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Revision as of 10:55, 2 April 2012 editDavidWBrooks (talk | contribs)Administrators41,035 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit Latest revision as of 01:49, 9 March 2024 edit undoCewbot (talk | contribs)Bots7,636,122 editsm Maintain {{WPBS}}: 3 WikiProject templates. Remove 1 deprecated parameter: field.Tag: Talk banner shell conversion 
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{{WikiProject Biography
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{{Maths rating|field=mathematicians|priority=low|class=start|listas=Rainwater, John}}
⚫ {{WikiProject United States|class=Start|importance=|WA=yes|WA-importance=|Seattle=yes|Seattle-importance=low|state=collapsed|listas=Rainwater, John}}
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{{dyktalk|1 April|2012|entry=... that a University of Washington ''']''' created as a student prank became the author of several well-received papers in research journals?}} {{dyktalk|1 April|2012|entry=... that a University of Washington ''']''' created as a student prank became the author of several well-received papers in research journals?}}
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==John Rainwater is immortal== ==John Rainwater is immortal==
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Where does John Rainwater go from here? It would be a shame if he were to die. It is to be hoped that someone will be able to help John Rainwater carry on, so that in the future people won't ask "Who killed J.R.?" <!-- The previous paragraph gives some guidance to potential Rainwater authors. Clearly, in the present employment climate, no junior faculty member would be willing to emulate John Isbell and publish a really good paper under a pseudonym. The other successful J.R. papers were those which simply had too many authors, all of whom were securely tenured faculty, so keep him in mind if you find yourself in such a situation. It would be nice to keep the tradition going. --> Where does John Rainwater go from here? It would be a shame if he were to die. It is to be hoped that someone will be able to help John Rainwater carry on, so that in the future people won't ask "Who killed J.R.?" <!-- The previous paragraph gives some guidance to potential Rainwater authors. Clearly, in the present employment climate, no junior faculty member would be willing to emulate John Isbell and publish a really good paper under a pseudonym. The other successful J.R. papers were those which simply had too many authors, all of whom were securely tenured faculty, so keep him in mind if you find yourself in such a situation. It would be nice to keep the tradition going. -->
</blockquote> </blockquote>
Quoting from Phelps (2002) (<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small>&nbsp;(]) 17:33, 2 April 2011 (UTC)). 17:03, 29 June 2011 (UTC) Quoting from Phelps (2002) (<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small>&nbsp;(]) 17:33, 2 April 2011 (UTC)). 17:03, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
===Coda=== ===Coda===
This very serious comment responds to the change in assessment status from "living=yes" to "living=no"! <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small>&nbsp;(]) 14:35, 3 April 2011 (UTC) This very serious comment responds to the change in assessment status from "living=yes" to "living=no"! <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small>&nbsp;(]) 14:35, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
:We don't really have a code to indicate a pseudonym of living or non-living people. Perhaps a note to ] would help. — ] ] 15:32, 3 April 2011 (UTC) :We don't really have a code to indicate a pseudonym of living or non-living people. Perhaps a note to ] would help. — ] ] 15:32, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
::] <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small>&nbsp;(]) 15:54, 3 April 2011 (UTC) 17:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC) ::] <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small>&nbsp;(]) 15:54, 3 April 2011 (UTC) 17:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC)


== Clarification == == Clarification ==
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::Removing an information box is less drastic than an auto-lobotomy, but does suffice to remove the irritation about confusion. ::Removing an information box is less drastic than an auto-lobotomy, but does suffice to remove the irritation about confusion.
::Perhaps you can contact Math Reviews and ask them to remove the "confusing" entry about John Rainwater? ::Perhaps you can contact Math Reviews and ask them to remove the "confusing" entry about John Rainwater?
::<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 10:05, 2 April 2012 (UTC) ::<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 10:05, 2 April 2012 (UTC)


:::Math Reviews and wikipedia are different publications (using the term loosely) and have different standards. What is done by one doesn't necessarily weigh on what is done by the other. A similar debate, by the way happened at ], another article about a fictitious person who has done real work - albeit humerous rather than serious. IT once had an infobox and, after much discussion, no longer does. :::Math Reviews and wikipedia are different publications (using the term loosely) and have different standards. What is done by one doesn't necessarily weigh on what is done by the other. A similar debate, by the way happened at ], another article about a fictitious person who has done real work - albeit humerous rather than serious. IT once had an infobox and, after much discussion, no longer does.
:::Do you think ] should have an infobox with a "birth date" and the like? (I see that ] does have one, with the same silly, IMHO, "born" and "nationality" listings.) - ] (]) 10:55, 2 April 2012 (UTC) :::Do you think ] should have an infobox with a "birth date" and the like? (I see that ] does have one, with the same silly, IMHO, "born" and "nationality" listings.) - ] (]) 10:55, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
::::Phelps discusses his moment of creation, and life. I don't want to debate your OR or discuss whether you were confused by an infobox. Tough. Life is confusing if you have a brain.
::::Since you have so much to add to Misplaced Pages here, I suggest you render similarly sage advice as to whether "Yes album covers" should be recategorized as "Yes (band) album covers".
::::<small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 16:43, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
:::::Well, that was helpful. (I'm also indenting your comment an extra space, so it's not lined up with mine and doesn't confuse - sorry, that word again - anybody.) - ] (]) 17:13, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
::::::Sorry David, I'm irritated that the ] DYK was not on the April Fools page. This article and PO's were always paired, and this has meant that a year's efforts were wasted on PO, mostly because of inane busybody objections by persons who don't know what they are talking about, especially when they think they do. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 20:44, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Sorry, you lost me. DYK? PO? I seem to be acronym-deficient. - ] (]) 01:25, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

