somebody would make '''Sneaky Vandalism by blanking whole pages or paragraphs''', I do not.'' Neither this edit could anyhow be viewed as quote: "...an effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism". Deleting a factual newspaper page just to hide the title of it is in no way a desire to improve the encyclopedia, is it?
::3) With the above in mind, I don't consider that bringing this very case to the attention of the admin for his/her consideration, with no direct accusation, as "throwing about the word "vandalism"" as Stifle calls it.
::4) I would not justify in either way A sanction against an editor that are based or referred to as "I rather doubt that this small sanction will have any serious impact on Aregakn's editing of the encyclopedia." This isn't the way Admins are intitled to act, as I know.
::5)If I have to comment the below "This appeal is ridiculous..... That isn't even a restriction." I want to be asked so by an uninvolved admin once again. ] (]) 14:18, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
:::I can see, that ] has made a vote for a decline with reasoning, that shows he has not familirised himself with the case. For isntance: . I could mention others but think this is enough. An appaling action from an Administrator, when considering cases, I think. I hope that other rulings/votes/comments of his have not been made in this manner! ] (]) 23:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
*'''IMPORTANT NOTE.''' I am not appealing the '''whole''' ruling of ]. It is '''only''' the sanction against me I am applying to be appealed. ] (]) 19:42, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
*The AE case that sanctioned me s linked correct. Here, in the ] -> in the paragraph '''Result concerning Hittit''', along with others concerning ], is ''the sanction against me'':
{{cquote2|Hittit (talk · contribs) '''and Aregakn''' (talk · contribs) are placed on an editing restriction in the following terms for one year. Should either describe any edit in the area of conflict (construed widely) as vandalism (including, but not limited to, in edit summaries, talk page posts, and AE requests), other than an edit, reverting which would be exempt from the 3RR, they may be blocked for an appropriate duration by an uninvolved administrator. This includes, but is not limited to, references to vandalism with a qualifier such as "obvious", "simple", or "possible"." end of quote.}}


===Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
] (]) 20:42, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by PerspicazHistorian ====
*'''IMPORTANT NOTE.''' Unfortunately the Title of the appeal was, I think, mistakenly removed and this is why the whole case seemed irrelevant to the AE I mentioned. I am just noticing it . I shall revert that change so everything is clear. ] (]) 21:01, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
*By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on ] Page.
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before ] told me about this: ].
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.<br>
*In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on ] by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to ] it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of ].<br>
*As a clarification to my edit on ], it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this . I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
:@], Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in ]. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! ] (]) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::Yes, I will commit to that. ] (]) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) </small>
:At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when ] was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. ] (]) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
*Hi @] , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
::''<small>P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards.</small>'' ] (]) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)<small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.] (]) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*1) I just asked an user @] if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
*'''Comment by ].''' It is obvious, that he doesn't even read where he puts his comments. He has been asked once not to push malicious calumnies against me. He calls this process declined in ANI and now here, when it is yet in progress. He also claims I have been blackmailing users he calls Azeri, when the notifications on their talk-pages were inviting and linking to discussions started on certain article talk-pages. ] (]) 12:10, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
:2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! ] (]) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::even @] is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. ] (]) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::as mentioned by @] before, <sub>Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here</sub>. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. ] (]) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::@] I once filed a to find it @] is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. ] (]) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) <small>moving to correct section ] (]) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*Hi @] @], In my defense I just want to say that
*Stifle's comment: No, it's a restriction not to consider and express concerns even like "possible vandalism" about any edit if they are not 3RR violations or big/full blanking of articles. And to add, there wasn't any reason for it as I addressed as "possible vandalism" the Sneaky vandalism and even hadn't made a 100% sure statement about it. ] (]) 01:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on ] page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
:::Note: The appeal was archived unresolved. Now brought back. ] (]) 15:33, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
:2) My main interest in editing is ] and ] topics.
I oppose the closure of the appeal as unsuccessful. The absence of interest or insufficient amount of admins should not be a basis to abandon an appeal. There have to be other ways to inform admins to participate. ] (]) 06:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
:3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
:Please do not block me. ] (]) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*@] I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @] I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*@]@] I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*@] This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*:@] I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned ]. ] (]) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*::@]@] I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
*::The article ] doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about ], I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! ] (]) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::@] You mean to say, "<sub>The ''prasada'' is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, ] and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the ]. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. "</sub> is not copy pasted by website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? ] (]) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::@ ] I just asked others to share their opinion in the enforcement. With all due respect, I don't think its wrong in any sense. ] (]) 15:13, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::::To all the admins involved here,
*:::::* I agree to keep learning and apologize if my previous edits/replies have annoyed the admins.
*:::::* I have not edit warred since a month and please see it as my willingness to keep learning and getting better.
*:::::*Please give me a chance, I understand concern of you all and respect your opinion in the matter. But please don't block me from editing from main article space. I promise that I will abide by all the rules and will learn from other editors.
*:::::] (]) 15:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)


===Statement by Stifle=== ====Statement by LukeEmily====
PerspicazHistorian also violated ] by engaging in an edit war with {{u|Ratnahastin}} who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.] (])
One of the main issues related to this arbitration enforcement request was users throwing about the word "vandalism" to refer to edits with which they disagreed, rather than genuine damage to the encyclopedia. I rather doubt that this small sanction will have any serious impact on Aregakn's editing of the encyclopedia. Nevertheless, if there is a consensus that even the greatly reduced sanction I imposed after the appeal was excessive, then let it be lifted. ] (]) 07:18, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
:To Sandstein: ]. ] (]) 13:39, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
:Point of information: Aregakn is not subject to edit summary parole; that's Hittit. ] (]) 20:19, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
::To AGK: Aregakn is not alleged to have used a misleading edit summary, and is not subject to a restriction on edit summaries. ] (]) 15:43, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
:::To AGK: No, I'm being dense and misreading. Aregakn is on edit summary parole, not revert parole. ] (]) 15:59, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
:::More precisely, Aregakn is on a restriction not to describe edits as vandalism which are not vandalism. ] (]) 19:01, 24 May 2010 (UTC)


===Statement by (involved editor 1)=== ====Statement by Doug Weller====
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and ]'s comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving ] to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. ] (]) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. ] ] 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)


:::I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... ] ] 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
===Statement by (involved editor 2)===


====Statement by Toddy1====
===Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Aregakn ===
This is another editor who appears to have pro-] (RSS) and pro-] (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-] views, but allowed ] to say whatever they liked.


A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.
Although I have edited on the "Armenian Genocide" in the past I have not been involved in this particular issue. I just wanted to say that Aregakn has done a lot of good work on Armenian issues in an impossible environment where he is outnumbered by people with extreme right-wing opinions. I just wanted to say that he deserves that you go easy on him. He is doing a great job in an impossible environment. ] (]) 01:15, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


If we want to talk about ] when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .
:Aregakn, please link to the request or discussion that led to your sanction, or we cannot review your appeal. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 07:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.
:: This appeal is ridiculous. So, he has been told not to refer to other people's edits as "vandalism" when they aren't? That isn't even a restriction. ''Nobody'' is allowed to refer to other people's edits as vandalism when they aren't. This sanction is merely a reminder of a behavioral norm that goes for everybody; it doesn't restrict his editing in any way. ] ] 08:00, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">--] ]</span> 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::''Offtopic personal attacks by {{user|Nipsonanomhmata}} and ensuing discussion . Continued attacks of this sort will be sanctioned as disruption. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 15:52, 14 May 2010 (UTC)''


====Statement by Capitals00====
::::It was neither offtopic nor a personal attack. I feel like I am communicating with aliens. ] (]) 20:43, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
I find the comment from {{U|Toddy1}} to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "{{tq|Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India}}"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like ].
::::: Be quiet, Nipsonanomhmata. Your comments are wholly unhelpful and you are quickly losing any sympathy I may previously have had to the pending appeal against your sanctions. ] 21:11, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user ]. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "{{tq|seek to censor}}" this editor due to his "{{tq| pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views}}". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure ] is coming for you. ] (]) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*<s>'''Decline appeal.''' The appealed sanctions are a reasonable exercise of administrator discretion. The edit summary parole forbidding Aregakn from using misleading edit summaries is justified by the evidence given in the decision, and the editing restriction forbidding Aregakn from referring to non-vandalism edits by others as "vandalism" is within the scope of the ] that every user must follow anyway. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 15:49, 14 May 2010 (UTC)</s>


====Statement by Vanamonde93====
::It is truely very sad to see how both of the commenting admins have refused to go into the sense of the appeal. I get the impression, that some become admins to feel the power of suppression and not for protecting Misplaced Pages integrity.
{{U|Toddy1}}: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.
::User ] has been trying to prevent Articles from obvious disruptive edits of Hittit by bringing up his actions. For this, he has been sanctioned. He had not been accusing anybody constantly in vandalism. He just said 1 action could be vandalism (which obviously was). And for this he is sanctioned? And somebody yet agrees to sanction a good editor for nothing wrong? You have made a beurocracy out of Misplaced Pages! ] (]) 00:24, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. ], entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ({{tq|"first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya"}}, and poor sources (like , and , whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. ], also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.
:::I seem to have been mistaken. After reading AGK's comment, and the original AE discussion again, I agree with AGK that it is not clear on the basis of which specific conduct Arekagn has been restricted from describing edits by others as vandalism. If no diffs for conduct warranting this sanction are forthcoming, I agree that the appeal should be granted and the sanction lifted. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 11:07, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. {{U|Bishonen}} If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. ] (]) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
* <s>I am puzzled as to why Aregakn is appealing a general sanction that he has yet been proven to have violated. The message behind that is that he is seeking permission to actually use inaccurate edit summaries; and on that basis, I am opposed to reverse the ban. The subject of the sanctions used a misleading edit summary for multiple changes. For instance, , he implied that the change he was reverting was inaccurate because 'Holocaust' is not the correct phrase to use. But that phrase in fact had nothing to do with the edit in question; indeed, the disputed material does not at any point mention the phrase 'Holocaust'. Furthermore, his claim that 'genocide' is a term only applicable to Nazi Germany, and to no other historical event, is clearly false—even to somebody like myself (with no familiarity with the subject area). Lifting this ban would be to condone poor editing habits, so I say we keep it. '''Decline appeal.''' ] 15:27, 17 May 2010 (UTC)</s>
:: We would get a lot further if you linked to the AE case that sanctioned you, rather than to irrelevant cases. ] 19:48, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
:: I see now that Aregakn was sanctioned in the course of a thread that was titled as concerning Hittit. I didn't pick up on that until Aregakn set me straight on my user talk page. I will offer a more extended comment shortly. ] 21:11, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Question: Where precisely was it Aregakn used a misleading edit summary? I cannot find any evidence that he did so. I did see evidence of limited edit warring back in April, but obviously that was not what he was sanctioned for. Comment by Stifle, as the administrator who passed the sanction, is especially solicited. ] 12:17, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
:::: Stifle: He was placed on an edit summary restriction at ], unless I'm being dense and misreading. ] 14:57, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
:::: It has not been proven that Aregakn has used a misleading edit summary at any point, so I question the necessity of placing him on edit summary parole in the first place. I reject the notion that he should remain sanctioned because the parameters of the edit summary parole are no tighter than the ordinary standards of editor conduct; no editor should be unnecessarily sanctioned. I move to speedily '''grant appeal'''. ] 10:43, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
* {{Color|dimgrey|'''(Comment dated 07:43, 18 May 2010 (UTC) by ] removed.)'''}} ] 12:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
:* With respect, this section is reserved for constructive comments by ''uninvolved'' editors. ] 12:20, 19 May 2010 (UTC)


:Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . ] (]) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
===Result of the appeal by Aregakn===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''


====Statement by UtherSRG====
If there are no objections by other admins, I intend to close this appeal as unsuccessful because we do not have the required clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors to overturn the sanction. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 17:21, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I've mostly dealt with PH around ]. They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the ] when they can demonstrate they no longer have ] issues. - ] ] 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:So closed. Aregakn remains free to appeal his sanction to the Arbitration Committee. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 18:04, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
{{hab}}


:Based on , I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - ] ] 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
== Brandmeister, Grandmaster, John Vandenberg ==
::They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in ] territory here. - ] ] 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::: is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - ] ] 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)


===Result concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
{{hat|Frivolous request, not actionable}}
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
Request concerning Brandmeister, Grandmaster, John Vandenberg
; User requesting enforcement : ] (]) 02:22, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


{{u|PerspicazHistorian}}, can you explain your understanding of ] and the ] rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring ''even if they aren't breaking 3RR''. ] (]) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Brandmeister}}, {{userlinks|Grandmaster}}, {{userlinks|John Vandenberg}}
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
:@], that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is ''the first time'' someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
:<small>Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is ]; in their ] NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here.</small> ] (]) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? ] (]) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@], have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. ] (]) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. ] (]) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::@], like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God |url=https://www.ganeshaspeaks.com/predictions/astrology/prasad-food-for-god/ |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=GaneshaSpeaks |language=en-GB}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=What Is Prashad |url=https://www.swaminarayan.faith/articles/what-is-prashad |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj |language=en}}</ref> The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit ''yesterday'', after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
:::::The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. ] (]) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. ] &#124; ] 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
*:{{u|Vanamonde93}}, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we ''are'' in CIR territory; just look at PH's ] for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. ] &#124; ] 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
*Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? ] (]) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. ] (] • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*It looks to me like there is a consensus for an indefinite partial block for PerspicazHistorian from article space. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within a day or so, I will close as such. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Given PH's recent slew of requests on multiple admin talk pages, yes, please do. - ] ] 12:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
*<!--
-->


{{reflist talk}}
;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ]
{{hab}}


==LaylaCares==
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
{{hat|There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)}}
# Brandmeister , , , ,
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
# Grandmaster , ,
# John Vandenberg


===Request concerning LaylaCares===
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : block
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Vice regent}} 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|LaylaCares}}<p>{{ds/log|LaylaCares}}</p>
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : The fact is there is no independent media, which would be writing about adopted a document of the House of Representatives of Massachusetts (see , and . If Massachusetts takes a political decision, it must be published in the American media. Moreover, it is an international document. But the opponents were returned information with reference to the Azerbaijani media. They do not want to understand that about the official document adopted by Massachusetts are required to report American media, not the Azerbaijani newspaper. When I put the information that this only view of Azerbaijani media, and on the website of Massachusetts there is nothing about this, they began to delete this information (John Vandenberg , Grandmaster ) ] (]) 02:22, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
===Discussion concerning Brandmeister, Grandmaster, John Vandenberg===


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
====Statement by Brandmeister, Grandmaster, John Vandenberg====
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
====Comments by others about the request concerning Brandmeister, Grandmaster, John Vandenberg====
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
This is forum shopping by a user who was (apparently properly) reverted by multiple other users, and eventually blocked for disruption related to the behavior he's complaining about. I recommend close, no behavior actually subject to AE sanctions involved. ] (]) 03:02, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
# EC gaming




;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
To ]: you must be mistaken to judge the content instead of conduct of the editors. There is a clear violation of rules by other editors too and it has to be addressed. If 1 disrupts, it doesn't justify others. You could have "filed" this request yourself, if you were against disruption. At least 2 of the above users: ] and ] has also been spotted multiple times in similar conduct and were also banned, unlike Divot's past. ] (]) 03:23, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
:I reviewed the situation. In my opinion,
:* There was disruption, but it was by Divot, who may be sincere but is acting wrongly in this instance under Misplaced Pages policy.
:* There is no violation of a Misplaced Pages arbitration decision which has occurred here, so there is nothing to enforce here at this noticeboard.
:I understand why you and Divot are upset, but you need to calm down and listen to the criticism people have made of the behavior. You're doing something wrong. Trying to escalate a larger abuse case, in response to being told you're wrong, warned you're wrong, blocked for being persistently wrong, is not a good way to accomplish things on Misplaced Pages.
:] (]) 03:24, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
::I'm not really upset because of what you might think but because of some manner of judgement (If I was, I'd be reverting too). Please review what I wrote and consider the behavior of the above editors as well. If you think there was no revert violation by them, then state it that way. But accusing Divot only is not the way. If the other editors noticed a disruptive way of editing, they should have dealt with it as intructed in Wiki. I think you'd agree. ] (]) 03:31, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
::: On first review, they did deal with it the way you are supposed to on Misplaced Pages. Reverted and discussed on the talk page; when that failed and Divot kept disrupting, took it here to this page (see case above against Divot, halfway up the page). ] (]) 03:38, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
::::Are you telling, that if I revert edits and bring it to the discussion, and the other editor continue editing the same thing (reverting), my further reverts will be justified? ] (]) 03:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
What Divot is reporting may not be actionable (except for Brandmeister) but see my remark , there were more reverts than he reports, example for John Vandenberg when there in fact was 3 reverts. Also see the comment by AGK. Nothing excuse Divot, he should have known better. On the other hand, I find Brandmeister overal contribution actionable. He had more than reasonable revert and Divot and Brandmeister should have both been sanctioned, on ] for example, he reverted without giving specifics as to why the version was innacurate. I tried pleasing both sides by keeping Shusha and replaced Azeri with Turkic and not Iranian or Caucasus, and he reverted me twice and he never bothered using the talkpage. Even his first edit recently was a revert if we check the history of the article. ] (]) 05:55, 25 May 2010 (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
===Result concerning Brandmeister, Grandmaster, John Vandenberg===
As noted by Georgewilliamherbert, this is a frivolous request and is closed as '''not actionable.''' The reported reverts to ] appear to reflect a content dispute, which cannot be resolved through arbitration enforcement. It is not explained how they violate any applicable conduct norm. Divot was properly blocked by {{user|AGK}} for his part in that edit war and that he may be subject to discretionary sanctions if he continues disrupting Misplaced Pages. Such disruption may also include continued forum shopping. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 05:36, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
{{hab}}


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
== NickCT ==


===Discussion concerning LaylaCares===
{{hat|{{user|NickCT}} blocked 48 hours by ]}}
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
===Request concerning NickCT===
; User requesting enforcement : ] (]) 22:07, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by LaylaCares====
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|NickCT}}


====Statement by Aquillion====
;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ]
Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be ]-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail ], since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --] (]) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


===Statement by Dan Murphy===
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : # Personal attack calling me a bigot when I wasn't even talking to him.
Please look at ], written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.] (]) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
# Failure to AGF, accusing an editor of gaming the system by POV pushing under the disguise of some good faith edits.
# More incivility, after I asked him to AGF because he drew conclusions about the intentions of another editor and accused them of making valid changes only to mask supposed "POV pushing".
# It gets as petty as following me around to other pages where he is completely uninvolved and attacking me with no clear purpose.
# Edit warring ] as the perpetrator after consensus was reached 2 months ago (NickCT was part of the discussion on the talk page that reached this consensus) to only label them as a suspected perp.
# Failure to AGF again, starting his comment with an accusation that "Breein is likely going to edit war this".
# Personal attack against me in response to an admin warning him not to use personal attacks.
# More of above.
# Personal attack against me after I submitted a valid (CU was warranted), albeit incorrect SPI.
# Edit warring - removing content two months after consensus called to keep it
# Edit warring - same as above
# After I warned him against removing sourced content against consensus (there was a long discussion on the talk page of the article and the agreement was the the sentence should not be removed - two months later he came back and deleted it again), he responded that if I submit an AE report it will be frivolous. I'm only including this one to show that I tried to warn him recently about the possibility of bringing this to AE, but he has continued with his disruptive and hostile behaviour since that warning.
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required): # Warning by {{user|Shuki}} Edit warring
# Warning by {{user|Shuki}} 3RR Violation
# Warning by {{admin|2over0}} Edit warring
# Warning by {{admin|Philip Baird Shearer}} Personal attacks
# Warning by {{admin|Malik Shabazz}} civility/AGF/NPA
# Blocked by {{admin|Ged UK}} Personal attacks/Harassment
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : To be honest I'm not sure what is appropriate here. I have only encountered this negative behaviour in the Israeli-Arab area on Misplaced Pages, so maybe a topic ban would help. I don't know if he behaves similarly in other topic areas. If so, maybe an overall block is necessary. Either way, I trust that admins will be able to determine an appropriate way to guide NickCT to better editing habits.


====Statement by starship.paint====
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : NickCT and I have a fairly long history, and we have had our share of bickering in the past. I have tried to avoid interacting with him because the past has proven that the two of us do not get along. He was previously blocked for harassing me with personal attacks, and the diff of the warnings and block of that are noted above. For a while, we stayed away from each other. Recently, our paths have crossed again and his personal attacks and harassment have resurfaced. It is highly frustrating and difficult for me to edit the encyclopedia and make positive contributions or attempt to collaborate with other editors when he butts in and interrupts with personal attacks wherever possible. It has gotten so bad that he has even followed me around to other user's talk pages to hound me (the diff is above). Not only are the personal attacks, assumptions of bad faith, and harassment disruptive, but they have led me to notice that he has been edit warring again. The most troubling edit warring is the instances where he has come back to articles after several months to edit war against consensus that he was originally part of attaining.
I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, . '''] (] / ])''' 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
I encourage everyone to consider this case after reading the following sections of ARBPIA: , , .


<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :


===Discussion concerning NickCT=== ===Result concerning LaylaCares===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''

<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
====Statement by NickCT====
*I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. ] (]) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

*I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. ] (]) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
====Comments by others about the request concerning NickCT ====
*I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. ] (]/]) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
It would have been helpful if this had been focused on recent behavior - some of the diffs are from December - but I agree with PhilKnight's block based on his two replies to you on ] in the last two days - and . Those were clearly inappropriate behavior on his part ( ], ] ) and entirely appropriate to bring to a noticeboard. ] (]) 22:37, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
*@]: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. ] (]/]) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

*:I don't think the wording of ] allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. <small>(ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.)</small> That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*Agree with the block. I have a different take than George as to what was listed -- Some sysops are fine just seeing recent diffs. But others would like to see a longer-term pattern of behavior. The above diffs should have satisfied both approaches, and I would suggest that George's well-meaning remark not be understood to reflect the approach all sysops will take. Reflecting both recent diffs, and longer-term diffs, is still IMHO the best approach, as it covers the spectrum of sysop preferences.--] (]) 01:05, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
*I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making ''real'', substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
** Hmm. Useful feedback. Let me refocus a bit. It would have helped if the diffs were sorted into clearly labeled recent and historical lists, so we could see the current incident clearly and then the historical context. ] (]) 03:00, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
*I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag ''is'' an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

*I appreciate the fast response Phil, thank you. But to be honest, I was hoping to see some discussion first. While I understand that there isn't much discussion needed to determine that Nick was incivil and sent multiple personal attacks my way, and that a block is deserved after previous warnings and blocks, I still think this case deserves added attention. My reason is that I don't think a 48 hour block will reverse the disturbing edit warring, consensus-undermining removal of content, and complete opposition to collaboration, especially since the block was specifically given for the personal attacks. Can you Phil, or any other admins, please take a look and comment on the edit warring? In all honesty, I'd rather Nick keep berating me but stop edit warring and going against consensus. I'm here to improve the encyclopedia, so if it's a choice of being insulted and having good articles or having someone play nice but continue edit warring and deleting sourced content, I would choose the first one. Obviously the ideal is to fix both though... ] (]) 01:36, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
** I think it's on the record that he went way too far this time and has a history of having done so in the past several times as well. I hope he won't continue it, but the next admins along if he does should be able to take it from here. It might help to discuss it more on his talk page, specifically what was wrong etc, to try and defuse it though. ] (])

