| Revision as of 15:41, 17 February 2012 editSphilbrick (talk | contribs)Administrators178,668 edits →Request and "sandbox" by ASCIIn2Bme and further comments: Did this ever amount to anything?← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 00:12, 19 November 2024 edit undoMediaWiki message delivery (talk | contribs)Bots3,138,459 edits →ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message: new sectionTag: MassMessage delivery | ||
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| Welcome to my (rather minimalist) user and user talk page: please leave comments, questions, complaints, or just general chat below. Please provide '''direct links to issues you raise'''. I am |
Welcome to my (rather minimalist) user and user talk page: please leave comments, questions, complaints, or just general chat below. Please provide '''direct links to issues you raise'''. I am contributing rather sporadically at present and can't promise to reply, but if I do I will reply here: if I take a while and it is important, I will ] on your talk page. | ||
| {{Archive box|box-width=300px|search=yes|auto=yes|style=background-color:#F9F9F9; border-color:#AAAAAA; float:left}} | {{Archive box|box-width=300px|search=yes|auto=yes|style=background-color:#F9F9F9; border-color:#AAAAAA; float:left}} | ||
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| == ] == | |||
| == ] == | |||
| Thanks for your comment ]. I'm from a much more recent generation of active content editors (I was rather young in 2007 :) ) and have an interest in wikihistory. Around the time of that archive, I was running ] that led to, so far as I can tell, the statistically largest decrease in the project's history, and reading a lot of archives of GAN-related talk pages from the 2007-2009ish era to try work out a historiography of the process. I coincidentally noticed that comment recently and was excited to notice you were still looking around. If you have a longer answer on that, I'd love to hear it, but the short answer is of great value as well -- I noticed the same tendency reading those late-2000s archive, and it's interesting to try trace the history there. (I was ''surprised'' to find out how contentious "GA icons on articles" were.) ]] 11:33, 21 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
| ], ], the Lord of Death.]] | |||
| Excellent. I hope you don't mind my gentle copyedit - feel free to rv of course. Coincidentally it's along the lines of something I was thinking about myself: basically that there are people who seem to know instinctively how to conduct themselves in a given situation, and others who don't. Inevitably rulesets are developed to enable those who don't to conduct themselves like those who do, but because such conduct is enforced from without rather than coming from within they end up following the letter of the ruleset and missing the spirit. Adherence to the rules becomes more important than adherence to the philosophy that pre-dated them, and the rules—which become ever more prescriptive to account for all situations—are then applied to those who never had a need for them in the first place. Thus does friction arise... ]<sup>]</sup> 18:40, 1 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| : Nice to meet you Vaticidalprophet: I'm impressed by the most recent GAN backlog drive, and that now ] articles are GAs. With your interest in wikihistory, you probably know more about GA project history than I can remember accurately. For example, you may already know about the ]. This is no longer active, but a list of articles it produced can be found at ]. | |||
| : I'm glad you approve, and appreciate the copyedit. This is a quite subtle matter, and your comment here articulates the issue much more clearly than it was in my own mind: I began the Hosea section partly to be self-critical, but what you have explained is why such different approaches are ''necessary'' – as well as the reasons they can lead to friction. The essay is only in my user space to let it mature: I encourage others to improve it. If it proves to be consonant and helpful, I would be happy to move it into project space. If it doesn't, I will probably delete it. You may also have better ideas for the title of the essay and the development of the main concept: I like the shortcut and the basic idea of the essay, but my knowledge of the prophets is rather limited, as is my supply of good jokes :) '']'' 23:22, 1 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| : The articles most closely concerning GA are ], ] and ]. | |||
| ::* You need a corollary: "No editor is ]". I have thought a lot, lot, lot about my time on Misplaced Pages. I have had many opportunities to put space between myself and my past edits. And I have come to one central conclusion. I dunno where or when I lost my way, but I do know how – I stopped seeing myself as an editor, and began seeing myself as a gatekeeper and guardian of the Wiki... If Angry Jesus is too sacrilegious, try ] or ] or ] or ] or ] or ], ] ] (]) 02:06, 3 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| : I can understand your surprise about how contentious GA icons were in 2008, as I felt this at the time. I think the problem in part was a polarization of positions (similar to what we see in US politics today) where one side (mostly GA reviewers) insisted that GA deserved the same recognition as FA, and another side (mostly FA reviewers) insisted that it had not earned such recognition. Moderate positions are boring, but there were moderate editors on both sides, who put forward the view that a GA icon should not be a big deal, but GA needed to improve its quality control. | |||
