User talk:NickCT: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 13:28, 10 July 2011 editNickCT (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers17,943 edits →Sock?: re Bob drobbs ← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 18:30, 2 January 2025 edit undoYapperbot (talk \| contribs)Bots85,300 edits Feedback Request Service notification on a "Religion and philosophy" request for comment (1/2 this month). You can unsubscribe at WP:FRS.
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			== Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment ==
	== Ruby ==

			]Your feedback is requested at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) \| Is this wrong? Contact ]. \| Sent at 18:31, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
	Please either provide a citation to support your comments or strike your comment. ] (]) 20:35, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
	:I'm a little confused. I think you may have misread my comments. I've replied on the talk page. ] (]) 20:47, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
	::I see you replaced it, I have struck it again, please don't replace it again it is an uncited BLP violation and an attack on a living person. Please take this as a warning, I have written a report and if you replace your comment I will report you. ] (]) 22:07, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
	:::Look Off2, I'm willing to discuss this politely, but at the moment, I think you're pretty obviously violating ] and ]. Perhaps you ought to take a step back and consider your actions? ] (]) 22:25, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

	== ~~FYI~~ - ~~ANI~~ ==		== Signature: Scott Adams RfC ==

			You did not sign your statement for the ]. It is required, so please do so. You can see ] for examples in other RfC's. Also, another editor corrected your spelling of "controversial" in the statement, which you spelled . Thank you. ] (]) 16:59, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
	Please see - ] (]) 22:27, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
			:{{reply to\|Stoarm}} - Thanks for the suggestion and the spelling note. I guess I've gotta fess to the typo, as it's a little hard to controdict.
			:I think the RfC is OK as the bot seemed to list it correctly despite my not signing. ] (]) 01:19, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
			::Your ] is required. The only reason the bot listed it is because you used fictitious signatures as examples in the part that outlines how responses are to be formatted. Are you going to sign the statement? ] (]) 13:33, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
			:::Required by? I'll consider signing it. I'm not sure exactly what the value would be. Is your concern that RfC isn't neutrally worded or something? ] (]) 13:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
			::::It doesn't matter what the value is. It's required. I'm not sure why you're making such a basic issue so difficult. You are a long-time editor and I'm sure know when signatures are and are not required. I provided WP:SIG, which I'd have to assume you're very familiar with already. Are you claiming some sort of exemption from this requirement? It's your RfC and so you should obviously sign it, just as ]. Are you going to sign it? ] (]) 14:13, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
			:::::I am long time editor. I've done dozen of RfCs. Signed few of them. This is first time anyone has complained. Seems like a you thing. ] (]) 14:44, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
			::::::No, it's a requirement thing. And apparently agrees. If you've done dozens of them but have only signed a few of them, that's wrong. You should sign ''all'' of them, just like it's done in all the other RfCs. Your uncivil and uncooperative behavior over such a basic issue is disappointing. It's a shame that it took an administrator to correct what you refused to do. Yes, you're a long time editor; so you should know better and do better. ] (]) 14:57, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
			:::::::When did I refuse to do it? I said I was considering it. You're either intentionally mischaracterizing or having trouble reading.
			:::::::RedRose seemed to think it's important for neutrality. Since I've asked you whether you felt the RfC was neutral and you didn't respond, I can only assume you disagree. So again, what do '''you''' feel the benefit is?
			:::::::You don't think it's a little goofy that you were trying to make a point about how important it was to sign, when it was in fact, already signed? If it was really that important, wouldn't you have recognized? ] (]) 16:44, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
			::::Update: The issue is now moot. I just noticed that an administrator appropriately for you since you failed to do so. You can also see that their edit summary says you violated ] <strike>by making yours the first !vote</strike>. In the future, I hope you will follow the requirement to sign any RfCs that you initiate. I was trying to be nice by asking you (multiple times) to please sign it, rather than making it a noticeboard issue for an admin to handle. ] (]) 14:26, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
			:::::I see that. Acutally I think the sig was in the wrong place. {{ping\|Redrose64}} - For the record, I try to make a really clear distinction between the neutrally phrased RfC and my non-neutral position on the RfC by separating them into different sections.
			:::::Out of curiousity, does anyone feel like I actually phrased this RfC non-neutrally, or are we arguing about angels on the head of a pin? If you feel like I was being non-neutral in posing the question, I'm happy to consider that. ] (]) 14:52, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
			::::::It's nothing to do with sections. ] says {{tq\|Legobot will copy the markup of your statement (from the end of the {{tl\|rfc}} tag through the first timestamp) to the list of active RfCs}}. Note that this says ''timestamp'', not signature, and in {{diff\|Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Biographies\|prev\|1147147849\|this edit}} we find that it copied up to and including the "13:01, 25 September 2050 (UTC)", even though it is clearly a bogus timestamp and the preceding signature used a fake username. Quite apart from the fact that bogus timestamps can cause problems for Legobot further down the line, a major problem is that having the line beginning "Support Option A" included in the RfC listings has given the impression that a real opinion was part of the RfC statement, which goes against {{tq\|Keep the RfC statement (and heading) neutrally worded}}. My edit placed a real signature and a correct timestamp (copied from further down the page) before those non-neutral items, with {{diff\|Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Biographies\|prev\|1147250783\|this effect}}; but my effort was nullified by {{diff\|Talk:Scott Adams\|prev\|1147374339\|this edit}}, with {{diff\|Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Biographies\|prev\|1147376059\|this effect}}.
			::::::In making {{diff\|Talk:Scott Adams\|prev\|1147414738\|this edit}}, {{user\|Floquenbeam}} has not helped matters by dropping their own sig into the middle of the statement, with {{diff\|Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Biographies\|prev\|1147421025\|this effect}}. --] 🌹 (]) 22:11, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
			:::::::{{reply to\|Redrose64}} - Mea culpa. I messed up the bot. I hope we can all appreciate the "fake" usernames/timestamps were not an attempt to decieve anyone. I've tried to correct it. ] (]) 00:52, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

			== April 2023 ==
	== Re: Reformatted your comments ==

			] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.<!--Template:Discussion notice--><!--Template:ANI-notice--> ] (]) 20:39, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
	Oh most definitely, I shall be TPing your house for this sir! Just kidding, no, I have no issue whatsoever with that. The bullet points make it much more pleasing to the eyes. Thanks for letting me know though. :) Now I just need to fix Failbot' signing mistake (I am putting four tildes and Wiki is putting the sig .______., you don't have to, bot!) TheArchaeologist 18:52, 20 February 2011 (UTC) <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			:Hey guys. seemed to disappear before I got a chance to see it, so I'm responding here.
			:Geez..... I try to tell someone they're good at something and this is what I get.
			:{{reply to\|Ad Orientem}} - I'm not sure if you want to come down from the ivory tower that is ANI, but this debate could be quickly resolved by simply closing ]. A certain editor seems to be having trouble letting go of language that this RfC has shown is not right. ] (]) 13:57, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
			::I've posted a link to the RfC at BLPN. If the general trajectory of the discussion doesn't change over the next few days, I will consider closing it. -] (]) 14:34, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
			:::On a side note... ''Geez..... I try to tell someone they're good at something and this is what I get.''
			:::Tread carefully with the snark. My note at ANI was intended as a friendly word of caution. But being blunt, some of your past commentary has had an abrasive edge to it that is not conducive to cordial debate. I would strongly prefer not to have to address this subject again. -] (]) 19:42, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
			::::I don't start the fires Ad. And I certainly don't go whining about other's disruptive behaviors.
			::::I appreciate your helping with the RfC, b/c many others wouldn't have bothered, but you are pandering to bad behavior. ] (]) 19:47, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
			:::::If you have specific concerns about other editors, you are free to raise those in the appropriate forum. The subject here are your biting comments directed at/about another editor. And they are to stop. -] (]) 19:52, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
			::::::I'm not going to raise them. I'm going to fix them. As I sought to end edit warring w/ this RfC. Let's finish up the RfC. We can eliminate the language I sought to eliminate a month ago and we can end the wikidrama. ] (]) 20:00, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