===Result concerning NickCT===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->
Blocked 48 hours. ] (]) 22:26, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
{{hab}} {{hab}}


== Dr. Dan == ==AstroGuy0==
{{hat|{{u|AstroGuy0}} has been issued a warning for source misrepresentation by {{u|Voorts}}. No other reviewers have expressed any wish for further action. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 06:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC) }}
{{hat|1={{User|Dr. Dan}} blocked 72h and interaction-banned from Piotrus and Nihil novi.}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>
===Request concerning Dr. Dan===
; User requesting enforcement : <sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 22:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


===Request concerning AstroGuy0===
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Dr. Dan}}
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Hemiauchenia}} 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|AstroGuy0}}<p>{{ds/log|AstroGuy0}}</p>
;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ] & ]


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : 1 & - uncivil, bad faith, personal attacks (discussing editors) and thus creating unfriendly atmosphere (in particular, language like "compromised, sockpuppeteer", "'''highly discredited''' and banned". Please note that this edit was after a while removed by an editor who recognized it as a personal attack:
:2 - not as uncivil, but still involves unnecessary commentary about my person ("the Prokonsul is banned from participating at that forum")
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required): 1 Warning by {{user|Ioeth}}
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : I am not fond of asking for an editors to be blocked. Perhaps an ''indef'' restriction on discussing other editors (unless they have started to discuss him first) would be better (why indef - see below). If it can be shown that I or anybody else has a habit of making similar comments about Dr. Dan, I would support such a restriction being two-sided (that said, I do not believe this is a case, and I would ask for anybody who would like to make such a point to start their own new AE thread).


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : Please note that this is not some exceptional slip - Dr. Dan was placed on the restriction in the first place because such comments are a continuing part of his behavior. In fact, this behavior has led to at least two editors leaving or vastly reducing their activity on that project: , . I cannot speak for Nihil Novi, but speaking for myself, such comments as noted above certainly don't encourage me to keep contributing to this project. All I am asking is that ] policy is enforced. Thank you,
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
(Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of '''race/ethnicity''' and human abilities '''and behaviour'''")


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once.
# Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani"


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
===Discussion concerning Dr. Dan===


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
====Statement by Dr. Dan====


: Made aware of contentious topics criterion:
Thank you for your patience and allowing me time to respond. This proceeding is a very sad event. That it should be seriously entertained by anyone with authority to allow such a travesty to take place is equally sad. If anyone supposes that I should back pedal my comments and make a conciliatory "hat in hand" type of statement, I'm sorry but I can't do that. First of all because nothing provided in the so called "evidence", that I said, is untrue. It was not a ], and most definitely in the context of those ], it was also not ]. Strongly worded perhaps, but not rude, and only in response to insulting and provocative comments made towards me and other ]. Secondly, when a participant in this proceeding accuses me of the criminal offense of ] and the parties involved who are supposed to adjudicate this matter do not immediately intercede and put a stop to such statements, this body needs to reassess it's priorities and objectivity. Or has allowing someone to call a Wikipedian a "blackmailer" become acceptable behavior here? If it is, I would appreciate hearing any evidence that I have ever blackmailed or intimidated anyone, anywhere, let alone on Misplaced Pages. I don't expect any evidence to be forthcoming, anymore than evidence was presented to prove the accusation claiming that another ] made "death threats" to this party .
<!-- Add any further comment here -->


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
This entire matter arose over a content dispute at the ] article which was carried over to the ], where I disagreed with Nihil's belief that Piotrus' participation had a "salutary" influence on the discussion. I'm still unsure if moving the discussion to that forum was a violation of the ] or not.
In all fairness I did not even make a deal of Nihil novi's outbursts against me:
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->
*Like here
*And here (very unkind mocking of Frania Wisniewska)
*And here
In further fairness I have never brought any party to a proceeding like this in order to censure them, block them or anything of the like. Even when I have been called some pretty outlandish things. Fortunately I was not born in a society where people who are considered "opponents" need to be stifled. At this time it would be superfluous to recapitulate the remarks made by ], who beat me to it. I'm in full agreement with his comments, and if he had not already presented them, that would have more or less my concluding remarks. It is my hope that the persons reviewing this matter will find that this case against me is motivated out of former unsettled grudges, and therefore throw this one out. Respectfully ] (]) 02:20, 30 May 2010 (UTC)


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
====Comments by others about the request concerning Dr. Dan ====
* It was I who advised Piotrus to file an Arbitration enforcement request in relation to this incident, so I will recuse from formally taking action. But my primary comment here will be to say that I do not think comments such as {{plainlinks|1=http://en.wikipedia.org/?diff=364149695&oldid=364099145|2=this}} to be acceptable. ] 23:20, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
* Some of the diffs cited above illustrate ]'s style of contributing to discussions. He is given to ] and '']'' attacks, to ] and ], to ] that conveys little substantive content but that may impress naive or inattentive readers who confuse prolixity with profundity. An ] attempt by him to challenge an opponent may be found here: . ] (]) 08:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
* Re Dan's description of NN as 'compromised, sockpuppeteer': It was I who recently posted the opinion that Nihil novi is a restart of ], at Coren's talk page and at NN's talk page , . So the responsibility for publishing this allegation is mine. Logologist as a sock puppeter was confirmed ]. Nihil novi has neither confirmed nor denied the connection. SPI forthcoming, since the sockpuppetry policy asks that restarts identify themselves if/when they reenter previous disputes. ] (]) 16:39, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


Additional comments by editor filing complaint:
=====Comments by Skäpperöd=====
;Regarding Dan's comments about Piotrus
*According to Piotrus' request above, Dan made a PA by discussing editors (not content). In fact, Dan discussed the question whether it is appropriate to continue a discussion that belongs to the article's talk page at the Poland noticeboard for the only reason to allow Piotrus to participate. That argument has merit and is not a PA. If arbcom had wanted Piotrus to participate in discussions at article talk pages, they would have unbanned him for these talk pages and not just for the Poland board.
*It is neither bad faith, nor uncivil, nor a PA to state that Piotrus is discredited and banned, because he is. In the final decision of the recent EEML arbcom case, he was desysopped, admonished for disruption, blocked and banned from topic areas he caused disruption in. To that add the prior arbcom cases which were decided in dubio pro Piotro because the evidence that led to his conviction in the EEML case was not yet available then.
;Regarding Dan's comments about Nihil novi
*That Dan addressed Nn as "compromised, sockpuppeteer" does not sound like Dan is just throwing out allegations for fun. Either, Dan has proof, or Dan mistook Nn for someone else. If the latter is the case, I am confident that he will withdraw the allegations once he is made aware, if the former is true however I am awaiting Dan substantiating the claim.
*The "satirical" part of Dan's statement (the "" remark) was actually a rebuttal of a Dan was right to ignore the PA when it was made, but he is also in his rights to point out that the absence of further such PAs is not due to Piotrus' involvement, but rather to Nn refraining from continuing making them. ] (]) 10:29, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. ] (]) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
=====Comments by Loosmark=====


===Discussion concerning AstroGuy0===
Skapperod's comments above are a bit unreal. Dan has not ''"discussed the question whether it is appropriate to continue a discussion that belongs to the article's talk page"'' as Skapperod claims above. Had he really wanted to do that he could have just said something one the lines that he feels the discussion belongs on the other talk page. Instead he launched a completely and totally unprovoked ad hominem attack calling people "discredited", "banned", "compromised", "sockpuppeteer" etc. Skapperod's interpretation of what the Arbcom wanted or did not want doesn't make sense either, please check Coren's comments on the WikiProject Poland page: , . But of course now Skapperod knows better what the ArbCom intended than a sitting arbitrator...
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by AstroGuy0====
Skapperod's claim above that Piotrus "was desysopped" is also false. Piotrus voluntary resigned his tools as soon as concerns about his actions were raised back then. Finally I have deep concerns about Skapperod's attempt to paint the ad hominem attack as some sort of "satirical" semi-innocent comment. It sets a dangerous precedent and frankly it's the last thing that topic area needs. ] 11:19, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by Iskandar323====
Further comment: I find it interesting that Skapperod, Varsovian and Deacon of Pndapetzim, all known for countless disputes with Polish editors in the past, all came here trying to get Dan off the hook by trying to divert attention on Piotrus. The reality of the matter is that the incident is in no way Piotrus' fault, he did not even mention Dan in any way shape or form, nothing - Dan started a totally unprovoked bashing of Piotrus and that is not acceptable. Period. I understand it's hard to defend Dan's ad hominem but come on blaming Piotrus seems to be a real Alice in wonderland theory. ] 14:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. ] (]) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


=====Comments by Varsovian===== ====Statement by (username)====
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
I'm holding off on my full comments until I see Dr Dan's reply. However, I do find it interesting that after he has been "banned from articles about Eastern Europe, their associated talk pages, and any process discussion about same, widely construed, for one year" Piotrus is within one year engaging in discussion about whether the subject of an article should be described as wholly or partly Polish. Is Polish nationality not connected with Eastern Europe? ] (]) 11:00, 28 May 2010 (UTC)


===Result concerning AstroGuy0===
Further comment: Could Dr Loosmark kindly refrain from his standardous comments that I am a racist? ] (]) 15:12, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''

<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
=====Comments by Deacon of Pnpadetzim=====
*<!--
Piotrus' complaint here is in violation of his topic ban... "Piotrus (talk · contribs) is topic banned from articles about Eastern Europe, their associated talk pages, and any '''process discussion''' about same, '''widely construed''', for one year. This ban is consecutive to any editing ban."] He still has most of this to serve. Piotrus' ban from this kind of thing was not negligence on ArbCom's part ... it was precisely to give the community a break from this kind of forum-shopping. To illustrate, the warning posted noted by Piotrus above comes from 2007. If Dr. Dan is to get a censure for his words--and even this would be a way over-the-top intervention--he should at least be warned. AE listing is complete overkill (and an example of the kind of escalatory tendencies which have caused so many problems in the area). So, a block for Piotrus, and closure of this thread. If an admin wishes to review Dr Dan's "incivility" independently, he should be encouraged to do so; but this thread and Piotrus' failure to deal with his "complaint" in the spirit of collegiality shows that, despite his three month ban, it is still unlikely that Piotrus is interested in anything more than getting one of his "enemies" punished. Very disappointing. ] (<small>]</small>) 14:01, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
-->

:The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. ] (]/]) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
=====Request by Sandstein=====
:I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
Editors who have been previously involved in Eastern Europe disputes (i.e., everybody above) are kindly requested to shut the hell up unless they have something useful to say. Everything which does not help administrators to decide whether and how to respond to this specific request is not useful, most especially general bickering and complaints about the user who is the subject of the request, or about other users. Editors who continue to make unhelpful comments may be banned from commenting on AE requests not concerning them. This is not a dispute resolution forum and indeed not a forum of any kind. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 17:02, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
::Given that AstroGuy0 has already been issued a warning, I don't think anything further is necessary, and will close as such unless any uninvolved admin shortly objects. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 18:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

