Talk:Paraguayan War: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 01:17, 23 January 2012 editMarshalN20 (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers15,094 editsm moved Talk:Paraguayan War to Talk:War of the Triple Alliance over redirect: as explained in talk page, the majority of RS use the name "War of the Triple Alliance," effectively eliminating the original premise which led to the name change to "p...← Previous edit		Latest revision as of 00:09, 14 September 2024 edit undoND746392 (talk \| contribs)11 edits Update Modern Latin America assignment detailsTag: dashboard.wikiedu.org [2.3]
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	== Requested move ==

	<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
	:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

	The result of the move request was: '''all moved'''. I also moved ] <small>(non-admin closure)</small>. ] (]) 17:50, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

	----


	* ] → ]
	* ] → ]
	* ] → ]
	– Straight to the point: the name "''Paraguayan War''" (16,100 results ) is far more used in English written sources than "''War of the Triple Alliance''" (6,080 results ). ] (]) 15:49, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

	*'''Support''' as nominator. --] (]) 16:02, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
	*'''Support'''. ~16,000 vs. 6,000 hits on ]; 1,700 vs. 1,000 on ]. ]<sup>]</sup> 20:26, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
	*'''Oppose''', I've never heard this term before, despite studying the history of the period. ] (]) 22:48, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
	:If you never heard then you certainly never studied the history of the period. Countless are the books with the name itself in their titles (, , , , etc...). --] (]) 23:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
	*'''Support'''. Seems to be a simple case of choosing the more common name of two reasonable alternatives. ] <sup>]</sup> 23:43, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
	*'''Support''', mainly on account of the ambiguity of ]. All of these various ''Triple Alliances'' were engaged in a war with someone! ] (]) 14:53, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
	*'''Support'''.--] ]/] 15:14, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
	:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a ]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->

	== War of the Triple Alliance v Paraguayan War ==

	I'm surprised the title has been changed to fit a mainly Brazilian POV name.
	In any case, the google hits I get for "Paraguayan War" are , whereas the "War of the Triple Alliance" receives almost 4x the amount of hits . Based on this evidence, the page should be returned to its former NPOV and most common English title of "War of the Triple Alliance". Best regards.--] \| ] 23:38, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

	I quick google search show 1.500.000 results for "War of the triple Alliance", while 1.200.000 for Paraguayan War. Paraguay also had a war against Bolivia (The Chaco War). How is that war less "paraguayan" than the previous war. That name was and is mainly used by Brazil, translations of their material retain the naming, everywhere else is either "The War of the Triple Alliance" or "The War against the Triple Alliance". <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 09:52, 3 November 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

	The following excerpt should be removed:
	"This industrial and military growth required some contact with the international market, but Paraguay is and was a landlocked country. Its ports were river ports, and Paraguayan and other ships had to travel down the Río Paraguay and the Río Paraná to reach the estuary of the Río de la Plata (shared by Argentina and Uruguay) and the Atlantic Ocean. President Solano López conceived of a project to obtain ports on the Atlantic Ocean: he probably intended to create a "Greater Paraguay" by capturing a slice of Brazilian territory that would link Paraguay to the Atlantic coast."

	The reference "Brandon Valeriano, "A Classification of Interstate War: Typologies and Rivalry." Article based on talk given March 17–20, 2004 to the International Studies Association in Montreal. File available at , accessed December 30, 2005." is broken.

			== Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2024 - Paraguayan army strength ==
	A quick google search return this: http://tigger.uic.edu/~bvaler/ClassificationWar%20SPSA.doc

			{{edit semi-protected\|Paraguayan War\|answered=yes}}
	Where this paragraph reads: " Likewise, the Lopez War involved intervention in a civil war by the different parties, but at the same time Langer (1972: 848) recognizes that Francisco Solano Lopez’s father and previous President of Paraguay “has asserted Paraguayan territorial claims against Argentina and Brazil…” and that his son “desired territory and perhaps envisaged a Greater Paraguay.” Langer (1972: 848) concludes that,“The ambitions of Lopez, Brazilian intervention in Uruguay”… and unsettled territorial claims …brought about the war.” "
			The Paraguayan army strength is wrong. The 300,000 mentioned in the article should be the total Paraguayan death toll.
			The mentioned source supports my claim and probably got misread.

			https://web.archive.org/web/20180412081700/http://remilitari.com/guias/victimario5.htm ] (]) 17:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
	The author bibliography says : Langer, William L. 1980. An Encyclopedia of World History, 5th ed. Boston: Houghton Mifflin.
			:] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 11:39, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

			== Everyone in the talk section agrees that War of the Triple Alliance is the common english name ==
	The author uses three separate statements by Langer to draw a conclusion. The second statement is both an assertion "he wanted territory" and speculation "perhaps envisaged a Greater Paraguay" by Langer, the third asserts that Lopez ambitions along with Brazilian intervention started the whole mess. Lopez "ambitions" now including un-proven speculation.