	== ~~Hail,~~ ~~Sir~~ ~~Nick!~~ ~~Thou~~ ~~hath~~ a ~~barnstar!~~ ==		== Please stop the slow edit war at ] ==

			It's being discussed in the RFC right now, so please stop edit warring and let it sit at the ] until it's closed. ] (]) 17:19, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
	{\| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #F0E68C;"
			:{{reply to\|ScottishFinnishRadish}} - Fine. I do think there's some level of perversity in us all looking at something, all agreeing it's wrong, then saying "let it be". If it's wrong, why not fix it? ] (]) 17:35, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
	\|rowspan="2" valign="middle" \| ]
			::Because someone reverted what you saw as the fix. No reason to go back and forth with the edit while there is an ongoing discussion. ] (]) 18:31, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
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			:::The RfC is basically down to choice between the current language and two possible alternatives. No one, not even its initial proponent, supports the current language. Beyond making a ], why not just change it now? ] (]) 18:45, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
	\|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" \| '''The Knight-Defender of Consensus Barnstar'''
			::::Because someone objected, and edit warring isn't the way to handle it. As it's already being discussed it can be left at the ] until a consensus emerges. ] (]) 18:56, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
	\|-
			:::::I guess we can allow a ] to filibuster the process. ] (]) 19:02, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
	\|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" \| For your extraordinary effort in promoting and helping organize the process of consensus, without which Misplaced Pages would be impossible, and for doing so with such impartiality and admirable patience, you are righteously awarded this shield and Coat of Arms! Thank you for your fine work!  – <font face="Cambria">] (])</font> 22:41, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
			*Edit warring is a no no. It's not complicated. There are a few exceptions (vandalism, copyright violations and serious BLP stuff) but that's it. It doesn't matter if you like them or not. Themz the rules until they aren't. -] (]) 19:34, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
	\|}

			== Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service ==
	:Thanks Ohio! I value these recognitions, especially from editors like you, and I think this one is appropriate. I've come to learn that despite ], WP essentially is a democracy, and that's something I don't think we should shy away from. In general, when you get enough people focused on, and discussing a question, the answer you end with is usually more right than wrong. Bickering with some of the vocal and tenacious minorities that plague WP and warp POV, rarely helps. Calling in third parties and demonstrating that consensus is against those minorities with well written RfCs and straw polls usually does... ] (]) 14:03, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
	:Finally I have a full 3 barnstars. That's respectable enough to post on my user page! ] (]) 14:03, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

			]Your feedback is requested at ], and at ], and at ], and at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) \| Is this wrong? Contact ]. \| Sent at 11:36, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
	== When will you learn? ==

			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	To comment on the content, and not on an editor? Besides your comment stinks, and is as biased as your editing on I/P conflict related issues. Why didn't you say anything, when I wrote ] or ] just to name a few. Have you ever written a kind word about Judaism, or Jews? Yeah, your comment stinks D: D8 D;--] (]) 15:29, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
	:Hmmmm... Well, I guess you have made more than 1 article that isn't a blatant POV push. I'll add a note to my earlier comment. But seriously ], you have to admit that you do have a history of starting up controversial I/P articles. You don't think I have any grounds for making my comment?
	:Additionally, saying things like ''"your comment stinks"'' and ''"Have you ever written a kind word about Judaism"'' doesn't really ] or seem particularly ]. ] (]) 15:37, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

			]Your feedback is requested at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) \| Is this wrong? Contact ]. \| Sent at 14:31, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
	::Unbelievable! The more you say the more false accusations come out of your mouth. I started around 70 articles ];]; ]; ];] ];];];];];];];]; ];]; ]; ]; ]; ];];
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	I could have go on, but what the point? I recommend you removing your comment from DR. They do not add to your cause, and only make you look stupid, because a person who makes claims without knowing what he's talking about does look stupid. Please have a nice day.--] (]) 16:10, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
	:Ok ]. Look. I don't patrol through your contrib history. I do follow articles for deletions. Perhaps I got a false impression of the kinds of articles you're creating, b/c all of your articles that come to AfD tend to be controversial I-P articles.
	:I'll clarify again if you wish, but I'd point out again that comments like ''"make you look stupid"'' and ''"false accusations come out of your mouth"'', aren't overly helpful. Best, ] (]) 16:28, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
	::There's nothing else to clarify, just strike out your comments (these are false and sarcastic accusations that have no place in AFD), and say you made them without looking through my contrib history, and now you realized that you were wrong.--] (]) 16:34, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
	:::Struck. Frankly, I wouldn't mind if you just deleted all the comments relating to the dispute. But that's up to you. ] (]) 16:41, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
	::::I . I hope it is what you meant in your comment above. If I got it wrong,please revert me.--] (]) 02:38, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
	:::::That's fine. ] (]) 03:10, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	== Hope you don't mind ==

			]Your feedback is requested at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) \| Is this wrong? Contact ]. \| Sent at 19:32, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
	I hope you don't mind, but I ] since the discussion on the NPOVN was archived. Thought I'd save you the trouble... '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">]</span>''' 03:20, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
	:Not at all. I was procrastinating. Thanks for getting to it. ] (]) 21:13, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

			== Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment ==
	== BLP, ethnicity, gender ==

			]Your feedback is requested at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) \| Is this wrong? Contact ]. \| Sent at 18:31, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
	]

			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	Is where Wraith is causing a bit of argument at the moment. He uses the same strawman there, too.<br />--] (]) 16:22, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
	:] - I've delved into this debate several times in the past. I really support your POV. WP shouldn't be a forum for shoving people into often ambiguous, and many times irrelevant ethnic/racial categories. Keep me informed in your debate, and let me know if I can do anything to help. ] (]) 16:41, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

			]Your feedback is requested at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) \| Is this wrong? Contact ]. \| Sent at 15:32, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
	::Thanks. I've often participated in CFD, and written these resulting guidelines about EGRS topics, over the past 8 years.<br />--] (]) 16:56, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	== browser through what? ==

			]Your feedback is requested at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) \| Is this wrong? Contact ]. \| Sent at 21:31, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
	You left a link on Jimbo Wales' talk page () that you said was interesting to browse through, but I didn't see any results at all. Is that just me? ] (]) 08:15, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

			== Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment ==
	:Hey... that's an IP range. So it shows all contributions from IPs starting with 214.13.
	:I'm guessing the reason you can't see it is because you don't have your preferences setup correctly. Please see ], the line starting with "A search form, allowing you to search by username, IP addre". ] (]) 15:35, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

			]Your feedback is requested at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) \| Is this wrong? Contact ]. \| Sent at 09:30, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
	::Thanks - after three or four tries I managed to get my Preferences to save this with the box checked, and then I saw many contributions. ] (]) 20:26, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

			== Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment ==
	== the Public Policy Initiative Assessment Team Wants You! ==

			]Your feedback is requested at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) \| Is this wrong? Contact ]. \| Sent at 01:30, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
	Hi NickCT, it looks like a lot of your contributions fall within the scope of ], and I was hoping you would be interested in assessing articles with the . There is more info about assessment on the ]. If you're interested or just curious you can sign up on the ] or just contact me. Thanks! ] (]) 23:23, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	== Hi there ==

			]Your feedback is requested at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) \| Is this wrong? Contact ]. \| Sent at 20:30, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
	Hi NickCT. I notice you followed up to my reply on Jimbo's talk page. I'm not going to reply there, for a few reasons. Firstly, I appear to be unable to explain to anyone's satisfaction why trying to weaken an editor's argument by speculating on their religious bias is an extremely toxic thing for the project. Fair enough, perhaps my language skills aren't sufficient to make my point, so there's probably little benefit to me trying. If someone doesn't ''get'' why "you're probably just supporting this because you're a Jew" is a personal attack, probably no amount of hypothetical dialogue about Methodists is going to change that. You either believe in ], or you don't.

			== Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment ==
	Secondly, Jimbo doesn't care. ARBCOM is in the process of accepting the case involving Noleander and the "Jews and..." articles, so he's certainly not going to step on their toes and start sanctioning editors while they're deliberating on this whole mess. Any continued discussion on his talk page would largely be for the benefit of other people reading, and I don't feel a particular need to spend time entertaining them.

			]Your feedback is requested at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) \| Is this wrong? Contact ]. \| Sent at 17:31, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
	If you sincerely don't understand my perspective, then I'll be willing to try to explain it a couple more times as best I can on your talk page or mine. But if you do understand it and think it's stupid or "naive", then we're probably just going to have to agree to disagree. ] (]) 14:58, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	:@] - Hey. Thanks for your response. Few points.
	:1) I think it's appropriate that you reply here. Jimbo's talk page is probably not the best place to be having this discussion.
	:2) I'd agree with you that "you're probably just supporting this because you're a Jew" could probably be considered a "disgusting" personal attack. On the other hand though, saying "you're probably approaching this subject from a Jewish perspective, which may not be entirely neutral given the subject matter at hand" might be a valid criticism (we'll abandon the hypothetical dialogoue here that could substitute in "American perspective" or "Methodist perspective"). There are probably a lot of grey areas in-between those two comments.
	:3) I don't think your perspective is "stupid". What you're doing is good. Being on guard against bigotry is good. I just think we should be cautious assuming peoples' comments are "disgusting"/bigoted, when really they might simply be asking the question "Hey! Given your background, are you in a position to discuss this neutrally?".
	:4) ] - I appreciate the spirit of the policy, but I really don't think questioning another editor's perspective (so long as it's done respectfully) is really a personal attack.
	:5) On another note, I haven't really been following the whole ] debate, but having interacted with this editor before my impression is that he's always been fairly cordial and that he doesn't engage in the traditional aggressive editing tactics common to the whole Israel-Palestine field. I've just cast my eye over ], which as far as I can tell is what initiated the controversy. My initial impression is that it seems somewhat ] and unencylopedic. I understand your sentiment re POV ], and it doesn't surprise me that many would share it; however, I really don't think this was Noleander's intent...
	:6) Thanks for the conversation! ] (]) 15:51, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

			]Your feedback is requested at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) \| Is this wrong? Contact ]. \| Sent at 18:31, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
	::Thanks for your reply, and your civil tone throughout. I'm definitely going to have to disagree with you on #4. "Jewishness" is a bit of an edge case in that both ethnicity and religion are involved. You don't seem to have a problem with the editors' religion being brought up; would you feel differently it was solely their ethnicity? For example, if an editor came to AN/I and pointed out a newly created article that was basically an attack page against black people, and someone else came along later and said "sure are a lot of black people commenting. Wonder if that makes them biased?" If that wouldn't bother you... well, I guess I'm out of analogies to offer. The assumption that Jews would naturally react in a knee-jerk fashion against an editor accused of anti-Semitic edits – rather than the AGF assumption that they might better understand what is and is not truly anti-Semitic, presumably having some experience dealing with it – is another problem I have with the "sure are a lot of Jews commenting here" comment. ] (]) 17:24, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
	:::re ''"would you feel differently it was solely their ethnicity?"'' - An interesting point. Perhaps I would. Somehow saying "You only feel that way b/c you're Asian" strikes me as a bit more offensive than "You only feel that way b/c you're Mormom".... but then again, perhaps that's only b/c we're more sensitive to racial intolerance than religious intolerance? I mean, I'm guessing the average African American POV regarding the civil rights movement varies from the norm in the same way that a Protestant's POV regarding the reformation might vary. Are religion and race really all that different in the end? They both seem like quasi-abstract classifications into which we group ourselves and others....
	:::re ''""Jewishness" is a bit of an edge case in that both ethnicity and religion are involved"'' - True. It's probably worth noting that people tend to use the word interchangeably. It's difficult to know if someone really means it in a racial or religious sense. Frankly, this is a topic that still confuses me. Ethnicity and religion are different. If someone is introduced to me as Jewish, do I first assume they mean ethnically or religiously? Personally, I've always thought of it as religious first, then ethnic, but there are those who seem to think the opposite.
	:::Anyways, I don't think our POVs are different enough to warrant extended discussion. I'd agree it's not polite or appropriate or in the best spirit of ] to say something like "You guys are only saying that b/c you're Jews", but at the same time, we probably shouldn't automatically assume that someone saying that is a racist/bigot. ] (]) 18:52, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
	::::Agreed. I would guess the majority of things that ''sound'' racist or bigoted are probably just the result of people speaking/writing before thinking, rather than a reflection of any malice or hatred. At least, that's the AGF view of it. :) ] (]) 19:04, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	==My analysis of mathsci's example==

	Noleanderøs text:
	''Marvin Perry states that the Talmud deviates widely from the early Christian approach to money: whereas the New Testament viewed money and profit as "filthy lucre" (1 Tim 3:3), the Talmud took a positive view of money and profit because the Talmud "was written, compiled and edited, taught and interpreted for centuries by rabbis who were merchants, artisans, and professional men, knowledgeable and accepting of business and finance, in theory and practice."''
	:Sourced to this text (the underlines text has been left out in Noleander's summary):
	''More fundamental than language and other customs in shaping Jewish attitudes and practice was the Talmud. It takes a positive stance with regard to economic activity, in sharp contrast with the New Testament and Patristic theologians who were vigilant against, as they thought it to be, filthy lucre and serving Mammon, and thus incorporated a strong, mystical, antiworldly, antieconomic strain in Christian theology and ethics. The Talmud by contrast was written, compiled and edited, taught and interpreted for centuries by rabbis who were merchants, artisans and professional men, knowledgeable and accepting of business and finance, in theory and practice. They were family men, and some of them earned their living as merchants and the like, <u>so as to serve the community without pay</u>. It <u>may be</u> that Judaism's affirmative outlook on the world—''Weltbejabung'', what Weber called being "accomodated to the world"—made Jews <u>more rational, less mystical, and more focused on life</u>, and thus more likely to engage and be successful in economic activities ''<u>in some degree</u>''. Also the Talmud, intricate in structure and intellectually demanding as it is, may have taught Jews to be logical, analytical, and rational ''in some degree''. <u>More significantly, however, in Talmud and Bible alike, getting and spending are far from being the primary or ideal purpose of life. Learning and wisdom were the jewels without price, which meant that Jews were literate and educated in civilizations where historically these assets for economic doings were rare.</u> ''

	By leaving out the underllined text and changing minor wordings such as:

	::"economic activity" > "money and profit"
	::"New Testament and Patristic theologians" > "christians"