===Result concerning Dr. Dan===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->
*Will await a statement from Dr. Dan, but I am minded to impose a civility/sarcasm parole for six months. ] (]) 09:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
** Hummphf. A "sarcasm parole" is certainly something new. . ] ] 09:11, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
*** As a rule I think civility paroles are a waste of time, but I suppose if it is felt that this user's ''only'' negative influence stems from his unpleasant way of wording comments then it's the best course of action. ] 14:17, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
****Also awaiting a statement, but in general terms I do not recommend applying any kind of parole. The community at large is already under a good conduct parole as far as this topic is concerned, as ArbCom has made very clear. Any misconduct should simply result in escalating sanctions. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 17:04, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I have reviewed the request and find it to have merit. The comments by Dr. Dan entered as evidence, and , violate Misplaced Pages's ] in that they make serious accusations against Nihil novi ("compromised, sockpuppeteer") without providing any diffs to prove them (I note that Nihil novi has never been blocked for sockpuppetry or anything else). Moreover, they are incivil and/or personal attacks against Piotrus ("banned, highly discredited") and Nihil novi ("churlish behavior as boorish", "base fawning"). It is entirely unhelpful to conduct interpersonal disputes in what seems to be a content discussion about a composer.
<p>The statement by Dr. Dan does not help his case, because he maintains that such comments are acceptable. They are not. Insofar as Dr. Dan alleges misconduct by Piotrus, Nihil novi or others, any such misconduct is not relevant to the request made against him here, and does not excuse or mitigate his own conduct, but can (if necessary) be made the subject of a separate enforcement request. In particular, while Skäpperöd points out that the "boorish" may relate to an , this does not give Dr. Dan the right to reply with attacks of his own.
<p>Contrary to what Skäpperöd says, the problematic edits are not made less problematic by being made, as Skäpperöd believes they were, in the context of a useful discussion ("whether it is appropriate to continue a discussion that belongs to the article's talk page at the Poland noticeboard for the only reason to allow Piotrus to participate") because discussing this matter does not require such accusations and attacks. Skäpperöd is also incorrect to state that "it is neither bad faith, nor uncivil, nor a PA to state that Piotrus is discredited and banned", because "discredited" is a personal opinion about the editor's merits that does not appear in any arbitral decision against Piotrus, and "banned" is shorthand for "site-banned", which Piotrus is not (he's only topic-banned).
<p>For the reasons , I believe that filing this enforcement request constitutes necessary dispute resolution and therefore does not violate Piotrus's Eastern Europe topic ban. Editors who disagree may file a separate enforcement request about this.
<p>Taking into account Dr. Dan's previous block for incivility, as well as the reminders to the community at ] and ], Dr. Dan is hereby sanctioned as follows pursuant to ]: He is blocked for 72 hours, and he is also banned from commenting on or otherwise directly interacting with Piotrus and Nihil novi for three months, except for the purpose of necessary dispute resolution (as determined by uninvolved administrators in their sole judgment). <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 08:02, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
{{hab}} {{hab}}


== Varsovian == ==Lemabeta==
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


=== Request concerning Varsovian === ===Request concerning Lemabeta===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|EF5}} 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
I've chosen not to use the AE template so as to provide a fuller account of this long story, but all the required content is here.


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Lemabeta}}<p>{{ds/log|Lemabeta}}</p>
This filing is about Varsovian further to an Arbitration Enforcement warning here then a block here then my ANI here which led to a DIGWUREN Arbitration Enforcement warning by ] on 26th April here and then most recently sanctions from ] here


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
The DIGWUREN wording is clear: "If you, Varsovian, continue to fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process (including the policies cited above), in the Eastern Europe topic area, you may be made subject to blocks, bans or other sanctions according to the cited arbitral remedy without further warning."


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
I recently took a look at ], which is where much of Varsovian's troublesome activity has been. Sadly it appears that Varsovian has returned to his old ways there despite my ANI and the consequent warning that DIGWUREN sanctions may be applied.
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
Firstly, these edits are of most concern, and their misleading edit summaries are equally troubling:
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
# - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.


In these edits, Varsovian has repeatedly re-added or defended a piece of data that other editors have contested; he has also personally synthesised this data from other pieces of information in the citation; he appears to have done this to enable him to make his own desired assertion that 'no more than 8,000 members of the Armia Krajowa were full-time armed members as of 1943' and variants of this.


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
It seems that the citation he uses does not specifically provide us with the data, but Varsovian has made his own calculations from data in the source and reached this statistic himself. While that could have been an uncontroversial breach of ] easily dealt with, the bigger problem is that the synthetic data is being used in breach of ] and ]. He appears to want to use this synthesised statistic as a weapon to compete with other editors on the page. Varsovian has been at WP far too long not to know that he was in breach of ], and that he should not have disputed other editors' problem with this material. But he continues to defend it aggressively.
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
*Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:(Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:: <small>Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. ] (]/]) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)</small>
::(RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->


===Discussion concerning Lemabeta===
Other editors cut the data because they cannot find anywhere in the citation. Varsovian is warring to keep the data in place. As can be seen from edit summaries and Talk page discussion, there's little respect by Varsovian for the normal process of consensus-building and collegiality that is the ethos of our community.
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Lemabeta====
Eventually, ] complains about all this on the talk page here and asks where Varsovian's behaviour should be reported. According to the above mentioned DIGWUREN warning, it should have been reported here at ].
Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --] (]) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


:Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are '''related but distinct concepts'''. An ''ethnographic group'' refers to a '''community of people''' defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, ''cultural heritage'' refers to the *''practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past''. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
Varsovian finally explains his rationale as to why he is reverting to keep the data in place, in response to ] here . In fact Varsovian's explanation demonstrates that his additions have been a clear case of ]. It had baffled other editors because the data was not in the citation, and yet Varsovian presents himself as if he has vindicated himself with the explanation, and moreover that he is the victim: "I would be most grateful if you could kindly refrain from calling me a liar." This is some kind of strange behavioural game, and I recognise a lot of Varsovian's behaviour in the guideline notes at ].
:So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. ] (]) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) '''emerges from''' ethnographic groups but '''does not define the group itself'''. ] (]) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. ] (]) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. ] (]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
Then, as can be seen from the discussion chain ] joins in, with a valid question: "What exactly has that number to do with the London Parade?" The question is a fair one: the data is made up, being warred over as well as irrelevant.
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning Lemabeta===
Then, something even more concerning can be observed. Having already demonstrated a breach of ], Varsovian goes on to reveal that his underlying desire is not to have any data at all: "I personally feel that information regarding size of contribution to WWII have no place at all in an article about the London victory parade" he says. So why the tendentious addition of the 8000 figure if he doesn't really care about it in the first place? It seems that by adding the data, he hopes to use it as a bargaining tool that will lead to all data being removed. Varsovian should communicate his wishes in a straightforward manner, instead of continuing to play games that could be interpreted as ], ] and possibly even ].
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''

<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
The 8000 figure is just the tip of the iceberg.
*<!--

-->
After the completion of the ANI and the warning on 26th April, I edited the "Political Controversy" section of ], up until this edit on 27th April. In response to my changes, Varsovian chose not to revert them (which was often his behaviour) but thankfully disputed them on the Talk page instead here .
* I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under ] from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". ] (] • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

*:To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:<br><nowiki>;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]</nowiki><br><nowiki><!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---></nowiki> ] (]/]) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
In his dispute, he alleges I engage in ], which is precisely what my ANI about him had just been about, and had led to his DIGWUREN warning. I chose not to report Varsovian's allegation against me at ], despite the severe DIGWUREN deterrent he is under, because I hoped it would all cool down instead.
*{{tq| Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed"}} @]: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. ] (]/]) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

*:Note that I've deleted ] as a clear G5 violation. I think ] is a bit more of a questionable G5. ] (]/]) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
Around the same time, Varsovian took up his issue about the ] at the ] page here This seems to be an attempt to ] editors in dispute with alleged Polish nationalists, to gain support at the ], to my mind in breach of ].
*:Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared&nbsp;... traditions" and "shared&nbsp;... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". ] (]/]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

*:@]: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. ] (]/]) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
There was then an ANI about off-topic incivility at the Chopin talk page here which could probably been reported here at ] instead.
*:@]: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. ] (]/]) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

*:@]: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. ] (]/]) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
Varsovian's Talk page dispute with my edit of ] failed to gain any support whatsoever. Between my edit on 27th April until 18th May my edit seems to have proven generally uncontroversial, and in broadly in keeping with consensus. There were edits by other editors, and Varsovian reverted several of them.
*:@]: They were "reviously given&nbsp;... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. ] (]/]) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

* {{re|Lemabeta}} Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words {{tqq| highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity}}. There's a reason we use the words "]" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?){{pb}}This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
Two weeks after my edit and Varsovian's talk page dispute of it, he still hadn't gained even one voice of support, while the edit history indicates that my edit seems to have been largely in keeping with consensus. But Varsovian disregards that, and states he is going to go ahead and apply his desired changes anyway: . ] protests, and a very long fight ensues between them on the talk page.
*{{u|EF5}}, I don't understand your {{tq|"Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above"}} statement, can you please explain what it refers to? ]? Lemabeta's block log is blank.

:That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by ]. I'll AGF that they ''were'' accidental, but OTOH, they surely ''ought'' to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? ] &#124; ] 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
Despite Loosmark's opposition to Varsovian's proposed changes, Varsovian carries on regardless. Early on he attacks me directly in this edit summary , alleging my use of bold text in a block quote is a case of me manipulating the source: "Removing false claim that source emphasizes certain information" he says.
::{{u|EF5}}, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are ], and the block log only logs blocks. ] &#124; ] 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).

I made a "false claim" by bolding some text within a block quote? A more helpful edit would have been to add "" at the end of the quote, as per WP guidance. Varsovian's incivility was unnecessary, in defiance of the DIGWUREN warning, and seemingly an attempt to provoke my reaction. I didn't react. But a week later, Varsovian is back again, and rips out the entire block quote, including the citation that I had transcribed it from:

All of the above demonstrates Varsovian's unwillingness to learn or to change his ways, and his wilful contempt for the ethos of our community. I am reporting all this in keeping with Administrator guidance at the ANI and the DIGWUREN warning, both linked above. I hereby request enforcement.