| ::*: Hi Ling - always good to see you here. You are unduly critical about your own past contributions, but I understand the issue you are raising about the "gatekeeper/guardian of the Wiki" mentality. I've been accused of that once myself! One essay cannot solve every problem, and, in my view, this goes beyond the Moses issue that the essay raises. But if others see a nice way to incorporate it, then give it a shot! '']'' 03:10, 3 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| : I suspect ], which checked all early GAs for quality, had a significant impact on the ultimate acceptance of a GA icon. However, you can also see around 2008 that many editors (such SandyGeorgia and myself) already saw that we were on the same team regarding article improvement, and GA and FA came to understand and respect each others' processes. | |||
| : I have not been active on Misplaced Pages for a while, but it seems to me that GA and FA are islands where editors care about article quality above ideology and social status, and hope that the collaboration and common interest between the projects remain good. | |||
| : I will be happy to say more about the history as I recall it, but perhaps you should write down the results of your researches somewhere, and ask for comments. '']'' 23:17, 21 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == |
== Howdy == | ||
| ] (]) 18:17, 4 February 2012 (UTC)]] You've been making so many thoughtful posts everywhere lately that I wanted to give you a small token of my appreciation. ] (]) 18:17, 4 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ] (]) 01:36, 5 February 2012 (UTC)]] Or perhaps you'd prefer to make mincemeat to go with your nuts? ] (]) 01:36, 5 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| : Thanks for that: it motivates me to go out and find such nutritious food! I was just replying when you added the mincemeat: it looks delicious. | |||
| : I certainly try to think (and read) before I post: it is a habit I strongly recommend to all editors. Most of all, I am glad when my comments are read and appreciated. Misplaced Pages faces many challenges, and editors need to work together to deal with them. | |||
| : Thanks in turn, SandyG, for all that you do '']'' 01:48, 5 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| Glad to see you're occasionally active. Hope you're doing well; would be good to see you around more. ] (] - ] - ]) 02:44, 22 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == MSU Interview == | |||
| : Nice to see a familiar name after so much time. '']'' 22:43, 22 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
| Dear Geometry guy, | |||
| == Good article reassessment for ] == | |||
| My name is Jonathan Obar ], I'm a professor in the College of Communication Arts and Sciences at Michigan State University and a Teaching Fellow with the Wikimedia Foundation's Education Program. This semester I've been running a little experiment at MSU, a class where we teach students about becoming Misplaced Pages administrators. Not a lot is known about your community, and our students (who are fascinated by wiki-culture by the way!) want to learn how you do what you do, and why you do it. A while back I proposed this idea (the class) to the community ], were it was met mainly with positive feedback. Anyhow, I'd like my students to speak with a few administrators to get a sense of admin experiences, training, motivations, likes, dislikes, etc. We were wondering if you'd be interested in speaking with one of our students. | |||
| ] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the ]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ] ] 01:10, 27 November 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message == | |||
| So a few things about the interviews: | |||
| * Interviews will last between 15 and 30 minutes. | |||
| * Interviews can be conducted over skype (preferred), IRC or email. (You choose the form of communication based upon your comfort level, time, etc.) | |||
| * All interviews will be completely anonymous, meaning that you (real name and/or pseudonym) will never be identified in any of our materials, unless you give the interviewer permission to do so. | |||
| * All interviews will be completely voluntary. You are under no obligation to say yes to an interview, and can say no and stop or leave the interview at any time. | |||
| * The entire interview process is being overseen by MSU's institutional review board (ethics review). This means that all questions have been approved by the university and all students have been trained how to conduct interviews ethically and properly. | |||
| <div class="ivmbox " style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #AAA; background-color: ivory; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center; "> | |||
| Bottom line is that we really need your help, and would really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. If interested, please send me an email at obar@msu.edu (to maintain anonymity) and I will add your name to my offline contact list. If you feel comfortable doing so, you can post your name ] instead. | |||