	Noleander manages to make Perry make the opposite argument of the one he was actually making, namely that the while certain social aspects of Jewish life may have made Judaic theology less biased against economic activity it is in fact the case that the Talmud and Bible both value knowledge and spirituality highly - and that this value of literacy required Jews to have skills that could make them especially succesful. Noleander in contrast makes Perry say that the Talmud and Bible are signinficantly different, that judaic theology is different from all christian theology and not just early Patristic theology. That this interpretation of Perry is correct becomes clear when compared with this sentence later on in the book: "'' Expectedly, Sombart simplifies matters terribly, reducing the Bible and Talmud to philistine justifications for money-grubbing. God and man are linked by a "businesslike connection" in which each person's deeds of good and evil are reckoned up in "a complicate system of bookkeeping," the one rewarded as profit, the other punished as loss. Many historians have demonstrated that such expositions as Sombart indulges in here are more stereotype and caricature than analysis; according to the modern scholar Ellis Rivkin, "The notion that Jews let loose capitalism is one of those persistent myths that grow with exposure.''" Noleander has in effect turned Perry's balanced and neutrally worded account into Sombart's caricature that he was trying to refute. ] 19:32, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
	:Ok. Well look, for the sake of simplicity, let me paraphrase what I see as the main difference between Noleander's wording versus the text.
	:''Noleander'' - "The Talmud deviates widely from the early Christian approach to money, in that the Talmud takes a positive view of money and profit."
	:''Text'' - "The Talmud deviates widely from the early Christian approach to money, in that the Talmud takes a positive view of money and profit, but both note that getting and spending are far from being the primary or ideal purpose of life".
	:Does this seem like a fair paraphrasing of the two?
	:Frankly, the only difference I really see between the wordings is one of subtle tone. I'd agree that original text perhaps has a more positive tone to it, but I don't think Noleander's version really tries convey the "opposite" meaning.
	:I think if we were making even a minor effort to assume good faith here, and giving Noleander the benefit-of-the-doubt, we'd just assume that this was an accidental and perhaps non-notable omission of content from the reference that slightly changed the tone of the material.
	:You'd really have to be vindictive to call this "clear" evidence of intent to distort references. ] (]) 19:52, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
	:I don't have an opinion about intent or an agenda to paint Noleander as an antisemite (nor for that matter anything to be vindictive about - I have never interacted with Noleander). I don't care about that. What I see is a pattern of very careless editing in a very sensitive topic area. I personally don't think wikipedia has anything to loose by letting Noleander edit in an area that is less sensitive and where failure to understand and correctly represent sources have less negative consequences. Misplaced Pages is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit - except for those who are not ] enough to follow good editing practice as laid out in our policies.] 20:00, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
	::Maunus - I might partly agree with your "careless editing in a very sensitive topic" comment. But I'd point out, that there is a world of difference between that, and the "antisemite" label some people are trying to apply to Noleander. Additionally, I think WP is crammed full of sensitive topics, no? That's part of what makes it fun.... I think if you applied the same level of scrutiny you did to Noleander's edit in other areas, you'd probably find no end of "careless editing". Regardless, thanks for the civil conversation. I wish you the best. ] (]) 00:52, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

			]Your feedback is requested at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) \| Is this wrong? Contact ]. \| Sent at 22:30, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
	==RM alert==
	There's a move request discussion going on at ], with which you were previously involved. I'd be grateful if you could contribute to the new discussion. '''<span style="font-variant:small-caps">]</span>''' 08:22, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

			== Be more responsible ==
	== Beefman, and ] ==

			I've reverted your edit on ] that labels him as a "missing person." If Western news outlets have not seen you in some time because you got fired, that doesn't make you a missing person. You are obviously trying to push a certain agenda here ("Oh, look China disappeared someone again"), and reading your profile pretty much confirmed it. I urge you to practice restraint. Instead of liberally reading BBC articles that amount to "We don't have a clear window into Chinese internal politics" and twisting into "The former MFA is a MISSING PERSON!!!", wait. Do not make grand conclusions and try to pass them off as fact. That is for your Twitter, not an encyclopedia. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 13:22, 28 July 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	Come on my friend. It wasn't on my part. Beefman seem to think he owned the page and article, and, frankly, looking over his edits on the article, he appears to have a rather strong POV. I was trying to make a point with him. Given that he's been blocked for a few hours, I failed. :) ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 19:19, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
	:Hey dude. I'm not saying what you did is silly; however, I read over the from the IP and I don't see how it pertained to the conversation. It seemed like a non-sequitur. That doesn't mean it's OK for Beef to have removed it, but at least it means that he was right in saying that it didn't seem like it was part of the discussion. Regardless, I'm aware Beefy can be slightly difficult to deal with. I'd suggest you just take it directly to AE of ANI instead of edit warring with him. Best, ] (]) 19:38, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
	::Unless you're officially a Californian, the use of Dude is strictly forbidden. OK, Dude! LOL. Anyways, yes, the IP was writing some strange stuff, but he was using those comments to support some edits. I thought it was necessary to keep the conversation, in case Mr. IP (or Ms. IP) returned. Nevertheless, according to ], no one can refactor discussions except under some very narrow circumstances. Anyways....no big deal. Dude. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 19:42, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
	:::As I said, I'm not trying to say refactoring the comments wasn't a ] violation, I'm just saying, it seemed partially mitigated based on the IP's comments. If we were being generous to Beefy (which perhaps he doesn't deserve), you might have simply assumed he was trying to reorganize the talk page for better flow, and forgiven him the ] violation. Regardless, thanks for letting me know about "dude". I certainly wouldn't want anyone to mistake me for a Californian.
	:::My best to you..... sir, ] (]) 19:49, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
	::::I think you just insulted California. I think that's worthy of an ArbCom hearing. ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 19:59, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

			:Hello IP. Thanks for the comment.
	== ==
			:The addition you reverted wasn't actually something that I'd put in.
			:That said, I'm pretty sure "China disappeared someone again" is a fairly accurate description of what's happened. What's the alternative viewpoint? ] (]) 14:00, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
			::What is more likely is that Xi has been seeking to replace him for a few weeks, so he took Qin out of the public eye while he was looking for a replacement (who is now Wang Yi again).<br> Firing someone from the position of Minister of Foreign Affairs (or any important role) is not a split decision that gets made in one day. This happens in the West too. When someone is going to get fired, they're relieved of their duties for a couple weeks and then officially let go. For example, in the weeks leading up to the firing of Rex Tillerson and John Bolton, there were articles about them not being invited to meetings anymore.<br>
			::Now, as to why he hasn't been seen, that's just not really the content that Chinese news media does. They don't get former cabinet members to disgruntled analyses of the administration in which they served like they do in the West. ] (]) 16:48, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
			:::Thanks for the thoughts. If you're equating not getting invited to meetings to being disappeared, I'm not sure we're going to find much common ground. ] (]) 21:28, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

			== Introduction to contentious topics ==
	OK, I don't mean to be suspicious, but again, this is such an obscure (and discredited) theory and that this many editors show up to make the same changes, are these socks? It's the only explanation, unless there is a whole group of people in some bar somewhere who is complaining that Obama is suppressing evidence that could be used to solve the whole oil problem. Oh no. Am I onto something? ] <small><sup>] ]</sup></small> 18:27, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
			{{ivmbox \| image = Commons-emblem-notice.svg \|imagesize=50px \| bg = #E5F8FF \| text = You have recently edited a page related to '''articles about ], and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles''', a topic designated as ''']'''. This standard message is designed as an introduction to contentious topics and <em>does <strong>not</strong> imply that there are any issues with your editing</em>.
	:I think you're right to be suspicious, though it is hard to be sure with any certainty. All the editors with less than 100 contributions who are pushing this odd point of view are suspect. This includes TheJohns,Geologist, Scorpio & LeftCoast.
	:We could pursue an SPI, though frankly, these potential socks aren't really being very disruptive. I'm content to just keep my eye on the page. ] (]) 12:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