I have not recently looked up Varsovian's behaviour elsewhere, other than what is mentioned here, but I have been troubled by Varsovian's edits at other Poland-related articles. I defer to Administrators' judgement, but I am aware that my request is needed here. Given the issue now is less about attempting to improve Varsovian's behaviour, and more about preventing him from damaging Misplaced Pages, I would have to recommend a ban. -] (]) 01:17, 29 May 2010 (UTC)


:::'''Additional note''': I have just seen a thread (dated after Varsovian's DIGWUREN warnings) at the ] talk page where Varsovian seems to indicate his general, long term axe to grind: where Varsovian says "I'm sure that it will be unacceptable to certain editors (who all just so happen to be of a certain nationality)." The innuendo is unequivocally a generalised pre-judgement about Wikipedians from Poland and a massive breach of ] if not ]. ] replies with a comment about the "anti-Polish" gang, when instead he should have said nothing and taken it up here at ]. Varsovian's immediate response: "Could you perhaps refrain from accusing other editors of being racists? Thanks in advance." Later in the Chopin talk page, Varsovian spells out his feelings with a list of Poles who he says many Poles deny are Polish because they don't fit Polish national myth. These denials by Poles might after investigation turn out to be verifiable, but Varsovian's apparent pre-judgement and generalization about Wikipedians from Poland is unacceptable. He goes on to imply Polish nationalism is motivating some Wikipedians here . This is equally as unacceptable as it would be to allege ] on talk pages. Now, the cause of anti-nationalism is a noble one, but it should not compromise fundamental Misplaced Pages standards. I am saddened that Varsovian is still stuck on the same mission, because much time ago I took the step of expressing my heartfelt concerns here and here . This was an opportunity for Varsovian to see the problem. But Varsovian took offence, and said the latter was an accusation of racism, here and in so doing dismissed my concerns as unreasonable. That was all a long time ago, and Varsovian has had plenty of opportunities to change, but his actions prove that he hasn't. There is a wider policy issue for Misplaced Pages, beyond this case, and I would like to know if it is addressed in WP guidance somewhere. Especially in the WP Eastern Europe topic area, we should be as vigilant about the assumption of nationalism as we are about nationalism itself. The former can be used as sport, to provoke nationalistic responses. Remember that ] fought a noble fight against American communism, and yet he himself was probably the single US citizen most obsessed with American communism. He made his own monsters in order to slay them. History indicates his moral crusade was less than candid. -] (]) 10:55, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

=== Discussion concerning Varsovian ===

==== Statement by Varsovian ====
Please note that I am actually out of the office (and so limited to posting on my iPhone, which makes searching and copy pasting rather tricky) until at least Monday of the week after next, not thursday of next week. However as the last time I explained that to a certain admin, that admin decided to ignor my statement and sanction me anyway (despite giving me one hour from my next '''edit''' to provide information he requested), I fully expect to be perma-banned by the time I next log on from my computer. Which means that a certain somebody will have won the content dispute and can write the article exactly how he wants it to be. ] (]) 16:16, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

==== Comments by others about the request concerning Varsovian ====

=== Result concerning Varsovian ===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
Standard header structure added and awaiting statement by {{userlinks|Varsovian}}. He has indicated on his talk page that he is unable to edit until Thursday, so this request should be held until then or until he edits again. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 05:04, 29 May 2010 (UTC) (Fake timestamp to prevent archiving: <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 00:01, 3 June 2010 (UTC))

== Wikifan12345 et al ==

{{hat|Lev Reitblat, ChrisO and Wikifan12345 banned from editing ] and associated talk page for 14 days by HJ Mitchell}}

===Request concerning Wikifan12345 et al===
<div style="float:right; margin: 5px; padding: 2px; border: solid black 2px">Related discussions:
* ]
* ]
* ]
* (archived) ]
* (archived) ]
* (archived)
</div>
; User requesting enforcement :
* ] (]) 09:18, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested :
* {{userlinks|Wikifan12345}}
* {{userlinks|Jiujitsuguy}}
* {{userlinks|Lev Reitblat}}
* {{iplinks|98.233.73.108}}

;Sanction or remedy that this user violated :
* ].
* Also violations of ], ], ], ], ]

; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
# (Wikifan12345) Addition of self-published source for commentary on living person, in contravention of ]
# (Wikifan12345) Addition of defamatory claim that the subject of the article "allowed dozens of black people who were unfairly tried to be executed" and comparison to ]
# (Wikifan12345) Restoration of the above after it was removed on BLP grounds with no consensus to restore
# (Jiujitsuguy) Restoration of the above with no consensus to restore
# (Jiujitsuguy) Restoration of the above with false claim of "Rv vandalism"; violates 1RR in the process.
# (Lev Reitblat) Restoration of the above with no consensus to restore
# (98.233.73.108) Restoration of the above by one of the above editors while logged out to evade 1RR
# (Lev Reitblat) Restoration of the above with no consensus to restore

; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
* Wikifan12345 - , ,
* Jiujitsuguy - ,
* Lev Reitblat - ,

;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) :
*Article ban for editors listed above, indefinite topic ban for Wikifan12345

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
This request relates to a biography of ], a South African judge and leading anti-apartheid figure, who has also headed the UN war crimes tribunals and various UN commissions. He has recently attracted controversy for a report on the ]. On 6 May 2010, the Israeli tabloid newspaper ''Yedioth Ahrinot'' (YA), which has been very critical of Goldstone's report, published claims about his record in South Africa that are contradicted by the overwhelming majority of previous sources, are plainly wrong in fact, and that have been rejected by the man himself and by his judicial colleagues in South Africa. A ] reached no consensus about the suitability of YA as a source and it was widely considered unsuitable to source ].

A number of editors have repeatedly sought to edit-war this material into the article and, in addition, add material sourced to WorldNetDaily, unequivocally an unreliable source (per numerous BLP/N discussions); self-published material in violation of ]; a malicious and defamatory quote comparing Goldstone with the Nazi war criminal ]; and a malicious and defamatory quote relating to a fringe individual's attempts to ban Goldstone from entering the US; the latter are violations of BLP's avoidance of biased or malicious content and claims that rely on guilt by association. These issues are discussed in more detail at ]. In the subsequent discussion, a substantial majority of editors (including virtually every uninvolved editor) agreed that none of this content should be included.

] states explicitly that "'''consensus must be obtained first'''" (emphasis added) before restoring content deleted due to good-faith BLP objections. This has been ignored repeatedly by Wikifan12345, Lev Reitblat and Juijitsuguy and 98.233.73.108. They have made no attempt to pursue ], or in Juijitsuguy's case even to participate on the talk page, but have attempted to bulldoze the content into the article without consensus and over the objections of the majority of editors.

In addition, the editors listed above have consistently pursued a hostile approach to other editors and to me in particular. I have done a great deal of work to expand and improve the article using numerous academic works, journals and contemporary news articles (compare and ). The revised version has been welcomed by most editors, including all the uninvolved ones who have commented. The editors above have responded with a constant stream of denunciations, sarcasm, assumptions of bad faith, personal attacks and unrelenting hostility. Wikifan12345 has been by far the worst in this regard; the following is just a sample:

* Wikifan12345: , ", , ,

Wikifan12345 has a long history of disruption and was topic-banned from the entire Israel-Palestine topic area for much of 2009. He has been by far the most disruptive and hostile editor on this article. He is exhibiting exactly the same behaviour that got him topic-banned last year (see and ). This from nearly a year ago documents identical problems and from last July perfectly describes his behaviour here: ''"His editing and use of sources is poor, he reverts constantly, and filibusters on talk pages, making normal editing close to impossible on whatever page he's working on. When thwarted, he reverts to insults."'' His mentor has recently advised him not to violate civility but he has continued regardless. He's had enough warnings but shows no sign of changing his behaviour.

Jiujitsuguy was blocked for wilfully violating a 1RR restriction in force on this article, and was previously blocked for "3RR and endless aggressive edits" in this topic area.

Lev Reitblat is a new single-purpose account, created on 14 May 2010, and has edited nothing other than his own talk page and this article. The account looks extremely socky. (Another involved editor, {{userlinks|Momma's Little Helper}}, was recently blocked as a sockpuppet of ]. It would not surprise me if this was a reincarnation.)

98.233.73.108 is clearly one of the above editors trying to evade the 1RR limit by editing while logged out. The timing suggests that it is probably Lev Reitblat.

Trying to deal with these editors has been an incredibly frustrating experience. I have done my best to answer their queries. Uninvolved editors have attempted to get them to suggest changes to my rewrite of the article, other than merely restoring the removed content. However, it's clear that they reject entirely any BLP or sourcing concerns. They reject out of hand everything that I have added to the article, apparently because it does not fit with their evident hatred of the article's subject. They denounce my rewrite as "fluff" without ever saying what they object to. They falsely accuse me of "eliminating all criticism" despite the fact that I've . They are consistently hostile, incivil and tendentious. They disregard BLP's requirements. Several of them have repeatedly restored material removed because of BLP concerns, even though they know there is no consensus to restore it as required by BLP, and in one instance violating a 1RR restriction.

These , an uninvolved editor, sums up the situation. This can only be resolved by article- or topic-banning these disruptive editors so that those of us who aren't trying to re-fight the Arab-Israeli conflict on a South African judge's biography can get on with editing peacefully.

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :

* Wikifan12345
* Jiujitsuguy
* Lev Reitblat
* 98.233.73.108

===Discussion concerning Wikifan12345 et al===

====Statement by Wikifan12345====

ChrisO has been threatening numerous editors at Goldstone with arbitration for questioning his edits. I really don't like being constantly threatened with sanctions in talk over ''basic content dispute''. I've ceased editing the article for now and have regulated the dispute to talk. I can't gauge the goal of this AE other than removing disputing editors from the article permanently. This has almost become a cliche. Content dispute, arbitration request, arbitration closed, repeat ad nauseum. Why bother? Can't we resolve disputes without banning other editors from the show? ] (]) 11:12, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

edit: I actually decided to read Chris' wikilawyering post in its entirety. I vehemently reject his personal attacks and his attempt to paint me as some rogue editor. I have not been the most vocal editor nor "disruptive." Chris has been extremely hostile and dismissive to me and others, and routinely accuses editors of trying to smear Goldstone and being a part of a witch-hunt to taint his legacy. It's becoming extremely frustrating and the whole process wreaks of fear-mongering.