| <div class="ivmbox-image" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em; flex: 1 0 40px; max-width: 100px">]</div> | |||
| <div class="ivmbox-text"> | |||
| Hello! Voting in the ''']''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2023|end}}-1 day}}. All ''']''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. | |||
| The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. | |||
| If you have questions or concerns at any time, feel free to email me at obar@msu.edu. I will be more than happy to speak with you. | |||
| If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review ] and submit your choices on the ''']'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>] (]) 00:26, 28 November 2023 (UTC)</small> | |||
| Thanks in advance for your help. We have a lot to learn from you. | |||
| </div> | |||
| Sincerely, | |||
| </div> | |||
| <!-- Message sent by User:Cyberpower678@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2023/Coordination/MM/02&oldid=1187132049 --> | |||
| == December music == | |||
| Jonathan Obar --] (]) 19:31, 9 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| {{User QAIbox | |||
| | title = ] | |||
| | image = Ehrenbach, plum tree with frost.jpg | |||
| | image_upright = 0.8 | |||
| | bold = ] · ] | |||
| }} | |||
| Nice to see your name on my watchlist! - I returned to DYK because (almost) nobody else handled the topics, and survive the discussions which also have become shorter. - ] is about ], on her centenary. - ] died OTD. -- ] (]) 18:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
| My ] is about ], - it's an honour to have known him. --] (]) 15:00, 13 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
| : Dear Jonathan. Thanks for stopping by, but I regret that I must decline your invitation. In any case, I am a somewhat atypical admin, in that I hardly ever use the admin tools, and what little administration I do is mostly technical. I wish you success with your project. '']'' 13:49, 10 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| : Nice to see you here also, Gerda. I admire your energy in highlighting daily stories, music and places. '']'' 15:52, 16 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
| :: Thank you ;) - today, I have ], of the works of a musician born 300 years ago. Don't miss the pictured doggie! --] (]) 09:08, 22 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == Good article reassessment for ] == | |||
| == hey == | |||
| ] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the ]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ] (]) 02:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC) | |||
| == 2024 == | |||
| I'll drop by here tomorrow and chat a bit. I saw your reply, and I'm not ignoring anything .. just have some real life stuff to deal with tonight. all my best .. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 22:37, 11 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| <div style="margin: auto; max-width: 32em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba( 192, 192, 192, 0.75 ); border-radius: 1em; border: 1px solid #a7d7f9; margin-bottom: 1em; padding: 0.5em 1em 1em; color: black;" class="ui-helper-clearfix"> | |||
| {{User QAIbox | |||
| | image = Abel Fest Köthen.jpg | |||
| | image_upright = 0.9 | |||
| }} | |||
| <center> | |||
| <br /><br />] | |||
| ] | |||
| : No worries - I couldn't imagine you deliberately ignoring something. (Alas, I frequently ignore things through carelessness or lack of time, but welcome being pinged when I do.) I look forward to chatting with you whenever you would like to do so, on this topic or any other. '']'' 22:46, 11 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| <br /><br /> | |||
| </center></div> | |||
| Same location pictured as 2019. -- ] (]) 21:01, 2 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
| On the Main page: ] who ] --] (]) 20:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
| ::Hey .. first, I know you have a lot more pull around this site than I do, and I admire all the great stuff you do. Pretty much a lot of things I was going to say were posted by Risker below. The thing that jumped out at me was the idea that BarkingMoon was not a new user. From everything I've seen or been told either on or off wiki makes me think that he actually ''was'' a new editor. Now, did Rlevse/Pumpkinsky have some influence on him .. I'd say that's pretty obvious that he did. My thought is that if someone encouraged a friend/fellow student/co-worker/friend of the family to edit Misplaced Pages ... cool .. glad to have more people here. I think the way the ''project'' treats new users is disgraceful. But, I think that the individual people here are good people. I'm not really familiar with either JV or Hersfold, so I can't really comment on that. I know that by nature everyone wants to know what the hell is going on here. I'm also painfully aware that there's a very fine line between "transparency" and "privacy". I'm not really sure what more I can say here. I have no problem with trying to respond to any questions you or anyone else might have - but I think almost anything and everything has been pretty much covered at this point. It's obvious that there's no consensus to just ban and shun PS/R ... so at this point, I'd say it's pretty much up to him. If he decides he wants to edit here .. then I will most certainly encourage him to do so. I look at the content he added, and it was damn good stuff. Perfect? nope, all our articles can be improved. Anyway .. I admire your work here, and feel free to ping me anytime. cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 17:21, 12 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| {{User QAIbox | |||
