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Revision as of 13:11, 18 June 2010 editTimotheus Canens (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators38,430 editsm →Request concerning Andranikpasha: fix← Previous edit Latest revision as of 03:34, 9 January 2025 edit undoSeraphimblade (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators46,240 edits →PerspicazHistorian: Closing 
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==PerspicazHistorian==
== ] ==
{{hat|{{u|PerspicazHistorian}} is blocked indefinitely from mainspace. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 03:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC) }}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning ]=== ===Request concerning PerspicazHistorian===
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|NXcrypto}} 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|PerspicazHistorian}}<p>{{ds/log|PerspicazHistorian}}</p>
; User requesting enforcement : ] (]) 16:52, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Breein1007}}


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
; Sanction or remedy that this user violated :
], , warned: (November 2009)


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
*There has been discussions at the . Anyone can clearly see from the entire discussion there that in the end the majority agreed to have either "occupied territories" or mention the occupied territories by name in the template. Then there was a RfM to move an article ] to: ]. You can see the entire discussion here, admin closed it as "no consensus" for the move: After this Breein1007 goes to the template, removed what was agreed at the template discussion and claims So with the no-consensus RfM at the article he changed the consensus version of the template to the no-consensus version of the article. I asked the closing admin about this and he said: I went to Breein1007s talkpage and told him this, and then he removes it from his talkpage: And then he goes to the template and once again changes it to the same no-consensus version as the article RfM. Against the consensus at the template talkpage: And then at the talkpage he says: "And as discussed at the other article RfC, National parks "OF" Israel does not imply that they are in Israel." (misrepresenting the talkpage) "so please stop making POV edits with no consensus." He calls other peoples edits that follow the template talkpage consensus for "pov" while claiming it goes "against consensus" which is really a no-consensus from another RfM. And he did this after I pointed out to him what the closing admin had said, and he got no new consensus at the template discussion for the change he made.
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->

# - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of ] (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
'''UPDATE:''' Breein has continued to edit war and re insert the no-consensus version at the template: He has done this twice now after that I showed him what the closing admin at the other article had said as shown above. He is removing the occupied territories when there is no consensus at any talkpage for them to be removed and then claims that he is when its clear from the discussion that Breein is edit warring against consensus: --] (]) 22:11, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
# - tag bombed the highly vetted ] article without any discussion or reason

# - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
*There was a lot of discussions over several articles to change several mountains in the Golan Heights from the Hebrew name to the Arabic name: The closing admin said there was no consensus so there was no change:(At this time the ''translation'' of the name was Arabic first, Hebrew second) Then there was talks about adding all the Golan mountains into one single article and having the names with a (/) next to each other. Breein1007 then went and changed the translation to put the Hebrew translation before the Arabic before getting any consensus at all for this change: (once again misrepresenting the consensus at talkpage: "right order") three times he reverts this and gets warned by admin, look at the edit summary when he removed it
# - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting

# - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
*At Golan Heights, a user had removed a quote and misrepresented the quote in the text, she changed it from the quotes: ''"more than 80%"'' to hers: ''"sometimes"'' I changed this and explained this at the talkpage: Breein jumps in and reverts, tells an IP . But if you look at the discussion, the version that Breein1007 reverted to had no consensus, and Breein1007 himself did not use the talkpage as he had asked the IP to do: He just reverted, inserting a sentence that the source did not support, that had no consensus, and that Breein1007 himself did not discuss about at the talkpage while asking an IP to talk about it.
# - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation

# - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "{{tq|This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP.}}"
* Types "per talk" in edit summary, but if you look at the talkpage there is no consensus for his edit. He is deliberately misrepresenting the talkpage in his edit summary. He also said at the talkpage that Nick did not "address the issue" which is exactly what Nick did:

*Canvassing: A user goes to Breein1007s talkpage and asks him for help to participate in an edit war: ... Breein then goes to the article and helps him out in the edit war: (and has continued to do so after this AE) And they were also talking with each other in Hebrew, in what appears to be about the article:

*Makes at least 10 reverts to ] in 1 hour: (I have not counted the 1 rvs or 2 rvs so its probably more then 10) (7) (3) When another editor warned him about this he removed the warning and said He got blocked for this.

*''Some'' of the warnings he has received:

'''Incivility/Behavior:'''

*Behavior (talking about an admin):

*Behavior:

*Behavior:

*Behavior: (Then ads it again )

*Connects an ANI thread opened about him by coincidence on a Jewish holiday to:

*Makes fun of a user who cant speak english well: (Although some have suggested that Ani Medjool faked his bad english, Breein1007 didn't know this. Its the thought that counts.)

*Sabotages a DYK:

* Asks an Israeli admin in Hebrew to give him rollback rights: -

'''I find it inappropriate that Breein has opened up several long discussions with admins specifically about this AE outside of this AE request, instead of replying here:''' and notifies an editor who edits on the same side as him in Arab-Israeli conflict articles to one of those off-AE discussions: --] (]) 18:52, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
(November 2009)

;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ])

Permanent topic ban from Arab-Israeli conflict articles. His editing and behavior has been a long term problem within Arab-Israeli conflict articles. He has clearly failed to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages. He has been sanctioned and warned many times, but it doesn't seem like it helps. He has clearly shown that he cant collaborate with other editors within Arab-Israeli conflict articles and he causes a lot of disruption at them.


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
<!-- To the extent it may be relevant, link to previous sanctions such as blocks or topic bans.-->
*Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : ; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
<!-- Add any further comment here -->
User Breein1007 has since he registered his account in November 2009 been banned 5 times all of these banns are within the Arab-Israeli conflict. He has also been subject to an interaction ban:


I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


:While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to ]. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
===Discussion concerning Breein1007 ===


*PerspicazHistorian is still using sources (see ]) and wishing to move ] to ] which is a blatant POV. ] <small><small>]</small></small> 04:39, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
====Statement by Breein1007 ====


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
====Comments by others about the request concerning Breein1007 ====
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
I can comment on Ani Majdul case and on asking Israeli admin to give him rollbacks rights in Hebrew language.


===Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
First, in the case of Ani Majdul, everyone on the ANI opened against Breein1007 agreed (including one or two admins), after detailed investigation by uninvolved editor was made and presented on the ANI, that he is most probably editor who write in bad English on purpose and that he's not the one he present himself to be (Arab refugee from Lebanon if I'm correct) both because of what seems as delibrate spelling and grammar mistakes, because of his style of editing and because even he presented himself as Arabic native speaker, he seems not to be able to communicate in very basic level of Arabic. Then, some suggested that he's Breein's sock. Breein seem to noticed the suspicious style of editing on Ani Majdul, he might go wrong anyway with mocking him a little, and there is possibilty that Ani is who he say he's, but the case is very complicated and Breein might feel that Ani mocking everyone so he responded accordingly but this case doesn't make it just to cast sanctions on Breein. If I'm not mistaken, it was monthes ago and the ANI case ended with nothing.
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by PerspicazHistorian ====
As for addressing Israeli admin in Hebrew. First, the nationality of one admin, let us all agree, is not relevant and we excpect admins who are involved emotionaly or at all in certain issues to be responsible enough to avoid any using of sysop tools in regard to these areas of editing or when dealing with involved editors. There is enough place to assume good faith here as I don't believe he realy thought Israeli admin will give roll backs rights without proper process and not according to WP policy. Second, Breein adressed me many times in Hebrew in issues which have nothing to do with Misplaced Pages, just because he seem to enjoy parcticing the language or something. He do it very frequently on his TP when corresponding with other Hebrew speaking editors in issues concern more with his everyday life than with WP. It's not uncommon that many many editors communicate with other editors in their native language when they have the oppertunity. Most times they even forget to add translation to English. I've seen editors communicating with each other in French, Arabic, Persian and Spanish many times before. No one realy think that it can hide what they write. There are enough very good speakers of Hebrew in both sides of the I-P area of editing and I can even name them. Some of those also have Hebrew tag on their UP. If I'm not mistaken, it was long time ago.
*By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on ] Page.
I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before ] told me about this: ].
Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.<br>
*In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on ] by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to ] it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of ].<br>
*As a clarification to my edit on ], it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this . I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
:@], Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in ]. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! ] (]) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::Yes, I will commit to that. ] (]) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) <small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC) </small>
:At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when ] was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. ] (]) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
*Hi @] , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
::''<small>P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards.</small>'' ] (]) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)<small>Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.] (]) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*1) I just asked an user @] if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
I don't intend to comment on other cases I'm not very familiar with, don't have time to and etc. Infact, these are the two diffs provided by the editor opened this case that I've read --] (]) 19:53, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! ] (]) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::even @] is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. ] (]) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::as mentioned by @] before, <sub>Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here</sub>. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. ] (]) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::@] I once filed a to find it @] is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. ] (]) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) <small>moving to correct section ] (]) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)</small>


*Hi @] @], In my defense I just want to say that
'''Statement by Shuki'''
:1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on ] page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
The past few months had been a welcomed respite from the battleground editing that Supreme Deliciousness and his like brought to the I-P conflict on WP. SD was ] and the quiet persisted. It is apparent though that SD has refused to calm down and decided to turn up the heat again with this frivolous report, somewhat similar to the one ] in the hot recent spring. SD is fishing here and with no real point to grab on to. SD was also ] a couple of weeks before that in early April. --] (]) 21:14, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:2) My main interest in editing is ] and ] topics.
:I have already received a topic ban for something I mostly did a very long time ago: If I now have done something wrong, file a new enforcement request. --] (]) 21:38, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
:3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
:Please do not block me. ] (]) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*@] I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @] I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*@]@] I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*@] This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--] (]) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*:@] I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned ]. ] (]) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
*::@]@] I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
*::The article ] doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about ], I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! ] (]) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*:::@] You mean to say, "<sub>The ''prasada'' is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, ] and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the ]. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. "</sub> is not copy pasted by website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? ] (]) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*::::@ ] I just asked others to share their opinion in the enforcement. With all due respect, I don't think its wrong in any sense. ] (]) 15:13, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
*:::::To all the admins involved here,
*:::::* I agree to keep learning and apologize if my previous edits/replies have annoyed the admins.
*:::::* I have not edit warred since a month and please see it as my willingness to keep learning and getting better.
*:::::*Please give me a chance, I understand concern of you all and respect your opinion in the matter. But please don't block me from editing from main article space. I promise that I will abide by all the rules and will learn from other editors.
*:::::] (]) 15:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by LukeEmily====
::And Breein1007 has just been ] so this AE is quite redundant, vague and again, frivolous. There is nothing really here to action on except getting a bit emotional and pushing the limits of civility, nothing to do with the arbitration case. --] (]) 22:28, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
PerspicazHistorian also violated ] by engaging in an edit war with {{u|Ratnahastin}} who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.] (])
:::Breein1007s ban on June 1 was only for his edit war on ] article, what about the other 99% of this enforcement request? --] (]) 22:33, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
'''Statement by NickCT'''
This is slightly silly. Anyone familair with Breein knows that if one took the time one could provide 1,000s on examples similair to the ones Supreme has offered above. His negative behavior has spanned over a long period of time. That anyone would speak for him here simply goes to demonstrate the disturbing bias that surrounds I/P issues.
@PhilK - Sup is right about the recent block being for edit warring. These charges are different. PhilK, I'm a little surprised you were so willing to block me for suggesting Breein was a "bigot", and yet, in the face of the language and behavior above, which seems far further over the line, you do nothing. Is this a double standard? Is there a reason for it? ] (]) 03:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
:Breein's disruptive behavior continues . This is a pretty blatant edit war against the consensus opinion on the talk page. Can some admin take action on this AE before it goes stale? ] (]) 20:48, 11 June 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by Doug Weller====
'''Housekeeping'''
I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and ]'s comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving ] to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. ] (]) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. ] ] 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
*Just a note for archiving purposes: The editor filing this AE has posted notice at the AN forum. --]<sup>]</sup> 20:46, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


:::I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... ] ] 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
'''more comments by Supreme Deliciousness moved up from below'''
as per explicit guideline
:::This is not true, read the first part of the enforcement request, his long time behavior problem continued yesterday several days after his latest block on June 1. And that same block on June 1 was only about his edit warring at one article: ], what about the other 99% of things he has done in this enforcement request? --] (]) 22:36, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by Toddy1====
:::B, all his incivility or the majority of it is related to Arab-Israel conflict issues, he has been warned many, many times but it doesn't help. And can you please comment on the first part of the request, the template issue, the canvassing and his behaviour at the Mountains in the Golan Heights, isn't this covered in discretionary sanctions? --] (]) 21:53, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
This is another editor who appears to have pro-] (RSS) and pro-] (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-] views, but allowed ] to say whatever they liked.


