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ok I have legit reasons for said change....gay black republican....possible definition one who is suddenly gay, not accepted by other gays so becomes republican for attention....republican party needs minority vote till after elections hence pic or web ugly dance......of said gay black republican also note said gay black republican is real person does really exist known said person since elementary school openly bashes gays and black please refer to race and sexual orientationjust thought the world should know how why and yes it is possible.....it has to be in wiki the world must know not racist, or judging but did you know.....one who knows all......i didn't ] comment added by ] (] ''links removed'' | |||
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Ok dude fair enough, I did try to find a more credible source than the sun. But couldn't find anything, and the credible sources were just quoting what the sun had said. Thank you for giving me a reason, don't like it when other people just edit and delete text without saying why. | |||
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<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">]</bdi> 18:03, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
I am now proud owner of a account! | |||
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Thanks for posting your well-worded message to ]. He has stopped making wholesale changes. You are right of course, the edits are not vandalism per se, but it was late and I couldn't think of where to ask for advice. I have now posted a message at ] to ask for input. Regards, --] <sup>(])</sup> 16:08, 26 September 2010 (UTC) | |||
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The were not copy editing. The weakened the meaning of the text. ] (]) 04:42, 26 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
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<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">]</bdi> 22:22, 16 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
Your mass edits were not copy editing and you substantially weakened FAQ for no good reason. You did not leave a comment on the FAQ talk page explaining you want to weaken FAQ because you think it was too strongly worded. Why do you think your edits were just copy edits. ] (]) 04:52, 26 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
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== Problems with NPOV rewrite == | |||
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Moved from Talk:Pseudoscience. "QG: I didn't ask for a generic assessment of NPOV issues, I asked you about this particular case. --Ludwigs2 19:55, 26 October 2010 (UTC)" | |||
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This comment shows what happens when there is no ASF policy. We do need guidance or else editors will not know what to do. ] (]) 06:05, 27 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
] from the past month (December 2024). | |||
: I have some thoughts on this I'm working up. Maybe you'll be able to give feedback. I want to lay out that we do have some guidance here, just not explicit guidance, and not the guidance you would prefer. So there are two questions I see: one, how much guidance is needed; and two, which guidance. | |||
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:I think laying out a really comprehensive policy on attribution, that can take into account both your concerns about Fringe issues and Pseudoscience as well as other editors concerns about overly emphasizing statements as facts will take some careful writing. In the meantime, I haven't seen a mob of people blowing up Wiki with damaging attributions. | |||
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] '''Administrator changes''' | |||
:In particular, at the Pseudoscience article, I find the discussion to be insightful. You (and I) initially preferred no attribution. Kenosis acted conservatively by adding it. Ludwigs reasoned that we would need more support to establish pseudoscience as a standard aspect of scientific literacy. Now we have to go find more sources. There's something really beneficial about that process. | |||
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:While unnecessary attribution can lead to dilution, somewhat stronger requirements for stating things as general facts should improve the sourcing and temper claims which might otherwise be overbroad. In short, in the absence of ASF there is a chance to craft better guidance on policy, and there is, as always, the reasoning of editors. ] (]) 06:14, 27 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
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::In reality, in the termination of ASF, it is likely that new editors will make common mistakes and unintentionally add in-text attribution and experiences editors will eventually forget there ever was ASF. According to ASF, when there is no serious dispute the text can be asserted but Ludwigs2 argument is that there must be consensus among sources or for non-controversial text anyone who personally disagrees with the source can add in-text attribution. I can't see how it will help improve Misplaced Pages pages when editors are all over the place with different arguments rather than relying on policy. How could it be neutral to suggest there is a serious disagreemnt where there is none. For a BLP article, implying there is a serious dispute where there is none is a BLP violation. Now, NPOV conflicts with BLP. This is a serious matter. ] (]) 06:50, 27 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