ChrisO came into the article and removed nearly 4 paragraphs worth of information with a very, very weak rationale. Apparently many users supported this, others did not - and since then Chris has been trying to silence users who support edits that may conflict with his own version. This is unacceptable. I might have reservations about the articles' present status but I'm not gonna try and ban editors who don't agree with me. Is this not a serious abuse of the wikipedia process - using AE as a means to censor other users? If ChrisO was genuinely interested in collaborating on Goldstone and gaining a legitimate consensus, he would first go to dispute resolution before trying to ban others. I also don't understand why he has selected me specifically. There is nothing particularly controversial or unique about my statements - several users in talk have the same issues I do. I wasn't the first. ] (]) 11:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Even if we assume the most extreme interpretation, we're dealing with talk-based incivility. As demonstrated by numerous diffs, it seems many other editors in talk could potentially be topic-banned, including you - if we apply your methodology. This whole situation has been exacerbated by constantly relying on enforcement-systems to settle content disputes. I didn't come into the article and unilateral remove paragraphs of information, then send most of the users in talk who disagree with me to AE. ] (]) 19:45, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
: This isn't solely about talk-page incivility. The focus of my complaint, and the most serious issue here, is the way that you and the other editors I listed above have repeatedly violated ] by repeatedly attempting to bulldoze content that was removed for BLP reasons back into the article without consensus. You haven't even acknowledged that there are any BLP concerns. Many editors disagree with you. It's absolutely not acceptable to simply ignore good-faith BLP concerns. -- ] (]) 19:57, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:: ChrisO, that's moving the goalposts. Wikifan12345 has not edited the article for several days, so there is no basis for admin action against Wikifan for BLP violations, if he's not even putting anything into the article right now. We're not going to block someone for something they did weeks ago. As for talkpage incivility, yes, there are definitely problems, but if we're going to take administrative action because of it, we would probably take action against all editors involved, which would include yourself. Better, at this point, would probably be to try and wipe the slate clean, and then take action if there are any future incidents. In fact, I know I would see it as a very positive sign if everyone would review their comments on the talkpage, and refactor/remove anything inappropriate. That would probably be very helpful towards de-escalating this dispute. --]]] 20:18, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
::: Perhaps if I wasn't constantly being threatened with topic-bans in general content disputes I would be more inclined to assume good faith Chris. I don't think it is so outrageous to show concern over extreme unilateral editing. You replaced pages of content with your own research, and dismissed critics as being part of a campaign to smear Goldstone. How can we collaborate when the talk page has been divided into a zero-sum game? This a seriously one-sided AE. If I'm topic-banned there are loads of other users in talk that reiterated my complaints and could be potentially topic-banned. ] (]) 20:26, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::: Why is expanding an article a bad thing? This is one of the main problems we have had with this article. You have been consistently hostile towards my editing, denouncing the well-sourced, relevant material I added as "fluff". Yet you have not once said what you consider to be wrong with it. The impression I get from your approach is that you disapprove of adding anything that does not fit with your picture of Goldstone as (to quote your favourite commentator) "an evil, evil man". That is not a basis for productive editing. -- ] (]) 22:47, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
::::: Nothing hostile about denouncing fluff as fluff. I wasn't the first person to say this. You removed practically 3 pages worth of information, and replaced it with your version unilaterally. Then you edit-warred anyone who tried to restore cited information, claiming it was a BLP violation. You first said the paragraphs were removed because they were predicated on unreliable sources. This was false, only a single sentence was supported by world net daily. You removed the Jpost, haaretz, and ynet information without any sort of reasoning beyond blanket policy links. I and others were very explicit about what we saw wrong with the article. One of our biggest disputes was over Alan Dershowitz. You repeatedly referred to him as a fringe, extreme and partisan activist. Dershowitz has been one of the most vocal and cited critics of Goldstone, it is totally bizarre to deny him a voice. You clinged to the Nazi-analogy, but a user provided this that includes serious, non-emotional commentary on Goldstone as a judge (not simply the report). It seems the discussion has been less about the article and more about what Chris wants. You've shown questionable ownership issues and its become impossible to suggest anything remotely controversial without being accused of trying to smear Goldstone and taint his legacy as a judge in Apartheid South Africa. IMO, the article reads as if Goldstone himself wrote it. ] (]) 23:07, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::: Let me ask you one simple question. How much research have you done about Goldstone's career prior to his Gaza report? -- ] (]) 23:17, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
::::::: Can you not respond to my post above? Do you disagree with what I'm saying? As far as Goldstone goes, I didn't even know he existed prior to the Goldstone report. '''Did you edit''' the article before the report was released? ] (]) 23:40, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::::: No, and I have no interest in his report. My interest is in his career relating to South Africa and Yugoslavia. But your admission that you knew nothing about Goldstone is a perfect example of what is wrong with your approach to this article and to Misplaced Pages in general. I have done a great deal of research on the subject. You have apparently done little or none. I have expanded the article considerably using academic works, legal reviews, contemporary news reports and South African sources. You have constantly denigrated and rejected that work. I would understand it if we were disagreeing on some point of fact, because then we could have a reasonable discussion. But your disagreement is based purely on personal opinion and prejudice against the article's subject. You object to the material because it feels wrong to you - it doesn't conform to your view of Goldstone. You haven't identified any specific fact you object to because you don't know enough to dispute the facts. Instead you complain vaguely about "fluff" without ever specifying what you object to. You present nothing with which anyone can engage with you. I've made arguments from solidly researched fact, which I can cite at length. You constantly make arguments based on ignorance and prejudice. That is the antithesis of what a Wikipedian should do. -- ] (]) 23:57, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:: I think you are confused ChrisO. I never said I didn't do any research on Goldstone or know nothing about the man - rather, I didn't know who he was until the Goldstone report. Most people didn't know who he was. Did you know who he was prior to the Goldstone report? I don't see any edits by you prior to his appointment by the UNHRC. Obviously you have no interest in the report because you have removed everything of substance about his collaboration with the UN out of the article. I've come to understand this over time. And no, I have not constantly rejected your edits. I have said nothing about your draft that you researched all on your own, so don't get offended because I failed to congratulate you. What I have objected to, as you should know - is your refusal to admit information that is controversial even if it is supported by reliable sources. I am an inclusionist and don't think information should be removed simply because it might make Goldstone not look like the perfect apartheid judge as he was. The fact that you inferred users who didn't tow the line as being part of a smear campaign is suspect as well. I'm not here to get other editors banned, yet you continue to make this dispute personal when it isn't. This is not a minority opinion - many users have similar concerns. Are they all wrong Chris? ] (]) 00:08, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

====Statement by Jiujitsuguy ====
Real world obligations have prevented me from responding sooner. My sole contributions to this article were two reverts within 24-hours. I was unaware (my fault for not paying closer attention to my Talk page) of the 1R restriction and received a sanction of a 24-hour block. I have not made an edit to the article since and intend to abide by the 1R restriction.--] (]) 02:26, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

====Statement by Lev Reitblat ====
1RR is the only restriction on the disputed article and I’ve never violated it. WP:BLP is a stronger restriction, if it was applied there were no sense for applying 1RR. So the fact that the only mentioned restriction is 1RR proves that WP:BLP is not a case. It’s a very strange situation when a person gets a notification not to apply a reversion more than 1 time in 24 hours and is send on Arbitration enforcement for exactly 1 reverse per 24 hours

====Statement by 98.233.73.108 ====

====Comments by others about the request concerning Wikifan12345 et al====
;'''Comment by cptnono'''
There were mistakes all around and this list could be longer or shorter depending on your tolerance. Chriso might have been overprotective of his edits and some of what Wikifan referred to does happen. He of course should have worded it much nicer since an extra pointed word or two in an edit summary is enough to set editor's off in this topic area (that includes me). Since this is not about Chriso, I'm going to mention my thoughts on Jujitsuguy. It is no secret that I see the good in his edits even though I have seen him hit the revert button when he shouldn't. Since he was ] there should be no worries unless he does it again.

The talk page could have gone much better. The article is still in desperate need of some reworking to limit ] and to get some of that sourced criticism (better in a chronological order instead of a separate section) in. Disagree that defamation is a problem overall. Some sources are OK and some aren't. I'm surprised that some of the sources were written off.] (]) 10:35, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

:Just to clarify, the focus of my enforcement request is about editorial behaviour, not the quality of sources. We have established routes (noticeboards, dispute resolution etc) to address the latter issue. The problem here is with the behaviour of four editors who persistently deny that there is any BLP issue to address, who have been systematically disruptive and incivil in Wikifan12345's case, and who have repeatedly sought to bulldoze content into an article after it has been removed on good-faith BLP grounds which a majority of editors and virtually all uninvolved editors have supported. That is an absolutely textbook example of incivility, disruptive editing and violating BLP's consensus requirements. It's been going on for about two weeks now, there have been plenty of warnings and requests of the editors concerned, and in Wikifan12345's case there have been literally years of prior warnings and conduct restrictions, which he has learned nothing from. -- ] (]) 11:08, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Do I need to post your AE at the beginning of the discussion? I am not edit warring, engaging in PA, nor have I threatened other users with banishment. And no, not all users here are looking to restore the 4 paragraphs you removed in one sweep entirely. In fact, I agreed with the consensus that the Chomsky quote was a BLP violation. Rather, I disagreed with the misrepresentation of content claiming it was '''all''' supported by WND, which in reality only a single sentence was supported by WND. Jpost and Haaretz are all reliable sources. You claimed Ynet was a "tabloid" newspaper and unreliable, which is simply not the case. You and others also claimed Dershowitz was a "fringe" and "extremist" which again is simply not true. Consider my presence in the article and talk discussion suspended for now, I don't have time for this. I can't be looking over my shoulder, waiting for an AE case every time I get into a content dispute with ChrisO. ] (]) 11:39, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
::::Withdrawing from the article "for now" is not a solution. You've been behaving unacceptably disruptively for a very long time; the community has shown you an incredible amount of patience, which you've not reciprocated. Your topic ban in 2009 should have sent you the message that you need to change your behaviour. You haven't, and frankly I don't think you're either willing or able to change. That's why I've advocated a permanent topic ban. It's needed because you will just turn up somewhere else doing the same thing until someone finally deals with you. How many last chances do you need? -- ] (]) 11:48, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
::And I still "''Disagree that defamation is a problem overall.''" And I assume continuously stating that it was good faith BLP doesn't help his frustration when bulldozing could be seen both ways. Does not excuse it. If those comments were bad enough to warrant an indef is something I dispute but that luckily isn't my place here. ] (]) 11:15, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::Well, in the case of Wikifan12345 the reason I'm proposing an indefinite topic-ban is because he has a long history of this sort of behaviour; he's repeatedly been blocked and had a five-month topic ban which ended only a few months ago. His comments here are merely indicative of a long-term pattern of behaviour. If you look at the discussion which preceded his topic ban, you can see that he was banned for exactly the same kind of behaviour as that which I've being documented above. We expect editors to learn from blocks and topic bans. Wikifan12345 has evidently learned nothing as he has continued to behave in exactly the same way. At some point you just have to say "enough is enough". -- ] (]) 11:25, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
::::I hear you there (look at my previous thoughts on another editor here for example) but do not agree that those comments were nearly enough for an indef in the topic area. That might be because I have seen worse or because I completely agree with why he was frustrated in the first place. Also, is a checkuser on Lev Reitblat and 98.233.73.108 within AEs power? JJG has received his block and another Wikifan's is open to some sort of debate but if either tried to buck the system that is enough to warrant some trouble. I will be really disappointed if it was either of them and want to give them the benefit of the doubt.] (]) 11:33, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::An admin, HJ Mitchell, has suggested a CU and another admin, Georgewilliamherbert, has said he wouldn't oppose it (]). I have no particular preference either way but if it's to be done, I think it would make sense to do it in conjunction with this enforcement request. -- ] (]) 11:37, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

;'''Comment by No More Mr Nice Guy'''
ChrisO forgot to mention that an uninvolved admin who protected the page said some of this information should be allowed into the article , but he, as OWNer, refused to allow it. This is obviously a content/WP:OWN dispute. ] (]) 11:04, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

:HJ Mitchell can advise but he's bound by consensus, as are the rest of us, and there is a clear consensus against including the disputed material - plus his premise that all criticism is being suppressed is completely untrue, as I pointed out in my reply to him. But that's a side issue - the four editors in question have not sought to restore "some of this information", they have sought to restore it ''all'' against the opposition of a majority of editors and virtually all uninvolved editors. ] is very clear that consensus '''must be obtained''' before content deleted on BLP grounds is restored. This has been pointed out many times by myself and others, to no effect. -- ] (]) 11:08, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
::You were presenting a rather one sided account of events, so I added some information as to what a genuinely uninvoled admin said about the issue.
::While I agree that restoring ''all'' of it is too much, you won't allow ''any'' of it in the article. ] (]) 11:45, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::^^Exactly. I was never in favor of restoring all of the content, and I don't think any editor in the discussion supported such a thought. However, some editors can't justify the deletion of 4 entire paragraphs that are supported by reliable sources. Anything that conflicts with ChrisO' unilateral editing is dismissed, and editors who continue to disagree are shipped to AE. Continuing to rely on wiki-punishment system to settle content disputes makes it hard to assume good faith. ] (]) 11:53, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::I've explained why I don't think it belongs in the article. It's up to the editors who want to see it to propose an alternative version and to get consensus for its inclusion. I'm happy to discuss that. So far none of you have bothered to do that and the only edits to the article relating to this issue have been repeated attempts to stick it all back in against the existing consensus for exclusion. -- ] (]) 11:51, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

;'''Comment by Nomoskedasticity'''
I expect that the reception of this request will be colored in part by the fact that it is ChrisO who has made it. I think it would be unfortunate if that sort of concern dominated this discussion. I was headed towards AN/I myself concerning Lev Reitblat, who received good advice re editing BLPs but has showed a rather recalcitrant attitude, on his own talk page and in his article edits. AE might be premature for Jiujitsuguy; the block seems to have gotten his attention. As for Wikifan12345, I think the comments regarding filibustering, insults, and hampering of normal editing are spot on, and it is extremely frustrating to see this kind of persistent behavior. ] (]) 11:09, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
;'''Comment by E. Ripley'''
At its heart, this is a dispute about the adequacy of sourcing and appropriateness of including very contentious claims on a BLP, which has been made almost intractable by the volume of uncivil accusations and snide personal remarks on the talk page by people on both sides of the argument. My own involvement has been primarily attempting to get people on the "include" side to make a real attempt at engaging in fruitful content discussions, which routinely were ignored in favor of more heated rhetoric.