| :::I agree with your general concerns about new users. It is problem, although I don't know how extensive/systemic it is: we do tend to hear only about the cases where new users have been treated badly. I certainly wasn't, but that was 5 years ago. | |||
| | image = Hazel, Ehrenbach.jpg | |||
| :::Concerning BarkingMoon, you don't have to take my word for it that he was not a typical new user: read Hersfold's and Steven Zhang's comments at ], or check the earliest edits on the account for yourself: less than 3 hours after creating the account, he on a case of prior interest to RLevse. | |||
| | image_upright = 0.8 | |||
| :::Of course, that doesn't disprove your theory, and there is some evidence for it: BarkingMoon's refers to "''cajoling by my friend''" to create an account, and are suggestive. It is a theory I've considered, find plausible, and would not dismiss. But there are caveats: if this was a new user (rather than an experienced user faking it) then there is some atypical editing. RLevse, frustrated about not being able to edit, may have cajoled a friend into creating an account, but the evidence suggests he did more than just mentor: either he had access to the account or had his friend make some edits on his behalf. '']'' 19:25, 12 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| | bold = ] · ] · ] | |||
| ::::I remain interested in your view and/or response, Ched. '']'' 00:19, 13 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| }} | |||
| Today ], with related music and new vacation pics --] (]) 23:04, 30 January 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == Good article reassessment for ] == | |||
| == I'm at a loss == | |||
| ] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the ]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. <span style="border:#000000;border:2px solid #000000;padding:2px">'''λ''' ]]</span> 05:51, 2 February 2024 (UTC) | |||
| == ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message == | |||
| Really, I am. What exactly do you want over at ]? Everyone is thrashing over and over again with the same information; there's nothing else there than what is there. I can usually understand you very well, so it has to be me completely missing what you're driving at. <p>On the other hand, this situation has tied up literally thousands of hours of volunteer time: is it worth many more? ] (]) 23:28, 11 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| <div class="ivmbox " style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; background-color: #fdf2d5; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center; "> | |||
| : I sympathise with your frustration. There are other editors (e.g., Hersfold and John Vandenberg) who should be commenting on this, but it has apparently been left to you. I'm glad you think you usually understand me well, but if you do, you will know that my prime interest is in Improving the Encyclopedia, and supporting a climate in which that can happen. In particular, I am as interested as you in moving on from this, and avoiding "thrashing again and over again with the same information". I have no control over other editors doing so, but have been trying to form their concerns into a coherent whole, so that some mutual understanding can be reached. | |||
| <div class="ivmbox-image noresize" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;">]</div> | |||
| : If it is worth a little more of your time to deal with this issue, I am willing to commit some of mine. If so, lets discuss it. '']'' 23:50, 11 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| <div class="ivmbox-text"> | |||
| ::Well, I'm just concerned that you (or anyone else) thinks either of them have any more information than I do, because they don't. I'm going to be focusing this evening on completing the proposed decision for a case that a different (but overlapping!) group of editors feel should have been Arbcom's priority over the last week or two; however, I might be able to pop back in tomorrow, or sneak a peek later tonight. ] (]) 23:58, 11 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| Hello! Voting in the ''']''' is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on {{#time:l, j F Y|{{Arbitration Committee candidate/data|2024|end}}-1 day}}. All ''']''' are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. | |||
| :::Your concern was an example of an issue that needed to be addressed, and you have addressed it. It also suggests to me a way of dealing with the issue in general. '']'' 00:08, 12 February 2012 (UTC) PS. Good luck with the PD work: that's a tough case! | |||
| The ] is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the ]. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose ], ], editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The ] describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. | |||
| ===Request and "sandbox" by ] and further comments=== | |||
| If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review ] and submit your choices on the ''']'''. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{tlx|NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. <small>] (]) 00:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</small> | |||
