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== Notation for Percentile Dice == == fair and less fair ==

How about splitting the "Rarer" table into isohedral (including "long" dice) and other? ] (]) 05:30, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

:I'm curious how that would look. ] (]) 13:07, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
::Most of the non-isohedral dice have the word "truncated" in the table. All ]s, all ]s and ], and (effectively) all long dice are isohedral. ] (]) 05:28, 15 August 2024 (UTC)


== Die or Dice ==
I've never seen the notation for percentile dice shown as 1d100 or 1d%. It's always d100 or d%, since gamers never talk about the sum of more than one random roll of 100. ] (]) 14:47, 4 January 2011 (UTC)


For articles like ], ], ] and many others, the article title is singular, though several of the objects are usually used together.
I remember I have been asked to roll 2d100 in a homebrew system, and it is neither impossible nor unheard of. Just like 1d1000 would be 1d‰. It is indeed uncommon, but for the sake of consistency and clarity it should be noted as such. "D100" refers to the dice itself, not a specific "roll" to be made. But on a related note, most game systems indicate single die rolls as "1d#", not "d#", such as D&D's weapon damage chart (1d6, 1d8, not d6 and d8) when it comes to most common die rolls, thus I do not see why rolls of hundred-sided die should stand any different. ] (]) 10:05, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


For dice, the singular can be ''die'' or ''dice'' and the plural is ''dice''. Thus, the title ] could be either, but the start of the article makes it seem to be plural:
== pairing of numbers on D10 ==
:'''''Dice''' (sg.: '''die''' or '''dice''') are small, throwable objects ...''
(my point being: this only makes sense if the first word is understood as plural).
This is kind of odd, I think. Would this be better?
:''A '''die''' (sg. die or '''dice''', pl. '''dice''') is a small, throwable object ...
Logically, one might say this should go with renaming the article ], but I wouldn't support renaming.
Also, given title ], this would be more logical:
:''A '''dice''' (sg. dice or '''die''', pl. '''dice''') is a small, throwable object ...
but I actually prefer my first version. Or perhaps this:
:''A '''die''' (sg. also '''dice''', pl. '''dice''') is a small, throwable object ...
Thoughts? ] (]) 08:03, 30 August 2024 (UTC)


:I support: A '''dice''' ({{singular}} dice or ''' die'''; {{plural form}} dice) is a small, throwable object... <span style="font-family:cursive;color:DarkBlue;cursor:help"><span>]</span><sup>(])</sup></span> 08:29, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
: ''The sum of the numbers on opposite faces is '''usually 9 (counting zero as itself) or''' 11 (counting zero as 10).''
::That would be logical, yes!
::Arguably, with that lead, it would be odd that we throughout the article use the singular '''die''', and I don't think we should change that, which is why I prefer "A die (...) is".
::(We use "die" 73 times and "dice" 129 times, and though I haven't checked all 129 instances, it seems that when we use "dice" it is either plural or dice as a concept, where using the plural form is at least possible.) ] (]) 10:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
:::Only idiots use dice as a singular.--] (]) (]) 18:45, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
::::Why would you want to be so rude? Both forms are correct. ] (]) 16:43, 1 November 2024 (UTC)


== Where, if at all, to put basic stat info for nDs dice ==
The bold phrase was recently added, then reverted with this note:
: ''No need for the extra numbers; except for generating percentiles, the zero face is always read as "10")''


A while back, related to some research I was doing, I needed to gather some basic info about the results you get when rolling nDs+c and nDs-c dice -- It discussed the minimum value, maximum value, and most likely value(s) you get for particular nm s and c, including when the adjusted rolls would result in a negative value. This info has been useful for my fellow gamers, and I think it would be of interest to other d20 players, as well as those interested in dice probability, and perhaps probability more generally. As far as I was able to discover, this info is not grouped together in one place on the Web -- or, if it is, I could not find after a lot of googling.
The insertion was poorly phrased, but the removal may have missed the point. If opposite faces add to a common sum, they must be either 1+10, 2+9, 3+8, 4+7, 5+6 '''''or''''' 0+9, 1+8, 2+7, 3+6, 4+5. Making (1)0 ambiguous does not sidestep the choice between these two arrangements.


I've been told by a knowledgeable editor that such info is too detailed for the Dice page. Dice Notation was suggested as a location for it, but that page is about (several different) dice notations, and doesn't really get into the probability behavior of info related to them (sensible; the page is about notation, not stats). It also seems inappropriate to place this info on its own page; seems too detailed for that. So, I'd like the community's input: Is there an appropriate page for this info? Should it be on a new page after all? Or it is just too esoteric to be in Misplaced Pages?
I'm not a gamer, so I don't know what's common; but I do own a D10, and it is numbered 0..9, with the second arrangement of pairings. I can thus say that at least one D10 exists which does not fit the shorter description. —] (]) 05:28, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
:Huh. I just looked at the D10s I have handy, and they are arranged in the 0+9 format you state. My apologies; I'll self-revert. ] (]) 06:04, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
:: Groovy. Now, does anyone reading this have one with the other arrangement? —] (]) 20:58, 12 April 2011 (UTC)


Many thanks for your advice! ] (]) 23:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
== format ==