A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.
:::::You did not answer about the canvassing part. Concerning the template, its name had consensus, and he changed it against consensus, the article name did not have consensus. So if anyone is gonna be changed to match the other, its not the one that has consensus that is going to be changed to the no-consensus one. I showed him the involving admins comment, and he still changed it. --] (]) 22:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::Well, I don't know how he can be guilty of canvassing when he was the one canvassed. Blaming him for that is ridiculous. As for the edits themselves, yes, it's edit warring, and if reported, the article could have been locked or a block could have been considered, but it's stale now. --] (]) 01:48, 8 June 2010 (UTC)


If we want to talk about ] when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .
CIreland, concernign (1), the majority of things here, he have never been sanctioned for, only the edit warring at one article, gaza flotilla raid. --] (]) 16:38, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.
B, there has been many attempts at intervention. Look how many warnings he received, I posted them in the evidence. Look at his many blocks and interaction ban, all within Arab-Israeli conflict articles. --] (]) 16:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">--] ]</span> 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
'''Note for reviewing admins:''' The people in this enforcement request that have come to defense of Breein1007, (Shuki, Gilisa, Nsaum75, Jiujitsuguy) are people who edit on the same side as him in Arab-Israeli conflict articles. --] (]) 13:52, 8 June 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by Capitals00====
*'''note to SupremeDeliciousness''', please note that absolutely no one on 'your' side has come to support your frivolous report. This usually means that they do not support it at all. --] (]) 20:58, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
I find the comment from {{U|Toddy1}} to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "{{tq|Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India}}"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like ].
**The report is not frivolous and referring to it as such is not consistent with granting him the ]. You can disagree with SupremeDeliciousness's interpretation of events or proposed remedies without assuming that he is acting in bad faith.--] (]) 17:54, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user ]. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "{{tq|seek to censor}}" this editor due to his "{{tq| pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views}}". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure ] is coming for you. ] (]) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
*** Sorry B, about the use of the word frivolous, that is your opinion and you should respect that I have my own. I have no doubt that especially in this case, AGF is long ago in the past, and now he is acting in bad faith, especially since he does not seem to respect that you and the other admins have put doubts in what he thought was an easy case. He put a lot of effort into documenting old edits by Breein and seeing how doubts of his own intentions are raised and this is being dragged out longer than expected, he evidently is losing confidence in his objective. He keeps commenting here and feels the need to make sure that he is part of the discussion that you admins are having. The above 'note for reviewing admins' is utterly ridiculous and I am disappointed that none of you bothered to comment on this attempt to influence you on disregarding the opposing comments that have been left here by other editors. George actually commented on my page that my edit summary was not civil, but I will quote George about SD's comment above: ''it increases the level of tension and discord and makes finding solutions for problems harder. Abusive behavior is an indirect assault on the community as a whole.'' But frankly, how do I identify bad faith? The fact that absolutely no one on 'his' side has come to support him on this, and his demand to totally ban Breein from the I-P area, not merely ask for a cool-down period. SD wants to shut up Breein, and apparently Nsaum75 as well, given the recent comments left on his talk page. --] (]) 22:24, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by Vanamonde93====
B, if you follow the ] you posted , you'll see that Breein did not violate outing at all for a user that widely uses his real name. --] (]) 20:38, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
{{U|Toddy1}}: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.


That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. ], entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ({{tq|"first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya"}}, and poor sources (like , and , whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. ], also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.


I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. {{U|Bishonen}} If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. ] (]) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
'''Comment by Nsaum75'''


:Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . ] (]) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
Breein1007's incivil behavior aside, I would like to remind the admins that that '''some''' of the POV issues that SD is raising about Breein's editing style, are the same editing styles that helped contribute to SD's topic ban in May. Nobody is perfect and I would ask that the involved parties try to find a solution that doesn't escalate the already tenacious game of "tag" that appears to play out in IP related AE filings. --]<sup>]</sup> 04:10, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Thats not true. I was topic banned for some comments I made at talkpages mostly a long time ago, and the admin who topic banned me said himself that: ''"the most compelling and disturbing behavior adduced here is nearly a year old."'' I was not topic banned for anything that I have brought up here about Breein1007. The comments I made at talkpages were mostly a long time ago so that was why it was a thirty day ban. --] (]) 07:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
::Actually the admins cited <b>] behavior</b> and issues with "naming disputes" on Levant articles, and the POV "re arranging" of WP project listings... which does pertain to part of the accusations against Breein - because he/she himself has contributed to the revert-disruption at some of the very same articles involving naming conventions and translations; That is why I commented on it here. '''That is also why I think it is important that the admins keep in mind the "tag-team" behavior and editor aggressiveness (fishing, abuse of process, forum/admin shopping, admin canvassing) that has overtake all I-P related AE filings.''' --]<sup>]</sup> 13:22, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:::He mentioned battleground behaviour, it was some things I had posted at talk pages that was the problem, the things I posted were involving origins of things. And many of them were from a long time ago. I haven't mentioned any WP project rearranging at this enforcement request. --] (]) 13:50, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:I find it interesting that someone like SD, with his past baggage, can bring a case like this against Breein. It strikes me as a bit hypocritical. I looked at the complaint and it's clear that Breein has already been sanctioned for the subject actions that gave rise to the instant complaint. Issuing a second sanction would be akin to punishing Breein twice for the same alleged offense and that would be manifestly unfair.--] (]) 16:32, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
::Not true, Breein has never been sanctioned for 99% of all things brought up in this enforcement request. And his edit warring at Gaza flotilla raid is unrelated to his general incivility, battle behaviour, and other things he has done at articles brought up at this enforcement request, which he hasn't been sanctioned for. --] (]) 16:54, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
::Btw, interesting comments from Jiujitsuguy who also left these comments at Breeins talkpage: --] (]) 17:04, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I noticed that comment, and was considering raising it here as an example of breach of BLP, racism, possible libel and other unacceptable behaviour. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 17:10, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
::::I don't think comments on talk pages are subject to those rules RR. ] (]) 17:16, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::Those rules are applicable across Misplaced Pages, not just on article pages. I suggest asking Jiujitsuguy to remove those comments. -- ] (]) 17:51, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::(ec)]. Similarly, racist or libellous comments are never acceptable in Misplaced Pages. My history with the editors concerned means it would not be a good idea for me to remove this; but I think someone should. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 18:04, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I stand corrected; however, as a rule I'm against policing user pages. I think it rarely serves to elevate the quality of WP. ] (]) 18:12, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:Ahmadinajad called Zionists “''the most detested people in humanity'',” referred to the Holocaust as “''a myth'',” accused Jews of playing up Nazi atrocities in a bid to extort sympathy for Israel, called Israel a “''fake regime''” that “''must be wiped off the map'',” sponsored a Holocaust denial symposium, murdered members of the Iranian opposition and used his Basij thugs to terrorize peaceful protestors. Considering Ahmadinajad’s hateful past, the comments I made were complimentary. RolandR and ChrisO do you subscribe to these views?--] (]) 18:21, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
::These alleged remarks were not made on Misplaced Pages, so they are not relevant to this discussion. My opinion of them is none of your business. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 18:30, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
:::I've left Jiujitsuguy a warning on his talk page. ] (]) 21:08, 8 June 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by UtherSRG====
;'''Comment by unomi'''
I've mostly dealt with PH around ]. They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the ] when they can demonstrate they no longer have ] issues. - ] ] 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)


:Based on , I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - ] ] 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
Re Shuki stating ''please note that absolutely no one on 'your' side has come to support your frivolous report. This usually means that they do not support it at all.'' above. Misplaced Pages does not function at its best when it is interpreted as a democracy, having 'X' number of editors jumping in and stating ''Agree/Disagree'' adds very little to a conversation and only serves to impede actual decision making, deferring to ''the mob''. In cases such as these the ''evidence'' should be at the center of attention. There is simply no point in jumping in and ''me too'ing'' when the evidence is this strong, one would hope...
::They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in ] territory here. - ] ] 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
::: is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - ] ] 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)


===Result concerning PerspicazHistorian ===
The fact that Breein was blocked for actions on the flotilla article does not in any way invalidate the claims made here,- that Breein is persistently acting in a manner that is in contravention of community norms and is exhibiting behavior that should incur Arbcom sanctioned remedies. Sanctions incurred for past misdeeds do not ''erase'' or even ''negate'' those misdeeds, only a demonstrated change in behavior can. Remember that we are not here to ''punish'' anyone, we are not here to ensure some balance of ''misdeeds vs sanctions'', we are here to ensure a relatively constructive editing environment.
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''


{{u|PerspicazHistorian}}, can you explain your understanding of ] and the ] rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring ''even if they aren't breaking 3RR''. ] (]) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
The gross civility violations obviously hinder encouraging a collaborative atmosphere, but the multiple willful misrepresentations of consensus and the actions of other editors absolutely deny it. I could understand if it was a one-off, but as the evidence collected by SD show, it is more of a MO than a slip-up; Specifically, using the 3 oppose vs 4 support ] (on a different article) to is not something that we want to see.
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
:@], that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is ''the first time'' someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
:<small>Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is ]; in their ] NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here.</small> ] (]) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? ] (]) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:::@], have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. ] (]) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. ] (]) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::@], like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources.<ref>{{Cite web |title=Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God |url=https://www.ganeshaspeaks.com/predictions/astrology/prasad-food-for-god/ |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=GaneshaSpeaks |language=en-GB}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=What Is Prashad |url=https://www.swaminarayan.faith/articles/what-is-prashad |access-date=2024-12-30 |website=Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj |language=en}}</ref> The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit ''yesterday'', after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
:::::The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. ] (]) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
*A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. ] &#124; ] 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
*:{{u|Vanamonde93}}, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we ''are'' in CIR territory; just look at PH's ] for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. ] &#124; ] 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
*Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? ] (]) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. ] (] • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*It looks to me like there is a consensus for an indefinite partial block for PerspicazHistorian from article space. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within a day or so, I will close as such. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Given PH's recent slew of requests on multiple admin talk pages, yes, please do. - ] ] 12:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
*<!--
-->