			And there's evidence the prior move was brigaded by other languages. Paraguayan War is the COMMON in Brazil, not in English which goes with the Argentinian and Uraguayan name.
	Furthermore the Sixth Edition of" Langer, William L. An Encyclopedia of World History, BOSTON: HOUGHTON MIFFLIN COMPANY, 2001 NEW YORK: BARTLEBY.COM, 2002
	has no mention of this. But it says: "López relaxed Dr. Francia's isolationism, hiring foreign technicians, engineers, and artisans to build up his military. But the neighboring countries still refused to recognize Paraguay's independence. Rosas, the Argentine dictator, closed the Paraná River to vessels bound to Asunción. In 1849, tensions intensified, and López prepared for war. Brazil and Uruguay, both in conflict with Rosas, recognized Paraguay. After Rosas's fall, the Argentine Confederation recognized Paraguay's independence and its right to free navigation (1852)."

			War's having different names in regions is pretty common. At the time it happened Britain and Belgium called WW1 'The Great War', France 'The World War', and US 'The European War'. Use the commons for English. ] (]) 20:12, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
	There were serious concerns about armed conflict but nothing on a "Greater Paraguay" master plan. The whole concept is ridiculuos, there simply was no manpower for ocupation, few roads and most transport was fluvial. When Lopez attacked the brazilians it was at the north of the country not at the east. There was no way to occupy and resupply troops in a such circunnstances. Also there would be no need to pass through argentinian territory if Lopez wanted to conquer the zones on the east.

			:Clearly it is not. There is nothing like a consensus. This was gone into thoroughly. Still, since it wouldn't do any harm to have the principles set down, which I shall do in a day or two.] 20:38, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
	There is simply no reliable reference to this "Greater Paraguay" thingy. And there is no reasonable way to theorize on such a plan. Lopez was no good militarily but wasn't an complete idiot either.
			:Based on the move log, this has been contested multiple times. If you wish to gain a consensus, please see ] and start a Requested move discussion. ] (]) 20:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

			==Wiki Education assignment: Modern Latin America==
	I could not find a 5th edition, so I can't say the quotations from book are wrong. The 6th edition either remove them or they were never there. Also the author presented this in a paper with little more evidence and in a non neutral poit of view, trying to promote his paper.
			{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment \| course = Misplaced Pages:Wiki_Ed/Salisbury_University/Modern_Latin_America_(Fall_2024) \| assignments = ] \| start_date = 2024-08-26 \| end_date = 2024-12-18 }}

			<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by ] (]) 00:09, 14 September 2024 (UTC)</span>
	I'll wait some weeks and then I'll remove the paragraph and refence to the "Greater Paraguay" issue. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 11:13, 3 November 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

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Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2024 - Paraguayan army strength

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The Paraguayan army strength is wrong. The 300,000 mentioned in the article should be the total Paraguayan death toll. The mentioned source supports my claim and probably got misread.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180412081700/http://remilitari.com/guias/victimario5.htm JakobR32 (talk) 17:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 11:39, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Everyone in the talk section agrees that War of the Triple Alliance is the common english name

And there's evidence the prior move was brigaded by other languages. Paraguayan War is the COMMON in Brazil, not in English which goes with the Argentinian and Uraguayan name.

War's having different names in regions is pretty common. At the time it happened Britain and Belgium called WW1 'The Great War', France 'The World War', and US 'The European War'. Use the commons for English. TheBrodsterBoy (talk) 20:12, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Clearly it is not. There is nothing like a consensus. This was gone into thoroughly. Still, since it wouldn't do any harm to have the principles set down, which I shall do in a day or two.Ttocserp 20:38, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Based on the move log, this has been contested multiple times. If you wish to gain a consensus, please see WP:RSPM and start a Requested move discussion. – robertsky (talk) 20:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Modern Latin America

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2024 and 18 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): SlipperyWhenWet141 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by ND746392 (talk) 00:09, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

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