| {{collapse top|reason=Invitation declined by Risker }} | |||
| If I may barge in here: I think more clue from CheckUsers in the future would not be bad. I have a geek friend on another continent with 15 computers in his basement. Asking him to set up a private proxy for me is a triviality. It would make me appear using a residential line on a different continent. I can arrange for demo if you want, but only on the condition that the resulting checkuser data and proxy tests are made public for everyone to see how that does (or doesn't) work. ] (]) 09:38, 15 February 2012 | |||
| {{collapse bottom}} | |||
| </div> | |||
| Thanks to Will getting the ball rolling, there is now growing evidence that Rlevse may have been using IP addresses outside of his own town at FA<s>C</s>R | |||
| </div> | |||
| . It's possible he may just have been traveling though. Besides harping on Will's motives, ] uses edit summaries. And so does (ps for extending comment, except in all caps this time. I covered this one in my main AN evidence.) The 216 IPs geolocate to California. The 206 one is in Florida. Both sets use extremely similar edit summaries, address the same "content" concern, and use the appellation "Mr. Beback": | |||
| <!-- Message sent by User:Cyberpower678@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2024/Coordination/MM/02&oldid=1258243447 --> | |||
| . ] editing in the same article, with the same charges against Will. More edit summary matches: | |||
| So, this is someone who can beam back and forth from Florida to California back to Florida within a day. Some days later, edits from Virginia ! The 206 and 207 IPs appear to be web hosting sites. Another post was made from a ] in Pennsylvania | |||
| . Others, like this 174 was blocked as open proxy. I suspect he thought that using his PumpkinSky account on scouting articles would have made it too obvious who it belonged to. As it's now typical in this Rlevse affair, we're not hearing the whole truth. Again. It's clear that Rlevse was far better at changing his IP than his writing style. (Apologies to Geometry guy for using his talk page as a sandbox, but I think he was sleeping while I did it.) ] (]) 11:31, 15 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| : ASCII asked me to look at this because I'm a (former) FA delegate (ASCII, I have resigned). " ... there is now growing evidence that Rlevse may have been using IP addresses outside of his own town '''at FAC''' . " Those are not at ]; they are at ] (I see the arbs in the civility case refer to FAC as Featured article reviews-- I wish they'd get the terminology correct, as those are two different places). At any rate, if an IP posted at FAC, I waited for futher feedback or some indication of the legitimacy of the comments, and at FAR, those edits made no difference to the outcome. So, the IP didn't affect process-- whether it's more Rlevse socking is another issue. ] (]) 13:51, 15 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :: This is becoming ridiculous. How much of this has been hushed up by his enablers? - ] ] 14:23, 15 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::: In all honesty, few folks have paid attention to FAR lately. It's been in decline for several years. ] (]) 14:38, 15 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :: <small>I'm sorry about the FAC/FAR confusion. Fixed now. ] (]) 14:32, 15 February 2012 (UTC)</small> | |||
| ::::I have been a little bit disappointed by a shortfall in care/carefulness on your behalf recently, ASCIIn2Bme. You seem to be in a bit of a rush for some reason, whereas when discussing serious conduct issues, striving for accuracy is important. I noticed it at the Civility PD talk page as well as in your actions here (which led to the above reprimand from Risker on her talk page). I don't want to overstate this, as I try to be a fairly relaxed and tolerant guy, especially with regard to my userspace. However, you should not presume another editor is asleep and/or that it is therefore okay to use their talk page as a sandbox. As it happens, I wasn't logged in while you were posting, but I might have been. | |||
| ::::Anyway, enough said and apologies accepted: I will now look at the substance of the new concerns/allegations you and Will have raised. '']'' 20:56, 15 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::::: Thanks putting up with me. I realize I need to present the above better. The reason for my prolonged impromptu was that when I first posted here about that issue, I was expecting that the little evidence mentioned on PumpkinSky's talk page was nothing more than an editor logged out. But then it seemed to morph into a real can of worms. I don't know how stable IP geolocation data is over time. Given the IPs edits are all from last summer, it's perhaps still relevant enough. I got it from ] (]) 21:26, 15 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :::::: Did this ever amount to anything?--]] 15:41, 17 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == Mkat retiring == | |||
| {{collapse top|Thanks for the comments folks. Time to move on. '']'' 18:43, 12 February 2012 (UTC)}} | |||