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:::QG, I understand your concern, but new editors didn't know what ASF was anyway, and experienced editors are concerned about creating a quality encyclopedia regardless of policy. Ludwigs did set a higher bar for assertion, and somewhere in between that bar and yours, is where I think proper policy lies. The idea that editors will be all over the place ''in a bad way'' assumes that rather than making intelligent and fitting choices narrowly tailored to each article, that they will just go crazy. Strict policies are only useful because they limit debate and have consistency; they don't always produce ideal results, though. | |||
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:::You asked the question, 'How could it be neutral to suggest there is a serious disagreement when there is none', but that question relies on a strong assumption: that attribution always implies a serious dispute. Why can't it just mean 'lack of fact or broad-consensus status'. Attribution is also appropriate for obvious cases of opinion, but also statements that are uncontested but don't seem to be universally true. You want to put the burden of proof on the attributers; at Pseudoscience, Ludwigs suggested it should be on the asserters. Either is reasonable, but a sound policy would put the burden on a more nuanced breakdown of whatever will lead to the best outcome. (While attribution under ASF implied a contested item, there was nothing inherently ''correct'' about putting the burden of justifying attribution entirely on competing sources. It strikes me as equally overbroad to craft a policy that says: ''always'' use attribution ''unless'' you can demonstrate consensus. Neither extreme is necessary.) | |||
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:::As for the BLP issues, I don't think I follow your example. If we say, "According to The Newspaper, Actress Jane is pregnant" instead of "Actress Jane is Pregnant", how is that more risky? | |||
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:::Last, and not most importantly, if you have these very severe worries, why do you think that other experienced editors don't share them? ] (]) 07:09, 27 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
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::::I suppose we are just going to have to agree to disagree. ] (]) 07:45, 27 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
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::::Mass changes to NPOV without consensus | |||
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::::* {{userlinks|Kotniski}} | |||
::::Kotniski has a pattern of making major changes to NPOV policy without consensus. Kotniski has again made to NPOV policy without consensus when there is . ] (]) 07:45, 27 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
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::::* {{userlinks|Ludwigs2}} | |||
::::Ludwigs2 without ever gaining consensus. Ludwigs2 continuously edits NPOV policy without consensus and deletes long established parts of policy. Editors are concerned Ludwigs2 is forcing changes to NPOV policy, while not adhering to the advice of ]. Ludwigs2 has exported the disagreement with long term NPOV to V policy, and refuse to abide by consensus at NPOV. Ludwigs2 wrote in part: "such as the fact/opinion distinction, which I disapprove of". Ludwigs2 is personally against the intent of long established ASF when the editor admitted he disapproves of the . It is the aim of Ludwigs2 to because Ludwigs2 disapproves of the . Ludwigs2 has not explained the and did .</small> | |||
:::: ''refactored here by Ocassi''. | |||
::::Other editors do share my concern. Editors have previously tried to rewrite NPOV earlier this year and there was a RFC and it was agreed upon to restore NPOV. Then months later editors rewrote NPOV again against consensus. For non-controversial text using in-text attribution will dilute Misplaced Pages articles. "According to" implies a serious dispute. Do you really support the to a policy page when the changes drastically weakened the meaning of ASF and now editors are arguing without any direction at Talk:Pseudoscience with the that was against NPOV less than a week ago. ] (]) 07:45, 27 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::::Perhaps, though I still think it's worth trying to just write policy that can handle more situations well. | |||
:::::I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to show me below. I see that Kotniski, Ludwigs, and others wanted to rewrite NPOV to be less explicit and more simple. I see that you, and some others who are particularly concerned with Pseudoscience/Fringe articles running amok wanted to keep ASF. My preference is for the policy to be both simpler and better tailored to the attribution issues. I don't think it's there yet, but this rewrite seems to me to be a cleaner draft to go from. | |||