{{reflist talk}}
I can understand that there is some frustration, but if editors are not willing to engage in centralized discussion then we are unable to untangle the misunderstandings. The general question of ''occupied territories'' has been sought discussed at ] the discussion has been widely advertised and many of the editors weighing at this venue have also weighed in there, except for Breein.
{{hab}}


==LaylaCares==
That Breein has so far refrained from commenting here, and instead engaged directly with commenting admins is, to my mind, deeply inappropriate. I urge all editors to work towards ensuring that our stated community goals and standards are met and enforced. ] (]) 23:48, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
{{hat|There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning LaylaCares===
;'''Comment by Epeefleche'''
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Vice regent}} 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
Applying the Tim Song rule of timely complaints, I fail to see anything here but a stale complaint. I'm having trouble seeing anything actionable within the past two weeks.--] (]) 07:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
:But this complaint was made two weeks ago. It is not the complainant's fault that the matter has been strung out for so long. And, , the disruptive behaviour has continued even since this AE was submitted. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 08:23, 18 June 2010 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|LaylaCares}}<p>{{ds/log|LaylaCares}}</p>
===Result concerning Breein1007 ===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
::Agree with Shuki - all of this happened before his block, so I don't think any action is required. ] (]) 22:32, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
::I think some sort of civility probation seems appropriate. With the rest of it, apart from what he was already blocked for, it's hard to make out a definitive "right" or "wrong" party. Some of the incivility is clearly over the top and on at least one occasion more recent than the block a week ago . I would support civility probation. I don't know that a topic ban is warranted, though. --] (]) 20:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
::::Well, anything is technically covered by the discretionary sanction provision - that's why it's called "discretionary". ;) But in the case of the template header issue, (1) it's silly to fight over the label of the template, (2) it's logical that the template would match the name of the article, whatever that may be, and (3) even if you presume that his preferred title was less preferable, two edits six days apart are hardy sufficient cause to impose sanctions. Regarding the Golan Heights "does Hebrew or Arabic come first" issue, that's (1) a silly thing to argue about, and (2) stale. As I said above, I don't see anything actionable except possibly civility. --] (]) 22:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
::I'm afriad I must disagree with B and PhilKnight, above. Although some of Breein1007's actions have drawn sanctions in the past, I think that this report, combined with even a cursory examination of Breein1007's contribution history, demonstrates a ''persistent pattern'' of poor behaviour that has gone unaddressed by isolated blocks. In such a contentious topic area, a collegial approach is especially important and edit-warring, incivility etc. is especially problematic. In my opinion, a topic-ban (articles and discussions) of between one and three months is appropriate; had I come first to this report I would have imposed such a ban but, given that other administrators disagree, I'll naturally leave the final decision to consensus. ] (]) 03:50, 8 June 2010 (UTC)


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
Hi CIreland, having looked at the evidence presented again, I think my earlier comment was hasty. I suggest you go ahead and apply a ban. ] (]) 12:04, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
*I don't agree that anything beyond some sort of civility sanction is warranted, but the discretionary sanction says "any uninvolved administrator", not "any uninvolved administrator with the consent of everyone else who happens to be there", so if you think it's necessary, then do what you will. But I would also suggest that there are other remedies short of an outright topic ban. If revert warring is a problem, then a topic 1RR for this user would resolve that problem. Mentoring is available. A topic ban is not really appropriate unless the user is so irredeemably biased/disruptive/whatever that other intermediate steps would be a waste of time. --] (]) 14:33, 8 June 2010 (UTC)


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
**I am concerned that the reporting party has identified only one edit that I can see that was since the most recent block. I asked them on ANI to post those edits which were more recent than the block and they do not appear to have done so. That would tend to make the whole report stale... ] (]) 18:53, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
*My only real worry is the request in Hebrew for rollback privilege. You simply don't use foreign languages on this Misplaced Pages in those circumstances other than to avoid scrutiny of your request. ] (]) 08:14, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
# EC gaming
**I don't know ... people email such requests all the time. I think the only time I've ever answered affirmatively to one that was emailed to me was when it was someone whose rollback I had removed asking that I restore it ... but I do see such requests via email from time to time. Asking for it in Hebrew can't be any worse than an emailed request. --] (]) 15:47, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


I think there is a conflict between two approaches to arbitration enforcement here, both of which are legitimate.
#One approach treats this in a similar manner to a report at ], in which one would not sanction twice for the same incident. According to this approach, we would only give weight to problems since the most recent block.
#The other approach deals with this report in a similar manner to that used in arbitration - the arbitration committee considers patterns of prior blocks in its findings of fact and imposes remedies accordingly.
When I advocated a topic-ban, above, it was largely on the basis of the second approach because I don't think adminstrators imposing run-of-the-mill 3RR blocks would necessarily look at the overall picture. By contrast, looking at an editor's contribution history overall is what I think should occur at arbitration enforcement. ] (]) 16:14, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:: --] (]) 16:40, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:While I agree that option #2 is more appropriate in general, my concern is (1) there hasn't been a real attempt at intervention and (2) much of the conduct submitted seems more along the lines of a petty squabble than a problem that requires a topic ban. That is why I suggest civility parole and topic 1RR. --] (]) 16:24, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
:: --] (]) 16:45, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
*Per ], I withdraw my objections to harsher sanctions. This behavior is clearly unacceptable. --] (]) 17:45, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
:: per ] --] (]) 20:40, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
*Support some kind of strong 1RR restriction or (probably unnecessary at the moment) a topic ban. A quick purusal of Breein1007's editing patterns, even in the last few days (when he must ''know'' he's in hot water), shows that he has serious issues with edit-warring on, well, basically every article he chooses to edit. -- ''']''' 02:44, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
*My collegues above find at least some of this actionable, and I don't doubt that they are right, and have no problem with any action being taken. But I have tried to read and understand it to the degree necessary to come to a decision about the whole picture within a reasonable time, and failed. That's because the request is too long and argumentative and contains too many ill-structured issues and (undated!) diffs and in general is presented in a manner that is not amenable to easy review, especially at the beginning, where it is not made clear why this is more than a number of content disputes. This may be a reason why this case is not moving along. The more complex a case, the more carefully it needs to be presented. In general, with respect to arbitration enforcement approaches, I agree with CIreland that an editor's entire history should always be taken into consideration. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 21:31, 17 June 2010 (UTC)


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
== Andranikpasha ==


; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).''']''' <sub>(Please ] on reply)</sub> 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
===Request concerning Andranikpasha===
; User requesting enforcement : ]] 11:53, 17 June 2010 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Andranikpasha}} ; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ]


===Discussion concerning LaylaCares===
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
# 1st rv
# 2nd rv
# 3rd rv
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required):
# Andranikpasha was placed on 1rv per week revert parole by {{admin|Moreschi}}
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : admins' discretion


====Statement by LaylaCares====
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : Andranikpasha was placed on indefinite 1rv per week parole for edit warring on AA articles. Last time he was blocked for 1 month for violation of his parole: However he continues edit warring, this time on ], where he resumed his old edit war about the source, which was discussed at ] and resolved as a no ] issue: He ignored my proposal to take the issue to WP:BLPN again, and made 3 rvs in violation of his restriction. ]] 11:53, 17 June 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by Aquillion====
:2 comments. 1st, I'm not under any revert restriction, the info at ] is inaccurate. It listed all parties to the first AA case as being under indefinite rv restriction, while in fact that restriction was for 1 year only and expired 2 years ago. See ] for details. I have no history of blocks and revert limitations since then. And 2nd, if there are any BLP concerns, they should be discussed at the relevant board and a consensus for removal of the quote should be reached. As I noted above, Andranikpasha ignored my proposal to take the issue to WP:BLPN, and edit warred to remove info without any consensus. Also, the result of the previous discussion at BLP board was that there was no BLP violation in the article. Andranikpasha chose to ignore the opinion of other editors, and regardless of content issues, he is not allowed to make more than 1 rv per week, unless he reverts vandalism. ]] 08:25, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be ]-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail ], since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --] (]) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :


===Statement by Dan Murphy===
===Discussion concerning Andranikpasha===
Please look at ], written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.] (]) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by Andranikpasha==== ====Statement by starship.paint====
I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, . '''] (] / ])''' 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
As for me, it is a clear case of BLP violation, and it is also an unsignificant quote (by a less significant person) which obviously attacks a living person. "Criticism and praise should be included if they can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, so long as the material is presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a disinterested tone" ], and three-revert rule does not apply to such removals. ] (]) 07:05, 18 June 2010 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
====Comments by others about the request concerning Andranikpasha ====
I have a question here, is Cox an Armenian? If she is not, this sentence would clearly be a violation of BLP and 1rr or not, users should not be blocked when they have real BLP concerns. There should be a clarification that she is not an Armenian, if she is not. Since any reader reading such a quote will wrongly assume something which is not true. Also, the applicant made two revert to the article and according to , he has a 1rr restriction for an unlimited duration. ] (]) 04:55, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
:For sure, she's not an Armenian. That's why propagandists try to attack her bio by any way. ] (]) 07:07, 18 June 2010 (UTC)


<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->
;Comment by Epeefleche
I agree that BLP violations are to be reverted on sight, and do not count towards RR restrictions. Can you help explain to me why this particular statement is a controversial BLP violation? Thanks.--] (]) 07:51, 18 June 2010 (UTC)


===Result concerning Andranikpasha=== ===Result concerning LaylaCares===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.'' :''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
*I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. ] (]) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->
Looks like an unambiguous violation. I'm inclined to block for three months, escalating from the last one-month block, unless another uninvolved admin objects. ] (]) 04:15, 18 June 2010 (UTC) *I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. ] (]) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
*I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. ] (]/]) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:I concur. ] (]) 05:06, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
*@]: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. ] (]/]) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:I don't think the wording of ] allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. <small>(ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.)</small> That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making ''real'', substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag ''is'' an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. ] (]) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}


== Epeefleche == ==AstroGuy0==
{{hat|{{u|AstroGuy0}} has been issued a warning for source misrepresentation by {{u|Voorts}}. No other reviewers have expressed any wish for further action. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 06:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC) }}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning AstroGuy0===
''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|Hemiauchenia}} 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
===Request concerning Epeefleche===
; User requesting enforcement : &nbsp;<span style="border:1px solid;color:#000085">&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;</span> 19:36, 17 June 2010 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Epeefleche}} ; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|AstroGuy0}}<p>{{ds/log|AstroGuy0}}</p>


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ]


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : First revert (of , June 17, 00:34). Among a number of other changes, Epeefleche changed an information sourced to '']'', writing: "''Der Spiegel'' opined that ". Note that the article is not an opinion piece, and that it is not attributed to the journal itself, but to its authors.
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->
Second revert (of , June 17, 18:30). Cites BLP concerns, although the information cannot be in any way reasonably be construed as disparaging or libellous. It also does not infringe on the privacy of the persons.
(Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of '''race/ethnicity''' and human abilities '''and behaviour'''")
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required): Not applicable. 1 RR warning at the top of the article's talk page.
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : 24 hour block.