As it currently stands, I believe the question of whether Yediot can be used to source the contentious claims it has made has been resolved as a no. Very contentious claims require very reliable sourcing and Yediot does not qualify; this was made clear with the discussion at the ], which at best resulted in no consensus -- to my mind, the level of disagreement exhibited there means Yediot can't be considered a "very reliable source" for this purpose. The BLP guidelines clearly state that when information has been removed as a good-faith BLP violation, which this was, a consensus must be gathered to re-add the information. That consensus has not appeared -- opinions are very clearly split, which means until a stronger consensus to include emerges, we should err on the side of exclusion. In that sense, people who have been edit warring to re-include the disputed information are behaving contrary to policies. To the extent that a content dispute remains, it involves whether it is appropriate to reference the incident that Yediot reported on not by using Yediot as the primary source, but by noting that other outlets that can be considered reliable have mentioned the Yediot story, or mentioned Goldstone's refutation of the accusations, absent any new reporting on their part to try to verify or refute the original claims. There is also no consensus on this topic, with the sides breaking down as before.

ChrisO has made some regrettably intemperate remarks and his passion for the subject has at times led him to flirt with some ] issues. However his position has been one of erring on the side of caution, which I personally believe is appropriate in the absence of a strong consensus, and I believe his intentions are good.

Of the group Chris has accused in this request, Wikifan12345 has been the most recalcitrant and sharp-tongued (although I would add, for steaming up the talk page, No More Mr. Nice Guy and before, Momma's Little Helper (since banned as a sock) have done just as much to help derail productive debate). Jiujitsuguy and Lev Reitman have helped exacerbate stability problems on the article through reverting over the past couple of days but as relative newcomers I'm not sure their activities rise to the level of disruption -- particularly on the talk page -- exhibited by others in this group.

My own suggestion would be to again query RSN and possibly BLPN to ask whether other uninvolved editors believe it is appropriate to include anything about the flap over Yediot's original claims (including Goldstone's denial), sourced to more reliable sources, or whether the questionable nature of Yediot's reliability, since it so far is the sole source asserting the veracity of the claims, should be enough to keep any specific reference to the claims out entirely. If a strong consensus to include arises, or if opinions are again split, then I think an administrator should enforce the community's decision in either helping to craft something referencing the flap, or to enforce the BLP policy about requiring information removed as a BLP violation to garner a consensus before it is re-included, depending on how the opinion goes. &mdash; ]\<sup>]</sup> 15:06, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

:Referring the matter back to the BLPN is a good suggestion, and I note that there is an ongoing discussion about a case which is exactly parallel to this one - Jimbo Wales himself has posted an important contribution. See ]. -- ] (]) 15:29, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
::Referring to BLPN again would make sense only if the involved editors stayed off the thread; someone uninvolved should be the one to post the query as well. I'm slightly doubtful in any event; it was there once, with results as described by e.ripley, and the I/P editors seemingly took no notice (to me, that is the most frustrating aspect here) -- it's not clear to me how/why it would work out differently after another round. ] (]) 15:54, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::The reason to list again is because it's materially a different question. The answer being sought is not whether Yediot is a reliable source for the information, but rather whether Yediot as a sole source is so unreliable that it's not appropriate to include other reliable sources referencing the conflict, or even referencing Goldstone's denial, in the absence of any new reporting that would substantiate or refute Yediot's original claim. I agree that it would be best for comments to be restricted to uninvolved editors, but I don't see how that could realistically be achieved. &mdash; ]\<sup>]</sup> 17:08, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
::::I have raised this at ]. Jimbo Wales has posted a comment that I think should be read by all parties here. -- ] (]) 17:56, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

;'''Comment by Danger'''
To clarify, my statement to Wikifan on his talk page should not be construed to mean that I believe his behavior is the sole disruptive force in this situation. I am agnostic regarding the behavior of the other involved editors. In my capacity as mentor, I commented solely on Wikifan's behavior, since I have no reason or standing to evaluate the behavior of the other editors in this dispute.--] (]) 16:13, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
;'''Comment by Breein1007'''
In the nature of AE, I think we need to look deeper into ChrisO's role in this issue. There is a serious problem in the pattern of editing he has displayed recently both in relation to the Goldstone article and stemming to the Israeli-Arab conflict in general. Aside from the ] mentality mentioned above as well as severely hostile and incivil comments to people he disagrees with, there are a few other things that remain unsolved. Since I started seeing ChrisO's name appear in articles that I edit, I have noticed that he is using ] as a tool of intimidation against editors with whom he is in dispute. He has given the template to a handful of editors recently, all of whom he was heavily involved with. First of all, the template is clear: it is only effective if given by an admin. Second, after drama ensued regarding his giving of these logs contrary to the template, he went ahead and unilaterally changed the wording of the template to remove the requirement for an admin to give it! Since then, an admin has reverted his change, and a conversation has developed on the talk page of ARBPIA concerning whether or not the admin requirement should stand. Through the duration of this conversation, where a majority of editors and admins have commented that it is an important and necessary requirement, ChrisO has continued to use the template as a tool of intimidation, notifying additional editors. Furthermore, he has recently followed another editor to an AfD and voted against him after having another dispute with him. I find it highly unlikely that he randomly found his way to that editors AfD after never having contact with him before. This is just another example of the ] mentality that ChrisO is accusing all these other editors of demonstrating. What's particularly troubling is that ChrisO is no stranger to the Arab-Israel conflict on Misplaced Pages, and has been reprimanded by ARBCOM in the past for his role in I-A issues, along with others, which eventually led to him being desysoped as an admin. However, the behaviour appears to be continuing and something needs to be done to stop it. Taking a voluntary 2 week break from Goldstone will not send the message, I'm afraid. ] (]) 17:34, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:And just to add, before ChrisO gave the ARBPIA template to one of the editors, he even asked admin HJ Mitchell on his talk page to do it, because he knew that an admin has to do it for it to be effective. HJ Mitchell responded that he would think about it, and since that wasn't good enough for ChrisO, ChrisO went ahead and did it himself.
:Also, just to note, ChrisO was warned against "rubbing salt into wounds" by admin HJ Mitchell a few days ago on his talk page, but since then has continued to be incivil and attack other editors. It appears the warning did not accomplish anything. ] (]) 17:40, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
::This is a dishonest and selective account. Breein1007 omits to mention that he was blocked for 24 hours for deleting notifications (he was not one of the notified editors); that the notifications were endorsed by another administrator; and that his complaints were rejected by another administrator. See ]. -- ] (]) 17:53, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::That is absolutely not dishonest and does not excuse any of your behaviour that I mentioned in my comment. The fact that I got blocked for 24 hours for reverting your notifications does not have any bearing on your actions. Just because I got blocked for reverting your notifications, does not mean you should have given them in the first place. I will repeat: using the ARBPIA template as a method of intimidation is despicably inappropriate and '''several''' admins and editors have agreed with this on the ARBPIA talk page. Meanwhile, you have continued to use the template against editors with whom you are in dispute. Furthermore, if we are going to give the full story regarding my block, we will note that it was enforced by an admin with whom I am heavily involved and who has consistently shown his dislike for me in the past, even going so far as to threaten to block me for being a sockpuppet when it was completely unwarranted. I will be addressing this issue in the appropriate forum shortly, but we are focusing on you and the editors that you brought up here, not me. And my complaints were not rejected by any administrator. You are the one being dishonest here. You linked to an AN/I where I did not post even one comment. I have yet to make my complaints public, and when they do, we will see what happens. Until then, nobody has rejected anything. ] (]) 18:01, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
::::Your complaint was posted to ] and was rejected, as I said. -- ] (]) 18:03, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::Sorry, no. I am not going to complain to Georgewilliamherbert about something that Georgewilliamherbert did wrong. I decided to give George a chance to comment on his actions before I brought the matter to other admins and the community to investigate. That does not mean anything was rejected. What exactly do you think I was expecting George to do - accept my complaint and reprimand himself? This is getting ridiculous. You are ignoring everything that has to do with you in this case and only commenting on things that have to do with me and are therefore unimportant in this AE. As such, I'm going to leave now and will give you the great pleasure of having the last word. But for the record, you have yet to speak for '''any''' of the horrible behaviour you have demonstrated, and only attempted to defend yourself by smearing me. ] (]) 18:07, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:Needless to say, I reject your baseless claims of "intimidation". Informing editors that articles are under a set of restrictions is something that should be done as a matter of course as a way of avoiding any future misunderstandings. I've notified probably hundreds of editors of various arbitration restrictions without spurious complaints of "intimidation". One of the problems throughout this issue is the way certain editors - you are one of them - have consistently assumed bad faith. This is just more of the same. -- ]

;'''Comment by Sean.hoyland'''
I would like to thank ChrisO for his efforts and patience despite the typical provocations, unpleasant behavior and general nonsense that are unfortunately commonplace on the BLP talk pages for people who have criticised the actions of the State of Israel since Operation Cast Lead as part of their professional duties. I also commend his attempts to remind editors that they must comply with the sanctions.
Someone said AE is premature for Jiujitsuguy. It isn't. Can someone please have a word with him to make him understand that Misplaced Pages is not a battlefield in the I-P conflict. I find the comments below particularly inappropriate.
* ]
* ]
I was the one who submitted the SPI against Momma's Little Helper and while in theory I strongly object to being cast as a combatant in I-P conflict for doing so, in reality I couldn't care less. However, what I do object to is the rabble-rousing and general battlefield attitude. That isn't just Jiujitsuguy of course. There isn't a single editor who has advocated inclusion of this material that should be going anywhere near the Goldstone article. The sanctions quite clearly say "''Editors who find it difficult to edit a particular article or topic from a neutral point of view and adhere to other Misplaced Pages policies are counseled that they may sometimes need or wish to step away temporarily from that article or subject area.''" Perhaps it should say "''are counseled that they will be topic banned''" because people clearly aren't getting the message. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - ''']'''</small> 18:09, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:Just to clarify something, I have no interest whatsoever in the Gaza conflict. My involvement with the article was prompted by following a link from ] - a topic in which I ''do'' have an interest. -- ] (]) 18:20, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
::Well, exactly, it doesn't matter. Anyone, no matter whether it's Gandhi, an artificial intelligence machine or an editor who foolishly wanders into the warzone, anyone who tries to simply apply policy in an article within scope of the Israel-Palestine conflict will eventually find that they have apparently inadvertently joined Hamas and become a Palestinian militant (or part of the "" on Misplaced Pages as the RS JPost puts it) without even applying for membership or they've somehow become an evil censor/part of a conspiracy standing in the way of the truth in a righteous battle. It's puzzling, it's nonsense and it has to stop. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">''']''' - ''']'''</small> 19:17, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

=== Additional commentary in response to administrators ===
:::: In response to HJ, I'm willing to take a voluntary two-week break from the article from the end of today (I'm currently doing some work on it on issues unrelated to the dispute at hand). However, I continue to believe that a permanent topic ban is warranted for Wikifan12345 given that his conduct indisputably is a continuation of the behaviour for which he has previously been warned, blocked and topic-banned. (Not sure which section to post this in - please move it as needed.) -- ] (]) 14:08, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