| My read of the situation is that Mongo, Toa, and AQFK jumping on Mkat caused other editors nursing old grudges against Mkat to seize the moment. Essentially, editors who already had issues with Mkat saw in this situation an opportunity to settle a score. That aside, I think it is better if you avoid engaging MONGO further on this issue. He is having the most trouble letting this go and that has been leading him to make some rather irresponsible comments (see the RFAR talk page). If people stop bringing the issue up it may allow him to cool down so he doesn't get himself boomeranged.--] (]) 06:39, 12 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :Why shouldn't he find himself boomeranged? If anyone deserves it surely he does. ] ] 06:43, 12 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::Aw hell. Mal, please stay out of this. Your tense relationship with MONGO, to put it mildly, is only going to escalate the situation.--] (]) 06:52, 12 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :::Do not presume to offer advice to me. ] ] 07:01, 12 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Or me: since I didn't engage MONGO on this issue, how can I avoid engaging him further? Thanks for sharing your analysis of the situation, however. I can respond that I had no plans to comment more than I did on this regrettable development. '']'' 13:01, 12 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| Malleus...that doesn't make sense...Tom Harrison was crucified by three admins that overlooked his extensive contributions history, yet you expect everyone else to allow you to get a free ride? You're here now still insulting me and assuming I deserve some sanction for questioning the poor judgement of three admins yet you have been questioning all admins for anytime they try to sanction you for some of your egregious behavior. Be it known now that there is a reason I didn't show up at that arbcom case involving you...'''I made a promise to someone I wouldn't''', and I wasn't solicited to avoid the case but made the promise to do so on my own....even though I had listed off wiki over a hundred instances not only demonstrating your silly poor choice of words, but definitive evidence of bigotry, the kind of which would have ended your contributions here for a long time and it's all there in your edits, not some made up stuff. There is much more of a problem with your contributions than the "C" word and it has brought many a chuckle from me to see so many wikilawyering about how that word and similar isn't a "bad" word in some regions, or to see so many argue about how others are also insulting...but they aren't on trial there, you are, yet you've offered nothing but promises to continue to act as you have. I also kept 5 other editors from coming there to ask for an end to your editing...all of them administrators in good standing, but I asked them to also avoid the case, which they did. I know you have no idea of the forces that were aligned against you, so I can't say here that you are ungrateful, but now that you know, should you survive what the arbcom committee might do anyway, I would hope that you might realize that as I mentioned before, if I had wanted to seek retribution and be petty as you have repeatedly and erroneously stated, I could have filed an arbitration case with your name flashing on top of it anytime I wanted. My evidence was also clear as to the actions of administrator John...and it is likely what I had would have led to a desysopping...the part about him unblocking you was just a small fragment of the case against him...and even though he has come after me in every Rfc and at every noticeboard he could, and the temptation to finally get "revenge" was oh so strong, I didn't do so...even though it was a golden opportunity. As far as the admin who resigned...well, if there was no mistake on their part, then why resign? As you, Malleus might put it...we can't have administrators going around sanctioning people just to feel mighty...on this issue surely we should be in agreement.--] 17:41, 12 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :Not to put too fine a point on it, you're full of shit MONGO. ] ] 17:55, 12 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::Well, that is precisely what I expected to read from you. That is truly sad...good luck.--] 17:59, 12 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| {{collapse bottom}} | |||
| == I wanted to respond to you but I can't == | |||
| You raised the level of discourse so high, it's scraping the ceiling, and I can't raise it. | |||
| In some seriousness, Pesky made an interesting observation, and i hope they tweak the wording. | |||
| Otherwise, we'll have the unintended consequence that we should start conversation in the gutter, so we have a little room for improvement. --]] 22:51, 15 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| : Yes, I think it should be an easy fix. I hope my contribution brought a few smiles, as bit of light-heartedness which should not be taken at anyone's expense. Writing clear resolutions is not easy, and you may (or more likely may not!) be interested to know that in mathematics, the concept of "improving the level of discourse" would often be interpreted to mean "maintaining or improving the level of discourse". So if Arbitrators wanted even mathematicians to give up and quit the project, they would have to say "''strictly'' improving the level of discourse" to rule out the defence that "zero improvement" is still improvement. '']'' 23:20, 15 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| : PS. But wouldn't it be a cool way to close an argument, to out-polite your adversary, so that they are unable to reply? :) | |||
