| Revision as of 20:36, 20 August 2010 edit7mike5000 (talk | contribs)11,019 edits →Section on Depression vs. Suicide← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 20:05, 29 October 2024 edit undo2601AC47 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers1,127 edits →Introductory Paragraph Concision: ReplyTag: Reply |
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|dykentry=...that ''']''' ''(cigarette pictured)'' has a history that dates back at least 5,000 years and is one of the most widely practiced ]al activities in the world? |
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== Vague wording == |
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". Tobacco smoking is today by far the most popular form of smoking and is practiced by over one billion people in the majority of all human societies. Less common drugs for smoking include cannabis and opium. Some of the substances are classified as hard narcotics, like heroin, but the use of these is very limited as they are often not commercially available." |
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which substances, needs rewording, or just remove the last sentence, nothing of value would be lost :/ <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 16:50, 9 May 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Reworded to make more sense: "Some substances smoked are classified as hard narcotics, like heroin, but the use of these is very limited as they are often not commercially available." |
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--] (]) 16:53, 9 May 2010 (UTC) |
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==Pending changes== |
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This article is one of a number selected for the early stage of the trial of the ] system on the English language Misplaced Pages. All the articles listed at ] are being considered for level 1 pending changes protection. |
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The following request appears on that page: |
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{{Mbox|text=Many of the articles were selected semi-automatically from a list of indefinitely semi-protected articles.<br />Please confirm that the protection level appears to be still warranted, and consider unprotecting instead, before applying pending changes protection to the article.}} |
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Comments on the suitability of theis page for "Pending changes" would be appreciated. |
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Please update the ] page as appropriate. |
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Note that I am not involved in this project any much more than any other editor, just posting these notes since it is quite a big change, potentially |
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Regards, ''] ]'', 00:04, 17 June 2010 (UTC). |
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== Smoking vs. smoking tobacco == |
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Isn't it possible to differentiate between the effects of smoking in general and smoking tobacco in particular? The article seems to mix the two a lot. For example the IQ study (101 vs. 90), was it due to the smoke or to the type of smoke (i.e. tobacco). Will people also get stupid from smoking other drugs than tobacco? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 12:30, 21 June 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Introductory Paragraph Concision == |
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== Section on Depression vs. Suicide == |
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Today I noticed a newly-added section to the Smoking article titled "Depression-Suicide". The content was as follows: |
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<blockquote><nowiki> |
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==Depression-Suicide== |
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There is a proven correlation between cigarette smoking and depression. Studies have suggested that smoking cigarettes may have a direct causal effect on the development of depression<ref></ref> and that ] may have a therapeutic effect, ameliorating the symptoms of depression in smokers diagnosed with depressive disorders. There have been various studies done showing a positive link between smoking, suicidal ideation and suicide attempts.<ref>Cigarette smoking and completed suicide among middle-aged men: a population-based cohort study in Japan. Iwasaki M, ''et. al.''Ann Epidemiol. 2005 Apr;15(4):286-92.PMID 15780776</ref><ref>Cigarettes and suicide: a prospective study of 50,000 men. Cigarettes and suicide: a prospective study of 50,000 men. Am J Public Health. 2000 May;90(5):768-73.PMID 10800427</ref> |
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In a study conducted among nurses, those smoking between 1-24 cigarettes per day had twice the suicide risk; 25 cigarettes or more, 4 times the suicide risk, than those who had never smoked.<ref>Hemenway D, Solnick SJ, Colditz GA. Smoking and suicide among nurses. Am J Public Health. 1993 Feb;83(2):249-51. PMID 8427332</ref><ref>{{cite journal |author=Thomas Bronischa, Michael Höflerab, Roselind Liebac |title=Smoking predicts suicidality: Findings from a prospective community study|journal=Journal of Affective Disorders |
