User talk:Jimbo Wales: Difference between revisions

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	'''NOTE:''' There are many discussions going on here that would probably be more productive over at commons. If you're interested in commons policy, the best way to influence it is to participate at commons. :-) Let's gradually (no need to dramatically shut things down here) try to migrate discussions of commons over to commons.--] (]) 15:31, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
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			{{Notice\|1={{Center\|1='''Jimbo welcomes your comments and updates – he has an ].'''<br />
			'''He holds the founder's seat on the ]'s .<br />The current ] occupying "community-selected" seats are ], ], ] and ].<br />The Wikimedia Foundation's Lead Manager of Trust and Safety is ].'''}}}}
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			{{annual readership}}
			{{Press
			\| subject = talkpage
			\| author = Matthew Gault
			\| title = Misplaced Pages Editors Very Mad About Jimmy Wales' NFT of a Misplaced Pages Edit
			\| org = ]
			\| url = https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjbkvm/wikipedia-editors-very-mad-about-jimmy-waless-nft-of-a-wikipedia-edit
			\| date = 8 December 2021
			\| quote = The trouble began when Wales posted an announcement about the auction on his user talk page—a kind of message board where users communicate directly with each other.
			}}
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	== Més que un usuario award ==

	Hi Jimbo! I'm from it.wiki, in this season will deliver the ''Award G. Deulofleu - Més que un usuario'' and I need a great host for my event, you have no job, I will do everything, I just need your permission to write your name as a special guest. If you agree just send me a confirmation-message in , and you add in the section ''madrina/padrino'', I would love to have you with me virtually, Ciao. 22:52, 5 June 2010 (CEST) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) </span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	== List of Scientologists RFC ==

	Hi Jimbo- I am the person who started the RFC on the List of Scientologists. Thank you for participating in the RFC. I suggested that given the controvery around scientology and the real world consequences of being associated with it, that the best criteria for inclusion on the list is to have reliable sources showing people '''self-identifying as scientologists'''. There seems to be a lot of support for this approach on the RFC thus far. In the mean time however, two users Cirt and Coffeepusher done over 100 edits on the list in the last 48 hours. Someone else suggested that they were advancing an agenda. I hate to put myself in the middle of it but I am now inclined to agree. In your comment you suggested that the two sides are talking past each other. I think it is more a case of one side is ignoring the main question of the RFC. I read the policy about disruptive editing and saw ]. That certainly seems to be the case on this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:List_of_Scientologists#Please_leave_as_a_list_until_the_RfC_process_has_completed I hope you would be willing to come back and weigh in on this specific issue. Thank you for your time and consideration. ] (]) 03:47, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
	:Jimbo, {{user\|Jayen466}} and I have come to an agreement regarding the nature of the list page, and I agree with his recent comments, and . Jayen466 commented on the formatting changes that I have made to the article, '''' Jayen466 commented with regards to an amicable solution, having a subsection on the page for those that participated in courses, '''' I agree with this. This is the best and most logical way forward. :) Cheers, -- ''']''' (]) 04:24, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
	::I think that this is the bare minimum that is necessary. It is not at all clear to me that a listing of course participants is actually in any way encyclopedic, but I will have to review the list and see what I think of it. I have friends, now in Misplaced Pages, who at age 18 or 20 or whatever got persuaded to take a single Scientology course, found that they weren't interested (or, perhaps, found the whole thing to be fundamentally wrong), and never went back. Such people might, at some point, mention this to a reporter and it gets mentioned somewhere. It would be absolutely wrong to refer to such a person as a former Scientologist, but it would also be irrelevant and pointless to put them on a list.
	::Do we treat other religions in this way? Do we have a list of people who have attended a Catholic mass? How about a list of people who attended a Catholic baptism prep course of some kind? I just don't see the relevance of such trivia. It certainly isn't likely to be relevant to the biography of someone (unless it is relevant, i.e. they identify the class and rejection of Scientology as a turning point in life, for example). And it seems not very relevant to Scientology.
	::But I will review the list and think about it more - my opinion here is unsettled.
	::I should add that, of course, I'm interested in this issue as an ordinary editor and as one of dozens of examples that I like to study when I think about BLP issues - but I'm not making any kind of special ruling and people shouldn't cite this opinion of mine as policy or as being particularly special in any way.--] (]) 16:34, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
	::'''Addendum''': Having reviewed now the 4 who are listed as "Course participants" I don't have a problem with it. Enough information is given to see why it is relevant to the lives of the people involved (although in most cases, I would argue that it doesn't belong in their biography) and why it is relevant to our understanding of Scientology as a movement (i.e. what do some prominent people say about why they took a course, and why they didn't go on to become a Scientologist).
	::I am still concerned about the abstract case I mentioned before. I am thinking now of my own life: if I had taken a course when I was 20 (I didn't!), it would be completely irrelevant to anything today.--] (]) 16:40, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
	:::'''' Thank you. I agree with this. We can deal with "abstract cases", when and if they crop up, though I do not foresee that occurring. The issue is whether or not secondary sources satisfying ] and ] provide enough context as you have described, and this is satisfied in these cases. Cheers, -- ''']''' (]) 17:19, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