:::::I guess my question, then, is, the NPOV rewrite has been up for several days now, and you seem to be the primary opponent... if there's a lot of opposition to it, where is it? I imagine an RfC will have to approve the rewrite sooner or later (and Ludgwigs suggested as much), but in the meantime, are people really just not paying attention? ] (]) 08:00, 27 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
::::::The rewrite is less explicit and vague. You think a more simple version that resulted in a more vague version is somehow a cleaner version. Now Ludwigs2 is arguing that editors should show consensus among reliables sources or otherwise attribution in the text is appropriate rather than the previous meaning of ASF was that the statement can be asserted without attribution in the text when there is no serious dispute. Policy is not cleaner. In a nutshell, the mass rewrite without consensus is incoherent and makes little sense. The rewrite was more than less simple. It changed the meaninng of ASF and now editors are changing there argument such as at Talk:Pseudoscience with comments that are all over the place. ] (]) 16:29, 27 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::::::Because the rewrite was so vague it changed the meaning of core policy. ] (]) 03:00, 31 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
== About the Chiropractic == | |||
Hi there, | |||
Thank you for the letter and the explanation of why my editing was undone. I am very disappointed that Misplaced Pages has published what is currently written about Chiropractic. To be honest I am wondering how I go about challenging what is currently on there? Do I have to submit a different version or can I challenge what is there now without submitting a new article? I would love to take half a day and put together a well put together article with references. At this time I am taking 28 credit hours so my time is very pressed. Please let me know what I can do to get the false information removed from this article. I find it hard to believe that Misplaced Pages was very strict on the accuracy of the data that is currently published. I will do my best to follow what ever instructions that you provide. Just to be sure I am acting in the best interest of my school and profession I am going to approach our legal department tomorrow and let them know about this obviously malicious attempt to slander chiropractic. | |||
My schools website is: | |||
www.logan.edu | |||
If you would, please take a look at this website for yourself to get an idea of what Chiropractic is like in reality. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 02:33, 28 October 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
== sidebar == | |||
Hi. Re ], wp:about is already in the sidebar. I suggest a quick fix to your 2 comments ;) -- ] (]) 23:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
:fixed--] (]) 15:23, 31 October 2010 (UTC) | |||
== STiki / Research pointer == | |||
{{Talkback|West.andrew.g}} | |||
== Chiropractic ....rock_climber02 == | |||
Thanks for your feedback on the chiropractic section. I will more closely follow the guidelines you mentioned in the future. I am just now learning how this all works and want to work within the current system. thanks again. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 04:02, 4 November 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
== chiropractic == | |||
Thanks again for your patience with my learning curve. I will take some time to more thorougly read some of the talk points. There are multiple studies that do not have the extreme anti chiropractic findings that are currently cited on the page. I will attempt to do a better job at displaying this. Thanks again for your constructive criticism and feedback. ] (]) 16:28, 4 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
== Thank you! == | |||
Thanks again for your help and feed-back. I am working on doing just as you described for a much less controversial topic on this subject, that of chiropractic education. The current information is highly inaccurate and this should be easy enough to substantiate. Thanks again and I really appreciate your help in understanding the process.] (]) 17:45, 4 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
== Bolditis == | |||
Re: your revert , please read ]#Descriptive titles: ''If the page title is descriptive it does not need to appear verbatim in the main text, and even if it does it should not be in boldface.'' (For a tongue-in-cheek but very succinct and accurate summary of the reasoning behind this, see ].) My edit was 100% correct. Your revert was not, please undo it. Thank you. --] (]) 09:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
*The edit at ] was a matter of personal taste, the MOS does not apply to project space pages (''i.e.'', the reasoning for your revert there is not valid, but what the heck). Wrt to an account: been there, done that. Compared to my experiences from my tenure as a registered editor, the frustration I suffer at the hand of trigger-happy Twinkle-abusers is minuscule.<p>However, the formatting correction I made at ] is pretty much non-negotioably correct. Bolding separate words or word groups is just obviously idiotic. You either see it or you don't. Now have a nice day and I hope you enjoy those idiotically bolded separate word groups. Thanks for being part of the problem, mate. --] (]) 10:43, 5 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