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|volume=108 |issues=1 |pages=135–145 |year=2008 |month=May|pmid= |pmc= |doi= 10.1016/j.jad.2007.10.010 |url=}}</ref> In a study of 300,000 male U.S. Army soldiers, a defintive link between suicide and smoking was observed with those smoking over a pack a day having twice the suicide rate of non-smokers.<ref>Miller M, Hemenway D, Bell NS, Yore MM, Amoroso P. Cigarette smoking and suicide: a prospective study of 300,000 male active-duty Army soldiers JAm J Epidemiol. 2000 Jun 1;151(11):1060-3. PMID 10873129</ref> |
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{| class="wikitable" style="text-align:left; margin-left:1em; float:right" |
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|bgcolor="B0CCE5" colspan="5"|<div align="center">'''Link Between Smoking Depression and Suicide'''<br></br></div> |
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|bgcolor="FBF4CE" colspan="5"| |
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'Current daily smoking, but not past smoking, predicted the subsequent occurrence of suicidal thoughts or attempt.''<ref>Breslau N, Schultz LR, Johnson EO, Peterson EL, Davis GC. Smoking and the risk of suicidal behavior: a prospective study of a community sample. ''Arch Gen Psychiatry''. 2005 Mar;62(3):328-34. PMID 15753246</ref> |
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''It would seem unwise, nevertheless, to rule out the possibility that smoking might be among the antecedent factors associated with the development of depression.'' <small>(Murphy JM ''et al.'' 2003)</small><ref>Murphy JM ''et al.'' Cigarette smoking in relation to depression: historical trends from the Stirling County Study.Am J Psychiatry. 2003 Sep;160(9):1663-9.PMID 12944343</ref> |
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'Abstinence from cigarettes for prolonged periods may be associated with a decrease in depressive symptomatology.'' <small>(Lembke A ''et al.'' 2007)</small><ref>Lembke A ''et al.'' Depression and smoking cessation: Does the evidence support psychiatric practice? Neuropsychiatr Dis Treat. 2007 August; 3(4): 487–493. PMCID: PMC2655079 </ref> |
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''The stress induction model of smoking suggests, however, that smoking causes stress and concomitant negative affect. <small>(Aronson KR. ''et al.'' 2008)</small><ref>Aronson KR. ''et al.'' Smoking is associated with worse mood on stressful days: results from a national diary study. Ann Behav Med. 2008 Dec;36(3):259-69. Epub 2008 Dec 6. |
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PMID 19067100</ref> |
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</nowiki></blockquote> |
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I think that there's some bias and misreporting going on here, in that smoking is far more common among people with mental heath issues ranging from depression to schizophrenia, but that the affects of tobacco smoking serves as a "band-aid" for the underlying issues. Also, this entire section was tobacco-centric, and we've gone rounds on this talkpage reminding contributers that there already exists a ] article. Indeed, there's already a mental health section in the ] article. Beginning a section with weasel words like "There is a proven correlation between cigarette smoking and depression," doesn't make for factual articles. The lay reader would interpret that in the same way a non-scientist would interpret a wording such as "Evolution is just a theory." The point I'm trying to make is that this is not the tobacco smoking article -- this article is on the practice, culture and history of smoking in general, and pamphleteering to persuade isn't the point of the Misplaced Pages project. 19:28, 20 August 2010 (UTC) |
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The current introductory paragraphs could be made more succinct by direct wording (i.e. "Smoking has negative health effects" could be reworded to "Smoking harms people"), reorganization, and the removal of small details which can already be found in more relevant articles (i.e. "bidis" and "nicotinic acetlycholine receptors" are already mentioned in "Tobacco smoking"). |
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::People like yourself crack me up, with your twisted logic and your rude mouth. The section is titled what? Health effects of tobacco. Invoking nonsensical words like "weasel words" is supposed to support your inane logic? "There is a proven correlation between cigarette smoking and depression," it's called simple English '''There is a proven correlation between cigarette smoking and depression''' and suicide. Multiple studies, one of which involved 300,000 people does make for ''factual articles''. "''I'm invoking the 3-revert rule until issues resolve''" what are you going to cry? |