			A special set of rules applies to certain topic areas, which are referred to as ''contentious topics''. These are specially-designated topics that tend to attract more persistent disruptive editing than the rest of the project and have been designated as contentious topics by the Arbitration Committee. When editing a contentious topic, Misplaced Pages’s norms and policies are more strictly enforced, and Misplaced Pages administrators have special powers in order to reduce disruption to the project.
	== sock accusations distracting from merit of points made ==

			Within contentious topics, editors should edit <strong>carefully</strong> and <strong>constructively</strong>, refrain from disrupting the encyclopedia, and:
			*adhere to the purposes of Misplaced Pages;
			*comply with all applicable policies and guidelines;
			*follow editorial and behavioural best practice;
			*comply with any page restrictions in force within the area of conflict; and
			*refrain from gaming the system.

			<p>Editors are advised to err on the side of caution if unsure whether making a particular edit is consistent with these expectations. If you have any questions about contentious topics ''procedures'' you may ask them at the ] or you may learn more about this contentious topic ]. You may also choose to note which contentious topics you know about by using the {{tl\|Ctopics/aware}} template. </p>}}<!-- Derived from Template:Contentious topics/alert/first --> ] (]) 03:35, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
	Point taken.
	I will if, I decide to post further.
	In a perfect world people's comments should be judged based on the merits
	of the content of the comments, but I suppose that Misplaced Pages would be all the
	more chaotic if no one registered, because I do recognize the problem of agenda
	drive people hiding behind anonimity. Ironically a big part of my motivation
	to jump into this particular entry was the obviousness of (Registered User) Mindbunny's
	agenda (see my last comment that prompted you to scold me).
	But, as I learned yesterday, when I was falsely accused of being a sock of two
	other posters, posting anonymously just gave Mindbunny the opportunity to "respond"
	with an adhominen instead of addressing my points.
	So, you are right. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 22:10, 6 May 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:Hey, Thanks for considering registering. It makes things a little easier for everyone. As a side-note, I would call it a "suggestion" more than a "scold".
	:And a word of advice, if think if we ] and give ] the benefit of the doubt, I think his/her comments could probably be interpreted as legitimate content concerns, rather than "an agenda" or, worse, "antisemitism".
	:If you're going to expect people to give you the benefit of the doubt, be prepare to give it to others.......
	:Regardless, best of luck, and let me know when you've registered! Welcome to Misplaced Pages. Drop me a line if you need help/advice. ] (]) 22:37, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
	I've been watching on the sidelines for the last two days (sorry, haven't gotten around to registering yet), and
	I think that though "giving the benefit of the doubt" is a noble plan of action for civilized people, sometimes
	there becomes less and less "doubt" about what someones motivation is. And in that case, giving the benefit of the doubt
	crosses over that fine ill-defined line into giving benefit, when there is no doubt.
	For example, in this case, though neutral people focus on the brutal and sexual nature of the assault, people on the
	"Israeli side" want to highlight the fact that shouting "Israeli" and "Jew" made the mob intensify the attack, and people
	on the "anti-Israeli" side, not only want to purge any anti-Israeli nature of the description of this dispicable mob,
	but even others without an agenda are buying into the "it must be policies of Israel if anything, and not classic antisemitism".
	But the fact is, it wasn't just "Israeli". It was "Jew", that intensified the attack.
	Note how even in Talk comments, Mindbunny religiously refers to the question of including "Israeli" or not, whereas
	everyone else refers to what it is: including "Israeli, Jew" or not. Even in his Talk comments he wants to purge any
	notice of the existance of antisemitism.
	One general thought: I think that a(n ideal) good judge is one who a guilty person would fear and an innocent person would want,
	not one who, ANY defendant would want. I.E. one who goes too far in giving the benefit of the doubt.
	And one thought specific to this case:
	I think that anyone who feels that, for example, someone walking around Tarir Square in Cairo with a yarmulka on their
	head would very likely get the crap beaten out of him, for being a Jew, would probably be a little redeemed by the
	fact that 10 million people who would not have otherwise believed them would now, thanks to what tragically happened
	to Lara Logan, and they would be incredulous at the efforts of Mindbunny here. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:42, 9 May 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			== Deeply concerned about your disdain for BLP ==
	==RM alert==
	The move request at ] was closed, so we're now taking suggestions for an alternative. As you were involved in the previous discussion, I'd be grateful if you could contribute to the new one. Please lodge your support for a proposal, or make one of your own. ] (]) 04:22, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
	== Politicians arrested and charges with corruption ==
	You are invited for discussion at ] and also ]-] <sub><small>]</small></sub> 17:33, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

			I am deeply concerned from your comments at ] like that you appear to have a disdain for ] that is completely inappropriate for an editor of your experience. You really should know by now that BLP issues are serious. and it is '''not''' forum shopping to raised BLP issues at ] if you feel the response you are getting to BLP concerns is not adequate. That is a key purpose of having the noticeboard. I strongly suggest you re-read BLP and quickly learn the seriousness of BLP policy. If you continue to have such an utterly unacceptable disdain for BLP after that, then you need to seriously voluntarily refraining from editing considering all situations where BLP applies or at least direct article editing. If you fail to do that and instead continue to ignore BLP concerns or treat them as unimportant, don't be surprised if you receive a BLP topic ban. ] (]) 03:39, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
	==Talkback==
	{{wb\|Rjanag\|re your edit}}

			::{{reply to\|Nil Einne}} - Disdain for BLP? I have every dain for BLP. BLP is the only thing that protects us from trolls harming the reputation of innocent subjects w/ shoddy research and rumor mongering. BLP is about protecting people.
	== Warning -- Defamation, Personal Attack ==
			::Have you considered that the folks on the other side of this argument are using BLP as an excuse to harm people? Let me ask you this; if you got snatched by a foreign govnernment, would you want your Misplaced Pages article to note that? Or would you want it to use somekind of euphimism? ] (]) 11:47, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

			== Arbitration enforcement warning for BLP violations ==
	Please desist in making personal attacks on other editors, especially ones that are manifestly untrue, such as . For an editor who has been sanctioned for personal attacks and inappropriate editing in the P-I area, to seek to intimidate another editor who has never been so-sanctioned, for either abuse, of tendentious editing in that area, is perhaps not in keeping with the civility standards that we strive to follow. Please understand that this is a final warning.--] (]) 23:27, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
	:@Epee - In edit you suggested we should "endeavor to avoid what might be seen as POV editing.", when you must have known full well that you were actively seeking to engage in POV editing. Now you are giving me a "final warning" that I shouldn't "seek to intimidate another editor" when your very message is pretty obviously a miserable attempt to do just that.
	:Now I'm sorry you find it upsetting that folks aren't letting have your way with ], but don't come crying to me about it. If you really feel I've maligned you, you're invited to continue this discussion either ] or ]. Good evening to you sir. ] (]) 03:01, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