	== Invitation to the ] ==

	{\| style="background-color: #dfeff3; border: 4px solid #bddff2; width:100%" cellpadding="5"
	\|]
	Hi Jimmy,<br />
	You may recall that I invited you to register for the Guild of Copy Editors May 2010 Backlog Elimination Drive. You were pretty busy and did not respond to the invitation. I wanted to let you know that during that drive, we cleared all the <nowiki>{{copyedit}}</nowiki> tags from 2007, and in this next drive, starting in July, we aim to clear all of 2008. It would draw significant attention to the project if you signed up on our participation page, and after the drive begins, symbolically copyedited a single article. As I know you're busy, I'm sure we can find a short one for you. I know that you prefer "quality over quantity," and this will significantly increase the quality of the articles currently available. The event page is at ]. Please consider accepting our invitation. <big>]</big><small><sup>]</sup></small> 07:21, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
	\|]
	\|}
	== Content noticeboard discussion ==

	I've started a ] on the best way to handle explicit images of bondage practices. I think we have three choices here in en:Misplaced Pages -- display them openly (the status quo), put them into a collapsible gallery, or replace them with a link to a relevant Commons category. Each of these has potential advantages and drawbacks. As you've expressed an interest in these issues in the past, I thought you might like to comment. --'''<font color="#0000FF">]</font><font color=" #FFBF00">]</font>''' 12:11, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

	== Planned ==

	Hallo Jimbo. This revision should not be introduced. That is a feature which violates not only ] – how one language in an international project can be more important than another? – it's also dangerous. It is endorsing – very surely unintended but indeed it does – chauvinism, racism and discrimination. Therefore such a software feature should not be activated. Please consult this with the WMF board and please do everything that such (or any similar) mechanism will never be part of the software. Thanks. --] (]) 16:10, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

	:Could you tell me what the feature does and why you are opposed to it? I read the page but I didn't understand. "dangerous", "chauvinism, racism, and discrimination" - I'm not sure that your outrage is helpful here. Don't tell me what conclusion I should reach: give me an NPOV summary of what the situation is. :-) --] (]) 16:23, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

			== Happy New Year to Misplaced Pages's Founder! ==
	::The new feature limits the interwiki links in the left column on five entries (if there are no more than eight, then all will be shown). So who and what determines which iw-language-links will be provided? The biggest WPs per number of articles? Per number of active users? Per page views? Per browser presetted values? E.g. ] (let's climb together) exists in about 40 WP languages. If the per default output is limited to five, say DE, EN, FR, ES and PL for all other language versions another click will be necessary to open a drop down.
	::Why? Is the Bengali or Mandarin chinese language less important than any of the above? Is any of the about 33 remaining language lesser then any of those mentioned in the example?
	::Do we really want discussions why per default (in my example) PL is shown directly but RU or PT could be reached only after clicking those small triangles for pulling down the whole list? I don't think that Misplaced Pages should do anything what could imply that there might be class A+ WP language versions and class B wp language versions. --] (]) 16:54, 10 June 2010 (UTC) (having tried my best to report the issue NPOV but having failed)
	:::If you take a look at the comments in the diff you link to, you'll see this:
	+ // This is a list of languages in order of Misplaced Pages project size. This is the lowest fallback for choosing
	+ // which links to show in the primary list. Ideally the browser's accept-language headers should steer this
	+ // list, and we should fallback on a site configured (MediaWiki:Common.js) list of prefered languages.
	:::I think that answers your questions on how the links will be prioritised. It seems like a good method to me. It's not about determining the importance of different languages. It is about determining their utility. Clearly, the best way to determine which languages will be useful to a user is to let them tell you, via their accept-language headers. Failing that, you let each project determine which other languages their users typically speak (this isn't very useful for English, but it is for much other languages). That should never fail, but a good programmer would never make that assumption, so a fallback is included, based on which projects are most likely to have good articles on a topic (project size is a very crude metric for that, but since it shouldn't be used much it isn't worth the effort of coming up with a better one). --] (]) 17:06, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
	:::So to make sure I understand: if I show up on a page, 5 languages (chosen either by the project in the usual consensus way, or if they haven't done that yet, chosen by simple algorithm) will be displayed by default, but to see the rest, I'll need to click on the little triangle to expand the list?--] (]) 17:10, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
	::::It has received much discussion. See - - ] (]) 17:33, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