| ::It's a technique I've tried on occasion :) Mathematics is a weird discipline; where else would it be considered satisfactory to end an investigation by establishing nothing more than that a solution exists? ]<sup>]</sup> 10:05, 16 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::: Your closing point reminds me of what became an inside joke at a conference last week, where we were prioritizing improvements to a system, and in response to a query about a potentially neglected area, the project leader said there would be some percentage improvement in that area. Another participant mentioned a Simpsons episode, where a manufacturer claimed a product contained some percentage of recyclables. When Lisa learned it contained no recyclables, the manufacturer retorted, "zero per cent IS a percentage." We've been using every opportunity since to promise some percentage improvement in results.--]] 13:42, 16 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :::: Thanks for the comments, but you might have taken a different view on what "improving the level of discourse" should mean. Surely "improvement" should be linked to improving the encyclopedia, not merely civility? I made another post to the thread, taking such a view. I may have further comments on this, which I believe could be illuminating in multiple ways. '']'' 23:32, 16 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| :::::Geometry guy, | |||
| :::::Do you agree the reasoning on the RfA--talk-page ban proposal is weak? | |||
| :::::Perhaps others have counted the votes, and decided not to worry about the decision.... (I had wished that some of the ArbCommers would have reconsidered, and realized that they were making a mistake, with at least the argument.) | |||
| :::::Sincerely, <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 00:20, 17 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::::::Yes, there are several weaknesses in the argument, but Arbcom is an elected body, not a logical machine. I don't find their conclusion here so unreasonable that I want to invest time arguing against it. You are welcome to press your case, but if you are unhappy with the result, vote for change in the next Arbcom elections. '']'' 00:43, 17 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == What do we do when there is no consensus to unblock a controversial block? == | |||
| Newyorkbrad has asked this a few times, but discussions I have read remind me of the treatment of the "]" in ], a humorous 1930s take on (English/British) history and the way it was taught: in this parody, the ] "doggedly maintained" that the Irish people had the choice to "eat the potatoes" or "not to", whereas the ] attempted to supply bread. | |||
| When a block is contested, a debate "to endorse the block" or "not to" is likely to be polarizing. I have attempted to in which contested blocks might be handled (and hence used!) more wisely. '']'' 00:02, 17 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| : I should add that while I would like to draw attention to the idea, I don't want to push it. I offer it in the spirit of GFDL: read freely, reuse, modify, and distribute. If some version of it becomes useful in the future, that would be a great outcome. '']'' 01:04, 17 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| == re .. == | |||
| , and its relevance. I dropped by to mention it myself, and ask for some input - I shouldn't have underestimated you. :) ... then again - I'm finding it more and more difficult to ''over''estimate you each day. By the way .. a wiki-friend put some time into ] which I really enjoy(ed) reading. Not sure it's up your preferred reading venues, but thought it may be. cheers. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 00:56, 17 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| : Thanks for both comments. I like astronomy articles (they are at the nice borderline between my professional expertise and leisure interests), so I will take a look. '']'' 01:09, 17 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| : PS. NYB may be tempted to watch and see what happens: there are already signs of editors simply restating their contrary positions on the conundrum. To some extent that is reasonable, as it is reasonable for NYB and others to observe, but I also hope NYB and other similar editors see scope for engagement, as I do believe there is potential for compromise between the two positions along the lines I have suggested. '']'' 01:25, 17 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
| ::I agree. I can even understand (often) the ''why'' some folks hold the views that they do. But like you, I'd rather find some compromise that all parties may find an acceptable way forward. — <small><span style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>]</b> : ]</span></small> 01:50, 17 February 2012 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 00:12, 19 November 2024
Welcome to my (rather minimalist) user and user talk page: please leave comments, questions, complaints, or just general chat below. Please provide direct links to issues you raise. I am contributing rather sporadically at present and can't promise to reply, but if I do I will reply here: if I take a while and it is important, I will drop a note on your talk page.