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : I have restored the previous version of the text after Epeefleche's first revert. Epeefleche does not cite BLP concerns in his first edit.
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once.
# Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani"


; Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any :
*Epeefleche argues that ''Der Spiegel'' failed to provide a source. Of course, ''Der Spiegel'', as a reliable source, vouches for the accuracy of the information. On the other hand, if ''Der Spiegel'' had referred to another source (e.g. "According to Mr. XY, the persons hold friendly views towards Israel."), then ''Der Spiegel'' would actually '''not''' vouch for the accuracy of the information itself, but only for the fact that XY holds this view. Epeefleches demand that reliable sources would need to provide further sources is unreasonable, because this third source would of course need to provide a fourth source, so we would end up in an infinite loop.
*Epeefleche has not shown how the information would be controversial. This would need to be demonstrated with reliable sources, disagreements between Misplaced Pages editors do not make an information controversial.&nbsp;<span style="border:1px solid;color:#000085">&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;</span> 23:08, 17 June 2010 (UTC)


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
*An analysis published by the BBC states: "And the two foreign observers who have been appointed are seen as friends of Israel." &nbsp;<span style="border:1px solid;color:#000085">&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;</span> 11:59, 18 June 2010 (UTC)


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : : Made aware of contentious topics criterion:
<!-- Add any further comment here -->


; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
===Discussion concerning Epeefleche===
<!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use {{subst:AE-notice|thread name}}), and then replace this comment with a diff of the notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise. -->


<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
====Statement by Epeefleche====
*First, I agree with the statements by others so far to the effect that there was no violation.


Additional comments by editor filing complaint:
Second, I might as well make a point that the others didn't even see need to get to. As I would hope nom already knows, wp:BLP is not limited, as he would have others believe, to statements that are "disparaging or libelous" or "infringe on ... privacy". Where did that come from? Did nom just make that up?


This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. ] (]) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
The guideline itself, which I had referred to, says something ''quite'' different. In just its ''second'' paragraph, using bolding to aid the lazy-eyed editor, it states: <blockquote>Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be''' removed immediately and without waiting for discussion'''.</blockquote>


===Discussion concerning AstroGuy0===
And later, similarly, it instructs us (emphasis added, here) to "Remove immediately any '''contentious material''' about a living person that is unsourced or '''poorly sourced'''". This is certainly contentious material. It is certainly poorly sourced. All for reasons I alluded to in my and on the .
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by AstroGuy0====
Those reasons included my observations that ''Der Spiegel'' failed to indicate the ''source'' for the statement. Failed even indicate to that there ''is'' a source. And, it speaks not to a fact, but as to the ''views'' of persons (as though they are known by Der Spiegel, and specifically that their current views at the time of the writing/reading are known). Given the circumstances, it of course a ''highly'' controversial statement, as it calls into question the persons' objectivity -- given their supposed views. As this is a BLP issue, and a highly controversial one, its a BLP violation. Per wp:blp, I removed it, as indeed I or others should have done post-haste earlier. I also offered that others should feel free to discuss it further (without reverting, under the blp rules.


====Statement by Iskandar323====
As wp:blp further makes clear, this applies whether the material is negative, '''positive, neutral, or just questionable''', and whether it is in a biography or in some other article. Nom's misleading statement asserting that it ''need be'' libelous or disparaging is simply flat-out wrong.
This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. ] (]) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
I wonder if it might perhaps not be better in the future for nom to read the actual language of the guidance alluded to by the editor whose edit he dislikes, and whose editing rights he seeks to chill, rather than concoct new language of his own and pass it off as the guidance.
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning AstroGuy0===
That might have the additional salutary effect of preventing him from introducing BLP violations into articles, as he has done here.--] (]) 22:07, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
*<!--
-->
:The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. ] (]/]) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::Given that AstroGuy0 has already been issued a warning, I don't think anything further is necessary, and will close as such unless any uninvolved admin shortly objects. ] <small><sup>]</sup></small> 18:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==Lemabeta==
::Nom -- I remain concerned with your having mis-stated what ] says.
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


===Request concerning Lemabeta===
::As to your more recent comments, which fail to address the points the rest of us have made -- you are correct that I did not cite BLP concerns in my first edit. Rather, at that point I was trying to make the existing language "work" by editing it. But upon my attention being drawn to it a second time, I saw just how unworkable it was from a BLP perspective. I re-read wp:blp, and acted as the guidance directed. Had I been better, I would have immediately seen the problem when I first looked at the phrase.
; User who is submitting this request for enforcement : {{userlinks|EF5}} 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Lemabeta}}<p>{{ds/log|Lemabeta}}</p>
::Reliable sources, when they are doing their work properly -- even in Germany -- indicate who their sources are or the nature of their source in situations such as this. Even if the source is "an unnamed government official", or "a professor who speaks only on a promise of anonymity". Here we have nothing of the sort. Nada. Zippo. Zilch. It ''is'' a poorly sourced accusation.


<!--- Here and at the end, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
::Worse yet, it's an accusation as to the persons' states of mind. Who can know that? They can. But we have no quote of them saying it. Or they could have said that their state of mind is x. Nor do we have that. Where something is true and notable, as well as controversial, you need better sourcing than that. Yet, what we have here is the German paper making an assertion as to their state of mind being known ('''by whom'''? how? by the Der Spiegel writer? by their mother? by a fortune teller?) to be x. Simply stated, this isn't only poor sourcing, it is rather embarrassing journalism from the German paper. Try reading the NY Times or the Washington Post one day, on an article relating to this conflict, and see how statements such as this are handled. That's what RSs do, when they are sourcing properly.


;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
::Your last point is ridiculous. You write: "Epeefleche has not shown how the information would be controversial." Ummmm .... let's see. These people were appointed to a commission in which the hope would be that they would be "honest brokers". These accusations by the German paper charge that the honest brokers' state of mind is already inclined one way, which is other than what one would hope for from an honest broker. You didn't think that through? Or you're still slapping your hands on your thighs as you think of the absurdity of what you wrote, wondering if you can mislead anyone with it.
<!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced --->


; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it :
::You have to re-read wp:blp. The material is ''ipso facto'' controversial, under ''res ipsa loquitur''. As the guidance makes clear, the onus is on ''you'' to support the controversial BLP addition, something you've failed to do.
<!-- Supply diffs as evidence here, and explain why they require arbitration enforcement. Any allegation not supported by a diff is usually disregarded. You may also link to an archived version of long discussions instead of supplying very many diffs. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as ], or groundless or ] complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.-->
# - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
# - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.


::In short, you have a German paper stating ''as fact'' what the state of mind of these people is known to be. Without saying ''who'' knows it. Or ''how'' they know it. And the German paper fails to give us ''any'' clues in that regard. If it's so well-known, show me an RS that says they said their state of mind is x. Otherwise, its a BLP violation for you to insist on casting aspersions on the character/thought process of these people with a source-less bald statement by the Germans.--] (]) 23:51, 17 June 2010 (UTC)


;If ] are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see ]):
====Comments by others about the request concerning Epeefleche ====
<!-- The following are examples. Write "Not applicable" or similar if this is not a discretionary sanctions enforcement request. Otherwise, fill out at least one line that applies and delete the rest. If you wish to request discretionary sanctions but none of these situations apply, issue an alert yourself instead of making this request, see the link above. -->
=====Comment by Malik Shabazz=====
*Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
Can you clarify why these edits are reverts by identifying the previous versions to which Epeefleche reverted? Thank you. —&nbsp;]&nbsp;<sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 19:47, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
; Additional comments by editor filing complaint :
:Given the generally difficult editing situation at the article, and editors are often trying to evade a narrower interpretation of "revert", a broad interpretation is being applied at this article. ] explains that "reverting may also refer to any action that in whole or in part reverses the actions of other editors". Any narrower interpretation of what constitutes a revert would be meaningless, as it could easily be gamed by more experienced editors.&nbsp;<span style="border:1px solid;color:#000085">&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;</span> 19:53, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

:On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you.
:(Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::In my opinion, the first edit is simply an edit, not a revert. Epeefleche seems to be copy-editing and following ]. He attributed the view that the observers are considered to be pro-Israel to ''Der Spiegel'', which is appropriate in my view; a statement of fact in Misplaced Pages's editorial voice that the observers are "known" to be pro-Israel raises a ] to me, and it should be sourced to something more substantial than a single newspaper article.
:: <small>Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. ] (]/]) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)</small>
::The second edit is more "iffy". Stating as fact, in the editorial voice, that a living person has "exceptionally friendly views towards Israel" may be a BLP issue. It seems like gaming the system that Epeefleche decided to remove the sentence rather than revert to his previous version (attributing the opinion to ''Der Spiegel''). Still, I don't see two reverts here, only one. —&nbsp;]&nbsp;<sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 20:13, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
::(RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. ]<sub>]</sub><sup>]</sup> 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :
:::I have applied the interpretation of revert that has generally been applied to the article. It's not necessarily the best interpretation. For example, I would distinguish between changes that push towards a particular viewpoint and changes that aim at finding a consensus between different viewpoints. In this case, it may be appropriate to use an inline citation ("According to ''Der Spiegel'', "), per ]. We cannot write "''Der Spiegel'' opined ", however, as this is not an opinion, but a piece of information about the assessment of third parties with regard to both persons.&nbsp;<span style="border:1px solid;color:#000085">&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;</span> 20:30, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

<!--- In the line below, replace USERNAME with the username of the editor against whom you request enforcement. --->
::::I agree with you that "According to ''Der Spiegel''" is better than "''Der Spiegel'' opined", but that seems like word-smithing to me. In my opinion, Epeefleche was correcting a POV problem by attributing the view to ''Der Spiegel'', although (as you say) not in the best possible way. —&nbsp;]&nbsp;<sup>]</sup>/<sub>]</sub> 20:43, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

:::::"''Der Spiegel'' opined" would imply that this would be ''Der Spiegel'''s opinion. We do not have any information about the opinion of ''Der Spiegel'' on this issue, however.&nbsp;<span style="border:1px solid;color:#000085">&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;</span> 23:12, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::I now think the last point (that we don't know this is Der Spiegel's opinon) is correct. We ''don't'' know that it is Der Spiegel's opinion. Nor do we have any clue '''whose''' opinion it is. Or whether they are ''notable''. Or whether there is any reason to believe that they know the thoughts of these people. Which is precisely ''why'' it is a BLP violation for my German friend to seek to push Der Spiegel's unsourced commentary as to the state of mind of these people into the article as fact (or even as some unknown person's opinion). wp:blp makes very clear what we should do with such poorly sourced aspersions -- they don't belong in wikipedia articles. If it's true, get a good source. If its true, that should be easy enough.--] (]) 23:55, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Trimble is a member of a pro-Israel faction in the U.K.'s House of Lords, and Watkin has converted to Judaism several years ago. Not a definite proof by itself, of course, but an indication that the information given by ''Der Spiegel'' is not in any way far fetched.&nbsp;<span style="border:1px solid;color:#000085">&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;</span> 00:41, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::::Yes. Not anything approaching proof. Ever hear about ]? ]? The founder of ]? Etc., etc., etc. We don't put in "not far-fetched" controversial material into BPS, unless they have good support. This does not.--] (]) 02:14, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::The information is sourced to a reliable source, and there are no indications that the information would be wrong. Furthermore, the information does not cast any negative light on the individuals (it may put into question Israel's wisdom to choose these two individuals for that specific task, of course), so an increased threshold for inclusion is not warranted. Having a friendly view of Israel is not a crime, as you would probably agree.&nbsp;<span style="border:1px solid;color:#000085">&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;</span> 03:06, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::I've never heard about Dan Burros, or the founder of Revolution Muslim. I've heard about Bobby Fischer, though. None of these people converted to Judaism or launched a pro-Israeli group, so you might want to explain how they are, in your view, related to the issue at hand.&nbsp;<span style="border:1px solid;color:#000085">&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;</span> 03:14, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
*Well, now you have. Want to read about an entire ''anti-Israel'' highly religious ''Jewish'' sect? Read about ]. Your equating Jewish with pro-Israel strikes me as a somewhat sheltered view. Do you by analogy think it might be a bit boorish -- at best, if I were to say that since one is a German, it's an indication that "it is not in any way far fetched" for me to say that the person is a Nazi, or that Der Spiegel says his is known to be a Nazi .... though Der Spiegel fails to say ''who'' knows the person to be a Nazi, or even whether they themselves know the person to be a Nazi, or whether their plumber is the one of that view? Of course that would be utterly absurd. I'm sure there are people who conflate German with Nazi, but those people don't belong editing articles on that mistaken basis. Nor does your conflating Jewish with pro-Israel (or Arab with pro-Hamas, or Black with being a good basketball player) belong here. Your comment conflating Jewish with pro-Israeli is, at best, shallow and uninformed. At worst, it's more than that. I'm sure you are a great person, but the comment is far from appropriate, and reflects little understanding. As to ''why'' that comment is poorly sourced ''on its face'', I've already explained. It's the sort of phrase the wiki "by whom" tag would apply to if the statement were not relative to living people, raising BLP concerns. Since it does raise BLP concerns, it's improper, and any further efforts by you to include the BLP violation will be an (additional) BLP violation on your part.--] (]) 04:48, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I'm not going to respond to your insinuations here. This is not the appropriate place to discuss them. I'm asking you to tone your language, however.&nbsp;<span style="border:1px solid;color:#000085">&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;</span> 05:10, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