			Happy New Year Jimbo Wales! Wish you luck in 2025! ] (]) 03:13, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
	== Appeal ==

			==]==
	I want to appeal to Jimbo Wales as a last resort, please. I have been permanently banned from es.wikipedia es.wikipedia don't have procedures to protect against arbitrariness and has installed a single thought. In my expulsion there has been no discussion or evidence, there has been coercion from blog. Mi removal is only due to my thinking, there have been acts against wikipedia or their rules, only talk. Misplaced Pages is part of an American foundation and america is a country of freedom of thought and talk. The local Misplaced Pages can not be different. .] (]) 16:37, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
			]
			]
			Happy New Year Jimbo!!! I hope all is well with you and your team.

			Could you or your page watchers help me with ]? The draft has been declined and tagged up. It was then deleted years ago. I had it restored today after I came across one of his photos. I think he and his photography are fascinating for capturing aspects of New Zealand's transportation and industrial history. His work is in museum and library collections. At least one of his photographs has been used in a book. He photographed Maori sites.
	== We are two peas in a pod, Jimbo ==

			], standing beside a collection of Maori carvings, including two fire-screens, carved by her father Albert Percy Godber]]
	:Jimbo, I'm with you, man. This is an educational project, but one glance at the images being added to the site shows that people, under the guise of "Misplaced Pages is not censored", have decided to turn the website into an ever growing pile of smut. <br>
			I'm sorry I haven't been able to work the draft up enough to get it admitted to mainspace. It does make me wonder about what we do and don't include, our notability criteria, Articles for Creation (AfC) process, and collaborative ethos. Thanks so much for any help or guidance you can offer! Have a great 2025 and beyond. Thanks again. ] (]) 17:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
	:Misplaced Pages in many ways is a democratic institution, but democracy is like a fire. It's the backbone of civilization, heating homes, cooking food, and active in our internal combustion engines that transport us on our daily commutes. But that fire must be contained and controlled. When fire spreads uncontrollably it is destructive. Democracy, too, while good for our daily lives, is destructive when not controlled. That's why the ancient Greeks feared a mobocracy. <br>
			:If Godber is not ], which is what the draft reviewers say, then Wikipedians can't fix that. ] (]) 09:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
	:That's why the founders of America limited democracy to a representative form. That's why the unbridled fire of democracy now plagues us with the Tea Party. It's why we're plagued with reality TV. And now it's why Misplaced Pages is overrun with vandalism, pornography, and laymen posing as defenders of free speech. <br>
			::] is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? ] (]) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
	:Just yesterday the voters of South Carolina made Alvin Greene, a bum with no job and pending felony sexual misconduct charges, the Democratic candidate for the Senate. The mob is out of control, ousting established leaders for bums. Now you to are seeing your power taken away and thrown into the hands of bums, many of whom also don't work and would like to turn Misplaced Pages into a virtual repository of sexual misconduct. <br>
			:::I dunno, but ] wrote that the draft did not show significant coverage about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject at that point. ] (]) 19:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
	:I support you, and I support you not giving up your power, but using your power to be a check against the mob. If not you, then someone or some small group that still has its heads on straight, must be the voice of reason, must be the philosopher-kings, the Supreme Court, if you will, when the layman-kings of Misplaced Pages attempt to tear down in days what took years to build. Keep fighting the good fight, my good friend. ] (]) 17:51, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
			]
	::I've not given up any power - be careful what you read in the media, they often misunderstand what is going on around here. :-) --] (]) 20:59, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