== Probability theory ==
I found this:
:{| border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"
|-
|<math>F_{6,2}(6)\,</math>
|<math>=\sum_n {F_{6,1}(n) F_{6,1}(6 - n)}\,</math>
|-
|
|<math>=F_{6,1}(1) F_{6,1}(5) + F_{6,1}(2) F_{6,1}(4) + \ldots + F_{6,1}(5) F_{6,1}(1)\,</math>
|-
|
|<math>=5\cdot\frac{1}{6}\cdot\frac{1}{6}=\frac{5}{36}\approx0.14\,</math>
|}
I changed it to this:
: <math>
\begin{align}
F_{6,2}(6) & =\sum_n {F_{6,1}(n) F_{6,1}(6 - n)} \\
& =F_{6,1}(1) F_{6,1}(5) + F_{6,1}(2) F_{6,1}(4) + \cdots + F_{6,1}(5) F_{6,1}(1) \\
& = 5\cdot\frac{1}{6}\cdot\frac{1}{6}=\frac{5}{36}\approx0.14
\end{align}
</math>
Why would anyone use the former format? The ''F''<sub>6,2</sub>(6) is set lower than what comes after it on the same line and crowds against the "="; the first two lines are too close together; the code is a complicated mixture of html tables and TeX. Those visual problems don't happen in the latter format and there's no mixing of html with TeX. And the latter format is standard.


Obviously, ] is not something we should get into detalis about in this article. However, I think one, reading this article, should be no more than a click or two away from getting info about the relevant probability theory when throwing e.g. two identical dice, or two differently coloured dice, simultaneously. Perhaps it can be fixed by adding an appropriate link in the section ], but I'm not sure how, or what to link. Ideas? ] (]) 12:07, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
== Ongoing copy edit ==


The ongoing edits are removing load of material. When this happens simultaneously with restructuring and other changes, it's hard to see what goes out. I'd like to ask the editor to paste the removed material to the talk page so we all can consider what to do with this material.--] (]) 08:00, 10 July 2011 (UTC) :I added a brief paragraph to the "Use" section, linking to probability theory. I agree, it should be somewhere in the article, and this looked like a good spot to me. ] (]) 06:29, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
:You might want to ask ] directly - no idea if they are still watching this page. ] (]) 14:11, 10 July 2011 (UTC) ::Thanks! ] (]) 08:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

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fair and less fair

How about splitting the "Rarer" table into isohedral (including "long" dice) and other? —Tamfang (talk) 05:30, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm curious how that would look. BOZ (talk) 13:07, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
Most of the non-isohedral dice have the word "truncated" in the table. All Catalan solids, all bipyramids and trapezohedra, and (effectively) all long dice are isohedral. —Tamfang (talk) 05:28, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Die or Dice

For articles like Token, Chess piece, Coin and many others, the article title is singular, though several of the objects are usually used together.

For dice, the singular can be die or dice and the plural is dice. Thus, the title Dice could be either, but the start of the article makes it seem to be plural:

Dice (sg.: die or dice) are small, throwable objects ...

(my point being: this only makes sense if the first word is understood as plural). This is kind of odd, I think. Would this be better?

A die (sg. die or dice, pl. dice) is a small, throwable object ...

Logically, one might say this should go with renaming the article Die, but I wouldn't support renaming. Also, given title Dice, this would be more logical:

A dice (sg. dice or die, pl. dice) is a small, throwable object ...

but I actually prefer my first version. Or perhaps this:

A die (sg. also dice, pl. dice) is a small, throwable object ...

Thoughts? (talk) 08:03, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

I support: A dice (sg. dice or die; pl. dice) is a small, throwable object... Alexeyevitch 08:29, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
That would be logical, yes!
Arguably, with that lead, it would be odd that we throughout the article use the singular die, and I don't think we should change that, which is why I prefer "A die (...) is".
(We use "die" 73 times and "dice" 129 times, and though I haven't checked all 129 instances, it seems that when we use "dice" it is either plural or dice as a concept, where using the plural form is at least possible.) (talk) 10:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
Only idiots use dice as a singular.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 18:45, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
Why would you want to be so rude? Both forms are correct. (talk) 16:43, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Where, if at all, to put basic stat info for nDs dice

A while back, related to some research I was doing, I needed to gather some basic info about the results you get when rolling nDs+c and nDs-c dice -- It discussed the minimum value, maximum value, and most likely value(s) you get for particular nm s and c, including when the adjusted rolls would result in a negative value. This info has been useful for my fellow gamers, and I think it would be of interest to other d20 players, as well as those interested in dice probability, and perhaps probability more generally. As far as I was able to discover, this info is not grouped together in one place on the Web -- or, if it is, I could not find after a lot of googling.

I've been told by a knowledgeable editor that such info is too detailed for the Dice page. Dice Notation was suggested as a location for it, but that page is about (several different) dice notations, and doesn't really get into the probability behavior of info related to them (sensible; the page is about notation, not stats). It also seems inappropriate to place this info on its own page; seems too detailed for that. So, I'd like the community's input: Is there an appropriate page for this info? Should it be on a new page after all? Or it is just too esoteric to be in Misplaced Pages?

Many thanks for your advice! Eclectucator (talk) 23:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Probability theory

Obviously, probability theory is not something we should get into detalis about in this article. However, I think one, reading this article, should be no more than a click or two away from getting info about the relevant probability theory when throwing e.g. two identical dice, or two differently coloured dice, simultaneously. Perhaps it can be fixed by adding an appropriate link in the section Dice#Use, but I'm not sure how, or what to link. Ideas? (talk) 12:07, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

I added a brief paragraph to the "Use" section, linking to probability theory. I agree, it should be somewhere in the article, and this looked like a good spot to me. Fieari (talk) 06:29, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
Thanks! (talk) 08:20, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
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