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Misplaced Pages talk:Good article nominations/Archive 30
Thanks for your comment here. I'm from a much more recent generation of active content editors (I was rather young in 2007 :) ) and have an interest in wikihistory. Around the time of that archive, I was running a GAN backlog drive that led to, so far as I can tell, the statistically largest decrease in the project's history, and reading a lot of archives of GAN-related talk pages from the 2007-2009ish era to try work out a historiography of the process. I coincidentally noticed that comment recently and was excited to notice you were still looking around. If you have a longer answer on that, I'd love to hear it, but the short answer is of great value as well -- I noticed the same tendency reading those late-2000s archive, and it's interesting to try trace the history there. (I was surprised to find out how contentious "GA icons on articles" were.) Vaticidalprophet 11:33, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
- Nice to meet you Vaticidalprophet: I'm impressed by the most recent GAN backlog drive, and that now 1 in 174 articles are GAs. With your interest in wikihistory, you probably know more about GA project history than I can remember accurately. For example, you may already know about the Featured Content Dispatch Workshop. This is no longer active, but a list of articles it produced can be found at Template:FCDW.
- The articles most closely concerning GA are Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2008-05-19/Dispatches, Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2010-03-15/Dispatches and Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2010-11-15/Dispatches.
- I can understand your surprise about how contentious GA icons were in 2008, as I felt this at the time. I think the problem in part was a polarization of positions (similar to what we see in US politics today) where one side (mostly GA reviewers) insisted that GA deserved the same recognition as FA, and another side (mostly FA reviewers) insisted that it had not earned such recognition. Moderate positions are boring, but there were moderate editors on both sides, who put forward the view that a GA icon should not be a big deal, but GA needed to improve its quality control.
- I suspect GA Sweeps, which checked all early GAs for quality, had a significant impact on the ultimate acceptance of a GA icon. However, you can also see around 2008 that many editors (such SandyGeorgia and myself) already saw that we were on the same team regarding article improvement, and GA and FA came to understand and respect each others' processes.
- I have not been active on Misplaced Pages for a while, but it seems to me that GA and FA are islands where editors care about article quality above ideology and social status, and hope that the collaboration and common interest between the projects remain good.
- I will be happy to say more about the history as I recall it, but perhaps you should write down the results of your researches somewhere, and ask for comments. Geometry guy 23:17, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
Howdy
Glad to see you're occasionally active. Hope you're doing well; would be good to see you around more. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:44, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
- Nice to see a familiar name after so much time. Geometry guy 22:43, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
Good article reassessment for University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Spinixster (chat!) 01:10, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
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December music
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Nice to see your name on my watchlist! - I returned to DYK because (almost) nobody else handled the topics, and survive the discussions which also have become shorter. - Today's story is about Maria Callas, on her centenary. - Aaron Copland died OTD. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
My story today is about Michael Robinson, - it's an honour to have known him. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:00, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Nice to see you here also, Gerda. I admire your energy in highlighting daily stories, music and places. Geometry guy 15:52, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you ;) - today, I have a special story to tell, of the works of a musician born 300 years ago. Don't miss the pictured doggie! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:08, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Good article reassessment for Norfolk, Virginia
Norfolk, Virginia has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 02:54, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
2024
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Same location pictured as 2019. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:01, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
On the Main page: the person who made the pictured festival possible --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:05, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
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| story · music · places |
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Today a friend's birthday, with related music and new vacation pics --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:04, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
Good article reassessment for Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 2 has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. λ NegativeMP1 05:51, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
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