			::::And this a request to revisit his finding. We have a photographer from more than 100 years ago who documented areas of New Zealand's North Island. We have his work in a National Library collection. We have his work discussed as iconic for one of his Maori related photographs. We have his work revisited in a 2018 exhibition. We have descriptions of him related to his photographs, his career, and we have the photos themselves documenting the areas industries, sites, infrastructure from more than 100 years ago. If I was satisfied with the previous conclusions I would not be here. So I ask again, should we have an entry on this subject? Should we just attribute his photos where we use them to an unlinked name with no explanation or discussion of who he was? I think the answer is clear, and I wanted to hear Jimbo's opinion. I am aware of what was previously stated. Years have passed and I believe it's time to reevaluate and consider. I also think it's worth reflecting on our article creations processes more generally and how we apply our conception of "notability". ] (]) 23:33, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	::Ah, South Carolina. The same state that has an adulterer as a governor, Jim DeMint as a senator (can't really make jokes about Jim DeMint, as the best comedy is the fact he's Jim DeMint), and had the Confederate Flag on the State Capitol until very recently. Greene's just par for the course, really. That said, there is a reason why we say that "Misplaced Pages is not censored"; if we did, we'd be removing relevant images from articles based on the whims of the prudish; something we learnt full well ]. That said, we do go over the top... perhaps we should instruct people to not use more images than absolutely necessary? It's a good idea, and not one that could be solely limited to articles about sex. ''']''' <sup>(])</sup> 18:31, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
			*Godber's photographs include "views of the ] including large numbers of cars traveling to ], and the ]. Another group of images relate to a holiday at the ] Homestead in ] with scenes of farm life, including ], ] sheep, and farm buildings. During their stay in the South Island Godber also took photographs of Dunedin (including the ], ], ], the ], and the Hillside Railway Workshops); ] (including the Invercargill Railway Workshops); Stewart Island, ], ], ], ] and ]. Various railway stations in Canterbury and Otago, the ], and the Rosslyn Mills. Godber was a volunteer fireman with the Petone Fire Brigade with the album including views of the building, groups of firemen, fire engines and other fire fighting equipment, and a building in Petone damaged by fire. In his work with New Zealand Railways, mainly at the Petone Railway Workshops, he took interior photographs of various buildings, including the Machine Shop and finishing benches, the engine room, lathes, boilers, and fitting shops. He also took photographs of many of the steam engines that were built and worked on at the workshops. One scene shows a group of men watching a fight. Many images show his interest in logging railways, particularly in the ], ], ] area. Scenes of logging camps, various methods of transporting logs including bullock teams, logging trains, and dams created and then tripped to send logs down by river, and timber mills. Other topics covered in Godber's photographs are scenes at Maori ] and meeting houses, with some of the people identified; Maori carving and rafter designs; beekeeping, and gold mining." ] (]) 23:52, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	:::Don't we do that already ? Just because we HAVE images, does not mean we insert all of them in a single article. Having images however is needed in order to make good editorial selections of images. This is something many people are forgetting. Having 40 images of vulva's is not a problem. Using 40 images of vulva's in 1 article is. —] (] • ]) 19:59, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
			*It's hard to choose which photos to share. Historic views areas, industries, bridges, natural features, railways and bridges, crafts. to his photos on Misplaced Pages Commons. Many already illustrate our entries on various subjects. ] (]) 00:01, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
	:::I too must confess that I was misled by the media into believing that you had relinquished any power, Jimbo. I am much relieved to hear that this is not so. I really should have known better since the media consistently gets the fact of you being the sole founder incorrect. But I am confused as to why you have allowed the pornographic images you deleted to be reinstated? Perhaps you could demonstrate your power by having those images redeleted? ] (]) 21:43, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
			:: If you really want to help him, get a couple stories published about him in newspapers. Notability here will follow. ] (]) 01:23, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

	== ~~New~~ ~~interface~~ ==		== Just wanted to say ==
	Hello, Jimbo. Is there any way you could force the staff to revert the latest interface change or at least pay more attention to what is going on? People are outraged. Many users claim they avoid using Misplaced Pages now, because of the recent changes.{{Fact}} <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 19:20, 10 June 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:Are they not aware of the "Take me back" link at the top of every page? Or are anonymous users? ] 20:52, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
	::Just couldn't resist adding the citation needed tag a la xkcd :)] (]) 21:33, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