===Result concerning Wikifan12345 et al===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->
:: I am still looking into this, but do agree that {{user|Lev Reitblat}} appears to be a single-purpose account that is engaging in edit wars at the article. The single-purpose nature may not necessarily be a problem, but the reverts are, so I have asked him, informally, to abide by 0RR for awhile to try and help stabilize things. --]]] 13:04, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:: (continuation) Considering that Wikifan has not edited the article since May 17, I see no reason for any kind of page or topic ban. However, I do agree that the rhetoric at the talkpage, from multiple editors, has been getting out of hand. I am especially concerned by these comments by ChrisO, such as accusing another editor of "juvenile hysterics", being "obsessive", having "adolescent tantrums", or being "blinded by hatred". To be fair, ChrisO has been refactoring some of his comments, but it's not helpful to the editing environment to make comments such as those. All editors should be strongly encouraged to keep comments focused strictly on the article, not on other editors. If there are any further personal attacks, then the relevant editors may risk temporary bans from the talkpage. --]]] 13:30, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::I believe ChrisO is complaining about Wikifan's talk page conduct. I've spent the best part of two weeks trying to deal with this mess and while I'm not best pleased that ChrisO has chosen to go over my head, I think a few relatively short page bans might help to improve the quality of the discussion. I'd like to see someone file an SPI to find out who the 2 IPs are with a view to page banning their owners. I suggest a page ban of around 2 weeks for all those named by ChrisO above with the exception of Jujitsuguy who has already served a 24 hour block ''and'' for ChrisO in order that the less vocal editors can voice an opinion without being shouted down by those who disagree with them. I say this without bias for or against any party, but I think it would be best for the quality of the discussion on the talk page if these editors were to take an enforced break from the article and its talk page. ] &#124; ] 13:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::: When you say "2 IPs", which ones exactly are being referred to? --]]] 13:58, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::{{ip|98.233.73.108}} () and {{ip|208.54.7.175}} (), who both showed up during the 1RR sanction and reverted each other, basically. The timing suggests perhaps two people who logged out to revert in order not to get caught violating the 1RR restriction. (I apologize for answering here as I'm not an administrator, but it seemed an appropriate place.) &mdash; ]\<sup>]</sup> 14:19, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
:::::: Thank you for the information. It might indeed be worth filing a report at ]; however, it might also be moot since the ] article is currently under indefinite semi-protection. This means that new and anonymous editors could not edit the article even if they wanted to. So that particular problem (people logging out to revert) is not going to recur. --]]] 20:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Regarding HJ Mitchell's suggestion, I personally feel it's a bit extreme, but neither is it completely unreasonable. Just to spell things out, if we followed this course of action, it would mean the following:
: The editors on the below list (sorted alphabetically) would be banned from editing the ] article, and also banned from participating at ], for two weeks:
:* {{user|ChrisO}}
:* <s>{{user|Jiujitsuguy}}</s>
:* {{user|Lev Reitblat}}
:* {{user|Wikifan12345}}

: What about discussions at other ] locations, such as at ] and ]? Would the ban extend to there as well? Note I'm still not saying that I'm fully in support of this idea, but it can't hurt to think it through. --]]] 20:41, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
::I think just the article and its talk page would be sufficient. I don't really think it's extreme- it's less severe than the action ChrisO requests and my hope is that it would give everyone an opportunity to calm down and perhaps focus their energy in less contentious areas. In the meantime, the less vocal editors might be able to get a word in edgeways on the talk page. ] &#124; ] 00:26, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
::: It sounds like a reasonable action to take, and I have no serious objections. I'd say go ahead and make it so, effective immediately. Let me know if you'd like help with the paperwork. --]]] 02:08, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
::: I've removed Jiujitsuguy from the list, since I noticed that you said the ban was not necessary on that account. --]]] 02:29, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
::::Agree with the temporary articles bans. ] (]) 15:40, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
*I've notified all three editors of the ban and logged it. ] &#124; ] 17:21, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
** Looks good. Might also want to post a note at ] to let the editors there know. Also, is the article still under 1RR (and does it have an expiration date?). --]]] 17:31, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
***Will do. The 1RR is indefinite, but I'll lift it as soon as it's not necessary. Considering it was protected for 9 days and there have already been 3 blocks for violations of it, I'd say it's too soon to be thinking about getting rid of it. ] &#124; ] 17:50, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
****]. ] &#124; ] 18:03, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
{{hab}}

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    PerspicazHistorian

    PerspicazHistorian is blocked indefinitely from mainspace. Seraphimblade 03:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

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    Request concerning PerspicazHistorian

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    PerspicazHistorian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

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    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBIPA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 17:57, 18 December 2024 - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of Hindutva (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
    2. 17:59, 18 December 2024 - tag bombed the highly vetted Hindutva article without any discussion or reason
    3. 10:15, 18 December 2024 - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
    4. 12:11, 18 December 2024 - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting reverted
    5. 17:09, 18 December 2024 - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
    6. 18:29, 18 December 2024 - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
    7. 14:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP."
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    • Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. Nxcrypto Message 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit here by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to MOS:TERRORIST. Nxcrypto Message 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by PerspicazHistorian

    • By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu Page.

    I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before User: Ratnahastin told me about this: User_talk:PerspicazHistorian. Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.

    • In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to Edit_warring#What_edit_warring_is it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of Misplaced Pages:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle.
    • As a clarification to my edit on Students' Islamic Movement of India, it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this edit. I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
    @Valereee, Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What edit warring is#Other revert rules. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes, I will commit to that. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. Seraphimblade 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when Satish R. Devane was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Hi @Doug Weller , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
    P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.Valereee (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • 1) I just asked an user @Fylindfotberserk if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
    2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    even @NXcrypto is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. see1see2 PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    as mentioned by @Valereee before, Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Valereee I once filed a complaint to find it @NXcrypto is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) moving to correct section Valereee (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
    2) My main interest in editing is Hinduism and Indian History topics.
    3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
    Please do not block me. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @Bishonen I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Vanamonde93@Bishonen I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned here. PPicazHist (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee@UtherSRG I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
      The article prasada doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about Misplaced Pages:CIR, I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! PPicazHist (talk) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
      @UtherSRG You mean to say, "The prasada is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, fruits and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the temple. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. " is not copy pasted by this website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? PPicazHist (talk) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
      @ UtherSRG I just asked others to share their opinion in the enforcement. With all due respect, I don't think its wrong in any sense. PPicazHist (talk) 15:13, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
      To all the admins involved here,
      • I agree to keep learning and apologize if my previous edits/replies have annoyed the admins.
      • I have not edit warred since a month and please see it as my willingness to keep learning and getting better.
      • Please give me a chance, I understand concern of you all and respect your opinion in the matter. But please don't block me from editing from main article space. I promise that I will abide by all the rules and will learn from other editors.
      PPicazHist (talk) 15:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by LukeEmily

    PerspicazHistorian also violated WP:BRD by engaging in an edit war with Ratnahastin who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.LukeEmily (talk)

    Statement by Doug Weller

    I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and User:Deb's comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving Draft:Satish R. Devane to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. Deb (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. Doug Weller talk 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... Doug Weller talk 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Toddy1

    This is another editor who appears to have pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-Republican views, but allowed Democrat-activists to say whatever they liked.

    A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.

    If we want to talk about WP:CIR when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .

    A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.

    I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Capitals00

    I find the comment from Toddy1 to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like False or misleading statements by Donald Trump.

    You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user only for your own mental relief. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "seek to censor" this editor due to his "pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure WP:BOOMERANG is coming for you. Capitals00 (talk) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Vanamonde93

    Toddy1: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.

    That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. This edit is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. Baji Pasalkar, entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ("first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya", and poor sources (like this blog, and this book, whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. Appa (title), also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.

    I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. Bishonen If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by UtherSRG

    I've mostly dealt with PH around Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ankur Warikoo (2nd nomination). They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the standard offer when they can demonstrate they no longer have WP:CIR issues. - UtherSRG (talk) 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    Based on these two edits, I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in WP:CIR territory here. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    This is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning PerspicazHistorian

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    PerspicazHistorian, can you explain your understanding of WP:edit warring and the WP:3RR rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring even if they aren't breaking 3RR. Valereee (talk) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    @PerspicazHistorian, that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is the first time someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
    Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH; in their revert NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. Valereee (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? Valereee (talk) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. Valereee (talk) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. Valereee (talk) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources. The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit yesterday, after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
    The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. Valereee (talk) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    • A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. Bishonen | tålk 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
      Vanamonde93, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we are in CIR territory; just look at PH's recent supposed evidence on this page for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. Bishonen | tålk 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
    • Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? Barkeep49 (talk) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
      I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • It looks to me like there is a consensus for an indefinite partial block for PerspicazHistorian from article space. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within a day or so, I will close as such. Seraphimblade 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
      Given PH's recent slew of requests on multiple admin talk pages, yes, please do. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    References

    1. "Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God". GaneshaSpeaks. Retrieved 2024-12-30.
    2. "What Is Prashad". Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj. Retrieved 2024-12-30.

    LaylaCares

    There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning LaylaCares

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Vice regent (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    LaylaCares (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ARBPIA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 13:54, December 17, 2024 EC gaming


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of this article on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).VR (Please ping on reply) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning LaylaCares

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by LaylaCares

    Statement by Aquillion

    Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be WP:G5-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail on the CSD talk page, since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --Aquillion (talk) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Dan Murphy

    Please look at Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.Dan Murphy (talk) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by starship.paint

    I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, click this link. starship.paint (talk / cont) 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning LaylaCares

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Aquillion: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      I don't think the wording of WP:ECR allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. (ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.) That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making real, substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. Seraphimblade 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag is an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    AstroGuy0

    AstroGuy0 has been issued a warning for source misrepresentation by Voorts. No other reviewers have expressed any wish for further action. Seraphimblade 06:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning AstroGuy0

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Hemiauchenia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    AstroGuy0 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics/Race and intelligence

    (Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour")

    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 03:19, 4 January 2025 Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once.
    2. 01:40, 4 January 2025 Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani"
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Made aware of contentious topics criterion: 01:52, 4 January 2025
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Additional comments by editor filing complaint:

    This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Discussion concerning AstroGuy0

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by AstroGuy0

    Statement by Iskandar323

    This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. Iskandar323 (talk) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning AstroGuy0

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. Seraphimblade 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Given that AstroGuy0 has already been issued a warning, I don't think anything further is necessary, and will close as such unless any uninvolved admin shortly objects. Seraphimblade 18:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    Lemabeta

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Lemabeta

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    EF5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Lemabeta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 5 Jan 2025 - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
    2. 4 Jan 2025 - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. EF 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. EF 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Here

    Discussion concerning Lemabeta

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Lemabeta

    Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --Lemabeta (talk) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are related but distinct concepts. An ethnographic group refers to a community of people defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, cultural heritage refers to the *practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
    So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) emerges from ethnographic groups but does not define the group itself. Lemabeta (talk) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. Lemabeta (talk) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Lemabeta

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under a topic ban imposed by a consensus of AE admins from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:
      ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
      <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> voorts (talk/contributions) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" @Lemabeta: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Note that I've deleted Draft:Rachvelians as a clear G5 violation. I think Mate Albutashvili is a bit more of a questionable G5. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared ... traditions" and "shared ... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". voorts (talk/contributions) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Tamzin: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @EF5: They were "reviously given ... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Lemabeta: Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity. There's a reason we use the words "broadly construed" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?)This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • EF5, I don't understand your "Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above" statement, can you please explain what it refers to? This T-ban? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
    That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by their apology for "accidental violations". I'll AGF that they were accidental, but OTOH, they surely ought to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? Bishonen | tålk 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
    EF5, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are very different, and the block log only logs blocks. Bishonen | tålk 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).