== Template with instructions == | |||
Do you want a template with beyond linking to policy in the article or not. ] (]) 02:23, 8 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
Do you agree to a template with including material about MEDRS and ASF. I understand you will consider it but I want to know if you now agree to it with having explicit instructions. ] (]) 18:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
:I think that MEDRS is only appropriate on pages with medically related articles. As for explicit information about ASF I'm not sure it would be appropriate unless it was simply a link/summary of WP:ASSERT, which explains the variety of issues around attribution and the presentation of facts and opinions. | |||
:I think what you're trying to accomplish by informing editors is a good idea, but since you have a strong predisposition to a certain policy aspect and a strict interpretation of that policy, one which is informed by your generally skeptical approach to alternative medicine, I'm not sure that there is sufficient consensus to actually make such a template. But I support the idea, if it works. ] (]) 18:35, 8 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
::Do you support the template the way I think it should work with explicit instructions. ] (]) 20:00, 8 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
<b>Ideal sources for biomedical assertions.</b> | |||
The appropriateness of any source depends on the context. In general, the best sources have a professional structure in place for checking or analyzing scientific findings, evidence, facts, and legal aspects; as a rule of thumb, the greater the degree of scrutiny given to these issues, the more reliable the source. Where a topic is subject to a significant amount of academic research – whether it be hard science, social science or the humanities – Misplaced Pages articles should accurately reflect the current status of research. | |||
Academic publications, such as peer-reviewed journals and books published by well-regarded academic presses, are usually the most reliable sources where available. Non-academic sources can be used, particularly if they are respected mainstream publications. This includes books by reputable publishers as well as newspapers, magazines, journals and electronic media. | |||
In topics which are the subject of scholarly research, the most authoritative sources are usually academic works that have undergone scrutiny by a community of experts in a field, particularly peer-reviewed systematic reviews. Quality mainstream media sources can be used for areas such as current affairs – including the socio-economic, political, and human impact of science – or biographies of living persons. Non-academic sources may misreport or misinterpret data and its significance, and should therefore not be relied upon exclusively as sources of that kind of material where academic secondary sources are available. The full guideline is ]. | |||
I have previously worked on a summary for reliable sources. The above three paragraphs can go into a template. MEDRS applies to any article where there is a . You or I can summarise the . Of course, for a template it must be simpler (shorter) than the policy version but still properly summarise ASF. Either you are going to agree with this specific proposal or I will not spend several hours working on it without consensus. ] (]) 20:00, 8 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
::Basically, I would like to see where it's going. You know up front that: I like the idea of instructions; I prefer that anything policy oriented be seen by eyes at NPOV and rather than just chiropractic; I agree with MEDRS (applied specifically to medical issues); I agree with using scholarly research where it is available; I agree with using quality non-academic sources for medical issues so long as they are used appropriately; I think that alternative medicine articles exist somewhere between MEDRS and RS, and think MEDRS can be overly applied here in ''certain'' circumstances, particularly the non-research parts of the article; I don't agree with your general interpretation of ASF that in every instance where something ''can'' be stated as fact that it ''must''; I take general concern that issues can be complex and a rigid application of ASF can oversimplify or overstate (just like a too loose application of ASF can dilute claims and allow undue influence); I no longer see the prior version of ASF as having broad consensus support--if that is an issue then NPOV is the place to go first; I think ] is the closest we have to a comprehensive instruction here. | |||
::All of those things factor in to my understanding of policy here, and I'm not sure if we have consensus about them. So, don't invest yourself if it's conditional on total agreement, but do continue to present these issues to me and others if you think it will improve things. Your idea is also similar to the discussions about academic sourcing that have been going on over at ]; maybe it would be appropriate to try and draft something and bring it there, too. ] (]) 22:18, 8 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