			You have created something valuable to everyone on the Internet. I'm sure you get this a lot, but thank you. <br>It may sound weird, but Misplaced Pages has helped me through some tough times. We can never thank you enough for this sometimes infighting, sometimes peaceful, sometimes divided, but always united community You are the backbone of the <s>cabal of editors</s> <b>thriving community</b> that is Misplaced Pages.
	== Teaching with Misplaced Pages ==
			I wish I could give you a BarnMilkyWay but no one's come up with that, apparently. (]) \| (PS: Have a good day) 00:49, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

			== ==
	After hearing your interview with ''The Chronicle of Higher Education'', I thought you might like to read an essay that three Misplaced Pages editors who are also academics have written about ways to teach with Misplaced Pages and what questions it raises: ]. ] (]) 21:20, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

			For the interested. ] (]) 10:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
	== How does one appeal an unofficial block? ==

			:Summary: {{tq\|This document intends to show the problematic situation in Hebrew Misplaced Pages (hewiki), and provide evidence that it has been overtaken by a group of mostly religious and nationalist editors, who prevent others from achieving higher permissions while promoting their own allies.}} –] <small>(])</small> 22:38, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
	I’m sorry to bother you, Mr. Wales, but I need your advice about how to handle something that I can’t find explained at any policy pages.

			== Happy new year ==
	Earlier today, I was blocked for two weeks by the admin ], with the explanation “for repeated edit warring, WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT, disruptive editing, and assumptions of bad faith.” I’m not aware of having engaged in any of these behaviors recently, had not been recently warned about any of them, and there aren’t any recent discussions about this at any admin noticeboards, so I asked for my block to be reviewed. I also mentioned in my unblock request that since I was an involved party in the ], I should not be prevented from participating in it. After I’d been blocked for around three hours, the blocking admin unblocked me with the explanation that this was so I could participate in the arbitration case, but that I’m still banned from editing all other pages. The discussion about this is at the bottom of my user talk page.

			Good days, Jimbo. I'd like to say that Chinese Misplaced Pages is introducing ARBCOM System currently, since Arbcom on this project, and in fact all the project is originated from the idea of yours, do you have any opinion for that? Any hints, advice or suggestions? ] 15:43, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
	Since as far as I know I haven’t done anything to warrant these sanctions, I would still like to appeal 2over0’s decision to ban me from editing everything but the arbitration pages. But since he’s technically granted my unblock request, I can’t make use of the template to ask that my block be reviewed in order to appeal this decision. I have two questions about this that I’d appreciate you answering. First, is it standard for a user to be blocked without any discussion or warning like this, so that they aren’t aware of what specific conduct they’ve been blocked for; and for the blocking admin to grant an unblock request while also stating that the formerly blocked user is still banned from editing all but a small group of pages? And assuming that this sort of unofficial block is a normal course of action for admins here, what are the normal channels for appealing it? --] (]) 01:24, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
	:This is an interesting case that may be worth mentioning here because it involves the issue of how to handle a topic (] and several related articles) when the underlying science is poorly established and where the topic attracts people who have learned how Misplaced Pages works: they know to be civil; they know how to argue that their source complies with policy; they know not to stray over ]. The issue confronting Misplaced Pages is more general than this case because in time enthusiasts will learn how to get along here, and they may make it very hard to maintain ] on certain classes of articles because a small number of enthusiasts can overwhelm the one or two editors who may better represent NPOV (for example, there have been 939 edits to ] since April 1, and the talk page and archives 76–81 total over 1.1 million characters since January 11). ] (]) 02:06, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

			== ==
	::Incidentally, if asking about this here is one way for my block to be appealed, I guess I’d like to do that. Now that I can no longer request that my block be reviewed using the template for that, the only other option that 2over0 has mentioned for how to do this is by posting a thread about it at AN/I. And I’d really rather not start another AN/I thread about this, since you’ve probably noticed how threads there about articles related to race and intelligence tend to degenerate into pointless arguments where it’s impossible to obtain a consensus about anything.