			Hi, NickCT. After reviewing the situation regarding {{la\|Fu Xiaotian}} and {{la\|Qin Gang}}, I am issuing you the following ] warning under the ] for the ], in my capacity as an uninvolved administrator and informed by comments of other experienced editors at ] and ]:{{tq2\|You are warned for repeatedly ] to two BLPs, without ] but rather based on ]. Further restoration of challenged content to BLPs may lead to a ] from BLPs related to the Chinese Communist Party or from BLPs in general, or other appropriate sanctions, without further warning.}} <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">[]]</sup> (she\|they\|xe) 02:58, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
	==Socks==
	Hi Nick, I see you flagged ] as a sock for blocked ] He is persisting in . Can we block as a sock? Best wishes <font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">] (])</font> 01:26, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
	:I ] who's dealt with this guy before. ] (]) 11:36, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
	::Actually, on reviewing the actual diff, I'd advise we don't summarily block. The ''"You are a dishonest liar. "'' is probably worthy of a ]. ] (]) 11:44, 7 July 2011 (UTC)
	:::Ah. I didn't know if socks were automatically blocked. That was my question. Thanks for the info. Best wishes <font style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">] (])</font> 13:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

			:{{reply to\|Tamzin}} - Thanks for the input and apologies on a delayed response. Obviously this converastion is a little stale now, but for the record;
			:What's "sourced" is that the Chinese foreign minister fell out of favor with the CCP and was erased () (some use the term "purged" (]) after rumors of an affair with Fu, who has also gone missing ()().
			:My "interpretation" as you've called it, seems to be that Fu and Qin's disappearance is a "forced disappearance".
			:I don't accept that calling folks who, after displeasing the CCP, "mysteriously vanish" (RS wording, not mine ()) "foricibly disappeared" is an "interpretation". I don't accept that that's an "interpretation", in the same sense that I don't accept that calling a person who has been decapitated, "dead", is an interpretation. It's an obvious consequence. Not an interpretation.
			: I respectfully suggest that anyone who thinks that a person who "mysteriously vanish" in China after displeasing the CCP has vanished voluntarily is probably extraordinarily niave to how things work in China.
			: Of course, niavity in this case is probably being blended with some CCP apologism and some BLP ultraorthodoxists, who can't accept that the fundamental rationale for BLP was to try to protect people. As we ought to try to protect people who have been "disappeared". ] (]) 15:20, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
			::That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. However, Misplaced Pages works based on ], and as far as I can tell not a single other person has agreed with your interpretation, across two talkpages and two noticeboard threads. ] consensus, particularly on a BLP, goes from a content issue to a conduct issue, and that's why I issued this warning. If you'd like to appeal the warning, you may follow the procedures at {{slink\|Misplaced Pages:Contentious_topics#Appeals_and_amendments}}. Absent a successful appeal of that warning, however, what I said above about potential sanctions stands. <span style="font-family:courier"> -- ]</span><sup class="nowrap">[]]</sup> <small>(she\|they\|xe)</small> 18:26, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
			:::I mean, the edit I was initially defending wasn't my own. So obviously someone agrees with me.
			:::The problem is that one of the editors involved forum shopped at the BLP noticeboard. As much as I like those guys, they are the sort that won't accept a person who was decapitated is also dead, unless you produce a source that explicitly uses the word "dead". ] (]) 00:01, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

			== Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment ==
	==Omnipotience Paradox==
	With all due respect. First, thou should not threaten fellow user (per Wiki rules). Second, apologies for earlier self-promo (honest mistake), but the answer is discussed in the Theosophical Society in America. If you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or it's unverified. Another thought: any theosophical (or philosophical) thought or concept that's not repeating of the old concepts or thoughts is new. There's no clear guidline about "notability", so you might think it's not notable, and I think it is. It's my word against yours - so why you think you're entitled to win (or better yet block another person?). I'm not going to engage in an edit war, hoping you will undo your own editing, feel free to include the reference to Theosophical Society.
	] (]) 20:15, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
	:Hey ],
	:I wasn't threatening you. You looked new, so I was informing you of the rules.
	:If the Theosophical Society in America really is a ] than you may have an argument for this being ]. You are obliged to ] material you are adding so that others can ] the material is in fact notable. Could you provide me with a link to the material in question? ] (]) 20:24, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
	:: There's an article on the society right here, it's more than a 100 years old, I guess that counts as reliable... http://en.wikipedia.org/Theosophical_Society As for links - the discussion transcripts are not published on the website. There were no publications by the society on this subject. But since it's one of these questions that can't be proved, yet offering a logical solution to the Paradox, and not offensive by any means, it can be published. I guess it will be fair to put an extra paragraph "The theosophical view", or something like that...
	] (]) 22:16, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
	:::Sorry. ] is sorta a core WP principle. If it can't be verified, it can't go up, regardless of how inoffensive it may be. ] (]) 22:42, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

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	== She admitted she lied ==

			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	The RS says that she "admitted she lied": ''"The housekeeper admitted to prosecutors that she had lied about what happened after the encounter on the 28th floor of the hotel, the Sofitel New York."''

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	You changed that to "changed her account of the events".

			== Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment ==
	There is a big difference here. "Admitted she lied" is a deliberate distortion of the truth. "Changed her account of events" could mean she accidentally misspoke.

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	I understand seeking neutrality, but in this case you seem to think that you know better than a RS.

			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	How can you justify making this change? Why are you seeking to deliberately tone down what is said in a RS?

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	-- ] (]) 20:49, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	: To add to that, as a rule, we should always seek to be more precise, rather than less precise, shouldn't we? -- ] (]) 21:05, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

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	::If you want to revert back to RS's language that's fine with me. I was really simply approaching from a perspective of better "flow". It seems to be better to say "She changed her account. Her first account was A. Her second was B.", rather than "She lied. Her first account was A. Her second was B.".
	::I don't think think there's really that much difference.... ] (]) 21:14, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	:::@ Bob drobbs (apologies to Nick if this is not courteous, Bob should have taken it to the Talk page). You do need to indicate in your copy that you are quoting a source and not making a value judgement of your own. I'll address that directly. ] (]) 00:33, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

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	== Sock? ==

			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	Hi Nick. Thanks for trying to keep me up to date on the person I thought might be a sock. My suspicions where only based on this person suddenly cropping up with a, seemingly, good familiarity re. Wiki procedures. I have to leave the more clever forensics to you guys. All the best ] ] 03:11, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

	: Oh, now I'm amused. To Prunesqualer, apparently your own behavior was so bad that you were banned for weeks for editing any articles related to Israel/Palestine, and now the two of you are ganging up and trying to defame me?!? Sorry, but I'm just me. And my goal here is to keep things neutral, informative, and balanced. So, good luck to you. And out of curiosity, what is your goal here? -- ] (]) 06:51, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
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	::@] - We're actually talking about a different sock here. Not you. ] (]) 13:28, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

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			== inappropriate ==

			] (]) 18:22, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
			:Agreed - please bring more ] to your edits on ] and posts on the ] ] (]) 18:27, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
			::There ain't nothing wrong with being interested in conspiracy theories. I'm interested in them myself. Is there a reason you guys aren't comfortable with your interests? ] (]) 18:32, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
			:::so then you doubled-down and continued to misuse an article Talk page for a wholly irrelevant purpose. do you think you're clever and nobody notices? ] (]) 00:39, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
			::::I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. ] (]) 13:00, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
			:::::You keep harassing editors and making fun of them as conspiracy theorists instead of discussing the edits. ] (]) 17:18, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
			::::::You're pursuing me to my talkpage, so don't accuse me of harrassing anyone.
			::::::To be clear, there's nothing fun or funny about pushing ] theories on WP. It makes the project look silly. ] (]) 17:33, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