=====Comment by No More Mr Nice Guy=====
Is this really the right place for this? Even if there were in fact two reverts, ] says "''Any uninvolved administrator may impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor '''repeatedly''' or '''seriously''' fails to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process''". (emphasis mine)<br>
Is an editor with no prior blocks who made two reverts repeatedly or seriously violating policy? This looks like ] to me. ] (]) 22:26, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

:The article was by NW. ] (]) 23:08, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know the article is placed under 1RR. My question is whether Arbitration Enforcement is the right place to deal with a single instance of a possible 1RR violation by an editor with a clean record who has not repeatedly or seriously violated policy. I think you're setting a bad precedent here, but that's up to you. I just want to know what the correct procedures are for future reference. ] (]) 23:34, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:::You disagree with my comment below? ] (]) 23:36, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
::::My question is procedural, it doesn't matter if he did or didn't actually violate 1RR. Is this board the place for serious stuff and repeat offenders or just any run of the mill violation of policy? ] (]) 23:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
:::::When Elonka placed a page under 0RR, ArbCom endorsed this was a legitimate use of discretionary sanctions, so I don't think a significant precedent is being set here. Also, I think any breach of a 0RR / 1RR restriction can be reported here. ] (]) 23:46, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
::::::Got it. Thanks. ] (]) 23:53, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

===Result concerning Epeefleche===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->

Cs32en, Malik Shabazz is correct. In order for these two edits to count as reverts, you must provide diffs of the action(s) they are reverts ''of''. If such diffs are not provided, this request is not actionable. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 21:13, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

:This is a somewhat borderline case, both in regards to whether 2 reverts were made, and whether there is a BLP exemption regarding the second edit. Overall I don't think a block is appropriate in this instance. ] (]) 23:26, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
::Generally agree with PhilKnight. The argument that the first edit was a revert is borderline at best, and coupled with the legitimate BLP concerns, I don't think a block is warranted. ] (]) 04:11, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

== Abd ==

''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
===Request concerning Abd===
; User requesting enforcement : ] (]) 00:25, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Abd}}

;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ]

; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : Violates both the MYOB sanction and the Cold Fusion sanction. The "edit then self revert" nonsense that Abd made up is not valid or an excuse.

; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required): NA

;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : Indefinite block. Time to cut the cord.

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint : Until Abd is willing to follow his sanctions, he should not be permitted the leniency of editing.

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested : ''The requesting user is asked to notify the user against whom this request is directed of it, and then to replace this text with a ] of that notification. The request will normally not be processed otherwise.''


===Discussion concerning Abd===

====Statement by Abd====

====Comments by others about the request concerning Abd ====
;Comment by Epeefleche
Seems to me that Hipo is correct, and there is a violation here. As to the appropriate penalty, I defer to others.--] (]) 07:54, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
* For the uninitiated amongst us, could somebody enlighten me as to what the initialism "MYOB" represents? ] 10:42, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::] ] (]) 10:54, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

===Result concerning Abd===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.''
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
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Appears to be a straightforward violation. Unless another uninvolved admin objects, I'm going to block for a week. ] (]) 04:09, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

== Physchim62 ==

''Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.''
===Request concerning Physchim62===
; User requesting enforcement : ] <sup>(])</sup> 00:27, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

; User against whom enforcement is requested : {{userlinks|Physchim62}}

;Sanction or remedy that this user violated : ]

; ] of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation ''how'' these edits violate it : &nbsp;
# This edit was made before the sanctions notice, but it is provided as context for the next diff. The editor is seen dehumanizing one side in the conflict.<br />
# The editor supports the earlier comment (after the ARBPIA notice), and repeats the insults.
; Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required): &nbsp;
# Warning by {{admin|Tim Song}}<br />
# Warning/request by {{user|Zuchinni one}}
;Enforcement action requested (], ] or ]) : Topic ban or final warning (see comments)

; Additional comments by editor filing complaint
:I apologize in advance for making a request two days after the last relevant edit (AFAIK), and for making it at a time when this page is flooded with ARBPIA-related requests. However, I believe that these comments are so far out of line that they had to be reported when noticed. Even in the highly controversial I–P area, regular editors are not used to this kind of vitriol, and I fear that turning a blind eye to such comments will invite more of them in the future, turning the already problematic I–P articles into an area that no regular Wikipedian can reasonably work at. Since the editor in question is not new on Misplaced Pages by any means, I believe that he should have known better, but concede that he does not seem to edit I–P articles often and therefore a warning would suffice provided he retracts the comments.
:Additional diffs provided by editors here of inappropriate behavior on the same topic area (but happened before the ARBPIA notice): (personal attack), (implying that Israel is an insane country)

; Replies to Cs32en
: It is incorrect to say that dehumanizing a group of real-life individuals is not a violation of Misplaced Pages policy; if the editor was dehumanizing only the soldiers involved in the flotilla, then it's a BLP violation, as it refers to a very small group of individuals. In case the editor was dehumanizing all IDF soldiers (as at least one of the diffs implies), then he was additionally making a personal attack against other Misplaced Pages editors, such as myself, who are either in regular or reserve service with the IDF. Finally, making defamatory comments such as these against any group constitutes libel, therefore automatically against policy (including ]).

; Reply to Andrensath
: If Physchim62 does not retract his comments, the logical sanction is (IMO) a topic ban from all articles having to do with the IDF for as much as determined necessary to prevent further inappropriate behavior (the sanction should be preventative, not punitive). At the very least, it should cover the time in which the Gaza flotilla still makes news, which is likely to be several months (at least) considering a number of other planned Gaza flotillas. I believe such a sanction would have a positive effect on Misplaced Pages as a whole, because this editor usually makes constructive edits to other topic areas, and therefore his time and energy is probably better spent there.

; Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested :

===Discussion concerning Physchim62===

====Statement by Physchim62====
What we have here is deliberate misrepresentation of my edits. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to accuse me of "antisemitism", the usual cheap slur against anyone who ''dares'' criticise the actions of the Israeli government, and {{User|Epeefleche}} has obliged. It can't be long before someone tries to use as "evidence" for my "antisemitism", so I'll save you all the trouble of looking for the diff!

The deliberate misrepresentation starts with the original complaint by {{User|Ynhockey}}. I am "seen to be deliberately dehumanizing one side in the conflict;" and then "repeating the insult." No mention that the second diff comes from a conversation on ] in which I try to justify the original words. At the risk of digging myself an even deeper hole, I will clarify that my comments were directed against a small group of IDF "soldiers" who were onboard the ''Mavi Marmara'', and ask editors:
:What do you call people who deliberately leave wounded prisoners to bleed to death under the Mediterranean sun while actively and callously preventing them from receiving medical attention that was available?

The second round of deliberate misrepresentation comes from {{User|Gilisa}}, and I apologize in advance for the length of my reply, but s/he has made so many groundless accusations and simple slurs that it takes a while to go through them all!
*Yes, I removed sourced statements about the IHH , citing ]; WP:UNDUE is meant for exactly such situations, where information can be sourced but is irrelevant to the article in question. I could have cited ] as well, but that takes longer to type; in any case, I explained my position , and have not engaged in edit warring over the matter. No mention from Gilisa of the ], which I would also consider as "WP:UNDUE" in the ] article .
* was unnecessarily provocative. I apologise. However, as for the substantive issue of the ITIC report:
*It is not ] to point out that the conclusion that Erdogan knew about "planned violence" before the flotilla set sail is not in the . On the other hand, you can see ] in ] laid on by certain editors to "prove" that a video distributed by ] does not actually show IDF soldiers kicking and shooting an activist, as the RS claims. I concede that Gilisa themselves does not seem to have participated in the "analysis" of the Cihan video. However, s/he did contribute to ] about ], concluding that it was OK to use dispite the obvious difficulty in figuring out what's going on from the image alone; and also making nice little comments about (implying that that would make it OK to let them bleed to death under the Mediterranean sun?)
*The piece I described as a "sick joke" (and also ) was the ''We con the world'' video, put togther by a managing editor for a leading Israeli newspaper, for which the Israeli government had to apologise (''see'' from '']''). I assume that I must now have the same "political views" as the Israeli government... However, the comparison was made with the ], an alleged attempt by a group of Israeli students to send a flotilla of ships carrying humanitarian aid to (land-locked) Kurdistan, an "initiative" which to trying to ]!
*Conduct problems are in the eye of the beholder: I consider that the two editors Gilisa names have conduct problems, but not so serious as to engage in time-wasting ] over them
*Ben Yishay's account of the boarding has been contradicted many, many times by later reports. Gilisa fails to mention that I was a compromise paragraph which links to the account, but which does not include the contradicted details within the Misplaced Pages article. As above, it is not ] to point out logical contradictions between accounts on an article talk page.
@Andrensath, I'd rather refrain from publically attacking individual editors over and above what is necessary to refute the allegations made against me; I don't think that such attacks are a constructive approach to improving the article.<br/>] ] 12:28, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

::::Physchim62, I will answer in short as I not have much time to get into details right now. However, if requested I'll make the efforts to provide additional diffs. First, I didn't fail in nothing, I'm not following all or even most of your edits and I don't know exactly what you did and when in regard to your one non representative edit which you cited to argue your editing style is unbiased. I can refer only to cases where your edits were not comptibale with wikipedia guidelines, and there were far too many of these. Many times you interfer to get to consensus on talk pages by making irrelevant arguments and ignoring constructive discussion, for instance, and if you want me to prove it I'll look and find the diffs, you called one Israeli newspaper, listed in the RS list of WP, "liar"-without giving any creditable argument beside your personal opinion. You also wrote that the IDF reports are generally "spins". These two are only very few among many. If you argue you didn't used these words in the context I argue you did, then I will have to spend some time and to bring here the diffs.--] (]) 13:04, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