			That doesn't sound good. From '']''. ] (]) 09:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	::I’m not really sure what I ought to say here with regard to appealing this block, since I still don’t completely understand what the reasons for it were. But David.Kane and WavePart have both disputed the validity of this block on 2over0’s talk page ], and I agree with their comments about it. --] (]) 02:18, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
	;{{ec}} Outside opinion
	To justify blocks based on content-based issues, I think it important that ] should be provided, with rationale. This assists other editors in assessing whether there is a substantiated problem. Having said that, while there is a pending ArbCom case, one should expect a general moratorium on editing until the issue is resolved, from all parties. There is no particular reason why disputes should continue to be pursued until there is a resolution, and in fact, continuing to do so merely clouds the waters and makes the situation all the harder to deal with. Although passionate beliefs are commonly expressed here, once an article comes within the jurisdiction of ArbCom, some introspection appears to be worthwhile. This is on the basis that if your interpretation and use of ] is acceptable, editors ]. On the other hand, those ] without regard to ] should not be surprised by the imposition of sanctions. ]] 02:26, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

			:Being discussed at ]. ] (]) 10:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	:My history with Occam is only per my recent involvement at ], however, I have to say this is the first block I've seen that provides no diffs supporting the itemizing of disruptive actions. I assume actions at this article are the source of the block (unclear), but I have not seen disruptive behavior there on the part of Occam. Nor do I see what purpose the block has. Editors are attempting to get back to the article and away from the mediation angst (which precipitated the arbitration for which commenting Occam was selectively unblocked) and are back to discussing issues, including the results as such of the mediation, at article talk. What acts are punished by Occam's block? None--the article is currently protected so the only activity has been discussion of content, which has been civil (if opinionated) by all. What is the purpose of allowing Occam to comment at the arbitration? Only to continue the conflict, and enough has been said there already. So:
			::Thanks! ] (]) 11:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	:# block with no diffs or mention of articles?
			::Also discussed at ] and ]. ] (]) 19:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	:# but a copious list of (unreferenced) bad behaviors?
	:# and a selective unblock which only allows for continuation of conflict?
	:# when there is no immediately discernable behavior which merited a block?
	:This really does need to be overturned, it's not helping; it accomplishes nothing except the escalation of bad faith. ]<small> ►]</small> 04:10, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
	::The consensus in ] is this block was inappropriate, and according to ImperfectlyInformed, 2over0 actually does not have the authority to impose it. If 2over0 does not have the authority to impose this sanction, should I regard it as invalid? Or do I need to still respect it regardless, until 2over0 (or another admin) specifically tells me that it’s been revoked? --] (]) 04:31, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

			Jimbo, could I ask you please to respond to from {{u\|Tryptofish}}?
	Have you tried groveling? A good 75 percent of admin reply very well to that. Some do have good intentions and will base their decision on merit alone but they are like Condors. Not seen often. ] (]) 04:19, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
			:... it's not just if you've edited about Israel-Palestine. It could be if you've edited anything about climate and fossil fuels, gender, immigration, vaccines, and of course, American politics. I doubt that they have the bandwidth to actually identify and harass every editor who could possibly be seen as editing information that goes against a MAGA POV, but they will likely find some easily identified targets, whom they will use to "set an example", as a way of instilling fear in our editing community. I fully expect that, in the coming months, {{u\|Jimbo Wales}} will be hauled before a hostile and performative Congressional hearing, much in the manner of university presidents. I hope very much that he will be better prepared than ] was.
	:That really is unhelpful. Admins are perhaps under more scrutiny than other editors, and are perfectly aware of that. Grovelling isn't, in my experience, likely to achieve an unblock when the reasons for blocking are clear, and the reasons for unblocking do not address the issues of the block. That, of course, depends on the blocking admin giving at least a basic reason for the block. That is what the templates are for, and in my experience, very much most of them are not even challenged, and when they are, I can't remember a single instance in which a block of mine has been overturned on its merits. If "grovelling" means subscribing to our policies and guidelines, so what? If you disagree with them, you are free to discuss changes, but don't be surprised of you encounter some opposition: that's the nature of a democratic community. ]] 04:36, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
			:Yeah, I know this is grim. But I believe the first step in dealing with this is to go into it with our eyes open, to know what we are dealing with, what motivates it. And, more than harming individual editors, the real objective of Heritage ''et al.'' is to instill fear in the rest of us. If we become too fearful to revert POV edits, they win. In a very real sense, we have to keep doing what we have been doing, and continue to be a reliable resource for NPOV information. --] (]) 18:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
			] (]) 05:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