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I made such an edit, but it was reverted before I could group my single-sentence paragraphs with the relevant large paragraphs. The reversion's comment said to talk to others about it. I am mainly a Wiktionary editor accustomed to unilateral edits on infrequently edited entries, so I apologize if I have violated etiquette, but I think these changes improve the article. Please have a look and tell me what you think. ] (]) 17:12, 29 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::''pamphleteering to persuade isn't the point of the Misplaced Pages project'', ''some bias and misreporting going on here'' |
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:: What exactly is are comments like that supposed to accomplish? |
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::People like yourself detract from ''the point of the Misplaced Pages project.'' Know-it-alls who take a proprietary position over articles, make statements they can't support with facts, and try to shut out everybody else. When I need someone to interpret things for me you will be the first one I'll call. The fact that there are two articles on ] and ] is asinine, especially because they have the same information slightly regurgitated. |
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:That would be me. The reason, more specifically, is that this article's subject is quite important, and any significant edits (especially the lead section) should preferably reach consensus from members of WikiProjects ], ], ] and ] before they are applied. A lesson learned the hard way by me months ago. ] (]) 17:30, 29 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::Smoking and I.Q.<br> |
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::I appreciate your response and I'm glad Misplaced Pages editors take this topic seriously. I worry the current wording is unclear because of the length and frequent use of technical and formal vocabulary instead of using colloquialisms, implication (rather than explicit mention), and single-word equivalents (i.e. "active substance" instead of "drug" or "pharmacon", explicit "route of administration" mention instead of just being implied, "negative health effects" instead of "harm"). I know some people who might these daunting to read. The sooner the text is improved the better, regardless of my edit. |
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::According to a study of more than 20,000 Israeli military recruits that was published in 2010, smokers have a lower I.Q. than non-smokers. Those who never smoked had an average I.Q. of 101, while those who smoked more than one pack per day had an average I.Q. of 90. |
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::Would you tell me how I should go about consulting those members? I am new to this, and don't know what would suffice. Do I need to have them show their approval of my edit on this talk page? Also, I notice the "Addictions and recovery" and "Health and fitness" WikiProject pages say they are inactive; is it still possible to reach consensus? Also, the Pharmacology WikiProject seems to focus on chemical articles; is it necessary to seek their approval when all I propose is rewording or omitted existing information (that presumably was approved)? ] (]) 19:57, 29 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::Mentioning smoking and I.Q. is somehow deemed important, the fact that multiple studies including in Asia that smokers are at least twice as likely to commit suicide, without any underlying ''mental illness'', isn't. I think people who smoke would find that interesting, but I'm not on Team Shitzu |
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:::You may start by contacting anyone of ] and posting what you want ]. ] (]) 20:05, 29 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::I noticed a smart mouth isn't uncommon for you. |
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:::Thank you for the condescending answer. So I take it that means you have nothing to back up your claim with. --Saddhiyama (talk) 19:05, 9 April 2009 (UTC) |
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::] (]) 20:36, 20 August 2010 (UTC) |
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The current introductory paragraphs could be made more succinct by direct wording (i.e. "Smoking has negative health effects" could be reworded to "Smoking harms people"), reorganization, and the removal of small details which can already be found in more relevant articles (i.e. "bidis" and "nicotinic acetlycholine receptors" are already mentioned in "Tobacco smoking").
I made such an edit, but it was reverted before I could group my single-sentence paragraphs with the relevant large paragraphs. The reversion's comment said to talk to others about it. I am mainly a Wiktionary editor accustomed to unilateral edits on infrequently edited entries, so I apologize if I have violated etiquette, but I think these changes improve the article. Please have a look and tell me what you think. PhalanxDown (talk) 17:12, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
level-3 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
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