====Comments by others about the request concerning Physchim62 ====
===== Comment by Andrensath =====
I have to agree that the comments by Psychim62 deserve sanction, but the accusation by said editor that similar remarks were made about the IHH is worrying. If he can provide proof of editors making those remarks, I would suggest only a 1-2 day topic-ban. I would also be interested in the length of a topic-ban Ynhockey would push for, if one is applied. --] (] &#124; ]) 02:04, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

:What remarks about the IHH worrying you and by who they were made? This instance of removal of notable sourced info regarding to the IHH ("WP:UNDUE" according to Physchim62) is very worrying to me.--] (]) 08:28, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

::For the record, I was not stating that any such remarks were made about the IHH, merely commenting that the accusation they were made worried me, and inviting Physchim62 to provide proof of them. --] (] &#124; ]) 08:54, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I'm not sure what relevance that diff has to my previous comment, but feel free to add it to your comment below. --] (] &#124; ]) 08:54, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

===== Comment by Cs32en =====

It should be taken into consideration that the editor has not insulted other editors nor any particular individuals. Also, the first edit that has been reported actually precedes the warnings that have been mentioned in the complaint, and the second is an edit on his talk page, not in article or article talk space. Having said this, the language that is being used in the edits does not help to resolve existing controversies related to the article. Physchim62 should be advised to refrain from using such language.&nbsp;<span style="border:1px solid;color:#000085">&nbsp;]&nbsp;]&nbsp;</span> 02:59, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

:Are you suggesting that severe incivility generally directed is permissible? Racist comments? Anti-semitic comments? If so, are you making that up? Or can you point me to a guidance? Also, I'm not sure what your point is about the harsh insults being on his talk page and not in an article, or article space. Are you suggesting that wikipedia allows such statement in talk page space? If so, are you making that up? Or can you point us to a guidance. Tx.--] (]) 07:33, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::I fail to see any racist or antisemitic comments. Please point them out. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 08:25, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

===== Comment by Gilisa =====

I would like to first make a short reply to Cs32en: Physchim remarks about IDF soldiers are nothing different than similar remarks on US soldiers, they are very offensive to many Israeli editors, especially when made on such a sensitive article. <s>If I'm correct, and I can't find the diff now but I will look further if requested,</s> on 12 July, he also wrote that dogs should be offended when calling them "murder dogs". In any case, here are few additional remarks made by Physchim62 that may demonstrate better the need for signficant topic ban:

Implying me(?) and Israel (the country) are not sane


He objected to mention the Israeli allegations (but not only Israeli and not published only by Israeli media) according which Erodgan knew before the flotilla went its way there are violent activists on it. Instead of discussing it to the matter of fact he chose to answer in away seem to me as violating WP:SOP and to WP:OR


Continuously expressing his political opinion as a reason for why an edit is not acceptable: (“sick jock”)

And just an instance of what may seem as conduct problem when he reply to Zuchinni who request him to change his rude attitude through him and in his reply to No More Mr Nice Guy .

Calling a RS journalist article "propoganda" as excuse to not include it into the article, stating that the journalist couldn't see what he claimed to have seen and taking another source unrelated statement (not refering to Ben Yishay's report) "in contrast with previous reports" as indication Ben Yishay's report is not reliable .


===Discussion concerning Lemabeta===
I think he's a great contributor in other fields, but should be banned from editing in the I-P area and for two months at least considering previous warnings and his nature as an editor on the I-P as was very briefly exemplified here. --] (]) 07:00, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.<br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>


====Statement by Lemabeta====
:Infact, if I may reply to the OP of this AE, my first reply here where I compared the offensive effect of Phychim62 comments on IDF soldiers on Israelis to that American citizens, and others, may feel when the U.S army soldiers are being called "dogs" in insulting manner, I was a bit soft. In Israel the military service is mandatory as we always have someone in the "neigborhood" (and now even in the "city") to fight with and Israel is a small country. So, in principle, almost every Israeli was an IDF soldier or at least relatives who served in the IDF. --] (]) 10:44, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --] (]) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


:Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are '''related but distinct concepts'''. An ''ethnographic group'' refers to a '''community of people''' defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, ''cultural heritage'' refers to the *''practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past''. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
===== Comment by RolandR =====
:So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. ] (]) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
In an earlier case, still live on this page, a couple of editors complained about describing a living person as a "chimpanzee impersonator", and then apologising to the chimpanzees. This, it seems to me, is a far more egregious comment than the one at issue here. The editor in question, who has been blocked several times, in contrast to Physchim's clean record, was given not to repeat such comments. Under the circumstances, any more serious sanction against Physchim would seem excessive and unfair. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">] (])</span> 10:52, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) '''emerges from''' ethnographic groups but '''does not define the group itself'''. ] (]) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. ] (]) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
::::I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. ] (]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)


====Statement by (username)====
:Roland, my last comment on this AE, but what about WP:NOTTHEM? I can't see how one editor behavior justify the other one behavior, what more it's not related to any of the diffs here. I agree, as well as this thread OP, that Physchim62 contributions in chimestry relatd articles and so forth are great ones, he's a pro, and there, where most of his activity seem to be focused untill June, his record is clean and no one suggesting blocking him from edit in these areas. However, the concern become clear when one weight his editings in other areas comparing to his behavior in I-P related issues. Clean record give no immunity, certainly not for an editor that was warnned twice before specifically on the I-P topic.--] (]) 11:06, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
<!-- Copy and paste this empty section below the most recent statement and replace "(username)" with your username. -->


===Result concerning Physchim62=== ===Result concerning Lemabeta===
:''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.'' :''This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.''
<!-- When closing this request use {{hat|Result}} / {{hab}}, inform the user on their talk page if they are being sanctioned (eg with {{AE sanction}} or {{uw-aeblock}} and note it in the discretionary sanctions log. -->
<!-- Use {{discussion top}} / {{discussion bottom}} to mark this request as closed.-->
*<!--
<!-- Use {{hat|result is ... }} / {{hab}} to mark this request as closed if collapsing desired.-->
-->
* I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under ] from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". ] (] • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:<br><nowiki>;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]</nowiki><br><nowiki><!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---></nowiki> ] (]/]) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*{{tq| Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed"}} @]: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. ] (]/]) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Note that I've deleted ] as a clear G5 violation. I think ] is a bit more of a questionable G5. ] (]/]) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared&nbsp;... traditions" and "shared&nbsp;... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". ] (]/]) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. ] (]/]) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. ] (]/]) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. ] (]/]) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*:@]: They were "reviously given&nbsp;... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. ] (]/]) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
* {{re|Lemabeta}} Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words {{tqq| highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity}}. There's a reason we use the words "]" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?){{pb}}This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">&#91;]]</sup> <small>(])</small> 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
*{{u|EF5}}, I don't understand your {{tq|"Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above"}} statement, can you please explain what it refers to? ]? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
:That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by ]. I'll AGF that they ''were'' accidental, but OTOH, they surely ''ought'' to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? ] &#124; ] 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
::{{u|EF5}}, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are ], and the block log only logs blocks. ] &#124; ] 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).

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    PerspicazHistorian

    PerspicazHistorian is blocked indefinitely from mainspace. Seraphimblade 03:34, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning PerspicazHistorian

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    NXcrypto (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    PerspicazHistorian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBIPA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 17:57, 18 December 2024 - removed "discrimination" sidebar from the page of Hindutva (fascist ideology) even though the sidebar was inserted inside a section, not even the lead.
    2. 17:59, 18 December 2024 - tag bombed the highly vetted Hindutva article without any discussion or reason
    3. 10:15, 18 December 2024 - attributing castes to people withhout any sources
    4. 12:11, 18 December 2024 - edit warring to impose the above edits after getting reverted
    5. 17:09, 18 December 2024 - just like above, but this time he also added unreliable sources
    6. 18:29, 18 December 2024 - still edit warring and using edit summaries instead of talk page for conversation
    7. 14:46, 19 December 2024 (UTC) - filed an outrageous report on WP:ANI without notifying any editors. This report was closed by Bbb23 as "This is nothing but a malplaced, frivolous personal attack by the OP."
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    • Already 2 blocks in last 4 months for edit warring.
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I do not see any positive signs that this editor will ever improve. So far he has only regressed. Nxcrypto Message 15:53, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    While going through this report, PerspicazHistorian has made another highly problematic edit here by edit warring and misrepresenting the sources to label the organisation as "terrorist". This primary source only provides a list of organisations termed by the Indian government as "terrorist" contrary to MOS:TERRORIST. Nxcrypto Message 03:12, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning PerspicazHistorian

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by PerspicazHistorian

    • By far I am also concerned how my edits were forcefully reverted without a proper reason despite providing enough references. Please check how I am getting attacked by them on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu Page.

    I didn't know about the three-revert-rule before User: Ratnahastin told me about this: User_talk:PerspicazHistorian. Please grant me one more chance, I will make sure not to edit war.