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			== I cackled ==

			Your infobox sidebar is great, and pulled off a class of joke I thought was too inherently corny to be feasible on here. (To be clear, that's not derision of any particular element or the whole. The presentation is just funny as well as enlightening. It's bespoke!) <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 18:56, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

			:Well, I'm glad it entertained someone. It strikes me that pretty much any POV or piece of biographical trivia can easily be communicated with an infobox. ] (]) 19:12, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
			::Very rarely do people's bios on the internet—even intelligent people with interesting things to say about such things—make me think "oh, I want to understand the way this person thinks about politics". <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F">]<span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span>]</span> 19:15, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
			:::For the next couple weeks my thinking about politics mostly involves wondering how quickly it will end humanity. Stay safe my friend. ] (]) 20:43, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

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Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Misplaced Pages talk:Naming conventions (conflicts and protests) on a "Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Signature: Scott Adams RfC

You did not sign your statement for the Scott Adams RfC. It is required, so please do so. You can see Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Biographies for examples in other RfC's. Also, another editor corrected your spelling of "controversial" in the statement, which you spelled "contraversial". Thank you. Stoarm (talk) 16:59, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

@Stoarm: - Thanks for the suggestion and the spelling note. I guess I've gotta fess to the typo, as it's a little hard to controdict.

I think the RfC is OK as the bot seemed to list it correctly despite my not signing. NickCT (talk) 01:19, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Your signature is required. The only reason the bot listed it is because you used fictitious signatures as examples in the part that outlines how responses are to be formatted. Are you going to sign the statement? Stoarm (talk) 13:33, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Required by? I'll consider signing it. I'm not sure exactly what the value would be. Is your concern that RfC isn't neutrally worded or something? NickCT (talk) 13:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what the value is. It's required. I'm not sure why you're making such a basic issue so difficult. You are a long-time editor and I'm sure know when signatures are and are not required. I provided WP:SIG, which I'd have to assume you're very familiar with already. Are you claiming some sort of exemption from this requirement? It's your RfC and so you should obviously sign it, just as all other editors do in their RfCs. Are you going to sign it? Stoarm (talk) 14:13, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

I am long time editor. I've done dozen of RfCs. Signed few of them. This is first time anyone has complained. Seems like a you thing. NickCT (talk) 14:44, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

No, it's a requirement thing. And apparently the administrator who signed it for you agrees. If you've done dozens of them but have only signed a few of them, that's wrong. You should sign all of them, just like it's done in all the other RfCs. Your uncivil and uncooperative behavior over such a basic issue is disappointing. It's a shame that it took an administrator to correct what you refused to do. Yes, you're a long time editor; so you should know better and do better. Stoarm (talk) 14:57, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

When did I refuse to do it? I said I was considering it. You're either intentionally mischaracterizing or having trouble reading.

RedRose seemed to think it's important for neutrality. Since I've asked you whether you felt the RfC was neutral and you didn't respond, I can only assume you disagree. So again, what do you feel the benefit is?

You don't think it's a little goofy that you were trying to make a point about how important it was to sign, when it was in fact, already signed? If it was really that important, wouldn't you have recognized? NickCT (talk) 16:44, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Update: The issue is now moot. I just noticed that an administrator appropriately signed for you since you failed to do so. You can also see that their edit summary says you violated WP:RFCNEUTRAL ~~by making yours the first !vote~~. In the future, I hope you will follow the requirement to sign any RfCs that you initiate. I was trying to be nice by asking you (multiple times) to please sign it, rather than making it a noticeboard issue for an admin to handle. Stoarm (talk) 14:26, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

I see that. Acutally I think the sig was in the wrong place. @Redrose64: - For the record, I try to make a really clear distinction between the neutrally phrased RfC and my non-neutral position on the RfC by separating them into different sections.

Out of curiousity, does anyone feel like I actually phrased this RfC non-neutrally, or are we arguing about angels on the head of a pin? If you feel like I was being non-neutral in posing the question, I'm happy to consider that. NickCT (talk) 14:52, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

It's nothing to do with sections. WP:RFCNEUTRAL says Legobot will copy the markup of your statement (from the end of the {{rfc}} tag through the first timestamp) to the list of active RfCs. Note that this says timestamp, not signature, and in this edit we find that it copied up to and including the "13:01, 25 September 2050 (UTC)", even though it is clearly a bogus timestamp and the preceding signature used a fake username. Quite apart from the fact that bogus timestamps can cause problems for Legobot further down the line, a major problem is that having the line beginning "Support Option A" included in the RfC listings has given the impression that a real opinion was part of the RfC statement, which goes against Keep the RfC statement (and heading) neutrally worded. My edit placed a real signature and a correct timestamp (copied from further down the page) before those non-neutral items, with this effect; but my effort was nullified by this edit, with this effect.

In making this edit, Floquenbeam (talk · contribs) has not helped matters by dropping their own sig into the middle of the statement, with this effect. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:11, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

@Redrose64: - Mea culpa. I messed up the bot. I hope we can all appreciate the "fake" usernames/timestamps were not an attempt to decieve anyone. I've tried to correct it. NickCT (talk) 00:52, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

April 2023

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Stoarm (talk) 20:39, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Hey guys. This conversation seemed to disappear before I got a chance to see it, so I'm responding here.

Geez..... I try to tell someone they're good at something and this is what I get.

@Ad Orientem: - I'm not sure if you want to come down from the ivory tower that is ANI, but this debate could be quickly resolved by simply closing Talk:Scott_Adams#RfC_:_Use_"racist"_in_Wikipedia's_voice?. A certain editor seems to be having trouble letting go of language that this RfC has shown is not right. NickCT (talk) 13:57, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

I've posted a link to the RfC at BLPN. If the general trajectory of the discussion doesn't change over the next few days, I will consider closing it. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:34, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

On a side note... Geez..... I try to tell someone they're good at something and this is what I get.

Tread carefully with the snark. My note at ANI was intended as a friendly word of caution. But being blunt, some of your past commentary has had an abrasive edge to it that is not conducive to cordial debate. I would strongly prefer not to have to address this subject again. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:42, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't start the fires Ad. And I certainly don't go whining about other's disruptive behaviors.

I appreciate your helping with the RfC, b/c many others wouldn't have bothered, but you are pandering to bad behavior. NickCT (talk) 19:47, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

If you have specific concerns about other editors, you are free to raise those in the appropriate forum. The subject here are your biting comments directed at/about another editor. And they are to stop. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:52, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm not going to raise them. I'm going to fix them. As I sought to end edit warring w/ this RfC. Let's finish up the RfC. We can eliminate the language I sought to eliminate a month ago and we can end the wikidrama. NickCT (talk) 20:00, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Please stop the slow edit war at Scott Adams

It's being discussed in the RFC right now, so please stop edit warring and let it sit at the WP:WRONGVERSION until it's closed. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:19, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish: - Fine. I do think there's some level of perversity in us all looking at something, all agreeing it's wrong, then saying "let it be". If it's wrong, why not fix it? NickCT (talk) 17:35, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Because someone reverted what you saw as the fix. No reason to go back and forth with the edit while there is an ongoing discussion. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:31, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

The RfC is basically down to choice between the current language and two possible alternatives. No one, not even its initial proponent, supports the current language. Beyond making a point, why not just change it now? NickCT (talk) 18:45, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Because someone objected, and edit warring isn't the way to handle it. As it's already being discussed it can be left at the WP:WRONGVERSION until a consensus emerges. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:56, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

I guess we can allow a minority opinion to filibuster the process. NickCT (talk) 19:02, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Edit warring is a no no. It's not complicated. There are a few exceptions (vandalism, copyright violations and serious BLP stuff) but that's it. It doesn't matter if you like them or not. Themz the rules until they aren't. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:34, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

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Be more responsible

I've reverted your edit on Qin Gang that labels him as a "missing person." If Western news outlets have not seen you in some time because you got fired, that doesn't make you a missing person. You are obviously trying to push a certain agenda here ("Oh, look China disappeared someone again"), and reading your profile pretty much confirmed it. I urge you to practice restraint. Instead of liberally reading BBC articles that amount to "We don't have a clear window into Chinese internal politics" and twisting into "The former MFA is a MISSING PERSON!!!", wait. Do not make grand conclusions and try to pass them off as fact. That is for your Twitter, not an encyclopedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:AB88:C86:4E00:4517:2B97:E05D:DEA5 (talk) 13:22, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello IP. Thanks for the comment.