:::I think the abnormal changes to ASSERT is incoherent to comprehend. It does not even have the examples of the inline qualifiers. It was removed without consnesus. ] (]) 17:53, 9 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
So, if along with your above MEDRS guideline, we could combine the following, I'd be interested: | |||
Achieving what Misplaced Pages understands as "neutrality" often means carefully and critically analyzing a variety of sources, and then attempting to convey the results to the reader clearly and accurately. Misplaced Pages aims to describe disputes, but not engage in them. There are few hard-and-fast rules for doing this—much depends on the good faith of editors, who should be striving to provide information, not promote a particular cause. However, observing the following principles, together with those of verifiability, will help to achieve the level of neutrality which is appropriate for an encyclopedia. | |||
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* Prefer non-judgmental language. A neutral point of view neither sympathizes with nor disparages its subject, although this must sometimes be balanced against clarity. Present opinions and conflicting findings in a disinterested tone. | |||
* Accurately indicate the relative prominence of opposing views. Ensure that the reporting of different views on a subject adequately reflects the relative levels of support for those views, and that it does not give a false impression of parity, or give undue weight to a particular view. For example, to state that "According to Simon Wiesenthal, the Holocaust was a program of extermination of the Jewish people in Germany, but David Irving disputes this analysis" would be to give apparent parity between the supermajority view and a tiny minority view by assigning each to a single activist in the field. ] (]) 23:42, 8 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
:This is not a summary of the consensus version of ASF. You have not shown consensus for the mass change to core policy and you have not shown how ASF was improved by making it weaker (simpler). ] (]) 17:53, 9 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
== Ignore all rules == | |||
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] '''Guideline and policy news''' | |||
I thought you may like the Ignore all rules template since you like simpler or no instruction creep for policy. ] (]) 02:23, 8 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
* Following ], ] was adopted as a ]. | |||
* A ] is open to discuss whether admins should be advised to warn users rather than issue no-warning blocks to those who have posted promotional content outside of article space. | |||
] '''Technical news''' | |||
* The Nuke feature also now ] to the userpage of the user whose pages were deleted, and to the pages which were not selected for deletion, after page deletions are queued. This enables easier follow-up admin-actions. | |||
] '''Arbitration''' | |||
== Primary sources == | |||
* Following the ], the following editors have been elected to the Arbitration Committee: {{noping|CaptainEek}}, {{noping|Daniel}}, {{noping|Elli}}, {{noping|KrakatoaKatie}}, {{noping|Liz}}, {{noping|Primefac}}, {{noping|ScottishFinnishRadish}}, {{noping|Theleekycauldron}}, {{noping|Worm That Turned}}. | |||
] '''Miscellaneous''' | |||
You may want to think twice before editing the again. ] (]) 18:14, 9 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
* A ] is happening in January 2025 to reduce the number of unreviewed articles and redirects in the ]. ] | |||
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== Possible BLP violation == | |||
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Please stop your accusations against your personally disagree with. ] (]) 22:52, 10 November 2010 (UTC) | |||
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Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin December Issue
Here is a quick overview of highlights from the Wikimedia Foundation since our second November issue. This will be the final bulletin for 2024 and we'll be back in late January 2025 with the next issue. Please help translate.Upcoming and current events and conversations
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Tech News: 2024-51
Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.
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The Signpost: 24 December 2024
- From the archives: Where to draw the line in reporting?
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Administrators' newsletter – January 2025
News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2024).
- Following an RFC, Misplaced Pages:Notability (species) was adopted as a subject-specific notability guideline.
- A request for comment is open to discuss whether admins should be advised to warn users rather than issue no-warning blocks to those who have posted promotional content outside of article space.
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- Following the 2024 Arbitration Committee elections, the following editors have been elected to the Arbitration Committee: CaptainEek, Daniel, Elli, KrakatoaKatie, Liz, Primefac, ScottishFinnishRadish, Theleekycauldron, Worm That Turned.
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