    • In the below statement by LukeEmily, As a reply I just want to say that I was just making obvious edit on Chandraseniya_Kayastha_Prabhu by adding a list of notable people with proper references. And according to Edit_warring#What_edit_warring_is it is clearly said: "Edits from a slanted point of view, general insertion or removal of material, or other good-faith changes are not considered vandalism." It was a good faith edit but others reverted it. I accept my mistake of not raising it on talk page as a part of Misplaced Pages:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle.
    • As a clarification to my edit on Students' Islamic Movement of India, it can be clearly seen that I provided enough reference to prove its a terrorist organisation as seen in this edit. I don't know why is there a discussion to this obvious edit? Admins please correct me if I am wrong.
    @Valereee, Yes I read about 1RR and 0RR revert rules in Misplaced Pages:Edit warring#What edit warring is#Other revert rules. I now understand the importance of raising the topic on talk page whenever a consensus is needed. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 07:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    Yes, I will commit to that. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 13:10, 20 December 2024 (UTC) Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section. Seraphimblade 13:19, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    At that time I was new to how AFD discussions worked. Later on when Satish R. Devane was marked for deletion, I respected the consensus by not interfering in it. The article was later deleted. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 11:54, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Hi @Doug Weller , I just checked your user page. You have 16 years (I am 19) of experience on wiki, you must be right about me. I agree that my start on Misplaced Pages has been horrible, but I am learning a lot from you all. I promise that I will do better, get more neutral here and contribute to the platform to my best. Please don't block me.
    P.S.- I don't know If I will be blocked or what , according to this enforcement rules, I just want to personally wish good luck to you for your ongoing cancer treatments, You will surely win this battle of Life. Regards. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 12:23, 21 December 2024 (UTC)Moved comment to own section. Please comment, including replies, only in this section.Valereee (talk) 15:30, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
    • 1) I just asked an user @Fylindfotberserk if the page move is possible. What's wrong with it? I still have not considered putting a move request on talk page of article.
    2) Many of other sources are not raj era. Moreover I myself have deleted the content way before you pointing this out. Thank You ! PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:29, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    even @NXcrypto is seen engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics. see1see2 PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:37, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    as mentioned by @Valereee before, Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. You can discuss content related topics on talk pages of articles rather than personally targeting a user here in enforcement. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:42, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @Valereee I once filed a complaint to find it @NXcrypto is a sock (out of a misunderstanding, as all were teamed up similarly on various pages). I think he felt it as a personal attack by me and filed this request for enforcement. Please interfere. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 06:47, 29 December 2024 (UTC) moving to correct section Valereee (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    1)Yes I usually edit on RSS related topics, but to ensure a democratic view is maintained as many socks try to disrupt such articles. Even on Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh page, I just edited on request of talk page and added a graph. I don't think its a POV push.
    2) My main interest in editing is Hinduism and Indian History topics.
    3)There have been certain cases in past where I was blocked but if studied carefully they were result of me edit warring with socks(although, through guidance of various experienced editors and admins I learnt a SPI should be filed first). I have learnt a lot in my journey and there have been nearly zero case of me of edit warring this month.
    Please do not block me. PerspicazHistorian (talk) 14:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee I beg apologies for the inconvenience caused, thanks for correcting me. I will now reply in my own statement section. @Bishonen I am a quick learner and professionally competent to edit in this encyclopedic space. Please consider reviewing this enforcement if its an counter-attack on me as mentioned in my previous replies. You all are experienced editors and I have good faith in your decision-making capability.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Vanamonde93@Bishonen I have edited content marked as "original research" and "mess" by you, I am ready to help removing any content that might be considered "poorly sourced" by the community. Please don't block me.PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @Valereee This enforcement started for edit-warring and now I feel its more concerned to my edited content(which I agree to cooperate and change wherever needed). After learning about edit wars, there has been no instance of me edit-warring, Please consider my request.--PerspicazHistorian (talk) 08:27, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee I am not a slow learner, I understand the concerns of all admins here. I will try my best to add only reliable sources, and discuss content in all talk pages, as I already mentioned here. PPicazHist (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Valereee@UtherSRG I think admins should focus more on encouraging editors when they do good and correct when mistaken. I have made many edits, added many citations and created much articles which use fine citations. The enforcement started out of retaliation by nxcrypto, now moving towards banning me anyways. I started editing out of passion, and doing it here on wiki unlike those who come here just for pov pushes and disrupt article space(talking about socks and vandalizers on contentious Indian topics).
      The article prasada doesn't only has issue on citations, but the whole article is copypasted from the citations I added. I just wanted to point that out. Remaining about Misplaced Pages:CIR, I am currently pursuing Btech in cs from IIT delhi, idt I am a slow learner by any means. Still, happy new year to all ! PPicazHist (talk) 14:01, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
      @UtherSRG You mean to say, "The prasada is to be consumed by attendees as a holy offering. The offerings may include cooked food, fruits and confectionery sweets. Vegetarian food is usually offered and later distributed to the devotees who are present in the temple. Sometimes this vegetarian offering will exclude prohibited items such as garlic, onion, mushroom, etc. " is not copy pasted by this website? Is this also a wiki mirror website? How would you feel if I doubt your competence now? PPicazHist (talk) 14:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
      @ UtherSRG I just asked others to share their opinion in the enforcement. With all due respect, I don't think its wrong in any sense. PPicazHist (talk) 15:13, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
      To all the admins involved here,
      • I agree to keep learning and apologize if my previous edits/replies have annoyed the admins.
      • I have not edit warred since a month and please see it as my willingness to keep learning and getting better.
      • Please give me a chance, I understand concern of you all and respect your opinion in the matter. But please don't block me from editing from main article space. I promise that I will abide by all the rules and will learn from other editors.
      PPicazHist (talk) 15:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by LukeEmily

    PerspicazHistorian also violated WP:BRD by engaging in an edit war with Ratnahastin who reverted his edits and restored an article to a stable version by admin. Also, I want to assume good faith but it is surprising that PerspicazHistorian claims that he did not know the three revert rule given that he has more than 800 edits.LukeEmily (talk)

    Statement by Doug Weller

    I'm involved so just commenting. I don't think this editor is competent. I had to give them a community sanction caste warning as they were making a mess of castes. See this earlier version of their talk page.]https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:PerspicazHistorian&oldid=1262289249] and User:Deb's comment that "It was very unwise of you to keep moving Draft:Satish R. Devane to article space when it has not passed review. As a direct result of your actions, a deletion discussion is taking place, and when this is complete and the article is deleted, you will be prevented from recreating it. Deb (talk) 14:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)" There have also been copyright issues. I strongly support a topic ban. Doug Weller talk 11:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    I won't be involved in the decision. No more treatments for me, just coast until... Doug Weller talk 12:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Toddy1

    This is another editor who appears to have pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views. I dislike those views, but find it rather alarming that Misplaced Pages should seek to censor those views, but not the views of the political opponents. Imagine the outrage if we sought to topic-ban anyone who expressed pro-Republican views, but allowed Democrat-activists to say whatever they liked.

    A lot of pro-RSS/BJP editors turn out to be sock-puppets, so please can we do a checkuser on this account. And to be even-handed, why not checkuser NXcrypto too.

    If we want to talk about WP:CIR when editors make mistakes, look at the diff given by NXcrypto for "Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested" - it is the wrong diff. He/she did notify PerspicazHistorian - but the correct diff is .

    A topic ban from Indian topics would be unhelpful, unless given to both parties. Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India. Loading the dice against BJP and RSS editors will turn Misplaced Pages into a fringe encyclopaedia on Indian topics.

    I can see a good case for restricting PerspicazHistorian to draft articles and talk pages for a month, and suggesting that he/she seeks advice from more experienced editors. Another solution would be a one-revert rule to last six months.-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:55, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Capitals00

    I find the comment from Toddy1 to be entirely outrageous. What are you trying to tell by saying "Misplaced Pages is meant to be a mainstream encyclopaedia, and BJP and RSS are mainstream in India"? If you want us to entertain those who are in power, then we could never have an article like False or misleading statements by Donald Trump.

    You cannot ask topic ban for both editors without having any evidence of misconduct. Same way, you cannot ask CU on either user only for your own mental relief. It is a high time that you should strike your comment, since you are falsely accusing others that they "seek to censor" this editor due to his "pro-Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and pro-Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) views". You should strike your comment. If you cannot do that, then I am sure WP:BOOMERANG is coming for you. Capitals00 (talk) 15:20, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by Vanamonde93

    Toddy1: I, too, am baffled by your comment. We don't ban editors based on their POV; but we do ban editors who fail to follow our PAGs, and we certainly don't make excuses for editors who fail to follow our guidelines based on their POV. You seem to be suggesting we cut PH some slack because of their political position, and I find that deeply inappropriate. Among other things, I don't believe they have publicly stated anywhere that they support the BJP or the RSS, and we cannot make assumptions about them.

    That said, the fact that this was still open prompted me to spot-check PH's contributions, and I find a lot to be concerned about. This edit is from 29 December, and appears to be entirely original research; I cannot access all of the sources, but snippet search does not bear out the content added, and the Raj era source for the first sentence certainly does not support the content it was used for. Baji Pasalkar, entirely authored by PH, is full of puffery ("first to sacrifice his life for the cause of Swarajya", and poor sources (like this blog, and this book, whose blurb I leave you to judge), from which most of the article appears to be drawn. Appa (title), also entirely authored by PH, has original research in its very first sentence; the sources that I can access give passing mention to people whose names include the suffix "appa", and thus could perhaps be examples of usage, but the sources most certainly do not bear out the claim.

    I will note in fairness that I cannot access all the sources for the content I checked. But after spotchecking a dozen examples I have yet to find content PH wrote that was borne out by a reliable source, so I believe skepticism is justified. We are in territory where other editors may need to spend days cleaning up some of this writing. Bishonen If we're in CIR territory, just a normal indefinite block seems cleanest, surely? Or were you hoping that PH would help clean up their mess, perhaps by providing quotes from sources? That could be a pathway to contributing productively, but I'm not holding my breath. Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:00, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Thanks Bish: I agree, as my exchanges with PH today, in response to my first post here, have not inspired confidence. . Vanamonde93 (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

    Statement by UtherSRG

    I've mostly dealt with PH around Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ankur Warikoo (2nd nomination). They do not seem to have the ability to read and understand our policies and processes. As such, a t-ban is too weak. The minimum I would support is a p-block as suggested below, though a full indef is also acceptable. They could then ask for the standard offer when they can demonstrate they no longer have WP:CIR issues. - UtherSRG (talk) 20:05, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

    Based on these two edits, I'm more strongly leaning towards indef. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:27, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    They now indicate they believe the article they edited was copied from one of the websites they used as a reference, when in reality the website is a mirror/scrape of the Misplaced Pages article. I believe we are firmly in WP:CIR territory here. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:25, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    This is a mirror of the Misplaced Pages article. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:29, 31 December 2024 (UTC)

    Result concerning PerspicazHistorian

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    PerspicazHistorian, can you explain your understanding of WP:edit warring and the WP:3RR rule? I'd like you to read thoroughly enough to also explain wny someone may be edit warring even if they aren't breaking 3RR. Valereee (talk) 21:58, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

    @PerspicazHistorian, that explanation of edit warring is a bit wanting. An edit war is when two or more editors revert content additions/removals repeatedly. Even a second reversion by the same editor can be considered edit warring. Best practice -- and what I highly recommend, especially for any inexperienced editor -- is the first time someone reverts an edit of yours, go to the talk page, open a section, ping the editor who reverted you, and discuss. Do you think you can commit to that?
    Re: your question on why your "obvious edit" was reverted: we don't deal with content issues here, only with behavior issues, but from a very quick look, the source is 50 years old, and using a list headed "TERRORIST ORGANISATIONS LISTED IN THE FIRST SCHEDULE OF THE UNLAWFUL ACTIVITIES (PREVENTION) ACT, 1967" that includes a certain organization as a source that the organization should be described as a terrorist organization is WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH; in their revert NXcrypto provided an edit summary of "Not a reliable source for such a contentious label. See WP:LABEL." Please discuss at talk, not here; we don't deal with content here. Valereee (talk) 11:28, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
    I'm seeing this as a CIR issue. I'd like input from other admins, if possible. I'm a little concerned that setting a tban from IPA is just setting a trap. Maybe a p-block from article space would be a kinder way to allow them to gain some experience? Valereee (talk) 13:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, have you seen how many times I or others have had to move your comments to your own section? This is an example of not having enough experience to edit productively. Please do not post in anyone else's section again. Valereee (talk) 16:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
    I do agree we're in CIR territory, and the concerns expressed are completely valid. I don't think this editor is ill-intentioned. They just don't seem very motivated to learn quickly. Well-intentioned-but-a-slow-learner is something that can only be fixed by actually practicing what you're bad at. I'd prefer an indef from article space which gives them one more chance to learn here before we send them off to mr.wiki or Simple English to try to learn. Not a hill I'm going to die on, though. Valereee (talk) 11:36, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
    @PerspicazHistorian, like Uther I have major concerns about the edit you made yesterday, which included replacing a citation needed tag with these sources. The first is a company that markets astrology services. The second is the site for a religious sect. Neither is a reliable source for explaining the concept of prasada in Wikivoice. You made this edit yesterday, after you'd confirmed here and on my talk that you understood sourcing policy.
    The reason for an indef from article space is to allow you to learn this policy: You would go into article talk and suggest sources to fix citation needed tags. Another editor would have to agree with you that the sources are reliable before they'd add them. Valereee (talk) 12:51, 31 December 2024 (UTC)
    • A tban from IPA for PerspicazHistorian would be a relief to many editors trying to keep this difficult area in reasonable shape. However, Valereee makes a good point about 'setting a trap': it's doubtful that PH would be able to keep to a tban even if they tried in good faith. I would therefore support a p-block from article space. Bishonen | tålk 16:48, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
      Vanamonde93, no, I don't really think PH can usefully help clean up their mess; I was following Valereee, who has been going into this in some depth, in attempting to keep some way of editing Misplaced Pages open for PH. It's a bit of a counsel of desperation, though; there is very little daylight between an indef and a p-block from article space. Yes, we are in CIR territory; just look at PH's recent supposed evidence on this page for NXcrypto being "engaged in edit wars before on contentious Indian topics": one diff of an opponent complaining on NXcrypto's page, and one diff of somebody reverting NXcrypto. What do those actually prove? That NXcrypto has opponents (big surprise). So, yes, as you suggest, I'll support an indef as well. Bishonen | tålk 20:09, 29 December 2024 (UTC).
    • Is there a length of time proposed for the p-ban or would it be indefinite? Barkeep49 (talk) 17:06, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
      I would say indefinite; not infinite, but I'd be wary about letting them back into articlespace without some kind of preclearance. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • It looks to me like there is a consensus for an indefinite partial block for PerspicazHistorian from article space. Unless any uninvolved admin objects within a day or so, I will close as such. Seraphimblade 06:31, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
      Given PH's recent slew of requests on multiple admin talk pages, yes, please do. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:58, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

    References

    1. "Significance of Different Type of Prasad in Hinduism For God". GaneshaSpeaks. Retrieved 2024-12-30.
    2. "What Is Prashad". Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj. Retrieved 2024-12-30.