			:Well, I fully agree that developments in terms of arguments and actions aimed at destroying trust in knowledge (and of course our specific interest, trust in Misplaced Pages) are extremely worrisome, particularly as I agree that for many who are doing it, the motive does appears to be the undermining of civic norms and democracy. I also agree with Tryptofish in a part that you didn't quote: "In a narrow sense, it's technically true that if you "out" yourself, there's no point in anyone else doing it. But once your identity is known, you become vulnerable to all of the kinds of real-life harassment that doxed people find themselves subjected to. It doesn't matter, in that regard, how they found out your identity." That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.
	:So this would slightly be off topic but since in your own words "I can't remember a single instance in which a block of mine has been overturned on its merits" does this mean that they have been lifted by groveling? ] (]) 04:49, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
			:As a side note, I don't think that the reliability of the Heritage Foundation as a source is particularly related to these despicable actions. Whether they should be considered a reliable source in some matters is really unrelated to whether they hate us or not.--] (]) 14:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
			::Suddenly ] going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. ] (]) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 11:51, 11 January 2025

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Happy New Year to Misplaced Pages's Founder!

Happy New Year Jimbo Wales! Wish you luck in 2025! Gooners Fan in North London (talk) 03:13, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Albert Percy Godber

Happy New Year Jimbo!!! I hope all is well with you and your team.

Could you or your page watchers help me with Draft:Albert Percy Godber? The draft has been declined and tagged up. It was then deleted years ago. I had it restored today after I came across one of his photos. I think he and his photography are fascinating for capturing aspects of New Zealand's transportation and industrial history. His work is in museum and library collections. At least one of his photographs has been used in a book. He photographed Maori sites.

I'm sorry I haven't been able to work the draft up enough to get it admitted to mainspace. It does make me wonder about what we do and don't include, our notability criteria, Articles for Creation (AfC) process, and collaborative ethos. Thanks so much for any help or guidance you can offer! Have a great 2025 and beyond. Thanks again. FloridaArmy (talk) 17:57, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

If Godber is not WP:NOTABLE, which is what the draft reviewers say, then Wikipedians can't fix that. Polygnotus (talk) 09:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

user:Polygnotus is he "notable" and should we have an entry on him? FloridaArmy (talk) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

I dunno, but User:Sulfurboy wrote that the draft did not show significant coverage about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject at that point. Polygnotus (talk) 19:37, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

And this a request to revisit his finding. We have a photographer from more than 100 years ago who documented areas of New Zealand's North Island. We have his work in a National Library collection. We have his work discussed as iconic for one of his Maori related photographs. We have his work revisited in a 2018 exhibition. We have descriptions of him related to his photographs, his career, and we have the photos themselves documenting the areas industries, sites, infrastructure from more than 100 years ago. If I was satisfied with the previous conclusions I would not be here. So I ask again, should we have an entry on this subject? Should we just attribute his photos where we use them to an unlinked name with no explanation or discussion of who he was? I think the answer is clear, and I wanted to hear Jimbo's opinion. I am aware of what was previously stated. Years have passed and I believe it's time to reevaluate and consider. I also think it's worth reflecting on our article creations processes more generally and how we apply our conception of "notability". FloridaArmy (talk) 23:33, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Godber's photographs include "views of the Hutt Valley including large numbers of cars traveling to Trentham Racecourse, and the Hutt River. Another group of images relate to a holiday at the Mendip Hills Homestead in Canterbury, New Zealand with scenes of farm life, including haymaking, merino sheep, and farm buildings. During their stay in the South Island Godber also took photographs of Dunedin (including the Ross Reservoir, Otago Boys' High School, Seacliff Mental Hospital, the 1926 Dunedin Exhibition, and the Hillside Railway Workshops); Invercargill (including the Invercargill Railway Workshops); Stewart Island, Moeraki, Tuatapere, Waiau River, Oamaru and Port Chalmers. Various railway stations in Canterbury and Otago, the Burnside Iron Mills, and the Rosslyn Mills. Godber was a volunteer fireman with the Petone Fire Brigade with the album including views of the building, groups of firemen, fire engines and other fire fighting equipment, and a building in Petone damaged by fire. In his work with New Zealand Railways, mainly at the Petone Railway Workshops, he took interior photographs of various buildings, including the Machine Shop and finishing benches, the engine room, lathes, boilers, and fitting shops. He also took photographs of many of the steam engines that were built and worked on at the workshops. One scene shows a group of men watching a fight. Many images show his interest in logging railways, particularly in the Piha, Karekare, Anawhata area. Scenes of logging camps, various methods of transporting logs including bullock teams, logging trains, and dams created and then tripped to send logs down by river, and timber mills. Other topics covered in Godber's photographs are scenes at Maori marae and meeting houses, with some of the people identified; Maori carving and rafter designs; beekeeping, and gold mining." FloridaArmy (talk) 23:52, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
It's hard to choose which photos to share. Historic views areas, industries, bridges, natural features, railways and bridges, crafts. Here's a link to his photos on Misplaced Pages Commons. Many already illustrate our entries on various subjects. FloridaArmy (talk) 00:01, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