The addition you reverted wasn't actually something that I'd put in.

That said, I'm pretty sure "China disappeared someone again" is a fairly accurate description of what's happened. What's the alternative viewpoint? NickCT (talk) 14:00, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

What is more likely is that Xi has been seeking to replace him for a few weeks, so he took Qin out of the public eye while he was looking for a replacement (who is now Wang Yi again).
Firing someone from the position of Minister of Foreign Affairs (or any important role) is not a split decision that gets made in one day. This happens in the West too. When someone is going to get fired, they're relieved of their duties for a couple weeks and then officially let go. For example, in the weeks leading up to the firing of Rex Tillerson and John Bolton, there were articles about them not being invited to meetings anymore.

Now, as to why he hasn't been seen, that's just not really the content that Chinese news media does. They don't get former cabinet members to disgruntled analyses of the administration in which they served like they do in the West. 2A02:AB88:C86:4E00:4517:2B97:E05D:DEA5 (talk) 16:48, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the thoughts. If you're equating not getting invited to meetings to being disappeared, I'm not sure we're going to find much common ground. NickCT (talk) 21:28, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

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Deeply concerned about your disdain for BLP

I am deeply concerned from your comments at Talk:Fu Xiaotian like that you appear to have a disdain for WP:BLP that is completely inappropriate for an editor of your experience. You really should know by now that BLP issues are serious. and it is not forum shopping to raised BLP issues at WP:BLP/N if you feel the response you are getting to BLP concerns is not adequate. That is a key purpose of having the noticeboard. I strongly suggest you re-read BLP and quickly learn the seriousness of BLP policy. If you continue to have such an utterly unacceptable disdain for BLP after that, then you need to seriously voluntarily refraining from editing considering all situations where BLP applies or at least direct article editing. If you fail to do that and instead continue to ignore BLP concerns or treat them as unimportant, don't be surprised if you receive a BLP topic ban. Nil Einne (talk) 03:39, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

@Nil Einne: - Disdain for BLP? I have every dain for BLP. BLP is the only thing that protects us from trolls harming the reputation of innocent subjects w/ shoddy research and rumor mongering. BLP is about protecting people.

Have you considered that the folks on the other side of this argument are using BLP as an excuse to harm people? Let me ask you this; if you got snatched by a foreign govnernment, would you want your Misplaced Pages article to note that? Or would you want it to use somekind of euphimism? NickCT (talk) 11:47, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement warning for BLP violations

You are warned for repeatedly restoring challenged content to two BLPs, without support from reliable sources but rather based on your own interpretation. Further restoration of challenged content to BLPs may lead to a topic ban from BLPs related to the Chinese Communist Party or from BLPs in general, or other appropriate sanctions, without further warning.

-- Tamzin (she|they|xe) 02:58, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

@Tamzin: - Thanks for the input and apologies on a delayed response. Obviously this converastion is a little stale now, but for the record;

What's "sourced" is that the Chinese foreign minister fell out of favor with the CCP and was erased (NYT) (some use the term "purged" (Gaurdian]) after rumors of an affair with Fu, who has also gone missing (Quartz)(Sidney Morning Herald).

My "interpretation" as you've called it, seems to be that Fu and Qin's disappearance is a "forced disappearance".

I don't accept that calling folks who, after displeasing the CCP, "mysteriously vanish" (RS wording, not mine (USA Today)) "foricibly disappeared" is an "interpretation". I don't accept that that's an "interpretation", in the same sense that I don't accept that calling a person who has been decapitated, "dead", is an interpretation. It's an obvious consequence. Not an interpretation.

I respectfully suggest that anyone who thinks that a person who "mysteriously vanish" in China after displeasing the CCP has vanished voluntarily is probably extraordinarily niave to how things work in China.

Of course, niavity in this case is probably being blended with some CCP apologism and some BLP ultraorthodoxists, who can't accept that the fundamental rationale for BLP was to try to protect people. As we ought to try to protect people who have been "disappeared". NickCT (talk) 15:20, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. However, Misplaced Pages works based on consensus, and as far as I can tell not a single other person has agreed with your interpretation, across two talkpages and two noticeboard threads. Failure to heed consensus, particularly on a BLP, goes from a content issue to a conduct issue, and that's why I issued this warning. If you'd like to appeal the warning, you may follow the procedures at Misplaced Pages:Contentious topics § Appeals and amendments. Absent a successful appeal of that warning, however, what I said above about potential sanctions stands. -- Tamzin (she|they|xe) 18:26, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

I mean, the edit I was initially defending wasn't my own. So obviously someone agrees with me.

The problem is that one of the editors involved forum shopped at the BLP noticeboard. As much as I like those guys, they are the sort that won't accept a person who was decapitated is also dead, unless you produce a source that explicitly uses the word "dead". NickCT (talk) 00:01, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

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inappropriate

soibangla (talk) 18:22, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Agreed - please bring more WP:Civility to your edits on Project 2025 and posts on the talk page Superb Owl (talk) 18:27, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

There ain't nothing wrong with being interested in conspiracy theories. I'm interested in them myself. Is there a reason you guys aren't comfortable with your interests? NickCT (talk) 18:32, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

so then you doubled-down and continued to misuse an article Talk page for a wholly irrelevant purpose. do you think you're clever and nobody notices? soibangla (talk) 00:39, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. NickCT (talk) 13:00, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

You keep harassing editors and making fun of them as conspiracy theorists instead of discussing the edits. Superb Owl (talk) 17:18, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

You're pursuing me to my talkpage, so don't accuse me of harrassing anyone.

To be clear, there's nothing fun or funny about pushing WP:FRINGE theories on WP. It makes the project look silly. NickCT (talk) 17:33, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:Logo for bluebird bio.png

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Thanks for uploading File:Logo for bluebird bio.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see our policy for non-free media).

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Thank you bot! It looks like someone uploaded a different version of this logo. I don't oppose deleting the old one. NickCT (talk) 13:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I cackled

Your infobox sidebar is great, and pulled off a class of joke I thought was too inherently corny to be feasible on here. (To be clear, that's not derision of any particular element or the whole. The presentation is just funny as well as enlightening. It's bespoke!) Remsense ‥ 论 18:56, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Well, I'm glad it entertained someone. It strikes me that pretty much any POV or piece of biographical trivia can easily be communicated with an infobox. NickCT (talk) 19:12, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Very rarely do people's bios on the internet—even intelligent people with interesting things to say about such things—make me think "oh, I want to understand the way this person thinks about politics". Remsense ‥ 论 19:15, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

For the next couple weeks my thinking about politics mostly involves wondering how quickly it will end humanity. Stay safe my friend. NickCT (talk) 20:43, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

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