    LaylaCares

    There is consensus to remove LaylaCares's EC flag. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning LaylaCares

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Vice regent (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    LaylaCares (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/ARBPIA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 13:54, December 17, 2024 EC gaming


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Pretty obvious case of EC gaming. Account created on Nov 17, 2024, then about 500 mostly minor edits followed by the first substantial edit ever was the creation of this article on Dec 17 (subsequently moved to draftspace).VR (Please ping on reply) 08:00, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning LaylaCares

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by LaylaCares

    Statement by Aquillion

    Question: Assuming it's determined that they gamed the extended-confirmed restriction, would the page they created be WP:G5-able? I've asked the relevant question in more detail on the CSD talk page, since it is likely to come up again as long as we have such a broad restriction on effect, but I figured it was worth mentioning the issue here as well. --Aquillion (talk) 14:16, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by Dan Murphy

    Please look at Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, written by the account under discussion. It's a hit job, originally placed in mainspace by this account. Anyone who wrote that shouldn't be allowed with 1 million miles of the topic.Dan Murphy (talk) 23:14, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by starship.paint

    I've edited Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations, so Dan Murphy's link is inaccurate for the purposes of this discussion. For the version of Draft:Hamas–UNRWA relations with content only written by LaylaCares, click this link. starship.paint (talk / cont) 10:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning LaylaCares

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I agree that this looks like EC-gaming. Absent evidence that the edits themselves were problematic, I would either TBAN from ARBPIA or pull the EC flag until the user has made 500 edits that aren't rapidfire possibly LLM-assisted gnomish edits. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:02, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I agree on the gaming piece and would suggest mainspace edits+time for restoration of EC. I will throw out 3 months + 500 (substantive) main space edits. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:16, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I agree with Barkeep but I'd up it to 4 months. I don't believe that a TBAN is necessary at this point. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:45, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Aquillion: I agree that the draft should be G5'd, but will wait for consensus to develop here. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      I don't think the wording of WP:ECR allows for deletion of a page that was created by an EC user. (ECR also seems to forget that anything other than articles and talkpages exists, but I think the most reasonable reading of provision A still allows for G5ing drafts at admins' discretion if the criteria are met.) That said, a consensus at AE can delete a page as a "reasonable measure that necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project". Deleting under that provision is not something to be done lightly, but I think for a case where a page's existence violates the spirit of an ArbCom restriction but not the letter, it'd be a fair time to do it. And/or this could make for a good ARCA question, probably after PIA5 wraps. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 03:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I would just pull EC and require the editor to apply via AE appeal for its restoration. They should be very clearly aware that receiving such restoration will require both substantial time and making real, substantive edits outside the area, as well as an understanding of what is expected of editors working in a CTOP area. Seraphimblade 01:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • I see a clear consensus here to remove the EC flag. For clarity, when I proposed a TBAN above it was because removing this flag is an ARBPIA TBAN as long as the ECR remedy remains in place; it's simply a question of whether the editor get the other privileges of EC or not. I don't see a consensus on what to do with the draft, but given that other editors have now made substantive contributions to it, I don't believe it's a good use of AE time to discuss the hypothetical further. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    AstroGuy0

    AstroGuy0 has been issued a warning for source misrepresentation by Voorts. No other reviewers have expressed any wish for further action. Seraphimblade 06:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning AstroGuy0

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Hemiauchenia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:41, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    AstroGuy0 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics/Race and intelligence

    (Even though this isn't the usual R&I fare, I consider the intersection of "Race/ethnicity and sex offending", to come under "the intersection of race/ethnicity and human abilities and behaviour")

    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 03:19, 4 January 2025 Asserts that "A majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men" despite the cited source (freely accessible at ) does not mention the word "Pakistani" or any variant once.
    2. 01:40, 4 January 2025 Describes the sex offender ring as "Pakistani" in the opening sentence when the cited source in the body says that they were only "mainly Pakistani"
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    Made aware of contentious topics criterion: 01:52, 4 January 2025
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Additional comments by editor filing complaint:

    This new user seems intent on POVPUSHING regarding "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" and making contentious claims that are not backed up by sources. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:44, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Discussion concerning AstroGuy0

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by AstroGuy0

    Statement by Iskandar323

    This rather dated "Asian/Muslim grooming gangs" malarkey from the UK has recently been pushed on social media by a certain US tech billionaire and is now recirculating in right-wing social media and the blogosphere, partly in connection with UK politics, so this trend could flare before it dims. Iskandar323 (talk) 03:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning AstroGuy0

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    The second diff was before AG0 received a CTOP alert. I've alerted AG0 to other CTOPs that they've edited in, and I am going to warn them for their conduct in diff #1 without prejudice to other admins determining that further action is warranted. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:33, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
    I also looked at the source, and it indeed does not in any way support the claim made; it does not mention "Pakistani" even once. This is a fairly new editor, but I think we need to make it very clear to them that misrepresentation of sources is not something we will tolerate. Seraphimblade 04:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Given that AstroGuy0 has already been issued a warning, I don't think anything further is necessary, and will close as such unless any uninvolved admin shortly objects. Seraphimblade 18:23, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    Lemabeta

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Lemabeta

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    EF5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Lemabeta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log


    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Eastern Europe#Final decision
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 5 Jan 2025 - Made a draft on a European ethnic group, which they are currently barred from doing.
    2. 4 Jan 2025 - Started a page on a Georgian ethnologist.


    If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)
    • Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I likely filed this improperly, but to sum it up they continue to make pages in a scope they were banned from. EF 20:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    On the bullet point, I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (Not sure if I’m allowed to reply here) I’ve never filed an AE report before, and I wasn’t sure if “block” meant T-ban, p-block, etc., so I just picked whichever one made the most sense. EF 21:45, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Response to Bishonen. Moved from results section. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:58, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    (RES to Bishonen) That's fair. When starting the AE, it only gave me nine options, none of which seemed to fit right. The third bullet ("Previously given a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction or warned for conduct in the area of conflict on DIFF by _____") didn't seem to fit, as the sanction wasn't for verbal conduct. EF 22:05, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Here

    Discussion concerning Lemabeta

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Lemabeta

    Yeah, my bad. Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" I recognize my mistake. --Lemabeta (talk) 20:30, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Ethnographic groups and cultural heritage are related but distinct concepts. An ethnographic group refers to a community of people defined by shared ancestry, language, traditions, and cultural identity. In contrast, cultural heritage refers to the *practices, artifacts, knowledge, and traditions preserved or inherited from the past. But cultural heritage is indeed a component of ethnographic groups.
    So i don't believe ethnographic group should be considered as either history of the Caucasus or cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 20:56, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    In my opinion, cultural heritage (both tangible and intangible) emerges from ethnographic groups but does not define the group itself. Lemabeta (talk) 20:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I think ethnographic groups fall under the category of Ethnography, or even socio-cultural antropology but for sure not cultural heritage. Lemabeta (talk) 21:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    I understand, i already apologized on my talk page for this accident. I will not repeat this mistake again. Lemabeta (talk) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Lemabeta

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I don't see Lemabeta mentioned in the case itself, but they're currently under a topic ban imposed by a consensus of AE admins from "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed". theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:26, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      To be fair, when you click above to add a new enforcement request, the template states:
      ;Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ]
      <!--- Link to the sanction or remedy that you ask to be enforced ---> voorts (talk/contributions) 20:32, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • Didn't realize translation of a page of ethnographic group would count as a violation of my topic ban about "history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed" @Lemabeta: what did you think "the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage" meant? I think it's pretty obvious that that an article on an ethnic group from the Caucasus and about an ethnologist who writes about that region is covered by your topic ban. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:37, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Note that I've deleted Draft:Rachvelians as a clear G5 violation. I think Mate Albutashvili is a bit more of a questionable G5. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      Your definition of "ethnographic group" includes the phrases "shared ancestry" (i.e., history), and "shared ... traditions" and "shared ... cultural identity" (i.e., cultural heritage). Your attempt to exclude "ethnographic group" from either of the two categories in your topic ban is entirely unpersuasive, particularly since your topic ban is to be "broadly construed". voorts (talk/contributions) 21:13, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Tamzin: this doesn't seem like a mistake to me, but I'm okay with a logged warning here. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: This is about violating the TBAN. Per my response to leek, I think the issue is with the AE request template, which is a bit unclear. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:00, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @Bishonen: I don't think a block is needed here, but the next violation, definitely. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:06, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
      @EF5: They were "reviously given ... contentious topic restriction", the topic ban at issue. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:09, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • @Lemabeta: Not every single thing you could write about an ethnic group would fall under cultural history, but that's not really relevant on the Rachvelians page, where the History section was entirely about their cultural history, even containing the words highlighting their ethnographic and cultural identity. There's a reason we use the words "broadly construed" on most TBANs, and a reason we encourage people to act like they're TBANned from a broader area than they are. (Consider: Would you feel safe driving under a bridge where clearance is exactly the same height as your vehicle? Or would you need a few inches' gap to feel safe doing it?)This does seem like a good-faith misunderstanding, so if you will commit to not making it again in the future, I think this can be closed with a clarification/warning. But that's an important "if". If you want to argue semantics, then the message that sends to admins is that you don't intend to comply with the TBAN, in which case the next step would be a siteblock. -- Tamzin (they|xe|🤷) 21:10, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    • EF5, I don't understand your "Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction or contentious topic restriction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above" statement, can you please explain what it refers to? This T-ban? Lemabeta's block log is blank.
    That said, I'm unimpressed by Lemabeta's lawyerly distinctions above, and also by their apology for "accidental violations". I'll AGF that they were accidental, but OTOH, they surely ought to have taken enough care to realize they were violations; compare Voorts' examples. I suggest a block, not sure of what length. A couple of weeks? Bishonen | tålk 21:36, 5 January 2025 (UTC).
    EF5, OK, I see. Blocks and bans are very different, and the block log only logs blocks. Bishonen | tålk 22:02, 5 January 2025 (UTC).