If you really want to help him, get a couple stories published about him in newspapers. Notability here will follow. Carrite (talk) 01:23, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Just wanted to say

You have created something valuable to everyone on the Internet. I'm sure you get this a lot, but thank you.
It may sound weird, but Misplaced Pages has helped me through some tough times. We can never thank you enough for this sometimes infighting, sometimes peaceful, sometimes divided, but always united community You are the backbone of the ~~cabal of editors~~ thriving community that is Misplaced Pages. I wish I could give you a BarnMilkyWay but no one's come up with that, apparently. (3OpenEyes's talk page. Say hi!) | (PS: Have a good day) 00:49, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Requests for comment/Severe Problems in hewiki

For the interested. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:58, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Summary: This document intends to show the problematic situation in Hebrew Misplaced Pages (hewiki), and provide evidence that it has been overtaken by a group of mostly religious and nationalist editors, who prevent others from achieving higher permissions while promoting their own allies. –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:38, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Happy new year

Good days, Jimbo. I'd like to say that Chinese Misplaced Pages is introducing ARBCOM System currently, since Arbcom on this project, and in fact all the project is originated from the idea of yours, do you have any opinion for that? Any hints, advice or suggestions? -Lemonaka 15:43, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

Scoop: Heritage Foundation plans to ‘identify and target’ Misplaced Pages editors

That doesn't sound good. From The Forward. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:37, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Being discussed at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Heritage Foundation intending to "identify and target" editors. CMD (talk) 10:08, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Thanks! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:11, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Also discussed at Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence#Edit_request and Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Heritage_Foundation_planning_to_dox_Wikipedia_editors. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:07, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Jimbo, could I ask you please to respond to these concerns from Tryptofish?

... it's not just if you've edited about Israel-Palestine. It could be if you've edited anything about climate and fossil fuels, gender, immigration, vaccines, and of course, American politics. I doubt that they have the bandwidth to actually identify and harass every editor who could possibly be seen as editing information that goes against a MAGA POV, but they will likely find some easily identified targets, whom they will use to "set an example", as a way of instilling fear in our editing community. I fully expect that, in the coming months, Jimbo Wales will be hauled before a hostile and performative Congressional hearing, much in the manner of university presidents. I hope very much that he will be better prepared than Claudine Gay was.

Yeah, I know this is grim. But I believe the first step in dealing with this is to go into it with our eyes open, to know what we are dealing with, what motivates it. And, more than harming individual editors, the real objective of Heritage et al. is to instill fear in the rest of us. If we become too fearful to revert POV edits, they win. In a very real sense, we have to keep doing what we have been doing, and continue to be a reliable resource for NPOV information. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:54, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Sita Bose (talk) 05:33, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Well, I fully agree that developments in terms of arguments and actions aimed at destroying trust in knowledge (and of course our specific interest, trust in Misplaced Pages) are extremely worrisome, particularly as I agree that for many who are doing it, the motive does appears to be the undermining of civic norms and democracy. I also agree with Tryptofish in a part that you didn't quote: "In a narrow sense, it's technically true that if you "out" yourself, there's no point in anyone else doing it. But once your identity is known, you become vulnerable to all of the kinds of real-life harassment that doxed people find themselves subjected to. It doesn't matter, in that regard, how they found out your identity." That's a sad balancing act that no Wikipedian should have to face.

As a side note, I don't think that the reliability of the Heritage Foundation as a source is particularly related to these despicable actions. Whether they should be considered a reliable source in some matters is really unrelated to whether they hate us or not.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

Suddenly ANI going to court to get user-data seems like the model of gentlemanly behavior. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:51, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

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