== Bourbaki et al ==
To serve the casual reader who stumbles across this article, I would like to add in the introduction a short reference to Bourbaki and the fact that this weird process (fake person does real mathematics) is not unique, because I think that is surprising to non-mathematicians. Any objections or thoughts? - ] (]) 15:46, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
:I like the idea, if it's no more than a short mention. The article's already in ], which demonstrates the phenomenon. ] (]) 16:16, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
::Bourbaki has been a collective pseudonym of the leading French-writing mathematicians in the world, where John Rainwater has been notable but much less important. Bourbaki was mentioned briefly by Phelps, as noted in the article. Thus, a short note of N.B. in the lede is plausible. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">].]</span></small> 16:32, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 01:49, 9 March 2024

A fact from John Rainwater appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on 1 April 2012 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
  • Did you know... that a University of Washington fake mathematician created as a student prank became the author of several well-received papers in research journals?
A record of the entry may be seen at Misplaced Pages:Recent additions/2012/April.
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John Rainwater is immortal

Rumors of Rainwater's demise are unfounded:

Where does John Rainwater go from here? It would be a shame if he were to die. It is to be hoped that someone will be able to help John Rainwater carry on, so that in the future people won't ask "Who killed J.R.?"

Quoting from Phelps (2002) ( Kiefer.Wolfowitz  (Discussion) 17:33, 2 April 2011 (UTC)). 17:03, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Coda

This very serious comment responds to the change in assessment status from "living=yes" to "living=no"!  Kiefer.Wolfowitz  (Discussion) 14:35, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

We don't really have a code to indicate a pseudonym of living or non-living people. Perhaps a note to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Biography would help. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 15:32, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
Done!  Kiefer.Wolfowitz  (Discussion) 15:54, 3 April 2011 (UTC) 17:01, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Clarification

Currently the text is a bit confusing and it's hard to figure out whether he was fictional or not. The infobox and categories present him as a real prototype, yet the text suggests he is fictitious. Brandmeister 21:36, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

You're right. I have trimmed the infobox, removing birth date and nationality and residence, for that reason. I think the whole infobox should go, actually, unless it can be altered to show immediately that Rainwater is fictitious. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 00:31, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
You can learn by recognizing confusion, if you want to know the truth and can be honest about being confused.
Removing an information box is less drastic than an auto-lobotomy, but does suffice to remove the irritation about confusion.
Perhaps you can contact Math Reviews and ask them to remove the "confusing" entry about John Rainwater?
 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:05, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Math Reviews and wikipedia are different publications (using the term loosely) and have different standards. What is done by one doesn't necessarily weigh on what is done by the other. A similar debate, by the way happened at P.D.Q. Bach, another article about a fictitious person who has done real work - albeit humerous rather than serious. IT once had an infobox and, after much discussion, no longer does.
Do you think Nicholas Bourbaki should have an infobox with a "birth date" and the like? (I see that Peter Orno does have one, with the same silly, IMHO, "born" and "nationality" listings.) - DavidWBrooks (talk) 10:55, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Phelps discusses his moment of creation, and life. I don't want to debate your OR or discuss whether you were confused by an infobox. Tough. Life is confusing if you have a brain.
Since you have so much to add to Misplaced Pages here, I suggest you render similarly sage advice as to whether "Yes album covers" should be recategorized as "Yes (band) album covers".
 Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:43, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Well, that was helpful. (I'm also indenting your comment an extra space, so it's not lined up with mine and doesn't confuse - sorry, that word again - anybody.) - DavidWBrooks (talk) 17:13, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Sorry David, I'm irritated that the Peter Orno DYK was not on the April Fools page. This article and PO's were always paired, and this has meant that a year's efforts were wasted on PO, mostly because of inane busybody objections by persons who don't know what they are talking about, especially when they think they do.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:44, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, you lost me. DYK? PO? I seem to be acronym-deficient. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 01:25, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Bourbaki et al

To serve the casual reader who stumbles across this article, I would like to add in the introduction a short reference to Bourbaki and the fact that this weird process (fake person does real mathematics) is not unique, because I think that is surprising to non-mathematicians. Any objections or thoughts? - DavidWBrooks (talk) 15:46, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea, if it's no more than a short mention. The article's already in Category:Pseudonymous mathematicians, which demonstrates the phenomenon. Ntsimp (talk) 16:16, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Bourbaki has been a collective pseudonym of the leading French-writing mathematicians in the world, where John Rainwater has been notable but much less important. Bourbaki was mentioned briefly by Phelps, as noted in the article. Thus, a short note of N.B. in the lede is plausible.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:32, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
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